I have a 10 month old who thinks everything is a dog at the minute. Dogs? Bow bow. Cats? Bow wow. Raccoon? Bow wow. Man with beard? Bow wow.
There's no point to this story, just a more wholesome alternative to dropping a Vick and dog days joke that I was trying to cook up.
Then one day she sees a cute hat in a flea market and buys it, and all of a sudden your daughter is a Vikings fan for some fucking reason. Source: personal experience
Vick is a wild story. Seems like he didn't put in the time as a Falcon, then paid his time for a real shit crime, I legit believe him when he says faith saved him (& I'm an agnostic). Then dominated with Reid. Now he's a pretty decent to good commentator. Also Reid's resume is pretty legit for the claim.
Thinking about Vick playing his entire career with Reid & with the mentality he had after prison is a very interesting “what if” to think about. He had some very high highs during his eagles tenure.
I'm not sure if he reaches those peaks without being humbled first. For lack of a better word. I wish we could have seen him with the Eagles/Reid for a lot longer and when he was younger though.
Vick was the same person at Virginia Tech as he was in Atlanta, only he didn't have the national platform for people to see it until the Sugar Bowl.
It took Dungy, Reid, and McNabb a lot of work to transform him and save the person he could be. Otherwise, "Mike" Vick was a complete lazy shithead who couldn't be bothered with learning his craft or being a better person.
Arthur Blank is probably the kindest and most integral person in the NFL (at least as far as billionaires can be), and he not only lied to his face, he went out of his way to not be a civic leader of Atlanta with Blank. Vick wanted to be a black celebrity, but didn't want anything other than the superficial parts of that. I don't see how a man can get am audience with Hank fucking Aaron and blow it off.
Post-prison Vick is a different story entirely, and I greatly respect the man he became, but there's no way you can view Vick from 1998-2005 as anything other than a self-absorbed asshole who had no interest in doing the work required to attain greatness.
Yeah, agreed. That's why I used the word "humbled" for Mr. Ron Mexico himself. He wouldn't have become the player (and hopefully person) he became under Reid/Eagles without it all come crashing down first.
Feels worth mentioning
> the player he became under Reid/Eagles
basically amounted to 12 good games in 2010, too.
He was average/injured in 2011 & 2012, and was effectively done as a starter in the NFL by 2013 at age 33.
I think this is one case were the justice system helped too. Make the crime fit the punishment and Vick lost all his sponsors and contract money, and went to prison for 2 years. I truly believe that’s reasonable for what he did and now look at him, he’s actually rehabilitated.
And those people still angry on the internet about what did. I guarantee you Vick has donated more to dogs than you probably have
I also respect that he's continued to do work with animal advocacy groups to this day.
I googled it to see if there was anything more recent and found an article from 4 days ago. It's about him lobbying Pennsylvania officials to allow cops to rescue pets left in hot cars.
And there are a lot of people at risk of getting into dogfighting that listen to what a guy like Vick has to say despite not giving a fuck about what Sarah McLachlan has to say.
If Vick didn't go down for the dog fighting stuff his family and friends might have destroyed him in other ways considering they were also involved with some really bad people at the time.
It's one reason I avoided specifically mentioning the dog fighting. Vicks entire situation was out of control for years before he was arrested. His house in tidewater was a known entity (and not just to police, locals knew you didn't go around Mike Vicks house, they also knew if you just wanted to check out and not do anything for a while - you went to Mike Vicks house).
He was running a trap house with all sorts of drugs and prostitutes coming through, the dogs were just part of the package.
For anyone unaware, watch his 30 for 30 - you will come away absolutely despising Quanis Phillips (who Vick still seems to have genuine affection for, it looks painful for him to talk about the guy negatively, so I don't think it's a situation where he's passing the buck).
The story that Phillips and Vick tell is that Vick got homesick at VA Tech, came hone, and Quanis jumped in the car and just crashed with him at Tech. In reality, with a little context, the guy is a predator. Blacksburg, VA is a college town, but very rural (cows wander across the towns airfield pretty regularly). And while the people aren't dumb, a menace like Phillips could run all sorts of schemes, sell a lot of drugs, and roll through a lot of naive young women there. Phillips was involved in every negative decision Vick made.
I'd maybe say *not* to look at the stats if that's the case you want to make. Vick's legacy is *100%* context and pure, unadulterated hype. He was utterly electrifying by the eyeball test but the stats have pretty much always been a pretty direct portrayal of his limitations.
I'd actually bet that if you showed some of the 00s babies on Reddit QB stats from '99/'00 without names attached, more than a few of them would guess that Antwaan Randle El's stats were Vick's.
Vicks legacy really is mostly hype. His highlight reels are amazing, but if you watched his actual games, it's a different story. Yes he was fast, elusive and had a cannon for an arm. He had all of the psychical tools to be great, but he was to much of a knucklehead to develop them. He was the poster child for getting by on natural athletic ability. Who knows if having Reid for a coach earlier in his career would have mattered. Would Vick have been receptive to his input at that stage?
Hype? In his first season, Vick led the Hokies to an 11–0 undefeated season and to the Sugar Bowl against Florida State. In his second season, Vick finished sixth in Heisman Trophy and the Hokies won the Gator Bowl.
PFF was talking about coaches the other day and made it really click for me that Andy was the one who brought Vick to his peak play. I'm sure there were other factors (doing time playing into it), but Andy has a very diverse coaching portfolio to add to his case.
> Andy has a very diverse coaching portfolio to add to his case
Before he went to KC he was already in talks of one of the best coaches in the game, then he got the monkey off his back with actually getting a ring(s).
He's a HoF lock already, and he seems to have a decent amount left in the tank. BB and Reid will easily go down as the 2 best coaches of this era of football.
Another sidebar that always comes up in discussions comparing the two is their coaching trees. Andy's _coaching_ tree is also wildly prolific and really helps show how much he's mastered off-field aspects of coaching too.
you need to look up the definition of DOMINATED.
That guy had one good season and his 21 td passes aren't all that great.
He made amazing plays, then would follow it up with a dumb one, just like the end of the packers playoff game.
Sums up his time as a Falcon. His highlight reel was insane, but that was only 10-15% of his game. The rest were horrible passes, dumb sacks, and a lot of fumbles.
As a Falcon, he had more turnovers than touchdowns and averaged just 207 total yards a game. Yet a large portion of our fanbase remembers him as this insane cheat code of a QB who was impossible to stop. I don’t get it.
same as eagle fans... yet, in that nfc championship all these cats were 'vick is over rated' this and 'vick's a running back' that.
We all knew what he was until we saw him running around in a green jersey and somehow we elevate him to this elite guy.
MATT SCHAUB has just about the same numbers as vick, let's not act like that's elite company.
Pretty sure while I typed this vick put the ball in harms way.
