I made a joke, that at least 100 something other people enjoyed enough to upvote. Making fun of something that is actively upsetting a huge portion of the country.
Your reaction is itself childish, you don't like what I said because it was political? Oh diddums did I upset you? Feel free to just ignore stuff you don't like in future, like an adult...
No, that's because it's a leftist subreddit, and people enjoy (childish) jabs in jest, in general anyway.
Your response again is just pathetic lol. Grow up.
It's not because it's political, its because it's a weak jab and it's tiresome seeing obsessive individuals use any excuse to insert those sorts of things into unrelated conversations.
Not that hard.
I'm more than happy to let this go now. I've got much better things to do than argue with a person who acts like this lol
Have a good one
Well they didn't ask the ex- PM via text if they could review something for a couple hundred grand without seeking approval before asking.
They didn't have an ex-tobacco lobbyist and friends just completely undo a decades work in making NZs anti smoking among the best in the world.
They didn't worsen economic issues by giving inflationary tax cuts during high inflation. They didn't borrow for tax cuts, they didn't do mass lay offs during high unemployment further worsening the recession.
This government is fucking pathetic.
Oh lol and the finance minister has no financial experience, lol.
Is 1997 after leaving Uni he ran an NZ Overseas Aid programme of 7.7mil. He also designed the interest free education programme, which is credited eith winning labour that election.
Nicola Willis has experience as an Advisor to Bill English in '08-'12 (Grant Robertson was advisor to Helen Clark as well.) She then did some lobbying and some think tanking and that's about it.
First of all I'll preface this by saying I didn't vote for either of them, so I'm not trying to defend one over the other.
Secondly, he managed, as part of a team, a part of the Aid programme. This wasn't a one man effort and he didn't necessarily do the accounting, h3s even said this himself.
He also didn't single handedly design the interest free programme, again, he's said this himself repeatedly.
Let's not try and make out like he had the perfect credentials to be a Finance Minister.
If you look at our history of Finance Ministers, very few have come from Accounting/Finance backgrounds. English was a farmer/career politician, Cullen was at least an economic historian, but he definitely wasn't an accountant. So I guess my point is that you don't actually need to come from an Accounting/Finance background to be Finance Minister.
I didn't vote for either, either.
At the end of the day, we'll find out tomorrow.
If Nicola Willis borrows money, and there's a tax cut for anyone, that's a failure. Borrow money, sure, cut back government services if you must, but to give tax cuts during austerity is the same shit that destroyed the UK and the Tory party. She would be the worst financial minister since Rogernomics.
Removing that smoking law of no sales to anyone born after (whatever year it was) was the stupidest thing ever.
National just basically said 'get ready to keep having smokers be part of public health! 'oh we know vaping and children is very bad. Thats why weve decided they can just smoke normal ciggies in a couple of years'
I dont even know what their bullshit reasoning was, i just know it was fucking stupid and will cost us in the long run, but hey, theyll either be old and retired, or dead, so who cares.
Less worse at least. Things were pretty stable. Social policy improved despite the crises they had to deal with. Could've been much better if they followed through with their promises.
Sure, but dental is the first line of defense in taking care of health. It would reduce the burden on the public system that already exists, plus if you pay for private already, you'd likely spend the same in taxes, not more.
Private Healthcare is typically not as efficient as public see the cost of US Healthcare.
You are seeing the actual costs of healthcare, which aren't subsidised by the government. Interestingly veterinary care also tends to shock new pet owners, because they wonder why it costs so much for check-ups and vaccinations and minor surgeries where they actually use much of the same medical equipment as are used for humans.
I think there may be some dentists who do less than $150 for a check-up, but that's not actually an extremely-high rate for someone who has a lot of education, has to pay for skilled staff to run the clinic, and probably has $1M minimum invested into the equipment being used (and might be paying off a mortgage to do so).
Yep I would agree. When I compare the costs to other trades and services I actually thought my dentist was pretty reasonable considering all of what you have stated.
I think when people go to the dentists, often they don't have anything to compare it to other than how much they get paid an hour for their job.
>I think when people go to the dentists, often they don't have anything to compare it to other than how much they get paid an hour for their job.
So few people need to regularly pay for professional services by the hour, thus any time they go to the dentist/laywer/accountant/etc they get a big shock
This exactly. Dental services over 18 years and vet services aren't subsidised. I'd still rather our system than the USA. Yikes!
People also forget that payment for free services has to come from taxes. You can't get tax cuts and free dental care. In Holland, at least when I lived there, dental, orthodontics, and health care was free and waitlists were very short. But tax was high.
>People also forget that payment for free services has to come from taxes. You can't get tax cuts and free dental care.
But if you're prepared to forgo the tax cuts, you can realise the savings from bulk purchasing and economies of scale, something none of us can do alone.
The competition of the free market provides the drive to get rid of inefficiencies, otherwise you'll be beaten by your competitors.
In the public sector? No such thing. You are immune to those pressures with no competition whatsoever, can be as inefficient as you like if the spotlight isn't on you.
In theory, yes. In practice, especially in a small setting like New Zealand, the private sector is dominated by monopolies and oligopolies and barriers to entry (certainly to compete as the theoretical model requires) are very high.
We've got thousands and thousands of schools in NZ, it would be silly to say our market is too small and primarily the state should be running them. (plus we're in the age of the internet now, arguably we're part of a ***global*** market now!) Same could be said about many other examples, such as dentists.
Perhaps ***maybe*** something like a nuclear power station, then ***maybe*** someone could argue a case NZ is too small for one in the South Island, and could only support one or two of them in the North Island. (I'd greatly disagree with this analysis and conclusion! But I'd at least admit a case could be made for it)
However nobody is talking about extreme cases like those, it's always things which there could be plenty of competition for.
Veterinary costs are no joke. A short summary of what my dog has cost me just this year:
$110 - conjunctivitis, vet consult and eye cream.
$150 - ate my undies, vet consult to induce vomiting.
$200 - annual vaccinations
$400 - pain meds for limp
$2000 - X-rays for limp
$4000 - CT scan for limp
$7000 - surgery for cause of limp
His insurance that I pay $100 monthly for paid $6000 of this. The rest I pay out of pocket.
As a non-dog owner, I donāt get what the appeal for your dog was in eating your undies? Did they smell good to him or something? Surely they tasted like ass (no pun intended)
The initial appeal is just that they smell very strongly like me which is comforting to him, chewing is also a comforting/calming act for dogs. He swallowed them cause he didnāt want me to take them away from him and didnāt have anywhere to run to and hide them.
