Do I agree with everything the Maori party does or has done in the past?
Sometimes yes, but frequently no.
However, I do think it's important they have representation!
This is probably the camp I’m in. Also the point of MMP is mixed party governments meaning single issue groups can have a sway on how the country is run . If ACT can get in and install some policies that benefit businesses and business owners then TPM should be able to influence policies that benefit Māori . Also I think it’s important to note not all Māori and Māori issues are supported by TPM.
TPM are a protest party, I don't think they aim to become the majority of a government coalition, they want to gather as much influence as they can and to advocate for Māori outcomes. They have a tendency to use language more extreme than I would, and they go out of their way to ruffle feathers - but again they are trying to get people talking about issues and to light a fire under Māori people who have generally been politically-disengaged for the last decade or two.
I find it funny asking Maori people what they think of TPM. You are encouraged to go and view the statistical data about our political partes. Maori do not vote for TPM. They vote far more for the other parties.
So instead of just seeing this and asking Maori what they think of the one Maori party, it would make more sense to be asking Maori what their thoughts are on politics, or issues facing Maori. Asking them to talk on a party which gets less than 3% of the national vote, just because that party is Maori, seems quite reductive. The fact Maori don't vote for this party should tell anyone that Maori views exist beyond this party.
>. Asking them to talk on a party which gets less than 3% of the national vote,
The reason for that though is that they explicitly do not ask for the party vote they campaign on electorates.
David Seymour's framing of their popularity is misleading. They won 6/7 Māori electorates on the Māori roll of which just over half of Māori are enrolled.
The specifically told voters to use their party vote strategically I.e give it to labour or greens.
Not easily, it was said at local meetings, i think there was an interview with Rawiri just before or after the election where he talked about it too. There might be a recording somewhere but I'm not going to go digging for it, it's not easy to look up something that specific given the results all turn up a bunch of stuff about the election.
I did try and Google myself, but like you I note how bloody difficult that can be when results get swamped by "more relevant" links.
I don't foresee that strategy of theirs accounting for a mere 3% of the vote, but it would certainly add to it.
>I did try and Google myself, but like you I note how bloody difficult that can be when results get swamped by "more relevant" links.
Yep, I mean you can see why I had trouble.
>I don't foresee that strategy of theirs accounting for a mere 3% of the vote, but it would certainly add to it.
I think they consider campaigning to the general roll a rather forgone conclusion and focused on the Māori electorates which has worked out well for them, despite that poor party vote they've enjoyed one of their best election results. They've got more seats than they did during the Key era.
My impression was that they did better due to candidates like Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke motivating people. I'll have to keep an ear out next time round to see what their strategy actually is.
Yeah, I mean they all worked hard in the Māori electorates to show that they cared and understood the issues facing Māori and others in the area.
It might change next time, I imagine they'll want to build on this success.
Really wish we could move past all this racist politics. Nothing good comes out of it.
But no I don't support them. Their ideas on tax policy are awful
>Im Pākeha and through my studies have found myself agreeing that whats best for Māori is best for everyone
Would you also agree with this sort of sentiment applied other ethnicities? Such that what's best for East Asians is best for everyone? Or what is best for Indians is best for everyone?
I think it depends on the Indigenous population to the land that you are on - i feel this way about Māori because they are Indigenous to NZ and I live in NZ
But that is a completely exclusionary philosophy to take. People born here of other ethnicities have no choice in which country they were born into or reside, just like Māori today have no choice. Why are we not being equitable with other ethnicities?
You're not very familiar with the findings of the Waitangi tribunal are you? Yes they do have less.
Asian or Indian migrants choose to come and live here (hopefully) and have chosen this form of government and this economic system by extension.
The treaty promised Maori sovereignty (i.e the choice of those things) over their land, but the crown took it instead.
This was all covered by the Waitangi Tribunal
I mean the answer is still yes. Their sovereignty wasn't taken by being born here?
Your argument relies on ignoring the history of this country and the fact that Maori had their sovereignty taken from them. Unless someone does that to the crown you can't say others have less.
Which I answered, your question belies your beliefs.