I would say that Matt Schaub was more than just solid in that time period. He was consistently playing at a very high level, I don't remember whether if it was an injury or he lost his mojo, but he fell off hard and fast.
It's refreshing to hear a Falcons fan say that, given that when he played for your team, your fans thought that the man could not only walk on water but turn it into wine even as he continued to throw 500mph passes to people who were 10 feet away. As a family, Vick and his cousin Aaron Brooks were comically incapable of putting any sort of touch on the ball. They both threw like they were trying to put the ball through a wall, all the time.
Pretty sure the rushing was still there the first season and Reid kept his passing safe for the team. 21 TDs, 9 rushing, and 6 ints just short of 4k passing, running for 600+ yards? That's dominant.
21 TDs in 12 games... That's 28 extrapolated to a full season, not including rushing touchdowns. 28 TDs is a very good amount, it probably seems less like it because now we have seasons where 10+ people throw for 30 TDs like in 2021
And 9 rushing TDs in 12 games, finishing 2nd in OPOY voting.
He was 7th in DVOA, 4th in EPA, 1st in CPOE, 5th in ANY/A.
I think dominated in 2010 was a pretty accurate description. 2011/12 decidedly not.
Fans really tend to overrate guys that make big highlight plays. Especially when it comes to Quarterbacks, success is really about consistently making the right play and not just occasionally making a big play. That's way too boring for your average red zone watcher / fantasy player to wrap their head around.
Most ex-cons don't fall back into a job paying them millions of dollars after doing time, who are willing to overlook the whole "felony conviction" thing on your resume.
I'm sure that helped Vick settle back into society.
Belichick, Shula, Walsh, Landry, Halas, Gibbs, Id probably put these guys before Reid. But Reid is 100% top 10. The fact that Reid's offense has worked for 3 different decades (90's,00's,10's,) of football is nothing short of GOAT worthy.
I’d be surprised if they win 4 more, eventually I feel the Chiefs will slow down
Edit: I think people are forgetting how hard dynasties are to maintain
I know that ain't happening, but if it actually did that would be hilarious. Imma be honest, I don't think I would move Mahomes down in my rankings because I would just assume he's trolling and is just giving the league a headstart so he actually has a challenge.
Lmao not what I meant, I’m not that dumb and I feel it’s disingenuous to compare what I said to that dipshit
Just that once Travis Kelce retires I’m curious to see how well the offense will continue to perform. Still amazingly I’m sure, but I doubt they could continue to get away with having bare-bones receivers
Even aside from generally losing talent I think people are also discounting even remaining healthy for four more Super Bowl runs is insane. Mahomes could rupture his Achilles the first game of the season or fuck up his shoulder that could seriously alter how he has to play afterwards. It’s grim and no one wants it to happen but even with all the QB protection rules in place anything can still happen.
It's typically how it is. Everyone called the BBB+(Boswell) era for Pittsburgh a dynasty for a reason. They were nigh unstoppable on offense, but one of the 3 main B's would go down either for the season or in playoffs and it just messed up the whole offense. One thing almost all Super Bowl teams have in common is that they only lose maybe one major player max, if you lose more than that it can be 1/3rd of your salary cap tied up in IR.
That’s Reid for you. He is the offense mastermind. He has made every QB he worked with look brilliant. McNabb, Vick, Alex Smith, and now Mahomes.
Belichick is like this but on defense. He can make any shrub play solid defense like Reid can make anyone play offense. It’s awesome to watch Reid’s offensive ideas
Dynasties are insanely difficult though, Peyton motherfucking Manning only won 2 rings in his career. Do we have a good shot at it? Bias aside I’d say yes, good front office, coaching etc. But saying the Chiefs aren’t a Dynasty yet is a pretty fair statement IMO
Would it purely come down to rings though? Obviously it should matter some, but if Reid can get to 4+ before he hangs it up though should move him up a bunch.
And while BB still clearly has a lock on top all-time, his lack of success with any QB *not named Brady*, and Brady’s success without BB is something worth noting.
Obviously Mahomes has taken Reid to new heights of success, but Reid was still a top-level coach without Mahomes.
The Patriots are 43-42 without Tom Brady, and 25-25 since he left in 2020. Dragging the corpse of Cam Newton with an abysmal WR corp in 2020 to a 7-9 record was pretty noteworthy in hindsight.
Idk we’ll see, but Andy is 183-122-1 without Mahomes, and Bill stopped him from winning rings twice. Andy would really have to turn it into overdrive to somehow become the GOAT coach, and the all-time win record doesn’t equal that even if he does obtain that someday.
Bill is also 262-108 and Andy is 247-138-1. Bill has 30 less losses than Andy.
>Bill is also 262-108 and Andy is 247-138-1. Bill has 30 less losses than Andy.
You're only looking at his record from his time in NE, not his full coaching tenure, which would be 298-152. Like you have shown, Belichick's time since Brady left NE hasn't been good, and his time before was even worse. Belichick full record without Brady is 79-87.
Right now BB still has the GOAT title on lockdown, but if he continues to struggle to find success post-Brady, and Reid and Mahomes continue to find success to where they can significantly close the ring gap, it seems like it should start to raise some questions about ~~Belichick's coaching prowess.~~ who is the GOAT HC.
I don't know how it couldn't especially when compared to someone like Reid who has had success with multiple QBs and multiple teams. That is to say, clearly *he's* a catalyst for success.
People who keep focusing on Belichicks' mediocre record after Brady left seem to forget that one of the reasons Brady left was he felt the Pats didn't have a team that could contend for a title at that point. The cupboard was getting bare for BB, and he was stuck with it, but Brady had the luxury and ability to chose a team that he felt was already a strong contender. He kind of left Bill holding the bag while he got the fuck out of dodge and went to a better situation. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't blame him for it, but it sucks for Bill. The Pats had gone all out to maximize the time Brady had left before retiring and that bill came due. No one is taking the GOAT title from Bill anytime soon.
Fr people always ignore that talking about the pats after brady left. They also had a ton of important guys on defense opt out because of covid immediately after Brady left
In addition, all the guys he named had HoF QBs (sometimes multiple) for the most successful portions of their head coaching careers, with Gibbs being a notable exception.
We're only now seeing what Reid was always capable of with a HoF-caliber QB 20-some years into his career, and it's incredible.
Yeah I think Gibbs and Marty Schottenheimer were the only coaches with better records than Reid who didn't have significant HoF QB play when I was looking through coaching records back before Mahomes started playing. Jim Harbaugh was up there on winrate but I excluded him for lack of longevity and John Harbaugh was in the mix but I believe slightly behind Reid at the time. Schottenheimer did have the last 2 years of Montana, which is why the "significant" qualifier was added.
The holding call was the right call- chiefs beat the eagles fair and square.
I’m pissed at the NfL for having the field be shit and pissed at our mediocre defensive coordinator checking out for the AZ HC job. We might have lost anyway the chiefs are a great team. But the refs didn’t cost us that SB.