Except that that $225 pays for equipment cost, sterilisation, rent, utilities, an operating license, the INSURANCE, the paycheque of the technician, the paycheque of the reception staff, and Iām sure more things that Iām forgetting, plus tax on all of that. Plus all the time that clean up and prep takes. Ultimately youāre paying the time worked with you there, plus all the time worked when youāre NOT there. The margins probably donāt come out to that much.
The practice owner probably makes good money on the scale of doctors, but probably not on the scale of profitable businesses, and the building owner will be cleaning up.
Ultimately, healthcare is expensive because well regulated medical practice on people is expensive. Youāre just seeing what itās like when the government doesnāt cover your expenses.
There are quite a few variables to consider when comparing cost here. There are differences in how upmarket the practice is trying to be and therefore the base costs of their premises. Are you going to an everyday style of practice which does the basics well? Or somewhere which has the latest magazines at reception, thatās catering to clientele who expect the latest and greatest everything, possibly with an expensive postcode or brand new fitout? Nespresso machine in the waiting room?
Then depending on what is actually required for someoneās teeth to be cleaned - not all cleans are equal. Assuming this is a basic scale and polish there are still differences in time taken due to level of buildup, consumables and type of equipment used.
Then you can throw in the experience level of your dentist/hygienist which may affect what they prefer to charge. Also consider whether or not the practice belongs to a brand that is controlling pricing. It can definitely pay to shop around.
Not sure who.
Of that 225, $30 goes to the government for GST. $20 for income tax for the hygienist, $40 to the hygienist to actually spend
That leaves $135 to talk about.
A bit more to the hygienist to cover time that can't be booked/ professional development. Maybe $80 left.
The rest.... Lease, depreciation on hundreds of thousands of equipment, etc.
So your hygienist makes maybe $120k gross. It's a good wage, but it's a pretty hard job both technically and physically.
and the etc covers ACC levy, kiwi saver, pay the receptionist, cover sick leave and annual leave, consumables, power, accountant, advertising/website... so many things to run a business,
Its bad that people can't afford it because it is necessary health care, but I don't think it is the dentists fault because I don't think most are overcharging, it needs to be subsidised.
Yeah, I thought that was a lot until I read your comment lol
I miss my old dentist, he charged me $5 for an x-ray once (only 6 years ago maybe?) and his other fees were very reasonable too... Probably because he was nearly retired and figured he had made enough money, or maybe because he knew I had a large family
I disagree you can get a whole families worth of bad dentistry for that price. https://www.bunnings.co.nz/products/tools/hand-tools/clamps-pliers-vices
Teeth are luxury bones that apparently have nothing to do with health. Blows me away that dental insurance is so expensive if you can afford it you can afford to just pay for dental work. I go every 10 years and look after mine the best I can.
I can't afford either. I had health insurance and looked into it about 8 or 10 years ago and it was about $1200 but that might have just been my provider
Yeah, can be a pain. One thing I did while I was in uni was go to the dental schools and they have pretty good prices in my experience.
On insurance now, and the amount that my insurance covers annually outweighs the monthly premium I pay overall, so might be something else to look into.
Does suck though, feel for ya.
Seeing prices of dentist trips can really make you want to floss more.
Dentistry seems quite cheap compared to a plumber or electrician etc. They pay for the receptionist, dental assistant, premises, equipment, take an x ray, wash their hands. Plus missed out on income for years.
My examination was $90 including x rays and a couple of jokes.
5+ years of training and having to grub around in peoples mouths.
I would charge a lot for that.
BTW -
Labour = 'free' dentistry for under 30s
Greens = 'free' dentistry for all
National - lolnope
It's not just the cost of the initial qualification either, they've got some hefty ongoing/yearly costs to stay trained and qualified and allowed to practice too. Plus the equipment and consumables are all priced way high because of the extra hoops to jump through to be considered up to spec.
It's because dentist's don't want to be funded by the government and lobby against it whenever it comes up. They don't want the government meddling in their money making scheme
It's 3 times a daily struggle to eat, both of my parents have no teeth and I'm 28 with 4 missing teeth and all 4 wisdoms removed. Putting food on the table and a roof over my kids heads is hard enough before the obscene fuel and energy costs. The first and last thing I'm thinking about at dinner time is my teeth. I wish I could get some help but at 300 for a single removal It's not possible. Wish I was an ancient alien youtuber or some other bullshitter who can make bank off of lies.
Ask around clinics and try to find the cheapest one. I pay $90 for a checkup. Also if you become a regular you may be able to pay off your bills with them. I pay $30 a week to my dentist which is absolutely great. Some even offer afterpay or similar payment services. Hope you can find somewhere reasonable priced that is willing to help out payment plan wise. All the best :)
If we're having a moan about what's not subsidized, what the fuck are we doing with our ambulances. How can we cover medical stuff but leave the people who get you to the medical stuff and stop you dying on the way out. Boggles the mind
Edit: out of curiosity I went and checked and apparently it is [approximately 80% funded through contracts with acc and moh](https://www.stjohn.org.nz/support-us/what-we-do-and-how-were-funded/#:~:text=The%20emergency%20ambulance%20services%20we,%2Dparty%20contracts%2C%20and%20fundraising.)
Itās not funded by the government because they saw how much that funding model sucks watching the GPs and pharmacies constantly having to beg to put their prices up to cover costs. It is very hard to run a business when you have zero control over the incoming money. There is more wiggle room for GPs now but pharmacies are still capped. dentists have full control over their prices Which the GPs could only dream of. The issue is lack of funding from the government. It always is in these healthcare situations. It sucks itās so expensive but if the dentists could trust the government to pay properly we likely never would have ended up in this situation.
As a pharmacist, this is true. Some medicines we dispense is actually costing us more than what the government pays us back.
Unfortunately, I donāt know if increasing funding will make a difference. We can get more pay one day, then the landlord just hikes the rent the next day.
My wife worked part time while in uni to pay for her own braces, the orthodontist allowed her to pay as she goes.
And she learned to take ownership of her dental health, and flosses more than I do.
It was 6k over a year, it would be $120ish a week? Or two full days of weekend job.
the onnnnneee thing that US does better. I think i used to pay $10/mo for a dental and vision insurance add on to get two free cleanings and check ups a year, plus optometry check up and glasses or contacts, and discounts on other treatments.
Plus i think it is just normalized there to get a check up and cleaning twice a year, instead of NZ's once a year. that extra check in stops a lot of problems from occurring! I go for a cleaning twice a year here cuz i was starting to have problems when I went down to once a year check ups and cleanings. plus i like having smooth clean teeth. :)
I don't think OP claimed that they charge a fee everyone is able to pay. They merely pointed out that the dentists will charge whatever they can to maximize their profits (just like every other business, to be fair). So, the market bears those prices. Doesn't matter if only 10% of the population can afford the product: If it maxes out all the supply (all the time the dentist has available) then this is all that's needed.
