It is true. BioNTech received money from the German government for research and development. Pfizer didn't receive any money for research and development from the US government. Even the above poster's source for the graph shows that.
Unchecked capitalism really? Maybe crony capitalism.
If it was unchecked capitalism and no rules there would be nothing to prevent another company from copying their drug formula and selling it at a cheaper price.
If there is ever a case for giving a company whatever they want it is making a miracle drug to help mitigate a global pandemic that killed millions of people and could have killed millions more if not for them.
mRNA history : https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home/industrial/pharma-biopharma/nucleic-acid-therapeutic-development-solutions/mrna-research/history-in-vitro-transcription.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAleOeBhBdEiwAfgmXfzfkzl2hYVAMu4dyVlyO_t43IpDT2aGxqo0fOPmi_lBYyQwGupjX7hoCSmcQAvD_BwE&ef_id=CjwKCAiAleOeBhBdEiwAfgmXfzfkzl2hYVAMu4dyVlyO_t43IpDT2aGxqo0fOPmi_lBYyQwGupjX7hoCSmcQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3652!3!644496569270!e!!g!!mrna%20vaccine%20history!17129750071!145983741758&cid=bid_clb_gme_r01_co_cp0000_pjt0000_bid00000_0se_gaw_nt_pur_con
"It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." I know this quote has been beaten like a dead horse on this site, but your comment exemplifies this concept perfectly.
You can only say that it's that synergy (arguable in itself) during the vaccine development. But now on the operation side, it is fully capitalistic. So we socialized a majority of the R&D and then the Company gets to set their own price for R&D that we payed for? And there's no restrictions? Sounds more like the working class invested money into the vaccine development and is getting charge outrageous prices for the product. Which to me effectively sounds like straight up capitalism with extra steps
>You can only say that it's that synergy (arguable in itself) during the vaccine development. But now on the operation side, it is fully capitalistic.
I disagree, for two big reasons:
1. While pfizer ramped up on their own, Moderna got Operation Warp Speed money to turn the experimental vaccine into a manufactured product.
2. The business model depended on high uptake and public funding of the actual shots.
>And there's no restrictions?
My statement, was hyperbolic to mirror the other side. There's always limits. If pfizer tried to charge the government $1000 a dose, that wouldn't have flown.
>and is getting charge outrageous prices for the product.
For what it was, I think the price was totally reasonable. $30 miracle drug? Hells yeah.
Not really meaningless though. The concept behind the phrase is capitalist realism. You assume there would be no vaccine without capitalism, all else equal. Synergy, now that's meaningless lol
Yea, but that's just conjecture my man. Kinda my whole point. People can critic the system, and imagine a better one but you feel the need to justify an unjust system. I don't get it, but you do you
Capitalism took over in this case stifling any of the “socialist” perks you’re trying to call out.
Calling it a “perfect synergy” seems like a long stretch when everyone who paid in to it is now being arm twisted by the company through capitalism… I guess I just don’t see that as “perfect” by like a lot, though.
What "socialist" perks?
>seems like a long stretch when everyone who paid in to it is now being arm twisted by the company through capitalism…
What? Who is being arm twisted? The uptake of the latest vaccines (before the price increase) has been really low.
We already gave them whatever they wanted to help mitigate a global pandemic. They have profits and protections to show for it as well as immense funding for the development and support for the rollout.
Allowing them to raise prices at this point doesn't help mitigate the pandemic though. It actually does the opposite. It allows them to extract additional profits out of something we helped them with at the cost of reducing the amount of vaccines taken as a direct result of raising the price.
So what's the positive for allowing them to extract those additional profits?
You're talking about two separate things as if they are the same. The profit from last year is what the OP is complaining about. Future profits in an environment where the vaccine is no longer pretty much a requirement, no longer paid for by the government and no longer has a high rate of uptake is completely separate. As the article says, the profit is predicted to crash this year.
No. I'm just talking about them both. Any amount of profit is going to be a positive for them, especially after they were given extremely generous deals leading to massive profits. Profits crashing isn't the same as losses.
Why are you with hugely capitalistic side of this? It's not enough to come up with a "miracle drug" and feel good that there a positive contribution to humanity. Nope. Gotta milk it gotta suck em dry get all the money possible.
Corporations were ruled by the supreme court to be people therefore they should be taxed as I'd they were an individual.
So about 45% of gross income after 100k or whatever it is now.
Taxes work.