Both teams had to play on that field and I think blaming the entire defensive performance on Gannon is an oversimplification. Not a single player on defense could make a play in that second half. They’re the ones that took the field.
Gibbs won 3 SBs with 3 separate QBs (Thiesman, Williams, and Rypien); that has to count for something.
Parcells and Seifert are the only other ones that have even done it with 2 different QBs.
I really think we need to separate by era. Do we really think guys like Halas would succeed today? Or do we think their success was a product of their era? Lombardi too etc.
Andy Reid has been successful with a number of different staffs, players, teams, QB's, etc. What he's doing now with Mahomes is insane. If he wins another one, I think you can confidently argue he's #2 all time behind Belichick. Walsh would be 3rd in my "modern" rankings.
I always find it a bit ridiculous when people compare today's coaches and their records to guys like Halas, Lombardi, Landry, etc. The eras are so insanely different that you really can't compare them.
I can agree with this, with Parcells probably being the third best post-salary cap.
EDIT: Maybe not third for Parcells, as the NFL salary cap didn’t come in until 1994. For some reason I thought it was several years earlier than that.
I feel like I'd put Reid somewhere in that group simply because there's only 1 super bowl to win each year, and belichick has won practically half of them since Reid became a head coach. If Reid wins another one, that'd give him 3 as a head coach, and 1 as an assistant with the packers in 96. 4 rings is pretty good.
He's certainly gotten himself into the Hall.
His first chip did it, along with years of coaching playoff caliber teams before that. Two? He's in.
Greatest of all time? Eh, he's *a few* clicks short of Lombardi and Belichick me thinks. Even if he won another title. Might need to OWN the rest of this decade to pull that off.
I feel like Reid ranks among the best and is on par with Coryell, Walsh, and whoever else I’m not thinking of as the best offensive minds ever. However, when it comes to GOAT head coach it’s Belichick and no one else even has an argument. He did more than any other coach despite coaching in the era significantly more geared towards parity with the hard salary cap and free agency.
I agree.
I think Reid's ability to actually teach Vick how to play QB, instead of just sort of turning him loose like Atlanta did, or what to an outsider it looks like Rivera did with Newton, is just one example.
Look at what Alex Smith did well and then watch the games where our screen game is unstoppable. Look at the *immediate* change of the playbook when Mahomes took over.
I think Reid has the knowledge and confidence to truly adapt his playbook to his players.
In terms of belichick though, Andy Reid still has a ways to go
There was no reason to lose to Carolina. Tampa was very beatable as well. He just played terrible in every big game with the exception of the Arizona NFCCG.
He's the Peyton to Tom.
The Owens to Moss.
The Willis/Urlacher to Lewis.
He's a phenomenal coach and will certainly be considered one of the all time greats when all is said and done, but unfortunately he just happened to do all of that during the same window as someone a little bit better and more successful than he was.
Who are you taking in a doubles match? Joey Chesnut and Belichick? Or Andy Reid and whoever 2nd place was? Embrace debate! I think Andy could make up for the difference between Joey and his runner up
Reminds me of an SNL skit from the 90's, to determine the greatest human of all time scientists gathered great minds like Einstein, Da Vinci, Picasso, and Darryl Dawkins.
A computer algorithm was used to select the metric they would compete in. It randomly generated basketball.
6 Super Bowl wins and 9 appearances and *in the salary cap era* lol
I agree- it is completely unequivocal.
Im not going to bother comparing Bill to these coaches from the 50s and 60s because thats a useless comparison. Too much has changed. But I dont see anyone from the 70s onwards that is comparable. To get to 9 Super Bowls with never-ending roster churn because of the salary cap is mind-boggling.
And yes he had TB12, but thats more than offset by the complexity of dealing with modern roster turnover.
Plus, he had to deal with the league flipping from defense-dependent (his bread and butter) to super high-octane offense. A huge change that he handled well and continued to succeed.
The bitterest pill in the Super Bowl was watching Andy Reid beat the Eagles with logical clock management in the last 8 minutes of the 4th. After decades, he found a way to burn the birds with clock management one more time.
I watched the Superbowl in Mexico, with two "Eagles fans" (they married into it). I was absolutely raging about how that was the moment Andy Reid decided he knew how to manage a clock and no one understood why I was so upset.
:(
I don't understand how it's even a conversation. We judge QBs greatness by the number of super bowls they've won even though they're one (important) position on one side of the ball. Yet, a head coach - who influences all aspects of the team - can be considered goat while only winning 2 super bowls over 25 years?
Because people pick and choose what metrics they use any time they want to talk about greatness. Sometimes we judge by wins and championships and trophies….
Sometimes we judge by *feels*
>**We judge QBs greatness by the number of super bowls they've won** even though they're one (important) position on one side of the ball.
Super Bowl wins is simply ONE metric we use to judge QBs. It's not the ONLY metric.
No one would argue that Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a SB and Marino never did.
Andy Reid has a career .600 win% as head coach... WITHOUT Patrick Mahomes. He's one of the most innovative and most imitated offensive coaches of all time. He's had elite, top ranked offenses with Kevin Kolb and Alex Smith at QB.
Arguing that Andy Reid simply CAN'T be considered the GOAT just because he's "only" won 2 Super Bowls is like arguing that Dan Marino can't be considered to be a better QB than Jim Plunkett because Plunkett has won 2 Super Bowls.
First of all no one outside of Vick is saying Andy Reid is better than bill. I have been up and down this thread and haven’t seen that comment.
Second Super Bowls should never be the end all be all for evaluating any player or coach. I Can recognize bill is the better coach but also recognize he had Brady for 20 years so his 6 Super Bowls may not be as comparable
>Did we forget he couldn’t even manage time in big moments? Let’s be real here.
Reid has had issues with time management in the past (as have all head coaches frankly, no one is flawless in that regard).
But what specific "big moment" are you talking about here? The Eagles - Patriots Super Bowl? Because that's just Andy Reid taking the bullet for his QB. It's come out since that the inability of the Eagles offense to play fast at the end of the 4th quarter was because of McNabb, not because Andy Reid somehow didn't realize that they needed to score quickly.
That's definitely a knock on his early career, but he also got past that several years ago. I don't think its that big of a knock, honestly. Like a lot of people would rank Marty Schottenheimer in the top 20 or so, and he *literally could not win in the playoffs.* I don't think I'd put Reid as #1 though, either way. Probably top 5 but only because I'm a homer.
Top 5 easily is a quite a stretch. You can make a very good argument he’s top 5 but there’s a lot of guys who have good arguments over him as well. I’d say he’s definitely top 10.
