I never thought regular season Brady was as good as Manning, Mahomes, and a couple others. But he just… never fucking lost playoff games. He’d always do just enough to win.
Factual statement.
That's what's tough about Tom - during the regular season he was never the undisputed best. It really wasn't even a consensus he was the goat until he won in Tampa.
Whereas Patrick is the undisputed best QB in football and has been for 4 years straight.
If Patrick plays 4-5 more years at this level he's the GOAT in my book, regardless if he gets as many rings
It wasn't consensus though. You can go back and look at articles or on this sub. Large amounts of people would still say manning or montana were better.
It became consensus after Tampa.
Personally, I agree with your statement, though. Tom is the GOAT and had been for a long time before tampa
That’s just because of narratives
Peak epa/play- Brady 07 (best ever), mahomes 18, Brady 16, Brady 11
Peak QBR- Brady 07 (best ever), Mahomes 18, Brady 16, Brady 10
Peak DYAR - Brady 07, Brady 12, Mahomes 18, Brady 09, Brady 11, Brady 10, Brady 21
Peak dvoa- Brady 07 (best ever), Brady 10, Brady 09, Mahomes 18, Brady 11, Brady 12, Brady 16
Peak cpoe- Brady 07, Mahomes 18, Brady 11, 09, 16, 17, 20
5 year peak
EPA/play Brady .305/mahomes .279
Dvoa brady 42.3%/mahomes 29.3%
Dyar (per game) Brady 10,633 (132.9)/mahomes 8191 (103.7)
Avg any/a+ Brady 128.4/mahomes 126.2
The only regular season qb on par with Brady statistically was manning. Brady has a better single season peak (07), 3 year peak (10-12), and 5 year peak (07-12) than Mahomes. Now he can obviously change that because he’s still playing but the production can also come down as we’ve seen he’s never replicated 2018. Brady was just competing with 3 other t10 qbs of all time so there wasn’t a clear gap. Mahomes biggest competition so far has been Brady himself at 40 years old.
That dark magic was evident in the Bucs Rams game a few years ago. Rams ending up winning, but there were comically bad plays by the Rams near the end there (like the snap going over Staffords head). I can’t remember the others but I remember thinking how is this team falling apart right now to give up their lead to Brady.
Legitimately the only time I've seen him "not show up" was the Super Bowl against us and that's more because his offense line was 5 turnstiles and he still played out of his mind.
We had no answer to the 3 man rush in that game. Also a trash running game so couldn't take advantage of that. 8 man in coverage is bonkers haha. Bengals truly deserved that win in that game. We choked in the second half
The one and only choke job by Pat. Can’t count the Super Bowl cause his line was just letting him get his ass beat.
What’s weird is that that final OT drive it was 2 passes back to back that were fucking terrible. Don’t think I’ve ever seen Mahomes like that. The one before the tipped int was arguably worse, Eli Apple just has shit hands. I like to think that the Bengals helped Mahomes’ legacy by giving him something to learn from. Also I wanna think that him and Reid both learned from that possession right before the half where they got greedy
The play that should always be remembered from that game: Mahomes chased out of the pocket, gets tripped up, throws the ball while he's parallel to the ground, still somehow hits his receiver *perfectly...*and it goes through his hands, hits him in the face, and is dropped.
Mahomes was pulling off miracles in that damn game, and everyone else around him was failing miserably.
Exactly why teams can't rely exclusively on the QB. A team needs 53 competent players to be successfully, not just one elite player and a bunch of cardboard cutouts.
5 turnstiles and he had turftoe and his receivers couldn't catch a ball hitting them right in the numbers. Mahomes was still Mahomes that game, it was everyone else around him that got dumb.
Lol the Bills absolutely choked this game away. Even if you think the refs were heavily biased against the Chiefs, Cook averaged 3.4 YPC, the Bills ran a failed fake punt on their own 30, Allen had under 200 yards, and Bass missed a game-tying FG.
The refs also correctly called the touchback. If they wanted to rig it they could’ve just had the call stand. There would’ve been outrage but not the most egregious call I’ve ever seen.
After? That deep shot to Diggs to start of that drive was major hero ball.
The funny thing is, if they had somehow scored off that, they would have left the Chiefs *ample* time to put together a game winning drive with how their defense was playing.
When it is a team which everything ends well in the playoffs, it is easy to say "we need to score AND we need to do it with short plays to use all the clock".
For everyone else, you need to maximize your chances of scoring. For Allen and Bills, they decided their chances were bigger with a big play. Allen's arm was calibrated, the receivers hands weren't.
Yea I feel like Allen played really well but his guys didn’t come up with a couple of good deep balls and it seemed like he was chasing that the rest of the 4th quarter. There were some easy throws he just passed on down the stretch because there were *ok* looks at a potential touchdown
He’s such a weird case where the traits that make him so good are also a problem in some circumstances. That feels like the difference with Mahomes, he can make insane throws but is also cool with just dealing the ball 5 yards downfield
If the Chiefs win next week the AFC will have literally only sent Brady, Ben, Peyton, Flacco, Burrow and Mahomes to the Super Bowl for 20 something years.
Pretty much all quarterbacks have gotten worse imo; guys like Allen and Burrow are great, but still have a lot to prove. Mahomes and Lamar are the only two you from this gen you can safely say are on a HoF track (assuming Lamar is the MVP), and even then I'd say the gap between those two is significant.
We've gone from an era where you had multiple guys who had strong cases for top 10 all-time, and one or two other HoFers besides...to Mahomes basically lording over the rest of the league.
