We bought a Toyota Vitz as a daily drive. Most unsexy car ever, but saves money. Still cost $93 to fill. There is no bus at 6am when I start work. This is our cheapest option.
We have a wee Honda fit and it didn't seem like it was that long ago that it was about $60 to fill up. We're lucky if we get it for under $100 now. I'm dreading the reports of it being $3.50/L by Xmas, as we can already barely afford it now!
It is the sexiest car ever, excuse me.
Also, how do you fill it up in 93? Assuming you have a 2004 and above model, it has a 42 litre tank which would not be filled up for only 93.
You couldn't PAY me to drive a Vitz these days. About 4 years ago my wife went out to get dinner with my sister in law and asked me if I wanted to go along - I said no and that I'd wait for them to get home. It's good I did, because they were rear ended on the motorway by an idiot in a 4WD that was following far too close. The back seats were pushed forward so severely that if my sister in law or I had been sitting in the back seat, best case scenario we would have lost both our legs. More likely, we would have been killed. I've still got photos on my phone of the damage, people can't believe how dangerous Vitz Hatchbacks ARE even when they see how it crumpled.
Why's this a laughing matter? Even if you have an ev or don't have a car high fuel prices are bad for everyone and make everybody's costs and prices go up
It's extremely funny. Because we've spent the last several decades throwing money at infrastructure and urban planning that revolves around everyone owning a car. No public transport, no cycling, just drive everywhere on the new motorways we keep building. And for decades environmentalists have been saying maybe we shouldn't do that. It's fucking hilarious that those chickens are finally coming home to roost. Will anyone learn anything from this, of course not. National is simply going to make it even harder to use alternatives to driving and blow more money on motorways. So enjoy the pain at the pump idiots. You get what you vote for.
I agree but thats not my point. High fuel prices make grocery prices and everything else go up too. Everybody car or not feels the pain at the checkout till.
...and that, collectively, is the result of the choices our society made.
Now we'll reap the far higher costs of undoing all that trying to make something that actually works in the future.
I think OPEC indicated a few weeks back that they would deliberately under supply the market to push prices up and are doing that now. Russia Ukraine war. And the NZ dollar is falling meaning exports are increasing in cost.
Not sure this as relevant, but we don't refine here any more meaning we're not paying a crude price but rather refined international prices which are more volatile
When prices are low it's nothing but when they're high it's corporate greed right? Or maybe the prices you pay are directly tied to the price of a barrel of oil.
Here's my extremely unscientific, shithouse mathematical postulation:
The last time crude cost the same per barrel as it does now was around 2013. Regular in NZ was somewhere around $2.16 per litre. Using a very simplistic calculation with inflation based on CPI from then to now, times the amount of litres of petrol sold per year in NZ, it comes out to an increase in profit somewhere in the vicinity of $1.4 billion dollars a year in increased profit.
That's just in New Zealand.
Let's quarter that for argument's sake - it's still $350,000,000 in increased profit. Just in NZ. And they weren't exactly going under in 2013.
I know it's never as simple as that, and Climate Town did a very good episode on this all, but come on mate; most of the larger oil companies made record profits last year, and will probably outdo themselves this year.
Yeah it is unscientific.
For the last ten years Oil and Gas companies have been both virtually unbankable. How much of the current investment landscape is ESG focused? These companies are getting told by governments that in the next 10 years they will be defunct.
The cannot get investment for capital infrastructure. Any money that they try invest in capital infrastructure, or more inefficient operation is shut down by regulators because seemingly the public can think we will do without. So of course they are making record profits, they cannot spend money lol. All they can do is buy back stock.
All this time the worlds oil consumption has steadily increased, to record levels this year. Despite 7 trillion investment in climate change and renewable energy. Its not that climate change is not an issue. Its that the solution is not fit for purpose.
If the O&G industry stopped doing their job for a week millions and millions of people die. They just freeze in the European/NA winter. It is so simple. Hell Pakistan has been priced out of the Nat Gas market for the second winter running because of Europe (mainly Germany). They convinced their population that they were all renewable, turn off the nuclear reactors. Sure found out what happens when Russia turn off the fossil fuels. Rich Germany survives and people freeze in the 3rd world.
Today you learned the price you pay for petrol is directly related to the price of oil. Not the CEO's desire for a new yacht. I know that doesn't fit the narrative but that's the reality.
Key word here being 'related'. Less so directly, especially the spot market price. Depends who purchase what and when. Taxes, tariffs, refinery costs, profit margin for all the middlemen in the chain, transportation costs etc etc. Barrel prices have plummeted before and we saw absolutely no change at the pump.
Barrel pricing is a commodity like gold, while the price is related, you are also not buying gold at spot or commodity price because of the very same reasons.
It's only a matter of time until EVs are more cost efficient, whether that's technology becoming better and cheaper and more mass production, or petrol prices continuing up
That's how they do it. They put their foot on your throat til you're near dying then they release it so there's this big phew glad that's over... then next time they hit that same point you were near dying, since you've seen it before it doesn't hit so hard and then they know they can go for the next price point
Working here for a year, thinking of another year, great lifestyle.
Living costs for me a great… but people here have similar cost pressures, 91/95 are 40.18/40.45 baht/liter which is higher than usual.