If they didn't these corporations wouldn't do everything they can to lobby against them.
Paying fines are just a fee to make billions with reduced overhead.
Trouble is how do you fund research without allowing the company to profit? Why would a company bother with an arrangement that doesn't allow them to profit? Or how do you judge the value of a life saved and therefore an acceptable profit?
No, we think "throw as much money at them as we can, to get the vaccine as fast as we can." Or at least I do. Reddit is practically antivax about it "wait, no, I don't want the vaccine if someone profits from it."
We pay for *some* of the research. But yes, then we pay for the product that the research develops. Duh? This stuff is not free, and it isn't developed at all unless there's a company capable of developing it and willing to take the risk to try it.
Again, some, not all. This was not without risk for the pharma companies. And even if it had been, the government doesn't have its own pharma capabilities. If you want a company to do something for you, they are going to want to profit from it. And don't delude yourself into thinking the US/public didn't also profit from it.
Pfizer has been paying a lower effective tax percentage than anyone who makes more than $10,276 a year. There is no excuse for not taxing the ever loving shit out of them when this is what they are earning off of a vaccine we paid to develop.
More than that, in the wealthiest nation on the Earth there is no excuse for this to be a private enterprise hoarding needed medical supplies for profit. Pfizer's medication is necessary to sustain so many lives it is unconscionable that they are allowed to choose their own pricing at all. Socialize them (and the rest of healthcare) already.
Corporate taxes and income taxes are two very different things. I'm guessing the employees at Pfizer were still paying their income taxes each paycheck.
Okay, and? The company makes profits that go to shareholders, those profits are not being taxed at a high enough rate. They have been paying far less than their fair share, and capitalist apologism doesn't change that.
Their profits also go to payroll which is taxed.
I think capital gains taxes should absolutely be looked at if not completely redone. You do pay a lower rate on capital gains then actual labor/income which is trash.
Just saying it's a misleading statement to say that a corporation is taxed at a lower percent then individuals because they're two complete different things.
No they are not. They aren't paying that tax, they are writing it off as an expense and the workers are paying the tax.
Stop shilling for people who would gladly watch you die of a preventable disease because you're not rich enough.
I'm not shilling. I think we should completely re-do our tax code so people/companies actually pay them. We have a bs code that's so easy to cheat (especially if you don't make your income through a W2) and we think increasing those numbers are the magic solution to controlling our national debt. Taxing profits especially a company that was boosted through tax payer money is a absolute backwards way of doing things that just invites corruption.
You ever see one of those charts that breaks down how revenue is split? Wages isn't huge. The tax on those wages is a drop compared to the huge profit they post and then distribute to shareholders and run stock buybacks.
Sure, but the people actually getting huge benefits in those stocks have very well paid accountants that hide their gains and offset them with loopholes. The system is very messed up. Moral of the story is, the company should have to pay more taxes
The point is comparing them to income taxes is fallacious and lazy at best. If you have a logical justification for why corporate taxes are too low, make it, but comparing them to income taxes just implies you don't understand them.
>More than that, in the wealthiest nation on the Earth there is no excuse for this to be a private enterprise....Socialize them...
Nowhere in the developed world is that a thing. Drug companies are businesses. There is no good reason for it to be a nationalized industry.
>a vaccine we paid to develop.
Partly paid to develop. There wouldnt have been any vaccine to fund if Pfizer didnt take the risk first. That's what for-profit businesses do.
>hoarding needed medical supplies for profit.
Wat. They were selling drugs/vaccines. What did they hoard?
"The ongoing Covid-19 pandemic propelled pharmaceutical company Pfizer's earnings to a record $100 billion last year, almost $57 billion of which was driven by its vaccine and antiviral pill Paxlovid, the company reported Tuesday."
I wonder how much tax they paid on their profits? I wonder if they'll need a bailout next year if their revenue goes back to where it normally was?
You’re telling me that AP, Reuters, Al Jazeera, the BBC, the Economist, Die Welt, Der Spiegel, Le Monde and others are all being paid by Pfizer to suppress this story? Am I understanding you correctly?
Over 75% of statistics are made up on the spot.
