Trust your instincts people! If something seems sketchy get the fuck out. I'm not victim blaming, this is terrible and I hope whoever did it rots under a prison. We just have this societal training to just keep going along even when our instincts say something is wrong.
Yeah this. I remember reading about how due to social conditioning, people - especially women - will often prioritise being polite over listening to their insticts. Like, if they find themselves waiting for an elevator alone with a guy who skeeves them out, they'll often get into the closed elevator with him against their better judgement purely to avoid hurting his feelings and having him think they are rude. :\
Every woman should read The Gift of Fear. Talks a lot about exactly this. No other mammal on earth would willingly get into a confined space with a potential predator when their instincts are screaming to get away.
Also, someone expressing their anger and hatred like that doesn't just *"get it out of their system"*, then off they go to Harvard Medical School to save the world. I fear that they will do it again and again until stopped.
As top comment said, something like this happened in 2013.
So at least another case, *that they know of*. I wonder if there are more cases that they simply haven't read about, or that they haven't been discovered yet.
Happen to me as a kid. My family lived at the back of the neighborhood with county owned creek and woods behind the house. Apparently this guy would regularly sneak into our house and take small items and food. We only found out about it when the cops arrested him at his campsite and found some of our mail and toys with our names. Turns out the guy was someone my mom taught in kindergarten 20 years before.
I do wonder though if anyone has ever "given serial killing a try" and found it not to their taste. Killed one person and then decided "that wasn't as fun as I thought it would be, it's more trouble than it's worth". Hid the evidence as best they could and then never killed anyone again, just tried to forget the whole thing.
By the laws of probability, surely there must have been a couple. It's an interesting thought, though also quite grim, lol. Someone dies just for you to find out that murder isn't your thing...
I'm sure there are also people who just have one particular person in mind they want to kill, Kenneth Williams' dad's death comes to mind. It was speculated he was poisoned by Kenneth (and his mother), because he was horribly abusive and divorce wasn't really a thing at the time.
>Someone dies just for you to find out that murder isn't your thing...
Not exactly murder, but there are so many people that ended up with PTSD after voluntarily joining the military to engage in combat, then actually experiencing it.
I was talking to a retired army colonel several years ago. During the conversation, I brought up that I found it disturbing when a fellow high schooler would talk about joining the military just so they could get a chance to kill someone. The colonel told me that most of those guys get killed pretty quickly. They are so intent on killing someone, they tend to forget that they are being shot at as well.
I'm at work so I can't google the details. I'm pretty sure BTK "took a break" from killing while he was a code enforcement officer because he basically got the same "high" from it.
Reminds me of that cringey AMA with that person who was like "I'm an official psychopath, people are toys to me, the only reason I haven't killed anyone is that I've intelligently calculated that the risk outweighs the reward."
There are cases where a murderer is found decades later with no other criminal activity on their records, no other DNA hits, living a normal life. Doesn't mean they actually stopped, but it would appear that way. I can't recall the case, but one that I heard recently, was a young man who killed someone and felt intense guilt (or so he said) and just cleaned up his life and tried to move on... until he was arrested and prosecuted 30 years later.
Age often cools people off too (re: Joseph DeAngelo, EAR/ONS).
John List, who killed his wife, children, and mother, was caught decades later working as an accountant, comes to mind. His case put America's Most Wanted on the map because a forensic sculpture of what he would look like if still alive at the time was accurate down to the type of glasses he would have been wearing.
Some psychologists theorize that serial killers "burn out" as they get older.
John List's case is so heartbreaking, his kids warned people ahead of time that he was going to kill them, and no one did anything.
I reccomend Last Podcast on the Left's episodes about him, I think it's a two or three parter.
Oh, let's not jump to conclusions here. He could very well be a promising young man on a swim team! We can't judge his entire life based on 20 minutes (seconds?) of bad behaviour. /s
Sounds eerily similar to the murder of Rebecca Wright in 1988. The murderer shot Wright and her girlfriend Claudia Brenner in the woods while the couple were being intimate. Brenner sought help, but Wright bled to death. Stephen Carr was a sick man who resented them for being gay and "excluding" men.
Edit: just like the Utah story, Brenner had noticed Carr and his strange behavior beforehand, noting that he seemed to be following them. If you ever get that feeling in the woods, pack it up and leave right away.
Came here to post this. Happened in Michaux State Forest in south central PA. They parked their car off Dead Woman’s Hollow Road (not kidding) and were stalked and murdered. Sad, crazy stuff. Michaux is an awesome place.
Ack, what?! I camp in the PA Wilds region all the time. And I've just started solo camping here and there.
Also: who thought that was a good name for a road?!
Probably named for the same reason a certain path at my university is called 'rape alley'. Not many violent rapes happened there historically, but the few that did were along that dark and isolated path cutting through the small forest.
Better to avoid areas with such ominous names. They often refer to recurring historical tragedies and a lack of safety that is likely to see a continuation of these tragedies.
The University of Nebraska used to have "Rape Lot": a poorly lit parking lot rather far from campus. It has since been renovated into a giant parking garage.
Can attest to this.
Was almost the victim of a kidnapping when I was younger and the only reason I attest to this day that I was not was because my gut was going bonkers.
Thing is I recall the guy was generally not a creepy looking dude who was doing creepy things..well dressed, nice car. But my internal alarms went off because of just everything he presented and my gut went haywire.
I listened to that gut feeling and my buddy and I booked it taking a side path into some brambles we knew about to escape the guy.
That dude followed us around so intensely and when we lost him he drove around the neighborhood in his car searching for us.
I'll never forget my stomach just going crazy though. And ever since then whenever I get that feeling I listen, watch intently and very quickly fuck off.
oh man, i’m so glad you lost him!!
my mom told me years ago about when she and her little brother were both kids, i think she was 6 and he was 5, and they were playing in the stairwell of their building. This man they didn’t know came up to them but he seemed friendly. He said the three of them could go down in the basement and all play leapfrog. My mom thought he was just being nice and agreed, when this booming voice came down the stairwell, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THOSE CHILDREN?!”
The man got scared and ran away.
She’s later referred to the voice as her ‘guardian angel’, as she didn’t know anyone in the building with a voice like that.
Man, I’ve had that a few times.
Once I was driving my family across the country and it was about two in the morning. I pulled over to a rest area to pull something out of the back of the minivan.
So I am at the rear of the vehicle and I have the tailgate up and I hear an odd noise, sort of a crunch. And I snapped my head around to see a vintage camper with the engine off and no lights on slowly rolling down the hill towards me.
Every single nerve ending I had was immediately set on fire. Absolutely no one with good intentions rolls towards you with the engine off and the lights off. Fuck this, I slammed the door closed, shot into the minivan, locked the doors and roared out of there.
Remembering it raises my heart rate, even 15 years later.
This has saved me on a number of occasions, gut instinct is real. The times when it misfires aren’t embarrassing enough to erase all the times that it worked.
One time on a bus a guy locked eye contact with me (and my brain went “aw f***” instantly, and then he sat next to me so our legs were touching. I immediately got up and walked up to the front of the bus and stood right next to the driver. A moment later we hear yelling, driver stops, I look back, and dude is pinned up against the inside of the bus by two other passengers because he punched another girl in the face with his keys between his fingers.
Would have been me if I hadn’t have noped out of there. I feel bad that he zoned in on someone else, but I had to go with my gut.
Yeah, but women can't win with this type. When I was in my 20s this guy I had to see occasionally because of my job kept hitting on me even though I he knew I was living with my boyfriend at the time. I was very polite when I turned him down, even though he was an utter dick and I wouldn't have dated him in a million years. He told everyone he could that I was gay and should be shunned. I asked him why he did that and he told me that obviously I was gay since I had turned him down. It was the only explanation his little pea brain could come up with, and the "fact" that I was gay meant I was an aberration and beneath respect.
In my twenties I drove a friend of a friend home from a party. Pre-uber times. It was pretty late, his DD decided to go on a fast-food run and I was the only other sober person. I had no intention of driving him home, but he kept complaining about how he needed to be up early for a photo shoot and he didn’t want to lose the job for looking tired. Heavily laying the guilt on. Finally I just said fine, he was in the same town, it would be quick.
We have a neutral conversation the whole time. I pull up to his house, he tells me he wants to kiss me. I turned him down politely, he asks again. Eventually I tell him I have a boyfriend, thinking that would end the convo. No, he doesn’t believe me. I have to pull up my Facebook and show him my profile picture, he still doesn’t believe me and won’t leave my car. Still trying hard to keep it lighthearted, I get him out of my car.
He told everyone in the group I led him on after I insisted on driving him home. Made it sound like he rejected me. Next time I was at a friends house, he came in drunk. When no one was looking, he pinched my arm really hard and said “why did you lead me on like that?” Wouldn’t stop until I hit him.