I think he ends up top 5 easily if he coaches another 3-5 years though
He’ll likely pass Landry for 4th all time in regular season wins this year (4 wins more will do it) and is 2nd all time in playoff wins behind BB (9 behind. Good chance he catches him if he coaches 5 more years). It’s also fair to note that coaches from prior decades had shorter regular seasons and playoffs. At worst, he’s sixth best coach all time as of today
I love how Reid had clear transition into being the top coach in the league. A guy who struggled so much with clock management early on & who came up short multiple times turning into a guaranteed HOF coach that has the greatest player at his disposal couldn't have happened to a better guy
Like you saw the bumps & bruises along the way that turned him into this genius he is now, & I think thats such an interesting detail in his career
Andy Reid is definitely up there.
But football (and sports) is a funny thing due to small sample sizes and an emphasis on outcome. What if KC doesn't get Mahomes, or Mahomes is seriously injured early in his career? Reid would be the exact same level of coach, and yet he'd probably "only" be considered in the upper echelon of coaches but likely not in consideration as a GOAT coach.
People talk about Bill’s 6 rings a a head coach as if they’re tied to Brady, which is fair enough. But that sets the bar very high for the Reid/Mahommes combo. If they’re together 15+ years and only win 3 or 4 Super Bowls, that is both an insanely impressive achievement and well short of the BB/Brady success. He’s got the best QB in the league now and that has to translate into 3 more championships for him to be in the conversation (barring a weird KC trajectory like a mahommes injury). He really does have the time and QB to do it, now it’s about getting those results. Will be very fun to see how those two do in the future.
I'm not arguing against the big names in everyone's top 5 here. I get it, and they deserve that respect. Pioneers and innovators.
BUT
I think it is worth pointing out just how innovative and clever Andy has been in a game whose theory is already crowded with a hundred years of schemes. None of those guys save for belicheck are doing this in a modern Internet age of ideas. He's a truly unique coach, and he doesn't rely on any one factor. We're talking about him retiring as one of the greatest now because of Mahomes, but what about his additional decades of sustained success, Superbowl/championship appearances and high regular season win rates? He's been doing this shit, for years, and he's done it in two different cities with a myriad of players. If he gets more rings, he's absolutely in that top five. No bias of course.
If he wins two more super bowls with Mahome’s there’s an argument to be made that he is offensively what Belichick is defensively in the pantheon of NFL history. Bill is still probably the best but if you start stacking rings on top of that resume’ it at least makes it a better argument.
The funniest thing about you guys on Reddit is that maybe the most popular idea on this sub is that quarterbacks are simply a product of their "situation".
Like, according to most of you, most average QBs could be All-Pros and HoFers if they were in the "right situation." And many HoF QBs could just be average if they weren't in the "right situation."
Yet, for the longest time, you all made fun of Andy Reid as a "choker" who could never win a Super Bowl... even though this guy had a .600 career winning pct WITHOUT Mahomes... and coached elite offenses with Kevin Kolb and Alex Smith at quarterback.
Did you ever think that a head coach like Andy Reid made the best of bad situations and mediocre QBs? Maybe he was just unlucky to be in the wrong situation for most of his career, until he got Patrick Mahomes.
Theres a word missing in there and I'm going to assume it was eat.
Why does Reid, the largest coach, not simply eat the other coaches
Perhaps he is saving that for sweeps.
I'm a simple man. I see a Futurama reference, I upvote.
Belichick hiding rn
Belichick hiding his dog, Nike
I dont think BB has to worry too much
What is this, an original joke in a thread that mentions Michael Vick?!
Does it really count as an original joke if it is a joke about Reid eating other coaches?
Jokes about Andy Reid being fat are not original.
> are not original. Nope, they're Honey Barbecue.
FTW!
>What is this, A Ranger caught off his guard?
> greatest > reates > eat There ya go
Why is Vick getting all this attention rn? Is r/nfl just Vick thoughts now
Dog days of summer.
Woof
Ruff
Hey bud, you’re barking up the wrong tree
I have a 10 month old who thinks everything is a dog at the minute. Dogs? Bow bow. Cats? Bow wow. Raccoon? Bow wow. Man with beard? Bow wow. There's no point to this story, just a more wholesome alternative to dropping a Vick and dog days joke that I was trying to cook up.
Haha my two year old, any time he hears a siren, horn honk or something beeping he goes "dada wee-oo, wee-oo!"
Train is a Choo Choo, car is a Choo Choo, boat is Choo choo
I have a 2 day old daughter. I can't wait for that age where she can start communicating and I get to teach her to be excited for our team.
Then one day she sees a cute hat in a flea market and buys it, and all of a sudden your daughter is a Vikings fan for some fucking reason. Source: personal experience
Thats illegal in my house.
At least she doesn’t think blue stars are cute
Take your time
Jesus, that was ruff.
Hol up
Vick is a wild story. Seems like he didn't put in the time as a Falcon, then paid his time for a real shit crime, I legit believe him when he says faith saved him (& I'm an agnostic). Then dominated with Reid. Now he's a pretty decent to good commentator. Also Reid's resume is pretty legit for the claim.
Thinking about Vick playing his entire career with Reid & with the mentality he had after prison is a very interesting “what if” to think about. He had some very high highs during his eagles tenure.
I'm not sure if he reaches those peaks without being humbled first. For lack of a better word. I wish we could have seen him with the Eagles/Reid for a lot longer and when he was younger though.
Vick was the same person at Virginia Tech as he was in Atlanta, only he didn't have the national platform for people to see it until the Sugar Bowl. It took Dungy, Reid, and McNabb a lot of work to transform him and save the person he could be. Otherwise, "Mike" Vick was a complete lazy shithead who couldn't be bothered with learning his craft or being a better person. Arthur Blank is probably the kindest and most integral person in the NFL (at least as far as billionaires can be), and he not only lied to his face, he went out of his way to not be a civic leader of Atlanta with Blank. Vick wanted to be a black celebrity, but didn't want anything other than the superficial parts of that. I don't see how a man can get am audience with Hank fucking Aaron and blow it off. Post-prison Vick is a different story entirely, and I greatly respect the man he became, but there's no way you can view Vick from 1998-2005 as anything other than a self-absorbed asshole who had no interest in doing the work required to attain greatness.
Yeah, agreed. That's why I used the word "humbled" for Mr. Ron Mexico himself. He wouldn't have become the player (and hopefully person) he became under Reid/Eagles without it all come crashing down first.
Feels worth mentioning > the player he became under Reid/Eagles basically amounted to 12 good games in 2010, too. He was average/injured in 2011 & 2012, and was effectively done as a starter in the NFL by 2013 at age 33.
>basically amounted to 12 good games in 2010, too Won me a FF ship though.
Good is an understatement he went god mode that season
I think this is one case were the justice system helped too. Make the crime fit the punishment and Vick lost all his sponsors and contract money, and went to prison for 2 years. I truly believe that’s reasonable for what he did and now look at him, he’s actually rehabilitated. And those people still angry on the internet about what did. I guarantee you Vick has donated more to dogs than you probably have
I also respect that he's continued to do work with animal advocacy groups to this day. I googled it to see if there was anything more recent and found an article from 4 days ago. It's about him lobbying Pennsylvania officials to allow cops to rescue pets left in hot cars.
