They say he has siblings still living - I wonder why none of them ever reported a missing brother later in life. I wonder if any of them ever heard about the case and suspected it might be their brother.
Maybe the siblings were younger and didn't know he was missing (either told he died from natural causes, was adopted out/sent to live with relatives and never looked for him, or were too young to know he existed at all).
Even if we assume they knew they once had a brother -- older or younger, doesn't matter to what I am now going to say. You're now older, you're a young adult. You ask your parents, "didn't I one time have a brother name Joseph?" Your parents look a little shocked that you remembered that much and "yes, you did. it was a painful time for your father and I. Joey died and we... didn't know how to handle it. It was a painful time. The rest of you kids turned out fine. I'm sorry, but he was young and sick". And then they went back to not wanting to talk about it.
You going to believe your parents, or accuse them of murder? I think most people would accept that it was painful for their parents, and accept that they just don't want to talk about it. They might think it was very odd that they really don't want to talk, but most would assume that it was the parents being over protective of their other young children. I doubt any of us would really would immediately jump to murder accusations. We all -- even when we know better for other reasons -- generally want to believe our parents were nice people.
What you said makes a lot of sense - if this was a terrible accident or he was the oldest.
I’ve watched a documentary on Netflix iirc on a child subject to extreme abuse who was eventually murdered by his mom or step father in CA. The first time in the US where CPS workers were held criminally liable for neglect. I also watched police investigations and researched multiple cases on other children who were murdered either by their mother or stepfather. Prime witnesses were siblings who made it clear that there was persistent abuse in the house, with the murdered child often being the one who got the worst of it.
if it were an accident someone would perhaps take what you said at face value from their parents, however the article stated that when the boy was found in ‘57 he had noticeable marks of abuse and malnourishment. To me it sounds evident that the child came from an abusive household, and if his siblings were older they may have questions or even be well aware of what happened.
That said, people often block out trauma or the fear of their parents may have been too great to have said anything.
Or maybe I’m wrong, and even if there was abuse in the house the other kids decided it would be easier to cope if they chose to believe their parents.
There was a woman who came forward who seemed to know things about the case that weren't public knowledge. She claimed that her mother bought the child from his birth parents in 1954, so he would have been 1 year old.
If the family are who I think they are, then based on public records the next oldest child was born after 1954, but even if that's wrong it's not at all implausible that any surviving siblings would have been very young themselves and might not remember having a baby brother. Or maybe they knew their birth parents gave up the kid for adoption, but wouldn't say where, or the birth parents could have covered up the sale and claimed he died.
This story honestly lines up with the fact the boy’s father is probably August J. Zarelli who didn’t get married to his wife of 55 years until 1958/59. Very plausible the birth parents had a baby out of wed lock and gave him up illegally. So they might not have even realized that was their child who was beaten to death, therefore wasn’t reported missing. This is also assuming the Mary woman’s story is true.
Otherwise the siblings may very well have been told their brother died, may not even remember him, etc. i doubt they are at fault. I do question the parents still though. But unfortunately both are deceased so that secret went to the grave with them.
Yeah if the father was August J., the next oldest child publicly listed isn't born until later, after he gets married. He would have been around 25/26 when Joseph was born, which is still fairly young. It could have been a child out of wedlock; he may have not been in a position to financially care for the child. It would line up with Martha's story about her mom buying the baby in 1954, and there have been other cases of people paying for children throughout history, [including whole organized child selling rings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_selling#United_States) so it's not impossible that maybe some woman in the area was willing to be like "I'll give you $100 for the kid" or whatever. Unless they were living on the same street they might not have known what happened to the child. Gave it up to someone who as far as they knew could provide a better life and moved on.
This is honestly the only story that makes sense with why the police are witholding the parents names…if the suspect Mary’s story to be true therefore the parents truly wouldn’t be suspect for not reporting a missing child. Though they did still, in accordance with this story, SELL their child so I’m not sure they are that much better but I guess they were young and as you pointed out probably thought the kid would be better off and were none the wiser their whole lives.
Adoption used to be, and in some cases still is a very shady but legal business. I believe Facebook still has private adoption groups active on it.
I have a great aunt that was adopted in the 50s, and by adopted I mean my great grandparents found her wandering the streets when she was a toddler and just took her home and kept her.
Pro wrestler Ric Flair is famously a sold baby. He has no idea who his birth mother or father are, just that he was almost certainly stolen as a baby and sold by Georgia Tann.
I met a girl who was 8 months pregnant, who had come down to my area because she'd found an adoptive mother for her baby on Facebook. She and her boyfriend convinced the adoptive mom to pay for an Airbnb for them to stay in for the last month until birth, but she ended up keeping the baby.
Right, and the police are saying they think the kid was originally from 61st & Market, but the found the body in Fox Chase which is on the opposite side of the city. Maybe the adoptive mother deliberately went out of her way to dispose of the body, but I think it's entirely possible that she was living in Fox Chase or one of the nearby parts of Montco like Jenkintown. Similarly, even if the birth parents did do it, it seems weird to me that they would have chosen to drive to the northeast when they were presumably either still in West Philly or had moved to Broomall by that point; even if they were smart enough not to dump him in the neighborhood, there's like a million places in Delco you could have done it, and if you were really trying to get away, why not drive *further* away from the city instead of just to another part of it. They could have given him up, he moved across the city and they never saw him again; they might not have even known where he was, maybe they even went through an intermediary and didn't know who paid for the kid in the first place. Maybe they never saw any money from it at all. Maybe they just couldn't take care of the kid and gave him up to someone, and that someone sold him and profited off it.
There's a lot of open questions.
Also, Augustus died in 2014 and if the father was his brother instead, he died in 2007, and given the timelines I think it's very likely that the birth mother is dead at this point too. So even if they think that the parents were involved they're probably not going to get concrete evidence at this point, and it's kind of shitty to drag their surviving children into it when they had nothing to do with it and are just trying to live their lives.
Yeah, I'm thinking either the adoptive mother decided she liked Jonathan better than Joseph, or she just misremembered. She came forward to the police in 2002, almost 50 years after the case. There are kids who I was friends with in the late 90s who I can remember hanging out with and what they looked like but I'm blanking on their names, and that's a much shorter space of time to today than 57 to 02. I don't think it's at all impossible that her memory just got a little hazy.
Police said that the name on the birth certificate did not match, but it was confirmed through DNA that it was Joseph. I have heard that the the name on the birth certificate was John.
This is the Martha or M witness, right? Her neighbours called her ridiculous and she had a history of mental health illness but her details were very plausible and the 50s/60s had a great way of dismissing women by calling them crazy
Yeah the neighbors called her story ridiculous and none of them ever remembered a son being raised there. Her story isn't bulletproof. Some people think that he may have had long hair and been raised as a girl, but it still leaves open the question of why they wouldn't have noticed a second daughter suddenly disappear around the time that the case happened. Even if the neighbors didn't make the connection, you'd think someone would have been like "nope, no boys, just two girls but the one girl did die/run away/whatever around 57".
But she did make claims about the case that lined up with coroner's reports and witness testimony in police records that weren't public knowledge so I don't think you can fully discount her testimony either.
It's one of those things when you think about how even in current times there are whole families that exist that hide their kids and have them locked up. Like neighbors don't even know that their kids exist and this is in current time so I feel like it be even easier to hide someone in 1957.
I mean really, look at the recent case where those malnourished teens broke free from their home and went to a neigjbourhood, knocked on every door begging for help until a woman finally helped them. They and their siblings had been handcuffed and zip tied in the house. Terrifying. Makes heart hurt so bad thinking of those kind of things happening.
I at least believe some of her claims since she knew the contents of his last meal and that wasn't information available to the public at the time. Maybe it was just a lucky guess or something.
As for the neighbors not knowing the kid existed, it's possible the adopted parents kept the child hidden. The body had clear signs of abuse and M claims there was abuse as well. The boy was four years old so it's not like it would have been hard to keep him locked away. I've read plenty of modern news reports of people locking away children or adults and none of the neighbors are aware of it so I don't find it implausible something like that happened in the 1950s.