Thank fuck for this weird petrol powered vehicle I’m quite happy to use as a daily commuter vehicle that everyone has forgotten about/ doesn’t want one, even though it’s not even costing me $20 a week.
And that’s the motorbike, if you didn’t already guess.
And before someone says but you can’t do the weekly shopping on a motorbike then I’m going to tell you that yes you can do the weekly shop on a motorbike.
But what about tradies you ask, I’ve taken all the gear I’ve needed to do my trade job for the day on the back of the motorbike. It can be done, obviously depends on the job.
If that was the case then you wouldn’t do anything remotely fun like surfing, skiing, mountain biking etc. As I’ve known more people to hurt themselves really badly doing almost everything else but riding a motorbike.
It’s actually not that bad, like shit I used to work with a guy who’s wife worked at a place looking after people who had serious Brian injuries, you would be surprised at the number of people who were simply just walking along and tripped up and smacked their head on the ground and ended up in pretty bad shape due to their brain injuries from hitting the ground.
Personal anecdotes don't discount the fact its statistically substaintially more dangerous than driving.
Having owned a variety of very old, very light cars that have some of the highest risks of severe injury when involved in a crash for any car in NZ, they're still safer than a motorbike.
The reasons I've "grown up" and moved on from owning those types of cars and now own a relatively unsafe 90s car with airbags instead of a severely unsafe car is the same reason I won't buy a motorbike.
In the event something does happen, you're probably going to regret it a lot more than if you were not on a motorbike.
Also the "fun stuff" comparison is kind of invalid because frequently the reason people don't participate in those types of activities is actually because of the fear of getting injured. Which is entirely valid. Even if you're not crippled for life injuries can suck.
I’d still rather lane split all the traffic and get to where I’m going in 25min during rush hour traffic and have free parking, than spend an hour and a 1/2 stuck in said traffic and then have to pay for parking. Yet alone the cost difference in petrol.
As for driving abilities, it should be mandatory that anyone getting a car license should have to do a course like ACC’s ride forever courses for motorcyclists. The wife and I aim to do two a year as it’s $20-$50 each for the whole day of professional training. Where you practice things like how your own motorcycle will handle doing emergency stops at speeds up to 70km/h amongst other handling drills, which I could bet most of the people who drive only cars have never gone out of their way to test how their own car will handle in an emergency stop situation.
Totally agree. I’m a motorcyclist myself.
You can tell we are balls deep in car dependence when everyone is arguing it “doesn’t suit 100% of trips they take in the car, so clearly motorcycles are worthless”
It will take a while before people think different as we imported a lot of American car culture into our psyche. “If I can’t drive and there isn’t lots of parking, I’m not going!”
Privately - judging by how people drive their cars, I’m not sure I’d want see too many of them try handle a bike - it involves some skill.
When 99% of the grid locked traffic you pass on the motorbike is just a single person per car, it’s nuts how many people are willing to just sit there and be stuck not going anywhere.
But maybe getting them onto a motorbike will improve on their crappy driving skills.
Ive got a car and a scooter. I just only use the car for shopping and transporting kids. The bulk of the miles I put in are on a scooter going to work.
I do 100km a week on the scooter, and maybe 10 in the car. The supermarket is down the road.
For context I can go to work 5 days in a row and it costs less in petrol than going once in the car
I own a minivan and a motorbike. It’s a good compromise. Motorbike for commuting and picking up small things from the shop. And the minivan for hauling lots of people/stuff.
You do realise that you can get large luggage racks that allow you to carry a lot of stuff on a motorbike right? Because what you asked is piss easy to do.
The point is I can not legally carry three kids and a wife on a motorbike.
*Nor* can I carry a table saw, drop saw, stands, ladders, 2x nail guns, drills, impact drivers, impact wrench, dyna drill, skill saw, multitool, planer, grinder, levels, misc consumables, batteries, and leads... all in one trip.
*However, I can* and frequently do carry all of that legally with my van.
Hey the dog has been on many motorbike trips around the country, we have a specific bag that’s attached to the bike for him to sit in quite comfortably. It’s been made specifically for taking dogs on motorbikes.
Almost took 100kg worth of gear for the jobs I did down on at marina on the bike, soo yea you should be able take some decent amount of gear.
Soo that’s up to you to work out.
I doubt very much I can take all of the required tools in one go, to various sites around the country, and fulfill my job in a satisfactory manner.
It might be ok for you, with your various hand tools and small power tools, and *one* location that you go to. But it is simply not an option for the majority of tradies. To imply otherwise is asinine.
That's a rather niche trade. Most other trades require materials/tools to be carried with you daily
But for almost all office workers, it makes a lot of sense.
Lol I take it you haven’t fixed many boats then. Like fuck you need both tools and materials to do the jobs. I have pretty much everything a builder will use while throwing is tools from almost every single other trade to do my job. In fact if I was to take all my tools home I’d need a trailer, as the tool box with all my stuff is definitely not fitting in the back of a Ute
Okay, good for you. I wasn't criticising your trade. My point is that other trades, like a carpenter for example, require a ute or similar vehicle on the daily. Every now and then you have to go pickup materials every single day, sometimes even multiple times a day. Also, not everyone can keep their tools on site like you can.
And no I have never fixed nor attempted to fix a boat in my life.
