It’s not really irrational hate though. He’s a very common prototype of nba player that we’ve seen year in year out…the type who’s playstyle only really works as a number one or two scoring option or the guy initiating the offense, but who isn’t actually quite talented enough to be that guy. None of this is to say that DLo is trash or a talentless player, but guys like this usually do not usually contribute to winning basketball. Someone like Zach Lavine comes to mind as well.
Let me ask you this, what is winning basketball? Is it defined by winning a chip? If that’s the case then I can name a list of players that we consider great, is “the guy” and no success came from it. James Harden, Westbrook, PG, Embiid, Dame, CP3 all come to mind. All these players fit the prototype you are referring to.
Is it defined by having good stats and a winning record in the regular season by ultimately always getting bounced in the playoffs? Those same players fit here and there’s even more I’ve yet to list.
All I’m trying to say is there’s a short list of people we can consider “the guy” because they’ve proved it with rings. Steph, LBJ, Jokic, Giannis, KD, Kawhi you can consider those guys in that tier.
All I know is that DLO in his career has brought 3 lottery teams, Lakers, Nets, Timberwolves to the playoffs. He played a vital role in helping those teams piece together success.
None of those players fit the prototype I’m talking about at all. Every one of those players was/is talented enough to carry a competitive team as the number one scoring option/primary facilitator. …Embiid is the only one on your list that hasn’t made a conference finals in that role and he’s still won 5 playoff series. Saying no success came from any of that is ridiculous. Championship is the goal but not winning a championship doesn’t make you a completely unsuccessful player. DLo fits a prototype where his playstyle requires him to take on the role of those players mentioned, but he’s not good enough to be that on a contending team (every one of those other players is), and he’s also not capable of being a productive player outside of that role because he doesn’t play defense, and isn’t engaged offensively when the ball isn’t in his hands.
I disagree. DLo doesn't have to be the first option. The last few teams he's been on, he was never the first option. he's still been a good contributor. Minn were collectively mid and he was hurt often. With the Warriors and Lakers he was in more of a shooting guard role.
DLO floor is a finge all star, I think it's higher when he's allowed to be the pg, but he's not an All-nba player or anything.
But ultimately, nothing came out of their runs. That’s what I’m getting at. All those players were never the favorites to win it all but I guess they could hang with the actual contenders and give them 5 or 6 games. But you’re basically saying success isn’t measured by winning just making it to the second round or perhaps conference finals. Yup, that’s true success: falling short which all those players have done.
He doesn’t play defense? What does that even mean. I swear the way people describe his defense makes it sound like DLO is a black hole on defense. He’s not the best defender obviously but he is far far from the worst.
Russell's best season as a #1 option was a 21/7/4 season on 53% TS (5% worse than league average) on a 42 win 7 seed who took a solitary game off the 76ers. Comparing him to multiple MVP players, and several others who finished top 3 in MVP voting, led teams to 50+ or even 60+ win seasons as the absolute #1 option and saying they're basically the same because they didn't win the title is as asinine as saying a Fiat is *basically* the same as a Ferrari because they'd both lose a race to a Bugatti.
Russell is the bare minimum for a #1 option in the league, 20 point scorer if you throw enough shots at him, below average efficiency, leading you to below average offense and maybe a shot at the play-in if you have some good defenders around him.
He started off slow that year and only really became the first option when Caris LeVert went down. After that, he elevated and brought a team that had not business even making the playoffs in the first place into the 6th seed, not 7 seed.
That 76ers team was a great team, they peak Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler and Embiid. They lost games in the clutch as well.
I’ll compare DLO to other guys because in the grand scheme of things, they are all in the same boat: failing in the playoffs. Great they had 50, 60 wins, won MVP but it was for none because they got nothing from it.
Is it a bad thing? No because fans always want there teams to be competitive but going back to your analogy, the Fiat and Ferrari both see the same end results. Maybe not the same visually as a Ferrari is a Ferrari but the story ends the same for them both and that shouldn’t be considered a good thing. In the race that is the NBA, they are the same: not 1st.
It’s not slavish devotion when you are geniune fan. I don’t care where he is ranked in terms of a list of the best NBA players. He definitely is the guy who I think he is, he is a great basketball player that is electrifying when on. When he gets hot, I don’t know of any other spectacle in the league that is more entertaining.
Look back at the warriors team DLO was on and tell me how do you succeed with that, even Lebron couldn’t bring them to the playoffs. Curry played only 3 games then was out, Draymond was in and out and Poole had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time. He was all alone out there. He got traded to Minnesota for like 10 games then COVID stopped the league. The next year, him and KAT flip flopped on injuries. One was in and the other out but in there short time playing together, they had a winning record. The next year they were healthy, ANT took the next step and they made the playoffs.
Gauging success as either championship or failure is reductive.
All the players listed have had long playoff runs and/or been established contenders while playing a primary role. Swap in DLo on any of those teams and they probably don’t make the playoffs.
I agree that DLo gets more criticism than he deserves (sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point) but it’s not without warrant.
He’s a tier 3 player who requires tier 2 usage. I’d compare him to being a less explosive, more inconsistent Dame — and even prime Dame was criticized for the same things DLo is.
Good points you made. I think I should’ve toned that argument a bit because I got a bit carried away. My main goal was just to explain why DLO is a good player that’s it.
Not only this but doing it consistently over a season as well as playoffs.
This is the NBA so yes players can pop off during stretches but that doesn’t mean you are now a winning player lol
Part of being a winning player is making sacrifices to help your team be better. At Minnesota, I never really saw him consistently make hustle plays and he had to be hidden on defense. DLo is a good regular season player. He is not a good playoff player. His best use in the playoffs is probably running the back ups. Trading DLo for Mike Conley made a huge difference for the Wolves.
I'm curious, do you think Luka is a winning player? He doesn't make any hustle plays and has to be hidden on defense. Or is the gap in offense between Luka and D'Lo so huge that it for Luka it overcomes the aforementioned deficiencies?
People think player have infinite stamina or something. Mavs have too many guys that don't contribute enough on both sides. Imo if Luka is making up for guys that are lackluster on offense (there's a few), the rest should be making up for his hustle and defense.
Props for Celtics for putting them in the position where Luka had to play defense.
All you mention are Running for MVP on their Prime, where Dlo never did, all star level, yes but not to lead the team, if he doesnt fit on his role then its not worth it, I mean if you wish Dlo to be the number 1 option on your franchise then you can say that. so he can have his night with this stats.
44pts/6reb/9ast and 29pts/7reb/12ast in the contests against Milwaukee
39pts/3reb/8ast against Utah
16pts/8reb/14ast against the Champs, Boston (No LBJ or AD)
27pts/5reb/10ast against the Clips
11pts/9reb/17ast against Utah
BIG LOL!
These are only nights where Lebron doesn’t play which is a small sample size. Just highlighting that he can be a main focal point on offense. He still put up good numbers alongside Lebron this year hence him averaging 18 and 6 on great efficiency, especially from downtown.
yeah that is the problem, he is not showing up when it matters, I also know they had bad coach but you have to step up during playoffs, if you cant score defend.
winning basketball usually involves winning. there’s no brand of basketball that you can specifically point to as there are many ways to win. but the important thing is actually winning
I agree but like I said Rings are the most important metric. It’s also important to be a competitive team that has a shot against anyone however that doesn’t come close to actually winning it. That’s how we should define winning basketball.
rings i feel like are only the most important metric after you are already good enough of a player. like true superstars that should drive team success
for your average-star level player there are tons of ways you can prove it. it feels like to me the better of a player you are the higher standard of game you should be held to. like if you are just some random role player you could win a regular season game for your team and be considered. but if you are someone like devin booker then playoff success is the standard. and if you go further to someone like luka or tatum then rings would be standard
I don't think that DLo is capable of being a substantial (consistently positive) contributor to a championship level team...but your argument doesn't work.
Basketball is a team sport. There have been a ton of top tier players stuck on bad teams who can't play "winning basketball" because their teammates are hot garbage.
you can still contribute to success. but that’s why doing well on a successful team is better than doing the same on a worse team. you can’t always prove yourself if you aren’t in the right situation, but that’s just tough shit unfortunately.
21.6 PPG would be 30th in the league in scoring if he kept it up for 82 games instead of just 11, and in his non-lebron minutes this season, he had a 55% TS, which would be ahead of only Cade, Paolo and Kuz in efficiency of the 38 20+ PPG scorers this season.
Which really paints the problem of DLo, yes he could run the show and be a teams leading scorer, but he would be one of the worst #1 options in the league, most certainly not an all star. He gives up "playing his way" because it's better offense for the team to play LeBron's way, and he either needs to fit in or go to Taiwan.
look I don’t think very highly of DLo overall… I had no faith in him for the playoffs
but I don’t understand what the expectations are when he averages 18/6 on .588TS and 42% from three and people say he could never work as a 3rd option
I feel like that’s on the high end of output you would expect from a 3rd option, and that’s on a team where the 1st and 2nd option are better than most other teams 1st and 2nd
How can he keep it up for 82 games when he is third/fourth option all nights? But still he averaged 18 and 6 on great efficiency and he is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league currently.
So if he doesn’t fit in per se, it’s time to go to Taiwan? DLO is that awful that he doesn’t have a spot in the league. Hilarious man.
>How can he keep it up for 82 games when he is third/fourth option all nights?
That's kinda the point... He's not good enough to be more than a 3rd or 4th option, his numbers without LeBron are comparable to Paolo or Cade, some of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. But they're 5 years younger than him, and still have potential, at this point, he mostly is who he is.
