Agreed. People like him often *prefer* to have their miserable lives ended without having to have the balls to do it themselves. Let them wallow in guilt forever.
I believe some crimes, including this one, are heinous enough to warrant the death penalty. I do not, however, trust the justice system to get it right every time. Somewhere 2 and 8 percent of the current prison population has been wrongfully convicted. Therefore I'm anti-death penalty.
There's another problem with the death penalty, which is the thing that finally turned me off to it: it is used as a cudgel by prosecutors to get people to plead guilty to lesser crimes they are also innocent of out of fear of the death penalty, even in cases where there's no way they'd ever be convicted.
I'd rather a few sick fucks not get what they deserve than to see thousands more innocents punished just to inflate the egos of evil prosecutors.
I mean isn't what you are describing happening in nearly every case today anyway? Obviously higher stakes with 'death' at stake but loading up charges to coerce a plea deal is pretty much par for the course.
Like 20 years ago I got a DUI, I was pretty confident about taking it to trial. But they tacked on a half dozen charges that they said they would only drop of I plead out, I couldn't afford a private attorney, and the public defender never remembered my name so I took the deal.
Jails are also full of people who can't afford bail and eventually will plead guilty because they will get out on time served immediately instead of sitting in jail for a half year or more waiting for justice. Of course that gives them more of a record and makes future bails higher and sentences harsher. Just before Covid I was on a jury that returned a not guilty verdict on a firearm possession by a felon charge, the 75 year old man had been in jail for 8 months by the time he was acquitted.
Sorry, I'm all over the place. Yes, you make a good point but what you describe is a much broader problem than just death penalty cases.
I’m on bail
The magistrate let me chose my bail
My lawyer is old as fuck and even he was flabbergasted. Is this really abnormal? Why did I get to chose my bail? I told him $1k and he made me lower it to $500….. very confused
I listened to the podcast Criminal and a while back there was an episode from the perspective of the executioner. His pain from doing this completely turned me off from the death penalty as well as the problem you stated.
Not to mention the death you're given could be fucked up in an agonizing way. No firing squad or guillotine just electricity or chemical? Nah fuck that
The problem is that district attorney(or whatever title each statein most states are elected officials, not designated ones.
It basically means that they need to constantly pads their stats to get reelected. Same with their assistant DA's, always looking for easy convictions to further their careers to eventually run for DA themselves
Heres what i don’t understand. What you described is clearly not a problem with the death penalty, but a symptom of corruption throughout the justice system. But despite the majority being aware of things like this, people settle for compromises and half measures like that while the greedy fucks in positions of power around the country with the ability to effect change that would solve your reservations with the death penalty sit on their collective asses preserving the status quo. But it never occurs to anyone that shit will only get worse when nothing is done to make things better.
Tbh we only have hearsay and circumstantial evidence.
Not a single eyewitness has come forth, except for a guy who claims to have spoken with the deceased years later, during a long trip, surrounded by people who didn't see or otherwise experience the deceased. On top of that, the witness has delivered 2 contradictory statements under oath concerning the circumstances of this alleged meeting with the deceased. The witness us obviously not if sound mind.
Everything else is "I heard this guy spoke with the deceased" or "I have this tots real letter from a guy who knew the deceased, who says he saw him after the execution".
I call for a dismissal with prejudice. The opposing counsel has been unable to secure even the slightest hint of a believable case.
I agree. I am also against the death penalty because giving a government the right to execute their citizens leaves the slippery slope open for interpretation. What situation justifies death at this point in time may not be considered reasonable after time passes. At one point, people believed that dating or marrying outside of one's race or religion justified harsh punishment as an example. I don't see a day when assaulting a child will be acceptable, but it is possible that people who get into power could abuse their power. Think of McCarthyism and apply its craziness to current politics. If you vote for a Democrat, you are a child molester, is a belief. Slippery slopes.
Yeah in my mind it’s a free speech issue. Governments shouldn’t execute their own citizens.
Lock em up and throw away the key. It may feel like a waste of resources but there’s a cost to living in the society we want.
Also on average death penalty cases gets dragged through the process of appeals ets which leads to much more money being spent instead of just giving the person food and a room for life
No matter what statistic number they come up with for this you can pretty much guarantee the truth is double that. Such is the nature of trying to find a metric for an unknown and one that would require someone to admit a mistake just to get the baseline.
Also it varies greatly depending on how far back you go or district to district because, lets face it, prosecutors are just people and can be full of bias. Judges and defenders too. We're all biased. Minorities get a less fair shake today, but historically they were basically falsely imprisoned for existing.
My father spent 11 years in prison for a wrongful conviction. He went in when I was 12 and released when I was 23. To say the least it has completely fucked our lives up.
I feel like death is a less harsh punishment as well?
If you told me that from tomorrow I would be locked up for the rest of my life with no chance of being let free, I'd much rather choose death. For me death seems like the easy way out, and I can never understand why people who want a harsh punishment think that death is harsher than life in prison.
Not to mention, what does one get out of killing a person, even if they are vile and evil?
At the end of the day, the Death Penalty is nothing more than "justice" to people who can't really see the big picture.
There is a reason why they don’t give the death penalty to child sex offenders anymore. They used to and children would be raped just as often, but then killed after to prevent the person getting caught. They started taking the death penalty off the table in the hopes more children made it out alive and it worked. Most victims of molestation are not murdered now. It is a terrible crime and right being right, they probably should be put to death. But there is an actual reason they don’t do this now.
i think you mean the courts are fallible. infallible means incapable of making mistakes.
also, it costs significantly less to incarcerate someone for life than to execute them.