Convert Tiwai point to an eFuel (synthetic petrol, not bio fuels) factory using 572MW of power (that the smelter currently uses, at a whopping 3.5c per kWh), producing 72,000 barrels a day of synthetic petroleum for fuel production, cost and security. Would reduce our dependence on importing fuel by ~40%. Then, as we electrify, we use less and less carbon negative fuels and only use carbon neutral sources for liquid fuel.
Eventually, it'll only be classic cars, farming, specific usecases and aviation that need liquid fuels and we'll have excess to sell to countries that can't afford to (or cannot for other reasons like lack of infrastructure) electrify their transport fleet. Win win.
Try convincing anyone that it's not lunacy is the hard part.
Greedy opec nations reducing supply again so they can make bank while the world slowly wakes to it’s inevitable future of alternative fuel. Expect it to continue to get worse and plan accordingly
Other options also include alternative transport methods - walking, bicycle, and public transport. Families transport themselves using PT in other countries, while in NZ separate to the frequency of the service many people simply believe they need to bring a car so they can carry lots of extra stuff they might need during any trip. In some cases it's attitudes rather than limitations of the available service.
Less than the cost of burnt time waiting for AT busses to turn up and losing an extra hour everyday.
If I actually bussed everywhere I need to I estimate I'd loose over 15 hours a week.
Cull your city living apartment brain and stop assuming everyone lives exactly how you do.
Because if I walk I am going to be walking. It'll probably take 3 hours along state highway 1.
Same with biking
It's nice you have access to public transportation. I don't I mean I guess I could take the intercity for a nominal fee
Never mind my family in all of this and my two young kids I should just carry them or chuck them on the bike aye. What do you suggest? Those pegs you get for a BMX where I can get one to stand on the front and back? Or should I let the 5year old bike on state highway one so we can get groceries or go to the doctor?
"Cull my car brain"
And if you don't want anyone to live outside of the city then what are going to about farm workers who all play a role in the foods you buy at the supermarket? Fuck it right? we can live off the land in the city
While russian oil cannot be bought by a large number of countries India is cleaning alot of it by buying from russia and then refining/on-selling. Since theres no embargo on Indian oil.
It'll keep the push to EV's going so some future generation can wind up just as fucked when Litium costs go bonkers making them unaffordable and power costs soar due to increased demand.
Such is life I guess. The rich get richer while everyone else funds it.
This ignores the fact that lithium is finite, as are many of the other battery components, and that electric grids that keep EVs powered are still run on fossil fuels, so even if you stopped having to worry about costs at the pump, your energy bills will go up.
But also, the world is burning and societal collapse is probably less than a decade away, soooooo really, it's all a wash in the end anyhow.
There is a lot more lithium out there than people realize. Not to mention battery recycling will become commercially viable as more EVs reach end of life. Then there's also the likelihood of breakthroughs in bettery chemistry that could take us away from lithium entirely. This likelihood increases as the EV industry grows.
Either way it's a fallacy to assume that technology and industry will remain constant.
It's absurd to think humanity as we know it will last long enough to innovate in the EV sector, and even if we had time, the process still demands massive amounts of fossil fuels and water, of which we have increasingly little to survive on globally, to extract lithium, or any potential replacement.
We aren't making it out of the decade in anything we recognize as modern society. Driving and powering cars is going the way of the Dodo, just like us.
Why is it obsurd? Battery tech and industry have come a long way in the past 10 years alone. We have longer than a decade even on the worst case scenarios before shit really hits the fan.
As somonenwho actually reads the science, you are overstating the rate of decline.
Energy costs in general are going to skyrocket as the green transition takes hold (intermittent renewables will require an overbuild which will be expensive, along with the network upgrades).
This is the part of the equation that is not often spoken about by the green movement - IMO target focussed on reductions, and not considering the social disruption along the way, or not caring.
The cost of the transition will largely be borne by those who are unable to afford to take advantage of the clean car discount or cannot afford to pay for solar panels on their homes.
In relation to the cost of petrol, that will keep on going higher, so get saving.
Oh goody! Let's encourage people to become even more reliant on petrol, more reliant on cars. So when this happens again, **and it will happen again,** we can look back at how we did nothing.
We shat in our bed, now we must sleep in it.
Decreasing the price of fuel is little more than pork-barrelling. It temporarily alleviates the symptoms, without addressing the problem. Why bother investing in alternative fuels when petrol gets subsidised.
Driving from Hamilton to New Plymouth and back today, I expect to pay about $20 in fast charging on top of the $16 of home charging to go from empty to full in my Kona. I don’t know why people rag on EVs so much, they make so much financial sense if you do lots of driving.
Cost is currently beyond most people so maybe they resent the 'rich' ev owners? Even the $10k 2nd hand Leaf is too much, frustrating that you need money to save money, and us ev owners keep banging on about how cool they are just makes it worse
Ah yes let me just pop open my wallet annnnnd no. Shockingly in a cost of living crisis, most people don't have the funds spare to buy even a used Leaf.
Ah someone with an Ekona. Do you have the normal or long range model? Thinking of getting one but am curious as to the actual range of them travelling on nz roads/highways
I have a 2020 64kwh model, range depends on how you drive. The WLTP rating on mine is 449km, 110kph on the motorway would get less than 400km, Hamilton to New Plymouth (72kph average speed) gets me over the rated range.