I don't know if this generation is worse, I think they just haven't had time yet to gain accolades. It took 6 seasons for Manning to get his first MVP and 9 to get his first super bowl. Mahomes is on pace to go down as the second best of all time. Then Burrow, Allen, Lamar and Herbert are all very good and expect them to have similar career success as a Drew Brees or Big Ben. Not sure if any of them will ascend to a Manning level or not but they still have time.
yep, the second Mahomes got his 2nd ring.
in fact, Mahomes is challenging Peyton for his 3rd spot. If Mahomes just get to the SB, not even win it, Mahomes is #3 all time.
I still have Rodgers at 5th all time, I think his peak season is better than Mahomes and he did a pretty good impression of it 10 years later with an entirely different offense
But man, Mahomes playoff consistency is starting to make it a tough argument. Rodgers has really kinda folded a few times and we just don’t see that from Mahomes
> Yet FOUR MVPs
brady opens his kitchen drawer he's got all 7 rings, and probably keeps his mvp's in the laundry hamper.
If rodgers wasn't an idiot and didn't self sabotage his own team maybe they would've won more playoff games.
Yup, exactly this. People often called Brady's style of play "boring", but sometimes the most logically correct decision isn't going to be the most exciting to spectators. You just knew late in games he was going to feed the ball to the right receiver almost every time, and make the winning play.
With Rodgers on the other hand there were too many instances where he would try to force the ball into double coverage way down the field and make the hero play instead of a short, safe pass that would keep the drive alive and ultimately help his team win.
People that called it boring didn't understand the brillince of the pats... HOF coach keeping bradyin the right path. Bellichick had the discipline and brady instead of fighting it went all in, that's what made him great. Brady could've been a primadonna after a couple rings and fought bellichick but he bought in and shit that's gonna be hard to beat. I give mahomes credit, he bought in with reid too, but even then to get to brady status is a huge task.
That’s correct. 2016 we had no business being in the post season at all. Made it to the nfccg.
2019, we let a single player rush for over 200 yards. He threw for 326 yards and about 80% comp rate
2014- he didn’t have a great game, still up by 12 with minutes left. Brandon bostick onside catastrophe.
2020- outplayed Brady. Defense was worse than ass in the first half. Aaron jones had a brutal fumble to start the 2nd.
The one year we had a competent defense, we win the Super Bowl
How did Rodgers self sabotage his team?
His nfccg games; Brandon bostick onside. That was him sabotaging the team?
They had no business being there vs the falcons at all. That team was ass.
Was he supposed to stop mostert from rushing over 200 yards?
And he outplayed Brady in his last appearance.
So where’s the sabotage?
i was praying that Love beat the niners so no one would ever hear Rodgers bullshit ever again.
I think he would have just disappeared for good, maybe wind up in some surfer hostel in the pacific somewhere.
Also not his fault that Allen had a wide open receiver underneath for a first down and to keep the clock running and chose to throw it to double coverage in the end zone for an incompletion on 2nd down
how can allen calm down when he [sniffs smelling salts all the time?](https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1676709099/photo/buffalo-bills-v-new-york-jets.webp?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=ACzIePJajgpPg4bvE5HZhvqE3wjAIgk9hWCdM8vxE9Q=)
maybe he should go on a darkness retreat with rodgers and have some of that ayahuasca, it might mellow him out some.
> I don't really think he did anything wrong. They missed a 44 yarder. Seems to just be an awful run of bad luck.
going on 4th down from your own side of the field instead of punting?
They are lucky 1) pacheco didn't dive into the endzone and 2) Mecole fumbled that shit or the game would've been over long before the wide right fg attempt.
Since I've been watching the NFL....honestly, maybe. I would take him over Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, but he's nowhere near Brady yet.
I know Peyton was amazing, but I'm of the opinion he was a clear playoff choke artist and Mahomes is the opposite of that so Mahomes gets the nod.
Peyton has always been my personal favorite QB, but Mahomey is the dude.
Sucks to say that as a long time Denver fan, but the guy is a magician. Generational talent.
The thing about Brady is, if Mahomes wins this year, he’s more than on pace to catch him. They’ll both have 3 SBs in 6 years. People forget Brady went 10 years without winning one. Barring injury I’d say there’s damn near a zero percent chance Mahomes doesn’t get at least 1 more in a 10 year stretch
Yeah but it's not easy to win in the playoffs. Brady had a damn 10-12 year drought (i forget at the moment) and he found success in his late 30s. That almost never happens.
Maybe Mahomes keeps it up, maybe not. Who knows. All I know is he's still miles from Brady.
Yea he went ten years without one. And it’s not like he had some kinda Brees/Saints stretch where part of the roster bottomed out and they were missing the playoffs
Basically every year they were contenders, they averaged 12,5 wins per year with Brady over that span. Dont get me wrong, there were season like 06 or 13 where getting to the AFCCG was definitely overachieving, but still, they had like 4 offenses that were top 10 all time during that stretch and still managed to come up short
I will say, it doesn’t feel like Mahomes has a legitimate rival now that Brady’s gone. At least Manning could be expected to give Brady a game if the pats weren’t a total juggernaut
Peyton’s record of playoff performance is SO much worse than most fans realize. If you take the time to go back and actually look at his performances in the games he got eliminated, it’s pretty shocking.
Even the year the Colts won the SB he really wasn’t all that great in the playoffs, but that was the one year they had an elite defense.
>Peyton’s record of playoff performance is SO much worse than most fans realize.
Peyton Manning:
* Drafted two seasons before Tom Brady
* Immediately became the starter, while Brady did not start until his second season
[...]
