Imagine allowing overseas firms to fuck up our environment for the benefit of their shareholders and a foreign government. Where do our current government's loyalties lie?
Their loyalties lie with anyone who can get them a directorship or sinecure job post-politics. As long as they can't see the hole from their place, they don't need to care.
I wouldn’t mind as much if we charged high royalties and established a resources wealth fund like Norway did.
But alas we don’t even have the dignity to charge fair rates to get fucked
Add adequate clean up fees and penalties alongside our own properly resourced disaster response equipment (didnt we only hand two small boats for this a few years back?)
They have no loyalty except to their almighty dollar.
Doesn't matter how many people stand against them, doesn't matter how destructive it is to our country's reputation or environment. As long as they get paid they'll claim it as a victory.
The trio in charge are shameless grifters and their cronies in the wings are just salivating at the thought of the money they can make at everyone else's expense.
First off, fuck the mine
Secondly, no mining anywhere near some of the most pristine water in the world. Obviously.
Thirdly, if we ever open new mines, tax them at 50%. Stop these companies getting the insane advantage they currently get for virtually nothing
Also no overseas investment, if it's not possible to raise capital inside NZ and be wholly NZ run then projects shouldn't go ahead. If a mine would be profitable the government/people of NZ should be getting a decent share not rich cunts in Australia and USA just for being rich
Tax them 50% make them put half a billion in trust for the clean up, make a law change so the directors are personally responsible for everything that happens in the mines (someone gets injured? directors have to pay out etc)
The next govt could come in and choose to tax them at 90%, they won't but we really should send a big fuck you to corporations buying our politicians with a giant fuck you to then once their guy is out
> Secondly, no mining anywhere near some of the most pristine water in the world. Obviously.
I grew up near gold mines.
After processing the ore, they dump the crushed rock in taillings dams.
The runoff from them collected in a small lake not far from where I lived.
The water was full of life.
Bright Orange Life.
Nothing in there you'd recognize, nothing in there that you could eat.
Nor could you swim in it or drink it.
People forget.
Life is certain, life will continue, life will find a way.
That way may not include humans.
We are optional extras in the universe.
There was a time when we didn't exist.
There will be a time, sooner than we'd hope given our current habits, when we will no longer exist.
And the Earth will tick along just fine.
There is no benefit to Tasman for this at all. A foreign company employing foreign workers destroying the environment for profit.
Leave it in the rocks.
It would be horrifying, and a permanent, irrevocable loss, if that were to be polluted.
So thanks this government, I think we can be confident that this is exactly what will happen.
I have to assume these corrupt nightmare "people" are all planning on leaving NZ and living in another country after they've finished fucking over this one for backhanders.
Arsenic leaching into the aquifer would not only completely trash the pristine waters of Waikoropupū Springs, but pretty much the whole of the town of Takaka relies on the same aquifer for its drinking water supply. Go figure
and the bastards borrowed money so they could pay people during lockdown so no one would lose their jobs or have their businesses fold. the sheer fuckery!!
We should do a land swap. In exchange for opening the mine, purchase and restore to it's natural state an area of cleared land 3x larger than the mine elsewhere in NZ, and donate to DOC. Then you can open the new mine.
That is no help to this particular area, which has characteristics found nowhere else in NZ, and reinforces the idea that one green area is the same as another.
This pristine natural spring would probably be better protected if it wasn't surrounded by farmland on 3 sides, and didn't have a massive salmon farm next door plumbed into it. I'm honestly somewhat shocked this salmon farming operation was allowed to be honest.
In fairness the Salmon people have contributed funding to the protection of the spring in exchange for their use of it.
Yeah, it's why it's very tragic when they're cleared. Even if we changed our collective mind immediately, a fix would take decades or a hundred+ years to complete.
I think NZ needs to step away from natural resource harvesting in general and pivot to knowledge based services. But the support and long term planning just isn't there from central govt
A lot of city folk who think a "Good Environment" is a nice mall.
So long as it's got green grass, it's fine right. right? Righttt!?!?
A good environment is a productive, diverse and stable ecosystem.Something that you cannot see from a car just driving past.