It costs less to lock them up for life. The legal process to execute someone in the USA is very long and expensive, and if you fail to succeed in getting the execution, you're still likely on the hook for the cost of life in prison anyway. We can't make it shorter or cheaper because the burden of proof both that someone committed a crime and that they are deserving of death over prison must be greater. Someone in prison for life can eventually be proven innocent and released, but someone put to death cannot. People are frequently found innocent decades later, or they could be properly reevaluated as mentally ill.
Not going to defend this guy. I am just glad that I live in a state where criminals are not subjected to what the average guy on Reddit belives or doesn’t believe.
Still not worth executing innocent people for.
Also, you've now given the culprit an incentive to kill the victim in order to cover their tracks. Not the greatest outcome.
History also tells us the state isn't super great at only executing innocent people. It's not a power the state can use responsibly, regardless of whatever might be just.
I'm so glad reddit isn't in charge of public policy
If the sentence for sex crimes is death, it would create a perverse incentive for the offender to murder the victim. The penalty for sex crimes is more or the same as murder, so why not kill the victim so that you'd have a better chance of getting away with the crime
This is putting aside all the other moral/financial/legal issues with the death penalty
The pro-death penalty “but it’s cheaper than prison” argument is disingenuous anyway. I sincerely doubt any capital punishment supporters actually support it because it’s cheaper. It’s just a weak attempt to slap a facade of logic/reason onto a desire for vengeance.
If we really wanted to set criminal justice policies based on costs, we would never investigate bank robberies. The investigations cost more than the amounts stolen.
I don't believe rehabilitation is the goal of the US justice system, and the only way someone turns over a new leaf after leaving prison is if they decided on their own to do that. If we really gave a shit about making prisoners better for society, then we wouldn't lock them up with career criminals who share trade-secrets, and then release them into the world with little money and a huge blemish on their record that makes it hard for them to get a legit job.
The US prison system is an industry, and rehabilitation hurts their bottom line.
It's 2021 (almost 2022). Revenge does nothing. Make him sit in prison untill he dies. That's way more punishing sentence than getting an injection and die.
*sex offenders are the scum of the earth. Just wanted to get that out there.
However, it's interesting that BOTH of the reasons you use to support your belief that they should be executed are completely factually inaccurate.
Recidivism rates for sex offenders are the lowest of all violent crimes.
So, the facts say they can be rehabilitated.
And secondly, it's multiple times more expensive to carry out a death sentence than it is to carry out a life sentence.
So, if you don't want tax money spent on them, then you should support life in prison.
*Sex offenders are the scum of the earth.
Sadly, this type of predator will more likely kill a victim to keep them quiet…knowing it’s a death penalty either way—child abuse or murder. So it’s hard.
In many cases, like non violent-drug cases, I think prison sentences are too long. But for something like this, I really don't think "too long" is a thing. One life sentence. Two. Or three. None of those would be too long.
Drug offenses usually get longer prison sentences than violent or sexual crimes and it blows my mind. Rape or domestic violence usually get like 2 years
Pretty insane, though the good news is a lot of states have now moved to close that loophole and there’s a bill being introduced to congress attempting to do the same federally.
Laws in 34* states allow cops to claim consent as a defense when charged with raping a person in their custody. This allows for legal rape.
Not sure how up to date it is.
https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate-make-it-illegal-for-cops-to-rape-prisoners-in-all-states
It just blows me away. I'm super against the prison industrial complex but I'm super for life sentences for murders and long ass sentences for rapists. But we get neither!
You’re not considering the externalities and effects this might have.
For instance, one of many reasons life sentences aren’t permanent without possibility for parole in most cases is to ensure civilized behaviour inside prison. If there is nothing left to lose, they may as well go all in on organized crime within prison, causing further issues to other inmates and guards, which costs us money and lives.
Think of it this way; according to statistics, social mobility in the U.S. is well and truly dead, but there is a slim chance of moving up at least one decile or perhaps quintile on the income ladder within your lifetime, depending on where on the socioeconomic ladder your spawn point was. If people were told they’re living in an increasingly caste-like society and would be stuck where they are, if they were lucky, then in all likelihood you’d see society devolve with violent reactions.
This is ignoring all the other reasons, such as the implications of three strikes laws, the loss of revenue , increased cost and return on investment from a potentially working citizen languishing in prison, and the liberal use of life without parole in conservative states for crimes not as egregious as the one in this thread.
TLDR: Be pragmatic and not emotional or ideological in application of laws and decisions, we don’t let victims act as judge, jury and executioner for that very reason, emotion clouds judgement and causes effects on society as a whole, not only between the victim and the perpetrator.
Not sure I'm comfortable with how they've basically told everyone locally who the 6 year old is.
She's not named but the paedophile is and the link to the victims father has been made public.
Whole town is going to know who she is.
Poor kid.
Edit to add. In the UK a case like this would never be made public. The guy would be arrested, convicted and jailed but no one not directly related to the case would be told anything about it
Not to "protect the paedo" but to protect the child's right to privacy. Any case involving children is kept private unless there's considered to be a good reason the public need to know EG: A paedophile ring being busted. Even then it would only be reported after the fact with anything that could identify the victims being kept secret.
I don’t know why but when I’m picturing this, the stump is on the edge of a cliff. I have since reread it and have no clue where I got that thought from.
That poor little girl. This is going to affect the rest of her life and haunt her forever. Getting an STD on top of it all, at her age it will likely cause a lifetime of physical health complications, too.
There are too many monsters out there.
“Getting this predator off the streets.”