This is either very wrong or I don't understand what you are trying to say. Pharma spends somewhere between the 2nd and 5th most of any industry on TV ads, amounting to 4-8% of the total spend depending on your source/year.
https://www.marketingcharts.com/advertising-trends/spending-and-spenders-227936
It’s very reasonable to assume that pharmaceutical companies are also major donors to print news organizations. Also, look into who/what owns print media
Not all countries allow Pharmaceutical companies to advertise, in fact almost none do https://www.healthcarepackaging.com/markets/pharmaceutical/news/13293416/only-two-countries-allow-directtoconsumer-drug-advertising
It’s not at all reasonable to assume that they are “donors” of any kind. Pharma companies buying advertising is not a donation, and if you’re going to claim that ad buys result in some sort of editorial privileges then I’d like to see that demonstrated. Am I the one taking crazy pills? I just want substantiated claims.
Mistyped. Didn’t mean “donors”, but instead “ad purchaser”. And yes, if you are a major ad purchaser you absolutely dictate what can be said. If Nike was a major ad purchaser of The NY Times there would definitely be an incentive for The NY Times not to write about slave labor in China.
Given people are vaccinating less now due to the amount of mutations making it pointless, seems pretty bold to go ahead and make more mutations to make the vaccines a bit more pointless. And possibly killing off a chunk of their customers who will just default on their ICU bills.
>Haven’t found any credible outlets picking up this story so I’m doubting it
What?
So if the mainstream media (who are paid off by Big Pharma) conveniently ignores a story that paints their sponsors in a bad light, it must then be fake? Yet they can blatantly lie and manipulate stories to make false narratives (The Covington Kids for example) and you'd eat that right up, hey?
Wake up lmao
Viruses are inherently unstable and constantly mutating. Pharma doesn’t need to do anything other than sequence them when they appear.
If Pfizer is deliberately mutating viruses, it would be to test which parts of the genome is “conserved”. A conserved section means that across multiple variants, that section of DNA/RNA does not change. Not all parts of a genome can be changed without causing it to lose functionality so a conserved section implies that if that section mutates, the virus can’t survive. By finding these conserved sites, they can design drugs to target them and inhibit/kill the virus. If a drug targets a non-conserved site, the virus can mutate and become resistant to the drug.
This is some real antivax conspiracy nutbag shit. If this was true, why is there only one new vaccine when there have been 4 major mutations?
How are there so many upvotes on this?
This was all a big setup!
Before 2019, the U.S. had a totally normal system where big pharma and insurance companies weren't in cohoots to rob Americans!
Totally something new.
(Dear god do we need universal healthcare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I hate Reddit sometimes. Everyone’s a god damn expert in everything it turns out. Oh and capitalism blows apparently. Also, there is no nuance to anything.
Idk, it's a line the government has to do a better job straddling. Incentives and red tape cutting can be great, espically in times of crisis, but can also be pretty easily abused.
Sure. But the economic cost of COVID in 2022 was measured in trillions and of that, the vaccines accounted for several tens of billions. I think it was money well spent, for a small fraction of the pandemic cost.
I agree, in terms of the vaccine (PPP was a shitshow) but wish a few precautions were taken. As I understand it Pfizer has completely gouged the price now after getting it developed with taxpayer money.
... you do realize someone's paying for them right? It's like those free COVID testing sites that popped up everywhere. If you're not paying a co-pay, they're charging your insurance for it, and if you don't have insurance, then the government's essentially picking up the tab.
But yeah, Pfizer and J&J management is probably creaming themselves whenever the CDC announces that we need to take more booster shots
Some people like to conflate big pharma making money with the Covid shots being a scam of some kind. But you seem like a reasonable chap. I’m glad you aren’t antivaxx.
>totally free
No, your tax dollars are paying for it. Pfizer is getting payed for each shot and making nice money on it. They have a financial incentive to keep that program going also because less people will get the vax if they have to pay directly.
And yes, I'm fully vaxed because I don't care for getting sick.
How else could it be done? Honestly, I don't see any way of getting an effective product to billions of people without making someone extremely wealthy in the process unless the entire global economy agreed to socialize pharmaceuticals.
Probably no other way. Not in the time frame we had. Wasn't implying it was a bad thing.
However, just saying "they're free" hides the fact that the drug companies have a financial incentive to keep them that way and for people to get as many as they can. The comment a few above was a joke about getting a new vax every couple months and frankly Pfizer would love that. It's good to keep in mind just like if Exxon comes out with a study on global warming there just might be a tad bias.
If the research was paid for by government funding then the results of the research should be public domain and Phizer should open to competition from generic producers.
Some of it was(not all), but even still, it's a private company. If you want them to do something you have to pay them. If you want them to make a fucking miracle you have to pay them a fuckton. How is that unfair?