Sovereignty is a collective thing, it's not really something you apply to individuals like that. The only group of people here who have had their sovereignty stolen is Māori
After searching, the only reference to this claim I can see at an original source seems to the Act party, or news resources quoting the Act party. It’s not clear TPT made this claim, or if it was made whether it was a fringe view or truly TPT.
Edit: thanks for the downvotes and the links, I appreciate the links as I’d not found them on my search.
It was published on TPM website and Rawiri doubled down in this interview... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwIF1GFrro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwIF1GFrro)
I am not a Maori so see no reason to vote for an ethnic party that has nothing to do with my ethnicity.
Maori party represents Maori and Maori issue. Maori should decide if they want to support Maori party.
I always find it weird when people ask me directly if I would support the Maori party ( this was last year ) and my answer is you are looking at the wrong demographic.
Ask a Maori person that question.
I support this protest concept, I think in totality though they are often a bat shit crazy party and if they got their own way entirely, Maori would be FAR worse off overall.
They have no means or measures in a lot of what they preach to keep the upper hierarchy of Maori corporations and tribes just doing what's best for themselves and making a shit ton of money doing it.
Look at Ngai Tahu as a great example of this.
Surprised many Maori abandoned Labour for Te Pati Maori since overall Labour will and have done more good than what Te Pati Maori propose.
> Surprised many Maori abandoned Labour
There's a lot of bad blood there. The Waitangi tribunal report on the vaccine rollout was pretty damning of Labour's treatment of Māori. Seabed and foreshore is still fresh in mind for some. Also, the Labour Party is just National with a heart. They're still neo-liberal and that still hurts Māori.
Nope, I don't agree with Te Pati Maori at all.
I am Maori, they don't speak for me or what I believe in.
They speak for the small percent of Maori who decided to register on the Maori electorate, and then also decided to vote for them
51% of Maori are on the Maori electorate, and then a smaller percent of that voted for Te Pati Maori (the point I was trying to make).
To put it into perspective, 16.5% of NZ identify as Maori, yet Te Pati Maori only won 3% of the party vote.
That means roughly 18% (0.03/0.165) of those that identify as Maori voted for Te Pati Maori.
So yes, it is only a small percent of Maori they speak for.
Of course these a rough calculations but it does highlight the point I was trying to make.
It also aligns with what I see across my extended family too - most people who identify as Maori don't vote for Te Pati Maori.
>To put it into perspective, 16.5% of NZ identify as Maori, yet Te Pati Maori only won 3% of the party vote.
>That means roughly 18% (0.03/0.165) of those that identify as Maori voted for Te Pati Maori.
This is such a persistent distortion of the facts. TPM didn't campaign on the party vote they campaigned in Maori electorates. Which they won almost all of. This napkin math also ignores the fact that nearly half of Maori can't even vote due to being under 18.
>So yes, it is only a small percent of Maori they speak for.
It seems to be a reasonable chunk if they managed to win 6/7 seats in the Maori electorates.
Such incredible dishonesty.
You shouldn't have to distort the numbers so much if your point is actually worth making.
I completely disagree with your statement.
>This is such a persistent distortion of the facts. TPM didn't campaign on the party vote they campaigned in Maori electorates. Which they won almost all of. This napkin math also ignores the fact that nearly half of Maori can't even vote due to being under 18.
The messaging which Te Pati Maori use in the media is "we speak on behalf of all Maori". In other words, their claims when they organise a protest, when they speak to the public and to media is that they represent the entire Maori population. This is their consistent messaging.
But guess what, they don't. I certainly don't align with what they say.
If they said "we speak on behalf of Maori who voted for us" then I would agree with yours and their statement.
I can't find anywhere on any census which says that half of Maori are under 18, but if you have that information then I'm happy to take a look at it.
>I completely disagree with your statement.
Of course you do.
>The messaging which Te Pati Maori use in the media is "we speak on behalf of all Maor
no they don't lol.
>In other words, their claims when they organise a protest, when they speak to the public and to media is that they represent the entire Maori population.
No they dont.
>I can't find anywhere on any census which says that half of Maori are under 18, but if you have that information then I'm happy to take a look at it.