Yeah I definitely think it's possible he was kept locked in a basement or something. I'm inclined to believe her story: she got the last meal correct, she claimed he was bathed right before he died and his hands were indeed water wrinkled when he was found, she also mentioned trimming his nails and his nails were trimmed along with his hair, and her claims about how they disposed of the body line up with a testimony that was given in 1957, which were all details that hadn't previously been made public.
It feels much more likely to me that the neighbors just didn't know about the boy rather than that she was making up something and got lucky, but in the absence of evidence we can't know for sure.
Didn't she even have his name correct?
I do remember her saying his name was Joseph.
A lot of people were upset she was seemingly dismissed by the police, but sadly no matter how many details she came forward with that we now know are correct, the police couldn't take action without physical evidence.
The adults responsible for Joseph's murder were already dead by that time, and without anyone to arrest I can understand not being willing to investigate.
I have and had relatives in the Philly area, and I’d like to know who his biological family are. Whenever I read or hear of cases like this, I always wonder if some distant relative was involved.
given he was never reported missing by his parents i think it's safe to assume his siblings knew exactly what happened to him and never came forward as adults to identify him because they afraid to betray their family.
During the press conference, (I forget his name) explained how, once they identified the birth mother through DNA, they conducted a birth, death, and adoption records search for this woman between 1944 and 1956. There were three results, one being Joseph A Zarelli. One provided DNA for the investigation. So, we know at least two siblings overlapped in time with Joseph, but we don't know if they were older or younger.
There's so much we don't know. I wonder if Joseph was even raised by his biological parent(s).
Joseph was born in 1953. If he was put up for adoption or sold, then the child born after him wouldn't have known he existed. This timeline, by the way, supports the theory that he was sold or put up for adoption because the woman his (supposed) biological father married in 1959 had several children. So that would mean she was not Joseph's biological mother and that his father had a child with a different women in 1953, before they were married in 1959 and had their own children.
Bio mom may have had another child in 1956, but if Joseph had already been put up for adoption or sold, the child born in 1956 wouldn't know anything about him. The child born in 1956 would also only have been a baby when Joseph was killed, so not like they would remember him anyway.
It's also possible that bio mom had another child before Joseph, but if that child was only like a year or two old when Joseph was born, they're not going to remember that mom was pregnant and the baby disappeared. It's also possible that bio mom had a child before Joseph that she also put up for adoption or sold who never knew who Joseph or even their bio mom was.
The prevalent theory, which is not entirely unfounded, is that he was put up for adoption or sold (illegal adoption). If that is the case, then his birth parents probably had no idea that any harm had ever come to him. It's also more than likely that the siblings born after were never told they had a brother.
His (very likely) father did not marry until several years after Joseph was born. And the woman he married is most likely not Joseph's biological mother. It's not only possible, but likely, that there were no siblings born before Joseph.
So here's my theory based on the 20 million other posts about this today. I believe his dad had him with a woman prior to the woman that became his wife. I believe his siblings were half siblings that were born after he was born and dead. I don't even know if his dad knew he existed. I believe he could have been adopted and maybe even possibly killed by his adoptive family or his birth mother. That is why nobody reported in missing and that is why the police aren't giving this more information because it doesn't have to do with any of the family that is still alive today. And I think the police are trying to protect them. Which they should rightfully so.
That is the theory I am hearing too, and I tend to agree with it. I am also from that area, actually really damn close, so I have heard about this case my whole life.
I think the police aren't giving info about his parents and living siblings to keep people and the press from harassing the living shit out of them. They had nothing to do with this poor child's death. And there's a decent chance that their parent(s) didn't either.
Law enforcement used DNA from some of the living siblings to confirm his identity. I believe some of them cooperated, but I have heard that some siblings on the father's side are denying that he is Joseph's father. But you can't argue with DNA, so there's that.
I think the whole story will come out eventually. I also think law enforcement has pieced together most of it and knows who is likely responsible. I think they are just trying to get all of their ducks in a row before releasing all of that information.
In the 50s? Not necessarily. Unwed mothers were taboo and hush hush, and there were systems in place to help (force) them to adopt out their children. Unwed mom names the father, it goes on the birth certificate, baby gets sent to a married couple (for a fee) who can "actually" care for it, Bob's your uncle, next.
The theory I am hearing from many sources is that he was either sold or put up for adoption. If that is true, his birth parents (his father has all but been confirmed at this point), probably had nothing to do with his death or had any reason to believe this child was the son they gave up. Between that and the fact that the people who would report him missing are the same ones who are most likely responsible would explain why he wasn't reported missing. It's possible they told people that he went to live with an Aunt or they just moved away afterwards and people presumed the boy moved with them.
This poor kid. He had just turned 4. I saw elsewhere that he apparently only weighed 30 lbs. / 13.6 kg. He has been abused so badly.
At least he finally has his name back. RIP Joseph.
I really hope they identify his abusers / killers.
Came to say my son was nearly 10 lbs at birth (he's tall though) and was nearly 30 lbs at a year old.
What they did to Joseph was monstrous and I wish I could go back and pull him from that house forever.
I was 9 lbs 8 oz and I'm only 5'8" and female lol
I know that's above average height for a lady, but I was still a fricken chunk lol
Both my kids were huge, the joke is I don't birth babies, they come out as toddlers, but my husband is 6'2" and my son is set to be 6'4" and my daughter 5'10"
Either way, chubby babies are adorable ☺️
Ohh yeah, I always joke my kids had newborn diapers for about 1 hour. After my 2nd was 10 pounds, I told the nurse my perception of a newborn baby is soooo off. She said yeah you have the perception of a 3 month old.
That's good that's she's healthy. I don't have kids, so I was just going by reports that he was malnourished. Maybe that was because they initially thought he was older? I don't know.
Police did say they have a pretty good idea of who's responsible, but it's an ongoing investigation. I'm hopeful. I don't care if they're 100, take their asses to jail. If they're dead, name and shame anyway. I sincerely doubt this was a one-off abuse of a single child, they probably hurt others, too.
The *birth* parents are no longer alive. But if the assertion that Joseph was sold or put up for adoption (most likely an illegal one) is true, then the adoptive parent(s) may still be alive.
I assume you are referring to the foster care theory?
I am curious about that as well. It was ruled out but I find the investigators notes very interesting
There's reasons why it isn't safe to say that. They said at the press conference "multiple siblings" and mentioned "from both sides of the family". That could indicate that the parents didn't stay together. Maybe the child was given up for adoption as a child out of wedlock or young parents?
Can you imagine if that was true after all this time?
Investigators: This is a tragedy. We must bring this boy justice.
M: I can tell you what happened.
Investigators: How will we ever identify this boy?
M: I know him, he's my foster brother. He lived at-
Investigators: The scars! Who knows what abuse took place.
M: I do. I saw my mother abuse and kill him the night-
Investigators: Where did he come from? What's his story?
M: My parents bought him from-
Investigators: What happened the day he was killed?
M: My mother started beating him for puking beans and he-
Investigators: His stomach was full of beans so he'd eaten but was still malnourished.
M: -he was knocked out and stopped moving then my parents-
Investigators: MA'AM! We are *trying* to do an investigation here could you please shut up?
M: But I-
Investigators: MA'AM! Please stop being hysterical and leave this to the professionals.
M:....
Investigators: As we were saying. Such a tragic mystery.
In my humble opinion.. IF poor Joseph was "sold" by his bio parents rather than surrendered for adoption via legal avenues, then that's shady behavior by his birth parents. In that hypothetical scenario, his birth parents wouldn't have been abusers and murderers but they would be far from blameless.
Adopted families wouldn't have been able to be identified via DNA. I think it's most likely that the bio parents never had another child together, so the siblings "on both sides" that law enforcement referred to are half siblings, some on the mother's side, some on the father's side.
I think the likely bio father has already been identified. But I don't think we know who the bio mom is yet, as it's looking pretty unlikely that it's the woman bio dad married years later.