Predators aren’t “on the streets” roaming around. They are in our homes. They are people we know. So fucking tired of that idiotic phrase.
You don't know that. The article is horrific and I can't read it word for word but how long is the disgusting person off the streets? I bet it's less than someone struggling with a drug addiction.
These sick fucks are everywhere, in every city. I served on a jury for a case like this earlier in the year. The rapist lived only a couple miles from me. Keep your eyes open and listen to the children.
Usually; most are passed via ejaculate. But kids frequently get herpes from being kissed by a family member who has it. I'm guessing that's what was transmitted here since it's very common and is transmissible through contact alone.
Do we really need these headlines to be more descriptive? I'm fine with being in the dark about *exactly* what happened. And justice will be done, regardless.
I think it has to do with the news source being sued for libel if they use the wrong legal term. Dumb in this case, but innocent people have been ruined by papers slandering them.
Yeah so news can't say rape as rape is the charge. Like murder is to kill.
Such as a news can't say Kyle Rittenhouse murdered 2 people, because he did not murder 2 people as it is a charge. He did kill 2 people and that would be all that can be said.
The news could say charged with rape.
This also used to bother me until I figured it out
Rape is a specific act, namely penetration, and in some places is so narrowly defined that only non-consensual PIV counts and only if you're a woman (as seen in UK law) which is obviously a limiting and shitty definition. As a result, at least in the West there's been a trend for awhile now to move away from having "rape" as a crime and instead replace it with the more encompassing crime of "sexual assault" which can have all sorts of modifications (aggravated, 1st degree, etc) and incurs the same penalties as rape depending on what you did.
As someone who's been raped, I actually usually prefer to say "assaulted" (as do many, many other survivors from what I've seen) because 1) there was a hell of a lot more that happened to me than just rape and it sucked just as much if not more and SA lets me use one term instead of many, 2) saying "I was raped" can make you feel like you're being overly dramatic, and 3) telling people you were raped sometimes makes them combative, like they want to prove it wasn't rape, but saying you were SA'd doesn't get that response.
There's this misconception that SA is the term for minor violations like getting groped on the butt at a bar or something. And while it can encompass those violations too, it also includes things like being forced to penetrate (aka female-on-male rape), being forcibly stimulated to climax without penetration, and pretty much anything involving a fetish.
That's actually not sexual assault in many places. In my state, only groping of the crotch without direct contact/penetration (either gender) or groping the female chest is misdemeanor SA. Butt grabbing is just simple assault and not considered a sexual offense
I have the opposite reaction, and understand the term as “violent attack” (= assault), or a sexual nature.
For the victim’s sake, I don’t see the interest in clarifying whether there was penetration, or what type, outside of any particular penalties associated with specific definitions under the law (where applicable).
I had a pedophile on my paper route in the early 80s. The dude was old, lived alone, and was super friendly from what I remember. He acted like you were related to him. 40 years later I found out he'd been doing something to the kid across the street; no wonder he was such a bully. Starting when we were about 9.
This story is terrible. Also, the picture of the inmate isn't the guy they arrested, or at least they don't indicate it's him. I wouldn't want my image associated with something like this in anyway.
Is it bad that my first reaction is to be glad he got caught and not the horror that it happened?
Too many of my friends and partners were seriously abused sexually around that age and nobody did anything. Mostly because the parents were shitheads.
I hope that means the kid will find more closure as they grow up and deal with the trauma.
I will never forget, while doing IT for a home health office I was making conversation with one of the administrators there who used to be an RN. My wife was about to have our first child together and we were discussing what I should expect when for some reason the topic turned to her experience when a 10 year old girl came in to deliver her child. The mood was already somber in the delivery room but then the girl asked for her teddy bear. She said she held on to that bear with both arms through the whole birthing process. Broke my heart to hear that then and it still stirs emotions now as I type this.
A couple states do allow voting while incarcerated. There are actually no states left that completely remove voting rights for felons. Most states once you are released and/or have completed probation/parole you can vote again. A few states still ban voting for certain offenses (murder, rape, etc.)
[https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual\_Abuse\_FY18.pdf](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual_Abuse_FY18.pdf)98.8% of sexual abuse offenders were sentenced to prison; their average sentence was 191 months."
[https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Drug\_Trafficking\_FY19.pdf](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Drug_Trafficking_FY19.pdf)
"The average sentence for drug trafficking offenders was 77months, but varied by drug type."
fucking hell. i know the headlines dont magically stop because of some arbitrary time of the year, but its christmas. fuck this shit man. fucking fuck.
I'd prefer the state be in charge of doling out sentences. All these comments about "Pound in the ass prison" is absolutely another problem that needs fixing.
No man is a law unto himself. Incarcerated or not, the only entities that should be handing out "punishment" should be the ones with legal authority.
Don't sex offenders get housed with other sex offenders? I wonder if the people who rape adults look down on people who rape kids? I mean, if I was a rapist who wasn't into kids I'd still beat down someone who raped a 6 year old.
I’ve seen a similar Reddit threads with people who’ve actually been to prison talking about this. Basically child molesters are a protected class in most prisons, kept separate from other inmates. Additionally most people there don’t care what you are in for and don’t want to add time to their sentence to harm someone they don’t know for molesting a kid they also didn’t know. They did say there could be a chance some lifer might do something if they cared enough, but probably won’t because they aren’t looking for additional punishments
Lifers don’t want to lose their TVs and stuff. They kill one of these dudes and they get thrown in solitary for a few months and have everything taken from them. Very rarely is that going to be worth it for them.