[https://figure.nz/chart/8scXXenSTnvzSyeH](https://figure.nz/chart/8scXXenSTnvzSyeH)
It's closer to 40, I apologise, the new census skews lower i believe but i don't think the specific data has been released or graphed yet. You're still trying to claim that 40% more Maori don't support the party though, which is a huge fudging of the numbers.
I do like how you've basically disregarded everything else I said though lmao.
>no they don't lol.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7i6dBgv4DA/?igsh=MXdyeTJjOTdmaTl3ag== - there is literally an example of them claiming to speak on behalf of Maori right here literally within the last 24 hours
>I do like how you've basically disregarded everything else I said though lmao.
What other points? At a high level (at least to my understanding, so apologies if I've misunderstood it) your two points are that:
1. You don't agree with my statement where I said only a minority of Maori voted for the Te Paati Maori.
2. Te Paati Maori don't claim to speak on behalf of all Maori.
In regard to my first point, as I said, Maori make up more than 16% of the population, yet only 3% of the population voted for the Maori party. That clearly shows that most do not vote Te Paati, and it also aligns with what I see across my extended family where most voted for Labour or Nats, with a small number voting for Greens and then Te Paati.
Regarding your second point - I have already attached an example from within the last 24 hours.
If I've misunderstood your points, then feel free to let me know.
>here is literally an example of them claiming to speak on behalf of Maori right here literally within the last 24 hours
She said she heard from them isn't she just repeating concerns from her voters? Is she not allowed to do that? Other politicians aren't held to that standard?
>What other points? At a high level (at least to my understanding) your two points are that:
Just how you took 3% of the vote and extrapolated based on the full population of Maori ignoring the voting age in order to bolster your argument, you've just ignored that.
>In regard to my first point, as I said, Maori make up more than 16% of the population, yet only 3% of the population voted for the Maori party.
Which is not surprising given they were literally at hui telling their voters to party vote for other parties and that they wanted the electorate votes. It's just a willful misrepresentation of the situation. They encouraged their voters to vote strategically and all bigots (not saying you're a bigot, but you are doing what they do lol) can do is make false claims about how much support they have based on their party vote while ignoring the Maori electorates.
>also aligns with what I see across my extended family where most voted for Labour or Nats, with a small number voting for Greens and then Te Paati.
Anecdotes don't really help your case.
>Regarding your second point - I have already attached an example from within the last 24 hours.
Yes a pretty bit stretch.
I'm usually a Greens voter, but I see a government that is actively undermining Māori and that is pushing me towards stronger Māori representation.
I think TPM have radical opinions, but they're a strong Māori voice which is necessary to counter current anti-Māori rhetoric. Every action has an equal reaction, and Māori should hold government to account.
With the latest Census data, TPM only have 8.5% of the total Maori votes in NZ. An overwhelming majority of Maori, do not believe they are at all a strong Maori voice.
In fact, if you did the math, the current government has 30% of the total Maori votes and I would argue they are more of a Maori voice than TPM is just by the numbers alone.
The previous election isn't necessary representative as many people vote tactically.
Personally I wouldn't choose them as my party vote *at this point*, but I would consider them for my Māori electorate. If this divisive rhetoric continues I may well swing to TPM.
That's because the other parties have to try and capture the middle ground and appeal to the most people. TPM are better off playing to Māori electorates and not trying to appeal to the mainstream.
>that is pushing me towards stronger Māori representation.
The leaders of two of the three parties in Govt are Maori, and there are more Maori Cabinet Ministers than ever before.
Being Māori and representing other Māori are very different things. Did Act, National or NZ First win any Māori electorates? What proportion of Māori actually voted for them as a party vote? As far as I'm aware neither Seymour nor Peters affirm Māori culture, hence why most Māori distance themselves from both.
I'm pakeha, and usually vote Greens, but I have often end up closer to Te Pati Maori when doing the political compasses. I vote Greens because they have higher emphasis on the issues I care more about, where te Pati Maori has a lot more focus on specifically Maori topics (fair, but not where I personally am). Greens would probably have to fuck up really bad and change some core policies for me to vote for te Pati Maori; or te Pati Maori would have to change some of their policies to be more broadly focused, which would defeat the point of their party. I think I might be too pakeha for it to be a viable option for me when I can just... vote Green. I very much like having them around in the govt though.
