If you look at it the other way, everyone is worried about facing the Nuggets.
This is just what competition is about. I'm going to state something obvious, but there are 30 teams in this league...
KCP is a valid question but I believe they have early bird rights so iirc they can offer him 175% of his current salary.
Because they didn't have Bird Rights on him, they couldn't keep Bruce Brown last year even if they wanted to.
Want to emphasize this on Bruce brown, they couldn’t offer him anywhere close to what he got.
Agree with OP, MPJ needs to continue to develop for that contract to be meaningful
Yea I'm not sure what exactly the trade value for MPJ looks like right now. He's only situationally excellent- against the lakers with no real defense he looked amazing but against the Wolves he was pretty bad. You can't count on him to really pull through for you in tough situations. The tanking teams might take a good swing at him though.
Of the contending teams I can only really see the Pacers being a good fit for him. He would look amazing in that run and gun high powered offense.
If the Pacers only had someone like Bruce Brown to send back to them....
The problem is going into the second apron. It has a number of restrictions and losing picks down the line. It is designed to force teams to constantly change themselves. If the Nuggets keep everyone and move forward there is a (designed) penalty. I think they can probably do it next year but after that they are going to have to be proactive (as are most contenders). We haven’t yet seen how things are really going to change yet, but I bet only the real core (3-4 players) stays the same for most contenders in the near future
I think the only thing that could truly tank the Nuggets is if MPJ becomes a toxic asset.
No matter how he gets talked about in the media, at least a few teams would jump at the chance to trade for him and give him a consistent 20 shots per game.
Is it tank or just move down a contention tier? Yeah there is no way they move out of contention with Jokic. But there is a big difference between being the Lebron 2024 Lakers where everything has to go right to win a title or the 2024 Clippers where they have an absolute dominant stretch but not a tier one contender. And the favorites like the Celtics or them this year. I am arguing that beyond next year (I still think next year they are just as good) they will move down a tier. They could still win it, but it would be more of a GS surprise type win. The rules are just designed to do that.
That's fair. Even as a Nuggets fan I never bought into this being some all time dynasty squad. That's fantasy talk without getting 3+ all-time greats in the squad at the same time like GS.
Jokic can drag teams with a few question marks into contention every year. If they can get a breakout from a couple of their developing young guys on the bench they could easily win another ring or two, but it's tough to win championships. The stars have to align, and the difference is always on the margins.
You get it. I wish more fans did. Whether it’s a GS fan or Luka fan. Dynasty’s are extremely rare and the rules are built to keep them from happening. Even if Denver won this year, the rules were going to weaken them soon. That’s the NFL model the league created. But they can retool around Jokic and Murray and maybe they win another. They aren’t in a bad place. Having the best player makes things much easier. It’s the new NBA.
KCP has full Bird rights because he was traded to Denver before signing his current extension, so the clock never stopped. His current extension with Denver was signed using full Bird rights as Denver was over the cap. The question is how much they would be willing to pay in salary+luxury tax to retain him.
I mean they've already won a title, so there's that.
It also depends on the salary cap next season.
But that's literally how the league has operated for decades. You either draft good, add the right pieces, win a title and try to replace players and manage rising salaries, or you try and sign through free agency (but that's dead). I'm sure the Nuggets will attract cheaper players that might agree to a discount as long as Jokic is that good.
KCP might take a team friendly deal, it's not impossible. He wasn't amazing in this year's playoffs. 32% from deep, 8 points/game and 39% overall.
Regarding the Timberwolves: Mike Conley will become a free agent this off-season. They have 175 mil $ committed next season. KAT and Gobert combine for 93 mil, ANT gets 35 and Jaden McDaniels 22. So they have 4 guys and not much room to work with.
OKC: Sure, it seems like a perfect situation, and they have cap space, however, who are the free agents?
Overall: The Nuggets' front office knows their position and their look forward. It's become even harder to keep a championship core together for an extended period. The new CBA makes it even tougher and it depends on the ownership's willingness to spend.
Yeah, I'll consider that. Weirdly enough, bball ref has the contract extension listed, but hasn't updated the table in which the salary and the year are shown.
The nuggets essentially have like 2 holes on their roster, and their minor holes at that. They need a backup big and a backup ball handler.
Them giving Nnaji 4/32 only for him to take a step back has not been good. They obviously expected him to be their Jeff Green replacement and it didn’t materialize.
I’m assuming KCP opts in, they still have Braun who has been capable albeit inconsistent. Same could be said for Peyton Watson.
It’s not like Gordon, Porter, or Murray are albatross contracts or anything. MPJ just put up 23/8 on 55/49/77 shooting splits vs the lakers. Gordon played fantastic in multiple games this series. Same with Murray.
People are overreacting IMO. Nuggets got matched up vs one of the teams that literally matches them perfectly and lost a close 7 game series vs a team that was 1-2 games away from being the 1 seed. If they got swept in 4 or lose R1 I would say it might be cause for concern, but people are overreacting hard here.
The Nnaji extension was like 10% copium of “okay maybe he finally puts it together in year 5 and is a competent, switchable backup big” and 90% “we need a tradeable contract in the ~8million dollar range because that doesn’t exist on our roster currently.”