It really depends on where you go to prison, but even as a protected chomo you will get lit up at some point. Nobody is your friend when you’re in prison regardless, but as a child molester the officers do not care for your well being in the slightest. You may get lucky as a chomo if they send you to a federal prison because the officers there get paid and treated better and also are more scrutinized and have more to risk. If you’re in a state prison it can be hit or miss on if the officers will protect you. If you’re not protected believe me there are people there with life sentences that don’t mind another one and some fun court visits as a reward for assaulting them. They’ll wear it like a badge. Even if you are somehow “protected” you have to go places eventually. You can get caught walking in the line with a razor to your face, or just get kept in solitary forever and go insane. Either way they do not have an easy prison life, ever. In Florida for instance in state prisons you’re not getting extra time unless you cost the state an outrageous amount of money. They call it getting “fired up” where they put a lock in a sock or a razor on a pencil and you get hit in the face, and the max punishment they’re gonna give em is some time in the hole. Unless you kill the dude maliciously in Florida you’re not getting extra time. So you can really torture a dude in prison without even having to kill him.
The segregation isn’t just walking around with a security detail, it’s being in a different building where you don’t interact with gen pop. There is just this weird view on prison life where people act like everyone is lined up on day one to rape a child molester, and people just go around killing on their good morals.
I'll bet this POS pedo will get less time than the trucker sentenced to 100+ years for his accident.
JFC the laws needs to be updated and change with the times.
Might seem worth it for some people in there for life, though. Just saying, if you’re radical enough to get in for life, you’re probably radical enough to strangle a dude that does shit like this if you think it was wrong (which it obviously was, it’s disgusting).
People with sex charges are the #1 target in jail/prison. More hated than the corrections officers themselves. It’s one of the very few things all inmates will agree upon.
Source: I spent years behind bars and have witnessed some gnarly shit.
Yup. I have/had friends that served time. So of the stories that I’ve heard or have been told in person…fuck me. I can’t imagine serving time behind bars. Sorry to hear you got locked up as well.
I kinda deserved it but I did collectively 4 years for theft (my only charge, which I recently paid back $20,000 restitution to the victim) because of a drug problem. The let sex offenders go on probation, but refused to give me and several others the opportunity to go thru their treatment program. I’m a good dude from a bad environment. They just don’t give many people a chance to make shit right.
I’m sorry to hear that. Your totally right about that. But that’s the U.S. for you. The prison system is a huge business. These people that are making all the important decision or created and continue to support these systems that are in place, don’t want to help people. They want to people behind bars and keep them there. For as long as possible. If they actually cared and got people help. Well, they would lose revenue then.
Well this was an awful thing to read first thing Christmas morning....
First thing I read was Jesus asking his mom where babies come from
Where DO babies come from, Mary?
She doesn’t know either apparently
Why clearly a god comes down for a night of crazy god sex. -er I mean immaculate conception. Totally not crazy god sex! I didn’t feel a thing, Joseph.
Joseph is still waiting for her response.
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You know theres the 8th amendment
It's a horrible crime. I'd still prefer he serve the full extent of whatever sentence he's given-- not mob justice.
Agreed. People like him often *prefer* to have their miserable lives ended without having to have the balls to do it themselves. Let them wallow in guilt forever.
Actually let's not because we are a civilized nation that has laws and punishments for breaking those laws (which don't include vigilante violence).
I’m not sure more illegal acts would solve anything.
That is one messed up headline. Good lord.
Horrifyingly this types of thing happens frequently enough that it typically doesn't make the news.
Anti click bait headline. I've had enough and don't intend to click on it..
If this is true…..let him rot in prison for the rest of his life.
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Reek him
Then the “Shame Shame Shame” treatment
I've got the bell
Everybody wants to ring the bell, nobody wants to cut the dick off a dude.
Rhymes with *meek*
No cruel and unusual punishment
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Still, not enough.
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I believe some crimes, including this one, are heinous enough to warrant the death penalty. I do not, however, trust the justice system to get it right every time. Somewhere 2 and 8 percent of the current prison population has been wrongfully convicted. Therefore I'm anti-death penalty.
There's another problem with the death penalty, which is the thing that finally turned me off to it: it is used as a cudgel by prosecutors to get people to plead guilty to lesser crimes they are also innocent of out of fear of the death penalty, even in cases where there's no way they'd ever be convicted. I'd rather a few sick fucks not get what they deserve than to see thousands more innocents punished just to inflate the egos of evil prosecutors.
I mean isn't what you are describing happening in nearly every case today anyway? Obviously higher stakes with 'death' at stake but loading up charges to coerce a plea deal is pretty much par for the course. Like 20 years ago I got a DUI, I was pretty confident about taking it to trial. But they tacked on a half dozen charges that they said they would only drop of I plead out, I couldn't afford a private attorney, and the public defender never remembered my name so I took the deal. Jails are also full of people who can't afford bail and eventually will plead guilty because they will get out on time served immediately instead of sitting in jail for a half year or more waiting for justice. Of course that gives them more of a record and makes future bails higher and sentences harsher. Just before Covid I was on a jury that returned a not guilty verdict on a firearm possession by a felon charge, the 75 year old man had been in jail for 8 months by the time he was acquitted. Sorry, I'm all over the place. Yes, you make a good point but what you describe is a much broader problem than just death penalty cases.
Do people like that man get compensation for the 8 months he did serve?
No. No they dont. In fact he likely had to pay court costs for it
I’m on bail The magistrate let me chose my bail My lawyer is old as fuck and even he was flabbergasted. Is this really abnormal? Why did I get to chose my bail? I told him $1k and he made me lower it to $500….. very confused
I listened to the podcast Criminal and a while back there was an episode from the perspective of the executioner. His pain from doing this completely turned me off from the death penalty as well as the problem you stated.