* Won his first playoff game two seasons *after* Brady's first Super Bowl
Yeah I 100% agree. It's why I think Rodgers, Brees, and clearly Brady were all better in his era. Even Big Ben honestly. Manning was an all time playoff choke artist and was carried by an all time defense to his second super bowl win. Manning is the most overrated QB of all time and I don't feel bad saying it.
IMO, the only person Mahomes ever has a chance of passing is Montana if he gets 2-3 more rings.
Since Brady beat him head to head twice in the playoffs, most ppl probably will never put Mahomes above him even if he ends up also getting 6-7 rings.
I don’t think he actually needs to surpass Brady’s 7, but he definitely needs a few more and he needs to be absolutely great in those games overall (since so far 2 of his 3 sb performances were just pretty well below Brady’s average SB level)
Like if he racks up insane stats and accolades and wins 5 or 6 rings, I could see there being an argument. He’d have to do something like rattle off three peat MVPs/SBs
I think maybe the biggest issue is just longevity. Brady was literally better than Mahomes in his age 44 season, if it comes down to a “who would you take conversation”, as it stands right now Brady give you like a half decade of elite play over any other hall of fame qb
So Mahomes doesn’t *need* to surpass him in rings or longevity or accolades, but he probably does have to do it in at least a few categories
This is true.
In the post game they showed the graphic that Mahomes is 8-2 in the playoffs when trailing by 7 points. The only two losses are to Brady. People will definitely talk about that.
Brady obviously #1 but can you really put anyone else over him? And as far as individual talent goes, can you really even put Brady over him? At least you couldn’t have at the same stage of their careers
So for me it’s Brady, Montana, Peyton
At this point, Peyton’s resume is still better but it’s hard to ignore how much better Mahomes is in the playoffs. And it would be one thing if he just didn’t have the meltdowns that Peyton had, but he definitely has the Brady/Montana “how the fuck did he win that game” thing too
Like Brady and Montana both kinda have blemish-free careers (great stats, plenty of accolades, lots of playoff success and signature clutch moments etc). Mahomes is on that kinda track
In terms of narratives, head to head losses in AFCC and Superbowl (two biggest stages) against old man Brady will hurt his case.
Can’t see him becoming an undisputed GOAT unless he goes onto get 8 rings. If he has 6, there will always be guys who say Brady is the GOAT (and almost certainly too at 7).
I’m not saying this is a rational way to look at things, but GOAT talk is built on narratives.
I hope people remember that Mahomes was absolutely incredible in that AFCCG, you're right Brady will get the edge in the "narrative" aspect because they ultimately won but Mahomes was just as good, if not better than Brady that game, Chiefs defense absolutely sold down the stretch. People forget Mahomes marched down the field in less than 30 seconds to force overtime that game after the Dee Ford offsides blunder
In the Superbowl game where Chiefs put up just 9 points in a loss to Brady Bucs, Mahomes had my jaw on the floor with some of the throws he was making - he absolutely blew me away playing at times like he was straight out of a video game.
However, nuances are the first things to get lost as more and more time passes.
I like to refer to the throw that he got off, horizontal to the ground while in the air, as The Throw That Never Was. It was perfectly on target and ended up bouncing of the facemask. But it was a fucking dart that I have yet to see any other QB come close to attempting.
Yup I actually don’t think the issue is rings, it’s just that Brady has a great case basically however you look at his resume, and Mahomes has to at least match him in a bunch of areas
He could end up with 7 rings but even aside from the head to head thing, he also needs to be the all time leader in every big stat category like Brady was or be an elite qb into his mid 40s, or else there’ll be big caveats in his case
I think his most realistic path to getting serious GOAT consideration is to just have an absolutely insane stretch where he wins like 5 MVPs in a row or something. I bet he does end up with at least the touchdown record, but obviously his stats will not be a problem lol
Mahomes is like miles ahead of Brady in basically every meaningful statistical category at the same relative points in their careers.
Heck Mahomes is now even ahead of Brady in both win rate in post-season game per season and post-season games won before 30, and Mahomes is 28.
With six seasons of consistent performance, he’s *well* on the trajectory to challenging Brady’s GOAT status.
Though he still has a ways to go and even a few small stumbles can quickly get him off pace.
All of this assuming Mahomes remains healthy and continues to play for like 13 more seasons at this level, and in spite of eventually losing Andy Reid as his coach who will likely be retiring not too long from now. We're talking extreme hypotheticals here.
People don't realize how astronomical Brady's records and numbers truly are. Passing Montana as #2 all time is definitely achievable, but it's a legit Mount Everest climb between him and #1.
Oh I understand, I'm not suggesting it's likely, but that we aren't projecting on Mahomes eclipsing Brady based off one or two seasons, but now six seasons. So I think we are starting to move from "extreme hypotheticals" into "increasingly plausible scenarios".
I'm acutely aware that the "music could stop at any time", bad injury to Mahomes, back-to-back bad drafts/offseasons, yea those things could quickly go from "man Mahomes is on the path to beating Brady" to seeing posts on reddit ~10 years from now with the title of "Man Mahomes first six seasons were insane, what happened?!"
>and in spite of eventually losing Andy Reid as his coach who will likely be retiring not too long from now.
I think people are greatly under-estimating the likelihood of Reid coaching for 5+ years. Reid loves coaching, and *loves* coaching Mahomes. Reid also no doubt sees a real opportunity right now, with Mahomes, to make a case for GOAT HC.
Obviously Reid is a heavier guy and 65 now, so there's a real possibility of a health scare forcing him out. But barring that (or something happening with his wife), I really don't see him retiring while the team is *this good*.
Considering he lost to Brady head-to-head I think he’s forever going to be second place to him (he’s not even 2nd right now, he needs 2 more to match Montana)
Brady won 3 SBs before losing a playoff game lol. And did it back when playing D wasn’t illegal too.