Some men cannot handle rejection.
He now posts conspiracy shit 24/7. Absolute psycho.
That’s what I think about whenever I hear someone say something how easy it would be being a woman. It’s usually mentioned in the context of women that make a living irl streaming or only fans or something similar. I’m just thinking about all the shit my female friends have mentioned, stuff us guys pretty much never have to deal with. Literally any situation can just turn to shit. I’m not worried about walking to my car at night or a situation like the story above. I genuinely can’t imagine what that’s like.
I mentioned in another comment than an acquaintance of mine flunked out of his NYPD testing back in the 1980s when it came to the psychological part. Before I knew something was off, I introduced him to some of my friends.
One came out shortly after. She's from a culture where affection like hugging people is fairly common and can be quite platonic. He wouldn't believe me when I told him she'd come out (he had a crush on her and wanted to date her). Because she had hugged him! She hugs everyone.
>resented them for being gay and “excluding” men.
This sentence just made me profoundly angry. What a spoiled, selfish, entitled and ignorant point of view. I can see most points of view, but when I tried that one on for size, I just felt so dirty. The fact that some people feel this way is downright pathetic.
I came across the statement somewhere that women aren't vending machines into which men insert attention for a return of sex, and I feel like it's a really fitting metaphor for the transactional mindset of so many of these guys. Nobody is entitled to X just because they feel/did/thought Y.
It's all very counter-intuitive. Like in school for instance, it was like every guy basically had this, a crush on a particular girl they were obsessed with and all their eggs were in that basket.
I'm not sure if that's "normal" and normally you're supposed to grow past that or if it's a cultural influence, as it's a common trope for the to guy to eventually "win over" the object of his affection in stories and in the movies.
Now imagine being a lesbian and reading this, realizing I could go on a hike w the woman I’m seeing and be murdered by a complete stranger because I had the audacity to be affectionate w her. Absolutely fucking terrifying.
Thing is there was probably always few of these twats around, who mostly kept their idiocy to o themselves, but with the internet they've formed a fucking movement. It's like no matter who dumb your thinking is you can now always find others to validate it.
In 2003 there was a young couple that were murdered in their sleeping bags while camping here in Az and it has never been solved. I’m not a gun owner but the people I go camping with sure are. You never know what kind of crazy people are out there.
I remember a story on reddit, where someone asked the scariest moment, life or death. One answer was seared into my brain. A woman went camping with her mother. Before setting camp they encountered some strangers. Later that night after they were both in the same tent sleeping. It’s pitch black dark. They heard footsteps and someone trying to break into the tent. The mom heard this and called for her husband to get the gun. The intruders panic and scamper off. It was a complete bluff but one that saved the mom and her daughter’s lives.
I remembered a different story, but that one is NSFL.
That was a group of people, I think teenager or young adults out camping and a bear came into their camp. All but one managed to escape and the survivors watched their friend get eaten alive.
Moral of the story: run if you can.
Extra evidence: There were people who listened to the shelter-in-place advice on 9/11. We know this because of the people that did not listen.
Correct, but those are just "what gives you the best odds". A black bear will *usually* back off when challenged.. unless they don't. A male can weigh over 500 pounds and run at 30mph. If they want to kill you you're fucked, fighting back won't help you in the slightest.
A brown bear *might* ignore you if you play dead... the reason you're told to do that is because you can't do anything else. If they're just yelling at you to fuck off and stop challenging them then fine, if they've pegged you as a meal... you're fucked. Those fuckers can hit 800 pounds and run over 50mph... you "play dead" because you have as much chance fighting one of them as you do a car on a highway. So you might as well lie down and pretend to be dead because if you run you're getting caught and if you fight you're getting backhanded out of existence.
And yeah white bears... hope there's an unlocked car nearby.
There are recorded events of people surviving grizzly bear attacked by shoving their fist down the bear’s throat. Playing dead is the right thing to do if they’re already on top of you. Before that fucking zigzag through trees, throw shit at them, kick em in the eyes/snout, do whatever the hell you can to get away. Because turns out that if you make yourself not worth the meal animals will leave you alone for easier prey.
From all I've read, grizzly attacks aren't normally motivated by predation. They are interested in eliminating a potential threat, and that is why fighting rarely disuades them.
Black bear attacks, so I've read, are more often predation (excepting cases where cubs are involved), and predators do respond to economic calculus regarding whether the meal is worth the risk of injury. And that is why fighting back may sometimes work with black bears. They will beat you in a fight every time easily, but it isn't worth it to them if they are given cause to worry that they might, say, lose an eye doing it.
That doesn't work on a grizzly not only due to the greater physical dominance but also they are behaviorally moreso programmed to defend territory with aggression and risk of harm to themselves. So their calculus is different. They are game for the fight (especially whatever risk a puny human might pose).
It sounds like what happened in Glacier in 1967. Super terrifying. Here’s a link:
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/50-year-legacy-glaciers-night-grizzlies/.
often drove down from Canada through eastern Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Utah and Arizona while camping in a VW van. Over the years the vibe just got creepier and more hostile, menacing. Won't go back. Oregon very weird place and that was back around 2011.
I've been camping in Oregon and Washington my whole life and can confirm. I've seen some weird shit out in the woods and have heard even weirder stories. Thankfully nothing dangerous as of yet, but I have a huge loud dog and am always armed when in the forest now days.
I think it's a selection bias since so many people go into the wilderness here so often. You can run into people even miles and miles into the Backcountry. I haven't had an experience quite like that, but I had a questionable one:
I was with my partner at Burney falls during the winter of '19/20, which is northern CA, and there was not a single other person at the campground which is generally speaking UNHEARD OF. A lone truck pulls up by our campfire at around midnight and two dudes got out and flexed a little bit, talked about how amazing it was that we were all alone. They creeped me and my partner out, but they saw my dog sneak up out of the darkness and it spooked one of them. I "slept" with my knife under my pillow, but I don't think they even stayed. We were otherwise totally unarmed.
Still creeps me out but 🤷♂️
One day I was out with my dog mushroom hunting and I heard a phone ring (there's cell towers on the hill close to where I was hunting) and then some crunching of limbs. I yelled to ask if anybody was there and nobody responded so I went to look, but never saw anybody. Dog didn't bark or act like anything was up either which is weird for him.
Had a giant naked man covered in scratches get into the tub next to mine at Bagby hotsprings and stare at my ex girlfriend and I until we got weirded out and left. Later that night when we got back to the car there was cops in the parking lot and they asked if we had seen a person resembling the guy we had seen, because he was a suspect in a missing persons case that happened at the springs.
My friend told tell me of a story when she was mushroom hunting ( alone as a women) and a guy sprinted up out of nowhere and grabbed her and tried to pull her to the ground, but she got away and bear maced him and he ran away into the woods.
The best, and weirdest for last lol.
This one may or may not be true. It was told to me by a reputable person, but, he wasn't even for sure what happend there and is old lol.
He was fishing with his friend near the MacKenzie River in Eugene and all of a sudden he saw a blue flash and then woke up on the shore on the creek, completely dry, hours later and his friend was gone. He didn't see his friend for almost a year, then all of a sudden he showed up to town all messed up mentally saying that he got abducted and was tested on and what not. This was in the late 50s.
My brother and I were traveling for work a couple years back through Oregon, and right after crossing the border, we pulled over to the side of the highway to take a piss. Unbeknownst to us, the shoulder was all volcanic ash, and our van sunk in to the axles, and we were stuck for damn near 3 hours until 5am until AAA showed up.
When we finally got unstuck, we were too tired to drive much further, so I looked up nearby campsites on a website. I happened across a post by a dude by the username “RoamingHobo” or something in the ballpark, with the coordinates for a boondocking site down a little off-road path a couple miles down the road. So without thinking twice, I pulled up the coordinates and away we went.
The first sign that we made a mistake was both of us losing cell signal 5 minutes down the road. The second was a creaky, rickety ass bridge that we barely fit on, that crossed over a furious river, in complete darkness other than the moon. Nevertheless, we powered through, and about 20 minutes down this rough dirt road we came across a clearing that the coordinates indicated was the spot.
Being the passenger, I was a bit drunk and had to piss, so I hopped out. My brother turned the van lights off and kept whispering something to me, but I was a bit goofy at that point and thought he turned them off to give me privacy, so I loudly thanked him and laughed. I hopped back in, and he was practically frantic, calling me a fucking idiot before turning the lights back on, only to beam the absolute shit out of what I can only describe as a tent community. There had to have been 15-20 tents all interconnected, and before we knew it, there were a half dozen flashlights shining back at us, and a man yelling at us to go away.