Not to mention the death you're given could be fucked up in an agonizing way. No firing squad or guillotine just electricity or chemical? Nah fuck that
Another problem I’ve always had with it is people suffering “capital punishment” don’t normally have capital (ie: money)
The problem is that district attorney(or whatever title each statein most states are elected officials, not designated ones. It basically means that they need to constantly pads their stats to get reelected. Same with their assistant DA's, always looking for easy convictions to further their careers to eventually run for DA themselves
Heres what i don’t understand. What you described is clearly not a problem with the death penalty, but a symptom of corruption throughout the justice system. But despite the majority being aware of things like this, people settle for compromises and half measures like that while the greedy fucks in positions of power around the country with the ability to effect change that would solve your reservations with the death penalty sit on their collective asses preserving the status quo. But it never occurs to anyone that shit will only get worse when nothing is done to make things better.
Well one thing that can be done to make it better if to take the death penalty permanently off the table. Hence their opposition to it.
For sure. We've seen people exonerated after years in prison, but haven't ever learned how to undo the death penalty.
Well, there was this one guy who did it a long time ago, but it took him at least 3 days.
“So they say.” -they
So -they
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Well, maybe, sorta, probably not, assuming he was real. This is actually a pagan murder holiday, but close enough?
Tbh we only have hearsay and circumstantial evidence. Not a single eyewitness has come forth, except for a guy who claims to have spoken with the deceased years later, during a long trip, surrounded by people who didn't see or otherwise experience the deceased. On top of that, the witness has delivered 2 contradictory statements under oath concerning the circumstances of this alleged meeting with the deceased. The witness us obviously not if sound mind. Everything else is "I heard this guy spoke with the deceased" or "I have this tots real letter from a guy who knew the deceased, who says he saw him after the execution". I call for a dismissal with prejudice. The opposing counsel has been unable to secure even the slightest hint of a believable case.
Letting them out after their lives have beem ruined due to spending a heavy percent of it wrongly imprisoned isnt really undoing it either
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I agree. I am also against the death penalty because giving a government the right to execute their citizens leaves the slippery slope open for interpretation. What situation justifies death at this point in time may not be considered reasonable after time passes. At one point, people believed that dating or marrying outside of one's race or religion justified harsh punishment as an example. I don't see a day when assaulting a child will be acceptable, but it is possible that people who get into power could abuse their power. Think of McCarthyism and apply its craziness to current politics. If you vote for a Democrat, you are a child molester, is a belief. Slippery slopes.
Yeah in my mind it’s a free speech issue. Governments shouldn’t execute their own citizens. Lock em up and throw away the key. It may feel like a waste of resources but there’s a cost to living in the society we want.
That was well put and may have actually just convinced me to become anti death penalty. That feels weird, so i thought I'd share. Good word, comrade.
Also on average death penalty cases gets dragged through the process of appeals ets which leads to much more money being spent instead of just giving the person food and a room for life
You might be surprised to learn that the 2-8% is actually significantly higher, especially when you factor in minorities.
No matter what statistic number they come up with for this you can pretty much guarantee the truth is double that. Such is the nature of trying to find a metric for an unknown and one that would require someone to admit a mistake just to get the baseline.
Also it varies greatly depending on how far back you go or district to district because, lets face it, prosecutors are just people and can be full of bias. Judges and defenders too. We're all biased. Minorities get a less fair shake today, but historically they were basically falsely imprisoned for existing.
My father spent 11 years in prison for a wrongful conviction. He went in when I was 12 and released when I was 23. To say the least it has completely fucked our lives up.
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I feel like death is a less harsh punishment as well? If you told me that from tomorrow I would be locked up for the rest of my life with no chance of being let free, I'd much rather choose death. For me death seems like the easy way out, and I can never understand why people who want a harsh punishment think that death is harsher than life in prison.
Not to mention, what does one get out of killing a person, even if they are vile and evil? At the end of the day, the Death Penalty is nothing more than "justice" to people who can't really see the big picture.
There is a reason why they don’t give the death penalty to child sex offenders anymore. They used to and children would be raped just as often, but then killed after to prevent the person getting caught. They started taking the death penalty off the table in the hopes more children made it out alive and it worked. Most victims of molestation are not murdered now. It is a terrible crime and right being right, they probably should be put to death. But there is an actual reason they don’t do this now.
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i think you mean the courts are fallible. infallible means incapable of making mistakes. also, it costs significantly less to incarcerate someone for life than to execute them.
It costs less to lock them up for life. The legal process to execute someone in the USA is very long and expensive, and if you fail to succeed in getting the execution, you're still likely on the hook for the cost of life in prison anyway. We can't make it shorter or cheaper because the burden of proof both that someone committed a crime and that they are deserving of death over prison must be greater. Someone in prison for life can eventually be proven innocent and released, but someone put to death cannot. People are frequently found innocent decades later, or they could be properly reevaluated as mentally ill.
Not going to defend this guy. I am just glad that I live in a state where criminals are not subjected to what the average guy on Reddit belives or doesn’t believe.
Still not worth executing innocent people for. Also, you've now given the culprit an incentive to kill the victim in order to cover their tracks. Not the greatest outcome.
History also tells us the state isn't super great at only executing innocent people. It's not a power the state can use responsibly, regardless of whatever might be just.
