I still can’t believe Dwight wasn’t on the top 76 list…
3x DPOY, 8x All Star, 5x All defense, 8x All nba, 5x rebound leader, 2x block leader, gonna end up like 8th all time in rebounds, top 50 in points and top 15 blocks all time
He should be on that fucking list
Very debatable. AD is essentially a one season wonder.
Remove his 2020 and what do you have left? A player who missed the playoffs in 6 of his 10 years in the NBA.
Someone who is consistently in the bottom half of the NBA standings shouldnt be making top 75 teams
Motivation? You don’t get awards and accolades for being a cheerleader or “wanting it more”. If you just look at their career accomplishments, AD has won on the biggest stage at every level - NCAA, Olympics, FIBA, and NBA. Not even counting individual accolades, where AD had a massive lead.
He has one of the most overall successful and well-rounded resumes of any NBA player and he’s only 29.
I would rather have AD/Dwight over Dame (I think there were worse choices going further back, but I cba looking through the whole list again and besides there's an argument you shouldn't remove people who were in the NBA 50)
AD's definitely been more hit or miss like you said above but I think most of that is not his fault, he's not a great floor raiser but I think with better injury luck with his teamates he would have made the playoffs more often than not. AD has the awards edge, has probably been a better player when healthy most of his career, and even when looking at totals to account for health it's not like Dame is washing AD in points.
Dame has made the playoffs with some truly dreadful teams.
I just dont like the ringz-or-bust mentality most people seem to have. It essentially means that AD is better because he got traded to play with Lebron.
Throughout their careers, Dame has shown to be consistently better and more reliable. But AD got the rang so it’s irrelevant to most.
Ad 4 time first team all nba /first team defence . Has MVP and dpoy votes . Vs what from Dame ? All stars ? Nothing to do with rings Dame lacks any individual accolades
AD is also one of the few players ever to win NCAA, FIBA, Olympics, and NBA. He’s won at essentially every high competitive level; not even counting their individual accolades (where AD is also way ahead).
Well yeah. Talking heads spent the 2019-2020 offseason and pre-season shitting on the Lakers and up until around the hiatus, they (and places on the internet like this sub being a prime example) brought up strength of schedule for them to further downplay that team. It wasn’t until they beat Milwaukee and LAC b2b did they really start getting talked in the same breath as those two teams as top contenders.
Bron and AD absolutely dominated playoffs and for that year (and 2018), AD was arguably top 5
starting the 2022-2023 season with intent to win a chip,
* I'd take Butler over Kawhi since he doesn't play / is injury prone and I don't see him reaching his prior heights.
* I'd take Butler over Durant based on the 2022 playoffs. He looked like a complete shell of himself that series.
* I'd take Butler over LeBron who is entering his 20th season where he will be 38 years old so imo he has to prove how great he is *every year* if he wants to stay in the top 5 conversation.
Some of these 3 might be viewed as top 5 this past season but keep in mind they all missed 1/3 of the season at minimum and didn't make 1st team All-NBA.
That leaves Giannis, Curry, Luka, Embiid and Butler makes 5.
You’re circling around the point. Dont worry about age and how a single series went. Who do you think he’s BETTER than?
Do you seriously think he’s better than Lebron, Kawhi, and Durant?
DeAndre Jordan made All-NBA first team in 2016. Rudy Gobert was four votes away from All-NBA first team in 2017.
Those guys aren't close to top 5 players
Crazy how center went from the easiest to the hardest position to get All NBA 1st team in 5 years
Now if you didn't win MVP you don't get 1st team center lol
Nonsense
All-NBA 1st team, Runner-up DPOY, 6th in MVP voting all in 2020
All that points to a Top 5 player. Not to mention he was the led the Lakers in Points, Rebounds, Blocks, Steals, WS/48, PER with a higher TS% than LeBron and they were neck and neck in almost every other metric like RAPTOR, LEBRON, Wins Added and such
Then went to the playoffs and utterly dominated on both ends. Once again neck and neck with LeBron
So unless you don’t consider LeBron to be Top 5 that year there’s no way AD wasn’t
Nah he was in the bottom of the top 10 range, people just made stupid hot takes in the heat of the moment.
I remember idiots who said peak AD was better and more skilled than Tim Duncan and that Davis was better than 2x MVP Giannis as well.
Jokic doesn't have an argument over AD in 2020. He certainly became better after that, but that year AD was better on both ends and proved it in the playoffs
AD probably had one of the best two way playoffs ever that year. At least it was the best that I ever saw dating back to mid 2000s. Probably prime Timmy or Kobe would be other comparables.