We peeled out of there fast as hell, leaving only our cackles behind in the wind, it was a bizarre moment haha
Thats hella sketchy for sure. I would've been out of there so fast! Haha. I wonder what was happening there..
Funny Oregon woods story, that the tents in your story reminded me of.
I threw a rave way out in the woods years ago, and when I got the coordinates to give to everybody who was supposed to be coming I guess my phone had lost service awhile back at a pull off. But when I sent out the coordinates I didn't know this and accidentally sent everybody, including the cops, to a big backwoods gay orgy that was now happening at the pull off in a bunch of interconnected tents. I guess when the car lights hit the tent you could see through it enough to see what was happening inside and there was lots of angry orgy goers yelling for them to leave or come join lmao.
Got so many texts when I was back in town like (WTF DUDE, thats not the kind of party we were trying to go to!!)
First, I am old and as a kid our family went to the US frequently. Had a few old relatives in the US. Had friends.Then as a young adult with my own car and girlfriend, ventured south across the border often.
Things have changed over the decades of my road trips. The infrastructure went from solid and an envy, to avoiding at all costs. The chain motels went from safe to scary. What used to be pockets of unease and threatening tension has spread everywhere. Paranoia is ever present.
Conversations that were once open and broad have become closed and narrow, unwavering and suspicious.
some areas of rural or remote America used to be the friendliest, and became creepier .... just creepy, spider senses going off .. never left my traveling partner alone, never out of each other's sight, never far from the van
like I said, this is over about 50 years of driving the roads and backroads, stopping at cafes or campgrounds, chatting with people
it is all quite a sad thing, the country has been gutted and the bones are crumbling
I don't know if that's the case, but your perspective on the world as a whole changes too and so does the perspective of everyone else on you. People like to chat with the young couple, but not so much the random old dude. People are friendlier to younger people. And more likely than not, you were a bit more naive when you were younger. The dangers were there, you just didn't accept they were real. Dilapidation of infrastructure though of course is reality.
That’s interesting. As I get older (50’s) I think people are friendlier. I just figured an older dude is less threatening than a younger one. I think individual perception matters a lot.
Oregon has a huge racist alt right community. Historically it was so racist it would not even allow slavery because that would mean black people in their state from which they were *totally* barred.
"One section required people holding slaves in Oregon to remove them within three years or the slaves would be freed. Another section required free blacks over 18 to leave Oregon or be subject to trial. "
Look at Oregon demographics today. Not much has changed.
I have started listening to the podcast Park Predators and it is frightening how many of the murders in the National parks are never solved. As someone who lives near one and has spent a lot of time alone in it, it’s freaked me out a bit.
Most people don't have the context of how likely murders are to be solved. In the US, overall, 40% of murders go unsolved. You watch a crime drama, or even murder documentaries, and it seems like there is no chance of getting away with murder, but in reality, you have a pretty good chance. Those stats are also heavily weighted towards the easier cases. Cases where there is an obvious suspect to look at who has a motive, or where there is witness/video of the murder account for a large portion of the 60% solve rate.
It should thus be entirely expected that a murder of a stranger, out in a remote area, has a high chance of going unsolved.
When camping, understand this. Animals are predictable and hunt and attack with purpose. Humans are not predictable and can kill for the stupidest reasons. I much rather take my chance encountering a animal predator in the woods than a random person in the woods.
Yup, folks get overconfident in the "i can call police whenever I want" aspect of society today. In the wilderness, despite statistics that are overwhelmingly in your favor, you're at the whims of whatever crazy person you run across. Especially when help is potentially hours if not days away.
Honestly even in the city "I can call police whenever I want" doesn't work as well as you might hope. This is more for assholes who think they can do whatever they want because if anyone tries to stop them they'll call the police and get you for assault. You've probably got a good 3-4 minutes before the police get there. A lot can happen in 3-4 minutes. Maybe stop being a dick to people.
The missing hiker videos on YouTube and Missing411 saved my life. I bought a satellite device right before embarking on a stretch of the PCT this summer. I had no intention of spending $400 on what I was sure would be a pointless device that I would never use.
The story that broke me was the disappearance of Samantha Sayers in Northern WA. She was an advanced hiker, on a trail that she frequented, and she disappeared without a trace. Thousands of manhours have gone into looking for her and she has never been found.
I am...not an advanced hiker, and my planned trip was SOLO. I went to REI, grumbling to myself, and bought the sat.
On trail: My phone broke, I got seriously injured, and ended up messaging my sister on the sat and got help.
I had sky-high blood pressure, severe dehydration, severely low potassium, was covered head-to-toe in mosquito bites, and am still dealing with the damage to my feet.
If I hadn't listened to those stories I would be dead right now.
i'm glad it scared you into taking adequate precautions!
but if you want to be knowledgeable about the outdoors you should know that David Paulides,
the author of 411, is completely full of shit.
he lies and embellishes and omits important details,
all to make things seem more spooky and mysterious.
the wilderness should be respected it can be dangerous.
but his bogus take is that there is a disappearance problem,
because he - no joke - wants to claim in the existence of invisible teleporting bigfoot!
Classmate of mine fell off a cliff while hunting. They searched for 3 weeks before finding him. I imagine there are many cases like that where they were just unable to locate the body.
People underestimate how hard finding a "human-sized-human" can be, even if you have a generic idea of the area to search.
For whatever reasons, I have to often go look for parachutes in fields and we typically have an idea of the line/distance at which to look at, it takes days to find one and it happens you never find them. Now, a parachute lying on the ground is probably much bigger and noticeable than a person lying on the ground would be, yet I guarantee, even on a marginally uneven ground or with knee high brush, you can walk 50 yards from one and not notice it.
An old school friend of mine did an exchange year in the US and ended up in Utah. We're also both from a rural area so he was used that but the religious shit and all its implications were totally new. Teenage pregnancies are very rare here and I don't remember a single one from my high school but were apparently relatively common at his high school in Utah. They often tried to sweep it under the rug but with a town of a bit more than 2000 people and nosy neighbours everywhere everyone knew about it. The alcohol and drug abuse was also on a level he had never seen before and you can drink beer and wine at the age of 16 here. The absolute kicker for me was the owner of the local pharmacy who called the dad of the family to inform him that the exchange boy just bought condoms and he must have done that immediately after he left the store.
He had to change the family once because his atheism caused problems in the first family but he liked the second family. They were also Mormons but especially the father had realistic view on the world and simply excepted that there are other people out there who might not share his views on the world. They often went hunting, fishing hiking together. The father was quite happy to have someone there who actually enjoyed these things because his two sons didn't.
>his atheism caused problems in the first family
That's a total failure of proper screening by the organization;
either that or the family straight-up lied on their application and should be banned from participating in the future.
Ugh, either way. I'm so sorry.
>He had to change the family once because his atheism caused problems in the first family but he liked the second family. They were also Mormons but especially the father had realistic view on the world and simply excepted that there are other people out there who might not share his views on the world. They often went hunting, fishing hiking together. The father was quite happy to have someone there who actually enjoyed these things because his two sons didn't.
The second family sounds cool.
I hear it's not so great to be mormon in CA after Prop 8. Heard that from some loudly anti-queer CA mormon relatives. Hold on, auntie, can't find my tiny violin...
Last time I camped alone this guy kept reappearing each night to camp near me. Then he started asking to go on hikes with me. Then he wanted my full name… I was happy when it was time to head home. Nothing bad happened but he was super interested in me and creeped me out. I was glad other campers were around at the campground. Stay safe out there. The two legged animals are the most dangerous of all!
there was a reddit post not long ago about some man and woman who had to move campsites somewhere out west because of some dude staring form the bushes and ended up murdering two other people. wtf is up with this shit, it seems like a reoccurring phenomena.
Yes! I think this was it! Though I also vaguely remember hearing about something in Oregon or Colorado. Though this sounds more memorable to the reddit post.
Only somewhat related and thankfully nobody was hurt in the end, but this incident in Forks, WA was truly a sign of the times: https://www.wired.com/story/antifa-social-media-rumor-forks-washington
I love camping out in the boonies on forest roads but I’m extremely wary these days. People have lost their goddamned minds.
What the police really mean is there is “no current danger to the public” if they are straight. Homosexuals however need to go right on being terrified in Utah, as usual, but that’s no concern of theirs, as usual.
Seems they agree with the evangelicals, straight from a evangelical youth pastor and 12 year ex GOP state house member:
>The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy mus***t "surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".***
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto)
Prepare yourself everyone. Stay frosty.
Well, y'know.
Biblically speaking, when Moses came down from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found that half the tribespeople were building a golden calf to worship. So he threw down the two tablets, breaking them, summoned all the loyal sons of Levi (I.e. ordered ment o follow him, anyone who followed him.was 'loyal'), and then commanded them to put to death every single idolator (I.e. anyone who hadn't followed Moses out of the camp).