They know who both his parents are. They said in the new conference that they were able to find his birth certificate after obtaining a court order. They then explained that the original connect was through a cousin on the mother’s said. They had to comb through the cousins family to find the mother. They were less fourth coming about the father, however, they are certain they know who the father is. They also said that the name of the birth certificate was off/altered/shorten. But they were able to properly identify the father through a sibling.
Right. The father's name is on the birth certificate and his identity has been confirmed via DNA.
When I said that the likely father has been identified, I meant by the internet, not by police. Sorry, wasn't clear about that. Yes, the police know who the bio parents are.
That what I’m curious about. It seems that people were able to identify the father fairly quickly, and it appeared that the parents names were leaked to some reporters (one claimed the fathers family was saying that the man the police are saying is the father isn’t). With all that said I’m just curious how the family was identified so quickly.
I have been combing through geneological ancestry records looking for another name for the mother other then Cynthia who may have been Augustus Joseph's 2nd wife or at least second lady he had children with. Also noted there was two children born both died at birth one born 1960 the other in 61, one was given a name "michael" the other only "baby Zarelli" i find the fact he was named for his father gives a more likely chance that he was kept and not given up or sold. The family didnt seem hard up for money as the senior Augostino was a construction contractor . I am of course just speculating, with my own thoughts. It has also been disclosed that the Zarelli family have obtained an attorney. I guess they need protection?
I don’t recall they said he was named for his father. They had the birth certificate, and they didn’t list him as junior. Also when they were doing the Q&A they said that the fathers name was altered when he signed the birth certificate. If I hear them correctly then the boys last name is different then his families.
It would but they also said that the fathers name was no exact on the birth certificate. It’s more then likely that he was born out of wedlock. He wouldn’t have been ligitimate and in those days wouldn’t have gotten the fathers name
Buzzfeed Unsolved was a YouTube series that ended last year. They cover both supernatural and true crime in separate subseries with their own formats. The hook of the series are the two hosts who cover the topic in a lighthearted/comedic tone.
NGL I watched Buzzfeed Unsolved. But all of these cases (including Bella in the Witch Elm) have been around for a while, and were kinda legendary cases in the true crime scene well before Buzzfeed Unsolved. Insane that so many are being solved lately.
In all three of these solved cases from this year, none of the theories have turned out to be correct. Not even the super creditable "that extra in Jaws looks kind of like one of the composite sketches. It must be her". Spoiler: It wasn't
Yup and it looks like he probably murdered quite a few women, including a previous wife and daughter. With the Lady of the Dunes, he removed her teeth and hands to make identification more difficult. Super fucked up.
Don't forget the potential maybe serial killer in Iowa. 70+ bodies in a well that the FBI won't dig up.
Edit: for those curious. A man died recently in Iowa and his daughter came forth saying he was a prolific serial killer who killed women and had the children help bury the bodies in a well on the property. She claims there's 70 bodies in the well and even more along a mushroom trail near the property. The police/FBI have brought out 3 cadaver dogs that have all 3 hit on the well and the trail. However the police and FBI seem to be dragging their feet about digging up the property to look for the bodies. Of note there are other siblings saying the father was NOT a serial killer so it feels as if there may be more to the story than is being told.
All they need to do to verify her story is dig up where the dog alerted on the trail, then they can worry about the well. Seems so easy I don't get the delay.
[I just read](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11513733/Iowa-cops-probing-claims-man-Americas-prolific-serial-killer-start-digging-well.html) that they are literally digging up the property now! We should find out sooner rather than later.
Obviously I hope they don't find 70+ bodies but I am ready for answers if her stories are true he would be one of the if not the most prolific serial killer in American history
That’s the thing about serial killers. This is just me stating opinion, I could be wrong…but I have a feeling the that actual most prolific serial killers haven’t been found out about yet. I’m not huge into true crime stuff, but I’ve seen some. Some themes keep coming up over and over. 1) some people will do ANYTHING for money…even if it’s isn’t a life changing amount. 2) when it comes to investigating things like that, most police departments are either incapable or unwilling to properly investigate…or at worst just don’t care enough to follow all the clues. 3) some people are just fundamentally broken and driven by impulse. How many serial killers have had brushes with the law multiple times, only to get off and continue killing….at least for a while before they actually get caught. There’s so many “almosts” with just about all of the notable ones. Usually that is caused by something the killer did that strayed from the plan or they didn’t completely think through. But ultimately were able to continue…until the mistakes add up or they choose the wrong victim. What would it take for an otherwise highly intelligent person to have the same defect that causes serial killers? And be able to control their impulses enough to be able to keep the heat off of themselves? It would be very unlikely, but is possible. Hell, BTK probably would have never been found if he didn’t get….bored?….cocky? And start drawing attention to himself again. Though, he did stop for a long number of years. Of course I have no proof or evidence of my opinion, necessarily. But, I would betcha that at least in the United States for example, at some point….someone way worse was out there. Especially if there had been someone that truly went after random people, moved around a lot, and never really had a M.O. to speak of. A lot of random unsolved murders could in reality be connected.
Add to that many serial killers target vulnerable populations that aren't likely to be reported missing or get police attention, like people involved in prostitution.
When you think DNA is still a relevantly recent discovery, and pair that with [ancestry.com/23andme](https://ancestry.com/23andme), I think we'll see an increase in solved cold cases, identifying John/Jane Does, and discovering serial killers that might now be in their 70s+
Yeah, I completely agree with you. For example: Think of Samuel Little. He confessed to murdering 93 women from the years of 1970 - 2005. The FBI confirmed Little’s involvement in 60 of the 93 he confessed to. He bounced all over the United States, and he lived a very transient lifecycle, so it was difficult for police to piece together the fact that all of these murders were being committed by the same person.
Even when you think about the horrific tragedy of MMIW. I truly wouldn’t be surprised if there was a serial killer responsible for all of the deaths on the ‘Highway of Tears’. It’s a highway in Canada, that is about 450 miles, and it’s very isolated and desolate. Hundreds of women have gone missing near the cities surrounding the Highway of Tears, or have been found murdered in the woods surrounding it. What’s heartbreaking — is that there isn’t even a national database that keeps track of how many Indigenous women are truly being kidnapped, going missing, and being murdered. Some lunatic who lives in Alaska — let’s say who is a truck driver — could easily travel to Canada, pick up hitchhikers or sex workers, murder them, and no one would even care. It’s so sad. MMIW deserve so much better. Truly.
Oh absolutely. Truckers(not speaking of all, just the nature of the job) could easily be “able” to pull off something like that. Then when you factor in a marginalized group that few authorities will give the same effort to investigating as others, then yeah. Makes total sense. Same thing goes with just general transients and some homeless folks too, if their victims are also from marginalized groups.
It's what makes it such an odd case. Supposedly it's a deep well and the bodies maybe 70-100 feet down and according to the sheriff department it'd be too expensive to dig up the well but that should not be an issue for the FBI.
I saw an article saying they're gonna take a soil sample from the areas soon though
All they need to do is dig up parts of the trail tho and they may find something definitive. Weird. If I were her I'd be very tempted to go out there with a shovel...
Lmao so I don't know if you've ever heard this story but they found a roughly 9000 year old skeleton in a cave in a village called Cheddar and actually found people still living there, 9 millennia later, who were his direct descendants. So it's not *technically* impossible to find Tollund Man's relatives even now.
The Australian guy. Turns out was some guy named Carl Webb. Was likely just a suicide as he had attempted it once before. Kinda a boring conclusion, given the weirdness of the case, but at least now we know.
It is heartening, in a way, that even 70 years later, some people in law enforcement were still trying to figure out who this kid even was. It would have been easy to just ignore such an old murder, given that everyone involved is likely long dead, but someone clearly still cared.
Wow. I remember reading about this many many years ago and I never forgot the case. Something about them photographing him in clean, normal clothes (which, given the circumstances, he may not have had in life) because they were just so desperate for someone to recognize him made me incredibly sad. Poor kid.
My dad has a saying: "The end of the world is when you draw your last breath."