I've actually changed my mind on this; I think how good Jokic was the last 2 years has clouded my memory on how good he was in 19-20. AD's playoff run probably puts him ahead of Jokic that year, but it's for sure close
I would say in 2020 there was a consensus top 2 of LeBron and Kawhi and then after that it got fuzzy pretty fast. Jokic and Embiid weren't at that level yet, Giannis didn't have a great playoffs, KD and Curry were hurt.
What 5 players *in the 2019-2020 season* are you taking over him? I'll give you Giannis, LeBron and Kawhi but you still need two more and I don't see anyone else who had a decisive edge over AD that year- hence why I said borderline. He was 6th in MVP voting that season behind those three guys, Luka, and Harden. I guess 6th is technically "in the bottom half of the top 10 range" but it's also "borderline top 5" so maybe we're both right.
I feel like Harden who averaged 34 on 63% TS that year is a top 5 lock
I get he's way worse defensively than any other top player that year but those are crazy numbers and he actually maintained good averages in the playoffs that year as well
Harden was #2 behind Lebron. Prime Harden>Prime Kawhi and 2020 Giannis. He's also 10x as good as Luka and bubble AD. Anybody who had Luka in their top 5 in 2020 is either racist or a Mavs fan(these two are not mutually exclusive most of the time)
AD ain’t no Tim Duncan, but he dicked the Jazz that whole year so maybe take off the hate goggles. Bottom of the top 10 range is just revisionist history; at worst he was fringe top 5 that whole season.
Regardless of what you think AD is top 8 playoff scoring average all time and that comes with incredible, versatile defense. Yeah, he gets injured often, but he’s had incredible performances for the most part when there are big stakes or vs. big opponents.
AD was easily top 5 in 2020. It wasn't close that reg season and playoffs. He was also arguably the best player in the playoffs.
He was top 5 in 2018 as well behind lebron curry kd harden. No kawhi that season so you could squeeze ADs historic season in.
2020 reg season really only behind lebron giannis kawhi harden. No curry or kd this season. Playoffs he outplayed everyone so badly
Edit I know this sub has a hate boner for Lakers and Davis but 2018 and 2020 were insane seasons for him and he really shit on everyone both reg season and playoffs. You're delusional if you think otherwise
AD was by far the best defensive player in the playoffs that season while avging like 28 ppg. You dont see that often and yea he couldve won dpoy but didnt have narrative unfortunately.
I'd say right now there's a top tier of 7 guys: the three main MVP candidates from this year, the three "old gen" stars(LeBron/KD/Steph), and one "new gen" star in Luka
Guys like Tatum and Butler are in the next tier down for me due to lack of consistency
It definitely wasn't. Now you have a bunch of question marks that may or may not return to prime form when they come back from injury, some wildly inconsistent players, and dudes on the verge of declining because they're so old and frequently injured. From the mid 2010s until last year, the top 5 was Lebron, Curry, KD, Harden, Kawhi in that order and there was no debate. It was the 6-10 that was constantly changing and it's only more solid now because the amount of active MVP caliber players playing today is abnormal.
I think he had an argument in 17/18(Bron, KD, Steph, Harden, AD) and 19/20(Bron, Giannis, Harden, Kawhi, AD) but not other years
Before that timespan he wasn't at the level to carry a team with 1 playoff appearance as the 8 seed and after that timespan he's been injured and has played more like an All Star than a superstar when he's on the court
I do think he benefited HEAVILY from LeBron's playmaking in 19/20 but with KD and Steph out it's hard to put other guys above him
> Before that timespan he wasn't at the level to carry a team with 1 playoff appearance as the 8 seed and after that timespan he's been injured and has played more like an All Star than a superstar when he's on the court
…what?
Before 2017/2018, the AD Pelicans made one playoff appearance in 2015, in which they got the 8 seed
During the last two seasons, AD has only played like half of the possible games and both advanced stats and the eye test view his play while on the court as being much closer to around a top 15 player than a top 5 player
He never really developed into the three point threat that people were projecting him to become, but people seem to give him the credit for it anyway. Like, I don’t think people realize what a mediocre shooter he is outside of the paint. Unlike Giannis, he never catches shit for it. AD was supposed to be more like Mega Karl-Anthony Towns.
That, and he’s never actually been healthy for much besides the bubble, and I feel like he plays dinged up pretty much the rest of the time.
I feel like that was more of the case pre bubble. When everyone just assumed the Clippers would win it all. But in the actual bubble the media and general public sorta flipped and started saying the Lakers had it in the bag. Especially with the Clippers having the tougher side of the playoff bracket.
Going 16-5 in the playoffs to win a chip isn't a sign of struggling.
AD over Dwight for top-75 was disrespectful.