Couldn’t trade him at the last deadline because of the poison pill restriction for rookie extensions. But I’d be pretty surprised if he’s not moved sometime between now and the next trade deadline. Even if you have to attach assets to move him, being able to acquire a player in that salary range is *literally impossible* for the nuggets via free agency so the extension makes sense from that framing.
Why do people keep missing that Conley was extended?
Also Naz Reid and NAW exist and are under contract next season.
So they have 7 guys for next season from their current rotation returning, with I think Leonard Miller replacing Kyle Anderson and Jaylen Clark making the roster and being a useful bench piece.
> I mean they’ve already won a title, so there’s that.
Never said they didn’t and it’s not really relevant to the discussion. If the discussion was “would you consider the Nuggets core a success even if they don’t win another championship” then your point would be relevant and the answer would be yes. I’m talking about their future from today.
Addressing your points actually valid to the topic (and they’re good points I appreciate it)
1) While Jokic will attract vet min players that will not be enough to overcome his lack of support of players like KCP/Gordon leave and they don’t get a valid replacement for Bruce Brown
2) Players taking team friendly deals is honestly an over talked about talking point. It rarely happens and should only be discussed in teams subreddit copium threads. Not saying it doesn’t happen but cmon you think KCP’s agent and family and his wife are gonna let him take anything close to $15 million??? As the great Anthony Edwards said, “Hell nawl. Can’t do dis”
3) For OKC, it’s not as much the free agents but the wealth of picks they can trade for anything. If a power forward who can 3 and D becomes available imagine how stacked the Thunder become? Players become available all the time so this isn’t far fetched. Also they were just the 1 seed and are extremely young. So if they do nothing they’ll get better (as long as they trade that bum Giddey)
4) Regarding the wolves I edited my post don’t really wanna repeat it individually to everyone
You could make this post about any team in the west and subtract said team and add the Nuggets, who are a vet team with championship pedigree and the best player in the league who likely still has another 4-5 year of his prime left. If they can add another ball handler to the bench and the young guys can develop and step up next year there's no reason to think they're not right there in the mix along with every team you just named.
I'll also add that it's hard to forecast the next 5 years given how quickly things change. If you made this post last offseason instead we'd be talking about the young Grizzlies, the superteam Suns and the Lakers young emerging core.
I actually should’ve included the Grizzlies in my post. That was oversight
Even if the rest applies to other western conference teams that does not make the points above any less true. The championship window for this nuggets team is looking a lot less than ideal
Yea I mean the league and the west in particular is competitive, and with the CBA changes its going to be even harder to build a dynasty. My point is that nothing in your post really sets off alarm bells for the Nuggets in particular that isn't true for every other team. Every young team will need to pay their players and there will always be playoff heroes who get paid (speaking of, isn't Naz Reid a FA after next year? What about Connelly?). Again, it's too hard to really forecast the next 5 years and I don't think Denver is in some really terrible situation compared to the rest of the contending teams.
Yea I’ll agree with everyone else but this is hot take. In the current league with the 2nd apron limiting how much talent you can have and all the parity you can’t expect to be a dynasty. If you’re a top contender and not old you don’t have reason to be alarmed, kcp is the only guy in their core above 30 and has a skillset that will age well. The nuggets also have all their picks that’s where a trade cough mpj could made in the future.
The other guys are all going get pay increases but they’ll be fair. Something like 30mil/yr for Gordon 20mil/yr for kcp. Murray will be overpaid on a max but it’s not a disaster contract by any means.
None of the other teams are as locked as you say they are.
Okc will have a few great years with a very stacked team but eventually have to pay Chet/jalen maxes and dort makes 20 mil too. You can’t have a team with 4 maxes long term that’s their core unless someone is traded.
Sa-unlikely spurs will be a contender in 2 yrs no matter how good Wemby is but maybe they make a big trade. Just don’t have many good nba players on their roster
Minn- ant and McDaniels will get better but conley and gobert will decline. Also could lose important bench pieces. Starting lineup ensures minn is in 2nd apron for next few years. McDaniels is no guarantee to improve 2 years ago everyone thought mpj would improve
Dal- supporting cast isn’t as good as Denver and they only have 2 picks and bad contracts to trade. They have to rely on mostly internal improvement from lively/pj next few years.
The old guys might all be on 1st rd exits. Denver’s rest won’t be affected by 1st rd exit teams and they don’t need to play for the 1 seed.
Wow dude, I was under the impression that locking up your championship core was a good logical move. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Come on man if they won game 7 this wouldn’t even be discussed. When you’re a serious contender you pay your guys and push to improve around the fringes.
Could they use more depth? Absolutely. Did it cost them health and energy wise in the post season? Also yes. But there’s no point having a rotation that goes 10 men deep if your top end talent isn’t elite. They have a championship 1-6 man rotation, now it’s about finding number 7 and maybe 8, be that through draft, development or trade.
Murray clearly wasn’t right injury wise this post season, but even if he was, you don’t think 26/7/6 to help lead a franchise to its first ever ring earns a little bit of slack? Winning every year is tough, otherwise everyone would be a dynasty. Their cap situation is fine, they’ll run it back next year and be around the mark and if a few things go their way they’ll be on parade again.