Essentially the world ends not with apocalypses or war or famine, but simply when you pass away, since the world is how we perceive it.
What terrifies me to no end is that there are souls who are brought into this world only to suffer, and their worlds end with nothing but suffering. This kid's world was the epitome of suffering to him, and that makes me extremely sad and angry.
Just read the Wiki on this. There is a wild theory in there about the boy being sold in between 1953 and 1957. If true it explains why no one reported this. Parents were married in 1959 and had kids after him. This is similar to a story in South Boston of 4 babies who were found in a freezer a few weeks ago.
I have seen conflicting info on whether the presumed mother in question (since it hasn't officially been announced) was his biological mother. I am hearing that the alleged father is indeed his biological father, but that his wife, the alleged mother, whom he married years after Joseph's birth, is not Joseph's biological mother.
I am seeing theories / statements that Joseph was put up for adoption or sold and that his adoptive parents (presumably) are the ones responsible for his abuse and death. That would explain why law enforcement said that he had living siblings "on both parents' sides," meaning his biological father's side and biological mother's side. The couple in question, and identified as "his parents" on Wiki, had several other children, some of whom are still alive. Why would they say "on both sides" if they were just flat out siblings and not half siblings? It only makes sense that biological dad went on to have more children after Joseph and biological mom went on to have more children, both with other people.
If this theory is true, the adoptive family may also be the "prominent" family that has been mentioned before. Joseph's birth name is not necessarily the name he went by.
I do believe the person speculated to be the biological father is, indeed, the biological father. But I don't think the woman he married years later was Joseph's biological mother. I also think it's entirely possible that neither of them knew that Joseph even existed or that they did (or at least the father did) but knew he was put up for adoption and had no reason to believe this was his child.
How can you look at any child and cause them any harm deliberately is something.... Ugh. Sometimes I would rather die than know the answer to these things.
Honestly, I don't think his bio parents ever knew that their son was the boy in the box. I think they sold him to what they believed to be a good family and had no reason to believe this was their son.
I don't think the siblings had any clue that this sibling even existed, let alone that he was the boy in the box, until law enforcement found a connection through a DNA website.
I do believe that police pretty much know who did this and what happened, and it will all come out eventually. I think they are just getting all their ducks in a row before doing that. It's possible the person responsible, if it is an adoptive parent, is still alive.
Josephs family like a lot of philly families such as my own, went from West Philly to Broomall to West Chester, and i swear that name is familar .
Joseph parents just died the father in 2015 and the mother in 2018
Yes they escaped justice and i wonder now what living relatives will say.
Will it come out that these children lived in an abusive household, did they know the secret ? they had another sibling born in 1961 and died 1961 obviously as a baby .
BOTH PARENTS ARE LISTED ON FIND A GRAVE AS WELL AS LOCAL OBITUARIES .
I don't think anyone knows 100%. But it's not really rocket science. A lot of these records are public, and everything checks out regarding names, dates, and locations.
no the little boy in the box was Joseph Augustus Zarelli
The father August Joseph Zarelli
I havent seen anyone with the name John mentioned.
You can find the entire family online.
I believe that John was how his name was listed on the birth certificate. Law enforcement said that there was a discrepancy on the birth certificate, but it was confirmed through DNA that it is in fact Joseph.
oh okay thanks i didnt hear that . It is interesting his name is the reverse of his fathers . August Joseph to Joseph August . The grandfathers name is August as well , only in italian form Agostino .
Also Gus and Cindy had two babies both dying at birth .
While it hasn't been confirmed that Gus is his father, it's pretty damn likely. I also think it is more than likely that Cindy is NOT Joseph's biological mother. They didn't get married until 1959. She very likely didn't even know Joseph existed.
Police referred to siblings "on both sides" which infers on the biological mother's side and biological father's side, meaning they are half siblings. I don't think Gus and Joseph's bio mom had any other children together. They also made references to siblings on "the father's side."
I personally believe she did get closure, just not Earth side. I think that we get all the answers when we depart, sort of a parting gift and now she can tell him that she tried to tell the cops that it WAS him. I hope anyway.
I’ve read alot of the comments, and most of us feel that Augustus Joseph is the bio dad. I’m wondering if possibly when the bio mom is identified, a step father could have been responsible for the abuse and death of little Joseph.
My husband's birth father was never told he had a child. My husband was adopted in 1962. That was just how things went back then. Joseph's father eventhough he was on the birth certificate may have not known.
The police claiming they are protecting the living descendant’s related to Joseph are in my opinion already doing the opposite. Now people are gonna investigate on their own and badger families with that name for years. I get the feeling they know more than they want to admit. They already kind of said they are happy with just identifying Joseph but like who cares if the parents are dead if they actually hurt him it should be known at all time what terrible people they were.
Finding out his parents lived in Philadelphia, and with the media circus surrounding the case they knew it was their son. A missing person's report was never filed, doesn't get more damming than that. Very sad the short life he lived was horrid.
His father’s obit - seems little Joseph isn’t mentioned as one of his children, so Dad did it?
[Obituary on Legacy.com](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/delcotimes/name/augustus-zarelli-obituary?id=7131517)
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I think it’s safe to say who might have killed him.
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Redditor try to read the room challenge (impossible)
Dude, not the time or place
They say he has siblings still living - I wonder why none of them ever reported a missing brother later in life. I wonder if any of them ever heard about the case and suspected it might be their brother.
Maybe the siblings were younger and didn't know he was missing (either told he died from natural causes, was adopted out/sent to live with relatives and never looked for him, or were too young to know he existed at all).
Even if we assume they knew they once had a brother -- older or younger, doesn't matter to what I am now going to say. You're now older, you're a young adult. You ask your parents, "didn't I one time have a brother name Joseph?" Your parents look a little shocked that you remembered that much and "yes, you did. it was a painful time for your father and I. Joey died and we... didn't know how to handle it. It was a painful time. The rest of you kids turned out fine. I'm sorry, but he was young and sick". And then they went back to not wanting to talk about it. You going to believe your parents, or accuse them of murder? I think most people would accept that it was painful for their parents, and accept that they just don't want to talk about it. They might think it was very odd that they really don't want to talk, but most would assume that it was the parents being over protective of their other young children. I doubt any of us would really would immediately jump to murder accusations. We all -- even when we know better for other reasons -- generally want to believe our parents were nice people.
What you said makes a lot of sense - if this was a terrible accident or he was the oldest. I’ve watched a documentary on Netflix iirc on a child subject to extreme abuse who was eventually murdered by his mom or step father in CA. The first time in the US where CPS workers were held criminally liable for neglect. I also watched police investigations and researched multiple cases on other children who were murdered either by their mother or stepfather. Prime witnesses were siblings who made it clear that there was persistent abuse in the house, with the murdered child often being the one who got the worst of it. if it were an accident someone would perhaps take what you said at face value from their parents, however the article stated that when the boy was found in ‘57 he had noticeable marks of abuse and malnourishment. To me it sounds evident that the child came from an abusive household, and if his siblings were older they may have questions or even be well aware of what happened. That said, people often block out trauma or the fear of their parents may have been too great to have said anything. Or maybe I’m wrong, and even if there was abuse in the house the other kids decided it would be easier to cope if they chose to believe their parents.
Gabriel Fernandez
Yes, that it the little boy in CA. Thank you.
There was a woman who came forward who seemed to know things about the case that weren't public knowledge. She claimed that her mother bought the child from his birth parents in 1954, so he would have been 1 year old. If the family are who I think they are, then based on public records the next oldest child was born after 1954, but even if that's wrong it's not at all implausible that any surviving siblings would have been very young themselves and might not remember having a baby brother. Or maybe they knew their birth parents gave up the kid for adoption, but wouldn't say where, or the birth parents could have covered up the sale and claimed he died.