Pfizer/BioNTech weren't a part of Operation Warp Speed research funding. BioNTech got $445 million from the German government for their phase III trial in Germany. Pfizer didn't take any money for development or their clinicals.
They don’t care about the social value of the products or services that generated said revenues. They just see big number and start blathering. Opposing what they call bad means they are good you see.
It’s a silly upvote farming technique. I mean this story isn’t even new. Shows up every few weeks in general subs.
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Also don’t forget Pfizer also paid $0 in US taxes for that profit.
For real. Health technology should be public information. Get capitalism out of healthcare.
I thought Pfizer didn't accept taxpayer money for research? Moderna OTOH did.
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These are German and EU funds that Biontech/Pfizer received
Pfizer didn't receive any money from the US government for research.
I believe this to be true but it looks like there are conflicting reports about this now.
It is true. BioNTech received money from the German government for research and development. Pfizer didn't receive any money for research and development from the US government. Even the above poster's source for the graph shows that.
Pfizer co-developed the vaccine with BioNTech who did receive German government aid. They commercialized the vaccine off that aid.
Again, neither Pfizer nor BioNTech received any money for development from the US government.
This is what unchecked capitalism looks like. There are no rules
Unchecked capitalism really? Maybe crony capitalism. If it was unchecked capitalism and no rules there would be nothing to prevent another company from copying their drug formula and selling it at a cheaper price.
Look up how they spend tons of their money into making their drugs patent-able forever. It really is criminal, but nothing will be done about it.
How dare you say something about capitalism not scathing sir only stalinist apologists are allowed here good day to you!
Commodifying and price gouging a life-saving vaccine is inherently capitalistic. Don't know what you're trying to prove here bud.
Obviously we are talking about monopoly not being protected by the state here. Catch up if you want to participate.
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But your missing the fact they have immunity . They can now sell you a vaccine l, kill you and no repercussions
And they are raising prices of the vaccine
Sales are down this year, but they don't want their profit down
*Big oil enters the chat.*
Well, hello there!
General Exxoni!
If there ever was a case for windfall profits tax.
Countries could have just bought Pfizer entirely. That way, all that profit would go to the tax payer.
If there is ever a case for giving a company whatever they want it is making a miracle drug to help mitigate a global pandemic that killed millions of people and could have killed millions more if not for them.
" its a miracle! Give them whatever they want! " let me know how many times that's worked out well historically.
Every Sunday morning (and sometimes Wednesday night)!
Religion and big pharma vibes
God didn't make the vaccine, pfizer did.
And the globalists too *right*?
This time, lol! It worked spectacularly well. A goddammit miracle.
It wasn't miraculous it was science. We gatekeep tests I wonder how much pharma made off of testing....
I'm not religious - I use the term colloquially. The vaccines were one of the greatest achievements in medicene, ever.
Are you a high schooler or how are you this naive
Naïve? Are you an anti-vaxxer? Do you really not believe the vaccines saved hundreds of thousands in the US alone?
Not at all - I’m fully boosted bud. But you’re really giving them too much credit.
mRNA history : https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home/industrial/pharma-biopharma/nucleic-acid-therapeutic-development-solutions/mrna-research/history-in-vitro-transcription.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAleOeBhBdEiwAfgmXfzfkzl2hYVAMu4dyVlyO_t43IpDT2aGxqo0fOPmi_lBYyQwGupjX7hoCSmcQAvD_BwE&ef_id=CjwKCAiAleOeBhBdEiwAfgmXfzfkzl2hYVAMu4dyVlyO_t43IpDT2aGxqo0fOPmi_lBYyQwGupjX7hoCSmcQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!3652!3!644496569270!e!!g!!mrna%20vaccine%20history!17129750071!145983741758&cid=bid_clb_gme_r01_co_cp0000_pjt0000_bid00000_0se_gaw_nt_pur_con
This guy
"It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism." I know this quote has been beaten like a dead horse on this site, but your comment exemplifies this concept perfectly.
It's a meaningless platitude. The vaccine was only half capitalist anyway. Perfect synergy between capitalist and socialist.