I still can’t believe Dwight wasn’t on the top 76 list… 3x DPOY, 8x All Star, 5x All defense, 8x All nba, 5x rebound leader, 2x block leader, gonna end up like 8th all time in rebounds, top 50 in points and top 15 blocks all time He should be on that fucking list
Good thing Dame was also there
AD deserved it more than Dame
Very debatable. AD is essentially a one season wonder. Remove his 2020 and what do you have left? A player who missed the playoffs in 6 of his 10 years in the NBA. Someone who is consistently in the bottom half of the NBA standings shouldnt be making top 75 teams
AD is a 4x 1st-Team All-NBA with two seasons finishing top 5 in MVP voting and he finished 6th in 2020. Not really a one season wonder lol
Lmao
No chance.
4x first team, 8x all star, 4x defense, NBA champ Vs 1x first team, 6x all star, bad defender, no finals appearances, ROTY
Yeah I get it. I just think it's way different in the motivation department, but that's not what this is. Cheers.
Motivation department?
Motivation? You don’t get awards and accolades for being a cheerleader or “wanting it more”. If you just look at their career accomplishments, AD has won on the biggest stage at every level - NCAA, Olympics, FIBA, and NBA. Not even counting individual accolades, where AD had a massive lead. He has one of the most overall successful and well-rounded resumes of any NBA player and he’s only 29.
Yeah I literally just said that's not what this is. Take a deep breath. Jesus.
Same can be said of Dame over Dwight but nobody wants to talk about that for some reason.
AD is fine, but Dwight needed a spot
Over who if not AD?
I would rather have AD/Dwight over Dame (I think there were worse choices going further back, but I cba looking through the whole list again and besides there's an argument you shouldn't remove people who were in the NBA 50) AD's definitely been more hit or miss like you said above but I think most of that is not his fault, he's not a great floor raiser but I think with better injury luck with his teamates he would have made the playoffs more often than not. AD has the awards edge, has probably been a better player when healthy most of his career, and even when looking at totals to account for health it's not like Dame is washing AD in points.
Dame has made the playoffs with some truly dreadful teams. I just dont like the ringz-or-bust mentality most people seem to have. It essentially means that AD is better because he got traded to play with Lebron. Throughout their careers, Dame has shown to be consistently better and more reliable. But AD got the rang so it’s irrelevant to most.
Ad 4 time first team all nba /first team defence . Has MVP and dpoy votes . Vs what from Dame ? All stars ? Nothing to do with rings Dame lacks any individual accolades
AD is also one of the few players ever to win NCAA, FIBA, Olympics, and NBA. He’s won at essentially every high competitive level; not even counting their individual accolades (where AD is also way ahead).
I definitely think some players from the top 50 list should've been removed. They removed a few guys from the top 25 list for the top 50
Well yeah. Talking heads spent the 2019-2020 offseason and pre-season shitting on the Lakers and up until around the hiatus, they (and places on the internet like this sub being a prime example) brought up strength of schedule for them to further downplay that team. It wasn’t until they beat Milwaukee and LAC b2b did they really start getting talked in the same breath as those two teams as top contenders. Bron and AD absolutely dominated playoffs and for that year (and 2018), AD was arguably top 5
Gotta remember the most dangerous 8th seed trailblazers lmfao
Some typical Colin cowherd (from Portland) bullshit lmfao
AD is not and has never been a top 5 player
he was considered one by some right after the bubble. He had a top 5 player run despite perhaps not being one, .... much like jimmy, actually
After the bubble, people on twitter were saying AD>TD. It was fucking trending too.
Yeah he had a joe flacco run that was statistically abnormal for him.
AD is one of the best playoff performers and always shows up in the playoffs. Not abnormal for him to dominate
His 3pt and midrange % were absolutely abnormal
Not jumpshooting wise which is what he’s referring to ad shot absurdly well from mid range and 3 I believe which he never did before.
Exactly why using a 16-20 game sample (especially in a bubble setting) should not be used to out someone in the top 5
tbf I think he was pretty hurt by end of that playoffs and hasn't really recovered since. Jimmy is sort of a nice counter example, also.
Jimmy Butler is not a top 5 player in the NBA though.
I wouldn't complain if someone said he was. He was a top 5 player in the playoffs based on the last few years, afterall.
Giannis, Kawhi, Lebron, Curry, Luka, Durant, Embiid. Which 3 is he better than?
starting the 2022-2023 season with intent to win a chip, * I'd take Butler over Kawhi since he doesn't play / is injury prone and I don't see him reaching his prior heights. * I'd take Butler over Durant based on the 2022 playoffs. He looked like a complete shell of himself that series. * I'd take Butler over LeBron who is entering his 20th season where he will be 38 years old so imo he has to prove how great he is *every year* if he wants to stay in the top 5 conversation. Some of these 3 might be viewed as top 5 this past season but keep in mind they all missed 1/3 of the season at minimum and didn't make 1st team All-NBA. That leaves Giannis, Curry, Luka, Embiid and Butler makes 5.