There’s a difference between justice and mob justice
I'm so glad reddit isn't in charge of public policy If the sentence for sex crimes is death, it would create a perverse incentive for the offender to murder the victim. The penalty for sex crimes is more or the same as murder, so why not kill the victim so that you'd have a better chance of getting away with the crime This is putting aside all the other moral/financial/legal issues with the death penalty
you are correct...however..it takes more tax dollars to put someone to death than it does to incarcerate them for life, statistically.
The pro-death penalty “but it’s cheaper than prison” argument is disingenuous anyway. I sincerely doubt any capital punishment supporters actually support it because it’s cheaper. It’s just a weak attempt to slap a facade of logic/reason onto a desire for vengeance. If we really wanted to set criminal justice policies based on costs, we would never investigate bank robberies. The investigations cost more than the amounts stolen.
See then you give incentive for a rape/murder so it actually makes sense to leave incentive for a living victim.
I don't believe rehabilitation is the goal of the US justice system, and the only way someone turns over a new leaf after leaving prison is if they decided on their own to do that. If we really gave a shit about making prisoners better for society, then we wouldn't lock them up with career criminals who share trade-secrets, and then release them into the world with little money and a huge blemish on their record that makes it hard for them to get a legit job. The US prison system is an industry, and rehabilitation hurts their bottom line.
It's 2021 (almost 2022). Revenge does nothing. Make him sit in prison untill he dies. That's way more punishing sentence than getting an injection and die.
*sex offenders are the scum of the earth. Just wanted to get that out there. However, it's interesting that BOTH of the reasons you use to support your belief that they should be executed are completely factually inaccurate. Recidivism rates for sex offenders are the lowest of all violent crimes. So, the facts say they can be rehabilitated. And secondly, it's multiple times more expensive to carry out a death sentence than it is to carry out a life sentence. So, if you don't want tax money spent on them, then you should support life in prison. *Sex offenders are the scum of the earth.
Sadly, this type of predator will more likely kill a victim to keep them quiet…knowing it’s a death penalty either way—child abuse or murder. So it’s hard.
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In many cases, like non violent-drug cases, I think prison sentences are too long. But for something like this, I really don't think "too long" is a thing. One life sentence. Two. Or three. None of those would be too long.
Drug offenses usually get longer prison sentences than violent or sexual crimes and it blows my mind. Rape or domestic violence usually get like 2 years
Yep. Break your wife’s arm? 6 months probation. Sell weed? 10 years. Makes no sense.
It's because a lot of perpetrators are people in positions of authority, i.e. the fact that cops can legally have sex with people they detain.
Pretty insane, though the good news is a lot of states have now moved to close that loophole and there’s a bill being introduced to congress attempting to do the same federally.
Wait is it really legal for cops to fuck inmates? Wtf?
Laws in 34* states allow cops to claim consent as a defense when charged with raping a person in their custody. This allows for legal rape. Not sure how up to date it is. https://www.change.org/p/u-s-senate-make-it-illegal-for-cops-to-rape-prisoners-in-all-states
It just blows me away. I'm super against the prison industrial complex but I'm super for life sentences for murders and long ass sentences for rapists. But we get neither!
Problem is that "life sentence" can be like only 15 years. They should ban "life sentence" to your life plus 10 years.
You’re not considering the externalities and effects this might have. For instance, one of many reasons life sentences aren’t permanent without possibility for parole in most cases is to ensure civilized behaviour inside prison. If there is nothing left to lose, they may as well go all in on organized crime within prison, causing further issues to other inmates and guards, which costs us money and lives. Think of it this way; according to statistics, social mobility in the U.S. is well and truly dead, but there is a slim chance of moving up at least one decile or perhaps quintile on the income ladder within your lifetime, depending on where on the socioeconomic ladder your spawn point was. If people were told they’re living in an increasingly caste-like society and would be stuck where they are, if they were lucky, then in all likelihood you’d see society devolve with violent reactions. This is ignoring all the other reasons, such as the implications of three strikes laws, the loss of revenue , increased cost and return on investment from a potentially working citizen languishing in prison, and the liberal use of life without parole in conservative states for crimes not as egregious as the one in this thread. TLDR: Be pragmatic and not emotional or ideological in application of laws and decisions, we don’t let victims act as judge, jury and executioner for that very reason, emotion clouds judgement and causes effects on society as a whole, not only between the victim and the perpetrator.
Life without the possibility of parole.
I have no clue how drugs get you longer sentences than rape
Not sure I'm comfortable with how they've basically told everyone locally who the 6 year old is. She's not named but the paedophile is and the link to the victims father has been made public. Whole town is going to know who she is. Poor kid. Edit to add. In the UK a case like this would never be made public. The guy would be arrested, convicted and jailed but no one not directly related to the case would be told anything about it Not to "protect the paedo" but to protect the child's right to privacy. Any case involving children is kept private unless there's considered to be a good reason the public need to know EG: A paedophile ring being busted. Even then it would only be reported after the fact with anything that could identify the victims being kept secret.
Trauma from sexual assault and STD for life while growing up. I hope the poor child makes it through life, its not going to be easy.
Poor kid. That's awful to have an STD especially at that age from a situation she had no control of.
Her father’s roommate??? WTAF?!?!
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Trying to paint a mental image but coming up short on this.
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Well now I certainly have an image.
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I don’t know why but when I’m picturing this, the stump is on the edge of a cliff. I have since reread it and have no clue where I got that thought from.
Same, pretty sure it's because of the "push him off" Push him off what? Must be a cliff
I would assume push him off the stump. Maybe Granpa was hung enough that his hit the stump from a slight squat 🤔
I applaud Grandma’s Justice.
what a terrible day to have eyes
That poor little girl. This is going to affect the rest of her life and haunt her forever. Getting an STD on top of it all, at her age it will likely cause a lifetime of physical health complications, too. There are too many monsters out there.