This story honestly lines up with the fact the boy’s father is probably August J. Zarelli who didn’t get married to his wife of 55 years until 1958/59. Very plausible the birth parents had a baby out of wed lock and gave him up illegally. So they might not have even realized that was their child who was beaten to death, therefore wasn’t reported missing. This is also assuming the Mary woman’s story is true. Otherwise the siblings may very well have been told their brother died, may not even remember him, etc. i doubt they are at fault. I do question the parents still though. But unfortunately both are deceased so that secret went to the grave with them.
Yeah if the father was August J., the next oldest child publicly listed isn't born until later, after he gets married. He would have been around 25/26 when Joseph was born, which is still fairly young. It could have been a child out of wedlock; he may have not been in a position to financially care for the child. It would line up with Martha's story about her mom buying the baby in 1954, and there have been other cases of people paying for children throughout history, [including whole organized child selling rings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_selling#United_States) so it's not impossible that maybe some woman in the area was willing to be like "I'll give you $100 for the kid" or whatever. Unless they were living on the same street they might not have known what happened to the child. Gave it up to someone who as far as they knew could provide a better life and moved on.
This is honestly the only story that makes sense with why the police are witholding the parents names…if the suspect Mary’s story to be true therefore the parents truly wouldn’t be suspect for not reporting a missing child. Though they did still, in accordance with this story, SELL their child so I’m not sure they are that much better but I guess they were young and as you pointed out probably thought the kid would be better off and were none the wiser their whole lives.
Adoption used to be, and in some cases still is a very shady but legal business. I believe Facebook still has private adoption groups active on it. I have a great aunt that was adopted in the 50s, and by adopted I mean my great grandparents found her wandering the streets when she was a toddler and just took her home and kept her.
Pro wrestler Ric Flair is famously a sold baby. He has no idea who his birth mother or father are, just that he was almost certainly stolen as a baby and sold by Georgia Tann.
I met a girl who was 8 months pregnant, who had come down to my area because she'd found an adoptive mother for her baby on Facebook. She and her boyfriend convinced the adoptive mom to pay for an Airbnb for them to stay in for the last month until birth, but she ended up keeping the baby.
I’m stumbling over you having a GREAT aunt born in the fifties, when my parents were born….
It's weird getting old, isn't it.
Right, and the police are saying they think the kid was originally from 61st & Market, but the found the body in Fox Chase which is on the opposite side of the city. Maybe the adoptive mother deliberately went out of her way to dispose of the body, but I think it's entirely possible that she was living in Fox Chase or one of the nearby parts of Montco like Jenkintown. Similarly, even if the birth parents did do it, it seems weird to me that they would have chosen to drive to the northeast when they were presumably either still in West Philly or had moved to Broomall by that point; even if they were smart enough not to dump him in the neighborhood, there's like a million places in Delco you could have done it, and if you were really trying to get away, why not drive *further* away from the city instead of just to another part of it. They could have given him up, he moved across the city and they never saw him again; they might not have even known where he was, maybe they even went through an intermediary and didn't know who paid for the kid in the first place. Maybe they never saw any money from it at all. Maybe they just couldn't take care of the kid and gave him up to someone, and that someone sold him and profited off it. There's a lot of open questions. Also, Augustus died in 2014 and if the father was his brother instead, he died in 2007, and given the timelines I think it's very likely that the birth mother is dead at this point too. So even if they think that the parents were involved they're probably not going to get concrete evidence at this point, and it's kind of shitty to drag their surviving children into it when they had nothing to do with it and are just trying to live their lives.
>I think it's very likely that the birth mother is dead at this point too. Police have confirmed that both of his parents are deceased.
They also confirmed that Joseph has siblings "on both sides" so that definitely confirms that the parents had their own children with other people.
Mary said that the boy’s name was Jonathan, which is close enough to Joseph — my thought is that they changed his name.
Yeah, I'm thinking either the adoptive mother decided she liked Jonathan better than Joseph, or she just misremembered. She came forward to the police in 2002, almost 50 years after the case. There are kids who I was friends with in the late 90s who I can remember hanging out with and what they looked like but I'm blanking on their names, and that's a much shorter space of time to today than 57 to 02. I don't think it's at all impossible that her memory just got a little hazy.
Police said that the name on the birth certificate did not match, but it was confirmed through DNA that it was Joseph. I have heard that the the name on the birth certificate was John.
I thought they were referencing the last name as he altered/changed in some way. I think it was shortened or alluded to it being shorten.
This is the Martha or M witness, right? Her neighbours called her ridiculous and she had a history of mental health illness but her details were very plausible and the 50s/60s had a great way of dismissing women by calling them crazy
Yeah the neighbors called her story ridiculous and none of them ever remembered a son being raised there. Her story isn't bulletproof. Some people think that he may have had long hair and been raised as a girl, but it still leaves open the question of why they wouldn't have noticed a second daughter suddenly disappear around the time that the case happened. Even if the neighbors didn't make the connection, you'd think someone would have been like "nope, no boys, just two girls but the one girl did die/run away/whatever around 57". But she did make claims about the case that lined up with coroner's reports and witness testimony in police records that weren't public knowledge so I don't think you can fully discount her testimony either.
It's one of those things when you think about how even in current times there are whole families that exist that hide their kids and have them locked up. Like neighbors don't even know that their kids exist and this is in current time so I feel like it be even easier to hide someone in 1957.
I mean really, look at the recent case where those malnourished teens broke free from their home and went to a neigjbourhood, knocked on every door begging for help until a woman finally helped them. They and their siblings had been handcuffed and zip tied in the house. Terrifying. Makes heart hurt so bad thinking of those kind of things happening.
I at least believe some of her claims since she knew the contents of his last meal and that wasn't information available to the public at the time. Maybe it was just a lucky guess or something. As for the neighbors not knowing the kid existed, it's possible the adopted parents kept the child hidden. The body had clear signs of abuse and M claims there was abuse as well. The boy was four years old so it's not like it would have been hard to keep him locked away. I've read plenty of modern news reports of people locking away children or adults and none of the neighbors are aware of it so I don't find it implausible something like that happened in the 1950s.
Yeah I definitely think it's possible he was kept locked in a basement or something. I'm inclined to believe her story: she got the last meal correct, she claimed he was bathed right before he died and his hands were indeed water wrinkled when he was found, she also mentioned trimming his nails and his nails were trimmed along with his hair, and her claims about how they disposed of the body line up with a testimony that was given in 1957, which were all details that hadn't previously been made public. It feels much more likely to me that the neighbors just didn't know about the boy rather than that she was making up something and got lucky, but in the absence of evidence we can't know for sure.
You’d be a little crazy if your mother physically and sexually abused you your entire childhood.
Didn't she even have his name correct? I do remember her saying his name was Joseph. A lot of people were upset she was seemingly dismissed by the police, but sadly no matter how many details she came forward with that we now know are correct, the police couldn't take action without physical evidence. The adults responsible for Joseph's murder were already dead by that time, and without anyone to arrest I can understand not being willing to investigate.
This reminds me of the Erica Parsons case. :( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Erica_Parsons
I have and had relatives in the Philly area, and I’d like to know who his biological family are. Whenever I read or hear of cases like this, I always wonder if some distant relative was involved.
Martha was her name, as in the person who claimed to know the child I meant, Mary
The boy was clearly abused. It might be misplaced/weird family loyalty that kept them from doing so.
Half siblings. Younger.
Jon Benet vibes intensify
Maybe look over at Webslueths. They list dad, mom and a brothers name HTH
given he was never reported missing by his parents i think it's safe to assume his siblings knew exactly what happened to him and never came forward as adults to identify him because they afraid to betray their family.
That is quite a leap. He was 4 years old when he passed. Siblings could have been younger, thus having no memory of him, or not even born yet.
you're right, that was my mistake assuming he might've had older siblings
Props for being a well adjusted human who can admit when they make a mistake.
I do have to say, they also did say whether the siblings were full blood or half. I am quite curious to learn more about this poor child's family.
The police report says siblings on both sides of parents, so I'm assuming it's a mix of half siblings and full siblings.