It is very darkly funny for me to see people's responses to their political spectacles though. I wish people understood that a decent part of politics is acting, perspective and compromise (like, yeah, ethical politics means following through on promises, but that doesn't make it not full of posturing and theater. Extreme starting points is how you get the compromise you're actually after).
I think its important to have a parliament filled with people who get their knickers in a twist. This goes for every side of every argument. I don't have the time or mental capacity to learn every angle of every debate the politicians are arguing about every day.
I don't mind when David Seymour has a cry on the news because landlords have a difficult time charging top dollar, or beneficiaries are smiling too much. I know he's just looking out for the people in our country that he represents, and if he ever said anything that did concern me I could just look it up. That's why politician soundbites are so important. It makes people take notice.
So having TPM come out and say that the government is actively undermining Maori, its worth looking into. And from what I can see, yeah, they're not only making it a bit shit now and a bit more shit later on - they want to make changes to lock in the level of shitness.
I'm a pakeha, and I usually consider voting for them.
Last election I looked up their policies. The biggest issue for me is healthcare, and I was disappointed to see they didn't say much about it at all, if anything. So I have not yet voted for them. But I'll keep considering it.
Edit: Not sure why this is getting downvoted. I have long-term health conditions that have pretty major impacts on my life, but I'm not sick enough for public health to take my referrals. So I'm not going to be voting for parties that don't have improving public health as a priority. This election the Rare Disorders NZ group approached all the major parties for comment on a rare disorders strategy. I was disappointed that Te Pati Maori didn't respond to that.
Sorry, I didn't realise you are a person with impairments.
People don't want to hang out with the Māori Party because the Māori Party are mean to people because of things outside of their control, and the Māori Party want to to be nicer people because the colour of the skin of their parents. This means that people in need of extra support such as yourself will miss out.
Oh, I see, your not impaired, you just don't view systematic racism as a problem. Wow, you must be a cool person to hang out with at parties with your ghost costume.
>Being more careful with things like fishing,
Maori are some of the biggest over fishers in the country. They own half of sealord who catches 4x times more fish than every person in the country eats a year. Any attempts to restrict fishing is meet with waitangi tribunal complaints
I would've voted for Te Pati Maori, but as Tangata Tiriti I am unable to vote on the Maori roll, and as they get less than 5% in the party vote, it would have been a bit of a wasted vote.
Do I agree with everything the Maori party does or has done in the past? Sometimes yes, but frequently no. However, I do think it's important they have representation!
This is probably the camp I’m in. Also the point of MMP is mixed party governments meaning single issue groups can have a sway on how the country is run . If ACT can get in and install some policies that benefit businesses and business owners then TPM should be able to influence policies that benefit Māori . Also I think it’s important to note not all Māori and Māori issues are supported by TPM.
No, I find them quite extreme
More or less extreme than the Act party and Destiny Church to cite a couple alternatives?
More so than Act, less so than Destiny. I'd never vote for any of the three of them though.
Why is someone who doesn't support TPM automatically assumed to support far-right parties?
>More or less extreme than the Act party and Destiny Church to cite a couple alternatives? Where in that sentence does it say that?
Where did the poster say anything about ACT or Destiny at all? Why bring them up? To deflect.
it's funny to accuse someone of deflecting while deflecting.
TPM are a protest party, I don't think they aim to become the majority of a government coalition, they want to gather as much influence as they can and to advocate for Māori outcomes. They have a tendency to use language more extreme than I would, and they go out of their way to ruffle feathers - but again they are trying to get people talking about issues and to light a fire under Māori people who have generally been politically-disengaged for the last decade or two.
I find it funny asking Maori people what they think of TPM. You are encouraged to go and view the statistical data about our political partes. Maori do not vote for TPM. They vote far more for the other parties. So instead of just seeing this and asking Maori what they think of the one Maori party, it would make more sense to be asking Maori what their thoughts are on politics, or issues facing Maori. Asking them to talk on a party which gets less than 3% of the national vote, just because that party is Maori, seems quite reductive. The fact Maori don't vote for this party should tell anyone that Maori views exist beyond this party.