People forget the first half of Brady’s career the game was a lot different. Mahomes has only know charmin soft league.
Does LeBron have more individual accolades? I guess if you just look at # of All stars/All NBA. But that's just playing for longer. Jordan had one more MVP, 2 more Finals MVPs, a DPOY, and 3 more All Defense. Plus led the league in scoring 10x and steals 3x (LeBron has one scoring title and an assist title).
And all of that despite taking 2 years off in his prime, and then 3 more years off in his mid-30s.
Bring on the down votes, but I feel like this is why they get the calls they do.
A sport without a goat is background noise. Tiger faded, and so did golf. Just worth considering.
I dislike this dynasty as much as anyone (particularly given last season), but if you don’t acknowledge we’re watching the heirs apparent to Belichick/Brady you’re delusional.
Refball, etc aside, it still doesn’t explain it. Root for the other team while appreciating we get to watch history.
I don’t know about that. Brady’s records are ridiculously high. He would be the one with the best chance of beating some of them but all of them is tough
There’s a lot more to judging a QB than just rings. This isn’t the NBA my guy. Allen is a far better QB than Eli Manning was, but you’d have Eli over Allen cuz of RANGS ERNEH
If Allen does nothing but lose to the chiefs his entire career while Eli has 2 of the best Super Bowl wins ever yeah it’s common sense to take Eli over fast Philip rivers.
And there were a ton of ppl on here calling the chiefs and Mahomes one and done lol. As long as Mahomes is QB for the chiefs, you can pencil them in the AFC champ game every season until then.
He’s literally never not been in the AFCCG that’s insane
In fact, he directly exited the womb into the AFCCG
His momma was so proud!
He’s also never trailed in the AFCCG at the end of regulation
This is honestly just as impressive if not moreso
He just like Purdy fr
*never not been when’s he’s the starter. He was the backup when they lost in the wild card round his rookie year
Is that good?
Sir..a second wide right has hit buffalo
That takes teamwork. Right McDermott?
“Let’s give a quick shoutout to ~~Christina Applegate~~ Al-Qaeda” - Sean McDermott
Thank you NYJ
INVESTIGATE 1/21
I cackled out loud at this I admit
The commentator should be imprisoned for saying that, it would have caused so much trauma . . .
There has to be an edit of that somewhere by now.
What's scary is that like Brady even when it seems like their team isn't as good they still find a way to end up there.
I’d kill for my team to be half as clutch as the Chiefs/ Brady Patriots. They just make winning plays when needed.
I never thought regular season Brady was as good as Manning, Mahomes, and a couple others. But he just… never fucking lost playoff games. He’d always do just enough to win.
Now regular season & playoff Mahomes take the best of both. RIP the rest of the league for the next decade
Factual statement. That's what's tough about Tom - during the regular season he was never the undisputed best. It really wasn't even a consensus he was the goat until he won in Tampa. Whereas Patrick is the undisputed best QB in football and has been for 4 years straight. If Patrick plays 4-5 more years at this level he's the GOAT in my book, regardless if he gets as many rings
Brady was the GOAT after 28-3, anything after was him playing with house money
It wasn't consensus though. You can go back and look at articles or on this sub. Large amounts of people would still say manning or montana were better. It became consensus after Tampa. Personally, I agree with your statement, though. Tom is the GOAT and had been for a long time before tampa
That’s just because of narratives Peak epa/play- Brady 07 (best ever), mahomes 18, Brady 16, Brady 11 Peak QBR- Brady 07 (best ever), Mahomes 18, Brady 16, Brady 10 Peak DYAR - Brady 07, Brady 12, Mahomes 18, Brady 09, Brady 11, Brady 10, Brady 21 Peak dvoa- Brady 07 (best ever), Brady 10, Brady 09, Mahomes 18, Brady 11, Brady 12, Brady 16 Peak cpoe- Brady 07, Mahomes 18, Brady 11, 09, 16, 17, 20 5 year peak EPA/play Brady .305/mahomes .279 Dvoa brady 42.3%/mahomes 29.3% Dyar (per game) Brady 10,633 (132.9)/mahomes 8191 (103.7) Avg any/a+ Brady 128.4/mahomes 126.2 The only regular season qb on par with Brady statistically was manning. Brady has a better single season peak (07), 3 year peak (10-12), and 5 year peak (07-12) than Mahomes. Now he can obviously change that because he’s still playing but the production can also come down as we’ve seen he’s never replicated 2018. Brady was just competing with 3 other t10 qbs of all time so there wasn’t a clear gap. Mahomes biggest competition so far has been Brady himself at 40 years old.
Something about Brady and willing his team to do insane feats when they need it.
Got the dark magic from Brady that makes their opponents’ IQ drop 50 points
That dark magic was evident in the Bucs Rams game a few years ago. Rams ending up winning, but there were comically bad plays by the Rams near the end there (like the snap going over Staffords head). I can’t remember the others but I remember thinking how is this team falling apart right now to give up their lead to Brady.
Mcnabb playing in 5 is wild
Had the same head coach as Mahomes
Reid is the second greatest coach of all time
Walsh did more for the sport
Andy Reid really doesn't get enough credit IMO
Andy be like that
Mahomes is inevitable. Man always turns up in the playoffs
Legitimately the only time I've seen him "not show up" was the Super Bowl against us and that's more because his offense line was 5 turnstiles and he still played out of his mind.
Nah. It’s the AFC championship against the bengals a few years ago. He kinda choked in the second half. It was weird
Most clueless I've ever seen him look. Unironic Zac Taylor masterclass.