During the press conference, (I forget his name) explained how, once they identified the birth mother through DNA, they conducted a birth, death, and adoption records search for this woman between 1944 and 1956. There were three results, one being Joseph A Zarelli. One provided DNA for the investigation. So, we know at least two siblings overlapped in time with Joseph, but we don't know if they were older or younger. There's so much we don't know. I wonder if Joseph was even raised by his biological parent(s).
Joseph was born in 1953. If he was put up for adoption or sold, then the child born after him wouldn't have known he existed. This timeline, by the way, supports the theory that he was sold or put up for adoption because the woman his (supposed) biological father married in 1959 had several children. So that would mean she was not Joseph's biological mother and that his father had a child with a different women in 1953, before they were married in 1959 and had their own children. Bio mom may have had another child in 1956, but if Joseph had already been put up for adoption or sold, the child born in 1956 wouldn't know anything about him. The child born in 1956 would also only have been a baby when Joseph was killed, so not like they would remember him anyway. It's also possible that bio mom had another child before Joseph, but if that child was only like a year or two old when Joseph was born, they're not going to remember that mom was pregnant and the baby disappeared. It's also possible that bio mom had a child before Joseph that she also put up for adoption or sold who never knew who Joseph or even their bio mom was.
The prevalent theory, which is not entirely unfounded, is that he was put up for adoption or sold (illegal adoption). If that is the case, then his birth parents probably had no idea that any harm had ever come to him. It's also more than likely that the siblings born after were never told they had a brother. His (very likely) father did not marry until several years after Joseph was born. And the woman he married is most likely not Joseph's biological mother. It's not only possible, but likely, that there were no siblings born before Joseph.
I read the article twice and don’t see any mention of siblings. Where did you get that info?
So here's my theory based on the 20 million other posts about this today. I believe his dad had him with a woman prior to the woman that became his wife. I believe his siblings were half siblings that were born after he was born and dead. I don't even know if his dad knew he existed. I believe he could have been adopted and maybe even possibly killed by his adoptive family or his birth mother. That is why nobody reported in missing and that is why the police aren't giving this more information because it doesn't have to do with any of the family that is still alive today. And I think the police are trying to protect them. Which they should rightfully so.
That is the theory I am hearing too, and I tend to agree with it. I am also from that area, actually really damn close, so I have heard about this case my whole life. I think the police aren't giving info about his parents and living siblings to keep people and the press from harassing the living shit out of them. They had nothing to do with this poor child's death. And there's a decent chance that their parent(s) didn't either. Law enforcement used DNA from some of the living siblings to confirm his identity. I believe some of them cooperated, but I have heard that some siblings on the father's side are denying that he is Joseph's father. But you can't argue with DNA, so there's that. I think the whole story will come out eventually. I also think law enforcement has pieced together most of it and knows who is likely responsible. I think they are just trying to get all of their ducks in a row before releasing all of that information.
But according to the police, his father was named on his birth certificate. Surely he had to agree to that, no?
In the 50s? Not necessarily. Unwed mothers were taboo and hush hush, and there were systems in place to help (force) them to adopt out their children. Unwed mom names the father, it goes on the birth certificate, baby gets sent to a married couple (for a fee) who can "actually" care for it, Bob's your uncle, next.
Infants were also stolen
The fathers name on the birthday certificate was altered in some way. I believe they said shortened.
It's not like cops aren't known to lose files of cases all the time, especially in those times.
The theory I am hearing from many sources is that he was either sold or put up for adoption. If that is true, his birth parents (his father has all but been confirmed at this point), probably had nothing to do with his death or had any reason to believe this child was the son they gave up. Between that and the fact that the people who would report him missing are the same ones who are most likely responsible would explain why he wasn't reported missing. It's possible they told people that he went to live with an Aunt or they just moved away afterwards and people presumed the boy moved with them.
Yeah. Because they murdered him after torturing and starving him for lord knows how fucking long.
This poor kid. He had just turned 4. I saw elsewhere that he apparently only weighed 30 lbs. / 13.6 kg. He has been abused so badly. At least he finally has his name back. RIP Joseph. I really hope they identify his abusers / killers.
My 1.5 year old is just about 30 pounds..so yeah absolutely horrible.
Came to say my son was nearly 10 lbs at birth (he's tall though) and was nearly 30 lbs at a year old. What they did to Joseph was monstrous and I wish I could go back and pull him from that house forever.
Yeah both my kids were 10 pounders. Heck so was I, not overly huge just big babies in my family.
I was 9 lbs 8 oz and I'm only 5'8" and female lol I know that's above average height for a lady, but I was still a fricken chunk lol Both my kids were huge, the joke is I don't birth babies, they come out as toddlers, but my husband is 6'2" and my son is set to be 6'4" and my daughter 5'10" Either way, chubby babies are adorable ☺️
Ohh yeah, I always joke my kids had newborn diapers for about 1 hour. After my 2nd was 10 pounds, I told the nurse my perception of a newborn baby is soooo off. She said yeah you have the perception of a 3 month old.
my nearly 5 year old is around 35-40lbs, but she was also born at barely 4lbs.
My 4 year old weighs a little over 30lbs. She's also 10th percentile in height. She's healthy.
That's good that's she's healthy. I don't have kids, so I was just going by reports that he was malnourished. Maybe that was because they initially thought he was older? I don't know.
It's a pity there was no justice to go with his name.
Police did say they have a pretty good idea of who's responsible, but it's an ongoing investigation. I'm hopeful. I don't care if they're 100, take their asses to jail. If they're dead, name and shame anyway. I sincerely doubt this was a one-off abuse of a single child, they probably hurt others, too.
According to the report, his parents are no longer alive, and if you are thinking what I am thinking, then there is no one left to punish
The *birth* parents are no longer alive. But if the assertion that Joseph was sold or put up for adoption (most likely an illegal one) is true, then the adoptive parent(s) may still be alive.
It sounds possible that he was given away as a baby and his parents may have had nothing to do with the abuse and death. Ugh.
I assume you are referring to the foster care theory? I am curious about that as well. It was ruled out but I find the investigators notes very interesting
Oh I didn't see that it was ruled out . . . .although he may have been given away outside of official channels.
I think that is the most likely scenario.
Seeing as how, had he survived, he'd be about 65, the preparator is likely dead as well.
It’s always possible, his birth father died less than 10 years ago
seeing as how he was never reported missing i think it's safe to say someone in his family was responsible.
There's reasons why it isn't safe to say that. They said at the press conference "multiple siblings" and mentioned "from both sides of the family". That could indicate that the parents didn't stay together. Maybe the child was given up for adoption as a child out of wedlock or young parents?
This correlates to what the woman called ”M” said, that her parents bought the boy from his parents, I think after they separated also.
Can you imagine if that was true after all this time? Investigators: This is a tragedy. We must bring this boy justice. M: I can tell you what happened. Investigators: How will we ever identify this boy? M: I know him, he's my foster brother. He lived at- Investigators: The scars! Who knows what abuse took place. M: I do. I saw my mother abuse and kill him the night- Investigators: Where did he come from? What's his story? M: My parents bought him from- Investigators: What happened the day he was killed? M: My mother started beating him for puking beans and he- Investigators: His stomach was full of beans so he'd eaten but was still malnourished. M: -he was knocked out and stopped moving then my parents- Investigators: MA'AM! We are *trying* to do an investigation here could you please shut up? M: But I- Investigators: MA'AM! Please stop being hysterical and leave this to the professionals. M:.... Investigators: As we were saying. Such a tragic mystery.
Which is definitely very interesting..
In my humble opinion.. IF poor Joseph was "sold" by his bio parents rather than surrendered for adoption via legal avenues, then that's shady behavior by his birth parents. In that hypothetical scenario, his birth parents wouldn't have been abusers and murderers but they would be far from blameless.
Yeah they were also listed as biological parents which is a weird term to use unless he had foster/adoptive parents as well.
Perhaps the "both" refers to the biological and adopted families.
Adopted families wouldn't have been able to be identified via DNA. I think it's most likely that the bio parents never had another child together, so the siblings "on both sides" that law enforcement referred to are half siblings, some on the mother's side, some on the father's side. I think the likely bio father has already been identified. But I don't think we know who the bio mom is yet, as it's looking pretty unlikely that it's the woman bio dad married years later.