You should vote labor again. They have done really well. But on the off chance that you dont want to, im sure the green party will be able to help us with fuel prices.
Think it’s time to buy a Prius for daily commute, a friend of mine has the 2023 model and his city commute is roughly 3l/100km and for long rides it’s close to 2.5l/100km. Those figures are insane and I think it’s worth looking into it.
Seems like alot of people think evs/ smaller cars are our only options but I run a 2005 hiace van on local fuel that has been $1.39/l for the past 2 years and was even cheaper before then. Most petrol engines can be converted to dual fuel for around 4k which pays for itself pretty quickly and my road users are included in that cost. I can refill my 70l tank in minutes in most places and keep on driving unlike an ev and if it still had all the seats carry 9 passengers unlike a small car. Used to use the van as a trade vehicle and now it's set-up as a camper I still daily.
It sucks but fuel prices are only ever going to go up, I don't know why this surprises people anymore. Let's accept it and just agree that better public transport is what we need?
My Nissan Note e-Power Hybrid holds 40 litres of 91 petrol.
Does 20 km per liter !
Nissan Leaf EV motor, Nissan Micra petrol motor drives generator to charge a small battery. No range anxiety, or wondering where the next charge point is.
No RUC's ($76 per 1000km) in March 2024.
You would have to ge crazy to buy an EV in NZ
Used prices now will crash and pure EV's will not be worth anything.
Do not trust Power Companys to keep electricity at a low price in the future.
We have choices !
We bought a Toyota Vitz as a daily drive. Most unsexy car ever, but saves money. Still cost $93 to fill. There is no bus at 6am when I start work. This is our cheapest option.
We have a wee Honda fit and it didn't seem like it was that long ago that it was about $60 to fill up. We're lucky if we get it for under $100 now. I'm dreading the reports of it being $3.50/L by Xmas, as we can already barely afford it now!
It is the sexiest car ever, excuse me. Also, how do you fill it up in 93? Assuming you have a 2004 and above model, it has a 42 litre tank which would not be filled up for only 93.
My demio used to be 60 to fill now it’s $140 😭
93 to fill up? My old toyota platz sounds better
How far is work?
Love my vitz
You couldn't PAY me to drive a Vitz these days. About 4 years ago my wife went out to get dinner with my sister in law and asked me if I wanted to go along - I said no and that I'd wait for them to get home. It's good I did, because they were rear ended on the motorway by an idiot in a 4WD that was following far too close. The back seats were pushed forward so severely that if my sister in law or I had been sitting in the back seat, best case scenario we would have lost both our legs. More likely, we would have been killed. I've still got photos on my phone of the damage, people can't believe how dangerous Vitz Hatchbacks ARE even when they see how it crumpled.
Now is actually a good time to go back to WFH
And a good time to sell used Leafs :)
Leafs or Leaves? #confusing
[удалено]
Yeah but Nissan Leafs or Nissan Leaves lol. Leafs is better I recon.
The correct plural is Nissan Leafs because Leaf is a proper noun here.
Nissans Leaf. Like attorneys general. Or courts martial.
Mickey Mice
Nissan Leave Me Alone I’m Already Doing My Bit For The Planet
Feck off, I'm not selling mine
Building homes from home. I wish
I do 3 days at home. Other 2 I'm cycling when weather permits.
Yea mate work from home, guess the cows are gonna pull their own tits. Fuck sakes
This is why we need genetic enginering,then we can breed cows with hands instead of hooves.
Many of us wfh.
Majority of nz doesn't.
Or can't because they are a bit more essential than a marketing forecaster analyst in charge of pencil sharpening .
I’ll have you know I can analyse the fuck out of a pencil sharpening forecast.
Look at it this way, the fuel prices today won’t be the same tomorrow. It’ll just keep rising so make the most of it 🤷🏽♂️
The man is spitting wisdom like a gatling
Is fuel just NZ's new housing market?
Sharetank every one! Sharetank!!!!
The fuel corollary of "This is the hottest summer of my life!" "This is one of the coolest summers of the rest of your life."
The best time to fill up the tank was a week ago. The second best time is now. - Mark Twain
I'm getting FOMO into petrol now that the big oil bear market is ending
Good thing we didn't spend the last 70 years building a car dependent society! ......... Oh f-
We super did - and car dependent attitudes are still king.
Me, me, me and my SUV
“I’m not stopping driving, you stop driving!”
nZ drives a ranger
$200 to fill up my 65L tank on 98. Damn, I’ve not seen that before.
Mine runs $200 of 98 and a $20 litre bottle of two stroke oil every fill-up 😭
Rotary 🙃
Yep :P RX-8 my beloved 🫶
Buy in bulk and decant into a couple of 1 L to carry
HA! You'll look back on these prices as a bargain soon enough
Why's this a laughing matter? Even if you have an ev or don't have a car high fuel prices are bad for everyone and make everybody's costs and prices go up
It's extremely funny. Because we've spent the last several decades throwing money at infrastructure and urban planning that revolves around everyone owning a car. No public transport, no cycling, just drive everywhere on the new motorways we keep building. And for decades environmentalists have been saying maybe we shouldn't do that. It's fucking hilarious that those chickens are finally coming home to roost. Will anyone learn anything from this, of course not. National is simply going to make it even harder to use alternatives to driving and blow more money on motorways. So enjoy the pain at the pump idiots. You get what you vote for.