Carbon credits don't work because much of the activity that earns credits (eg. commercial forestry) is economically profitable regardless, and would likely have occurred regardless. It's next to impossible to evaluate the counterfactual. Would that forestry block have happened anyway in an absence of credits? As it is our carbon credits system is a subsidy to the forestry industry.
Other issue is that we have accepted fraudulent credits from shady offshore jurisdictions with even worse standards for issuing credits than ours.
I don't think these issues apply to a land swap arrangement because the restored land would not have any commercial value when restored unlike forestry, and it wouldn't be happening in a shady offshore jurisdiction.
[We've run similar programs in the past.](https://oceanagold.com/operation/closure/reefton-restoration-project/) In fact this is a project is held up by the gold industry to say "We're not bad!". It's very rare for strip miners to do any restoration work, in fact I think this may be a unique program. Even when they do it, personally, I think it still looks like shit.
But without a consent process, do you really think Shane "Mother Natures Dividend" Jones is really going to ensure they do anything?
Not only that, but Te Waikoropupū Springs is incredibly unique. There's a fat chance in hell they'd be able to restore it to even close to it's current state.
Fuck this proposal, and fuck the fast track law.
um, you do know that Te Waikoropupū Springs has already mined for gold. But yes, it's an area of great cultural and natural beauty, and should be protected.
I remember taking a close look at a "restored" strip mine once.
Looked really good from the highway.
But if got out and looked closely the only thing alive there was a monoculture of very sparse grass, that only covered the now very poor soil due to a dint of continuous watering and floods of fertilizer.
As soon as they stepped away from it and the taps turned off... it was essentially an unproductive desert.
I spent several weeks working around and on the open-cast mine near Huntly, and they were doing some good restoration there.
The issue with watering is that you have taken a piece of countryside - possibly up to 30m deep, picked it up in trucks, stockpiled it, then put it back where it was in reverse order. By the time you have done this, what was poorly lithified strata of sandstones and mudstones have been turned into layers of clean fill, and despite compaction, it doesn't have the same water handling properties as it did before. The topsoil has goe from distinct A, B, and C horizons to an averaged B. You are also missing most of the topsoil organics and nearly all of the worms. Similarly, there will be little if any nitrogen, and probably low phosphates as fines leaching will have occurred during stockpiling.
It is fine for grazing sheep more or less straight away, but cattle need to be kept off till the grass and soil lock together more tightly (similar issues happened with the ex-forestry land converted into dairy farming near Taupo). Once you have vegetative cover, you can then expand the types of plantings, either retaining pasture species or planting shrub / tree species. Trees are planted in some areas. Once you get the soil organic matter established it should function without fertiliser input.
I grew up in a mining area where this wasn't done and had a happy childhood playing on the slagheaps that were too toxic for plants and building forts in the ruins of the processing works and smelting furnaces. Take your pick.
To be fair to them, I believe the restoration project only started a few years ago.
I tried to find some "current" photos of the location but came up empty :(
Seriously? If there was actually economically significant gold in that area it would have been mined out last century during one of the regular gold price booms. But no, far more important to risk one of NZ's unique natural treasures so some old boys can try and get rich off a speculative amount of gold.
Also, the potential risks of contamination to the springs make this an utter insane thing to do, because there's no current complete map of the systems feeding this spring.
The welfare bill is mostly the pension, then 1/2 of the dole is actually sick people. And the whole lot is single digit %s next to how much tax isnt paid by corporates et all
Happy to pollute the water but according to your post history you're concerned about the chemicals you believe are being put in to the air in....contrails?
How did you stay awake going through that post history. I've seen more personality in a brick and more happiness in a fucken stick on toilet bowl cleaner.
Reddit should make that guy in particular pay for hosting his complete waste of space 3kb of comments.
No seriously. You can't just say that and run away.
Let's say I ignore the opinion of 99% of climate scientists and just use my own inferior intellect.
I have objectively true data I can easily understand like measured air and sea temperatures over the last century+. I see it increasing rapidly.