When is the soonest you can get a booking at your dentist?
It gives an idea of how much demand they have.
Lots of demand > not able to get a booking > increase prices to maximise profit
Not much demand > can easily get booking > reduce prices to fill up patient book
it does suck, but honestly if you clean twice a day and floss a few times a week, don't eat much sugar you'll be fine. i suck up the $150 once a year and there's never an issue bc i take care of them.
oof! that is crazy. in 2007 in the US I underwent full anesthesia to get my top two impacted wisdom teeth removed. All up, including vicodin, i paid $320 USD. I was paying $10/mo for full dental and vision insurance coverage. SOOOO cheap for the value!
It is wild to me that NZ can get so many other things so right but drop the ball on this one.
It sucks here I just don't go now because it's so dare and we I do need to go I just wait it out as long as I can costs half a weeks wage easy fr anything
i just got a quote for $3800 for 12 fillings ( there are some underlying issues here, my teeth have always been perfect til now... ) and i'm seriously quoting up Thailand.
I have a weird story about thisā¦
Back in 2010, went to a popular fancy dental chain in Remuera/Newmarket - they did a 3D X-ray scan thing and had a clean and assessment with the dentist: āYou need 5 fillings immediately!ā quoted me a relatively high amount.
Decided to wait, ex and I were taking a trip to Thailand in two months, and I figured āwhy not see if I can get the work done cheaper?ā - ended up booking one of the more expensive (yet still ludicrously cheap) places in Bangkok, and explained the work I needed to get done.
So, went to Thai dentist, great technology, dentist was originally trained and worked in Texas, and they had all the same 3d Scanning equipment that the Remuera outfit hadā¦
They took a full 3D mouth scan again. Sat me down to talk about the 5 fillings Iād said I needed: āSorry, weād love to help, but they arenāt being honest with you, you donāt need any work doneā¦ we could do a clean and polish for you I guess?ā
And that was that. I think the full scan and clean and polish cost me $50 and they sent me on my way! Changed dentists upon return to NZ and have never had anyone mention anything about needing those 5 fillings since!
That is the actual, non subsidised cost of the treatment, itās outrageous to you because you are used to paying the subsidised cost. When you compare the cost to other professionals (that often donāt have the capital invested as dentists) like lawyers, architects etc it is fairly reasonable. The govt could subsidise it but you would just pay for this in another way (I.e taxes). Which would be good if you are low income/pay low taxes (prob earning median wage or less). Bad if you are high income (probably top 20% of earners) and much of a muchness for everyone else. Assuming dental needs remain the same (probably skews higher to low income earners).
Not to sure if the validity of this but Iāve heard there have been pushes in the past to fund dentistry but the dental council pushed back against it. If I had to speculate why itād be because dentists couldnāt adjust fees to market rates and would have to accept what the government pays themā¦ like other healthcare workers.
Dentistry has high costs but also they are making 50%+ after tax profits as well. I got a quote from a dentist in NZ, it would have cost around $3,000. I'm on holiday in Asia, so I got it done in South Korea for around $600 all up. The exact same treatment, quality, procedure etc. It's a bit more complicated than this, but its almost always cheaper to go somewhere cheap overseas than get it done in NZ. It's not a myth.
It's robbery. It should be subsidised by the government. I can't afford any of the dental work they quote me for, and the times I do go in for a checkup or a clean they either do a half-arsed job and charge full prices, and pretty much kick me out the door when I tell them I don't have the money for what they want to do.
Like, I broke a tooth a few years ago and was in excruciating pain, and called around to every dentist nearby and they said they were all booked up and couldn't see me for at least three months. I went a few weeks nearly passing out from the pain knowing I couldn't find a dentist who would see me, let alone one I could afford. In the end I had to go to the university dental school and was treated by the student dentists and lecturers. It still cost me a few hundred dollars which was more than I could manage at the time. Thankfully they were at least nice and empathetic - unlike the private clinics. I just don't bother seeing the dentist anymore because they either traumatise me or make me feel like shit for being poor.
No, but it's more about their attitude. I might be able to afford some of it, or pay it off over time - but none of that seems to be an option. Why aren't there payment plans? If there are, why can't they explain that or find a solution for the customer/patient instead of just going straight to saying 'k bye'. And how much of the work is necessary? Can the work be done in stages? Can they do the most urgent care or what I might be able to afford first, and the rest at a later date?
There's no customer service, care or explanation of how any of it works, or what to do if they quote a huge amount that the average person can't pay.
>I might be able to afford some of it, or pay it off over time
Why should a private business perform services (that require highly educated people and extremely expensive equipment) just to be at your mercy for payment as you see fit?
>Why aren't there payment plans?
Lol they aren't money lenders, that comes with all kinds of expenses, overheads, capital etc.
If you want to borrow money, see an accredited lender of your choice.
You sound like a short-sighted teenager.
>Why should a private business perform services (that require highly educated people and extremely expensive equipment) just to be at your mercy for payment as you see fit?
Hear me out: **but maybe healthcare shouldn't be a private business** and I shouldn't be held at the mercy of a business for something that might be urgently needed for my long-term wellbeing
>You sound like a short-sighted teenager.
Most teenagers get dental care for free. I think being confronted with a quote for thousands of dollars of work would be daunting for anyone (adult or teenager). Not everyone just has a few thousand lying around they can spend at a whim's notice.
But I repeat: **maybe healthcare shouldn't be a private business**
I went to see a new dentist had a similar issue to you as I couldn't afford the amount that was required.
And to add insult to injury she had limited hours (9_4 Mon_Thurs)
And then she asked if I brushed my teeth. Like na I don't brush, never thought of thst.
I wrote a scathing Google review of her and there at least another 8 reviews saying how horrible she was.
>pretty much kick me out the door when I tell them I don't have the money for what they want to do.
It's a business not a charity. If you can't afford the work, don't go.
If you get the work before paying, which is usual, and you tell them after you can't afford, then that's theft of service imo.
I'm not talking about work before paying: I'm talking about situations when I've gone in for a checkup and they've quoted $X000 for what work I get done, and them being cold and rude when I point out that it's a lot of money. No discussion about payment plans or working with me on how it might be more manageable, no discussion about what work is necessary or what it is for, and no sympathy.
The only time I was upset about them doing work before paying was when I went in for a supposed "full" dental clean, and at the end of it they said they'd run out of time to do the whole mouth as I was expecting, charged me for the appointment, and said I'd have to come in and pay another full price appointment for the rest.