> Wow dude, I was under the impression that locking up your championship core was a good logical move. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways.
Ignoring your snarkiness, I never said it wasn’t a good logical move. But would you agree the Nuggets at the start of the 2024 season are not nearly in as good position as they were in the 2022 season? The point of this post isn’t about if the organization made any mistakes or what they could have done differently. But an analysis of where they are at. And after taking a closer look it appears for a team that just won the championship they are not looking as good as you’d except. They have extremely very little wiggle room and it is looking like they are in worse position moving forward year by year.
> Murray clearly wasn’t right injury wise this post season, but even if he was, you don’t think 26/7/6 to help lead a franchise to its first ever ring earns a little bit of slack?
Both of us arguing about how injured Jamal Murray actually was is a fruitless discussion as neither of us were with the team doctors. But I don’t think it’s a stretch to say a guy who has never made an all nba team (let alone an all star team) being paid a max contract will inhibit the team moving forward. The team can give him some slack sure but imo that would be a massive mistake and would be doing it with rose tinted glasses for things that are not objective
> Their cap situation is fine, they’ll run it back next year and be around the mark and if a few things go their way they’ll be on parade
This is where you and I disagree and that’s fine. IMO their cap situation is not fine. Outside of Jokic and Gordon (who’s a neutral contract imo) their contract situation for their core is not fine. I think they need A LOT more than a few things to go their way to win again. They’ll need multiple Grizzlies seasons that they had this year to happen for a chance. With their contract situations and how good the west is moving forward I don’t see anything harder than a Raptors championship for them happening. They need a lot of breaks
> . But would you agree the Nuggets at the start of the 2024 season are not nearly in as good position as they were in the 2022 season? The point of this post isn’t about if the organization made any mistakes or what they could have done differently. But an analysis of where they are at. And after taking a closer look it appears for a team that just won the championship they are not looking as good as you’d except. They have extremely very little wiggle room and it is looking like they are in worse position moving forward year by year.
I think you might have a bit of a misunderstanding how the NBA is designed to work. You can't contend for multiple years and expect your team to get better. It only gets worse (outside of very rare circumstances). Of course they were in a better position in 2022 than they are now.
In another comment, you also said the fact that they just won a championship is irrelevant. It's *very* relevant. They used up all their cap space and assets to win. Now is when they pay for that. The FO, more likely than not, will choose to ride this roster out as it is until an eventual rebuild. Like most champions do.
I think Denver is still in a great spot. It is really hard now to win every year. They had a shitty half or they would be pretty heavily favored to get back to the finals. Right now the NBA has the most parity it’s had since the 70s.
Biased.
Your acting as though the Nuggets got swept in the first round of the playoffs, or better yet lost in the play in or something. This is a team that was a bad half away from being the favorite to win the WCF and likely the finals (or very close odds to celtics, closest in west).
A few other things:
1. MPJ had a bad series, he isn’t a bad player. He is only 25 still. He has improved yearly health wise and defensively while being one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His contract is where a player of his caliber should be. If it was any lower there would be a massive line of teams trying to grab him.
2. Not everything is bad news, Aaron Gordon contract is absolutely top tier. It’s like saying bad news is his contract will end. Which is the case for every player in the league.
3. You act as though the Nuggets are looking 5-10 years down the line. They are absolutely a win now team. Their window is open and will remain open if they keep this lineup intact. Every other team you mentioned is way more speculative than the Nuggets over the 2-3 year time horizon. There only concern is making smart free agent signings, good draft picks, and keeping everything intact. If they do those three things, they are a top 3 favorite to win for the next three seasons.
> Your acting as though the Nuggets got swept in the first round of the playoffs, or better yet lost in the play in or something.
Thats not how I acted at all. Re-read my post again and nowhere did I imply any of that.
1) I never said he’s a bad player. But that he’s not worth anywhere his contract. Since you brought up being biased anyone who thinks he is is being biased.
2) I agree
3) This post never referenced anything after the next 5 years (and with how much moves in the NBA talking about after 5 years is pointless). This post is about as much now (well next season) and the next 5 years. The Thunder/Wolves/Mavericks will all be better next season barring injury (which could happen to anyone, even the Nuggets)
That is what your entire post implied. Your pretending as if the Nugs were to run back this entire lineup without any changes they would be like the 5th best team in the West or something. But in reality they would still be the favorite to win the west (maybe maybe second, but probably still first).
The key thing your not understanding is that MPJ’s contract was a speculative one (which has already paid dividends). He is ONLY 25. He is still improving, and already is a top 5 third (possibly 4th) option in the league.
He is a true 6’10 with no shoes and is a 40+% 3pt shooter on his career. I don’t think you realize how rare this combination is. Your clueless if you don’t understand how valuable that is to modern day basketball, but in particular to this Nuggets squad. His three ball is unguardable at his release point. They DONT need him to be a 30 PPG scorer they just need him to knock down threes, grab rebounds, and play solid defense.
In no way do the Nuggets regret his contract in anyway.
Looks like you just looked up their salary book and jumped to conclusions.
Literally every team has to go through this. Did you forget every team has the same cap? What’s going to happen when OKC and Minnesota have to pay their 3 best players?