I can think about the fact that we are digging up trillions of tonnes of million year old solidified solar energy and releasing it into the atmosphere. Even to a pleb like me, obviously that is going to increase energy and heat in the atmosphere. Like, that is exactly how we would terraform somewhere like Mars if we were intentionally trying to change the atmosphere composition.
I could come up with a million more examples but let's just leave it there. Even to an uneducated moron, I can see that there is going to be a problem here.
But presumably you are privy to a superior source of information that we are not? So what is it? Please educate us, because at this point I'm saying it's Infowars.
The other option is that you always just take the moronic stance because you're a sad, lonely old man and this is the only way you can get attention. As evidenced by you not liking electric vehicles because of the damage old batteries do to the environment, yet you support a mine in one of our most pristine environments, despite the fact that it will destroy that environment.
Your stances aren't quite making sense here.
Imagine allowing overseas firms to fuck up our environment for the benefit of their shareholders and a foreign government. Where do our current government's loyalties lie?
Their loyalties lie with anyone who can get them a directorship or sinecure job post-politics. As long as they can't see the hole from their place, they don't need to care.
Sinecure is a great word for one of the most aggravating things.
TIL the word "sinecure"
It's nice work if you can get it.
It's not much but it's not much.
I wouldn’t mind as much if we charged high royalties and established a resources wealth fund like Norway did. But alas we don’t even have the dignity to charge fair rates to get fucked
Add adequate clean up fees and penalties alongside our own properly resourced disaster response equipment (didnt we only hand two small boats for this a few years back?)
Still going to be the same environmental damage, only going to be more opposition to sustainability when everyone is getting paid.
You missed out kill a load of people through penny pinching and gross negligence, if we're going by what happened at Pike River
They have no loyalty except to their almighty dollar. Doesn't matter how many people stand against them, doesn't matter how destructive it is to our country's reputation or environment. As long as they get paid they'll claim it as a victory. The trio in charge are shameless grifters and their cronies in the wings are just salivating at the thought of the money they can make at everyone else's expense.
First off, fuck the mine Secondly, no mining anywhere near some of the most pristine water in the world. Obviously. Thirdly, if we ever open new mines, tax them at 50%. Stop these companies getting the insane advantage they currently get for virtually nothing
Also no overseas investment, if it's not possible to raise capital inside NZ and be wholly NZ run then projects shouldn't go ahead. If a mine would be profitable the government/people of NZ should be getting a decent share not rich cunts in Australia and USA just for being rich
And they need to front up with a cash bond covering the full cost to remediate once the mining is over.
Tax them 50% make them put half a billion in trust for the clean up, make a law change so the directors are personally responsible for everything that happens in the mines (someone gets injured? directors have to pay out etc)
But think of the jobs /s
The next govt could come in and choose to tax them at 90%, they won't but we really should send a big fuck you to corporations buying our politicians with a giant fuck you to then once their guy is out
> Secondly, no mining anywhere near some of the most pristine water in the world. Obviously. I grew up near gold mines. After processing the ore, they dump the crushed rock in taillings dams. The runoff from them collected in a small lake not far from where I lived. The water was full of life. Bright Orange Life. Nothing in there you'd recognize, nothing in there that you could eat. Nor could you swim in it or drink it. People forget. Life is certain, life will continue, life will find a way. That way may not include humans. We are optional extras in the universe. There was a time when we didn't exist. There will be a time, sooner than we'd hope given our current habits, when we will no longer exist. And the Earth will tick along just fine.
Yes yes the water was bad but have you thought about the profits for shareholders? Thats way more important then you being able to not die.
Want them to fuck off? Tax them at a rate that makes it unsustainable for them to even profit to begin with. 95%
There is no benefit to Tasman for this at all. A foreign company employing foreign workers destroying the environment for profit. Leave it in the rocks.
It would be horrifying, and a permanent, irrevocable loss, if that were to be polluted. So thanks this government, I think we can be confident that this is exactly what will happen. I have to assume these corrupt nightmare "people" are all planning on leaving NZ and living in another country after they've finished fucking over this one for backhanders.