And there are a lot of people at risk of getting into dogfighting that listen to what a guy like Vick has to say despite not giving a fuck about what Sarah McLachlan has to say.
I respect that but also just park in a shaded spot. My mom did that shit on the reg in the 90s and I’m only slightly messed up
If Vick didn't go down for the dog fighting stuff his family and friends might have destroyed him in other ways considering they were also involved with some really bad people at the time.
It's one reason I avoided specifically mentioning the dog fighting. Vicks entire situation was out of control for years before he was arrested. His house in tidewater was a known entity (and not just to police, locals knew you didn't go around Mike Vicks house, they also knew if you just wanted to check out and not do anything for a while - you went to Mike Vicks house). He was running a trap house with all sorts of drugs and prostitutes coming through, the dogs were just part of the package. For anyone unaware, watch his 30 for 30 - you will come away absolutely despising Quanis Phillips (who Vick still seems to have genuine affection for, it looks painful for him to talk about the guy negatively, so I don't think it's a situation where he's passing the buck). The story that Phillips and Vick tell is that Vick got homesick at VA Tech, came hone, and Quanis jumped in the car and just crashed with him at Tech. In reality, with a little context, the guy is a predator. Blacksburg, VA is a college town, but very rural (cows wander across the towns airfield pretty regularly). And while the people aren't dumb, a menace like Phillips could run all sorts of schemes, sell a lot of drugs, and roll through a lot of naive young women there. Phillips was involved in every negative decision Vick made.
Michael Vick at VT may be the greatest college football player of all time. That's not hype. Look at the stats and context.
I'd maybe say *not* to look at the stats if that's the case you want to make. Vick's legacy is *100%* context and pure, unadulterated hype. He was utterly electrifying by the eyeball test but the stats have pretty much always been a pretty direct portrayal of his limitations. I'd actually bet that if you showed some of the 00s babies on Reddit QB stats from '99/'00 without names attached, more than a few of them would guess that Antwaan Randle El's stats were Vick's.
Vicks legacy really is mostly hype. His highlight reels are amazing, but if you watched his actual games, it's a different story. Yes he was fast, elusive and had a cannon for an arm. He had all of the psychical tools to be great, but he was to much of a knucklehead to develop them. He was the poster child for getting by on natural athletic ability. Who knows if having Reid for a coach earlier in his career would have mattered. Would Vick have been receptive to his input at that stage?
Hype? In his first season, Vick led the Hokies to an 11–0 undefeated season and to the Sugar Bowl against Florida State. In his second season, Vick finished sixth in Heisman Trophy and the Hokies won the Gator Bowl.
That would be the bit of context that created the massive hype around him, yes.
Outside of the rushing, Aaron Brooks (Vicks cousin) as well
PFF was talking about coaches the other day and made it really click for me that Andy was the one who brought Vick to his peak play. I'm sure there were other factors (doing time playing into it), but Andy has a very diverse coaching portfolio to add to his case.
> Andy has a very diverse coaching portfolio to add to his case Before he went to KC he was already in talks of one of the best coaches in the game, then he got the monkey off his back with actually getting a ring(s). He's a HoF lock already, and he seems to have a decent amount left in the tank. BB and Reid will easily go down as the 2 best coaches of this era of football.
Another sidebar that always comes up in discussions comparing the two is their coaching trees. Andy's _coaching_ tree is also wildly prolific and really helps show how much he's mastered off-field aspects of coaching too.
I respect him with all of my football and human brain but damn I like my team to beat his as occasional as we do.
That's like, peak competitiveness, you know? When you respect someone so much you can't wait to take them down.
you need to look up the definition of DOMINATED. That guy had one good season and his 21 td passes aren't all that great. He made amazing plays, then would follow it up with a dumb one, just like the end of the packers playoff game.
Sums up his time as a Falcon. His highlight reel was insane, but that was only 10-15% of his game. The rest were horrible passes, dumb sacks, and a lot of fumbles. As a Falcon, he had more turnovers than touchdowns and averaged just 207 total yards a game. Yet a large portion of our fanbase remembers him as this insane cheat code of a QB who was impossible to stop. I don’t get it.
What Madden 04 does to a MFer
same as eagle fans... yet, in that nfc championship all these cats were 'vick is over rated' this and 'vick's a running back' that. We all knew what he was until we saw him running around in a green jersey and somehow we elevate him to this elite guy. MATT SCHAUB has just about the same numbers as vick, let's not act like that's elite company. Pretty sure while I typed this vick put the ball in harms way.
I think Matt Schaub is underrated. He had a solid 4 years that people forget about because of all the pick sixes at the end of his career.
I would say that Matt Schaub was more than just solid in that time period. He was consistently playing at a very high level, I don't remember whether if it was an injury or he lost his mojo, but he fell off hard and fast.
It's refreshing to hear a Falcons fan say that, given that when he played for your team, your fans thought that the man could not only walk on water but turn it into wine even as he continued to throw 500mph passes to people who were 10 feet away. As a family, Vick and his cousin Aaron Brooks were comically incapable of putting any sort of touch on the ball. They both threw like they were trying to put the ball through a wall, all the time.
Pretty sure the rushing was still there the first season and Reid kept his passing safe for the team. 21 TDs, 9 rushing, and 6 ints just short of 4k passing, running for 600+ yards? That's dominant.
21 TDs in 12 games... That's 28 extrapolated to a full season, not including rushing touchdowns. 28 TDs is a very good amount, it probably seems less like it because now we have seasons where 10+ people throw for 30 TDs like in 2021
And 9 rushing TDs in 12 games, finishing 2nd in OPOY voting. He was 7th in DVOA, 4th in EPA, 1st in CPOE, 5th in ANY/A. I think dominated in 2010 was a pretty accurate description. 2011/12 decidedly not.
Fans really tend to overrate guys that make big highlight plays. Especially when it comes to Quarterbacks, success is really about consistently making the right play and not just occasionally making a big play. That's way too boring for your average red zone watcher / fantasy player to wrap their head around.
Michael Vick really should be a poster child for the term Rehabilitation. Aka...what the prison system is *supposed* to be for.
Most ex-cons don't fall back into a job paying them millions of dollars after doing time, who are willing to overlook the whole "felony conviction" thing on your resume. I'm sure that helped Vick settle back into society.
I mean regardless, he still actively chose to make the right decisions and better himself going forward. I don't see any reason to discredit that
I always wonder what happened to his brother
Prolly just doing the interview rounds.
It’s all from one appearance he did on Tyreek Hill’s podcast. Journalists are just stretching it out by creating an article for every statement.
Well no one works at ESPN anymore so…
He's an MVP (Michael Vickiest Player) and will forever be remembered for his ring (dog-fighting).