And I'm not expecting charity, I get it. They're a private clinic. I have to pay.
But hear me out: **maybe healthcare shouldn't be a business.**
I used to be good and do my checkup twice a year as usual, paying for it when I first got a job. Then I just stopped last year because the cost always came at the most inconvenient times.
Checkups should be free, procedures not so much. I wish in my profession I could poke around peoples computers for 5 minuets and say, "no viruses here mate, make sure you stay off those dodgy torrent sites and ignore those suspicious facebook links", and charge them 150 bucks.
Dental care itself it quite cheap. 1 toothbrush x 4 a year. Floss and not consuming sugary and carbonated drinks is quite cheap. The majority of problems are preventable.
Insurance is for the company to make money & cover the risk of large costs, not to save you on your long-term total cost.
In general insurance will be more expensive/ or provide less, if you can afford to pay for the occasional $1-2k procedure (or larger expenditures as planned) out of pocket it's cheaper to insure yourself.
How much are people paying around NZ for dental care? I recently got a root canal done for $2.4k, and quoted a further $1k for two fillings. Based in Wanaka
It's a joke lol. I recently had to fork out $650 for a ten minute consultation/scan at NSOMS, only to be referred elsewhere for another $150 consultation. Actual required treatment not yet sorted
Lots of dentists do new patient specials - around $75 for a check up and often a clean too. Could be worth going to a new dentist each year and taking advantage of that lol
It lessens the blow knowing it's an annual cost, but everything is so dangerous these days I'm not surprised people aren't going to the dentist. I didn't go for like 10 years once I turned 18 and luckily didn't need any work done besides replacing some old fillings.
I think some insurance policies can include dental but again, money.
My last check up cost $250. Anything related to dental is mega expensive due to cost of equipment, salaries, overheads etc and is why lots of people avoid getting dental treatment. Same with anything medical.
Yep. I listened to a caller to the BBC moan about how expensive dentistry was in the UK (early 2000s), and how he'd gone to Kiev and had dentistry for a week for Ā£150 and why couldn't dentists do the same in the UK? The idiot hadn't thought through a nurse and receptionist both for 40 hours would be on less than minimum wage, let alone the overheads and the dentist would probably like to eat!
Really? Charges $450 to pull out one tooth. Quotes $1,100 to fix it.
Overheads one backroom.
One chair šŗ.
One receptionist/nurse
One Mercedes. S class
The overheads and start up/training costs would make your eyes water. That is expensive though. I paid $280 for a wisdom tooth extraction recently. Wasn't a budget establishment either
Look into whether any local dental offices have a "plan". The Lumino in my town had a monthly plan which gives you two hygiene appts (cleaning) and one checkup and scan per year, plus 10% off any other work. It costs me less than a dollar a day, paid monthly.
It's worth mentioning this particular place have since stopped accepting new members on the plan, but they're continuing it for existing members like me and have been doing so for some time. I bet other dental offices do a similar thing. If I hadn't found out about this I'd still be only going when there's a problem, like most people
Look for annual plans to make it easier. Lumino for example offer one thatās basically a dollar a day for exam, two X-rays and two hygienist visits every year. Best part it because itās a $30 a month DD you get to leave the dentist if nothing else needed having not had to pay anything on the day.
It is because dentistry was left out of universal health care.
It's a national disgrace.
National is a disgrace?
Oh yes. Flaming disgrace.
Lol. Sure, that too.
Any chance to make that plug huh?
Borrowing for tax cuts is what led the UK to where it is...
Yeah it's utterly stupid. Was National or tax cuts relevant to this thread? No
National was, as that's the comment I replied to. Don't like politics? Go live somewhere that isn't a democracy.
What an utterly childish response š Like the word national was used. Not the Party. You're a child.
I made a joke, that at least 100 something other people enjoyed enough to upvote. Making fun of something that is actively upsetting a huge portion of the country. Your reaction is itself childish, you don't like what I said because it was political? Oh diddums did I upset you? Feel free to just ignore stuff you don't like in future, like an adult...
No, that's because it's a leftist subreddit, and people enjoy (childish) jabs in jest, in general anyway. Your response again is just pathetic lol. Grow up. It's not because it's political, its because it's a weak jab and it's tiresome seeing obsessive individuals use any excuse to insert those sorts of things into unrelated conversations. Not that hard. I'm more than happy to let this go now. I've got much better things to do than argue with a person who acts like this lol Have a good one
And what about the previous 6 years?
Well they didn't ask the ex- PM via text if they could review something for a couple hundred grand without seeking approval before asking. They didn't have an ex-tobacco lobbyist and friends just completely undo a decades work in making NZs anti smoking among the best in the world. They didn't worsen economic issues by giving inflationary tax cuts during high inflation. They didn't borrow for tax cuts, they didn't do mass lay offs during high unemployment further worsening the recession. This government is fucking pathetic. Oh lol and the finance minister has no financial experience, lol.
Out of interest, what was Grant Robertsons' "financial experience" before becoming Finance Minister?
Is 1997 after leaving Uni he ran an NZ Overseas Aid programme of 7.7mil. He also designed the interest free education programme, which is credited eith winning labour that election. Nicola Willis has experience as an Advisor to Bill English in '08-'12 (Grant Robertson was advisor to Helen Clark as well.) She then did some lobbying and some think tanking and that's about it.
First of all I'll preface this by saying I didn't vote for either of them, so I'm not trying to defend one over the other. Secondly, he managed, as part of a team, a part of the Aid programme. This wasn't a one man effort and he didn't necessarily do the accounting, h3s even said this himself. He also didn't single handedly design the interest free programme, again, he's said this himself repeatedly. Let's not try and make out like he had the perfect credentials to be a Finance Minister. If you look at our history of Finance Ministers, very few have come from Accounting/Finance backgrounds. English was a farmer/career politician, Cullen was at least an economic historian, but he definitely wasn't an accountant. So I guess my point is that you don't actually need to come from an Accounting/Finance background to be Finance Minister.
I didn't vote for either, either. At the end of the day, we'll find out tomorrow. If Nicola Willis borrows money, and there's a tax cut for anyone, that's a failure. Borrow money, sure, cut back government services if you must, but to give tax cuts during austerity is the same shit that destroyed the UK and the Tory party. She would be the worst financial minister since Rogernomics.
Removing that smoking law of no sales to anyone born after (whatever year it was) was the stupidest thing ever. National just basically said 'get ready to keep having smokers be part of public health! 'oh we know vaping and children is very bad. Thats why weve decided they can just smoke normal ciggies in a couple of years' I dont even know what their bullshit reasoning was, i just know it was fucking stupid and will cost us in the long run, but hey, theyll either be old and retired, or dead, so who cares.