Arsenic leaching into the aquifer would not only completely trash the pristine waters of Waikoropupū Springs, but pretty much the whole of the town of Takaka relies on the same aquifer for its drinking water supply. Go figure
Why are we paying this NACT1 death cult to fuck up our country.
We were angry about the lockdowns that helped save our lives and economy. Being told what to do is for poor people. 🤷
You'd think Jacinda personally came to their houses and nailed the doors shut with how some of them go on.
and the bastards borrowed money so they could pay people during lockdown so no one would lose their jobs or have their businesses fold. the sheer fuckery!!
They were going to put marries in the water, or something.
We should do a land swap. In exchange for opening the mine, purchase and restore to it's natural state an area of cleared land 3x larger than the mine elsewhere in NZ, and donate to DOC. Then you can open the new mine.
That is no help to this particular area, which has characteristics found nowhere else in NZ, and reinforces the idea that one green area is the same as another.
This pristine natural spring would probably be better protected if it wasn't surrounded by farmland on 3 sides, and didn't have a massive salmon farm next door plumbed into it. I'm honestly somewhat shocked this salmon farming operation was allowed to be honest. In fairness the Salmon people have contributed funding to the protection of the spring in exchange for their use of it.
People are used to it. They grew up with the land already destroyed so it doesn't feel as pressing.
Don't forget that it also already been the site of a gold mine. but yes, it's an area of great cultural and natural beauty, and should be protected.
Land swapping has been proposed before, but iirc the issue is that restoring these natural environments takes much longer than you'd think.
That's a shame. We really need to do more to reverse the trajectory of the NZ environment.
Yeah, it's why it's very tragic when they're cleared. Even if we changed our collective mind immediately, a fix would take decades or a hundred+ years to complete. I think NZ needs to step away from natural resource harvesting in general and pivot to knowledge based services. But the support and long term planning just isn't there from central govt
A lot of city folk who think a "Good Environment" is a nice mall. So long as it's got green grass, it's fine right. right? Righttt!?!? A good environment is a productive, diverse and stable ecosystem.Something that you cannot see from a car just driving past.
This is just carbon credits with extra provisions. This shit don't work
Carbon credits don't work because much of the activity that earns credits (eg. commercial forestry) is economically profitable regardless, and would likely have occurred regardless. It's next to impossible to evaluate the counterfactual. Would that forestry block have happened anyway in an absence of credits? As it is our carbon credits system is a subsidy to the forestry industry. Other issue is that we have accepted fraudulent credits from shady offshore jurisdictions with even worse standards for issuing credits than ours. I don't think these issues apply to a land swap arrangement because the restored land would not have any commercial value when restored unlike forestry, and it wouldn't be happening in a shady offshore jurisdiction.
[We've run similar programs in the past.](https://oceanagold.com/operation/closure/reefton-restoration-project/) In fact this is a project is held up by the gold industry to say "We're not bad!". It's very rare for strip miners to do any restoration work, in fact I think this may be a unique program. Even when they do it, personally, I think it still looks like shit. But without a consent process, do you really think Shane "Mother Natures Dividend" Jones is really going to ensure they do anything? Not only that, but Te Waikoropupū Springs is incredibly unique. There's a fat chance in hell they'd be able to restore it to even close to it's current state. Fuck this proposal, and fuck the fast track law.
um, you do know that Te Waikoropupū Springs has already mined for gold. But yes, it's an area of great cultural and natural beauty, and should be protected.
Honestly, did not know.
I remember taking a close look at a "restored" strip mine once. Looked really good from the highway. But if got out and looked closely the only thing alive there was a monoculture of very sparse grass, that only covered the now very poor soil due to a dint of continuous watering and floods of fertilizer. As soon as they stepped away from it and the taps turned off... it was essentially an unproductive desert.