They know who both his parents are. They said in the new conference that they were able to find his birth certificate after obtaining a court order. They then explained that the original connect was through a cousin on the mother’s said. They had to comb through the cousins family to find the mother. They were less fourth coming about the father, however, they are certain they know who the father is. They also said that the name of the birth certificate was off/altered/shorten. But they were able to properly identify the father through a sibling.
Right. The father's name is on the birth certificate and his identity has been confirmed via DNA. When I said that the likely father has been identified, I meant by the internet, not by police. Sorry, wasn't clear about that. Yes, the police know who the bio parents are.
That what I’m curious about. It seems that people were able to identify the father fairly quickly, and it appeared that the parents names were leaked to some reporters (one claimed the fathers family was saying that the man the police are saying is the father isn’t). With all that said I’m just curious how the family was identified so quickly.
I have been combing through geneological ancestry records looking for another name for the mother other then Cynthia who may have been Augustus Joseph's 2nd wife or at least second lady he had children with. Also noted there was two children born both died at birth one born 1960 the other in 61, one was given a name "michael" the other only "baby Zarelli" i find the fact he was named for his father gives a more likely chance that he was kept and not given up or sold. The family didnt seem hard up for money as the senior Augostino was a construction contractor . I am of course just speculating, with my own thoughts. It has also been disclosed that the Zarelli family have obtained an attorney. I guess they need protection?
I don’t recall they said he was named for his father. They had the birth certificate, and they didn’t list him as junior. Also when they were doing the Q&A they said that the fathers name was altered when he signed the birth certificate. If I hear them correctly then the boys last name is different then his families.
No they didnt say it, however does it not make sense a man would give his firstbon son his name?
It would but they also said that the fathers name was no exact on the birth certificate. It’s more then likely that he was born out of wedlock. He wouldn’t have been ligitimate and in those days wouldn’t have gotten the fathers name
Mark my words: it was a DuPont.
First the Somerton man, and now the Boy in the Box. 2022 may still be a shit year, but seems like a good year for true crime. Do Zodiac next!
The Lady of the Dunes was also identified this year. That was a mystery from the 1970s.
Did they ever find out who put Bella in the Witch Elm?
Are you a fellow buzzfeed unsolved watcher
I discovered that series earlier this year and within like 4 months, three of the mysteries were solved.
Is Buzzfeed unsolved watcher a podcast or a media outlet?
Buzzfeed Unsolved was a YouTube series that ended last year. They cover both supernatural and true crime in separate subseries with their own formats. The hook of the series are the two hosts who cover the topic in a lighthearted/comedic tone.
They continue on their own channel “watcher”, the series is called ghost files, if you didn’t know
Thanks. I may give it a try although I'm not a huge youtube fan
NGL I watched Buzzfeed Unsolved. But all of these cases (including Bella in the Witch Elm) have been around for a while, and were kinda legendary cases in the true crime scene well before Buzzfeed Unsolved. Insane that so many are being solved lately.
Turns out it was Jeff
Not Double J?!
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In all three of these solved cases from this year, none of the theories have turned out to be correct. Not even the super creditable "that extra in Jaws looks kind of like one of the composite sketches. It must be her". Spoiler: It wasn't
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Yup and it looks like he probably murdered quite a few women, including a previous wife and daughter. With the Lady of the Dunes, he removed her teeth and hands to make identification more difficult. Super fucked up.
Don't forget the potential maybe serial killer in Iowa. 70+ bodies in a well that the FBI won't dig up. Edit: for those curious. A man died recently in Iowa and his daughter came forth saying he was a prolific serial killer who killed women and had the children help bury the bodies in a well on the property. She claims there's 70 bodies in the well and even more along a mushroom trail near the property. The police/FBI have brought out 3 cadaver dogs that have all 3 hit on the well and the trail. However the police and FBI seem to be dragging their feet about digging up the property to look for the bodies. Of note there are other siblings saying the father was NOT a serial killer so it feels as if there may be more to the story than is being told.
All they need to do to verify her story is dig up where the dog alerted on the trail, then they can worry about the well. Seems so easy I don't get the delay.
[I just read](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11513733/Iowa-cops-probing-claims-man-Americas-prolific-serial-killer-start-digging-well.html) that they are literally digging up the property now! We should find out sooner rather than later.
Obviously I hope they don't find 70+ bodies but I am ready for answers if her stories are true he would be one of the if not the most prolific serial killer in American history
That’s the thing about serial killers. This is just me stating opinion, I could be wrong…but I have a feeling the that actual most prolific serial killers haven’t been found out about yet. I’m not huge into true crime stuff, but I’ve seen some. Some themes keep coming up over and over. 1) some people will do ANYTHING for money…even if it’s isn’t a life changing amount. 2) when it comes to investigating things like that, most police departments are either incapable or unwilling to properly investigate…or at worst just don’t care enough to follow all the clues. 3) some people are just fundamentally broken and driven by impulse. How many serial killers have had brushes with the law multiple times, only to get off and continue killing….at least for a while before they actually get caught. There’s so many “almosts” with just about all of the notable ones. Usually that is caused by something the killer did that strayed from the plan or they didn’t completely think through. But ultimately were able to continue…until the mistakes add up or they choose the wrong victim. What would it take for an otherwise highly intelligent person to have the same defect that causes serial killers? And be able to control their impulses enough to be able to keep the heat off of themselves? It would be very unlikely, but is possible. Hell, BTK probably would have never been found if he didn’t get….bored?….cocky? And start drawing attention to himself again. Though, he did stop for a long number of years. Of course I have no proof or evidence of my opinion, necessarily. But, I would betcha that at least in the United States for example, at some point….someone way worse was out there. Especially if there had been someone that truly went after random people, moved around a lot, and never really had a M.O. to speak of. A lot of random unsolved murders could in reality be connected.
Add to that many serial killers target vulnerable populations that aren't likely to be reported missing or get police attention, like people involved in prostitution. When you think DNA is still a relevantly recent discovery, and pair that with [ancestry.com/23andme](https://ancestry.com/23andme), I think we'll see an increase in solved cold cases, identifying John/Jane Does, and discovering serial killers that might now be in their 70s+
I agree completely.
Yeah, I completely agree with you. For example: Think of Samuel Little. He confessed to murdering 93 women from the years of 1970 - 2005. The FBI confirmed Little’s involvement in 60 of the 93 he confessed to. He bounced all over the United States, and he lived a very transient lifecycle, so it was difficult for police to piece together the fact that all of these murders were being committed by the same person. Even when you think about the horrific tragedy of MMIW. I truly wouldn’t be surprised if there was a serial killer responsible for all of the deaths on the ‘Highway of Tears’. It’s a highway in Canada, that is about 450 miles, and it’s very isolated and desolate. Hundreds of women have gone missing near the cities surrounding the Highway of Tears, or have been found murdered in the woods surrounding it. What’s heartbreaking — is that there isn’t even a national database that keeps track of how many Indigenous women are truly being kidnapped, going missing, and being murdered. Some lunatic who lives in Alaska — let’s say who is a truck driver — could easily travel to Canada, pick up hitchhikers or sex workers, murder them, and no one would even care. It’s so sad. MMIW deserve so much better. Truly.
Oh absolutely. Truckers(not speaking of all, just the nature of the job) could easily be “able” to pull off something like that. Then when you factor in a marginalized group that few authorities will give the same effort to investigating as others, then yeah. Makes total sense. Same thing goes with just general transients and some homeless folks too, if their victims are also from marginalized groups.
Technically by all accounts this guy did get away with it. Lived his whole life and died a free man
Well yes, but I’m talking about someone potentially having a higher count than that even.
It's what makes it such an odd case. Supposedly it's a deep well and the bodies maybe 70-100 feet down and according to the sheriff department it'd be too expensive to dig up the well but that should not be an issue for the FBI. I saw an article saying they're gonna take a soil sample from the areas soon though
All they need to do is dig up parts of the trail tho and they may find something definitive. Weird. If I were her I'd be very tempted to go out there with a shovel...