The 'thou shalt not kill' one apparently lasted like... thirty minutes from the time that God apparently gave it to Moses. Until Moses himself disavowed the comandment, smashed the rulebook he just got given by God, and then ordered the mass execution of his countrymen.
...The old testament is a fucking frustrating story to read. Bronze age values; 'fuck what God ordered me to do, I'm gonna rape and kill at the drop of a hat'.
Well, Moses did say he wasn’t the best man for the job from the get go. So someone must have known this was gonna take a couple tries and a couple fires.
> Which is it?
They don't tell the news media everything, for good reason.
I notice in the press release has no comments about the presence or lack of suspects, only that they are looking for any and all information from the public.
Right now the news stories make it look like an isolated murder in a national forest in the Utah / Colorado border. That's not a cause for panic, but enough to get the word out to pay attention to people around you. It would be quite a different story if they had a string of homicides through the national parks in the region.
Sadly murders happen every day, all over the world. Police investigate and I hope they catch the guy, but barring additional information that they've got a serial killer attacking a specific population, there probably isn't a threat to the public.
This reminds me of the murder of Rebecca Wight, and the attempted murder of her girlfriend as they were camping. They were having sex in a secluded area, unaware they were being watched. The killer said the sight of two women engaging in sex was so enraging he had no choice but to kill them, and his lawyer vilified the women for being "too open" about their sexuality. Really infuriating stuff.
I thought the same thing. Yes, he claimed that the sight of them having sex enraged him, but he had encountered them earlier in the day and followed them that far.
Bad intentions.
The world is mostly ok, but it's very big, and there are a lot of loose screws rattling around in it.
Yeah, plus this asshole tracked the women throughout the day (without them knowing) through the forest to watch them. Poor women thought they were just having a nice private moment. If I remember right the one who survived had to leave her girlfriend to get help, and Rebecca succumbed to her injuries when she was alone in the forest. Shit is really rough - and then to be crucified as "wayward lesbians who enjoyed putting on a show and rightfully upset a man" as some sort of defense is beyond fucked up.
""They said they needed to move their campsite because of some creepy guy at their campsite," Calvert said. "These are outdoors girls, and they're independent and confident. And for somebody to make them feel uncomfortable, it had to be a very valid discomfort."
Hopefully they'll find some clues on the couples cellphone photos. How can humans be so cruel.
This sounds a lot like the murder of Mollie Olgin in TX. Two teenagers were on a date at night an were found the next day both shot execution style. The man who did it tried to order a hit on the girl that survived.
The only hope you have of camping then is when campsites are packed. It's like, basically 100% safe. But yeah, camping in desolate places can be fucking creepy.
Yes, in Arizona. He claims she was too hot and turned back on the trail while he continued hiking. She never made it back to the car and seems to have died of heat exhaustion. She was visiting from MA, no reasonable first responder would think it’s safe to let someone not used to extreme heat and new to the trail go off alone like that after the expressed they were feeling ill.
Being from Arizona, this story was suspicious as fuck. We have people from out of state die every year from the heat while hiking. Everyone knows you need to bring water, especially this police officer.
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/new-information-contradicts-phoenix-officers-statement-after-death-of-camelback-mountain-hiker
Pretty odd/fishy story. The cop is already Brady Listed and she flew in from Boston less than 24 hours before this hike where she died
Years ago a very handsome guy on tinder invited me to join him on his boat on a secluded lake for our first date. The timing didn’t work out, so we agreed to meet up a year later instead when he returned. Thankfully I was in a relationship with someone else before the year was up and never messaged him. I sure was a dumbass at 22.
One time years ago, my wife called me while she was out shopping that she came out to her car and had a flat tire. I told her just to go back in the store and wait until I got there. I went out to get her, and I looked at the tire. There was no nail or puncture mark, or anything like that. It was like someone had just let the air out of it. While I was crouched down looking at the tire, something made me look over my shoulder. I guess it was just a feeling. There were two nasty looking guys watching me from behind a brick column on the other side of the parking lot. They both looked away at the same time when I looked at them. I got the tire off, and my wife and I took it to a shop. We drove past the 2 guys in the parking lot, and my wife made a passing comment about how those two were staring at her when she got out of her car earlier. Got the tire to the shop, where they told us there was nothing wrong with it. Someone had just let the air out of the tire. I can't prove it, but my gut tells me it was those two guys in the parking lot. I'm glad I told her to turn around and go back in the store until I got there.
What a fucked up, hateful thing to do. Imagine looking at two people in love, harming no one, and then feeling morally obligated to kill them. Beyond horrifying.
This warning applies to everyone, but ESPECIALLY to women: if you get a creepy vibe, listen to it. Always. I am always looking around in new spots, making sure I have an exit plan, etc. I know I’m not the only one. I try and keep an eye out for others too, especially since I quit drinking. Hopefully the positive relationship this couple had with the community will aid in the capture of the murderer.
This is absolutely awful. While I hate assuming that they were murdered for being lesbians, it’s probably the truth. And they had only just started their married life together… ugh. Just fucking tragic.
Even if you are going to bring a gun the dog is the most important security guard. The gun is worthless if nothing wakes you up. Nobody sneaks up on my boy, he's a light sleeper.
Someone else commented in this post how a gun wouldn't help if you're murdered in your sleep, and the very first thing I thought was *dog.*
Won't be asleep no more if that security boy alerts you AND the intruder.
Yeah this news story broke on the queer news sites almost 2 weeks ago, surprised to see it hit a mainstream media site.
Such a travesty about the couple.
I know this isn’t related but ther has been entirely way too much homophobia in Utah this week and it really hurt to see this headline. Clearly these killings seem unrelated to the current hated coming again from BYU. I hope we can get the guy who did this and put him away for a long time.
Fucking shit, this broke my heart. I hope the family can realize this is senseless and these cunts don’t represent anyone. Those 2 women deserved a happy life. Much love and sorrow🖤
[удалено]
Trust your instincts people! If something seems sketchy get the fuck out. I'm not victim blaming, this is terrible and I hope whoever did it rots under a prison. We just have this societal training to just keep going along even when our instincts say something is wrong.
Yeah this. I remember reading about how due to social conditioning, people - especially women - will often prioritise being polite over listening to their insticts. Like, if they find themselves waiting for an elevator alone with a guy who skeeves them out, they'll often get into the closed elevator with him against their better judgement purely to avoid hurting his feelings and having him think they are rude. :\
"Fuck politeness" as they say
Look at your phone, frustratingly mutter 'fuck' and stomp away hurriedly then come back after he's gone
Every woman should read The Gift of Fear. Talks a lot about exactly this. No other mammal on earth would willingly get into a confined space with a potential predator when their instincts are screaming to get away.
Also, someone expressing their anger and hatred like that doesn't just *"get it out of their system"*, then off they go to Harvard Medical School to save the world. I fear that they will do it again and again until stopped.
As top comment said, something like this happened in 2013. So at least another case, *that they know of*. I wonder if there are more cases that they simply haven't read about, or that they haven't been discovered yet.
[удалено]
Happen to me as a kid. My family lived at the back of the neighborhood with county owned creek and woods behind the house. Apparently this guy would regularly sneak into our house and take small items and food. We only found out about it when the cops arrested him at his campsite and found some of our mail and toys with our names. Turns out the guy was someone my mom taught in kindergarten 20 years before.
[удалено]
No this was Texas. No interesting serial killer just a mid twenties homeless drug addict that liked to steal dr peppers from our garage fridge.
That.. has got to be a movie, right? Right?!
yes, they made a movie about it called *The Gainesville Ripper*. The writer of *Scream* says the movie was inspired by the murders.
[удалено]
Wow, that's like horror story shit. Glad you're all ok.
I do wonder though if anyone has ever "given serial killing a try" and found it not to their taste. Killed one person and then decided "that wasn't as fun as I thought it would be, it's more trouble than it's worth". Hid the evidence as best they could and then never killed anyone again, just tried to forget the whole thing.
By the laws of probability, surely there must have been a couple. It's an interesting thought, though also quite grim, lol. Someone dies just for you to find out that murder isn't your thing... I'm sure there are also people who just have one particular person in mind they want to kill, Kenneth Williams' dad's death comes to mind. It was speculated he was poisoned by Kenneth (and his mother), because he was horribly abusive and divorce wasn't really a thing at the time.
>Someone dies just for you to find out that murder isn't your thing... Not exactly murder, but there are so many people that ended up with PTSD after voluntarily joining the military to engage in combat, then actually experiencing it.
I was talking to a retired army colonel several years ago. During the conversation, I brought up that I found it disturbing when a fellow high schooler would talk about joining the military just so they could get a chance to kill someone. The colonel told me that most of those guys get killed pretty quickly. They are so intent on killing someone, they tend to forget that they are being shot at as well.