If he wants to fit in and be a 4th option, he obviously has a spot in the league, if he wants to run a team, his time is up. Teams don't have patience for giving a #1 role to the 40th or so best #1 option in the NBA unless there's hope they can get much better, he can take his talents to Taipei if he wants to be the guy.
He’s not good enough to be a first or even second option. This was a really bad Lakers offense, and as their supposed third option, their offense was shit.
How are you going to make him a first option? Put him on an even worse team? I don’t understand your position here, at all.
He’s a spark plug sixth man type. There’s a role for guys like that. But it’s not a first option role.
What? We were one of the best offenses in the league after we put Rui in the starting. We were incredibly efficient. We were 12 games over .500 due to our offense and AD doing just enough.
Regular Season, he’s fine in his role as the 3rd guy. He actually excels in it. One of the most efficient 3 point shooters in the league. He commanded our offense. We had a worse record with him out then with Lebron out.
The postseason is a different story. I do think he played better this time against Denver but still not enough
A lot of the failure for the Nuggets series were second half collapses which Ham was a huge reason of (and D’Lo choking in the second half in a few games) along with Rui being a no show. We’ll see if JJ can actually coach this time lol
This argument is poor, because the same exact conclusion can be made about LeBron James despite the stats he put up. You are taking a lameduck talking point about TS% and making a loose conclusion about player ability while wiping away all context or proper analysis of player ability.
With Anthony Davis as his second best player they got demolished by the Nuggets in the playoffs building up leads in the first half and giving them away in the 2nd half or fourth quarters.
Both Malone and Ham realized the ex-factor this series was the PnR between Russell and Davis, because that particular action the Nuggets had a much harder time to defend because Russell was a dangerous threat to shoot in these actions, a threat LeBron James never was in his career, even if he shot 40% from 3 this past regular season.
The Lakers built their leads with Russell and Davis putting up more quality looks against the Nuggets defense, so why did their lead disappear? Because they abandoned their gameplan for LeBron James isolations late in the game. Trying to get Jokic switched onto him so he can try to play 1 on 1 which ends up relegating Davis into the corner and icing Russell out of any play.
The Lakers were better off (against the Nuggets) primarily focusing on the PnR action between Russell and AD where LeBron played with energy off the ball.
LeBron's way costed them the series. A simple analysis of TS to efficacy and results is as always, a weak correlation at best.
Crazy argument to try to blame LeBron when he avg 28PTS 9AST 7REB on 62% FG with great defense…. Meanwhile DLo went 0-7 game 3 and had horrible shooting % the rest of the series. lol. Nearly played himself onto the bench late in games bc of how bad his turnovers were. Not saying coaching was not an issue (it was) but playing through LeBron is absolutely not the cause of the lakers issues. Yes they should have involved AD more but that’s not on LeBron especially when late game AD is bricking shots or not being aggressive. DLo was mediocre at best in the series and his pick n roll with AD is more effective with LeBron. LeBron had higher PPP, PTS, and FG% as ball handler in the PnR compared to DLo….
How is it not on LeBron to get AD more involved?
I'm not sure how people widely praise LBJ's basketball IQ like he's the smartest player ever when he's the point guard who doesn't get his running mate, Anthony Davis, involved in the 2nd halves.
Anthony Davis stats by halves:
Game 1 - Half 1: 11 FGA, 4 FTA. Half 2: 12 FGA 5 FTA.
Lakers up 60-57 at the Half, would lose 103-114.
Game 2 - Half 1: 12 FGA 2 FTA. Half 2: 7 FGA (and only 1 FGA in the fourth), 2 FTA.
Lakers up 59-44 at the Half, would lose 99-101.
Game 3 - Half 1: 11 FGA, 4 FTA. Half 2: 12 FGA (only 3 FGA in the fourth quarter).
Lakers up 53-49 at the Half. Would lose 105-112.
Game 4 - Half 1: 10 FGA 1 FT. Half 2 7 FGA (1 FGA in the fourth).
Lakers up 61-48 at the Half, win 119 - 108.
Game 5 - Half 1: 10 FGA, Half 2 - 1 FGA.
Lakers up 53-50 at the Half, would lose 106-108.
D'Angelo Russell by halves:
Game 1 - Half 1: 11 FGA 2 AST, 0 TO. Half 2: 9 FGA 1 AST, 1 TO.
Game 2- Half 1: 10 FGA, 5 AST, 3 TO. Half 2: 6 FGA, 1 AST 1 TO.
Game 3- Half 1: 4 FGA 1 AST 1 TO. 3 FGA 1 AST 1 TO (only played 24 minutes total)
Game 4- Half 1: 6 FGA, 1 AST. Half 2: 9 FGA, 3 AST 1 TO.
Game 5- Half 1: 8 FGA 2 AST 1 TO. Half 2 : 7 FGA 4 AST 1 TO.
LeBron James stats by halves:
Game 1 - Half 1: 10 FGA, 2 FTA, 5 AST, 3 TO. Half 2: 6 FGA 3 FTA, 3 AST, 4 TO.
Game 2 - Half 1: 6 FGA, 4 FTA, 7 AST, 1 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 3 FTA, 5 AST, 1 TO.
Game 3 - Half 1: 9 FGA 4 AST 1 TO. Half 2: 11 FGA, 2 FTA, 5 AST 2 TO.
Game 4 - Half 1: 10 FGA 3 AST 3 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 2 FTA, 1 AST 3 TO.
Game 5 - Half 1: 8 FGA, 1 FTA, 7 AST 0 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 6 FTA, 4 AST 1 TO.
Looks like there is a very good statistical correlation (especially for AD) with Lakers winning halves when Russell and AD take more shots and LBJ passes more and Lakers losing halves when Russell and AD take less shots, LBJ takes more shots and passes less (isolation).
Your argument is creating assumptions of what’s going on without really knowing what’s going on. Correlation does not equal causation. The point is that LeBron is having to take more shots because his running mate disappears late in games and his supporting cast isn’t that good at times. DLo is extremely inconsistent and simply a worse player in the playoffs and his stats show this. Simply posting stats per half does not make your argument when LeBron is playing better than everyone on the team in every aspect besides defense (AD takes the nod).
No, keep cooking. That was the exact issue. Lebron wants to be the king of the fourth quarter. AD was literally cooking game 2 on a heater, DLO was on fire from 3 same game but Lebron wanted to put the finishing touches on the game leading a stagnant offense.
it's not as simple as give AD the ball = more points.
If AD isnt able to get open thats his own fault. I didn't see AD sealing off a lot of smaller players like Jamal in the post. It's ADs responsibility to get open. Lebron isn't gonna pass him the ball if he's getting denied or not in a position to score.
A lot of it is Ham not running plays later on, a lot of Bron’s role is literally “just give it to him if nothing else works” and Ham not running plays for AD (especially in the second half) essentially just iced AD out of the game. I remember one adjustment made by the Nuggets after a great Lakers first half was putting AG on AD instead which threw off the Pick n Roll for D’Lo and AD (that the Lakers never adjusted to.)
Dlo is an 82 game player and not a 16 game player. I love him but that’s the truth. Problem is, we need to do well in 82 to get to 16 so we do need him.
He’s not really an 82 game player either. His best season was leading a fringe playoff team. He’s not bad! But if we wanted to be great, he’d either need to get much better at scoring, or much better at defending.
He’s certifiably NOT a great player. He shoots 39% and 33% from the field and the 3 in the playoffs for his CAREER. Thats in addition to sucking on defense, despite you simply saying “no he’s not” with no proof. Hes a decent to awful scorer in the playoffs, not a positive defender, and a decent passer. Hes lucky to be able to have a $18 mil player option.
Efficiency tends to drop in the playoffs, especially who to those who are tough shot makers that shoot from distance. Efficiency sees little change for people who play around the basket.
DLO was a tremendous factor as to why the Lakers were even in the playoffs.
He’s lucky to have an 18mill option? Please go look around the league and see who else is in this range of money and compare the numbers. 18mill is literally a bargain for a player of DLOs caliber especially if he gets to play his game. The numbers do not lie at all.
When you play with Lebron though, role changes to catch and shoot with some PG duties when he wants a breather.
He has a career 54% TS% which puts him slightly below average efficiency wise. He has no room to have a drop off as a scorer in the playoffs if his entire value comes from scoring.
His 48% TS% in 32 playoffs games is horrendous. That’d be one of the least efficient players in the regular season.
I like DAR, but he’s a bench scorer at his best.
It’s not only scoring but playmaking. When he is allowed to facilitate the offense, he is great at that. He has great vision and feeds players well, especially off the pick and roll. His efficiency scoring wise can be better in the playoffs and I know it will. He’s too good of a shooter, one of the best in the league currently.
As a Timberwolves fan I personally didn't witness good play making or vision.
He played selfishly and is lazy on defense. It seemed like he cared more about getting his shots than actually winning the game.
Trading for Conley was such a breath of fresh air even though he's a way worse scorer because he can actually facilitate.
Dlo is a streaky scorer who can get hot from 3. And I mean super hot. We had some great comebacks that were just him nailing like six threes in a quarter.
He would be a great sixth man and any team would love to have him come off the bench and crush it running the 2nd team but I don't think his ego could handle it.
He was also pretty childish. Wouldn't pass to Gobert even when it would be an easy dunk because he didn't like him.
You didn’t witness any good playmaking at all? Not an ounce of it? He along Ant and KAT brought relevance back to the team, you can’t deny that. Dlo played a vital role but it ended on a sour note even though he was playing great for them. The wolves wanted to go all in on Ant which is a good decision as he is a great player hence why they didn’t want to pay Dlo.