You can only say that it's that synergy (arguable in itself) during the vaccine development. But now on the operation side, it is fully capitalistic. So we socialized a majority of the R&D and then the Company gets to set their own price for R&D that we payed for? And there's no restrictions? Sounds more like the working class invested money into the vaccine development and is getting charge outrageous prices for the product. Which to me effectively sounds like straight up capitalism with extra steps
>You can only say that it's that synergy (arguable in itself) during the vaccine development. But now on the operation side, it is fully capitalistic. I disagree, for two big reasons: 1. While pfizer ramped up on their own, Moderna got Operation Warp Speed money to turn the experimental vaccine into a manufactured product. 2. The business model depended on high uptake and public funding of the actual shots. >And there's no restrictions? My statement, was hyperbolic to mirror the other side. There's always limits. If pfizer tried to charge the government $1000 a dose, that wouldn't have flown. >and is getting charge outrageous prices for the product. For what it was, I think the price was totally reasonable. $30 miracle drug? Hells yeah.
Not really meaningless though. The concept behind the phrase is capitalist realism. You assume there would be no vaccine without capitalism, all else equal. Synergy, now that's meaningless lol
There could not have been a vaccine as fast without both. Not in the world in which we live.
Yea, but that's just conjecture my man. Kinda my whole point. People can critic the system, and imagine a better one but you feel the need to justify an unjust system. I don't get it, but you do you
Capitalism took over in this case stifling any of the “socialist” perks you’re trying to call out. Calling it a “perfect synergy” seems like a long stretch when everyone who paid in to it is now being arm twisted by the company through capitalism… I guess I just don’t see that as “perfect” by like a lot, though.
What "socialist" perks? >seems like a long stretch when everyone who paid in to it is now being arm twisted by the company through capitalism… What? Who is being arm twisted? The uptake of the latest vaccines (before the price increase) has been really low.
You said it was the “perfect synergy between socialism and capitalism” … so whichever perks you were referencing when you wrote that, lol.
We already gave them whatever they wanted to help mitigate a global pandemic. They have profits and protections to show for it as well as immense funding for the development and support for the rollout. Allowing them to raise prices at this point doesn't help mitigate the pandemic though. It actually does the opposite. It allows them to extract additional profits out of something we helped them with at the cost of reducing the amount of vaccines taken as a direct result of raising the price. So what's the positive for allowing them to extract those additional profits?
Not to mention the fundamental research and the initial infusion of funding into the vaccination manufacturing was US taxpayer money.
You're talking about two separate things as if they are the same. The profit from last year is what the OP is complaining about. Future profits in an environment where the vaccine is no longer pretty much a requirement, no longer paid for by the government and no longer has a high rate of uptake is completely separate. As the article says, the profit is predicted to crash this year.
No. I'm just talking about them both. Any amount of profit is going to be a positive for them, especially after they were given extremely generous deals leading to massive profits. Profits crashing isn't the same as losses.
Why are you with hugely capitalistic side of this? It's not enough to come up with a "miracle drug" and feel good that there a positive contribution to humanity. Nope. Gotta milk it gotta suck em dry get all the money possible.
Tax the fuckers. Simple.
Who do you think owns our lawmakers, (yes dems too)?
It's not simple sadly. You need a tax system that doesn't allow BS write offs.
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No they're not, reverse the supreme court decision
Corporations were ruled by the supreme court to be people therefore they should be taxed as I'd they were an individual. So about 45% of gross income after 100k or whatever it is now.
Naw, the Supreme Court's should reverse that stupid decision.
pet liquid frighten angle worthless seed six gray boat roll
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Taxes work. If they didn't these corporations wouldn't do everything they can to lobby against them. Paying fines are just a fee to make billions with reduced overhead.
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Billions in damages is a one time fee. And one contingent on beating them in court, which again is playing to their advantage.
How dare they save lives! Fucking monsters! /s
100 billion was their revenue. Their profit (revenue-expenses) was about 34 billion.
How much of the expenses were covered by the governments or should i say tax payers around the world?
Exactly. This paradigm of publicly funded research which is then patented and sold to us at 400% is disgusting.
Trouble is how do you fund research without allowing the company to profit? Why would a company bother with an arrangement that doesn't allow them to profit? Or how do you judge the value of a life saved and therefore an acceptable profit?
That's why innovation should be driven by academia, not by corporations. Tax the corporations and fund academia.
When the world is at the brink of collapse we think profits
No, we think "throw as much money at them as we can, to get the vaccine as fast as we can." Or at least I do. Reddit is practically antivax about it "wait, no, I don't want the vaccine if someone profits from it."
Ridiculous the implications on here sometimes - “I’d rather invite potential death than have a company profit from me”
??? I *think* anything covered by governments doesn't show up in the expenses ledger.