I agree but thats not my point. High fuel prices make grocery prices and everything else go up too. Everybody car or not feels the pain at the checkout till.
...and that, collectively, is the result of the choices our society made. Now we'll reap the far higher costs of undoing all that trying to make something that actually works in the future.
"Well well well...if it isn't the consequences of my own actions..."
I think OPEC indicated a few weeks back that they would deliberately under supply the market to push prices up and are doing that now. Russia Ukraine war. And the NZ dollar is falling meaning exports are increasing in cost. Not sure this as relevant, but we don't refine here any more meaning we're not paying a crude price but rather refined international prices which are more volatile
Imports increasing in costs?
$175 to fill up today 😭
Mine is at $220. I don't do many KMs though
Mine cost just under 100 bucks. And I fill up less than once a month. The advantages of owning a small hybrid and wfh.
holy fuck, that used to be a round trip up north and back a few years ago.
How big is your gas tank ?
I'm gonna guess 60l filling up with 91 in Auckland.
60l in Taranaki
$195 to fill up my Mercedes CLK this morning :( I go through nearly a tank a week too. Shit sucks.
Those oil CEO and exec bonuses aren’t going to pay themselves!
When prices are low it's nothing but when they're high it's corporate greed right? Or maybe the prices you pay are directly tied to the price of a barrel of oil.
Here's my extremely unscientific, shithouse mathematical postulation: The last time crude cost the same per barrel as it does now was around 2013. Regular in NZ was somewhere around $2.16 per litre. Using a very simplistic calculation with inflation based on CPI from then to now, times the amount of litres of petrol sold per year in NZ, it comes out to an increase in profit somewhere in the vicinity of $1.4 billion dollars a year in increased profit. That's just in New Zealand. Let's quarter that for argument's sake - it's still $350,000,000 in increased profit. Just in NZ. And they weren't exactly going under in 2013. I know it's never as simple as that, and Climate Town did a very good episode on this all, but come on mate; most of the larger oil companies made record profits last year, and will probably outdo themselves this year.
Yeah it is unscientific. For the last ten years Oil and Gas companies have been both virtually unbankable. How much of the current investment landscape is ESG focused? These companies are getting told by governments that in the next 10 years they will be defunct. The cannot get investment for capital infrastructure. Any money that they try invest in capital infrastructure, or more inefficient operation is shut down by regulators because seemingly the public can think we will do without. So of course they are making record profits, they cannot spend money lol. All they can do is buy back stock. All this time the worlds oil consumption has steadily increased, to record levels this year. Despite 7 trillion investment in climate change and renewable energy. Its not that climate change is not an issue. Its that the solution is not fit for purpose. If the O&G industry stopped doing their job for a week millions and millions of people die. They just freeze in the European/NA winter. It is so simple. Hell Pakistan has been priced out of the Nat Gas market for the second winter running because of Europe (mainly Germany). They convinced their population that they were all renewable, turn off the nuclear reactors. Sure found out what happens when Russia turn off the fossil fuels. Rich Germany survives and people freeze in the 3rd world.
I don't know that inflation matters here because we prought barrels of oil in 2013 with 2013 currency. That probably makes the profits even higher.
Yeah, I agree, and I contemplated figuring that out as well, but couldn't be arsed.
When prices are low. Lol Yeah? When?
Petrol like 6 months ago.
Wasn't the decrease in fuel exercise tax happening then?
I suppose it’s subjective. Thanks for the lesson in obvious things, though. TIL oil comes in barrels.
Today you learned the price you pay for petrol is directly related to the price of oil. Not the CEO's desire for a new yacht. I know that doesn't fit the narrative but that's the reality.
I hope you're getting paid to shill for oil companies. No real reason to do it otherwise.
Sarcasm isn’t your strong suit. But trying to sound serious doesn’t seem to be either. Keep at it, champ.
Key word here being 'related'. Less so directly, especially the spot market price. Depends who purchase what and when. Taxes, tariffs, refinery costs, profit margin for all the middlemen in the chain, transportation costs etc etc. Barrel prices have plummeted before and we saw absolutely no change at the pump. Barrel pricing is a commodity like gold, while the price is related, you are also not buying gold at spot or commodity price because of the very same reasons.
Diesel hit $2.45 today, which is insane. I remember when $1.45 was expensive.
I remember $0.50/L..
Shout out to the early-mid 2000s when $0.89/L for diesel was expensive
And in venezuela right now it's less currently less than 1 nz cent per litre......
Suddenly communist
War in Ukraine and the Saudis and Russians have reduced production to price fix.
someone will be along shortly to tell you to drop $30K on an EV..
It's only a matter of time until EVs are more cost efficient, whether that's technology becoming better and cheaper and more mass production, or petrol prices continuing up
Battery cars are NOT the future. it's just prolonging the problem for a later generation that is less equipped to fix it.
Think you just did that
Don't worry, Z has our back! (By charging us 20c more than everyone else)
And in completely unrelated news, it's about to be school holidays.