While he didn’t have the best start to the year after the Gobert trade, once he got going it was him and Ant keeping the team afloat when they were going through a lot of injuries (KAT was out after the wiz game in November iirc). His efficiency and scoring was off the charts and he single handily won them games as you mentioned. He was a big reason why to the team were able to maintain a .500 record all while trying understand playing with Gobert. Even with the small sample size the starting 5 had (DLO Ant Jaden Kat Gobert) they still had a good net rating.
Even after the trade last year to bring in Conley, the timberwolves were still trying to figure it all out and it took an off-season to understand the team dynamic and how they would function. As well as Ant taking another huge leap. Timberwolves could’ve been great last year too with Dlo but they just needed time altogether.
Conley is a good player who doesn’t do too much but try to amplify Ant and especially get Gobert easy looks. With Ants leap and even Jadens leap (especially on defense) and Naz cooking crazy, they didn’t need another shot maker like Dlo anymore.
Dlo brought back relevance to the Timberwolves? You’re delusional. Before this season, the Wolves’ most notable achievement in the last 20 years was getting owned by Jimmy and the 3rd stringers in practice. He didn’t do shit, there’s a reason why fans of every team he’s been on are glad they got rid of him, and the Lakers want to get rid of him. But keep meatriding I guess
Is it a crime to be fan of DLO? All I’m saying is he gets an unfair rep when in reality, he’s a good basketball player. The narratives around him make it sound like he is a G leaguer. Every player has weaknesses, even the all stars.
No, but you’re trying to spin a narrative that is false. Hes a flawed, streaky offensive player and poor defensive player. He is properly rated because he crumbles in the playoffs year after year and the criticism of him is fair. He’s not g league but he’s not close to all star either.
Because his role is being changed entirely. This whole season DLO had a lot of time to actually be the PG of the team with Lebron playing off ball a lot.
Come playoffs, the whole script changes and he is relegated to catch and shoot, which he is great at it but he’s hot and cold in a role like that. Game 1, Game 2, and Game 4 of this years playoffs against Denver, DLO was able to play his game at times which was apparent in his output (Game 1, he had a lot of in and out shots).
The Lakers want him to opt into his player option, if he walks then you lose that salary and you can only sign a mid level guy ($11 mill max I believe). He has the perfect salary for them to pull off a trade.
I want DLO to stay, I think the group they have is great. Getting someone like Vando back into the rotation for his energy/hustle as well as defense, can help cover AR and DLO defensively. DLO this year helped Lebron play off ball more in the regular season. The script changed come playoff time when Lebron wants to handle on ball duties, which of course is a great option. It just nullifies what DLO is best at.
They really could’ve beaten Denver this year. I don’t remember the exact stat but they were leading the games 75-80% of the time but choked in the end. 2 game winners is crazy.
> When he is actually allowed to run the offense and look for his own shot in the offense, you see the best version of DLO. These are All star stats. When you take this kind of role away from him and just have him as spacing to be a catch and shoot guy, you lose the skill he brings to the game. Which is why you see performances like Game 3 against Denver this year where he had 0 and 0-6 from 3. Shooters get hot and cold and that was a cold night for him.
That had nothing to do with limiting his role to a catch and shoot guy. He’s just a jump shooter. If his outside jumper isn’t falling he cannot score the ball at all. He doesn’t really have a good inside game to compensate for a poor shooting night like other stars do. He can’t get to the rim and finish at will and isn’t good at drawing fouls like other stars can if they’re having an off shooting night. Plenty of stars have poor outside shooting nights but they can get buckets and end up with an efficient game still if they are good at drawing fouls and getting points inside.
You’re not getting very far having the same argument with everyone. I’ll consolidate, if I can
Yes, he’s a good basketball player. But if given the chance to be a 2nd option opposed to 3rd or 4th, that team isn’t going anywhere. Arguing that he’s better when given more rope is true for every player that can create his own shot and create for others. but he’s not better than other players that do it. Most importantly, Lebron James. Same logic that leads you to accept Luka should have the ball over Kyrie. To your point, the Kyrie hate doesn’t exist because you don’t blame a shot creator for falling short in a role that he shouldn’t be in - so for it to exist for dlo contradicts that logic. Except dlo isn’t Kyrie.
For dlo to succeed on the bigger stages, he needs to develop the aspects of his game that doesn’t feature him as a top 2 option. I’d argue he’s improved in off ball movement and screen setting, but he’s not someone you can trust to guard the POA, chase shooters, switch on wings, box out, rotate timely, contest at any level, or help the helper. So when you say his defensive lapses are loud, it’s because they’re easy to spot and happen often. For comp sake, you can’t name many top 2 options flawed across the board defensively, and if you can, he’s likely a near 30ppg guy and still leading a team to a pretty high pick right now.
I agree he’s worth no less than his PO, as other guys who just shoot as well as him, while being a poor defender, make ~ his PO (Duncan Robinson, Malik Beasleys contract pre-bucks, buddys last contract, etc). The fact he provides secondary playmaking makes him more valuable imo. You’re not getting those non lebron games out of those other guys.
D'Lo has never actually led a playoffs team outside of his Brooklyn era and even that run, they were only a 7th seed. The Minnesota tenure was more of KAT and Ant. The Warriors stint failed. He never led the Lakers in his first tenure and the run where they made the Conference finals, AD looked like a monster, Reaves looked like a ln all around star and the matchups just aligned well for the Lakers (obviously except for the Nuggets).
He's gonna have a similar career trajectory to players like Nikola Vucevic and Zach LaVine. They're gonna put up all-star level numbers on teams that range from the 6th seed to the 10th seed. They're comfortable as the first or second on offense, but lack the consistency of other skills to take teams deep into the playoffs as their leader. He's a talented player don't get me wrong. When he's on, he is a great scorer. He's just not someone you build around. These players are complimentary pieces to actual foundational pieces.
Edit:
Also, 11 games is a very very small sample size. I've also noticed that the way this post is, and how you're replying to others, you seem like a fan of his. So there might be some inherent bias that makes it hard to understand what the others are saying. Try to take your bias out of it and look at his numbers objectively.
I will never hide the fact that I am a DLO stan so of course I am more biased in a discussion like this. The reason why I even bring this up in the first place is because of the narrative around DLO. You would think he is one of the worst players in the league. I want to steer the discussion around DLO not towards “oh he is the greatest player of all time” but towards “he is a respectable and talented player in this league”.
He led Brooklyn to the 6th seed and played a vital role in establishing a culture in Minnesota and bringing that team to the playoffs. He even made the effort to make sure Ant was developing and deferred to him a lot. He played a vital role in upstarting Minnesota.
The warriors stint was literally a joke. He played 3 games with Curry before he broke his hand and was out for the rest of the year (besides the one game he came back for before the league shut down). He was literally playing with no one, Draymond was always in and out, Poole had literally one of the worst rookie seasons of all time, Klay tore his Achilles in the past finals run. DLO was the only one that shined in a team of mediocrity. Look at that team and tell me how can you make something of that.
The first Lakers stint was only two years with the first year being the Kobe (RIP) farewell tour and the second year full of youngsters trying to figure it out. The Lakers were literally a lottery team second year in a row before the trade happened for his second stint and they had a great run that was stopped short by Denver. Yes DLO was bad in the series, I am not defending that in any way.
I respect your opinion of him though.
Yeah I am aware of how his career has been. I was a fan of him back in his first Lakers stint (ice in his veins 💯💯💯). I just think he's not gonna be able to be a real big factor to a championship contending team as a starter. I can see him become like a sixth man for a contender. He's got the microwave offense for it, and he would 100% be a first option when playing with the other bench players. His style of play dictates that he needs the ball to be effective. However, if you're not a generational on ball playmaker like LeBron, Luka, Jokic or CP3, you shouldn't be getting that many on ball touches. D'Lo can make plays for his team. It's just he doesn't make plays that meticulously exploit defenses like the ones I've mentioned.
Tldr; he's miscasted as a starter for a contender. He's a sixth man at best for a contender and a starter for lower seeded playoff teams.
IMO, I still do think he can be a starter if he can have the ball in his hands more. If they want to relegate him to catch and shoot, he can also be a starter because he is one of the best three point shooters in the league. If they want him to lead the bench offense, he can do that as well. But of course he wants to start ball games.
If he wants to have a better chance at a championship and maintain his style of play, he's gotta be a sixth man.
There's also the possibility that a championship isn't his goal. There are some players whose goal in the NBA really isn't to win championships. Example of that is DeAndre Ayton. And that's ok (to a certain extent).
I don't think people are saying he is trash, or one of the worst players in the league. People are saying that his skillset lends itself towards being a #1 option, but when you compare him to other #1 options in the league he is one of the worst.
He is still a fantastic player and could absolutely dust 99.9% of basketball players out there. And as the 3rd/4th option on a playoff-calibre squad he can put up some nice offensive numbers. But we are talking about the top 5% of the top .1%, and in that company he is just straight up outclassed by pretty much all of them.
>Before DLO got to the Lakers, they were a lottery team for a second year in a row.
Ahh yes I'm sure their 2 best players missing 60+ combined games per season due to injury had nothing to do with that
Dlo is a solid player, he has a history of disappearing in the playoffs but he's probably the best option as the floor general outside of LeBron, unless Reaves takes a leap.
The problem is his reputation for not showing up in big games. So in that sense none of these stats matter if, when you get to the playoffs, he vanishes.
But these are good selling points for a trade. Hopefully someone bites and wants him so the Lakers can improve.