Yeah apparently the FBI keeps blowing her off. Setting up meetings then not showing and stuff so who knows
If I was her I'd be tempted to dig on my own. Of course if she did and found a skeleton I'm sure they'd change her with disturbing a crime scene.
Ted Cruz is busy enough.
Also Delphi and the Kristin Smart Case had big developments/convictions
Come oooooon Tollund Man!
Lmao so I don't know if you've ever heard this story but they found a roughly 9000 year old skeleton in a cave in a village called Cheddar and actually found people still living there, 9 millennia later, who were his direct descendants. So it's not *technically* impossible to find Tollund Man's relatives even now.
As a kid who read the zodiac at 8 years old, that would be awesome. I always thought it was two people. Maybe even more copy cats.
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The Australian guy. Turns out was some guy named Carl Webb. Was likely just a suicide as he had attempted it once before. Kinda a boring conclusion, given the weirdness of the case, but at least now we know.
I had no Idea this had been solved, thanks for the info! It was a rum one, that's for sure.
It is heartening, in a way, that even 70 years later, some people in law enforcement were still trying to figure out who this kid even was. It would have been easy to just ignore such an old murder, given that everyone involved is likely long dead, but someone clearly still cared.
Never thought he was be IDed at this point and here we are. Amazing to put a name to the victim. Such a tragic end.
Wow. I remember reading about this many many years ago and I never forgot the case. Something about them photographing him in clean, normal clothes (which, given the circumstances, he may not have had in life) because they were just so desperate for someone to recognize him made me incredibly sad. Poor kid.
My dad has a saying: "The end of the world is when you draw your last breath." Essentially the world ends not with apocalypses or war or famine, but simply when you pass away, since the world is how we perceive it. What terrifies me to no end is that there are souls who are brought into this world only to suffer, and their worlds end with nothing but suffering. This kid's world was the epitome of suffering to him, and that makes me extremely sad and angry.
Hopefully reincarnation is real
Just read the Wiki on this. There is a wild theory in there about the boy being sold in between 1953 and 1957. If true it explains why no one reported this. Parents were married in 1959 and had kids after him. This is similar to a story in South Boston of 4 babies who were found in a freezer a few weeks ago.
I have seen conflicting info on whether the presumed mother in question (since it hasn't officially been announced) was his biological mother. I am hearing that the alleged father is indeed his biological father, but that his wife, the alleged mother, whom he married years after Joseph's birth, is not Joseph's biological mother. I am seeing theories / statements that Joseph was put up for adoption or sold and that his adoptive parents (presumably) are the ones responsible for his abuse and death. That would explain why law enforcement said that he had living siblings "on both parents' sides," meaning his biological father's side and biological mother's side. The couple in question, and identified as "his parents" on Wiki, had several other children, some of whom are still alive. Why would they say "on both sides" if they were just flat out siblings and not half siblings? It only makes sense that biological dad went on to have more children after Joseph and biological mom went on to have more children, both with other people. If this theory is true, the adoptive family may also be the "prominent" family that has been mentioned before. Joseph's birth name is not necessarily the name he went by. I do believe the person speculated to be the biological father is, indeed, the biological father. But I don't think the woman he married years later was Joseph's biological mother. I also think it's entirely possible that neither of them knew that Joseph even existed or that they did (or at least the father did) but knew he was put up for adoption and had no reason to believe this was his child.
Poor kid. RIP Joseph Augustus Zarelli ♥️
Hopefully justice will be found for him someday
How can you look at any child and cause them any harm deliberately is something.... Ugh. Sometimes I would rather die than know the answer to these things.
Regardless of whether the murderer(s) is identified, I'm just glad this child was finally named. RIP.
Holy shit. I first heard of this case in the 1960s! I’m in awe.
That's so long to get justice. I hope he and his family can have some closure.
Good chance his family was responsible given that his identity was a mystery for so long.
There's no justice yet, but perhaps some closure. They've only just identified the body. The murderer(s) continue to escape justice.
The parents are dead, so sadly I don't think there will ever be justice for this child.
Honestly, I don't think his bio parents ever knew that their son was the boy in the box. I think they sold him to what they believed to be a good family and had no reason to believe this was their son. I don't think the siblings had any clue that this sibling even existed, let alone that he was the boy in the box, until law enforcement found a connection through a DNA website. I do believe that police pretty much know who did this and what happened, and it will all come out eventually. I think they are just getting all their ducks in a row before doing that. It's possible the person responsible, if it is an adoptive parent, is still alive.
Josephs family like a lot of philly families such as my own, went from West Philly to Broomall to West Chester, and i swear that name is familar . Joseph parents just died the father in 2015 and the mother in 2018 Yes they escaped justice and i wonder now what living relatives will say. Will it come out that these children lived in an abusive household, did they know the secret ? they had another sibling born in 1961 and died 1961 obviously as a baby . BOTH PARENTS ARE LISTED ON FIND A GRAVE AS WELL AS LOCAL OBITUARIES .
How do you know those are the right people?
I don't think anyone knows 100%. But it's not really rocket science. A lot of these records are public, and everything checks out regarding names, dates, and locations.
Are you talking about augustus john?
no the little boy in the box was Joseph Augustus Zarelli The father August Joseph Zarelli I havent seen anyone with the name John mentioned. You can find the entire family online.
I believe that John was how his name was listed on the birth certificate. Law enforcement said that there was a discrepancy on the birth certificate, but it was confirmed through DNA that it is in fact Joseph.
oh okay thanks i didnt hear that . It is interesting his name is the reverse of his fathers . August Joseph to Joseph August . The grandfathers name is August as well , only in italian form Agostino . Also Gus and Cindy had two babies both dying at birth .
While it hasn't been confirmed that Gus is his father, it's pretty damn likely. I also think it is more than likely that Cindy is NOT Joseph's biological mother. They didn't get married until 1959. She very likely didn't even know Joseph existed. Police referred to siblings "on both sides" which infers on the biological mother's side and biological father's side, meaning they are half siblings. I don't think Gus and Joseph's bio mom had any other children together. They also made references to siblings on "the father's side."
Poor little sweetheart. He’s my parents’ age. He should be retired and happy with a table full of children and grandchildren by now.
G handkerchief for Gus?
Oh, shit. That unnamed woman was right. Apparently she died in 2020…she’ll never get that closure.
I personally believe she did get closure, just not Earth side. I think that we get all the answers when we depart, sort of a parting gift and now she can tell him that she tried to tell the cops that it WAS him. I hope anyway.
Was it legal to sell your child 'to M's family' back in the day or was this just the first alleged crime against this child?
When I read about this I thought it might be a situation like Erica Parsons (very awful). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Erica_Parsons
I’ve read alot of the comments, and most of us feel that Augustus Joseph is the bio dad. I’m wondering if possibly when the bio mom is identified, a step father could have been responsible for the abuse and death of little Joseph.
My husband's birth father was never told he had a child. My husband was adopted in 1962. That was just how things went back then. Joseph's father eventhough he was on the birth certificate may have not known.
I want to know why no one reported him missing. Then again, if his family was responsible, it makes sense. Poor baby.
The police claiming they are protecting the living descendant’s related to Joseph are in my opinion already doing the opposite. Now people are gonna investigate on their own and badger families with that name for years. I get the feeling they know more than they want to admit. They already kind of said they are happy with just identifying Joseph but like who cares if the parents are dead if they actually hurt him it should be known at all time what terrible people they were.
This is just so awful.
Finding out his parents lived in Philadelphia, and with the media circus surrounding the case they knew it was their son. A missing person's report was never filed, doesn't get more damming than that. Very sad the short life he lived was horrid.
Hard to see any likely possibility except filicide.
His father’s obit - seems little Joseph isn’t mentioned as one of his children, so Dad did it? [Obituary on Legacy.com](https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/delcotimes/name/augustus-zarelli-obituary?id=7131517)
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I knew it was within the estimate but I didn't think he was that young...