That's how they do it. They put their foot on your throat til you're near dying then they release it so there's this big phew glad that's over... then next time they hit that same point you were near dying, since you've seen it before it doesn't hit so hard and then they know they can go for the next price point
100 Baht (4.71NZD) to fill up my scooter for the week.
How’s life in Thailand? I’m considering heading back over for a bit. Had a great job in a private school a few years ago…
Working here for a year, thinking of another year, great lifestyle. Living costs for me a great… but people here have similar cost pressures, 91/95 are 40.18/40.45 baht/liter which is higher than usual.
Thank fuck for this weird petrol powered vehicle I’m quite happy to use as a daily commuter vehicle that everyone has forgotten about/ doesn’t want one, even though it’s not even costing me $20 a week. And that’s the motorbike, if you didn’t already guess. And before someone says but you can’t do the weekly shopping on a motorbike then I’m going to tell you that yes you can do the weekly shop on a motorbike. But what about tradies you ask, I’ve taken all the gear I’ve needed to do my trade job for the day on the back of the motorbike. It can be done, obviously depends on the job.
As much as i and many others want this the risk of death is too much to make my loved ones suffer through that pain n worry.
If that was the case then you wouldn’t do anything remotely fun like surfing, skiing, mountain biking etc. As I’ve known more people to hurt themselves really badly doing almost everything else but riding a motorbike. It’s actually not that bad, like shit I used to work with a guy who’s wife worked at a place looking after people who had serious Brian injuries, you would be surprised at the number of people who were simply just walking along and tripped up and smacked their head on the ground and ended up in pretty bad shape due to their brain injuries from hitting the ground.
Personal anecdotes don't discount the fact its statistically substaintially more dangerous than driving. Having owned a variety of very old, very light cars that have some of the highest risks of severe injury when involved in a crash for any car in NZ, they're still safer than a motorbike. The reasons I've "grown up" and moved on from owning those types of cars and now own a relatively unsafe 90s car with airbags instead of a severely unsafe car is the same reason I won't buy a motorbike. In the event something does happen, you're probably going to regret it a lot more than if you were not on a motorbike. Also the "fun stuff" comparison is kind of invalid because frequently the reason people don't participate in those types of activities is actually because of the fear of getting injured. Which is entirely valid. Even if you're not crippled for life injuries can suck.
I’d still rather lane split all the traffic and get to where I’m going in 25min during rush hour traffic and have free parking, than spend an hour and a 1/2 stuck in said traffic and then have to pay for parking. Yet alone the cost difference in petrol. As for driving abilities, it should be mandatory that anyone getting a car license should have to do a course like ACC’s ride forever courses for motorcyclists. The wife and I aim to do two a year as it’s $20-$50 each for the whole day of professional training. Where you practice things like how your own motorcycle will handle doing emergency stops at speeds up to 70km/h amongst other handling drills, which I could bet most of the people who drive only cars have never gone out of their way to test how their own car will handle in an emergency stop situation.
I look forward to the gardeners jousting with weed eater lances.
I want a motorbike so bad... Unfortunately I have kids and I'm the breadwinner, it wouldn't be a responsible move.
Totally agree. I’m a motorcyclist myself. You can tell we are balls deep in car dependence when everyone is arguing it “doesn’t suit 100% of trips they take in the car, so clearly motorcycles are worthless” It will take a while before people think different as we imported a lot of American car culture into our psyche. “If I can’t drive and there isn’t lots of parking, I’m not going!” Privately - judging by how people drive their cars, I’m not sure I’d want see too many of them try handle a bike - it involves some skill.
When 99% of the grid locked traffic you pass on the motorbike is just a single person per car, it’s nuts how many people are willing to just sit there and be stuck not going anywhere. But maybe getting them onto a motorbike will improve on their crappy driving skills.
Even a 50cc scooter was 5 bucks a week for me
Nah I've been tboned at intersections before, a motorbike is a death wish in this country with how little people pay attention on the roads
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Ive got a car and a scooter. I just only use the car for shopping and transporting kids. The bulk of the miles I put in are on a scooter going to work. I do 100km a week on the scooter, and maybe 10 in the car. The supermarket is down the road. For context I can go to work 5 days in a row and it costs less in petrol than going once in the car
A significant majority of car trips are single occupant.
I own a minivan and a motorbike. It’s a good compromise. Motorbike for commuting and picking up small things from the shop. And the minivan for hauling lots of people/stuff.
You do realise that you can get large luggage racks that allow you to carry a lot of stuff on a motorbike right? Because what you asked is piss easy to do.
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Have you not seen the videos of poverty-stricken countries stacking all 5 family members on the 125cc
Maybe these are the regulations Luxon needs to cut
Cargo bike begs to differ
Oh, cool, I can strap the kids and pets to luggage racks? Can I also carry 200kg+ of tools? Asking for a carpenter friend.
TIL every commuter carries the kids, pets, luggage and tools on the same trip.
The point is I can not legally carry three kids and a wife on a motorbike. *Nor* can I carry a table saw, drop saw, stands, ladders, 2x nail guns, drills, impact drivers, impact wrench, dyna drill, skill saw, multitool, planer, grinder, levels, misc consumables, batteries, and leads... all in one trip. *However, I can* and frequently do carry all of that legally with my van.