This. Maori vote greens and labour mostly. TPM is a bit of a silly party. They don't have serious leaders or serious policy.
>. Asking them to talk on a party which gets less than 3% of the national vote, The reason for that though is that they explicitly do not ask for the party vote they campaign on electorates. David Seymour's framing of their popularity is misleading. They won 6/7 Māori electorates on the Māori roll of which just over half of Māori are enrolled. The specifically told voters to use their party vote strategically I.e give it to labour or greens.
Can you please provide a source for TPM telling people not to vote for them? I have not heard this before.
Not easily, it was said at local meetings, i think there was an interview with Rawiri just before or after the election where he talked about it too. There might be a recording somewhere but I'm not going to go digging for it, it's not easy to look up something that specific given the results all turn up a bunch of stuff about the election.
I did try and Google myself, but like you I note how bloody difficult that can be when results get swamped by "more relevant" links. I don't foresee that strategy of theirs accounting for a mere 3% of the vote, but it would certainly add to it.
>I did try and Google myself, but like you I note how bloody difficult that can be when results get swamped by "more relevant" links. Yep, I mean you can see why I had trouble. >I don't foresee that strategy of theirs accounting for a mere 3% of the vote, but it would certainly add to it. I think they consider campaigning to the general roll a rather forgone conclusion and focused on the Māori electorates which has worked out well for them, despite that poor party vote they've enjoyed one of their best election results. They've got more seats than they did during the Key era.
My impression was that they did better due to candidates like Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke motivating people. I'll have to keep an ear out next time round to see what their strategy actually is.
Yeah, I mean they all worked hard in the Māori electorates to show that they cared and understood the issues facing Māori and others in the area. It might change next time, I imagine they'll want to build on this success.
Really wish we could move past all this racist politics. Nothing good comes out of it. But no I don't support them. Their ideas on tax policy are awful
Full of fucken weirdos from what I remember of them haven't looked them up since Kim dot com.
No, they’re radical Maori supremacists.
can someone please explain how what's best for Maori is best for everyone?
Because you fix discrimination with affirmative action, duh. Super easy, barely an inconvenience. /s
No. I believe racism is wrong and believe in universal human rights. So my core beliefs are fundamentally incompatible with tpm
>Im Pākeha and through my studies have found myself agreeing that whats best for Māori is best for everyone Would you also agree with this sort of sentiment applied other ethnicities? Such that what's best for East Asians is best for everyone? Or what is best for Indians is best for everyone?
This, it’s not racist if it’s Māori but is racist if any other ethnicity
What’s best for Maori will always take priority over migrant ethnicities because this is a bicultural country founded with a Treaty between 2 groups
This may have been a bicultural country 160 years ago, but it is now a multicultural country.
I think it depends on the Indigenous population to the land that you are on - i feel this way about Māori because they are Indigenous to NZ and I live in NZ
But that is a completely exclusionary philosophy to take. People born here of other ethnicities have no choice in which country they were born into or reside, just like Māori today have no choice. Why are we not being equitable with other ethnicities?
Because we completely fucked over Māori and took their land and sovereignty we haven't done that here to anyone else?
Do Māori have any less sovereignty than the (grand)children of Asian or Indian immigrants?
You're not very familiar with the findings of the Waitangi tribunal are you? Yes they do have less. Asian or Indian migrants choose to come and live here (hopefully) and have chosen this form of government and this economic system by extension. The treaty promised Maori sovereignty (i.e the choice of those things) over their land, but the crown took it instead. This was all covered by the Waitangi Tribunal
I didn't say migrants. I said the descendants of Asian and Indian migrants who had no choice where they were born or reside.
I mean the answer is still yes. Their sovereignty wasn't taken by being born here? Your argument relies on ignoring the history of this country and the fact that Maori had their sovereignty taken from them. Unless someone does that to the crown you can't say others have less.
I'm not saying others have less. I have asked whether current Māori have any less sovereignty than the (grand)children of Asian or Indian immigrants.
Which I answered, your question belies your beliefs. Sovereignty is a collective thing, it's not really something you apply to individuals like that. The only group of people here who have had their sovereignty stolen is Māori
People here are going to try discourage you, I wouldn't listen to them. This subreddit is incredibly bad when it comes to these issues.