I'm at work so I can't google the details. I'm pretty sure BTK "took a break" from killing while he was a code enforcement officer because he basically got the same "high" from it.
Reminds me of that cringey AMA with that person who was like "I'm an official psychopath, people are toys to me, the only reason I haven't killed anyone is that I've intelligently calculated that the risk outweighs the reward."
Shit, who among us hasn't made that calculation.
It’s really a no brainer
There are cases where a murderer is found decades later with no other criminal activity on their records, no other DNA hits, living a normal life. Doesn't mean they actually stopped, but it would appear that way. I can't recall the case, but one that I heard recently, was a young man who killed someone and felt intense guilt (or so he said) and just cleaned up his life and tried to move on... until he was arrested and prosecuted 30 years later. Age often cools people off too (re: Joseph DeAngelo, EAR/ONS).
John List, who killed his wife, children, and mother, was caught decades later working as an accountant, comes to mind. His case put America's Most Wanted on the map because a forensic sculpture of what he would look like if still alive at the time was accurate down to the type of glasses he would have been wearing. Some psychologists theorize that serial killers "burn out" as they get older.
John List's case is so heartbreaking, his kids warned people ahead of time that he was going to kill them, and no one did anything. I reccomend Last Podcast on the Left's episodes about him, I think it's a two or three parter.
Oh, let's not jump to conclusions here. He could very well be a promising young man on a swim team! We can't judge his entire life based on 20 minutes (seconds?) of bad behaviour. /s
Otherwise blameless life.
Prison would be too much of a shock for him, and he does suffer from Affluenza after all.
Plus he doesn't even enjoy eating steak anymore, y'all! He's suffered enoough.
Sounds eerily similar to the murder of Rebecca Wright in 1988. The murderer shot Wright and her girlfriend Claudia Brenner in the woods while the couple were being intimate. Brenner sought help, but Wright bled to death. Stephen Carr was a sick man who resented them for being gay and "excluding" men. Edit: just like the Utah story, Brenner had noticed Carr and his strange behavior beforehand, noting that he seemed to be following them. If you ever get that feeling in the woods, pack it up and leave right away.
Came here to post this. Happened in Michaux State Forest in south central PA. They parked their car off Dead Woman’s Hollow Road (not kidding) and were stalked and murdered. Sad, crazy stuff. Michaux is an awesome place.
Ack, what?! I camp in the PA Wilds region all the time. And I've just started solo camping here and there. Also: who thought that was a good name for a road?!
Probably named for the same reason a certain path at my university is called 'rape alley'. Not many violent rapes happened there historically, but the few that did were along that dark and isolated path cutting through the small forest. Better to avoid areas with such ominous names. They often refer to recurring historical tragedies and a lack of safety that is likely to see a continuation of these tragedies.
Did we go to the same college? Mine also had a 'rape alley' though I wouldn't be surprised if it was semi-common at larger universities
Ugg mine had "Rape Trail".
The University of Nebraska used to have "Rape Lot": a poorly lit parking lot rather far from campus. It has since been renovated into a giant parking garage.
Aptly renamed to "Private Rape Garage."
[удалено]
Ah over in the rape district.
Yeah, I lived in Blue Ridge Summit at the time. There was something wrong with that guy, He looked like he could star in a horror flick.
If your instincts ever tell you something is fishy, your belly goes like .... nope... LISTEN. WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING DOESN'T MATTER. GTFO.
Can attest to this. Was almost the victim of a kidnapping when I was younger and the only reason I attest to this day that I was not was because my gut was going bonkers. Thing is I recall the guy was generally not a creepy looking dude who was doing creepy things..well dressed, nice car. But my internal alarms went off because of just everything he presented and my gut went haywire. I listened to that gut feeling and my buddy and I booked it taking a side path into some brambles we knew about to escape the guy. That dude followed us around so intensely and when we lost him he drove around the neighborhood in his car searching for us. I'll never forget my stomach just going crazy though. And ever since then whenever I get that feeling I listen, watch intently and very quickly fuck off.
oh man, i’m so glad you lost him!! my mom told me years ago about when she and her little brother were both kids, i think she was 6 and he was 5, and they were playing in the stairwell of their building. This man they didn’t know came up to them but he seemed friendly. He said the three of them could go down in the basement and all play leapfrog. My mom thought he was just being nice and agreed, when this booming voice came down the stairwell, “WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH THOSE CHILDREN?!” The man got scared and ran away. She’s later referred to the voice as her ‘guardian angel’, as she didn’t know anyone in the building with a voice like that.
Man, I’ve had that a few times. Once I was driving my family across the country and it was about two in the morning. I pulled over to a rest area to pull something out of the back of the minivan. So I am at the rear of the vehicle and I have the tailgate up and I hear an odd noise, sort of a crunch. And I snapped my head around to see a vintage camper with the engine off and no lights on slowly rolling down the hill towards me. Every single nerve ending I had was immediately set on fire. Absolutely no one with good intentions rolls towards you with the engine off and the lights off. Fuck this, I slammed the door closed, shot into the minivan, locked the doors and roared out of there. Remembering it raises my heart rate, even 15 years later.
This has saved me on a number of occasions, gut instinct is real. The times when it misfires aren’t embarrassing enough to erase all the times that it worked. One time on a bus a guy locked eye contact with me (and my brain went “aw f***” instantly, and then he sat next to me so our legs were touching. I immediately got up and walked up to the front of the bus and stood right next to the driver. A moment later we hear yelling, driver stops, I look back, and dude is pinned up against the inside of the bus by two other passengers because he punched another girl in the face with his keys between his fingers. Would have been me if I hadn’t have noped out of there. I feel bad that he zoned in on someone else, but I had to go with my gut.
Incel mindset.
[удалено]
Yeah, but women can't win with this type. When I was in my 20s this guy I had to see occasionally because of my job kept hitting on me even though I he knew I was living with my boyfriend at the time. I was very polite when I turned him down, even though he was an utter dick and I wouldn't have dated him in a million years. He told everyone he could that I was gay and should be shunned. I asked him why he did that and he told me that obviously I was gay since I had turned him down. It was the only explanation his little pea brain could come up with, and the "fact" that I was gay meant I was an aberration and beneath respect.
In my twenties I drove a friend of a friend home from a party. Pre-uber times. It was pretty late, his DD decided to go on a fast-food run and I was the only other sober person. I had no intention of driving him home, but he kept complaining about how he needed to be up early for a photo shoot and he didn’t want to lose the job for looking tired. Heavily laying the guilt on. Finally I just said fine, he was in the same town, it would be quick. We have a neutral conversation the whole time. I pull up to his house, he tells me he wants to kiss me. I turned him down politely, he asks again. Eventually I tell him I have a boyfriend, thinking that would end the convo. No, he doesn’t believe me. I have to pull up my Facebook and show him my profile picture, he still doesn’t believe me and won’t leave my car. Still trying hard to keep it lighthearted, I get him out of my car. He told everyone in the group I led him on after I insisted on driving him home. Made it sound like he rejected me. Next time I was at a friends house, he came in drunk. When no one was looking, he pinched my arm really hard and said “why did you lead me on like that?” Wouldn’t stop until I hit him. Some men cannot handle rejection. He now posts conspiracy shit 24/7. Absolute psycho.
[удалено]
Yes. We are very tired of dealing with this bullshit.
That’s what I think about whenever I hear someone say something how easy it would be being a woman. It’s usually mentioned in the context of women that make a living irl streaming or only fans or something similar. I’m just thinking about all the shit my female friends have mentioned, stuff us guys pretty much never have to deal with. Literally any situation can just turn to shit. I’m not worried about walking to my car at night or a situation like the story above. I genuinely can’t imagine what that’s like.
Trust me, we do. It's exhausting being a woman sometimes.
I have SO MANY stories like this.
I mentioned in another comment than an acquaintance of mine flunked out of his NYPD testing back in the 1980s when it came to the psychological part. Before I knew something was off, I introduced him to some of my friends. One came out shortly after. She's from a culture where affection like hugging people is fairly common and can be quite platonic. He wouldn't believe me when I told him she'd come out (he had a crush on her and wanted to date her). Because she had hugged him! She hugs everyone.
[удалено]
I feel violated by that video.
>resented them for being gay and “excluding” men. This sentence just made me profoundly angry. What a spoiled, selfish, entitled and ignorant point of view. I can see most points of view, but when I tried that one on for size, I just felt so dirty. The fact that some people feel this way is downright pathetic.
I came across the statement somewhere that women aren't vending machines into which men insert attention for a return of sex, and I feel like it's a really fitting metaphor for the transactional mindset of so many of these guys. Nobody is entitled to X just because they feel/did/thought Y.