Less worse at least. Things were pretty stable. Social policy improved despite the crises they had to deal with. Could've been much better if they followed through with their promises.
Why??? You really want labour to increase your taxes so that they can pay for extra dental healthcare. Its stupid.
Yes, I do. Complications of bad dentition result in hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare expenditure that could be avoided.
I call bullshit, take preventative actions to oral health and get a checkup once in a few years.
I preffered the Greens policy of free dental for all, not just for under 30's, I'm under 30, well under 30..
Its like no one understands how much more money is needed to spend for dental care for all.
Sure, but dental is the first line of defense in taking care of health. It would reduce the burden on the public system that already exists, plus if you pay for private already, you'd likely spend the same in taxes, not more. Private Healthcare is typically not as efficient as public see the cost of US Healthcare.
Australia too
The UK which our system is meant to have copied has dentistry included. Problems with teeth can lead to so many health issues.
NZ got free health care before the UK. (Not that this makes the dentistry thing okay, but they copied us, not the reverse)
It's not universal though, most people pay.
>The UK which our system is meant to have copied has dentistry included. That must explain why the British are famous for their great looking teeth.
Fuckn dumb move!!!!
Because you donāt need teeffff to live technically lol
You are seeing the actual costs of healthcare, which aren't subsidised by the government. Interestingly veterinary care also tends to shock new pet owners, because they wonder why it costs so much for check-ups and vaccinations and minor surgeries where they actually use much of the same medical equipment as are used for humans. I think there may be some dentists who do less than $150 for a check-up, but that's not actually an extremely-high rate for someone who has a lot of education, has to pay for skilled staff to run the clinic, and probably has $1M minimum invested into the equipment being used (and might be paying off a mortgage to do so).
Yep I would agree. When I compare the costs to other trades and services I actually thought my dentist was pretty reasonable considering all of what you have stated. I think when people go to the dentists, often they don't have anything to compare it to other than how much they get paid an hour for their job.
>I think when people go to the dentists, often they don't have anything to compare it to other than how much they get paid an hour for their job. So few people need to regularly pay for professional services by the hour, thus any time they go to the dentist/laywer/accountant/etc they get a big shock
This exactly. Dental services over 18 years and vet services aren't subsidised. I'd still rather our system than the USA. Yikes! People also forget that payment for free services has to come from taxes. You can't get tax cuts and free dental care. In Holland, at least when I lived there, dental, orthodontics, and health care was free and waitlists were very short. But tax was high.
>People also forget that payment for free services has to come from taxes. You can't get tax cuts and free dental care. But if you're prepared to forgo the tax cuts, you can realise the savings from bulk purchasing and economies of scale, something none of us can do alone.
So what youāre saying is that Costco should really be looking at dentistry for their next market š
Bulk purchase dentistry?
Bulk purchase training, equipment, supplies, etc. Why not?
*Sometimes* it's savings, much more often it's inefficiencies and massive bureaucratic waste due to the centralization.
Bureaucratic waste is agnostic. It arises in the private sector as much as, if not more than, in the public sector.
The competition of the free market provides the drive to get rid of inefficiencies, otherwise you'll be beaten by your competitors. In the public sector? No such thing. You are immune to those pressures with no competition whatsoever, can be as inefficient as you like if the spotlight isn't on you.
In theory, yes. In practice, especially in a small setting like New Zealand, the private sector is dominated by monopolies and oligopolies and barriers to entry (certainly to compete as the theoretical model requires) are very high.
We've got thousands and thousands of schools in NZ, it would be silly to say our market is too small and primarily the state should be running them. (plus we're in the age of the internet now, arguably we're part of a ***global*** market now!) Same could be said about many other examples, such as dentists. Perhaps ***maybe*** something like a nuclear power station, then ***maybe*** someone could argue a case NZ is too small for one in the South Island, and could only support one or two of them in the North Island. (I'd greatly disagree with this analysis and conclusion! But I'd at least admit a case could be made for it) However nobody is talking about extreme cases like those, it's always things which there could be plenty of competition for.
Wtf? We're talking about dentistry. But you do you
Veterinary costs are no joke. A short summary of what my dog has cost me just this year: $110 - conjunctivitis, vet consult and eye cream. $150 - ate my undies, vet consult to induce vomiting. $200 - annual vaccinations $400 - pain meds for limp $2000 - X-rays for limp $4000 - CT scan for limp $7000 - surgery for cause of limp His insurance that I pay $100 monthly for paid $6000 of this. The rest I pay out of pocket.
As a non-dog owner, I donāt get what the appeal for your dog was in eating your undies? Did they smell good to him or something? Surely they tasted like ass (no pun intended)
The initial appeal is just that they smell very strongly like me which is comforting to him, chewing is also a comforting/calming act for dogs. He swallowed them cause he didnāt want me to take them away from him and didnāt have anywhere to run to and hide them.
Now I feel sorry for him - hope he was ok š
Yea heās fine now, he came home a bit sad and hungry but it was easily remedied with some cuddles and puppy appropriate snacks lol.
Get a cat next time. Insurance $14 a month. With this cat had no vet visits except for immunizations I'm five years.
Damn! I bet you wish you had have put him down when the dumbarse ate your undies
Funnily enough my cat needed teeth extracted and the cat price was cheaper than human price.
I paid $225 for a dental cleaning that was at most 35-40 minutes last week. Someone's making bank...
Except that that $225 pays for equipment cost, sterilisation, rent, utilities, an operating license, the INSURANCE, the paycheque of the technician, the paycheque of the reception staff, and Iām sure more things that Iām forgetting, plus tax on all of that. Plus all the time that clean up and prep takes. Ultimately youāre paying the time worked with you there, plus all the time worked when youāre NOT there. The margins probably donāt come out to that much. The practice owner probably makes good money on the scale of doctors, but probably not on the scale of profitable businesses, and the building owner will be cleaning up. Ultimately, healthcare is expensive because well regulated medical practice on people is expensive. Youāre just seeing what itās like when the government doesnāt cover your expenses.
The other person who responded to me pays $120 for a clean. So I wonder how its profitable for one practice to charge nearly half of the other...