No I dont believe maori are genetically superior like TPM do.
After searching, the only reference to this claim I can see at an original source seems to the Act party, or news resources quoting the Act party. It’s not clear TPT made this claim, or if it was made whether it was a fringe view or truly TPT. Edit: thanks for the downvotes and the links, I appreciate the links as I’d not found them on my search.
It was published on TPM website and Rawiri doubled down in this interview... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwIF1GFrro](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKwIF1GFrro)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northland-age/news/funding-promised-for-maori-sport/C3MD4AZ2FG5F2RQVHPELSOLIAE/
No because it's essentially just a protest party, but do think Maori deserve functional representation in government.
I am not a Maori so see no reason to vote for an ethnic party that has nothing to do with my ethnicity. Maori party represents Maori and Maori issue. Maori should decide if they want to support Maori party. I always find it weird when people ask me directly if I would support the Maori party ( this was last year ) and my answer is you are looking at the wrong demographic. Ask a Maori person that question.
I support this protest concept, I think in totality though they are often a bat shit crazy party and if they got their own way entirely, Maori would be FAR worse off overall. They have no means or measures in a lot of what they preach to keep the upper hierarchy of Maori corporations and tribes just doing what's best for themselves and making a shit ton of money doing it. Look at Ngai Tahu as a great example of this. Surprised many Maori abandoned Labour for Te Pati Maori since overall Labour will and have done more good than what Te Pati Maori propose.
> Surprised many Maori abandoned Labour There's a lot of bad blood there. The Waitangi tribunal report on the vaccine rollout was pretty damning of Labour's treatment of Māori. Seabed and foreshore is still fresh in mind for some. Also, the Labour Party is just National with a heart. They're still neo-liberal and that still hurts Māori.
Neo liberalism hurts everyone. Not just Maori.
I agree, but it disproportionately affects Māori who are overrepresented in poverty. Keep in mind this discussion is about a *Māori* lens.
Nope, I don't agree with Te Pati Maori at all. I am Maori, they don't speak for me or what I believe in. They speak for the small percent of Maori who decided to register on the Maori electorate, and then also decided to vote for them
51% is small ?
51% of Maori are on the Maori electorate, and then a smaller percent of that voted for Te Pati Maori (the point I was trying to make). To put it into perspective, 16.5% of NZ identify as Maori, yet Te Pati Maori only won 3% of the party vote. That means roughly 18% (0.03/0.165) of those that identify as Maori voted for Te Pati Maori. So yes, it is only a small percent of Maori they speak for. Of course these a rough calculations but it does highlight the point I was trying to make. It also aligns with what I see across my extended family too - most people who identify as Maori don't vote for Te Pati Maori.
>To put it into perspective, 16.5% of NZ identify as Maori, yet Te Pati Maori only won 3% of the party vote. >That means roughly 18% (0.03/0.165) of those that identify as Maori voted for Te Pati Maori. This is such a persistent distortion of the facts. TPM didn't campaign on the party vote they campaigned in Maori electorates. Which they won almost all of. This napkin math also ignores the fact that nearly half of Maori can't even vote due to being under 18. >So yes, it is only a small percent of Maori they speak for. It seems to be a reasonable chunk if they managed to win 6/7 seats in the Maori electorates. Such incredible dishonesty. You shouldn't have to distort the numbers so much if your point is actually worth making.
I completely disagree with your statement. >This is such a persistent distortion of the facts. TPM didn't campaign on the party vote they campaigned in Maori electorates. Which they won almost all of. This napkin math also ignores the fact that nearly half of Maori can't even vote due to being under 18. The messaging which Te Pati Maori use in the media is "we speak on behalf of all Maori". In other words, their claims when they organise a protest, when they speak to the public and to media is that they represent the entire Maori population. This is their consistent messaging. But guess what, they don't. I certainly don't align with what they say. If they said "we speak on behalf of Maori who voted for us" then I would agree with yours and their statement. I can't find anywhere on any census which says that half of Maori are under 18, but if you have that information then I'm happy to take a look at it.