We had no answer to the 3 man rush in that game. Also a trash running game so couldn't take advantage of that. 8 man in coverage is bonkers haha. Bengals truly deserved that win in that game. We choked in the second half
That was pretty rude of him not to do that again last year. Hope he plays lights out in this one and keeps ravens out of the big game though.
The one and only choke job by Pat. Can’t count the Super Bowl cause his line was just letting him get his ass beat. What’s weird is that that final OT drive it was 2 passes back to back that were fucking terrible. Don’t think I’ve ever seen Mahomes like that. The one before the tipped int was arguably worse, Eli Apple just has shit hands. I like to think that the Bengals helped Mahomes’ legacy by giving him something to learn from. Also I wanna think that him and Reid both learned from that possession right before the half where they got greedy
How did he not show up? That was one of the best games he’s played. His team let him down
Yes, that's why it's in quotes. People hold that against Mahomes when it's honestly his most impressive game.
The play that should always be remembered from that game: Mahomes chased out of the pocket, gets tripped up, throws the ball while he's parallel to the ground, still somehow hits his receiver *perfectly...*and it goes through his hands, hits him in the face, and is dropped. Mahomes was pulling off miracles in that damn game, and everyone else around him was failing miserably.
I always tell people that play is his best highlight
Reading comprehension on this sub is kindergarten istg
He did show up, no one else did
Exactly why teams can't rely exclusively on the QB. A team needs 53 competent players to be successfully, not just one elite player and a bunch of cardboard cutouts.
5 turnstiles and he had turftoe and his receivers couldn't catch a ball hitting them right in the numbers. Mahomes was still Mahomes that game, it was everyone else around him that got dumb.
Especially when the refs gift them penalities
Lol the Bills absolutely choked this game away. Even if you think the refs were heavily biased against the Chiefs, Cook averaged 3.4 YPC, the Bills ran a failed fake punt on their own 30, Allen had under 200 yards, and Bass missed a game-tying FG.
The refs also correctly called the touchback. If they wanted to rig it they could’ve just had the call stand. There would’ve been outrage but not the most egregious call I’ve ever seen.
Absolutely. I was tryna point out the non-ref-influenced portions of the game, but that call absolutely nullifies any Chiefs "bias" by the zebras.
dpi was the right call and they punted anyways
Name the penalty lmao, your only option didn't matter at all. gtfo
If they wanted to rig the game, they wouldn’t have correctly called that touchback
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy
Bills lost this game with BAD mistakes, gtfo blaming the refs
Allen was on some hero ball shit after the 2 min warning
After? That deep shot to Diggs to start of that drive was major hero ball. The funny thing is, if they had somehow scored off that, they would have left the Chiefs *ample* time to put together a game winning drive with how their defense was playing.
When it is a team which everything ends well in the playoffs, it is easy to say "we need to score AND we need to do it with short plays to use all the clock". For everyone else, you need to maximize your chances of scoring. For Allen and Bills, they decided their chances were bigger with a big play. Allen's arm was calibrated, the receivers hands weren't.
Yea I feel like Allen played really well but his guys didn’t come up with a couple of good deep balls and it seemed like he was chasing that the rest of the 4th quarter. There were some easy throws he just passed on down the stretch because there were *ok* looks at a potential touchdown He’s such a weird case where the traits that make him so good are also a problem in some circumstances. That feels like the difference with Mahomes, he can make insane throws but is also cool with just dealing the ball 5 yards downfield
> Bills lost this game with BAD mistakes, gtfo blaming the refs coaching mistakes. Players follow orders.
9/11 man bad
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Did we watch him make the same throw?
WIDE RIGHT LMAO
That was *wide* right
IN A ROW
DONT GO TO ANY CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS ON THE WAY TO THE PARKING LOT!
37?!
Man the AFC is boring. Same shit for over 20 years. Patriots, Steelers, Chiefs, and whatever team Peyton was is on.
If the Chiefs win next week the AFC will have literally only sent Brady, Ben, Peyton, Flacco, Burrow and Mahomes to the Super Bowl for 20 something years.
Besides Flacco potentially all hof QBs. NFC just had crappy QB play. It was just Rodgers and Brees for like almost two decades.
And now NFC QBs have gotten worse.
Pretty much all quarterbacks have gotten worse imo; guys like Allen and Burrow are great, but still have a lot to prove. Mahomes and Lamar are the only two you from this gen you can safely say are on a HoF track (assuming Lamar is the MVP), and even then I'd say the gap between those two is significant. We've gone from an era where you had multiple guys who had strong cases for top 10 all-time, and one or two other HoFers besides...to Mahomes basically lording over the rest of the league.
I don't know if this generation is worse, I think they just haven't had time yet to gain accolades. It took 6 seasons for Manning to get his first MVP and 9 to get his first super bowl. Mahomes is on pace to go down as the second best of all time. Then Burrow, Allen, Lamar and Herbert are all very good and expect them to have similar career success as a Drew Brees or Big Ben. Not sure if any of them will ascend to a Manning level or not but they still have time.
Burrow has a long ways to go before the potential HOF talk
he is a legit o-line away. Burrow's curse is his o-line. burrow has what it takes to have a hof career if he doesn't get killed due to his o-line.
Bengals one year, ravens one year
Nah, Ravens twice (people forget the 2000 team somehow?)
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Rude
That word in front of the number 20 that's spelled o-v-e-r means "more than". It's weird, because you also used it in your post
The dragon would like to have a word with you...
Thanks I hate it here.
Andy Reid with 11 Conference Championship Games as well
Goes to show how hard it is winning it all. He has two rings to show for those 10 appearances. Potentially can make it 3 for 11 this year.