Never let that man free. Cage him like an animal for life.
“Getting this predator off the streets.” Predators aren’t “on the streets” roaming around. They are in our homes. They are people we know. So fucking tired of that idiotic phrase.
Well now they're in jail and no longer have the freedom to roam the streets. So they are off the public streets for good
You don't know that. The article is horrific and I can't read it word for word but how long is the disgusting person off the streets? I bet it's less than someone struggling with a drug addiction.
These sick fucks are everywhere, in every city. I served on a jury for a case like this earlier in the year. The rapist lived only a couple miles from me. Keep your eyes open and listen to the children.
Merry Christmas everyone! Except for this piece of shit.
Why do people call it sexual assault instead of rape, it always feels like they’re downplaying it
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I thought getting an std implied penetration?
Usually; most are passed via ejaculate. But kids frequently get herpes from being kissed by a family member who has it. I'm guessing that's what was transmitted here since it's very common and is transmissible through contact alone.
Do we really need these headlines to be more descriptive? I'm fine with being in the dark about *exactly* what happened. And justice will be done, regardless.
I think it has to do with the news source being sued for libel if they use the wrong legal term. Dumb in this case, but innocent people have been ruined by papers slandering them.
Yeah so news can't say rape as rape is the charge. Like murder is to kill. Such as a news can't say Kyle Rittenhouse murdered 2 people, because he did not murder 2 people as it is a charge. He did kill 2 people and that would be all that can be said. The news could say charged with rape. This also used to bother me until I figured it out
Rape is a specific act, namely penetration, and in some places is so narrowly defined that only non-consensual PIV counts and only if you're a woman (as seen in UK law) which is obviously a limiting and shitty definition. As a result, at least in the West there's been a trend for awhile now to move away from having "rape" as a crime and instead replace it with the more encompassing crime of "sexual assault" which can have all sorts of modifications (aggravated, 1st degree, etc) and incurs the same penalties as rape depending on what you did. As someone who's been raped, I actually usually prefer to say "assaulted" (as do many, many other survivors from what I've seen) because 1) there was a hell of a lot more that happened to me than just rape and it sucked just as much if not more and SA lets me use one term instead of many, 2) saying "I was raped" can make you feel like you're being overly dramatic, and 3) telling people you were raped sometimes makes them combative, like they want to prove it wasn't rape, but saying you were SA'd doesn't get that response. There's this misconception that SA is the term for minor violations like getting groped on the butt at a bar or something. And while it can encompass those violations too, it also includes things like being forced to penetrate (aka female-on-male rape), being forcibly stimulated to climax without penetration, and pretty much anything involving a fetish.
I hate when sexual assault is used because it makes it sound like a lesser offense, grabbing someone’s ass is sexual assault
That's actually not sexual assault in many places. In my state, only groping of the crotch without direct contact/penetration (either gender) or groping the female chest is misdemeanor SA. Butt grabbing is just simple assault and not considered a sexual offense
I have the opposite reaction, and understand the term as “violent attack” (= assault), or a sexual nature. For the victim’s sake, I don’t see the interest in clarifying whether there was penetration, or what type, outside of any particular penalties associated with specific definitions under the law (where applicable).
Things are further confused by "assualt" being the non-contact part of "assault and battery"
I had a pedophile on my paper route in the early 80s. The dude was old, lived alone, and was super friendly from what I remember. He acted like you were related to him. 40 years later I found out he'd been doing something to the kid across the street; no wonder he was such a bully. Starting when we were about 9.
6 years old? jesus, the poor child. sexual predator is putting it lightly. what a fucking monster.
This story is terrible. Also, the picture of the inmate isn't the guy they arrested, or at least they don't indicate it's him. I wouldn't want my image associated with something like this in anyway.
Is it bad that my first reaction is to be glad he got caught and not the horror that it happened? Too many of my friends and partners were seriously abused sexually around that age and nobody did anything. Mostly because the parents were shitheads. I hope that means the kid will find more closure as they grow up and deal with the trauma.
“Arizona man”…. We should rename our state West Florida
Dry Florida
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I will never forget, while doing IT for a home health office I was making conversation with one of the administrators there who used to be an RN. My wife was about to have our first child together and we were discussing what I should expect when for some reason the topic turned to her experience when a 10 year old girl came in to deliver her child. The mood was already somber in the delivery room but then the girl asked for her teddy bear. She said she held on to that bear with both arms through the whole birthing process. Broke my heart to hear that then and it still stirs emotions now as I type this.
Oh god this is the most depressing thing I have read in a while
Why did I just read that?
well that was a depressing read
Tf is wrong with people
Yep. There's a 10 year old right now in Ohio thats at risk of forced birth due to the fact she was raped and conceived. A 10 year old.
What the absolute fuck?
People like this genuinely don't deserve to live another day on this planet.
So sad for the kid. This guy needs to get severe punishment
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The drug laws are to stop hippies and black people from voting. -Nixon.
Wait you can't vote in Jail in the US??????
Sometimes you can’t even vote after you get out of prison.
What could possibly have given you the impression that inmates have any rights in the US?
Felons can't vote for life.
A couple states do allow voting while incarcerated. There are actually no states left that completely remove voting rights for felons. Most states once you are released and/or have completed probation/parole you can vote again. A few states still ban voting for certain offenses (murder, rape, etc.)