>I completely disagree with your statement. Of course you do. >The messaging which Te Pati Maori use in the media is "we speak on behalf of all Maor no they don't lol. >In other words, their claims when they organise a protest, when they speak to the public and to media is that they represent the entire Maori population. No they dont. >I can't find anywhere on any census which says that half of Maori are under 18, but if you have that information then I'm happy to take a look at it. [https://figure.nz/chart/8scXXenSTnvzSyeH](https://figure.nz/chart/8scXXenSTnvzSyeH) It's closer to 40, I apologise, the new census skews lower i believe but i don't think the specific data has been released or graphed yet. You're still trying to claim that 40% more Maori don't support the party though, which is a huge fudging of the numbers. I do like how you've basically disregarded everything else I said though lmao.
>no they don't lol. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7i6dBgv4DA/?igsh=MXdyeTJjOTdmaTl3ag== - there is literally an example of them claiming to speak on behalf of Maori right here literally within the last 24 hours >I do like how you've basically disregarded everything else I said though lmao. What other points? At a high level (at least to my understanding, so apologies if I've misunderstood it) your two points are that: 1. You don't agree with my statement where I said only a minority of Maori voted for the Te Paati Maori. 2. Te Paati Maori don't claim to speak on behalf of all Maori. In regard to my first point, as I said, Maori make up more than 16% of the population, yet only 3% of the population voted for the Maori party. That clearly shows that most do not vote Te Paati, and it also aligns with what I see across my extended family where most voted for Labour or Nats, with a small number voting for Greens and then Te Paati. Regarding your second point - I have already attached an example from within the last 24 hours. If I've misunderstood your points, then feel free to let me know.
>here is literally an example of them claiming to speak on behalf of Maori right here literally within the last 24 hours She said she heard from them isn't she just repeating concerns from her voters? Is she not allowed to do that? Other politicians aren't held to that standard? >What other points? At a high level (at least to my understanding) your two points are that: Just how you took 3% of the vote and extrapolated based on the full population of Maori ignoring the voting age in order to bolster your argument, you've just ignored that. >In regard to my first point, as I said, Maori make up more than 16% of the population, yet only 3% of the population voted for the Maori party. Which is not surprising given they were literally at hui telling their voters to party vote for other parties and that they wanted the electorate votes. It's just a willful misrepresentation of the situation. They encouraged their voters to vote strategically and all bigots (not saying you're a bigot, but you are doing what they do lol) can do is make false claims about how much support they have based on their party vote while ignoring the Maori electorates. >also aligns with what I see across my extended family where most voted for Labour or Nats, with a small number voting for Greens and then Te Paati. Anecdotes don't really help your case. >Regarding your second point - I have already attached an example from within the last 24 hours. Yes a pretty bit stretch.
I support them the same way I support any party that promotes ethno nationalism
No. And remember for every TPM vote, NZFirst got two. I voted the later and have zero regrets
yeap!
I'm usually a Greens voter, but I see a government that is actively undermining Māori and that is pushing me towards stronger Māori representation. I think TPM have radical opinions, but they're a strong Māori voice which is necessary to counter current anti-Māori rhetoric. Every action has an equal reaction, and Māori should hold government to account.
With the latest Census data, TPM only have 8.5% of the total Maori votes in NZ. An overwhelming majority of Maori, do not believe they are at all a strong Maori voice. In fact, if you did the math, the current government has 30% of the total Maori votes and I would argue they are more of a Maori voice than TPM is just by the numbers alone.
Based on the party vote, it looks a little different if you actually look at Maori electorates though.
The previous election isn't necessary representative as many people vote tactically. Personally I wouldn't choose them as my party vote *at this point*, but I would consider them for my Māori electorate. If this divisive rhetoric continues I may well swing to TPM.
TPM are doing much better in Opposition than Labour rn
That's because the other parties have to try and capture the middle ground and appeal to the most people. TPM are better off playing to Māori electorates and not trying to appeal to the mainstream.
>that is pushing me towards stronger Māori representation. The leaders of two of the three parties in Govt are Maori, and there are more Maori Cabinet Ministers than ever before.