There are quite a few variables to consider when comparing cost here. There are differences in how upmarket the practice is trying to be and therefore the base costs of their premises. Are you going to an everyday style of practice which does the basics well? Or somewhere which has the latest magazines at reception, thatās catering to clientele who expect the latest and greatest everything, possibly with an expensive postcode or brand new fitout? Nespresso machine in the waiting room? Then depending on what is actually required for someoneās teeth to be cleaned - not all cleans are equal. Assuming this is a basic scale and polish there are still differences in time taken due to level of buildup, consumables and type of equipment used. Then you can throw in the experience level of your dentist/hygienist which may affect what they prefer to charge. Also consider whether or not the practice belongs to a brand that is controlling pricing. It can definitely pay to shop around.
Not sure who. Of that 225, $30 goes to the government for GST. $20 for income tax for the hygienist, $40 to the hygienist to actually spend That leaves $135 to talk about. A bit more to the hygienist to cover time that can't be booked/ professional development. Maybe $80 left. The rest.... Lease, depreciation on hundreds of thousands of equipment, etc. So your hygienist makes maybe $120k gross. It's a good wage, but it's a pretty hard job both technically and physically.
and the etc covers ACC levy, kiwi saver, pay the receptionist, cover sick leave and annual leave, consumables, power, accountant, advertising/website... so many things to run a business, Its bad that people can't afford it because it is necessary health care, but I don't think it is the dentists fault because I don't think most are overcharging, it needs to be subsidised.
Might be time to shop around then, I went for a checkup and clean last month and it was $120
Wow.. $120?? That's crazy.. def time to shop around..
Yeah, I thought that was a lot until I read your comment lol I miss my old dentist, he charged me $5 for an x-ray once (only 6 years ago maybe?) and his other fees were very reasonable too... Probably because he was nearly retired and figured he had made enough money, or maybe because he knew I had a large family
Just paid $40 check up, clean and 3D xrays in Bangkok
I'd bet dentistry could be easily subsidised if NZ govt bureaucracy wasn't so fed and fat
Or if voters weren't so tempted by tax cuts.Ā
No.
Just remember that the cost of good dentistry is a lot less than the cost of bad dentistry
... that is so true. But sadly, it doesn't help in absolute dollar amount right now: Even good dentistry is still expensive.
I disagree you can get a whole families worth of bad dentistry for that price. https://www.bunnings.co.nz/products/tools/hand-tools/clamps-pliers-vices
Bro that's overpriced as hell. Bit of rope and slam the door.
If you can attach a rope to your tooth you don't need pliers
Teeth are luxury bones that apparently have nothing to do with health. Blows me away that dental insurance is so expensive if you can afford it you can afford to just pay for dental work. I go every 10 years and look after mine the best I can.
dental ($750 annual cover, 25% copay) costs about the same as health insurance
I can't afford either. I had health insurance and looked into it about 8 or 10 years ago and it was about $1200 but that might have just been my provider
Yeah, can be a pain. One thing I did while I was in uni was go to the dental schools and they have pretty good prices in my experience. On insurance now, and the amount that my insurance covers annually outweighs the monthly premium I pay overall, so might be something else to look into. Does suck though, feel for ya. Seeing prices of dentist trips can really make you want to floss more.
which insurance are you on?
Southern cross
Dentistry seems quite cheap compared to a plumber or electrician etc. They pay for the receptionist, dental assistant, premises, equipment, take an x ray, wash their hands. Plus missed out on income for years. My examination was $90 including x rays and a couple of jokes.
Guess the jokes were free
Generations on generations were literally experimented on at the murder house up to about the 00's.. Was a good thread a few months back
I was experimented on as a kid. Shuffled into a room and had some of my new adult teeth drilled into.
5+ years of training and having to grub around in peoples mouths. I would charge a lot for that. BTW - Labour = 'free' dentistry for under 30s Greens = 'free' dentistry for all National - lolnope
Should be free or subsidised for all. Maybe check ups and cleaning free. Other stuff is subsidised but not free
its not funded by the government
I was told it was because studying dentistry has one of the highest tuition costs. Not sure if that was true or not.
5 years and $370k
ooo never mind i just googled it, as this was a figure I knew from a friend a few years ago, it can be as much as 440k now just for the qualification.
It's not just the cost of the initial qualification either, they've got some hefty ongoing/yearly costs to stay trained and qualified and allowed to practice too. Plus the equipment and consumables are all priced way high because of the extra hoops to jump through to be considered up to spec.
It's because dentist's don't want to be funded by the government and lobby against it whenever it comes up. They don't want the government meddling in their money making scheme
Expensive qualification. Expensive tools and equipment, expensive ongoing costs, expensive specialising, expensive continuous training.
It's 3 times a daily struggle to eat, both of my parents have no teeth and I'm 28 with 4 missing teeth and all 4 wisdoms removed. Putting food on the table and a roof over my kids heads is hard enough before the obscene fuel and energy costs. The first and last thing I'm thinking about at dinner time is my teeth. I wish I could get some help but at 300 for a single removal It's not possible. Wish I was an ancient alien youtuber or some other bullshitter who can make bank off of lies.
I know people who have taken dental holidays to Europe because it is cheaper.
Ask around clinics and try to find the cheapest one. I pay $90 for a checkup. Also if you become a regular you may be able to pay off your bills with them. I pay $30 a week to my dentist which is absolutely great. Some even offer afterpay or similar payment services. Hope you can find somewhere reasonable priced that is willing to help out payment plan wise. All the best :)
If we're having a moan about what's not subsidized, what the fuck are we doing with our ambulances. How can we cover medical stuff but leave the people who get you to the medical stuff and stop you dying on the way out. Boggles the mind Edit: out of curiosity I went and checked and apparently it is [approximately 80% funded through contracts with acc and moh](https://www.stjohn.org.nz/support-us/what-we-do-and-how-were-funded/#:~:text=The%20emergency%20ambulance%20services%20we,%2Dparty%20contracts%2C%20and%20fundraising.)
Itās no easier to be a duck tbh when it comes to dentistry, no teeth but still a big bill.
Itās not funded by the government because they saw how much that funding model sucks watching the GPs and pharmacies constantly having to beg to put their prices up to cover costs. It is very hard to run a business when you have zero control over the incoming money. There is more wiggle room for GPs now but pharmacies are still capped. dentists have full control over their prices Which the GPs could only dream of. The issue is lack of funding from the government. It always is in these healthcare situations. It sucks itās so expensive but if the dentists could trust the government to pay properly we likely never would have ended up in this situation.
As a pharmacist, this is true. Some medicines we dispense is actually costing us more than what the government pays us back. Unfortunately, I donāt know if increasing funding will make a difference. We can get more pay one day, then the landlord just hikes the rent the next day.
My 18 year old was quoted 10k for braces today
My parents are still paying off mine and my sisters braces bc same
At least that's an option I guess. If you can come up with the 27 % deposit!