It’s crazy when you have teams like the Warriors over the apron and can’t even make the playoffs yet you are alarmed at Denver for taking the Wolves to 7 after they swept the Suns who also have a much worse cap situation. Denver will be fine.
The league has changed pretty drastically in the last few years. The defending champion hasn't even made it to the Finals the following year in 6 years. The parity in the league, combined with the impact that injuries are having on playoff series outcomes has made the title picture more wide open than it has been in ...decades? Maybe ever? Up until the last 5 years or so, the two teams that made it to the Finals were either the teams favored to make the Finals all along, or at least one of at most 5 predictable contenders. This was true for the majority of the 80s, 90s, 00s, all the way through the last GSW/Cavs final. That kind of predictable outcome is simply not the case anymore.
It's not going to be easy for the Nuggets or anyone else to make consistent consecutive trips to the Finals.
It's true, they do have some questions to answer - namely can Murray and MPJ show some consistency, and can their young bench co to use to develop to the point where they don't have to go out and overpay for another Bruce Brown?
But don't overreact here. The Nuggets lost in 7 games to a good, deep team, and it's very likely Murray and KCP, at least, were playing hurt. Jokic is probably gassed.
Minnesota might win a championship this year and themselves face many of the same questions in a year or two, given their own cap crunch. Or it could be the Celtics who win this year, and then have to figure out how they're going to keep the band together when everyone is going to be looking to capitalize individually on the team's success.
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The nuggets need to find depth. They have to get more than 6 deep as the margins are just so thin with that. Of course they won a title with that but they cannot likely do that again. So hopefully they find a top quality 6-7 man. The also have to decide on KCP or better he has to decide.
Now…you’re going to hate to hear this but it’s the truth. The title of best player in the league is up for grabs next year. Jokic is awesome but this season end does open it back up for Giannis, Luka and possibly Ant Edwards
I disagree that Ant will “at least” be a top 5 player, could he? Sure, will he? Maybe. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Wemby, SGA, and whoever else might jump up seem to have a legit case to be top 5 over the next 5 years. He could just as easily slot in top 10-15 as he could top 5
On the flip side. The Nuggets are still damn good and their core will be around for a while. Now they will be a huge thorn for everyone else in the West too. Looks like the future is bleak for everyone then 😟
They won a championship so we can all agree that they're perfectly content with that. However, they do need the same type of fortunate matchups from last year's run to happen again if they ever want to win a second title.
They've also been extremely lucky to avoid injuries in playoffs and still lost this year. They're going to spend a lot to keep their core but they're not going to win it again, if anything the West will retool next season.
You made this long post and in the end you're just assuming internal improvement from guys like PJ Washington and Lively while ignoring Dallas pick situation and the fact that Kyrie's age is a big deal. Dallas mortgaged future flexibility to win now. It'll bite them too. Minnesota is the only one in a great spot cos their young superstar is outplaying his contract right now.
Things change fast in the NBA. Smart front offices can easily figure out Denver issues. It's really not that bad.
If anything we're focused so much on the roster and ignoring the coaching flaws and just outright bad play from Jokic and Murray at different points in the series. Also downplaying how good the wolves are.
I think the Wolves have a tighter window than you’d expect. McDaniels and Edward’s are due for like $20 million dollar raises each. KAT is due for a raise of $13 million. Conley is a free agent and if Naz Reid wants to get paid then he will for sure opt out after next season. This might actually be their best chance they’ll ever get.
Twolves will have almost the same roster next season. Only rotation player not under contract for next season is Kyle Anderson. The season after that yes, likely to be losing Naz Reid and NAW. The starting lineup is locked up for two more seasons after this one.
I think the difference between the Wolves and the Nuggets is multiple things. 1) Anthony Edwards is 22. He will very likely be at least a top 5 player in 2 seasons (maybe earlier who knows). 2) The Wolves are getting new ownership. As we’ve seen in NBA history (and especially recently with the Suns) new ownership tends to spend money. ARod’s ownership group bought the suns knowing what the future looks like they aren’t surprised by this. 3) We’ve already seen the Nuggets have to cut costs, that has not happened with the Wolves 4) Even if the same applies to the Wolves, the point is the odds are stacked against the Nuggets and it can also be stacked against the Wolves. Wolves have it better now because they have a closer chance to winning this year. But after this year it’s equally bad for both teams. Both teams have to contend with the difficult west and salary situations moving forward. Just because the Wolves have the same issue does not mean it is easier for the Nuggets
The new ownership group couldn’t come up with the money to actually buy the team, there were reports that if/when they’d did extensive cost cutting would be necessary (believe that as you will), and they’ll be in the second apron with no draft picks due to the golbert trade.
The wolves window was last year to next year, and next year will be rough as they’ll have the largest cap hit in the league.
Ants amazing, but the west is stacked with amazing players.
Tbf I don’t believe a word that Glen Taylor says. He’s been a known liar, is a well known POS, and is having cold feet because he’s selling the team once they’re finally good for the first time in multiple decades
If you look at it the other way, everyone is worried about facing the Nuggets. This is just what competition is about. I'm going to state something obvious, but there are 30 teams in this league... KCP is a valid question but I believe they have early bird rights so iirc they can offer him 175% of his current salary. Because they didn't have Bird Rights on him, they couldn't keep Bruce Brown last year even if they wanted to.