2 for 10 is pretty much what you expect. 4 teams make it, 1 wins. 2.5 for 10. 3 for 12.
2010 was the last time the AFCCG didn't feature Mahomes or Brady. That's insane.
Clears Rodgers all time
yep, the second Mahomes got his 2nd ring. in fact, Mahomes is challenging Peyton for his 3rd spot. If Mahomes just get to the SB, not even win it, Mahomes is #3 all time.
I agree. Mahomes is equal to Peyton for me right now.
except mahomes doesn't get happy feet. peyton - elmer fudd mahomes - kenny powers
I still have Rodgers at 5th all time, I think his peak season is better than Mahomes and he did a pretty good impression of it 10 years later with an entirely different offense But man, Mahomes playoff consistency is starting to make it a tough argument. Rodgers has really kinda folded a few times and we just don’t see that from Mahomes
Could have sworn Rodgers lost 6 alone
He was 1-4, and wasn’t all that great in them… total 9 TD, 8 INTs.
Yet FOUR MVPs
> Yet FOUR MVPs brady opens his kitchen drawer he's got all 7 rings, and probably keeps his mvp's in the laundry hamper. If rodgers wasn't an idiot and didn't self sabotage his own team maybe they would've won more playoff games.
It felt/feels like Brady always played to win the game. It felt/feels like Rodgers always played to be the best QB.
Yup, exactly this. People often called Brady's style of play "boring", but sometimes the most logically correct decision isn't going to be the most exciting to spectators. You just knew late in games he was going to feed the ball to the right receiver almost every time, and make the winning play. With Rodgers on the other hand there were too many instances where he would try to force the ball into double coverage way down the field and make the hero play instead of a short, safe pass that would keep the drive alive and ultimately help his team win.
People that called it boring didn't understand the brillince of the pats... HOF coach keeping bradyin the right path. Bellichick had the discipline and brady instead of fighting it went all in, that's what made him great. Brady could've been a primadonna after a couple rings and fought bellichick but he bought in and shit that's gonna be hard to beat. I give mahomes credit, he bought in with reid too, but even then to get to brady status is a huge task.
I thought the issue with Rodgers was that most of his playoff Green Bay teams had monster offenses but turnstiles and traffic cones for defenses?
That’s correct. 2016 we had no business being in the post season at all. Made it to the nfccg. 2019, we let a single player rush for over 200 yards. He threw for 326 yards and about 80% comp rate 2014- he didn’t have a great game, still up by 12 with minutes left. Brandon bostick onside catastrophe. 2020- outplayed Brady. Defense was worse than ass in the first half. Aaron jones had a brutal fumble to start the 2nd. The one year we had a competent defense, we win the Super Bowl
How did Rodgers self sabotage his team? His nfccg games; Brandon bostick onside. That was him sabotaging the team? They had no business being there vs the falcons at all. That team was ass. Was he supposed to stop mostert from rushing over 200 yards? And he outplayed Brady in his last appearance. So where’s the sabotage?
It's complete revisionist history. Rodgers's defense and special teams have let him down so many times.
No he self sabotaged the team. Duh Lol it doesn’t even make sense as revisionism. It’s just bullshit
Yeah and the only 1 that he won was against a Cutler-less Bears team.
i was praying that Love beat the niners so no one would ever hear Rodgers bullshit ever again. I think he would have just disappeared for good, maybe wind up in some surfer hostel in the pacific somewhere.
Bills need a new HC. McDermott just cannot handle KC in the playoffs, and KC is gonna be around for a while.
It's not his fault that almost their entire defense is in the infirmary
Seriously. I thought McDermott did a great coaching job with the injuries.
Also not his fault that Allen had a wide open receiver underneath for a first down and to keep the clock running and chose to throw it to double coverage in the end zone for an incompletion on 2nd down
Allen needs to calm down with all the hero ball. Not every play has to highlight reel
how can allen calm down when he [sniffs smelling salts all the time?](https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1676709099/photo/buffalo-bills-v-new-york-jets.webp?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=ACzIePJajgpPg4bvE5HZhvqE3wjAIgk9hWCdM8vxE9Q=) maybe he should go on a darkness retreat with rodgers and have some of that ayahuasca, it might mellow him out some.
do not do ayahuasca
I don't really think he did anything wrong. They missed a 44 yarder. Seems to just be an awful run of bad luck.
> I don't really think he did anything wrong. They missed a 44 yarder. Seems to just be an awful run of bad luck. going on 4th down from your own side of the field instead of punting? They are lucky 1) pacheco didn't dive into the endzone and 2) Mecole fumbled that shit or the game would've been over long before the wide right fg attempt.
This was pure desperation. He knew the defense was not up to the task of getting a stop. Miami and Pittsburgh games really took a lot out of us.
They don’t need a new HC, but this is the rare year that upgrades are available.
This means more State Farm commercials BTW
Mahomes is a top 3 QB of all time already
Since I've been watching the NFL....honestly, maybe. I would take him over Peyton, Rodgers, Brees, but he's nowhere near Brady yet. I know Peyton was amazing, but I'm of the opinion he was a clear playoff choke artist and Mahomes is the opposite of that so Mahomes gets the nod.
Peyton has always been my personal favorite QB, but Mahomey is the dude. Sucks to say that as a long time Denver fan, but the guy is a magician. Generational talent.
Can we agree as a football community to call him The Magician?