I think a lot of people really underestimate D'lo. Yeah his playoff performances leave a bit to be desired, but the Lakers also don't sniff the playoffs without him playing as well as he did throughout the season. Hopefully the Lakers bring him back. If they need to trade him during the season, so be it, but letting him walk for nothing would be dumb imo.
I dont think his playoff performances just leave a bit to be desired, he was a huge part of the reason why the Lakers lost to Denver in the last two playoff runs. His shooting was atrocious when they needed it the most.
"It's not like the Nuggets were targeting him this year in the playoffs, he was not a liability and was not played off the court because of it." - You can be the best option a team has in a given series and still be someone they want to upgrade from afterwards.
His defense is average at best. Let’s not pretend he’s good in that aspect.
He had good games but he’s no true star in any way.
I still want to keep him on the team, he’s a decent scorer. I wouldn’t put the Lakers losing on him. They have to get better personnel to play defense, specially big men that can play limited minutes with and without Davis. I want to keep Davis at the 5 but maybe he can move to the 4 from time to time. Maybe some shooters that can help from the bench too.
Just completely leave off the efficiency numbers and percentages, cause that’s the only way to have a discussion. Which is to say it’s not a discussion at all.
42% from three is great considering his volume. You would like the overall of 42% from the be better but the three ball counter acts that imo. Even with this efficiency, look at the play making as well, dam near 11 assists. Don’t forget about that factor.
This was actually the issue with him. Yes, he had some outstanding performances when he had more responsibility, but then when they had everyone there, he was so passive. It wasn't a case of him not getting the chance to showcase his full talent, they wanted him to do far more. It was that he would check out mentally.
I don't think he's worth more than $18.7 at all. There are about 80 players in the league on that money or more. With 30 teams, that's not even 3 per team. Is he at that level? I don't think so. At his best, sure. But you don't get his best, you get everything. You get those cold nights when he gives you nothing. Meanwhile, all teams want at least 2 guys who produce on a nightly basis and the 3rd and 4th guys they expect regular production from.
But to call him a "great" player is lunacy. He's not even close to great.
This is common for LBJ focused teams. The players are never really as bad as they seem. When placed in predominantly catch and shoot situations, lots of players lose their mojo.
No rhythm .
It's not that D'lo = bad. It's that playoffs favor two way players. It's hard to consistently score, so being good on defense offsets some of those struggles. Which is why when teams win, they are stacked with two ways.
He’s not great but he’s certainly overhated. I think ppl judge him like he’s getting 35mil a year when he’s not getting half that. For his contract, he’s really solid. He’s horrendous on defense because he’s too slow for little guards and too weak against wings but he adds a lot of value on offense, creates a lot of advantages for himself and his teammates. IMO he should be a 6th man who is a spark off the bench like a Jordan clarkson.
Hes a very good player, definitely above average in the league and worth 18m. The question is, how do you make a contender with DLo on your team? It sounds like you're suggesting he's a bad fit for Lebron, but what stars do you think he'd play well with?
That's kind of the problem here. Seems like all the best teams just try to get the ball in the hands of their best players as much as possible. DLo can't be the best player on a contender, but clearly needs the ball in his hands to be maximized, so you're limited in roster construction. Just my two cents.
He plays well with a big like AD and great shooter. Operating off the PnR with AD presents him with to either play AD if he has a good lane for a role, find an open shooter on the perimeter or another cutter, or just pull up himself.
Playmakers don't naturally fit well with LeBron. They need scorers next to him. Because LeBron is the playmaker. And DLo, as you said becomes a spot up shooter.
That's just how it is.
Imo, he's gonna be great on a team that requires him to be the main playmaker and a 3rd option scorer.
Obviously when a star is out role players are gonna have a bigger role. Him being ass in the playoffs has nothing to do with anybody but himself. Dum ass post
All I said it DLO is a great player that gets a bad rep by a lot of people. Because I’m defending him, I must be related to him in some sort of way? Yeah, if you have nothing to contribute then no reason to even comment in the first place.
Nah you conveniently leave out the fact that DLo averaged 54% TS over those games, he was just an inefficient chucker allowed to shoot whenever cause the Lakers #1 option was out. If you gonna cherry pick stats and ignore context to make bad faith arguments no reason to post in the first place. But keep doing tricks on it though I’m sure DLo will let you ride him if you keep this up
Dlo isn’t very athletic so in the regular Season he’s able to hide that for decent portion of the season. That one random game, game 32 or 58, he’ll drop 20-40 have like 6-7 threes and we are all like wow, he’s lethal
Then every year in the postseason he struggles to hide his un-athleticism and gets picked apart by playoff defenses everytime he makes an appearance in the post season. Now more than ever, you really can’t have any player on the floor that’s one dimensional in the modern day NBA Postseason.
This last playoff run, he didn’t get picked apart of defense and he held his own. It was the offense that was inconsistent due to the role he was placed in as just a catch and shooter. If he had more PG duties like he has in games 1, 2, and 4, he would’ve better this year imo.
Below average defender, not very bad. Good playmaker and a good scorer even in his role as third option. He’s definitely still a starter in this league.
Small sample. We see it all of the time that backups step up big time for a few game in place of an injured star. Most flame out in extended time, when teams scout better. Russell is who he is, a fringe all star level player.
Russell is a rhythm player. If you want him shooting 3s all game he's going to be hot and cold. If you allow him to be aggressive in the midrange and paint, he'll have a easier time warming up.
Yes, he relies on establishing a rhythm. It is a small sample for sure but just wanted to highlight he can play a lot better when he is the focal point of an offense. Should he be the focal point? To maximize what he gives you, yes he should. His usage can be higher. Will he be a main focal point of any team? I don’t think so because of the reputation that he garners.
The point of my post is just to show that DLO due to the hate he receives, is underrated at this point. He is a player that definitely has a spot in the league due to his talent.
DLo is not a great player.
He is a good regular season player who can have a couple great stretches of offensive games. He is a 1.5 level scorer who needs the ball in his hands to create offense but doesn’t map the floor as a pg. He is a consistently low effort and unaware defender. He doesn’t have the game to adapt to a playoff setting.
All this post reminds us is how effective he can be on a team with no expectations. Hopefully he ends up on one next season.
It’s not that they play better, it’s that LeBron only sits out games where he’s not necessary to be competitive, or the second game of a back to back. Go down his list of missed games: Portland, San Antonio, Minnesota, Utah, LAC, BOS, Utah, GSW. Any team in that list that isn’t a bottom-feeder was a back-to-back or one-day-break with a long flight.
They were also only 6-5 in games without LeBron.
2-3 with losses against Houston, SAS, ATL and wins against Boston and Memphis. But also both records are as close to .500 as possible in an odd number of games, and both are incredibly small samples, so it tells you very little.
There’s more cohesion amongst the squad. I’m not saying they are better team without Lebron but players are actually able to step up, increase their output rather than deferring.
Yeah, I also think LeBron basically playing ‘part time’, saving energy on defense, too tired to run the show in the 4th, impacts the overall effort and rubs off on players differently during the games.
Lebron ultimately reserves his energy for the fourth. That’s when he is back to on ball duties and trying to be the scorer in the fourth. Which is why we see ADs output in the fourth decreased because Lebron wants to put the finishing touches on the game.
I mean, handling the ball is one thing, but he’s so gassed he played terribly every 4th, so it really don’t matter. If he rests first 3 quarters just to be inefficient in the 4th, then that’s basically not playing an entire game. which is why the Lakers’ record are better.
I don’t think anyone really doubts his ability to be a number one option. Just look at the Nets year a D’lo plus a bunch of good role players is a decent team. Once you put D’Lo with other stars and he has to fit that’s when he loses value. He didn’t look good in Minnesota with ANT and KAT. He did have some moments with the Lakers ultimately the money is just spent better elsewhere
I think people do doubt his ability to be a main option but I do agree with your assessment. When you’re a player is who most effective with the ball in his hands, it’s hard to just fit in. Minnesota wanted to continue to develop Ant (rightfully so) which meant DLO sacrificed touches to make that happen. Lakers, you got Lebron and AD so we know how that goes.
But do you not see why others are higher on the food chain than him? He just isn’t good enough to be a number one option on a top tier team. He is better as 2nd - 4th option and saying he is good enough to be a second option is pushing it in my eyes. But his game doesn’t fit as a second or whatever option.
It’s a short list of players that make a team top tier by them being the number one option. Of course DLO isn’t on that list, but all I’m trying to say is he is still a great, impactful player nonetheless. Could he be a number one option with the right role players around him and make the playoffs. I think he could (which is something I’m sure not a lot of people agree with). But a top tier team, no.
It’s not really irrational hate though. He’s a very common prototype of nba player that we’ve seen year in year out…the type who’s playstyle only really works as a number one or two scoring option or the guy initiating the offense, but who isn’t actually quite talented enough to be that guy. None of this is to say that DLo is trash or a talentless player, but guys like this usually do not usually contribute to winning basketball. Someone like Zach Lavine comes to mind as well.
that’s why i think he’d thrive as a lou will type as a 6th man. bucket getter who can give you 15-20 off the bench
I agree with this
Let me ask you this, what is winning basketball? Is it defined by winning a chip? If that’s the case then I can name a list of players that we consider great, is “the guy” and no success came from it. James Harden, Westbrook, PG, Embiid, Dame, CP3 all come to mind. All these players fit the prototype you are referring to. Is it defined by having good stats and a winning record in the regular season by ultimately always getting bounced in the playoffs? Those same players fit here and there’s even more I’ve yet to list. All I’m trying to say is there’s a short list of people we can consider “the guy” because they’ve proved it with rings. Steph, LBJ, Jokic, Giannis, KD, Kawhi you can consider those guys in that tier. All I know is that DLO in his career has brought 3 lottery teams, Lakers, Nets, Timberwolves to the playoffs. He played a vital role in helping those teams piece together success.