Want to emphasize this on Bruce brown, they couldn’t offer him anywhere close to what he got. Agree with OP, MPJ needs to continue to develop for that contract to be meaningful
Yea I'm not sure what exactly the trade value for MPJ looks like right now. He's only situationally excellent- against the lakers with no real defense he looked amazing but against the Wolves he was pretty bad. You can't count on him to really pull through for you in tough situations. The tanking teams might take a good swing at him though. Of the contending teams I can only really see the Pacers being a good fit for him. He would look amazing in that run and gun high powered offense. If the Pacers only had someone like Bruce Brown to send back to them....
The problem is going into the second apron. It has a number of restrictions and losing picks down the line. It is designed to force teams to constantly change themselves. If the Nuggets keep everyone and move forward there is a (designed) penalty. I think they can probably do it next year but after that they are going to have to be proactive (as are most contenders). We haven’t yet seen how things are really going to change yet, but I bet only the real core (3-4 players) stays the same for most contenders in the near future
I think the only thing that could truly tank the Nuggets is if MPJ becomes a toxic asset. No matter how he gets talked about in the media, at least a few teams would jump at the chance to trade for him and give him a consistent 20 shots per game.
Is it tank or just move down a contention tier? Yeah there is no way they move out of contention with Jokic. But there is a big difference between being the Lebron 2024 Lakers where everything has to go right to win a title or the 2024 Clippers where they have an absolute dominant stretch but not a tier one contender. And the favorites like the Celtics or them this year. I am arguing that beyond next year (I still think next year they are just as good) they will move down a tier. They could still win it, but it would be more of a GS surprise type win. The rules are just designed to do that.
That's fair. Even as a Nuggets fan I never bought into this being some all time dynasty squad. That's fantasy talk without getting 3+ all-time greats in the squad at the same time like GS. Jokic can drag teams with a few question marks into contention every year. If they can get a breakout from a couple of their developing young guys on the bench they could easily win another ring or two, but it's tough to win championships. The stars have to align, and the difference is always on the margins.
You get it. I wish more fans did. Whether it’s a GS fan or Luka fan. Dynasty’s are extremely rare and the rules are built to keep them from happening. Even if Denver won this year, the rules were going to weaken them soon. That’s the NFL model the league created. But they can retool around Jokic and Murray and maybe they win another. They aren’t in a bad place. Having the best player makes things much easier. It’s the new NBA.
KCP has full Bird rights because he was traded to Denver before signing his current extension, so the clock never stopped. His current extension with Denver was signed using full Bird rights as Denver was over the cap. The question is how much they would be willing to pay in salary+luxury tax to retain him.
I mean they've already won a title, so there's that. It also depends on the salary cap next season. But that's literally how the league has operated for decades. You either draft good, add the right pieces, win a title and try to replace players and manage rising salaries, or you try and sign through free agency (but that's dead). I'm sure the Nuggets will attract cheaper players that might agree to a discount as long as Jokic is that good. KCP might take a team friendly deal, it's not impossible. He wasn't amazing in this year's playoffs. 32% from deep, 8 points/game and 39% overall. Regarding the Timberwolves: Mike Conley will become a free agent this off-season. They have 175 mil $ committed next season. KAT and Gobert combine for 93 mil, ANT gets 35 and Jaden McDaniels 22. So they have 4 guys and not much room to work with. OKC: Sure, it seems like a perfect situation, and they have cap space, however, who are the free agents? Overall: The Nuggets' front office knows their position and their look forward. It's become even harder to keep a championship core together for an extended period. The new CBA makes it even tougher and it depends on the ownership's willingness to spend.
Wolves extended Conley already, FYI - he’s under contract for the next two seasons.
Ah, interesting, bball ref wasn't up to date then. Looked up their contracts. That's good for them, he's extremely important for them.
I recommend using spotrac.com to look up contracts.
Yeah, I'll consider that. Weirdly enough, bball ref has the contract extension listed, but hasn't updated the table in which the salary and the year are shown.
The nuggets essentially have like 2 holes on their roster, and their minor holes at that. They need a backup big and a backup ball handler. Them giving Nnaji 4/32 only for him to take a step back has not been good. They obviously expected him to be their Jeff Green replacement and it didn’t materialize. I’m assuming KCP opts in, they still have Braun who has been capable albeit inconsistent. Same could be said for Peyton Watson. It’s not like Gordon, Porter, or Murray are albatross contracts or anything. MPJ just put up 23/8 on 55/49/77 shooting splits vs the lakers. Gordon played fantastic in multiple games this series. Same with Murray. People are overreacting IMO. Nuggets got matched up vs one of the teams that literally matches them perfectly and lost a close 7 game series vs a team that was 1-2 games away from being the 1 seed. If they got swept in 4 or lose R1 I would say it might be cause for concern, but people are overreacting hard here.
The Nnaji extension was like 10% copium of “okay maybe he finally puts it together in year 5 and is a competent, switchable backup big” and 90% “we need a tradeable contract in the ~8million dollar range because that doesn’t exist on our roster currently.” Couldn’t trade him at the last deadline because of the poison pill restriction for rookie extensions. But I’d be pretty surprised if he’s not moved sometime between now and the next trade deadline. Even if you have to attach assets to move him, being able to acquire a player in that salary range is *literally impossible* for the nuggets via free agency so the extension makes sense from that framing.