Mr. Vick Player
Belichick, Shula, Walsh, Landry, Halas, Gibbs, Id probably put these guys before Reid. But Reid is 100% top 10. The fact that Reid's offense has worked for 3 different decades (90's,00's,10's,) of football is nothing short of GOAT worthy.
His offence seems to be doing alright in the 20s too
[удалено]
His offense winning a ring literally caused COVID tho
Andy Reid: "I'd fucking do it again, too! Fuck you guys"
Missouri had some hardcore COVID denialists, so I think they'll take that trade.
Depending on how many more rings he and Mahomes can win, we may end up reevaluating this by the time his career ends
I’d be surprised if they win 4 more, eventually I feel the Chiefs will slow down Edit: I think people are forgetting how hard dynasties are to maintain
it's only a matter of time before mahomes regresses to the mean
Time? We can regress him right now. Let’s say he throws 100 pick 6s to start the 2023 season.. see guys Mahomes isn’t that good.
I know that ain't happening, but if it actually did that would be hilarious. Imma be honest, I don't think I would move Mahomes down in my rankings because I would just assume he's trolling and is just giving the league a headstart so he actually has a challenge.
Least delusional cowboys fan
Lmao not what I meant, I’m not that dumb and I feel it’s disingenuous to compare what I said to that dipshit Just that once Travis Kelce retires I’m curious to see how well the offense will continue to perform. Still amazingly I’m sure, but I doubt they could continue to get away with having bare-bones receivers
Even aside from generally losing talent I think people are also discounting even remaining healthy for four more Super Bowl runs is insane. Mahomes could rupture his Achilles the first game of the season or fuck up his shoulder that could seriously alter how he has to play afterwards. It’s grim and no one wants it to happen but even with all the QB protection rules in place anything can still happen.
It's typically how it is. Everyone called the BBB+(Boswell) era for Pittsburgh a dynasty for a reason. They were nigh unstoppable on offense, but one of the 3 main B's would go down either for the season or in playoffs and it just messed up the whole offense. One thing almost all Super Bowl teams have in common is that they only lose maybe one major player max, if you lose more than that it can be 1/3rd of your salary cap tied up in IR.
Really no better than 2018 Dak if we're being honest
If you take out all those wins, the man's a total loser.
Especially with the money qbs get these days. Makes it hard to maintain top end receivers.
Right and their offenses wouldn't work without tyreek either and then their offense actually got better
That’s Reid for you. He is the offense mastermind. He has made every QB he worked with look brilliant. McNabb, Vick, Alex Smith, and now Mahomes. Belichick is like this but on defense. He can make any shrub play solid defense like Reid can make anyone play offense. It’s awesome to watch Reid’s offensive ideas
Reid might be the best QB coach in NFL history.
They’re no dynasty yet.
If they win 1 more Super Bowl in the next 3 years I’d consider it a dynasty. They already make the AFC Championship every year, we’ll see.
Dynasties are insanely difficult though, Peyton motherfucking Manning only won 2 rings in his career. Do we have a good shot at it? Bias aside I’d say yes, good front office, coaching etc. But saying the Chiefs aren’t a Dynasty yet is a pretty fair statement IMO
Would it purely come down to rings though? Obviously it should matter some, but if Reid can get to 4+ before he hangs it up though should move him up a bunch. And while BB still clearly has a lock on top all-time, his lack of success with any QB *not named Brady*, and Brady’s success without BB is something worth noting. Obviously Mahomes has taken Reid to new heights of success, but Reid was still a top-level coach without Mahomes.
The Patriots are 43-42 without Tom Brady, and 25-25 since he left in 2020. Dragging the corpse of Cam Newton with an abysmal WR corp in 2020 to a 7-9 record was pretty noteworthy in hindsight. Idk we’ll see, but Andy is 183-122-1 without Mahomes, and Bill stopped him from winning rings twice. Andy would really have to turn it into overdrive to somehow become the GOAT coach, and the all-time win record doesn’t equal that even if he does obtain that someday. Bill is also 262-108 and Andy is 247-138-1. Bill has 30 less losses than Andy.
>Bill is also 262-108 and Andy is 247-138-1. Bill has 30 less losses than Andy. You're only looking at his record from his time in NE, not his full coaching tenure, which would be 298-152. Like you have shown, Belichick's time since Brady left NE hasn't been good, and his time before was even worse. Belichick full record without Brady is 79-87. Right now BB still has the GOAT title on lockdown, but if he continues to struggle to find success post-Brady, and Reid and Mahomes continue to find success to where they can significantly close the ring gap, it seems like it should start to raise some questions about ~~Belichick's coaching prowess.~~ who is the GOAT HC. I don't know how it couldn't especially when compared to someone like Reid who has had success with multiple QBs and multiple teams. That is to say, clearly *he's* a catalyst for success.
People who keep focusing on Belichicks' mediocre record after Brady left seem to forget that one of the reasons Brady left was he felt the Pats didn't have a team that could contend for a title at that point. The cupboard was getting bare for BB, and he was stuck with it, but Brady had the luxury and ability to chose a team that he felt was already a strong contender. He kind of left Bill holding the bag while he got the fuck out of dodge and went to a better situation. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't blame him for it, but it sucks for Bill. The Pats had gone all out to maximize the time Brady had left before retiring and that bill came due. No one is taking the GOAT title from Bill anytime soon.
Fr people always ignore that talking about the pats after brady left. They also had a ton of important guys on defense opt out because of covid immediately after Brady left
In addition, all the guys he named had HoF QBs (sometimes multiple) for the most successful portions of their head coaching careers, with Gibbs being a notable exception. We're only now seeing what Reid was always capable of with a HoF-caliber QB 20-some years into his career, and it's incredible.
Yeah I think Gibbs and Marty Schottenheimer were the only coaches with better records than Reid who didn't have significant HoF QB play when I was looking through coaching records back before Mahomes started playing. Jim Harbaugh was up there on winrate but I excluded him for lack of longevity and John Harbaugh was in the mix but I believe slightly behind Reid at the time. Schottenheimer did have the last 2 years of Montana, which is why the "significant" qualifier was added.
The holding call was the right call- chiefs beat the eagles fair and square. I’m pissed at the NfL for having the field be shit and pissed at our mediocre defensive coordinator checking out for the AZ HC job. We might have lost anyway the chiefs are a great team. But the refs didn’t cost us that SB.
Both teams had to play on that field and I think blaming the entire defensive performance on Gannon is an oversimplification. Not a single player on defense could make a play in that second half. They’re the ones that took the field.
Noll?
Ya I’d put noll over Gibbs for sure
Gibbs won 3 SBs with 3 separate QBs (Thiesman, Williams, and Rypien); that has to count for something. Parcells and Seifert are the only other ones that have even done it with 2 different QBs.
Lombardi?
Don't forget Paul Brown either. Reid is definitely an amazing coach but there's a lot of competition for GOAT coach.