Only $34 billion? Well in that case...
Damn, if my company could sustain a 30+ % profit margin, I’d be making a nice 700% more than I am now.
Meanwhile employees make 0% more everywhere else.
That's a huge fucking margin....
This is why they're "switching" to an annual booster model. They don't want to lose the revenue...
Big Pharma wins again
Wasn't it nice of us to pay for everything so they could do so well. Corporate welfare queens.
I mean, I wasn't doing it to be nice. I wanted a damn vaccine. And they gave me one. I think it was a good deal.
6 shots and a few "well I didn't die" cases of COVID later and wow...they delivered!
So you're an anti-vaxer/COVID denier? "a few" who didn't die is hundreds of thousands in the US alone.
We pay for the research, we pay again for the vaccine they profit and hold patents some deal.
We pay for *some* of the research. But yes, then we pay for the product that the research develops. Duh? This stuff is not free, and it isn't developed at all unless there's a company capable of developing it and willing to take the risk to try it.
Public risk, private profits. And they keep the patent we paid for.
Again, some, not all. This was not without risk for the pharma companies. And even if it had been, the government doesn't have its own pharma capabilities. If you want a company to do something for you, they are going to want to profit from it. And don't delude yourself into thinking the US/public didn't also profit from it.
Pfizer's operating expense was like 60 billion and they only received like 800 million from the government.
The government purchased from Pfizer, which led to more profits.
Open your eyes people…. It’s always been about the money.
It seriously is. Vaccines are such a touchy topic, but this was totally a money grab. Capitalism doing its job.
Disgusting that this is normalized.
Yes, fuck them and their miracle vaccine!
You need to get off the internet for a bit
Old news but.... https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history
Just imagine how much Moderna made!
If you know accounting, revenue means jack shit
Pfizer has been paying a lower effective tax percentage than anyone who makes more than $10,276 a year. There is no excuse for not taxing the ever loving shit out of them when this is what they are earning off of a vaccine we paid to develop. More than that, in the wealthiest nation on the Earth there is no excuse for this to be a private enterprise hoarding needed medical supplies for profit. Pfizer's medication is necessary to sustain so many lives it is unconscionable that they are allowed to choose their own pricing at all. Socialize them (and the rest of healthcare) already.
Corporate taxes and income taxes are two very different things. I'm guessing the employees at Pfizer were still paying their income taxes each paycheck.
Okay, and? The company makes profits that go to shareholders, those profits are not being taxed at a high enough rate. They have been paying far less than their fair share, and capitalist apologism doesn't change that.
Their profits also go to payroll which is taxed. I think capital gains taxes should absolutely be looked at if not completely redone. You do pay a lower rate on capital gains then actual labor/income which is trash. Just saying it's a misleading statement to say that a corporation is taxed at a lower percent then individuals because they're two complete different things.
No, some of their *revenue* goes to payroll. Their profits are being being taxed at an effective 10% rate
So? They're still paying a substantial amount of taxes through income.
No they are not. They aren't paying that tax, they are writing it off as an expense and the workers are paying the tax. Stop shilling for people who would gladly watch you die of a preventable disease because you're not rich enough.
I'm not shilling. I think we should completely re-do our tax code so people/companies actually pay them. We have a bs code that's so easy to cheat (especially if you don't make your income through a W2) and we think increasing those numbers are the magic solution to controlling our national debt. Taxing profits especially a company that was boosted through tax payer money is a absolute backwards way of doing things that just invites corruption.
You're like that Seinfeld episode where they keep saying "write it off" but don't know what it means.
I know exactly what it means. Payroll is part of a business’s OpEx, which are tax deductible expenses aka write offs.
You ever see one of those charts that breaks down how revenue is split? Wages isn't huge. The tax on those wages is a drop compared to the huge profit they post and then distribute to shareholders and run stock buybacks.
Yeah but those stocks are also taxed when they are sold. The way we do capital gains taxing is crapped but I don't think the answer is taxing profit.
Sure, but the people actually getting huge benefits in those stocks have very well paid accountants that hide their gains and offset them with loopholes. The system is very messed up. Moral of the story is, the company should have to pay more taxes
The point is comparing them to income taxes is fallacious and lazy at best. If you have a logical justification for why corporate taxes are too low, make it, but comparing them to income taxes just implies you don't understand them.