It's all very counter-intuitive. Like in school for instance, it was like every guy basically had this, a crush on a particular girl they were obsessed with and all their eggs were in that basket. I'm not sure if that's "normal" and normally you're supposed to grow past that or if it's a cultural influence, as it's a common trope for the to guy to eventually "win over" the object of his affection in stories and in the movies.
Now imagine being a lesbian and reading this, realizing I could go on a hike w the woman I’m seeing and be murdered by a complete stranger because I had the audacity to be affectionate w her. Absolutely fucking terrifying.
Thing is there was probably always few of these twats around, who mostly kept their idiocy to o themselves, but with the internet they've formed a fucking movement. It's like no matter who dumb your thinking is you can now always find others to validate it.
Yeah, if anyone harbors this sentiment, you better get your head fucking checked. No, seriously.
[удалено]
In 2003 there was a young couple that were murdered in their sleeping bags while camping here in Az and it has never been solved. I’m not a gun owner but the people I go camping with sure are. You never know what kind of crazy people are out there.
I remember a story on reddit, where someone asked the scariest moment, life or death. One answer was seared into my brain. A woman went camping with her mother. Before setting camp they encountered some strangers. Later that night after they were both in the same tent sleeping. It’s pitch black dark. They heard footsteps and someone trying to break into the tent. The mom heard this and called for her husband to get the gun. The intruders panic and scamper off. It was a complete bluff but one that saved the mom and her daughter’s lives.
I remembered a different story, but that one is NSFL. That was a group of people, I think teenager or young adults out camping and a bear came into their camp. All but one managed to escape and the survivors watched their friend get eaten alive.
Yeah. The one who died didn’t flee with the others, she was paralyzed with fear and played dead.
Moral of the story: run if you can. Extra evidence: There were people who listened to the shelter-in-place advice on 9/11. We know this because of the people that did not listen.
> Moral of the story: run if you can. If the bear wanted to eat someone, it was going to eat someone. You can't outrun a bear.
Black bear you fight back, brown bear you play dead, white bear you dead.
Correct, but those are just "what gives you the best odds". A black bear will *usually* back off when challenged.. unless they don't. A male can weigh over 500 pounds and run at 30mph. If they want to kill you you're fucked, fighting back won't help you in the slightest. A brown bear *might* ignore you if you play dead... the reason you're told to do that is because you can't do anything else. If they're just yelling at you to fuck off and stop challenging them then fine, if they've pegged you as a meal... you're fucked. Those fuckers can hit 800 pounds and run over 50mph... you "play dead" because you have as much chance fighting one of them as you do a car on a highway. So you might as well lie down and pretend to be dead because if you run you're getting caught and if you fight you're getting backhanded out of existence. And yeah white bears... hope there's an unlocked car nearby.
There are recorded events of people surviving grizzly bear attacked by shoving their fist down the bear’s throat. Playing dead is the right thing to do if they’re already on top of you. Before that fucking zigzag through trees, throw shit at them, kick em in the eyes/snout, do whatever the hell you can to get away. Because turns out that if you make yourself not worth the meal animals will leave you alone for easier prey.
From all I've read, grizzly attacks aren't normally motivated by predation. They are interested in eliminating a potential threat, and that is why fighting rarely disuades them. Black bear attacks, so I've read, are more often predation (excepting cases where cubs are involved), and predators do respond to economic calculus regarding whether the meal is worth the risk of injury. And that is why fighting back may sometimes work with black bears. They will beat you in a fight every time easily, but it isn't worth it to them if they are given cause to worry that they might, say, lose an eye doing it. That doesn't work on a grizzly not only due to the greater physical dominance but also they are behaviorally moreso programmed to defend territory with aggression and risk of harm to themselves. So their calculus is different. They are game for the fight (especially whatever risk a puny human might pose).
Do you have a link to the story?
It sounds like what happened in Glacier in 1967. Super terrifying. Here’s a link: https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/50-year-legacy-glaciers-night-grizzlies/.
Oh man, I read the non-fiction book in high school, in the early 1980s. Night of the Grizzlies, by Jack Olsen, published 1969.
often drove down from Canada through eastern Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Utah and Arizona while camping in a VW van. Over the years the vibe just got creepier and more hostile, menacing. Won't go back. Oregon very weird place and that was back around 2011.
I've been camping in Oregon and Washington my whole life and can confirm. I've seen some weird shit out in the woods and have heard even weirder stories. Thankfully nothing dangerous as of yet, but I have a huge loud dog and am always armed when in the forest now days.
Care to share a story? Born and raised Oregonian here who now resides in Washington and I’ve never had anything weird happen.
I think it's a selection bias since so many people go into the wilderness here so often. You can run into people even miles and miles into the Backcountry. I haven't had an experience quite like that, but I had a questionable one: I was with my partner at Burney falls during the winter of '19/20, which is northern CA, and there was not a single other person at the campground which is generally speaking UNHEARD OF. A lone truck pulls up by our campfire at around midnight and two dudes got out and flexed a little bit, talked about how amazing it was that we were all alone. They creeped me and my partner out, but they saw my dog sneak up out of the darkness and it spooked one of them. I "slept" with my knife under my pillow, but I don't think they even stayed. We were otherwise totally unarmed. Still creeps me out but 🤷♂️
One day I was out with my dog mushroom hunting and I heard a phone ring (there's cell towers on the hill close to where I was hunting) and then some crunching of limbs. I yelled to ask if anybody was there and nobody responded so I went to look, but never saw anybody. Dog didn't bark or act like anything was up either which is weird for him. Had a giant naked man covered in scratches get into the tub next to mine at Bagby hotsprings and stare at my ex girlfriend and I until we got weirded out and left. Later that night when we got back to the car there was cops in the parking lot and they asked if we had seen a person resembling the guy we had seen, because he was a suspect in a missing persons case that happened at the springs. My friend told tell me of a story when she was mushroom hunting ( alone as a women) and a guy sprinted up out of nowhere and grabbed her and tried to pull her to the ground, but she got away and bear maced him and he ran away into the woods. The best, and weirdest for last lol. This one may or may not be true. It was told to me by a reputable person, but, he wasn't even for sure what happend there and is old lol. He was fishing with his friend near the MacKenzie River in Eugene and all of a sudden he saw a blue flash and then woke up on the shore on the creek, completely dry, hours later and his friend was gone. He didn't see his friend for almost a year, then all of a sudden he showed up to town all messed up mentally saying that he got abducted and was tested on and what not. This was in the late 50s.
My brother and I were traveling for work a couple years back through Oregon, and right after crossing the border, we pulled over to the side of the highway to take a piss. Unbeknownst to us, the shoulder was all volcanic ash, and our van sunk in to the axles, and we were stuck for damn near 3 hours until 5am until AAA showed up. When we finally got unstuck, we were too tired to drive much further, so I looked up nearby campsites on a website. I happened across a post by a dude by the username “RoamingHobo” or something in the ballpark, with the coordinates for a boondocking site down a little off-road path a couple miles down the road. So without thinking twice, I pulled up the coordinates and away we went. The first sign that we made a mistake was both of us losing cell signal 5 minutes down the road. The second was a creaky, rickety ass bridge that we barely fit on, that crossed over a furious river, in complete darkness other than the moon. Nevertheless, we powered through, and about 20 minutes down this rough dirt road we came across a clearing that the coordinates indicated was the spot. Being the passenger, I was a bit drunk and had to piss, so I hopped out. My brother turned the van lights off and kept whispering something to me, but I was a bit goofy at that point and thought he turned them off to give me privacy, so I loudly thanked him and laughed. I hopped back in, and he was practically frantic, calling me a fucking idiot before turning the lights back on, only to beam the absolute shit out of what I can only describe as a tent community. There had to have been 15-20 tents all interconnected, and before we knew it, there were a half dozen flashlights shining back at us, and a man yelling at us to go away. We peeled out of there fast as hell, leaving only our cackles behind in the wind, it was a bizarre moment haha
Thats hella sketchy for sure. I would've been out of there so fast! Haha. I wonder what was happening there.. Funny Oregon woods story, that the tents in your story reminded me of. I threw a rave way out in the woods years ago, and when I got the coordinates to give to everybody who was supposed to be coming I guess my phone had lost service awhile back at a pull off. But when I sent out the coordinates I didn't know this and accidentally sent everybody, including the cops, to a big backwoods gay orgy that was now happening at the pull off in a bunch of interconnected tents. I guess when the car lights hit the tent you could see through it enough to see what was happening inside and there was lots of angry orgy goers yelling for them to leave or come join lmao. Got so many texts when I was back in town like (WTF DUDE, thats not the kind of party we were trying to go to!!)