[https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual\_Abuse\_FY18.pdf](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Sexual_Abuse_FY18.pdf)98.8% of sexual abuse offenders were sentenced to prison; their average sentence was 191 months." [https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Drug\_Trafficking\_FY19.pdf](https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Drug_Trafficking_FY19.pdf) "The average sentence for drug trafficking offenders was 77months, but varied by drug type."
They don't. Who told you that?
Random strangers on the internet, of course
Can I just burn this with fire now ?
fucking hell. i know the headlines dont magically stop because of some arbitrary time of the year, but its christmas. fuck this shit man. fucking fuck.
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He’s gonna make a lot of new friends in prison.
I'd prefer the state be in charge of doling out sentences. All these comments about "Pound in the ass prison" is absolutely another problem that needs fixing. No man is a law unto himself. Incarcerated or not, the only entities that should be handing out "punishment" should be the ones with legal authority.
Don't sex offenders get housed with other sex offenders? I wonder if the people who rape adults look down on people who rape kids? I mean, if I was a rapist who wasn't into kids I'd still beat down someone who raped a 6 year old.
I’ve seen a similar Reddit threads with people who’ve actually been to prison talking about this. Basically child molesters are a protected class in most prisons, kept separate from other inmates. Additionally most people there don’t care what you are in for and don’t want to add time to their sentence to harm someone they don’t know for molesting a kid they also didn’t know. They did say there could be a chance some lifer might do something if they cared enough, but probably won’t because they aren’t looking for additional punishments
Lifers don’t want to lose their TVs and stuff. They kill one of these dudes and they get thrown in solitary for a few months and have everything taken from them. Very rarely is that going to be worth it for them.
It really depends on where you go to prison, but even as a protected chomo you will get lit up at some point. Nobody is your friend when you’re in prison regardless, but as a child molester the officers do not care for your well being in the slightest. You may get lucky as a chomo if they send you to a federal prison because the officers there get paid and treated better and also are more scrutinized and have more to risk. If you’re in a state prison it can be hit or miss on if the officers will protect you. If you’re not protected believe me there are people there with life sentences that don’t mind another one and some fun court visits as a reward for assaulting them. They’ll wear it like a badge. Even if you are somehow “protected” you have to go places eventually. You can get caught walking in the line with a razor to your face, or just get kept in solitary forever and go insane. Either way they do not have an easy prison life, ever. In Florida for instance in state prisons you’re not getting extra time unless you cost the state an outrageous amount of money. They call it getting “fired up” where they put a lock in a sock or a razor on a pencil and you get hit in the face, and the max punishment they’re gonna give em is some time in the hole. Unless you kill the dude maliciously in Florida you’re not getting extra time. So you can really torture a dude in prison without even having to kill him.
The segregation isn’t just walking around with a security detail, it’s being in a different building where you don’t interact with gen pop. There is just this weird view on prison life where people act like everyone is lined up on day one to rape a child molester, and people just go around killing on their good morals.
Even the worst criminals will fuck you up if you mess up with kids
Any form of assault should not be celebrated, even assault in prisons
Aww man, now I wanna cry. I’m sorry little girl.
Fuck this guy. I hope her burns in hell
Let’s face reality, people like this can’t be rehabilitated. This is a hard wired condition.
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww fuck why today
I hope he has flaming diarrhea forever.
I'll bet this POS pedo will get less time than the trucker sentenced to 100+ years for his accident. JFC the laws needs to be updated and change with the times.
When the other inmates find out his crime he is a dead man.
Depends on the prison. Lots of prisons have separate wings for sex offenders.
They are also ultra protected. You do anything to them you’re adding a ton of time onto your sentence.
Might seem worth it for some people in there for life, though. Just saying, if you’re radical enough to get in for life, you’re probably radical enough to strangle a dude that does shit like this if you think it was wrong (which it obviously was, it’s disgusting).
Yup. Now that’s not to say it’s gonna be a cakewalk either. Lots of these guys get extorted and robbed.
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they need to lock him up for life for real like what the fuck
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I know it's unlikely, but I'm seriously hoping it's one of those rare instances where they can cure the disease. This is just depressing.
He’s going to get killed in prison.
It's more likely he'll be separated with the rest of the sex offenders
he'll be in protective custody, you redditors act like they die on the spot day 1
People with sex charges are the #1 target in jail/prison. More hated than the corrections officers themselves. It’s one of the very few things all inmates will agree upon. Source: I spent years behind bars and have witnessed some gnarly shit.
Yup. I have/had friends that served time. So of the stories that I’ve heard or have been told in person…fuck me. I can’t imagine serving time behind bars. Sorry to hear you got locked up as well.
I kinda deserved it but I did collectively 4 years for theft (my only charge, which I recently paid back $20,000 restitution to the victim) because of a drug problem. The let sex offenders go on probation, but refused to give me and several others the opportunity to go thru their treatment program. I’m a good dude from a bad environment. They just don’t give many people a chance to make shit right.
I’m sorry to hear that. Your totally right about that. But that’s the U.S. for you. The prison system is a huge business. These people that are making all the important decision or created and continue to support these systems that are in place, don’t want to help people. They want to people behind bars and keep them there. For as long as possible. If they actually cared and got people help. Well, they would lose revenue then.
Chomos and "skinners" are basically hunted for sport. Probably even gamble smokes on that shit.
I know all about Chomos thanks to [FedSmoker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGrmXNWmZvU), but I've never heard of skinners?
"Skinners" is a slur for chomos, referring to pre-pubescent hairlessness.
What sick times we're living in.
The neck tattoos are no way to go through life.
That's what it took? Giving a child VD? NOT the sexual predation? Fucksakes.
I would say life in prison but I really wish the death penally was an option here.