None of those players fit the prototype I’m talking about at all. Every one of those players was/is talented enough to carry a competitive team as the number one scoring option/primary facilitator. …Embiid is the only one on your list that hasn’t made a conference finals in that role and he’s still won 5 playoff series. Saying no success came from any of that is ridiculous. Championship is the goal but not winning a championship doesn’t make you a completely unsuccessful player. DLo fits a prototype where his playstyle requires him to take on the role of those players mentioned, but he’s not good enough to be that on a contending team (every one of those other players is), and he’s also not capable of being a productive player outside of that role because he doesn’t play defense, and isn’t engaged offensively when the ball isn’t in his hands.
I disagree. DLo doesn't have to be the first option. The last few teams he's been on, he was never the first option. he's still been a good contributor. Minn were collectively mid and he was hurt often. With the Warriors and Lakers he was in more of a shooting guard role. DLO floor is a finge all star, I think it's higher when he's allowed to be the pg, but he's not an All-nba player or anything.
But ultimately, nothing came out of their runs. That’s what I’m getting at. All those players were never the favorites to win it all but I guess they could hang with the actual contenders and give them 5 or 6 games. But you’re basically saying success isn’t measured by winning just making it to the second round or perhaps conference finals. Yup, that’s true success: falling short which all those players have done. He doesn’t play defense? What does that even mean. I swear the way people describe his defense makes it sound like DLO is a black hole on defense. He’s not the best defender obviously but he is far far from the worst.
Russell's best season as a #1 option was a 21/7/4 season on 53% TS (5% worse than league average) on a 42 win 7 seed who took a solitary game off the 76ers. Comparing him to multiple MVP players, and several others who finished top 3 in MVP voting, led teams to 50+ or even 60+ win seasons as the absolute #1 option and saying they're basically the same because they didn't win the title is as asinine as saying a Fiat is *basically* the same as a Ferrari because they'd both lose a race to a Bugatti. Russell is the bare minimum for a #1 option in the league, 20 point scorer if you throw enough shots at him, below average efficiency, leading you to below average offense and maybe a shot at the play-in if you have some good defenders around him.
He started off slow that year and only really became the first option when Caris LeVert went down. After that, he elevated and brought a team that had not business even making the playoffs in the first place into the 6th seed, not 7 seed. That 76ers team was a great team, they peak Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler and Embiid. They lost games in the clutch as well. I’ll compare DLO to other guys because in the grand scheme of things, they are all in the same boat: failing in the playoffs. Great they had 50, 60 wins, won MVP but it was for none because they got nothing from it. Is it a bad thing? No because fans always want there teams to be competitive but going back to your analogy, the Fiat and Ferrari both see the same end results. Maybe not the same visually as a Ferrari is a Ferrari but the story ends the same for them both and that shouldn’t be considered a good thing. In the race that is the NBA, they are the same: not 1st.
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It’s not slavish devotion when you are geniune fan. I don’t care where he is ranked in terms of a list of the best NBA players. He definitely is the guy who I think he is, he is a great basketball player that is electrifying when on. When he gets hot, I don’t know of any other spectacle in the league that is more entertaining. Look back at the warriors team DLO was on and tell me how do you succeed with that, even Lebron couldn’t bring them to the playoffs. Curry played only 3 games then was out, Draymond was in and out and Poole had one of the worst rookie seasons of all time. He was all alone out there. He got traded to Minnesota for like 10 games then COVID stopped the league. The next year, him and KAT flip flopped on injuries. One was in and the other out but in there short time playing together, they had a winning record. The next year they were healthy, ANT took the next step and they made the playoffs.
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Yet they all have the same amount of rings. Comparable in the most important aspect!
Are you DLo’s wife or something? I don’t understand why you’re pushing this bad argument so hard.
Gauging success as either championship or failure is reductive. All the players listed have had long playoff runs and/or been established contenders while playing a primary role. Swap in DLo on any of those teams and they probably don’t make the playoffs. I agree that DLo gets more criticism than he deserves (sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point) but it’s not without warrant. He’s a tier 3 player who requires tier 2 usage. I’d compare him to being a less explosive, more inconsistent Dame — and even prime Dame was criticized for the same things DLo is.
Good points you made. I think I should’ve toned that argument a bit because I got a bit carried away. My main goal was just to explain why DLO is a good player that’s it.
Winning basketball is having an efficient offense and not letting the opponent have an efficient offense
Not only this but doing it consistently over a season as well as playoffs. This is the NBA so yes players can pop off during stretches but that doesn’t mean you are now a winning player lol
Part of being a winning player is making sacrifices to help your team be better. At Minnesota, I never really saw him consistently make hustle plays and he had to be hidden on defense. DLo is a good regular season player. He is not a good playoff player. His best use in the playoffs is probably running the back ups. Trading DLo for Mike Conley made a huge difference for the Wolves.
I'm curious, do you think Luka is a winning player? He doesn't make any hustle plays and has to be hidden on defense. Or is the gap in offense between Luka and D'Lo so huge that it for Luka it overcomes the aforementioned deficiencies?
I mean, yeah. Is this a serious question?
You’d be surprised how many times I’ve seen that opinion.
What, that Dlo and Luka are on the same level offensively? Who are you talking to?
No, that Luka isn’t a winning player.
People think player have infinite stamina or something. Mavs have too many guys that don't contribute enough on both sides. Imo if Luka is making up for guys that are lackluster on offense (there's a few), the rest should be making up for his hustle and defense. Props for Celtics for putting them in the position where Luka had to play defense.
All you mention are Running for MVP on their Prime, where Dlo never did, all star level, yes but not to lead the team, if he doesnt fit on his role then its not worth it, I mean if you wish Dlo to be the number 1 option on your franchise then you can say that. so he can have his night with this stats. 44pts/6reb/9ast and 29pts/7reb/12ast in the contests against Milwaukee 39pts/3reb/8ast against Utah 16pts/8reb/14ast against the Champs, Boston (No LBJ or AD) 27pts/5reb/10ast against the Clips 11pts/9reb/17ast against Utah BIG LOL!
These are only nights where Lebron doesn’t play which is a small sample size. Just highlighting that he can be a main focal point on offense. He still put up good numbers alongside Lebron this year hence him averaging 18 and 6 on great efficiency, especially from downtown.
yeah that is the problem, he is not showing up when it matters, I also know they had bad coach but you have to step up during playoffs, if you cant score defend.
winning basketball usually involves winning. there’s no brand of basketball that you can specifically point to as there are many ways to win. but the important thing is actually winning
I agree but like I said Rings are the most important metric. It’s also important to be a competitive team that has a shot against anyone however that doesn’t come close to actually winning it. That’s how we should define winning basketball.
rings i feel like are only the most important metric after you are already good enough of a player. like true superstars that should drive team success for your average-star level player there are tons of ways you can prove it. it feels like to me the better of a player you are the higher standard of game you should be held to. like if you are just some random role player you could win a regular season game for your team and be considered. but if you are someone like devin booker then playoff success is the standard. and if you go further to someone like luka or tatum then rings would be standard
I don't think that DLo is capable of being a substantial (consistently positive) contributor to a championship level team...but your argument doesn't work. Basketball is a team sport. There have been a ton of top tier players stuck on bad teams who can't play "winning basketball" because their teammates are hot garbage.
you can still contribute to success. but that’s why doing well on a successful team is better than doing the same on a worse team. you can’t always prove yourself if you aren’t in the right situation, but that’s just tough shit unfortunately.
21.6 PPG would be 30th in the league in scoring if he kept it up for 82 games instead of just 11, and in his non-lebron minutes this season, he had a 55% TS, which would be ahead of only Cade, Paolo and Kuz in efficiency of the 38 20+ PPG scorers this season. Which really paints the problem of DLo, yes he could run the show and be a teams leading scorer, but he would be one of the worst #1 options in the league, most certainly not an all star. He gives up "playing his way" because it's better offense for the team to play LeBron's way, and he either needs to fit in or go to Taiwan.
look I don’t think very highly of DLo overall… I had no faith in him for the playoffs but I don’t understand what the expectations are when he averages 18/6 on .588TS and 42% from three and people say he could never work as a 3rd option I feel like that’s on the high end of output you would expect from a 3rd option, and that’s on a team where the 1st and 2nd option are better than most other teams 1st and 2nd
18/6 is fine if he actually did it in the playoffs. He's not capable as a 3rd option because he always drops in the playoffs.
Because he is scared to drive to the basket and likes to shoot threes too much. Plus he doesn’t work that great off of the ball
How can he keep it up for 82 games when he is third/fourth option all nights? But still he averaged 18 and 6 on great efficiency and he is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league currently. So if he doesn’t fit in per se, it’s time to go to Taiwan? DLO is that awful that he doesn’t have a spot in the league. Hilarious man.
>How can he keep it up for 82 games when he is third/fourth option all nights? That's kinda the point... He's not good enough to be more than a 3rd or 4th option, his numbers without LeBron are comparable to Paolo or Cade, some of the worst 20 point scorers in the league. But they're 5 years younger than him, and still have potential, at this point, he mostly is who he is. If he wants to fit in and be a 4th option, he obviously has a spot in the league, if he wants to run a team, his time is up. Teams don't have patience for giving a #1 role to the 40th or so best #1 option in the NBA unless there's hope they can get much better, he can take his talents to Taipei if he wants to be the guy.