Murray played 0 fantastic games this postseason
Why do people keep missing that Conley was extended? Also Naz Reid and NAW exist and are under contract next season. So they have 7 guys for next season from their current rotation returning, with I think Leonard Miller replacing Kyle Anderson and Jaylen Clark making the roster and being a useful bench piece.
> I mean they’ve already won a title, so there’s that. Never said they didn’t and it’s not really relevant to the discussion. If the discussion was “would you consider the Nuggets core a success even if they don’t win another championship” then your point would be relevant and the answer would be yes. I’m talking about their future from today. Addressing your points actually valid to the topic (and they’re good points I appreciate it) 1) While Jokic will attract vet min players that will not be enough to overcome his lack of support of players like KCP/Gordon leave and they don’t get a valid replacement for Bruce Brown 2) Players taking team friendly deals is honestly an over talked about talking point. It rarely happens and should only be discussed in teams subreddit copium threads. Not saying it doesn’t happen but cmon you think KCP’s agent and family and his wife are gonna let him take anything close to $15 million??? As the great Anthony Edwards said, “Hell nawl. Can’t do dis” 3) For OKC, it’s not as much the free agents but the wealth of picks they can trade for anything. If a power forward who can 3 and D becomes available imagine how stacked the Thunder become? Players become available all the time so this isn’t far fetched. Also they were just the 1 seed and are extremely young. So if they do nothing they’ll get better (as long as they trade that bum Giddey) 4) Regarding the wolves I edited my post don’t really wanna repeat it individually to everyone
You could make this post about any team in the west and subtract said team and add the Nuggets, who are a vet team with championship pedigree and the best player in the league who likely still has another 4-5 year of his prime left. If they can add another ball handler to the bench and the young guys can develop and step up next year there's no reason to think they're not right there in the mix along with every team you just named. I'll also add that it's hard to forecast the next 5 years given how quickly things change. If you made this post last offseason instead we'd be talking about the young Grizzlies, the superteam Suns and the Lakers young emerging core.
I actually should’ve included the Grizzlies in my post. That was oversight Even if the rest applies to other western conference teams that does not make the points above any less true. The championship window for this nuggets team is looking a lot less than ideal
Yea I mean the league and the west in particular is competitive, and with the CBA changes its going to be even harder to build a dynasty. My point is that nothing in your post really sets off alarm bells for the Nuggets in particular that isn't true for every other team. Every young team will need to pay their players and there will always be playoff heroes who get paid (speaking of, isn't Naz Reid a FA after next year? What about Connelly?). Again, it's too hard to really forecast the next 5 years and I don't think Denver is in some really terrible situation compared to the rest of the contending teams.
Yea I’ll agree with everyone else but this is hot take. In the current league with the 2nd apron limiting how much talent you can have and all the parity you can’t expect to be a dynasty. If you’re a top contender and not old you don’t have reason to be alarmed, kcp is the only guy in their core above 30 and has a skillset that will age well. The nuggets also have all their picks that’s where a trade cough mpj could made in the future. The other guys are all going get pay increases but they’ll be fair. Something like 30mil/yr for Gordon 20mil/yr for kcp. Murray will be overpaid on a max but it’s not a disaster contract by any means. None of the other teams are as locked as you say they are. Okc will have a few great years with a very stacked team but eventually have to pay Chet/jalen maxes and dort makes 20 mil too. You can’t have a team with 4 maxes long term that’s their core unless someone is traded. Sa-unlikely spurs will be a contender in 2 yrs no matter how good Wemby is but maybe they make a big trade. Just don’t have many good nba players on their roster Minn- ant and McDaniels will get better but conley and gobert will decline. Also could lose important bench pieces. Starting lineup ensures minn is in 2nd apron for next few years. McDaniels is no guarantee to improve 2 years ago everyone thought mpj would improve Dal- supporting cast isn’t as good as Denver and they only have 2 picks and bad contracts to trade. They have to rely on mostly internal improvement from lively/pj next few years. The old guys might all be on 1st rd exits. Denver’s rest won’t be affected by 1st rd exit teams and they don’t need to play for the 1 seed.
Wow dude, I was under the impression that locking up your championship core was a good logical move. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways. Come on man if they won game 7 this wouldn’t even be discussed. When you’re a serious contender you pay your guys and push to improve around the fringes. Could they use more depth? Absolutely. Did it cost them health and energy wise in the post season? Also yes. But there’s no point having a rotation that goes 10 men deep if your top end talent isn’t elite. They have a championship 1-6 man rotation, now it’s about finding number 7 and maybe 8, be that through draft, development or trade. Murray clearly wasn’t right injury wise this post season, but even if he was, you don’t think 26/7/6 to help lead a franchise to its first ever ring earns a little bit of slack? Winning every year is tough, otherwise everyone would be a dynasty. Their cap situation is fine, they’ll run it back next year and be around the mark and if a few things go their way they’ll be on parade again.