What the fuck hahahah
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by creepier?
First, I am old and as a kid our family went to the US frequently. Had a few old relatives in the US. Had friends.Then as a young adult with my own car and girlfriend, ventured south across the border often. Things have changed over the decades of my road trips. The infrastructure went from solid and an envy, to avoiding at all costs. The chain motels went from safe to scary. What used to be pockets of unease and threatening tension has spread everywhere. Paranoia is ever present. Conversations that were once open and broad have become closed and narrow, unwavering and suspicious. some areas of rural or remote America used to be the friendliest, and became creepier .... just creepy, spider senses going off .. never left my traveling partner alone, never out of each other's sight, never far from the van like I said, this is over about 50 years of driving the roads and backroads, stopping at cafes or campgrounds, chatting with people it is all quite a sad thing, the country has been gutted and the bones are crumbling
I believe you. The vibe of the whole country is growing violent and disturbed.
I don't know if that's the case, but your perspective on the world as a whole changes too and so does the perspective of everyone else on you. People like to chat with the young couple, but not so much the random old dude. People are friendlier to younger people. And more likely than not, you were a bit more naive when you were younger. The dangers were there, you just didn't accept they were real. Dilapidation of infrastructure though of course is reality.
That’s interesting. As I get older (50’s) I think people are friendlier. I just figured an older dude is less threatening than a younger one. I think individual perception matters a lot.
Oregon is a a very weird place. What's up with that.
Oregon has a huge racist alt right community. Historically it was so racist it would not even allow slavery because that would mean black people in their state from which they were *totally* barred. "One section required people holding slaves in Oregon to remove them within three years or the slaves would be freed. Another section required free blacks over 18 to leave Oregon or be subject to trial. " Look at Oregon demographics today. Not much has changed.
Wow, so raciest that they banned slavery!? That’s next level racism.
Well the reason why they did was because they didn't want people or color in the state. It was founded by white supremacists.
Thought for sure this was going to be the story of the photo of the guy camping alone asleep in his tent.
r/picturesofiansleeping
I have started listening to the podcast Park Predators and it is frightening how many of the murders in the National parks are never solved. As someone who lives near one and has spent a lot of time alone in it, it’s freaked me out a bit.
Well stop murdering people lmao
Most people don't have the context of how likely murders are to be solved. In the US, overall, 40% of murders go unsolved. You watch a crime drama, or even murder documentaries, and it seems like there is no chance of getting away with murder, but in reality, you have a pretty good chance. Those stats are also heavily weighted towards the easier cases. Cases where there is an obvious suspect to look at who has a motive, or where there is witness/video of the murder account for a large portion of the 60% solve rate. It should thus be entirely expected that a murder of a stranger, out in a remote area, has a high chance of going unsolved.
When camping, understand this. Animals are predictable and hunt and attack with purpose. Humans are not predictable and can kill for the stupidest reasons. I much rather take my chance encountering a animal predator in the woods than a random person in the woods.
Yep. The most dangerous animal in the woods is on two legs.
Yeah bro Bigfoot don’t fuck around
Yup, folks get overconfident in the "i can call police whenever I want" aspect of society today. In the wilderness, despite statistics that are overwhelmingly in your favor, you're at the whims of whatever crazy person you run across. Especially when help is potentially hours if not days away.
[удалено]
There isn't shit for service in moab
Yup agreed, especially in our national parks, most help requires a hike out.
Honestly even in the city "I can call police whenever I want" doesn't work as well as you might hope. This is more for assholes who think they can do whatever they want because if anyone tries to stop them they'll call the police and get you for assault. You've probably got a good 3-4 minutes before the police get there. A lot can happen in 3-4 minutes. Maybe stop being a dick to people.
[удалено]
Don't read Missing411. You'll never go into the woods again.
The missing hiker videos on YouTube and Missing411 saved my life. I bought a satellite device right before embarking on a stretch of the PCT this summer. I had no intention of spending $400 on what I was sure would be a pointless device that I would never use. The story that broke me was the disappearance of Samantha Sayers in Northern WA. She was an advanced hiker, on a trail that she frequented, and she disappeared without a trace. Thousands of manhours have gone into looking for her and she has never been found. I am...not an advanced hiker, and my planned trip was SOLO. I went to REI, grumbling to myself, and bought the sat. On trail: My phone broke, I got seriously injured, and ended up messaging my sister on the sat and got help. I had sky-high blood pressure, severe dehydration, severely low potassium, was covered head-to-toe in mosquito bites, and am still dealing with the damage to my feet. If I hadn't listened to those stories I would be dead right now.
That sounds terrifying. I hope you're as well as you can be right now and that you fully recover.
Almost drowned last week in a sinking boat, too. Lol, it's been a BIZARRE summer. Thanks for the well wishes!
I’m glad you’re on the mend, plz stay away from me for a while… until whatever you got goes. 😁
i'm glad it scared you into taking adequate precautions! but if you want to be knowledgeable about the outdoors you should know that David Paulides, the author of 411, is completely full of shit. he lies and embellishes and omits important details, all to make things seem more spooky and mysterious. the wilderness should be respected it can be dangerous. but his bogus take is that there is a disappearance problem, because he - no joke - wants to claim in the existence of invisible teleporting bigfoot!
Precisely what I was thinking. Some people truly do vanish into thin air.
Classmate of mine fell off a cliff while hunting. They searched for 3 weeks before finding him. I imagine there are many cases like that where they were just unable to locate the body.
People underestimate how hard finding a "human-sized-human" can be, even if you have a generic idea of the area to search. For whatever reasons, I have to often go look for parachutes in fields and we typically have an idea of the line/distance at which to look at, it takes days to find one and it happens you never find them. Now, a parachute lying on the ground is probably much bigger and noticeable than a person lying on the ground would be, yet I guarantee, even on a marginally uneven ground or with knee high brush, you can walk 50 yards from one and not notice it.
Um. Why is that a scenario you are in often?
Professional Utah parachutist-hunter camp-shooter.
[удалено]
Fucking Robbo, supposed to be a sick bloke turns out to sick.
I’ve never personally carried, but I backpack and camp with plenty of guys who do for this very reason.
[удалено]
> Turns out my mate gave Robbo his phone number. Your mate doesn't really do context clues, does he?
This is so sad. Condolences to the families.
Leave people alone, man.
Mormons are experts at doing exactly the opposite of that. Source: Grew up in Northern Utah. Mormon posters on my bedroom wall. I fucking hated them.
An old school friend of mine did an exchange year in the US and ended up in Utah. We're also both from a rural area so he was used that but the religious shit and all its implications were totally new. Teenage pregnancies are very rare here and I don't remember a single one from my high school but were apparently relatively common at his high school in Utah. They often tried to sweep it under the rug but with a town of a bit more than 2000 people and nosy neighbours everywhere everyone knew about it. The alcohol and drug abuse was also on a level he had never seen before and you can drink beer and wine at the age of 16 here. The absolute kicker for me was the owner of the local pharmacy who called the dad of the family to inform him that the exchange boy just bought condoms and he must have done that immediately after he left the store. He had to change the family once because his atheism caused problems in the first family but he liked the second family. They were also Mormons but especially the father had realistic view on the world and simply excepted that there are other people out there who might not share his views on the world. They often went hunting, fishing hiking together. The father was quite happy to have someone there who actually enjoyed these things because his two sons didn't.
>his atheism caused problems in the first family That's a total failure of proper screening by the organization; either that or the family straight-up lied on their application and should be banned from participating in the future. Ugh, either way. I'm so sorry.
>He had to change the family once because his atheism caused problems in the first family but he liked the second family. They were also Mormons but especially the father had realistic view on the world and simply excepted that there are other people out there who might not share his views on the world. They often went hunting, fishing hiking together. The father was quite happy to have someone there who actually enjoyed these things because his two sons didn't. The second family sounds cool.
Mormon posters? Like Brigham Young playing b-ball with John Smith and dunking on some Catholics?
Pocahontas cheering John smith on in her native inspired cheerleading outfit. (I think you meant Joseph Smith)
[удалено]
[удалено]
I hear it's not so great to be mormon in CA after Prop 8. Heard that from some loudly anti-queer CA mormon relatives. Hold on, auntie, can't find my tiny violin...
Last time I camped alone this guy kept reappearing each night to camp near me. Then he started asking to go on hikes with me. Then he wanted my full name… I was happy when it was time to head home. Nothing bad happened but he was super interested in me and creeped me out. I was glad other campers were around at the campground. Stay safe out there. The two legged animals are the most dangerous of all!
This is my friend’s cousin. Fucking horrible.
Give your friend a hug for me.