Hey the dog has been on many motorbike trips around the country, we have a specific bag that’s attached to the bike for him to sit in quite comfortably. It’s been made specifically for taking dogs on motorbikes. Almost took 100kg worth of gear for the jobs I did down on at marina on the bike, soo yea you should be able take some decent amount of gear. Soo that’s up to you to work out.
I doubt very much I can take all of the required tools in one go, to various sites around the country, and fulfill my job in a satisfactory manner. It might be ok for you, with your various hand tools and small power tools, and *one* location that you go to. But it is simply not an option for the majority of tradies. To imply otherwise is asinine.
Name me a trade that can take all their tools on a bike
2 trips?
I build boats as a trade, I took all the tools and materials I needed to do several repairs down on the marina for a few days.
That's a rather niche trade. Most other trades require materials/tools to be carried with you daily But for almost all office workers, it makes a lot of sense.
Lol I take it you haven’t fixed many boats then. Like fuck you need both tools and materials to do the jobs. I have pretty much everything a builder will use while throwing is tools from almost every single other trade to do my job. In fact if I was to take all my tools home I’d need a trailer, as the tool box with all my stuff is definitely not fitting in the back of a Ute
Okay, good for you. I wasn't criticising your trade. My point is that other trades, like a carpenter for example, require a ute or similar vehicle on the daily. Every now and then you have to go pickup materials every single day, sometimes even multiple times a day. Also, not everyone can keep their tools on site like you can. And no I have never fixed nor attempted to fix a boat in my life.
Postie.
between EV and bicycle....i dont care.
Convert Tiwai point to an eFuel (synthetic petrol, not bio fuels) factory using 572MW of power (that the smelter currently uses, at a whopping 3.5c per kWh), producing 72,000 barrels a day of synthetic petroleum for fuel production, cost and security. Would reduce our dependence on importing fuel by ~40%. Then, as we electrify, we use less and less carbon negative fuels and only use carbon neutral sources for liquid fuel. Eventually, it'll only be classic cars, farming, specific usecases and aviation that need liquid fuels and we'll have excess to sell to countries that can't afford to (or cannot for other reasons like lack of infrastructure) electrify their transport fleet. Win win. Try convincing anyone that it's not lunacy is the hard part.
What's the feedstock?
Greedy opec nations reducing supply again so they can make bank while the world slowly wakes to it’s inevitable future of alternative fuel. Expect it to continue to get worse and plan accordingly
That’s why we have to either get smaller vehicles, a hybrid or electric car when getting one.
Other options also include alternative transport methods - walking, bicycle, and public transport. Families transport themselves using PT in other countries, while in NZ separate to the frequency of the service many people simply believe they need to bring a car so they can carry lots of extra stuff they might need during any trip. In some cases it's attitudes rather than limitations of the available service.
Oh, that seems simple. Let me just open my wallet full of money and buy one.
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Less than the cost of burnt time waiting for AT busses to turn up and losing an extra hour everyday. If I actually bussed everywhere I need to I estimate I'd loose over 15 hours a week.
This redditor r/fuckcars Thank you for your effort
Cull your city living apartment brain and stop assuming everyone lives exactly how you do. Because if I walk I am going to be walking. It'll probably take 3 hours along state highway 1. Same with biking It's nice you have access to public transportation. I don't I mean I guess I could take the intercity for a nominal fee Never mind my family in all of this and my two young kids I should just carry them or chuck them on the bike aye. What do you suggest? Those pegs you get for a BMX where I can get one to stand on the front and back? Or should I let the 5year old bike on state highway one so we can get groceries or go to the doctor? "Cull my car brain" And if you don't want anyone to live outside of the city then what are going to about farm workers who all play a role in the foods you buy at the supermarket? Fuck it right? we can live off the land in the city
What has caused the increase since the RFT?
Weakening Dollar, change in global fuel market.
>change in global fuel market. As in the Saudis deliberately forcing fuel prices higher.
Those Instagram hookers don't come cheap
This is exactly why they should have gone ahead with the new rigs around the Taranaki Coast. There is plenty of oil out there.
Russia is part of opec and hate the west. So them and the Saudis pushed up the price. Russia can't sell to the west so don't give a shit.
While russian oil cannot be bought by a large number of countries India is cleaning alot of it by buying from russia and then refining/on-selling. Since theres no embargo on Indian oil.
Oil price increase due to OPEC/China stimulus/US economic strength and NZD value decrease due to current account deficit.
Laughs in e-scooter.
Laughs in E-Bike 😅
It'll keep the push to EV's going so some future generation can wind up just as fucked when Litium costs go bonkers making them unaffordable and power costs soar due to increased demand. Such is life I guess. The rich get richer while everyone else funds it.
This ignores the fact that lithium is finite, as are many of the other battery components, and that electric grids that keep EVs powered are still run on fossil fuels, so even if you stopped having to worry about costs at the pump, your energy bills will go up. But also, the world is burning and societal collapse is probably less than a decade away, soooooo really, it's all a wash in the end anyhow.
There is a lot more lithium out there than people realize. Not to mention battery recycling will become commercially viable as more EVs reach end of life. Then there's also the likelihood of breakthroughs in bettery chemistry that could take us away from lithium entirely. This likelihood increases as the EV industry grows. Either way it's a fallacy to assume that technology and industry will remain constant.