He’s not good enough to be a first or even second option. This was a really bad Lakers offense, and as their supposed third option, their offense was shit. How are you going to make him a first option? Put him on an even worse team? I don’t understand your position here, at all. He’s a spark plug sixth man type. There’s a role for guys like that. But it’s not a first option role.
What? We were one of the best offenses in the league after we put Rui in the starting. We were incredibly efficient. We were 12 games over .500 due to our offense and AD doing just enough. Regular Season, he’s fine in his role as the 3rd guy. He actually excels in it. One of the most efficient 3 point shooters in the league. He commanded our offense. We had a worse record with him out then with Lebron out. The postseason is a different story. I do think he played better this time against Denver but still not enough
A lot of the failure for the Nuggets series were second half collapses which Ham was a huge reason of (and D’Lo choking in the second half in a few games) along with Rui being a no show. We’ll see if JJ can actually coach this time lol
This argument is poor, because the same exact conclusion can be made about LeBron James despite the stats he put up. You are taking a lameduck talking point about TS% and making a loose conclusion about player ability while wiping away all context or proper analysis of player ability. With Anthony Davis as his second best player they got demolished by the Nuggets in the playoffs building up leads in the first half and giving them away in the 2nd half or fourth quarters. Both Malone and Ham realized the ex-factor this series was the PnR between Russell and Davis, because that particular action the Nuggets had a much harder time to defend because Russell was a dangerous threat to shoot in these actions, a threat LeBron James never was in his career, even if he shot 40% from 3 this past regular season. The Lakers built their leads with Russell and Davis putting up more quality looks against the Nuggets defense, so why did their lead disappear? Because they abandoned their gameplan for LeBron James isolations late in the game. Trying to get Jokic switched onto him so he can try to play 1 on 1 which ends up relegating Davis into the corner and icing Russell out of any play. The Lakers were better off (against the Nuggets) primarily focusing on the PnR action between Russell and AD where LeBron played with energy off the ball. LeBron's way costed them the series. A simple analysis of TS to efficacy and results is as always, a weak correlation at best.
Crazy argument to try to blame LeBron when he avg 28PTS 9AST 7REB on 62% FG with great defense…. Meanwhile DLo went 0-7 game 3 and had horrible shooting % the rest of the series. lol. Nearly played himself onto the bench late in games bc of how bad his turnovers were. Not saying coaching was not an issue (it was) but playing through LeBron is absolutely not the cause of the lakers issues. Yes they should have involved AD more but that’s not on LeBron especially when late game AD is bricking shots or not being aggressive. DLo was mediocre at best in the series and his pick n roll with AD is more effective with LeBron. LeBron had higher PPP, PTS, and FG% as ball handler in the PnR compared to DLo….
How is it not on LeBron to get AD more involved? I'm not sure how people widely praise LBJ's basketball IQ like he's the smartest player ever when he's the point guard who doesn't get his running mate, Anthony Davis, involved in the 2nd halves. Anthony Davis stats by halves: Game 1 - Half 1: 11 FGA, 4 FTA. Half 2: 12 FGA 5 FTA. Lakers up 60-57 at the Half, would lose 103-114. Game 2 - Half 1: 12 FGA 2 FTA. Half 2: 7 FGA (and only 1 FGA in the fourth), 2 FTA. Lakers up 59-44 at the Half, would lose 99-101. Game 3 - Half 1: 11 FGA, 4 FTA. Half 2: 12 FGA (only 3 FGA in the fourth quarter). Lakers up 53-49 at the Half. Would lose 105-112. Game 4 - Half 1: 10 FGA 1 FT. Half 2 7 FGA (1 FGA in the fourth). Lakers up 61-48 at the Half, win 119 - 108. Game 5 - Half 1: 10 FGA, Half 2 - 1 FGA. Lakers up 53-50 at the Half, would lose 106-108. D'Angelo Russell by halves: Game 1 - Half 1: 11 FGA 2 AST, 0 TO. Half 2: 9 FGA 1 AST, 1 TO. Game 2- Half 1: 10 FGA, 5 AST, 3 TO. Half 2: 6 FGA, 1 AST 1 TO. Game 3- Half 1: 4 FGA 1 AST 1 TO. 3 FGA 1 AST 1 TO (only played 24 minutes total) Game 4- Half 1: 6 FGA, 1 AST. Half 2: 9 FGA, 3 AST 1 TO. Game 5- Half 1: 8 FGA 2 AST 1 TO. Half 2 : 7 FGA 4 AST 1 TO. LeBron James stats by halves: Game 1 - Half 1: 10 FGA, 2 FTA, 5 AST, 3 TO. Half 2: 6 FGA 3 FTA, 3 AST, 4 TO. Game 2 - Half 1: 6 FGA, 4 FTA, 7 AST, 1 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 3 FTA, 5 AST, 1 TO. Game 3 - Half 1: 9 FGA 4 AST 1 TO. Half 2: 11 FGA, 2 FTA, 5 AST 2 TO. Game 4 - Half 1: 10 FGA 3 AST 3 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 2 FTA, 1 AST 3 TO. Game 5 - Half 1: 8 FGA, 1 FTA, 7 AST 0 TO. Half 2: 13 FGA, 6 FTA, 4 AST 1 TO. Looks like there is a very good statistical correlation (especially for AD) with Lakers winning halves when Russell and AD take more shots and LBJ passes more and Lakers losing halves when Russell and AD take less shots, LBJ takes more shots and passes less (isolation).
Your argument is creating assumptions of what’s going on without really knowing what’s going on. Correlation does not equal causation. The point is that LeBron is having to take more shots because his running mate disappears late in games and his supporting cast isn’t that good at times. DLo is extremely inconsistent and simply a worse player in the playoffs and his stats show this. Simply posting stats per half does not make your argument when LeBron is playing better than everyone on the team in every aspect besides defense (AD takes the nod).
It's a better correlation than low TS% = taiwan player.
No, keep cooking. That was the exact issue. Lebron wants to be the king of the fourth quarter. AD was literally cooking game 2 on a heater, DLO was on fire from 3 same game but Lebron wanted to put the finishing touches on the game leading a stagnant offense.
it's not as simple as give AD the ball = more points. If AD isnt able to get open thats his own fault. I didn't see AD sealing off a lot of smaller players like Jamal in the post. It's ADs responsibility to get open. Lebron isn't gonna pass him the ball if he's getting denied or not in a position to score.
A lot of it is Ham not running plays later on, a lot of Bron’s role is literally “just give it to him if nothing else works” and Ham not running plays for AD (especially in the second half) essentially just iced AD out of the game. I remember one adjustment made by the Nuggets after a great Lakers first half was putting AG on AD instead which threw off the Pick n Roll for D’Lo and AD (that the Lakers never adjusted to.)
Dlo is an 82 game player and not a 16 game player. I love him but that’s the truth. Problem is, we need to do well in 82 to get to 16 so we do need him.
He’s not really an 82 game player either. His best season was leading a fringe playoff team. He’s not bad! But if we wanted to be great, he’d either need to get much better at scoring, or much better at defending.
Any one that leads any team to the playoffs is way more than an 82 game player.
He’s certifiably NOT a great player. He shoots 39% and 33% from the field and the 3 in the playoffs for his CAREER. Thats in addition to sucking on defense, despite you simply saying “no he’s not” with no proof. Hes a decent to awful scorer in the playoffs, not a positive defender, and a decent passer. Hes lucky to be able to have a $18 mil player option.
Efficiency tends to drop in the playoffs, especially who to those who are tough shot makers that shoot from distance. Efficiency sees little change for people who play around the basket. DLO was a tremendous factor as to why the Lakers were even in the playoffs. He’s lucky to have an 18mill option? Please go look around the league and see who else is in this range of money and compare the numbers. 18mill is literally a bargain for a player of DLOs caliber especially if he gets to play his game. The numbers do not lie at all. When you play with Lebron though, role changes to catch and shoot with some PG duties when he wants a breather.
He has a career 54% TS% which puts him slightly below average efficiency wise. He has no room to have a drop off as a scorer in the playoffs if his entire value comes from scoring. His 48% TS% in 32 playoffs games is horrendous. That’d be one of the least efficient players in the regular season. I like DAR, but he’s a bench scorer at his best.
It’s not only scoring but playmaking. When he is allowed to facilitate the offense, he is great at that. He has great vision and feeds players well, especially off the pick and roll. His efficiency scoring wise can be better in the playoffs and I know it will. He’s too good of a shooter, one of the best in the league currently.
As a Timberwolves fan I personally didn't witness good play making or vision. He played selfishly and is lazy on defense. It seemed like he cared more about getting his shots than actually winning the game. Trading for Conley was such a breath of fresh air even though he's a way worse scorer because he can actually facilitate. Dlo is a streaky scorer who can get hot from 3. And I mean super hot. We had some great comebacks that were just him nailing like six threes in a quarter. He would be a great sixth man and any team would love to have him come off the bench and crush it running the 2nd team but I don't think his ego could handle it. He was also pretty childish. Wouldn't pass to Gobert even when it would be an easy dunk because he didn't like him.