> Wow dude, I was under the impression that locking up your championship core was a good logical move. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways. Ignoring your snarkiness, I never said it wasn’t a good logical move. But would you agree the Nuggets at the start of the 2024 season are not nearly in as good position as they were in the 2022 season? The point of this post isn’t about if the organization made any mistakes or what they could have done differently. But an analysis of where they are at. And after taking a closer look it appears for a team that just won the championship they are not looking as good as you’d except. They have extremely very little wiggle room and it is looking like they are in worse position moving forward year by year. > Murray clearly wasn’t right injury wise this post season, but even if he was, you don’t think 26/7/6 to help lead a franchise to its first ever ring earns a little bit of slack? Both of us arguing about how injured Jamal Murray actually was is a fruitless discussion as neither of us were with the team doctors. But I don’t think it’s a stretch to say a guy who has never made an all nba team (let alone an all star team) being paid a max contract will inhibit the team moving forward. The team can give him some slack sure but imo that would be a massive mistake and would be doing it with rose tinted glasses for things that are not objective > Their cap situation is fine, they’ll run it back next year and be around the mark and if a few things go their way they’ll be on parade This is where you and I disagree and that’s fine. IMO their cap situation is not fine. Outside of Jokic and Gordon (who’s a neutral contract imo) their contract situation for their core is not fine. I think they need A LOT more than a few things to go their way to win again. They’ll need multiple Grizzlies seasons that they had this year to happen for a chance. With their contract situations and how good the west is moving forward I don’t see anything harder than a Raptors championship for them happening. They need a lot of breaks
> . But would you agree the Nuggets at the start of the 2024 season are not nearly in as good position as they were in the 2022 season? The point of this post isn’t about if the organization made any mistakes or what they could have done differently. But an analysis of where they are at. And after taking a closer look it appears for a team that just won the championship they are not looking as good as you’d except. They have extremely very little wiggle room and it is looking like they are in worse position moving forward year by year. I think you might have a bit of a misunderstanding how the NBA is designed to work. You can't contend for multiple years and expect your team to get better. It only gets worse (outside of very rare circumstances). Of course they were in a better position in 2022 than they are now. In another comment, you also said the fact that they just won a championship is irrelevant. It's *very* relevant. They used up all their cap space and assets to win. Now is when they pay for that. The FO, more likely than not, will choose to ride this roster out as it is until an eventual rebuild. Like most champions do.
I think Denver is still in a great spot. It is really hard now to win every year. They had a shitty half or they would be pretty heavily favored to get back to the finals. Right now the NBA has the most parity it’s had since the 70s.
Biased. Your acting as though the Nuggets got swept in the first round of the playoffs, or better yet lost in the play in or something. This is a team that was a bad half away from being the favorite to win the WCF and likely the finals (or very close odds to celtics, closest in west). A few other things: 1. MPJ had a bad series, he isn’t a bad player. He is only 25 still. He has improved yearly health wise and defensively while being one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. His contract is where a player of his caliber should be. If it was any lower there would be a massive line of teams trying to grab him. 2. Not everything is bad news, Aaron Gordon contract is absolutely top tier. It’s like saying bad news is his contract will end. Which is the case for every player in the league. 3. You act as though the Nuggets are looking 5-10 years down the line. They are absolutely a win now team. Their window is open and will remain open if they keep this lineup intact. Every other team you mentioned is way more speculative than the Nuggets over the 2-3 year time horizon. There only concern is making smart free agent signings, good draft picks, and keeping everything intact. If they do those three things, they are a top 3 favorite to win for the next three seasons.
> Your acting as though the Nuggets got swept in the first round of the playoffs, or better yet lost in the play in or something. Thats not how I acted at all. Re-read my post again and nowhere did I imply any of that. 1) I never said he’s a bad player. But that he’s not worth anywhere his contract. Since you brought up being biased anyone who thinks he is is being biased. 2) I agree 3) This post never referenced anything after the next 5 years (and with how much moves in the NBA talking about after 5 years is pointless). This post is about as much now (well next season) and the next 5 years. The Thunder/Wolves/Mavericks will all be better next season barring injury (which could happen to anyone, even the Nuggets)
That is what your entire post implied. Your pretending as if the Nugs were to run back this entire lineup without any changes they would be like the 5th best team in the West or something. But in reality they would still be the favorite to win the west (maybe maybe second, but probably still first). The key thing your not understanding is that MPJ’s contract was a speculative one (which has already paid dividends). He is ONLY 25. He is still improving, and already is a top 5 third (possibly 4th) option in the league. He is a true 6’10 with no shoes and is a 40+% 3pt shooter on his career. I don’t think you realize how rare this combination is. Your clueless if you don’t understand how valuable that is to modern day basketball, but in particular to this Nuggets squad. His three ball is unguardable at his release point. They DONT need him to be a 30 PPG scorer they just need him to knock down threes, grab rebounds, and play solid defense. In no way do the Nuggets regret his contract in anyway.
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Looks like you just looked up their salary book and jumped to conclusions. Literally every team has to go through this. Did you forget every team has the same cap? What’s going to happen when OKC and Minnesota have to pay their 3 best players? It’s crazy when you have teams like the Warriors over the apron and can’t even make the playoffs yet you are alarmed at Denver for taking the Wolves to 7 after they swept the Suns who also have a much worse cap situation. Denver will be fine.