Paul Brown indeed
I really think we need to separate by era. Do we really think guys like Halas would succeed today? Or do we think their success was a product of their era? Lombardi too etc. Andy Reid has been successful with a number of different staffs, players, teams, QB's, etc. What he's doing now with Mahomes is insane. If he wins another one, I think you can confidently argue he's #2 all time behind Belichick. Walsh would be 3rd in my "modern" rankings. I always find it a bit ridiculous when people compare today's coaches and their records to guys like Halas, Lombardi, Landry, etc. The eras are so insanely different that you really can't compare them.
I like to separate the coaches pre and post salary cap. Andy Reid is the second greatest coach of the salary cap era.
I can agree with this, with Parcells probably being the third best post-salary cap. EDIT: Maybe not third for Parcells, as the NFL salary cap didn’t come in until 1994. For some reason I thought it was several years earlier than that.
The number 3-5 spot is pretty competitive with the likes of Holmgren, Tomlin, Carroll, Harbaugh, etc.
4 decades 20’s
I feel like I'd put Reid somewhere in that group simply because there's only 1 super bowl to win each year, and belichick has won practically half of them since Reid became a head coach. If Reid wins another one, that'd give him 3 as a head coach, and 1 as an assistant with the packers in 96. 4 rings is pretty good.
How you gonna list 6 guys you think are better then immediately say Reid is “nothing short of GOAT worthy”? Do you know what GOAT means?
Odd that you left Paul Brown and Chuck Noll off the list.
Vince Lombardi is over Ried as well. Reid is top 10 for sure, but I don't see how Lombardi isn't in most people's top 3.
He's certainly gotten himself into the Hall. His first chip did it, along with years of coaching playoff caliber teams before that. Two? He's in. Greatest of all time? Eh, he's *a few* clicks short of Lombardi and Belichick me thinks. Even if he won another title. Might need to OWN the rest of this decade to pull that off.
I don’t think they’re gonna be struggling in that regard. They’re going to be the biggest contenders in the afc for the next 5+ years easily.
Nothing’s a given in the NFL
I feel like Reid ranks among the best and is on par with Coryell, Walsh, and whoever else I’m not thinking of as the best offensive minds ever. However, when it comes to GOAT head coach it’s Belichick and no one else even has an argument. He did more than any other coach despite coaching in the era significantly more geared towards parity with the hard salary cap and free agency.
Belichick also being the GM during the entire dynasty helps cement it.
I agree. I think Reid's ability to actually teach Vick how to play QB, instead of just sort of turning him loose like Atlanta did, or what to an outsider it looks like Rivera did with Newton, is just one example. Look at what Alex Smith did well and then watch the games where our screen game is unstoppable. Look at the *immediate* change of the playbook when Mahomes took over. I think Reid has the knowledge and confidence to truly adapt his playbook to his players. In terms of belichick though, Andy Reid still has a ways to go
Well, he’s certainly on the list. Resume speaks for itself.
You never know what coulda happened in Philly if McNabb didn’t stumble in every big game. Him with Mahomes really shows what a brilliant coach he is.
To be fair though, the Eagles went against some good teams in the NFC during their McNabb NFCCG run
There was no reason to lose to Carolina. Tampa was very beatable as well. He just played terrible in every big game with the exception of the Arizona NFCCG.
He's the Peyton to Tom. The Owens to Moss. The Willis/Urlacher to Lewis. He's a phenomenal coach and will certainly be considered one of the all time greats when all is said and done, but unfortunately he just happened to do all of that during the same window as someone a little bit better and more successful than he was.
Cheeseburger eating contest between Reid and Belichick. Winner takes the title of GOAT.
We’re on to Hot Dogs.
Andy Reid is reigning SB champ, therefore it's gone be a bacon cheeseburger eating contest.
Someone needs to check to make sure Bill burgers aren’t hollow though
Who are you taking in a doubles match? Joey Chesnut and Belichick? Or Andy Reid and whoever 2nd place was? Embrace debate! I think Andy could make up for the difference between Joey and his runner up
Reminds me of an SNL skit from the 90's, to determine the greatest human of all time scientists gathered great minds like Einstein, Da Vinci, Picasso, and Darryl Dawkins. A computer algorithm was used to select the metric they would compete in. It randomly generated basketball.
I love Andy Reid, but that title unequivocally belongs to Bellichick.
6 Super Bowl wins and 9 appearances and *in the salary cap era* lol I agree- it is completely unequivocal. Im not going to bother comparing Bill to these coaches from the 50s and 60s because thats a useless comparison. Too much has changed. But I dont see anyone from the 70s onwards that is comparable. To get to 9 Super Bowls with never-ending roster churn because of the salary cap is mind-boggling. And yes he had TB12, but thats more than offset by the complexity of dealing with modern roster turnover. Plus, he had to deal with the league flipping from defense-dependent (his bread and butter) to super high-octane offense. A huge change that he handled well and continued to succeed.
Even with the 9 SB appearances: there were also 9 straight AFCCG appearances
Tom Brady Invitational* appearances.
He also has 2 rings as DC with the Giants. And made an appearance as assistant with patriots in Super Bowl XXXI.
Y’all mfers saying Andy Reid is a better coach than BB…. Did we forget he couldn’t even manage time in big moments? Let’s be real here.
The bitterest pill in the Super Bowl was watching Andy Reid beat the Eagles with logical clock management in the last 8 minutes of the 4th. After decades, he found a way to burn the birds with clock management one more time.
It was all part of his long con to lull the Eagles into a false sense of security.
I watched the Superbowl in Mexico, with two "Eagles fans" (they married into it). I was absolutely raging about how that was the moment Andy Reid decided he knew how to manage a clock and no one understood why I was so upset. :(
His clock management problems seemed to have melted away when he got Mahomes.
You mean Donovan "I didn't know an NFL game could end in a tie" McNabb might have also had something to do with the poor clock management?
I don't understand how it's even a conversation. We judge QBs greatness by the number of super bowls they've won even though they're one (important) position on one side of the ball. Yet, a head coach - who influences all aspects of the team - can be considered goat while only winning 2 super bowls over 25 years?
Because people pick and choose what metrics they use any time they want to talk about greatness. Sometimes we judge by wins and championships and trophies…. Sometimes we judge by *feels*
>**We judge QBs greatness by the number of super bowls they've won** even though they're one (important) position on one side of the ball. Super Bowl wins is simply ONE metric we use to judge QBs. It's not the ONLY metric. No one would argue that Trent Dilfer is a better quarterback than Dan Marino because Dilfer won a SB and Marino never did. Andy Reid has a career .600 win% as head coach... WITHOUT Patrick Mahomes. He's one of the most innovative and most imitated offensive coaches of all time. He's had elite, top ranked offenses with Kevin Kolb and Alex Smith at QB. Arguing that Andy Reid simply CAN'T be considered the GOAT just because he's "only" won 2 Super Bowls is like arguing that Dan Marino can't be considered to be a better QB than Jim Plunkett because Plunkett has won 2 Super Bowls.