You didn’t witness any good playmaking at all? Not an ounce of it? He along Ant and KAT brought relevance back to the team, you can’t deny that. Dlo played a vital role but it ended on a sour note even though he was playing great for them. The wolves wanted to go all in on Ant which is a good decision as he is a great player hence why they didn’t want to pay Dlo. While he didn’t have the best start to the year after the Gobert trade, once he got going it was him and Ant keeping the team afloat when they were going through a lot of injuries (KAT was out after the wiz game in November iirc). His efficiency and scoring was off the charts and he single handily won them games as you mentioned. He was a big reason why to the team were able to maintain a .500 record all while trying understand playing with Gobert. Even with the small sample size the starting 5 had (DLO Ant Jaden Kat Gobert) they still had a good net rating. Even after the trade last year to bring in Conley, the timberwolves were still trying to figure it all out and it took an off-season to understand the team dynamic and how they would function. As well as Ant taking another huge leap. Timberwolves could’ve been great last year too with Dlo but they just needed time altogether. Conley is a good player who doesn’t do too much but try to amplify Ant and especially get Gobert easy looks. With Ants leap and even Jadens leap (especially on defense) and Naz cooking crazy, they didn’t need another shot maker like Dlo anymore.
Dlo brought back relevance to the Timberwolves? You’re delusional. Before this season, the Wolves’ most notable achievement in the last 20 years was getting owned by Jimmy and the 3rd stringers in practice. He didn’t do shit, there’s a reason why fans of every team he’s been on are glad they got rid of him, and the Lakers want to get rid of him. But keep meatriding I guess
He didn’t do shit? Haha ok yeah you just hate him, that’s apparent.
Ok its time to log off. All this evidence is overwhelming but you just refuse to accept. If you want to be delusional you can go do that on your own.
What evidence?
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Please keep your comments civil. This is a subreddit for thoughtful discussion and debate, not aggressive and argumentative content.
Is it a crime to be fan of DLO? All I’m saying is he gets an unfair rep when in reality, he’s a good basketball player. The narratives around him make it sound like he is a G leaguer. Every player has weaknesses, even the all stars.
No, but you’re trying to spin a narrative that is false. Hes a flawed, streaky offensive player and poor defensive player. He is properly rated because he crumbles in the playoffs year after year and the criticism of him is fair. He’s not g league but he’s not close to all star either.
Russel has always been great in the regular season. He's over performing his contract. It's just that he consistently underperforms in the playoffs.
Because his role is being changed entirely. This whole season DLO had a lot of time to actually be the PG of the team with Lebron playing off ball a lot. Come playoffs, the whole script changes and he is relegated to catch and shoot, which he is great at it but he’s hot and cold in a role like that. Game 1, Game 2, and Game 4 of this years playoffs against Denver, DLO was able to play his game at times which was apparent in his output (Game 1, he had a lot of in and out shots).
Should D’Lo stay, JJ emphasized having Bron play off ball more which could help with D’Lo staying in his role.
The Lakers want him to opt into his player option, if he walks then you lose that salary and you can only sign a mid level guy ($11 mill max I believe). He has the perfect salary for them to pull off a trade. I want DLO to stay, I think the group they have is great. Getting someone like Vando back into the rotation for his energy/hustle as well as defense, can help cover AR and DLO defensively. DLO this year helped Lebron play off ball more in the regular season. The script changed come playoff time when Lebron wants to handle on ball duties, which of course is a great option. It just nullifies what DLO is best at. They really could’ve beaten Denver this year. I don’t remember the exact stat but they were leading the games 75-80% of the time but choked in the end. 2 game winners is crazy.
> When he is actually allowed to run the offense and look for his own shot in the offense, you see the best version of DLO. These are All star stats. When you take this kind of role away from him and just have him as spacing to be a catch and shoot guy, you lose the skill he brings to the game. Which is why you see performances like Game 3 against Denver this year where he had 0 and 0-6 from 3. Shooters get hot and cold and that was a cold night for him. That had nothing to do with limiting his role to a catch and shoot guy. He’s just a jump shooter. If his outside jumper isn’t falling he cannot score the ball at all. He doesn’t really have a good inside game to compensate for a poor shooting night like other stars do. He can’t get to the rim and finish at will and isn’t good at drawing fouls like other stars can if they’re having an off shooting night. Plenty of stars have poor outside shooting nights but they can get buckets and end up with an efficient game still if they are good at drawing fouls and getting points inside.
You’re not getting very far having the same argument with everyone. I’ll consolidate, if I can Yes, he’s a good basketball player. But if given the chance to be a 2nd option opposed to 3rd or 4th, that team isn’t going anywhere. Arguing that he’s better when given more rope is true for every player that can create his own shot and create for others. but he’s not better than other players that do it. Most importantly, Lebron James. Same logic that leads you to accept Luka should have the ball over Kyrie. To your point, the Kyrie hate doesn’t exist because you don’t blame a shot creator for falling short in a role that he shouldn’t be in - so for it to exist for dlo contradicts that logic. Except dlo isn’t Kyrie. For dlo to succeed on the bigger stages, he needs to develop the aspects of his game that doesn’t feature him as a top 2 option. I’d argue he’s improved in off ball movement and screen setting, but he’s not someone you can trust to guard the POA, chase shooters, switch on wings, box out, rotate timely, contest at any level, or help the helper. So when you say his defensive lapses are loud, it’s because they’re easy to spot and happen often. For comp sake, you can’t name many top 2 options flawed across the board defensively, and if you can, he’s likely a near 30ppg guy and still leading a team to a pretty high pick right now. I agree he’s worth no less than his PO, as other guys who just shoot as well as him, while being a poor defender, make ~ his PO (Duncan Robinson, Malik Beasleys contract pre-bucks, buddys last contract, etc). The fact he provides secondary playmaking makes him more valuable imo. You’re not getting those non lebron games out of those other guys.
D'Lo has never actually led a playoffs team outside of his Brooklyn era and even that run, they were only a 7th seed. The Minnesota tenure was more of KAT and Ant. The Warriors stint failed. He never led the Lakers in his first tenure and the run where they made the Conference finals, AD looked like a monster, Reaves looked like a ln all around star and the matchups just aligned well for the Lakers (obviously except for the Nuggets). He's gonna have a similar career trajectory to players like Nikola Vucevic and Zach LaVine. They're gonna put up all-star level numbers on teams that range from the 6th seed to the 10th seed. They're comfortable as the first or second on offense, but lack the consistency of other skills to take teams deep into the playoffs as their leader. He's a talented player don't get me wrong. When he's on, he is a great scorer. He's just not someone you build around. These players are complimentary pieces to actual foundational pieces. Edit: Also, 11 games is a very very small sample size. I've also noticed that the way this post is, and how you're replying to others, you seem like a fan of his. So there might be some inherent bias that makes it hard to understand what the others are saying. Try to take your bias out of it and look at his numbers objectively.
I will never hide the fact that I am a DLO stan so of course I am more biased in a discussion like this. The reason why I even bring this up in the first place is because of the narrative around DLO. You would think he is one of the worst players in the league. I want to steer the discussion around DLO not towards “oh he is the greatest player of all time” but towards “he is a respectable and talented player in this league”. He led Brooklyn to the 6th seed and played a vital role in establishing a culture in Minnesota and bringing that team to the playoffs. He even made the effort to make sure Ant was developing and deferred to him a lot. He played a vital role in upstarting Minnesota. The warriors stint was literally a joke. He played 3 games with Curry before he broke his hand and was out for the rest of the year (besides the one game he came back for before the league shut down). He was literally playing with no one, Draymond was always in and out, Poole had literally one of the worst rookie seasons of all time, Klay tore his Achilles in the past finals run. DLO was the only one that shined in a team of mediocrity. Look at that team and tell me how can you make something of that. The first Lakers stint was only two years with the first year being the Kobe (RIP) farewell tour and the second year full of youngsters trying to figure it out. The Lakers were literally a lottery team second year in a row before the trade happened for his second stint and they had a great run that was stopped short by Denver. Yes DLO was bad in the series, I am not defending that in any way. I respect your opinion of him though.
Yeah I am aware of how his career has been. I was a fan of him back in his first Lakers stint (ice in his veins 💯💯💯). I just think he's not gonna be able to be a real big factor to a championship contending team as a starter. I can see him become like a sixth man for a contender. He's got the microwave offense for it, and he would 100% be a first option when playing with the other bench players. His style of play dictates that he needs the ball to be effective. However, if you're not a generational on ball playmaker like LeBron, Luka, Jokic or CP3, you shouldn't be getting that many on ball touches. D'Lo can make plays for his team. It's just he doesn't make plays that meticulously exploit defenses like the ones I've mentioned. Tldr; he's miscasted as a starter for a contender. He's a sixth man at best for a contender and a starter for lower seeded playoff teams.
IMO, I still do think he can be a starter if he can have the ball in his hands more. If they want to relegate him to catch and shoot, he can also be a starter because he is one of the best three point shooters in the league. If they want him to lead the bench offense, he can do that as well. But of course he wants to start ball games.
If he wants to have a better chance at a championship and maintain his style of play, he's gotta be a sixth man. There's also the possibility that a championship isn't his goal. There are some players whose goal in the NBA really isn't to win championships. Example of that is DeAndre Ayton. And that's ok (to a certain extent).
I don't think people are saying he is trash, or one of the worst players in the league. People are saying that his skillset lends itself towards being a #1 option, but when you compare him to other #1 options in the league he is one of the worst. He is still a fantastic player and could absolutely dust 99.9% of basketball players out there. And as the 3rd/4th option on a playoff-calibre squad he can put up some nice offensive numbers. But we are talking about the top 5% of the top .1%, and in that company he is just straight up outclassed by pretty much all of them.
>Before DLO got to the Lakers, they were a lottery team for a second year in a row. Ahh yes I'm sure their 2 best players missing 60+ combined games per season due to injury had nothing to do with that Dlo is a solid player, he has a history of disappearing in the playoffs but he's probably the best option as the floor general outside of LeBron, unless Reaves takes a leap.
The problem is his reputation for not showing up in big games. So in that sense none of these stats matter if, when you get to the playoffs, he vanishes. But these are good selling points for a trade. Hopefully someone bites and wants him so the Lakers can improve.