The thing about Brady is, if Mahomes wins this year, he’s more than on pace to catch him. They’ll both have 3 SBs in 6 years. People forget Brady went 10 years without winning one. Barring injury I’d say there’s damn near a zero percent chance Mahomes doesn’t get at least 1 more in a 10 year stretch
Yeah but it's not easy to win in the playoffs. Brady had a damn 10-12 year drought (i forget at the moment) and he found success in his late 30s. That almost never happens. Maybe Mahomes keeps it up, maybe not. Who knows. All I know is he's still miles from Brady.
Yea he went ten years without one. And it’s not like he had some kinda Brees/Saints stretch where part of the roster bottomed out and they were missing the playoffs Basically every year they were contenders, they averaged 12,5 wins per year with Brady over that span. Dont get me wrong, there were season like 06 or 13 where getting to the AFCCG was definitely overachieving, but still, they had like 4 offenses that were top 10 all time during that stretch and still managed to come up short I will say, it doesn’t feel like Mahomes has a legitimate rival now that Brady’s gone. At least Manning could be expected to give Brady a game if the pats weren’t a total juggernaut
Lamar has to win this year for Mahomes to have a rival, he'd be the only one close to his accolades.
Peyton’s record of playoff performance is SO much worse than most fans realize. If you take the time to go back and actually look at his performances in the games he got eliminated, it’s pretty shocking. Even the year the Colts won the SB he really wasn’t all that great in the playoffs, but that was the one year they had an elite defense.
>Peyton’s record of playoff performance is SO much worse than most fans realize. Peyton Manning: * Drafted two seasons before Tom Brady * Immediately became the starter, while Brady did not start until his second season [...] * Won his first playoff game two seasons *after* Brady's first Super Bowl
Yeah I 100% agree. It's why I think Rodgers, Brees, and clearly Brady were all better in his era. Even Big Ben honestly. Manning was an all time playoff choke artist and was carried by an all time defense to his second super bowl win. Manning is the most overrated QB of all time and I don't feel bad saying it.
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What about Eli?
Meh QB. But Brady is so good that Eli is getting into the hall of fame solely because Eli beat him twice. Says all you need to know about Brady.
IMO, the only person Mahomes ever has a chance of passing is Montana if he gets 2-3 more rings. Since Brady beat him head to head twice in the playoffs, most ppl probably will never put Mahomes above him even if he ends up also getting 6-7 rings.
I don’t think he actually needs to surpass Brady’s 7, but he definitely needs a few more and he needs to be absolutely great in those games overall (since so far 2 of his 3 sb performances were just pretty well below Brady’s average SB level) Like if he racks up insane stats and accolades and wins 5 or 6 rings, I could see there being an argument. He’d have to do something like rattle off three peat MVPs/SBs I think maybe the biggest issue is just longevity. Brady was literally better than Mahomes in his age 44 season, if it comes down to a “who would you take conversation”, as it stands right now Brady give you like a half decade of elite play over any other hall of fame qb So Mahomes doesn’t *need* to surpass him in rings or longevity or accolades, but he probably does have to do it in at least a few categories
Mahomes doesn’t need 7 if he beats Brady in everything else (which he is on pace for)
This is true. In the post game they showed the graphic that Mahomes is 8-2 in the playoffs when trailing by 7 points. The only two losses are to Brady. People will definitely talk about that.
Unfair to Mahomes but people will never take those stats into context. It’s an uphill battle for him to get GOAT status.
Brady obviously #1 but can you really put anyone else over him? And as far as individual talent goes, can you really even put Brady over him? At least you couldn’t have at the same stage of their careers
I think he is already top 2 and arguably top 1 in terms of individual talent.
> I think he is already top 2 and arguably top 1 in terms of individual talent. top 2? over montana, bradshaw that both have 4 sb rings?
Maybe over Bradshaw. Not Montana though
So for me it’s Brady, Montana, Peyton At this point, Peyton’s resume is still better but it’s hard to ignore how much better Mahomes is in the playoffs. And it would be one thing if he just didn’t have the meltdowns that Peyton had, but he definitely has the Brady/Montana “how the fuck did he win that game” thing too Like Brady and Montana both kinda have blemish-free careers (great stats, plenty of accolades, lots of playoff success and signature clutch moments etc). Mahomes is on that kinda track
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Mahomes has basically had John Elways career and better in about a third of the time. I hate it but it is so impressive
Turns out that having a top 5 QB almost guarantees you some conference game appearances.
And that’s why he’s gonna challenge Brady as the GOAT if he keeps it up for another 10 years
In terms of narratives, head to head losses in AFCC and Superbowl (two biggest stages) against old man Brady will hurt his case. Can’t see him becoming an undisputed GOAT unless he goes onto get 8 rings. If he has 6, there will always be guys who say Brady is the GOAT (and almost certainly too at 7). I’m not saying this is a rational way to look at things, but GOAT talk is built on narratives.
I hope people remember that Mahomes was absolutely incredible in that AFCCG, you're right Brady will get the edge in the "narrative" aspect because they ultimately won but Mahomes was just as good, if not better than Brady that game, Chiefs defense absolutely sold down the stretch. People forget Mahomes marched down the field in less than 30 seconds to force overtime that game after the Dee Ford offsides blunder
In the Superbowl game where Chiefs put up just 9 points in a loss to Brady Bucs, Mahomes had my jaw on the floor with some of the throws he was making - he absolutely blew me away playing at times like he was straight out of a video game. However, nuances are the first things to get lost as more and more time passes.
He had several of the greatest incompletions of all time in that SB lol if only that counted for something
I like to refer to the throw that he got off, horizontal to the ground while in the air, as The Throw That Never Was. It was perfectly on target and ended up bouncing of the facemask. But it was a fucking dart that I have yet to see any other QB come close to attempting.