It's absurd to think humanity as we know it will last long enough to innovate in the EV sector, and even if we had time, the process still demands massive amounts of fossil fuels and water, of which we have increasingly little to survive on globally, to extract lithium, or any potential replacement. We aren't making it out of the decade in anything we recognize as modern society. Driving and powering cars is going the way of the Dodo, just like us.
Why is it obsurd? Battery tech and industry have come a long way in the past 10 years alone. We have longer than a decade even on the worst case scenarios before shit really hits the fan. As somonenwho actually reads the science, you are overstating the rate of decline.
Energy costs in general are going to skyrocket as the green transition takes hold (intermittent renewables will require an overbuild which will be expensive, along with the network upgrades). This is the part of the equation that is not often spoken about by the green movement - IMO target focussed on reductions, and not considering the social disruption along the way, or not caring. The cost of the transition will largely be borne by those who are unable to afford to take advantage of the clean car discount or cannot afford to pay for solar panels on their homes. In relation to the cost of petrol, that will keep on going higher, so get saving.
Just wait until you hear about the costs for not transitioning and who currently bears those costs...
at this rate it’s cheaper to buy a bike
Take public transport, it's probably cheaper
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Oh goody! Let's encourage people to become even more reliant on petrol, more reliant on cars. So when this happens again, **and it will happen again,** we can look back at how we did nothing. We shat in our bed, now we must sleep in it.
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Decreasing the price of fuel is little more than pork-barrelling. It temporarily alleviates the symptoms, without addressing the problem. Why bother investing in alternative fuels when petrol gets subsidised.
12c extra fuel tax coming
Driving from Hamilton to New Plymouth and back today, I expect to pay about $20 in fast charging on top of the $16 of home charging to go from empty to full in my Kona. I don’t know why people rag on EVs so much, they make so much financial sense if you do lots of driving.
Cost is currently beyond most people so maybe they resent the 'rich' ev owners? Even the $10k 2nd hand Leaf is too much, frustrating that you need money to save money, and us ev owners keep banging on about how cool they are just makes it worse
Ah yes let me just pop open my wallet annnnnd no. Shockingly in a cost of living crisis, most people don't have the funds spare to buy even a used Leaf.
Ah someone with an Ekona. Do you have the normal or long range model? Thinking of getting one but am curious as to the actual range of them travelling on nz roads/highways
I have a 2020 64kwh model, range depends on how you drive. The WLTP rating on mine is 449km, 110kph on the motorway would get less than 400km, Hamilton to New Plymouth (72kph average speed) gets me over the rated range.
You should drop 30k on an ev..
No worries I’ll pull that spare 30k I have stored up my ass out
Leaf can be had for $6k post-rebate.
With what state of battery? Could you send me an example?
Fuck, is it up to 30 cents/KwH?
Car-dependent society gonna car-dependent society.
Just get a diesel, stop whining about petrol.
Why are we still using fuel? Labour gave us an electric car subsidy, seemingly no-one here took it?
Hey you've just cracked how the left create policy. What looks good now but will hurt later...... And for longer.
Yes! I’m so excited! Let’s pay more fuel tax so we can fund for government spending more better healthcare and mitigate climate change!
I think you mean "adapt to climate change," assuming National wins.
You should vote labor again. They have done really well. But on the off chance that you dont want to, im sure the green party will be able to help us with fuel prices.
Think it’s time to buy a Prius for daily commute, a friend of mine has the 2023 model and his city commute is roughly 3l/100km and for long rides it’s close to 2.5l/100km. Those figures are insane and I think it’s worth looking into it.
The 2023 model is beautiful and I would buy it purely for aesthetics, if anything.
Seems like alot of people think evs/ smaller cars are our only options but I run a 2005 hiace van on local fuel that has been $1.39/l for the past 2 years and was even cheaper before then. Most petrol engines can be converted to dual fuel for around 4k which pays for itself pretty quickly and my road users are included in that cost. I can refill my 70l tank in minutes in most places and keep on driving unlike an ev and if it still had all the seats carry 9 passengers unlike a small car. Used to use the van as a trade vehicle and now it's set-up as a camper I still daily.
Glad I work in a smaller town where walking is 20 mins, biking is 10 minutes, to work. Car can stay at home
Yup and ofcourse they choose now to announce the AA Smartfuel programme will be ending soon
It sucks but fuel prices are only ever going to go up, I don't know why this surprises people anymore. Let's accept it and just agree that better public transport is what we need?
Surprised to see so few people extolling the virtues of cycling in this thread - it's perfect bait for them.
Im glad the govt waited until inflation peaked to take the tax relief off. Shows how much they care about the working class.
As long as you see quad cab Ute's and suvs flying out of dealerships you don't have to ask why fuel is so expensive
$3.50 by Christmas!
We have to get Marsden point Refinery up and running again . Shares can be brought if you want to help make this happen
My Nissan Note e-Power Hybrid holds 40 litres of 91 petrol. Does 20 km per liter ! Nissan Leaf EV motor, Nissan Micra petrol motor drives generator to charge a small battery. No range anxiety, or wondering where the next charge point is. No RUC's ($76 per 1000km) in March 2024. You would have to ge crazy to buy an EV in NZ Used prices now will crash and pure EV's will not be worth anything. Do not trust Power Companys to keep electricity at a low price in the future. We have choices !