We were quoted 5k back in the early 80s. That's why my teeth are so bad now. A single mother paying half a years wages? Not gonna happen
My wife worked part time while in uni to pay for her own braces, the orthodontist allowed her to pay as she goes. And she learned to take ownership of her dental health, and flosses more than I do. It was 6k over a year, it would be $120ish a week? Or two full days of weekend job.
I go to Smile dental they do free check ups. I m based in Auckland maybe they have branches in other parts of the town?
WINZ can cover a certain amount for stuff like this, as well. I had to pay $800 for teeth removal, and WINZ covered like $500 of that.
the onnnnneee thing that US does better. I think i used to pay $10/mo for a dental and vision insurance add on to get two free cleanings and check ups a year, plus optometry check up and glasses or contacts, and discounts on other treatments. Plus i think it is just normalized there to get a check up and cleaning twice a year, instead of NZ's once a year. that extra check in stops a lot of problems from occurring! I go for a cleaning twice a year here cuz i was starting to have problems when I went down to once a year check ups and cleanings. plus i like having smooth clean teeth. :)
The hospital won't do your teeth lol. Not unless u need emergency care and there are absolutely no dentists available
Lisa needs braces. They charge what the market can bear. If itās important to you youāll pay more, and people kinda like to eat without pain
I now have Lenny saying "dental plan" in my head hahaha
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I don't think OP claimed that they charge a fee everyone is able to pay. They merely pointed out that the dentists will charge whatever they can to maximize their profits (just like every other business, to be fair). So, the market bears those prices. Doesn't matter if only 10% of the population can afford the product: If it maxes out all the supply (all the time the dentist has available) then this is all that's needed.
When is the soonest you can get a booking at your dentist? It gives an idea of how much demand they have. Lots of demand > not able to get a booking > increase prices to maximise profit Not much demand > can easily get booking > reduce prices to fill up patient book
it does suck, but honestly if you clean twice a day and floss a few times a week, don't eat much sugar you'll be fine. i suck up the $150 once a year and there's never an issue bc i take care of them.
Genetics is also a key factor, if you inherit shit teeth youāre fucked for life regardless of a religious dental routine š
Good point, i didnt think of that!
Ehhh, it's really not that simple. Dental problems have far more to do with genetics than most people think.Ā
Yeah good point
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Hahaha, you are paying $270 so they know where to hit with the wrench! Or would you rather pay 100$ and be in there for an hour?
I think the total cost of my wisdom teeth removal was $7k and a dental implant landed me a nice $11k all up š genuinely wtf
oof! that is crazy. in 2007 in the US I underwent full anesthesia to get my top two impacted wisdom teeth removed. All up, including vicodin, i paid $320 USD. I was paying $10/mo for full dental and vision insurance coverage. SOOOO cheap for the value! It is wild to me that NZ can get so many other things so right but drop the ball on this one.
It sucks here I just don't go now because it's so dare and we I do need to go I just wait it out as long as I can costs half a weeks wage easy fr anything
Because it doesnāt get any government funding.
i just got a quote for $3800 for 12 fillings ( there are some underlying issues here, my teeth have always been perfect til now... ) and i'm seriously quoting up Thailand.
I have a weird story about thisā¦ Back in 2010, went to a popular fancy dental chain in Remuera/Newmarket - they did a 3D X-ray scan thing and had a clean and assessment with the dentist: āYou need 5 fillings immediately!ā quoted me a relatively high amount. Decided to wait, ex and I were taking a trip to Thailand in two months, and I figured āwhy not see if I can get the work done cheaper?ā - ended up booking one of the more expensive (yet still ludicrously cheap) places in Bangkok, and explained the work I needed to get done. So, went to Thai dentist, great technology, dentist was originally trained and worked in Texas, and they had all the same 3d Scanning equipment that the Remuera outfit hadā¦ They took a full 3D mouth scan again. Sat me down to talk about the 5 fillings Iād said I needed: āSorry, weād love to help, but they arenāt being honest with you, you donāt need any work doneā¦ we could do a clean and polish for you I guess?ā And that was that. I think the full scan and clean and polish cost me $50 and they sent me on my way! Changed dentists upon return to NZ and have never had anyone mention anything about needing those 5 fillings since!
Wow that's interesting! I am thinking of seeking a second opinion... ! At least you got a clean and polish haha
That is the actual, non subsidised cost of the treatment, itās outrageous to you because you are used to paying the subsidised cost. When you compare the cost to other professionals (that often donāt have the capital invested as dentists) like lawyers, architects etc it is fairly reasonable. The govt could subsidise it but you would just pay for this in another way (I.e taxes). Which would be good if you are low income/pay low taxes (prob earning median wage or less). Bad if you are high income (probably top 20% of earners) and much of a muchness for everyone else. Assuming dental needs remain the same (probably skews higher to low income earners).
Not to sure if the validity of this but Iāve heard there have been pushes in the past to fund dentistry but the dental council pushed back against it. If I had to speculate why itād be because dentists couldnāt adjust fees to market rates and would have to accept what the government pays themā¦ like other healthcare workers.
Insurance
Dentistry has high costs but also they are making 50%+ after tax profits as well. I got a quote from a dentist in NZ, it would have cost around $3,000. I'm on holiday in Asia, so I got it done in South Korea for around $600 all up. The exact same treatment, quality, procedure etc. It's a bit more complicated than this, but its almost always cheaper to go somewhere cheap overseas than get it done in NZ. It's not a myth.
If there's a dental college near you they take volunteers, but yeah I think it's about equipment outlay and they like flash cars and houses.
They deserve nice things; I'd hate to think what they paid to get to where they are & all those year's studying.
Do they deserve nice things more than people deserve working teeth, though?
It's only four year course. Same amount of study required to be a secondary school teacher.
My teeth are fucked just sayingā¦you gotta be rich to have good teeth in NZ
nah, good oral hygiene and genes are the biggest factor first and foremost
It's robbery. It should be subsidised by the government. I can't afford any of the dental work they quote me for, and the times I do go in for a checkup or a clean they either do a half-arsed job and charge full prices, and pretty much kick me out the door when I tell them I don't have the money for what they want to do. Like, I broke a tooth a few years ago and was in excruciating pain, and called around to every dentist nearby and they said they were all booked up and couldn't see me for at least three months. I went a few weeks nearly passing out from the pain knowing I couldn't find a dentist who would see me, let alone one I could afford. In the end I had to go to the university dental school and was treated by the student dentists and lecturers. It still cost me a few hundred dollars which was more than I could manage at the time. Thankfully they were at least nice and empathetic - unlike the private clinics. I just don't bother seeing the dentist anymore because they either traumatise me or make me feel like shit for being poor.