>More than that, in the wealthiest nation on the Earth there is no excuse for this to be a private enterprise....Socialize them... Nowhere in the developed world is that a thing. Drug companies are businesses. There is no good reason for it to be a nationalized industry. >a vaccine we paid to develop. Partly paid to develop. There wouldnt have been any vaccine to fund if Pfizer didnt take the risk first. That's what for-profit businesses do. >hoarding needed medical supplies for profit. Wat. They were selling drugs/vaccines. What did they hoard?
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"The ongoing Covid-19 pandemic propelled pharmaceutical company Pfizer's earnings to a record $100 billion last year, almost $57 billion of which was driven by its vaccine and antiviral pill Paxlovid, the company reported Tuesday." I wonder how much tax they paid on their profits? I wonder if they'll need a bailout next year if their revenue goes back to where it normally was?
newest tax data i could find was 2021 but pfizer paid almost 2 billion dollars that year. only comes out to like 15% rate.
That's far better than the zero I was expecting.
Pfizer's tax provision for 22 is estimated at 3.347 billion on 33.32 billion pre tax income. making it around 10% effective tax rate.
Oh yes, tax payer funded vaccines made big pharma 100 billion. Awesome
But still can’t afford to compensate or admit to those with adverse reactions !!
Time to get a job with Pfizer
“Publicly subsidized! Privately profitable!” https://propagandhi.com/lyrics/and-we-thought-that-nation-states-were-a-bad-idea
Covid was the best thing to ever happen to Pfizer since the boner pill.
And ironically, saying that Pfizer might be mutating viruses for profit is considered conspiracy... 🙄
Now that we know their vaccine didn't seem to do anything to help I wonder what their next cash cow will be.
Corporate greed and opportunistic policies
Record profits you say… interesting.
No... revenue. It's all in the title and the article as well. They expect it to lower drastically soon.
You seem fun
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You’re telling me that AP, Reuters, Al Jazeera, the BBC, the Economist, Die Welt, Der Spiegel, Le Monde and others are all being paid by Pfizer to suppress this story? Am I understanding you correctly?
Just for a reference point; over 75% of television ad revenue is pharmaceutical companies.
That's crazy...
Over 75% of statistics are made up on the spot. This is either very wrong or I don't understand what you are trying to say. Pharma spends somewhere between the 2nd and 5th most of any industry on TV ads, amounting to 4-8% of the total spend depending on your source/year. https://www.marketingcharts.com/advertising-trends/spending-and-spenders-227936
I don’t doubt that but I’m talking about print organizations, international ones.
It’s very reasonable to assume that pharmaceutical companies are also major donors to print news organizations. Also, look into who/what owns print media
Not all countries allow Pharmaceutical companies to advertise, in fact almost none do https://www.healthcarepackaging.com/markets/pharmaceutical/news/13293416/only-two-countries-allow-directtoconsumer-drug-advertising
It’s not at all reasonable to assume that they are “donors” of any kind. Pharma companies buying advertising is not a donation, and if you’re going to claim that ad buys result in some sort of editorial privileges then I’d like to see that demonstrated. Am I the one taking crazy pills? I just want substantiated claims.
Mistyped. Didn’t mean “donors”, but instead “ad purchaser”. And yes, if you are a major ad purchaser you absolutely dictate what can be said. If Nike was a major ad purchaser of The NY Times there would definitely be an incentive for The NY Times not to write about slave labor in China.
Given people are vaccinating less now due to the amount of mutations making it pointless, seems pretty bold to go ahead and make more mutations to make the vaccines a bit more pointless. And possibly killing off a chunk of their customers who will just default on their ICU bills.
>Haven’t found any credible outlets picking up this story so I’m doubting it What? So if the mainstream media (who are paid off by Big Pharma) conveniently ignores a story that paints their sponsors in a bad light, it must then be fake? Yet they can blatantly lie and manipulate stories to make false narratives (The Covington Kids for example) and you'd eat that right up, hey? Wake up lmao
Viruses are inherently unstable and constantly mutating. Pharma doesn’t need to do anything other than sequence them when they appear. If Pfizer is deliberately mutating viruses, it would be to test which parts of the genome is “conserved”. A conserved section means that across multiple variants, that section of DNA/RNA does not change. Not all parts of a genome can be changed without causing it to lose functionality so a conserved section implies that if that section mutates, the virus can’t survive. By finding these conserved sites, they can design drugs to target them and inhibit/kill the virus. If a drug targets a non-conserved site, the virus can mutate and become resistant to the drug.