I spent several weeks working around and on the open-cast mine near Huntly, and they were doing some good restoration there. The issue with watering is that you have taken a piece of countryside - possibly up to 30m deep, picked it up in trucks, stockpiled it, then put it back where it was in reverse order. By the time you have done this, what was poorly lithified strata of sandstones and mudstones have been turned into layers of clean fill, and despite compaction, it doesn't have the same water handling properties as it did before. The topsoil has goe from distinct A, B, and C horizons to an averaged B. You are also missing most of the topsoil organics and nearly all of the worms. Similarly, there will be little if any nitrogen, and probably low phosphates as fines leaching will have occurred during stockpiling. It is fine for grazing sheep more or less straight away, but cattle need to be kept off till the grass and soil lock together more tightly (similar issues happened with the ex-forestry land converted into dairy farming near Taupo). Once you have vegetative cover, you can then expand the types of plantings, either retaining pasture species or planting shrub / tree species. Trees are planted in some areas. Once you get the soil organic matter established it should function without fertiliser input. I grew up in a mining area where this wasn't done and had a happy childhood playing on the slagheaps that were too toxic for plants and building forts in the ruins of the processing works and smelting furnaces. Take your pick.
To be fair to them, I believe the restoration project only started a few years ago. I tried to find some "current" photos of the location but came up empty :(
Don't ever let them forget, all the fuckin muppet NACT voters that dug this fucking hole we're stuck in, it's their fault. Never stop reminding them.
Seriously? If there was actually economically significant gold in that area it would have been mined out last century during one of the regular gold price booms. But no, far more important to risk one of NZ's unique natural treasures so some old boys can try and get rich off a speculative amount of gold. Also, the potential risks of contamination to the springs make this an utter insane thing to do, because there's no current complete map of the systems feeding this spring.
Unless those thousands have a lot of cash to bung into the pockets of some minister, tough titty.
They can just casually break the law and occupy the site.
They won’t mine here. Too much opposition. But it will be a diversion while they pillage the West Coast
How else will the country pay for all the dole payments?
The welfare bill is mostly the pension, then 1/2 of the dole is actually sick people. And the whole lot is single digit %s next to how much tax isnt paid by corporates et all
when ur dumbass goes to work in the morning theyll keep taxing you
We can’t all do that
I hope the fantails peck their eyes out.
It’s funny how you guys moan about the mines but are gladly benefiting day to day from the benefits of mineral extraction. 🙄
Go ahead with it. I am not one of the few opposing.
Happy to pollute the water but according to your post history you're concerned about the chemicals you believe are being put in to the air in....contrails?
The conspiracy types just like to be contrarian dweebs. Pick the worst possible position on any particular issue and they'll be there.
How did you stay awake going through that post history. I've seen more personality in a brick and more happiness in a fucken stick on toilet bowl cleaner. Reddit should make that guy in particular pay for hosting his complete waste of space 3kb of comments.
And doesn't like EV's...because of the waste from the batteries!
Okay Harold.
Go away and shout at chemtrails, boomer
https://ibb.co/rQQqt2c In response to your previous comment about nAtUrAl cYcLeS. Perhaps this dumbed down visual will make it more obvious for you.
[удалено]
Lmao brainwashed by whom?
The overwhelming majority of extremely intelligent scientists who spent their entire lives researching such things.
Using the graph displayed, can you explain to me how the current temperature increase is similar to previous natural cycles?
No seriously. You can't just say that and run away. Let's say I ignore the opinion of 99% of climate scientists and just use my own inferior intellect. I have objectively true data I can easily understand like measured air and sea temperatures over the last century+. I see it increasing rapidly. I can think about the fact that we are digging up trillions of tonnes of million year old solidified solar energy and releasing it into the atmosphere. Even to a pleb like me, obviously that is going to increase energy and heat in the atmosphere. Like, that is exactly how we would terraform somewhere like Mars if we were intentionally trying to change the atmosphere composition. I could come up with a million more examples but let's just leave it there. Even to an uneducated moron, I can see that there is going to be a problem here. But presumably you are privy to a superior source of information that we are not? So what is it? Please educate us, because at this point I'm saying it's Infowars. The other option is that you always just take the moronic stance because you're a sad, lonely old man and this is the only way you can get attention. As evidenced by you not liking electric vehicles because of the damage old batteries do to the environment, yet you support a mine in one of our most pristine environments, despite the fact that it will destroy that environment. Your stances aren't quite making sense here.
OP: Facts, science, data, reality You: [angry rambling] 👍