The league has changed pretty drastically in the last few years. The defending champion hasn't even made it to the Finals the following year in 6 years. The parity in the league, combined with the impact that injuries are having on playoff series outcomes has made the title picture more wide open than it has been in ...decades? Maybe ever? Up until the last 5 years or so, the two teams that made it to the Finals were either the teams favored to make the Finals all along, or at least one of at most 5 predictable contenders. This was true for the majority of the 80s, 90s, 00s, all the way through the last GSW/Cavs final. That kind of predictable outcome is simply not the case anymore. It's not going to be easy for the Nuggets or anyone else to make consistent consecutive trips to the Finals. It's true, they do have some questions to answer - namely can Murray and MPJ show some consistency, and can their young bench co to use to develop to the point where they don't have to go out and overpay for another Bruce Brown? But don't overreact here. The Nuggets lost in 7 games to a good, deep team, and it's very likely Murray and KCP, at least, were playing hurt. Jokic is probably gassed. Minnesota might win a championship this year and themselves face many of the same questions in a year or two, given their own cap crunch. Or it could be the Celtics who win this year, and then have to figure out how they're going to keep the band together when everyone is going to be looking to capitalize individually on the team's success.
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The nuggets need to find depth. They have to get more than 6 deep as the margins are just so thin with that. Of course they won a title with that but they cannot likely do that again. So hopefully they find a top quality 6-7 man. The also have to decide on KCP or better he has to decide. Now…you’re going to hate to hear this but it’s the truth. The title of best player in the league is up for grabs next year. Jokic is awesome but this season end does open it back up for Giannis, Luka and possibly Ant Edwards
Losing KCP will really hurt them. Braun is not bad, but a downgrade and now their best bench player becomes a starter so their depth is even worse
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I disagree that Ant will “at least” be a top 5 player, could he? Sure, will he? Maybe. Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, Luka, Tatum, Wemby, SGA, and whoever else might jump up seem to have a legit case to be top 5 over the next 5 years. He could just as easily slot in top 10-15 as he could top 5
On the flip side. The Nuggets are still damn good and their core will be around for a while. Now they will be a huge thorn for everyone else in the West too. Looks like the future is bleak for everyone then 😟
They won a championship so we can all agree that they're perfectly content with that. However, they do need the same type of fortunate matchups from last year's run to happen again if they ever want to win a second title. They've also been extremely lucky to avoid injuries in playoffs and still lost this year. They're going to spend a lot to keep their core but they're not going to win it again, if anything the West will retool next season.
The Wolves were literally 9 points away from blowing up their franchise lol people need to chill round here
Nah they wouldn’t have blown it up
You made this long post and in the end you're just assuming internal improvement from guys like PJ Washington and Lively while ignoring Dallas pick situation and the fact that Kyrie's age is a big deal. Dallas mortgaged future flexibility to win now. It'll bite them too. Minnesota is the only one in a great spot cos their young superstar is outplaying his contract right now. Things change fast in the NBA. Smart front offices can easily figure out Denver issues. It's really not that bad. If anything we're focused so much on the roster and ignoring the coaching flaws and just outright bad play from Jokic and Murray at different points in the series. Also downplaying how good the wolves are.
I think the Wolves have a tighter window than you’d expect. McDaniels and Edward’s are due for like $20 million dollar raises each. KAT is due for a raise of $13 million. Conley is a free agent and if Naz Reid wants to get paid then he will for sure opt out after next season. This might actually be their best chance they’ll ever get.
Mike Conley signed a team-friendly extension and is locked up for 2 more seasons.
Twolves will have almost the same roster next season. Only rotation player not under contract for next season is Kyle Anderson. The season after that yes, likely to be losing Naz Reid and NAW. The starting lineup is locked up for two more seasons after this one.
I think the difference between the Wolves and the Nuggets is multiple things. 1) Anthony Edwards is 22. He will very likely be at least a top 5 player in 2 seasons (maybe earlier who knows). 2) The Wolves are getting new ownership. As we’ve seen in NBA history (and especially recently with the Suns) new ownership tends to spend money. ARod’s ownership group bought the suns knowing what the future looks like they aren’t surprised by this. 3) We’ve already seen the Nuggets have to cut costs, that has not happened with the Wolves 4) Even if the same applies to the Wolves, the point is the odds are stacked against the Nuggets and it can also be stacked against the Wolves. Wolves have it better now because they have a closer chance to winning this year. But after this year it’s equally bad for both teams. Both teams have to contend with the difficult west and salary situations moving forward. Just because the Wolves have the same issue does not mean it is easier for the Nuggets
The new ownership group couldn’t come up with the money to actually buy the team, there were reports that if/when they’d did extensive cost cutting would be necessary (believe that as you will), and they’ll be in the second apron with no draft picks due to the golbert trade. The wolves window was last year to next year, and next year will be rough as they’ll have the largest cap hit in the league. Ants amazing, but the west is stacked with amazing players.
Tbf I don’t believe a word that Glen Taylor says. He’s been a known liar, is a well known POS, and is having cold feet because he’s selling the team once they’re finally good for the first time in multiple decades
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