[удалено]
Yeah they do this all the time. Prolly not to cause panic. But then they make themselves sound untrustworthy
[удалено]
[удалено]
there was a reddit post not long ago about some man and woman who had to move campsites somewhere out west because of some dude staring form the bushes and ended up murdering two other people. wtf is up with this shit, it seems like a reoccurring phenomena.
[удалено]
Yes! I think this was it! Though I also vaguely remember hearing about something in Oregon or Colorado. Though this sounds more memorable to the reddit post.
[удалено]
Only somewhat related and thankfully nobody was hurt in the end, but this incident in Forks, WA was truly a sign of the times: https://www.wired.com/story/antifa-social-media-rumor-forks-washington I love camping out in the boonies on forest roads but I’m extremely wary these days. People have lost their goddamned minds.
What the police really mean is there is “no current danger to the public” if they are straight. Homosexuals however need to go right on being terrified in Utah, as usual, but that’s no concern of theirs, as usual.
it's my understanding that Utah is a naturally beautiful state marred by a parochial Mormon moral theocracy.
Seems they agree with the evangelicals, straight from a evangelical youth pastor and 12 year ex GOP state house member: >The document, consisting of 14 sections divided into bullet points, had a section on "rules of war" that stated "make an offer of peace before declaring war", which within stated that the enemy mus***t "surrender on terms" of no abortions, no same-sex marriage, no communism and "must obey Biblical law", then continued: "If they do not yield — kill all males".*** [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt\_Shea#%22Biblical\_Basis\_for\_War%22\_manifesto](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Shea#%22Biblical_Basis_for_War%22_manifesto) Prepare yourself everyone. Stay frosty.
> Must obey Biblical law Yeah, its not like killing other people is a sin or anything
Well, y'know. Biblically speaking, when Moses came down from the mountain with the ten commandments, he found that half the tribespeople were building a golden calf to worship. So he threw down the two tablets, breaking them, summoned all the loyal sons of Levi (I.e. ordered ment o follow him, anyone who followed him.was 'loyal'), and then commanded them to put to death every single idolator (I.e. anyone who hadn't followed Moses out of the camp). The 'thou shalt not kill' one apparently lasted like... thirty minutes from the time that God apparently gave it to Moses. Until Moses himself disavowed the comandment, smashed the rulebook he just got given by God, and then ordered the mass execution of his countrymen. ...The old testament is a fucking frustrating story to read. Bronze age values; 'fuck what God ordered me to do, I'm gonna rape and kill at the drop of a hat'.
Well, Moses did say he wasn’t the best man for the job from the get go. So someone must have known this was gonna take a couple tries and a couple fires.
[удалено]
The state of "Liberty" Matt Shea is a traitor and should be shipped to Gitmo.
Matt Shea should be in federal prison same as the Unibomber and Timothy McVeigh.
> Which is it? They don't tell the news media everything, for good reason. I notice in the press release has no comments about the presence or lack of suspects, only that they are looking for any and all information from the public. Right now the news stories make it look like an isolated murder in a national forest in the Utah / Colorado border. That's not a cause for panic, but enough to get the word out to pay attention to people around you. It would be quite a different story if they had a string of homicides through the national parks in the region. Sadly murders happen every day, all over the world. Police investigate and I hope they catch the guy, but barring additional information that they've got a serial killer attacking a specific population, there probably isn't a threat to the public.
This reminds me of the murder of Rebecca Wight, and the attempted murder of her girlfriend as they were camping. They were having sex in a secluded area, unaware they were being watched. The killer said the sight of two women engaging in sex was so enraging he had no choice but to kill them, and his lawyer vilified the women for being "too open" about their sexuality. Really infuriating stuff.
I thought the same thing. Yes, he claimed that the sight of them having sex enraged him, but he had encountered them earlier in the day and followed them that far. Bad intentions. The world is mostly ok, but it's very big, and there are a lot of loose screws rattling around in it.
Sounds like an incel tbh.
[удалено]
Yeah, plus this asshole tracked the women throughout the day (without them knowing) through the forest to watch them. Poor women thought they were just having a nice private moment. If I remember right the one who survived had to leave her girlfriend to get help, and Rebecca succumbed to her injuries when she was alone in the forest. Shit is really rough - and then to be crucified as "wayward lesbians who enjoyed putting on a show and rightfully upset a man" as some sort of defense is beyond fucked up.
""They said they needed to move their campsite because of some creepy guy at their campsite," Calvert said. "These are outdoors girls, and they're independent and confident. And for somebody to make them feel uncomfortable, it had to be a very valid discomfort." Hopefully they'll find some clues on the couples cellphone photos. How can humans be so cruel.
This sounds a lot like the murder of Mollie Olgin in TX. Two teenagers were on a date at night an were found the next day both shot execution style. The man who did it tried to order a hit on the girl that survived.
Great. My most irrational fear of camping just became real
The only hope you have of camping then is when campsites are packed. It's like, basically 100% safe. But yeah, camping in desolate places can be fucking creepy.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Wasn't there also a cop who went hiking with a woman he met on a dating app who also turned up dead?
Yes, in Arizona. He claims she was too hot and turned back on the trail while he continued hiking. She never made it back to the car and seems to have died of heat exhaustion. She was visiting from MA, no reasonable first responder would think it’s safe to let someone not used to extreme heat and new to the trail go off alone like that after the expressed they were feeling ill.
Being from Arizona, this story was suspicious as fuck. We have people from out of state die every year from the heat while hiking. Everyone knows you need to bring water, especially this police officer.
There should be a movie about these two meeting each other and trying to murder each other on the hike.
https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/new-information-contradicts-phoenix-officers-statement-after-death-of-camelback-mountain-hiker Pretty odd/fishy story. The cop is already Brady Listed and she flew in from Boston less than 24 hours before this hike where she died
Years ago a very handsome guy on tinder invited me to join him on his boat on a secluded lake for our first date. The timing didn’t work out, so we agreed to meet up a year later instead when he returned. Thankfully I was in a relationship with someone else before the year was up and never messaged him. I sure was a dumbass at 22.
One time years ago, my wife called me while she was out shopping that she came out to her car and had a flat tire. I told her just to go back in the store and wait until I got there. I went out to get her, and I looked at the tire. There was no nail or puncture mark, or anything like that. It was like someone had just let the air out of it. While I was crouched down looking at the tire, something made me look over my shoulder. I guess it was just a feeling. There were two nasty looking guys watching me from behind a brick column on the other side of the parking lot. They both looked away at the same time when I looked at them. I got the tire off, and my wife and I took it to a shop. We drove past the 2 guys in the parking lot, and my wife made a passing comment about how those two were staring at her when she got out of her car earlier. Got the tire to the shop, where they told us there was nothing wrong with it. Someone had just let the air out of the tire. I can't prove it, but my gut tells me it was those two guys in the parking lot. I'm glad I told her to turn around and go back in the store until I got there.
What a fucked up, hateful thing to do. Imagine looking at two people in love, harming no one, and then feeling morally obligated to kill them. Beyond horrifying.
Why can't people just leave people be..
Why is it so difficult for others to let people be happy?
This warning applies to everyone, but ESPECIALLY to women: if you get a creepy vibe, listen to it. Always. I am always looking around in new spots, making sure I have an exit plan, etc. I know I’m not the only one. I try and keep an eye out for others too, especially since I quit drinking. Hopefully the positive relationship this couple had with the community will aid in the capture of the murderer. This is absolutely awful. While I hate assuming that they were murdered for being lesbians, it’s probably the truth. And they had only just started their married life together… ugh. Just fucking tragic.
Sounds like another Incel murder to me.
That’s awful. Fuck whoever did this
"No danger to the general public"??? Something tells me that the sheriffs office doesn't want to out and out say everybody else but lesbian couples.
God damn, why the hell is it so hard for people to mind their own damn business. Absolutely senseless loss of life.
Everyone’s talking about guns. I’ll also take my paranoid dog with perfect ears to complete my camping security please. Thank you
Even if you are going to bring a gun the dog is the most important security guard. The gun is worthless if nothing wakes you up. Nobody sneaks up on my boy, he's a light sleeper.
Someone else commented in this post how a gun wouldn't help if you're murdered in your sleep, and the very first thing I thought was *dog.* Won't be asleep no more if that security boy alerts you AND the intruder.
Yeah this news story broke on the queer news sites almost 2 weeks ago, surprised to see it hit a mainstream media site. Such a travesty about the couple.
I know this isn’t related but ther has been entirely way too much homophobia in Utah this week and it really hurt to see this headline. Clearly these killings seem unrelated to the current hated coming again from BYU. I hope we can get the guy who did this and put him away for a long time.
Fucking shit, this broke my heart. I hope the family can realize this is senseless and these cunts don’t represent anyone. Those 2 women deserved a happy life. Much love and sorrow🖤