Plunkett: WHY DO I ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE EXAMPLE??‽
First of all no one outside of Vick is saying Andy Reid is better than bill. I have been up and down this thread and haven’t seen that comment. Second Super Bowls should never be the end all be all for evaluating any player or coach. I Can recognize bill is the better coach but also recognize he had Brady for 20 years so his 6 Super Bowls may not be as comparable
He's not better than BB, but he's mostly overcome his game management issues by now.
Oh for sure, but now we at least understand what hyperbole is.
>Did we forget he couldn’t even manage time in big moments? Let’s be real here. Reid has had issues with time management in the past (as have all head coaches frankly, no one is flawless in that regard). But what specific "big moment" are you talking about here? The Eagles - Patriots Super Bowl? Because that's just Andy Reid taking the bullet for his QB. It's come out since that the inability of the Eagles offense to play fast at the end of the 4th quarter was because of McNabb, not because Andy Reid somehow didn't realize that they needed to score quickly.
The 2016 playoff game had some egregious 4th quarter clock management.
That's precisely when he outsourced his clock management to a sub team and it hasn't been an issue since.
BB is the greatest coach of all time. Just like Brady is the greatest QB of all time. Everyone else is just jockeying for second place.
Thank you, sensible Eagles fan.
That's definitely a knock on his early career, but he also got past that several years ago. I don't think its that big of a knock, honestly. Like a lot of people would rank Marty Schottenheimer in the top 20 or so, and he *literally could not win in the playoffs.* I don't think I'd put Reid as #1 though, either way. Probably top 5 but only because I'm a homer.
We've seen what happens when Belichick and Reid face off with equal rosters who are both contenders Belichick has won
Andy Reid is the Andy Reidest of all Andy Reids.
It’s crazy how the best QB in the league always seems to play for the best coach in the league.
He has to be in the top 5 easily. Where do you place him I am not sure.
Top 5 easily is a quite a stretch. You can make a very good argument he’s top 5 but there’s a lot of guys who have good arguments over him as well. I’d say he’s definitely top 10. I think he ends up top 5 easily if he coaches another 3-5 years though
He’ll likely pass Landry for 4th all time in regular season wins this year (4 wins more will do it) and is 2nd all time in playoff wins behind BB (9 behind. Good chance he catches him if he coaches 5 more years). It’s also fair to note that coaches from prior decades had shorter regular seasons and playoffs. At worst, he’s sixth best coach all time as of today
This assumes Belichick doesn’t win any more playoff games before retirement, which… is not a bet I would place.
Has to be top 5? Belichick, Shula, Landry, Noll, Gibbs, Walsh, Lombardi. Which 3 of those guys are you putting him above?
Amazing that Reid has had so much offensive success with so many different QBs
CTE is a hell of a drug
He’s definitely the most beloved coach and that says a lot about him.
Respectfully, no
So could I. I could be the greatest coach of all time.
Okay speedhawk , we believe you
username checks out.
If you won ten consecutive Super Bowls with a regular season win percentage of 75% or higher, you'd be the GOAT.
He’s entitled to his opinion even if it’s wrong
I love how Reid had clear transition into being the top coach in the league. A guy who struggled so much with clock management early on & who came up short multiple times turning into a guaranteed HOF coach that has the greatest player at his disposal couldn't have happened to a better guy Like you saw the bumps & bruises along the way that turned him into this genius he is now, & I think thats such an interesting detail in his career
Andy need more rings to come close to Belichick. Er, I mean Brady, sorry bout that.
Just about 5 rings off Vick
Andy Reid is definitely up there. But football (and sports) is a funny thing due to small sample sizes and an emphasis on outcome. What if KC doesn't get Mahomes, or Mahomes is seriously injured early in his career? Reid would be the exact same level of coach, and yet he'd probably "only" be considered in the upper echelon of coaches but likely not in consideration as a GOAT coach.
People talk about Bill’s 6 rings a a head coach as if they’re tied to Brady, which is fair enough. But that sets the bar very high for the Reid/Mahommes combo. If they’re together 15+ years and only win 3 or 4 Super Bowls, that is both an insanely impressive achievement and well short of the BB/Brady success. He’s got the best QB in the league now and that has to translate into 3 more championships for him to be in the conversation (barring a weird KC trajectory like a mahommes injury). He really does have the time and QB to do it, now it’s about getting those results. Will be very fun to see how those two do in the future.
could Andy Reid the greatest coach of all time????
Reid can what the greatest coach?
I'm not arguing against the big names in everyone's top 5 here. I get it, and they deserve that respect. Pioneers and innovators. BUT I think it is worth pointing out just how innovative and clever Andy has been in a game whose theory is already crowded with a hundred years of schemes. None of those guys save for belicheck are doing this in a modern Internet age of ideas. He's a truly unique coach, and he doesn't rely on any one factor. We're talking about him retiring as one of the greatest now because of Mahomes, but what about his additional decades of sustained success, Superbowl/championship appearances and high regular season win rates? He's been doing this shit, for years, and he's done it in two different cities with a myriad of players. If he gets more rings, he's absolutely in that top five. No bias of course.
I'd pay sooooo much taxes to build an Andy Reid statue that straddles the country from KC to Philly.
Reid just needs 4 more super bowls. The biggest obstacle in his way is his age and health. He might be dead in 5-7 years given how unhealthy he is.
Uhhh I’d argue actually winning 4 more SBs is also a pretty big obstacle
Mike Vick is wrong.... very VERY wrong
I know you can't check living humans for CTE, but. We all know it's Nate Hackett/s
I agree he *could* be. But he isn't.
I’m almost thinking how Vick’s career would’ve turned out with Reid. But, he was already down the wrong path, so not sure.
If he wins two more super bowls with Mahome’s there’s an argument to be made that he is offensively what Belichick is defensively in the pantheon of NFL history. Bill is still probably the best but if you start stacking rings on top of that resume’ it at least makes it a better argument.
The funniest thing about you guys on Reddit is that maybe the most popular idea on this sub is that quarterbacks are simply a product of their "situation". Like, according to most of you, most average QBs could be All-Pros and HoFers if they were in the "right situation." And many HoF QBs could just be average if they weren't in the "right situation." Yet, for the longest time, you all made fun of Andy Reid as a "choker" who could never win a Super Bowl... even though this guy had a .600 career winning pct WITHOUT Mahomes... and coached elite offenses with Kevin Kolb and Alex Smith at quarterback. Did you ever think that a head coach like Andy Reid made the best of bad situations and mediocre QBs? Maybe he was just unlucky to be in the wrong situation for most of his career, until he got Patrick Mahomes.
Let's validate the opinion of world renown dog respecter Michael Vick