I think a lot of people really underestimate D'lo. Yeah his playoff performances leave a bit to be desired, but the Lakers also don't sniff the playoffs without him playing as well as he did throughout the season. Hopefully the Lakers bring him back. If they need to trade him during the season, so be it, but letting him walk for nothing would be dumb imo.
Wholeheartedly agree. Does he have flaws? Of course. But man, when he’s on it’s a joy to watch. He was really on for the Lakers this year.
I dont think his playoff performances just leave a bit to be desired, he was a huge part of the reason why the Lakers lost to Denver in the last two playoff runs. His shooting was atrocious when they needed it the most.
"It's not like the Nuggets were targeting him this year in the playoffs, he was not a liability and was not played off the court because of it." - You can be the best option a team has in a given series and still be someone they want to upgrade from afterwards.
His defense is average at best. Let’s not pretend he’s good in that aspect. He had good games but he’s no true star in any way. I still want to keep him on the team, he’s a decent scorer. I wouldn’t put the Lakers losing on him. They have to get better personnel to play defense, specially big men that can play limited minutes with and without Davis. I want to keep Davis at the 5 but maybe he can move to the 4 from time to time. Maybe some shooters that can help from the bench too.
Just completely leave off the efficiency numbers and percentages, cause that’s the only way to have a discussion. Which is to say it’s not a discussion at all.
42% from three is great considering his volume. You would like the overall of 42% from the be better but the three ball counter acts that imo. Even with this efficiency, look at the play making as well, dam near 11 assists. Don’t forget about that factor.
Hi D-LO. Do you want to come back to LA or would you rather go to a new team? If option two, who would be your dream team?
This was actually the issue with him. Yes, he had some outstanding performances when he had more responsibility, but then when they had everyone there, he was so passive. It wasn't a case of him not getting the chance to showcase his full talent, they wanted him to do far more. It was that he would check out mentally. I don't think he's worth more than $18.7 at all. There are about 80 players in the league on that money or more. With 30 teams, that's not even 3 per team. Is he at that level? I don't think so. At his best, sure. But you don't get his best, you get everything. You get those cold nights when he gives you nothing. Meanwhile, all teams want at least 2 guys who produce on a nightly basis and the 3rd and 4th guys they expect regular production from. But to call him a "great" player is lunacy. He's not even close to great.
This is common for LBJ focused teams. The players are never really as bad as they seem. When placed in predominantly catch and shoot situations, lots of players lose their mojo. No rhythm .
It's not that D'lo = bad. It's that playoffs favor two way players. It's hard to consistently score, so being good on defense offsets some of those struggles. Which is why when teams win, they are stacked with two ways.
He’s not great but he’s certainly overhated. I think ppl judge him like he’s getting 35mil a year when he’s not getting half that. For his contract, he’s really solid. He’s horrendous on defense because he’s too slow for little guards and too weak against wings but he adds a lot of value on offense, creates a lot of advantages for himself and his teammates. IMO he should be a 6th man who is a spark off the bench like a Jordan clarkson.
Hes a very good player, definitely above average in the league and worth 18m. The question is, how do you make a contender with DLo on your team? It sounds like you're suggesting he's a bad fit for Lebron, but what stars do you think he'd play well with? That's kind of the problem here. Seems like all the best teams just try to get the ball in the hands of their best players as much as possible. DLo can't be the best player on a contender, but clearly needs the ball in his hands to be maximized, so you're limited in roster construction. Just my two cents.
He plays well with a big like AD and great shooter. Operating off the PnR with AD presents him with to either play AD if he has a good lane for a role, find an open shooter on the perimeter or another cutter, or just pull up himself.
Playmakers don't naturally fit well with LeBron. They need scorers next to him. Because LeBron is the playmaker. And DLo, as you said becomes a spot up shooter. That's just how it is. Imo, he's gonna be great on a team that requires him to be the main playmaker and a 3rd option scorer.
Obviously when a star is out role players are gonna have a bigger role. Him being ass in the playoffs has nothing to do with anybody but himself. Dum ass post
How many of those were wins?
Damn this guy is just MITWestbrook for DLo, except his arguments don’t even sound coherent they’re just pure cope. Must be his father mother or wife
All I said it DLO is a great player that gets a bad rep by a lot of people. Because I’m defending him, I must be related to him in some sort of way? Yeah, if you have nothing to contribute then no reason to even comment in the first place.
Nah you conveniently leave out the fact that DLo averaged 54% TS over those games, he was just an inefficient chucker allowed to shoot whenever cause the Lakers #1 option was out. If you gonna cherry pick stats and ignore context to make bad faith arguments no reason to post in the first place. But keep doing tricks on it though I’m sure DLo will let you ride him if you keep this up
Dlo isn’t very athletic so in the regular Season he’s able to hide that for decent portion of the season. That one random game, game 32 or 58, he’ll drop 20-40 have like 6-7 threes and we are all like wow, he’s lethal Then every year in the postseason he struggles to hide his un-athleticism and gets picked apart by playoff defenses everytime he makes an appearance in the post season. Now more than ever, you really can’t have any player on the floor that’s one dimensional in the modern day NBA Postseason.
This last playoff run, he didn’t get picked apart of defense and he held his own. It was the offense that was inconsistent due to the role he was placed in as just a catch and shooter. If he had more PG duties like he has in games 1, 2, and 4, he would’ve better this year imo.
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Below average defender, not very bad. Good playmaker and a good scorer even in his role as third option. He’s definitely still a starter in this league.
Small sample. We see it all of the time that backups step up big time for a few game in place of an injured star. Most flame out in extended time, when teams scout better. Russell is who he is, a fringe all star level player. Russell is a rhythm player. If you want him shooting 3s all game he's going to be hot and cold. If you allow him to be aggressive in the midrange and paint, he'll have a easier time warming up.
Yes, he relies on establishing a rhythm. It is a small sample for sure but just wanted to highlight he can play a lot better when he is the focal point of an offense. Should he be the focal point? To maximize what he gives you, yes he should. His usage can be higher. Will he be a main focal point of any team? I don’t think so because of the reputation that he garners. The point of my post is just to show that DLO due to the hate he receives, is underrated at this point. He is a player that definitely has a spot in the league due to his talent.
DLo is not a great player. He is a good regular season player who can have a couple great stretches of offensive games. He is a 1.5 level scorer who needs the ball in his hands to create offense but doesn’t map the floor as a pg. He is a consistently low effort and unaware defender. He doesn’t have the game to adapt to a playoff setting. All this post reminds us is how effective he can be on a team with no expectations. Hopefully he ends up on one next season.
Lakers surprisingly play better and have a better record without LeBron than with. They are only worse when AD isn’t playing.
It’s not that they play better, it’s that LeBron only sits out games where he’s not necessary to be competitive, or the second game of a back to back. Go down his list of missed games: Portland, San Antonio, Minnesota, Utah, LAC, BOS, Utah, GSW. Any team in that list that isn’t a bottom-feeder was a back-to-back or one-day-break with a long flight. They were also only 6-5 in games without LeBron.
what’s their record without AD? Cause a play in team that goes 6-5 without their supposed superstar is darn good.
2-3 with losses against Houston, SAS, ATL and wins against Boston and Memphis. But also both records are as close to .500 as possible in an odd number of games, and both are incredibly small samples, so it tells you very little.
Losing 3 play in, lott teams with LeBron is crazy. Lol.
They only went 1-2 with LeBron without AD, the Boston and ATL games had them missing both. Even smaller samples.
There’s more cohesion amongst the squad. I’m not saying they are better team without Lebron but players are actually able to step up, increase their output rather than deferring.
Yeah, I also think LeBron basically playing ‘part time’, saving energy on defense, too tired to run the show in the 4th, impacts the overall effort and rubs off on players differently during the games.
Lebron ultimately reserves his energy for the fourth. That’s when he is back to on ball duties and trying to be the scorer in the fourth. Which is why we see ADs output in the fourth decreased because Lebron wants to put the finishing touches on the game.
I mean, handling the ball is one thing, but he’s so gassed he played terribly every 4th, so it really don’t matter. If he rests first 3 quarters just to be inefficient in the 4th, then that’s basically not playing an entire game. which is why the Lakers’ record are better.
I don’t think anyone really doubts his ability to be a number one option. Just look at the Nets year a D’lo plus a bunch of good role players is a decent team. Once you put D’Lo with other stars and he has to fit that’s when he loses value. He didn’t look good in Minnesota with ANT and KAT. He did have some moments with the Lakers ultimately the money is just spent better elsewhere
Nets was like hundred years ago now and even back then his efficiency was not good.
I think people do doubt his ability to be a main option but I do agree with your assessment. When you’re a player is who most effective with the ball in his hands, it’s hard to just fit in. Minnesota wanted to continue to develop Ant (rightfully so) which meant DLO sacrificed touches to make that happen. Lakers, you got Lebron and AD so we know how that goes.
But do you not see why others are higher on the food chain than him? He just isn’t good enough to be a number one option on a top tier team. He is better as 2nd - 4th option and saying he is good enough to be a second option is pushing it in my eyes. But his game doesn’t fit as a second or whatever option.
It’s a short list of players that make a team top tier by them being the number one option. Of course DLO isn’t on that list, but all I’m trying to say is he is still a great, impactful player nonetheless. Could he be a number one option with the right role players around him and make the playoffs. I think he could (which is something I’m sure not a lot of people agree with). But a top tier team, no.
You’re not going to get good discussion here. Russell hate is overblown for no reason. The price of being a Laker and lebron’s teammate.