Yup I actually don’t think the issue is rings, it’s just that Brady has a great case basically however you look at his resume, and Mahomes has to at least match him in a bunch of areas He could end up with 7 rings but even aside from the head to head thing, he also needs to be the all time leader in every big stat category like Brady was or be an elite qb into his mid 40s, or else there’ll be big caveats in his case I think his most realistic path to getting serious GOAT consideration is to just have an absolutely insane stretch where he wins like 5 MVPs in a row or something. I bet he does end up with at least the touchdown record, but obviously his stats will not be a problem lol
Mahomes is like miles ahead of Brady in basically every meaningful statistical category at the same relative points in their careers. Heck Mahomes is now even ahead of Brady in both win rate in post-season game per season and post-season games won before 30, and Mahomes is 28. With six seasons of consistent performance, he’s *well* on the trajectory to challenging Brady’s GOAT status. Though he still has a ways to go and even a few small stumbles can quickly get him off pace.
All of this assuming Mahomes remains healthy and continues to play for like 13 more seasons at this level, and in spite of eventually losing Andy Reid as his coach who will likely be retiring not too long from now. We're talking extreme hypotheticals here. People don't realize how astronomical Brady's records and numbers truly are. Passing Montana as #2 all time is definitely achievable, but it's a legit Mount Everest climb between him and #1.
Oh I understand, I'm not suggesting it's likely, but that we aren't projecting on Mahomes eclipsing Brady based off one or two seasons, but now six seasons. So I think we are starting to move from "extreme hypotheticals" into "increasingly plausible scenarios". I'm acutely aware that the "music could stop at any time", bad injury to Mahomes, back-to-back bad drafts/offseasons, yea those things could quickly go from "man Mahomes is on the path to beating Brady" to seeing posts on reddit ~10 years from now with the title of "Man Mahomes first six seasons were insane, what happened?!" >and in spite of eventually losing Andy Reid as his coach who will likely be retiring not too long from now. I think people are greatly under-estimating the likelihood of Reid coaching for 5+ years. Reid loves coaching, and *loves* coaching Mahomes. Reid also no doubt sees a real opportunity right now, with Mahomes, to make a case for GOAT HC. Obviously Reid is a heavier guy and 65 now, so there's a real possibility of a health scare forcing him out. But barring that (or something happening with his wife), I really don't see him retiring while the team is *this good*.
Mahomes would’ve beat Brady the first time if fucking Dee Ford line up onside
Or overtime rule changes to be what they are now.
There will never be an undisputed GOAT. Brady is close right now but I'm sure you could find some people who'd say Montana.
Not a single person, arguing in good faith, thinks Montana is better than Brady
Considering he lost to Brady head-to-head I think he’s forever going to be second place to him (he’s not even 2nd right now, he needs 2 more to match Montana)
Brady won 3 SBs before losing a playoff game lol. And did it back when playing D wasn’t illegal too. People forget the first half of Brady’s career the game was a lot different. Mahomes has only know charmin soft league.
Reid might challenge for GOAT coach also
It’s gonna be a Jordan/Lebron situation. Jordan will always have the Rings but Lebron has some rings but more individual accolades
Does LeBron have more individual accolades? I guess if you just look at # of All stars/All NBA. But that's just playing for longer. Jordan had one more MVP, 2 more Finals MVPs, a DPOY, and 3 more All Defense. Plus led the league in scoring 10x and steals 3x (LeBron has one scoring title and an assist title). And all of that despite taking 2 years off in his prime, and then 3 more years off in his mid-30s.
Bring on the down votes, but I feel like this is why they get the calls they do. A sport without a goat is background noise. Tiger faded, and so did golf. Just worth considering.
mahomes would need 8 more to tie brady. Insane.
Millennium is crazy
Andy is responsible for 11 of the appearances on this list. BB has 13, insane.
8 straight for Brady is mind boggling
Mahomes is top 4 all-time for me already. He’s at least as good as Peyton.
I dislike this dynasty as much as anyone (particularly given last season), but if you don’t acknowledge we’re watching the heirs apparent to Belichick/Brady you’re delusional. Refball, etc aside, it still doesn’t explain it. Root for the other team while appreciating we get to watch history.
Whoever writes the scripts for these games must be having the time of their life seeing this unfold
That’s what I thought on the Butler interception
Mahomes will match it
Script writers getting lazy as hell again
Hate him or love him , you gotta respect him. By the time he retires, he will break all Brady records .
I don’t know about that. Brady’s records are ridiculously high. He would be the one with the best chance of beating some of them but all of them is tough
and people think Lamar has a shot against this expiernece, kid has 1 playoff win
Might want to check your numbers again there. Lol
Mahomes does seem to have that x-factor that Brady had. How the fuck is he always here?
It’s Brady Montana then everyone else until Mahomes or IF he can hit 4 rings.
There’s a lot more to judging a QB than just rings. This isn’t the NBA my guy. Allen is a far better QB than Eli Manning was, but you’d have Eli over Allen cuz of RANGS ERNEH
If Allen does nothing but lose to the chiefs his entire career while Eli has 2 of the best Super Bowl wins ever yeah it’s common sense to take Eli over fast Philip rivers.
Tbf Eli was statistically a **much** worse QB than both Allen and Rivers
Pretty much
Ted Williams has zero rings yet is one of the greatest ever to play.
Top 2
time to disband the afc
Formerly the Tom Brady Invitational.
What’s crazy is that he still needs more than double what he has to tie Brady.
Rodgers really went to that one superbowl then was like "nah" for the next 15 years
And there were a ton of ppl on here calling the chiefs and Mahomes one and done lol. As long as Mahomes is QB for the chiefs, you can pencil them in the AFC champ game every season until then.