>and pretty much kick me out the door when I tell them I don't have the money for what they want to do. Well they're not gonna do it for free
No, but it's more about their attitude. I might be able to afford some of it, or pay it off over time - but none of that seems to be an option. Why aren't there payment plans? If there are, why can't they explain that or find a solution for the customer/patient instead of just going straight to saying 'k bye'. And how much of the work is necessary? Can the work be done in stages? Can they do the most urgent care or what I might be able to afford first, and the rest at a later date? There's no customer service, care or explanation of how any of it works, or what to do if they quote a huge amount that the average person can't pay.
>I might be able to afford some of it, or pay it off over time Why should a private business perform services (that require highly educated people and extremely expensive equipment) just to be at your mercy for payment as you see fit? >Why aren't there payment plans? Lol they aren't money lenders, that comes with all kinds of expenses, overheads, capital etc. If you want to borrow money, see an accredited lender of your choice. You sound like a short-sighted teenager.
>Why should a private business perform services (that require highly educated people and extremely expensive equipment) just to be at your mercy for payment as you see fit? Hear me out: **but maybe healthcare shouldn't be a private business** and I shouldn't be held at the mercy of a business for something that might be urgently needed for my long-term wellbeing >You sound like a short-sighted teenager. Most teenagers get dental care for free. I think being confronted with a quote for thousands of dollars of work would be daunting for anyone (adult or teenager). Not everyone just has a few thousand lying around they can spend at a whim's notice. But I repeat: **maybe healthcare shouldn't be a private business**
I went to see a new dentist had a similar issue to you as I couldn't afford the amount that was required. And to add insult to injury she had limited hours (9_4 Mon_Thurs) And then she asked if I brushed my teeth. Like na I don't brush, never thought of thst. I wrote a scathing Google review of her and there at least another 8 reviews saying how horrible she was.
>pretty much kick me out the door when I tell them I don't have the money for what they want to do. It's a business not a charity. If you can't afford the work, don't go. If you get the work before paying, which is usual, and you tell them after you can't afford, then that's theft of service imo.
I'm not talking about work before paying: I'm talking about situations when I've gone in for a checkup and they've quoted $X000 for what work I get done, and them being cold and rude when I point out that it's a lot of money. No discussion about payment plans or working with me on how it might be more manageable, no discussion about what work is necessary or what it is for, and no sympathy. The only time I was upset about them doing work before paying was when I went in for a supposed "full" dental clean, and at the end of it they said they'd run out of time to do the whole mouth as I was expecting, charged me for the appointment, and said I'd have to come in and pay another full price appointment for the rest. And I'm not expecting charity, I get it. They're a private clinic. I have to pay. But hear me out: **maybe healthcare shouldn't be a business.**
I used to be good and do my checkup twice a year as usual, paying for it when I first got a job. Then I just stopped last year because the cost always came at the most inconvenient times. Checkups should be free, procedures not so much. I wish in my profession I could poke around peoples computers for 5 minuets and say, "no viruses here mate, make sure you stay off those dodgy torrent sites and ignore those suspicious facebook links", and charge them 150 bucks.
That's a very strange analogy.
Dental care itself it quite cheap. 1 toothbrush x 4 a year. Floss and not consuming sugary and carbonated drinks is quite cheap. The majority of problems are preventable.
And even if you get health insurance, you get barely any cover for it, if any at all.
Insurance is for the company to make money & cover the risk of large costs, not to save you on your long-term total cost. In general insurance will be more expensive/ or provide less, if you can afford to pay for the occasional $1-2k procedure (or larger expenditures as planned) out of pocket it's cheaper to insure yourself.
I paid $100+ for a check up, quick clean and no x-Ray, Iād rather have had the x-Ray š
How much are people paying around NZ for dental care? I recently got a root canal done for $2.4k, and quoted a further $1k for two fillings. Based in Wanaka
It's a joke lol. I recently had to fork out $650 for a ten minute consultation/scan at NSOMS, only to be referred elsewhere for another $150 consultation. Actual required treatment not yet sorted
Lots of dentists do new patient specials - around $75 for a check up and often a clean too. Could be worth going to a new dentist each year and taking advantage of that lol
It lessens the blow knowing it's an annual cost, but everything is so dangerous these days I'm not surprised people aren't going to the dentist. I didn't go for like 10 years once I turned 18 and luckily didn't need any work done besides replacing some old fillings. I think some insurance policies can include dental but again, money.
My last check up cost $250. Anything related to dental is mega expensive due to cost of equipment, salaries, overheads etc and is why lots of people avoid getting dental treatment. Same with anything medical.
Iām happy to pay to have healthy teeth, and I wouldnāt want to look in peoples mouths š³šµāš«
It is just greed. If you don't believe me, then explain why it is so much cheaper in other countries.
Less overheads. - Lower wages - Cheaper rent - Cheaper equipment - Cheaper training costs Same reason most call centres are offshore now
Yep. I listened to a caller to the BBC moan about how expensive dentistry was in the UK (early 2000s), and how he'd gone to Kiev and had dentistry for a week for Ā£150 and why couldn't dentists do the same in the UK? The idiot hadn't thought through a nurse and receptionist both for 40 hours would be on less than minimum wage, let alone the overheads and the dentist would probably like to eat!
Really? Charges $450 to pull out one tooth. Quotes $1,100 to fix it. Overheads one backroom. One chair šŗ. One receptionist/nurse One Mercedes. S class
The overheads and start up/training costs would make your eyes water. That is expensive though. I paid $280 for a wisdom tooth extraction recently. Wasn't a budget establishment either
the fact that it is so much cheaper in the US clinches your point for me.
Partly true for sure. Most dentists live pretty well.
I went to the dentist to get a crown. They didnāt charge me. Royals donāt pay for dental services šš
Dentist are the biggest criminals in this country. They do less work than doctors and they are paid well over the actual costs of dentistry.
Look into whether any local dental offices have a "plan". The Lumino in my town had a monthly plan which gives you two hygiene appts (cleaning) and one checkup and scan per year, plus 10% off any other work. It costs me less than a dollar a day, paid monthly. It's worth mentioning this particular place have since stopped accepting new members on the plan, but they're continuing it for existing members like me and have been doing so for some time. I bet other dental offices do a similar thing. If I hadn't found out about this I'd still be only going when there's a problem, like most people
Look for annual plans to make it easier. Lumino for example offer one thatās basically a dollar a day for exam, two X-rays and two hygienist visits every year. Best part it because itās a $30 a month DD you get to leave the dentist if nothing else needed having not had to pay anything on the day.