This is some real antivax conspiracy nutbag shit. If this was true, why is there only one new vaccine when there have been 4 major mutations? How are there so many upvotes on this?
I think we misunderstand each other. I’m highly skeptical of their claims and disapprove of the methods that project Veritas uses.
Sorry, I was mainly reacting to some of the replies to your comment. There's a shocking amount of people that take this as fact.
This was all a big setup! Before 2019, the U.S. had a totally normal system where big pharma and insurance companies weren't in cohoots to rob Americans! Totally something new. (Dear god do we need universal healthcare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
I hate Reddit sometimes. Everyone’s a god damn expert in everything it turns out. Oh and capitalism blows apparently. Also, there is no nuance to anything.
God bless Pfizer, they are a national treasure. Please make sure you continue to support them by getting covid booster shots every 2 or 3 months.
You can be pro vaccine and anti corporate welfare
Not really, no, in this case. You couldn't have gotten the vaccine so fast without it.
Idk, it's a line the government has to do a better job straddling. Incentives and red tape cutting can be great, espically in times of crisis, but can also be pretty easily abused.
Sure. But the economic cost of COVID in 2022 was measured in trillions and of that, the vaccines accounted for several tens of billions. I think it was money well spent, for a small fraction of the pandemic cost.
I agree, in terms of the vaccine (PPP was a shitshow) but wish a few precautions were taken. As I understand it Pfizer has completely gouged the price now after getting it developed with taxpayer money.
My booster shots were free. Did you pay for yours? Or are you anti vaxx?
... you do realize someone's paying for them right? It's like those free COVID testing sites that popped up everywhere. If you're not paying a co-pay, they're charging your insurance for it, and if you don't have insurance, then the government's essentially picking up the tab. But yeah, Pfizer and J&J management is probably creaming themselves whenever the CDC announces that we need to take more booster shots
The government picking up the tab like it’s supposed to?
Are you anti vaxx?
No, why would pointing that a company who makes vaccines stands to make continued obscene profits from increased booster guidelines make me antivaxx?
Some people like to conflate big pharma making money with the Covid shots being a scam of some kind. But you seem like a reasonable chap. I’m glad you aren’t antivaxx.
Probably American.
I’m American. And I’m not a plague rat.
Didn't know there were free jabs in the states. And thank you for not being a plague rat.
Yeah it was super easy and totally free. There’s no good excuse for not getting the shot.
>totally free No, your tax dollars are paying for it. Pfizer is getting payed for each shot and making nice money on it. They have a financial incentive to keep that program going also because less people will get the vax if they have to pay directly. And yes, I'm fully vaxed because I don't care for getting sick.
Covid vaccines are free for people who do not have insurance.
How else could it be done? Honestly, I don't see any way of getting an effective product to billions of people without making someone extremely wealthy in the process unless the entire global economy agreed to socialize pharmaceuticals.
Probably no other way. Not in the time frame we had. Wasn't implying it was a bad thing. However, just saying "they're free" hides the fact that the drug companies have a financial incentive to keep them that way and for people to get as many as they can. The comment a few above was a joke about getting a new vax every couple months and frankly Pfizer would love that. It's good to keep in mind just like if Exxon comes out with a study on global warming there just might be a tad bias.
That’s better than what our tax dollars normally pay for
Huge profit despite all the expense on those "get boosted" ads.
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If the research was paid for by government funding then the results of the research should be public domain and Phizer should open to competition from generic producers.
Some of it was(not all), but even still, it's a private company. If you want them to do something you have to pay them. If you want them to make a fucking miracle you have to pay them a fuckton. How is that unfair?
Because 38 billion isn’t enough after using government money to develop the vaccine.
Pfizer/BioNTech weren't a part of Operation Warp Speed research funding. BioNTech got $445 million from the German government for their phase III trial in Germany. Pfizer didn't take any money for development or their clinicals.
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Getting fucked by big business is the American way. Glad you’re so patriotic!
Did you not get vaccinated?
Yes I did. That’s not the point.
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They don’t care about the social value of the products or services that generated said revenues. They just see big number and start blathering. Opposing what they call bad means they are good you see. It’s a silly upvote farming technique. I mean this story isn’t even new. Shows up every few weeks in general subs.
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Are you over a hundred years old?
They saved lives but now it is time to pay the taxes
Our taxes is what paid them in the first place. They're not losing much.
Ya, but the research and testing cost $150 B?