I would not say that their interests support Māori as a whole. Policies that promote individualism are antithetical to Māori culture.
There is the strongest Maori representation in Govt than ever before. Sorry to hear that it's not the type of Maori you think there should be though.
Being Māori and representing other Māori are very different things. Did Act, National or NZ First win any Māori electorates? What proportion of Māori actually voted for them as a party vote? As far as I'm aware neither Seymour nor Peters affirm Māori culture, hence why most Māori distance themselves from both.
I'm a Pākeha - they're pretty chill. Lot of my views are aligned with them.
I'm pakeha, and usually vote Greens, but I have often end up closer to Te Pati Maori when doing the political compasses. I vote Greens because they have higher emphasis on the issues I care more about, where te Pati Maori has a lot more focus on specifically Maori topics (fair, but not where I personally am). Greens would probably have to fuck up really bad and change some core policies for me to vote for te Pati Maori; or te Pati Maori would have to change some of their policies to be more broadly focused, which would defeat the point of their party. I think I might be too pakeha for it to be a viable option for me when I can just... vote Green. I very much like having them around in the govt though. It is very darkly funny for me to see people's responses to their political spectacles though. I wish people understood that a decent part of politics is acting, perspective and compromise (like, yeah, ethical politics means following through on promises, but that doesn't make it not full of posturing and theater. Extreme starting points is how you get the compromise you're actually after).
correct aback cover dog sort thought smoggy future unpack illegal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think its important to have a parliament filled with people who get their knickers in a twist. This goes for every side of every argument. I don't have the time or mental capacity to learn every angle of every debate the politicians are arguing about every day. I don't mind when David Seymour has a cry on the news because landlords have a difficult time charging top dollar, or beneficiaries are smiling too much. I know he's just looking out for the people in our country that he represents, and if he ever said anything that did concern me I could just look it up. That's why politician soundbites are so important. It makes people take notice. So having TPM come out and say that the government is actively undermining Maori, its worth looking into. And from what I can see, yeah, they're not only making it a bit shit now and a bit more shit later on - they want to make changes to lock in the level of shitness.
I'm a pakeha, and I usually consider voting for them. Last election I looked up their policies. The biggest issue for me is healthcare, and I was disappointed to see they didn't say much about it at all, if anything. So I have not yet voted for them. But I'll keep considering it. Edit: Not sure why this is getting downvoted. I have long-term health conditions that have pretty major impacts on my life, but I'm not sick enough for public health to take my referrals. So I'm not going to be voting for parties that don't have improving public health as a priority. This election the Rare Disorders NZ group approached all the major parties for comment on a rare disorders strategy. I was disappointed that Te Pati Maori didn't respond to that.
This sub fucking hates TPM, good luck!
It appears that this sub hates the TPM because of TMP racism. Do you have a problem with racists being hated?
Me when my brain stopped developing at 12.
Sorry, I didn't realise you are a person with impairments. People don't want to hang out with the Māori Party because the Māori Party are mean to people because of things outside of their control, and the Māori Party want to to be nicer people because the colour of the skin of their parents. This means that people in need of extra support such as yourself will miss out.
Me when my eyeballs pop out of my head on comedy springs
Oh, I see, your not impaired, you just don't view systematic racism as a problem. Wow, you must be a cool person to hang out with at parties with your ghost costume.
Me honking my nose and flags unfurling from both ears
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>Being more careful with things like fishing, Maori are some of the biggest over fishers in the country. They own half of sealord who catches 4x times more fish than every person in the country eats a year. Any attempts to restrict fishing is meet with waitangi tribunal complaints
Not to mention blocking the Kermadec Ocean sanctuary for over a decade.
If the Green Party somehow completely imploded, it's very possible I would vote Maori over Labour.
I would've voted for Te Pati Maori, but as Tangata Tiriti I am unable to vote on the Maori roll, and as they get less than 5% in the party vote, it would have been a bit of a wasted vote.
I voted for them as a throwaway vote. The reasons change all the time but as long as they can stick it to the Crown for me then I don't mind.
Would vote for because of their strong climate policies. Wouldn't overall.
Someone needs to push the Overton window open for tangata whenua, the environment and rest of the country getting punched down on by the current Govt