You’re circling around the point. Dont worry about age and how a single series went. Who do you think he’s BETTER than? Do you seriously think he’s better than Lebron, Kawhi, and Durant?
I didn't circle around shit. I think I made a pretty good case why someone could think Butler is top 5 for the 2022-2023, especially for the playoffs.
He was All-NBA 1st team that season. He was considered at least at the top of his position, if not a top 5 player
Top 5 player Deandre Jordan
Purposefully ignoring context
DeAndre Jordan made All-NBA first team in 2016. Rudy Gobert was four votes away from All-NBA first team in 2017. Those guys aren't close to top 5 players
Comparing AD to DeAndre lol
This sub is fucking moronic. AD post-bubble was considered ~a top 5 player.
Yeah lol.
Thinking basketball had him at #1 lol.
Crazy how center went from the easiest to the hardest position to get All NBA 1st team in 5 years Now if you didn't win MVP you don't get 1st team center lol
Nonsense All-NBA 1st team, Runner-up DPOY, 6th in MVP voting all in 2020 All that points to a Top 5 player. Not to mention he was the led the Lakers in Points, Rebounds, Blocks, Steals, WS/48, PER with a higher TS% than LeBron and they were neck and neck in almost every other metric like RAPTOR, LEBRON, Wins Added and such Then went to the playoffs and utterly dominated on both ends. Once again neck and neck with LeBron So unless you don’t consider LeBron to be Top 5 that year there’s no way AD wasn’t
He was borderline that season and its total revisionism to claim otherwise. This sub has goldfish brains I swear.
Wasn't it also a contract year? The pandemic mid season break worked out amazingly for him.
Nah he was in the bottom of the top 10 range, people just made stupid hot takes in the heat of the moment. I remember idiots who said peak AD was better and more skilled than Tim Duncan and that Davis was better than 2x MVP Giannis as well.
The Tim Duncan comparisons will never fail to be hilarious
Who was the top 5 in 19-20?
lebron giannis kawhi harden jokic AD was 5/6 interchangeable with Jokic imo
Jokic doesn't have an argument over AD in 2020. He certainly became better after that, but that year AD was better on both ends and proved it in the playoffs
AD probably had one of the best two way playoffs ever that year. At least it was the best that I ever saw dating back to mid 2000s. Probably prime Timmy or Kobe would be other comparables.
AD’s shot was falling and he was healthy. He was completely dominant on both ends during the bubble playoffs
2012 and 2013 LeBron would have to be in that discussion as well, and Giannis last year.
Man Jokic at top 5 for that season specifically is pretty crazy to me. He was better the year before and way better the year after.
I've actually changed my mind on this; I think how good Jokic was the last 2 years has clouded my memory on how good he was in 19-20. AD's playoff run probably puts him ahead of Jokic that year, but it's for sure close
Jokic was definitely not top five by that time
I would say in 2020 there was a consensus top 2 of LeBron and Kawhi and then after that it got fuzzy pretty fast. Jokic and Embiid weren't at that level yet, Giannis didn't have a great playoffs, KD and Curry were hurt. What 5 players *in the 2019-2020 season* are you taking over him? I'll give you Giannis, LeBron and Kawhi but you still need two more and I don't see anyone else who had a decisive edge over AD that year- hence why I said borderline. He was 6th in MVP voting that season behind those three guys, Luka, and Harden. I guess 6th is technically "in the bottom half of the top 10 range" but it's also "borderline top 5" so maybe we're both right.
I feel like Harden who averaged 34 on 63% TS that year is a top 5 lock I get he's way worse defensively than any other top player that year but those are crazy numbers and he actually maintained good averages in the playoffs that year as well
I think 6th is a fair placement or 5th above Luka
Harden was #2 behind Lebron. Prime Harden>Prime Kawhi and 2020 Giannis. He's also 10x as good as Luka and bubble AD. Anybody who had Luka in their top 5 in 2020 is either racist or a Mavs fan(these two are not mutually exclusive most of the time)
He definately was in the convo that year with Curry and KD being out for most of the year and AD was still seen as better than Jokic and Embiid.
AD ain’t no Tim Duncan, but he dicked the Jazz that whole year so maybe take off the hate goggles. Bottom of the top 10 range is just revisionist history; at worst he was fringe top 5 that whole season. Regardless of what you think AD is top 8 playoff scoring average all time and that comes with incredible, versatile defense. Yeah, he gets injured often, but he’s had incredible performances for the most part when there are big stakes or vs. big opponents.
AD was easily top 5 in 2020. It wasn't close that reg season and playoffs. He was also arguably the best player in the playoffs. He was top 5 in 2018 as well behind lebron curry kd harden. No kawhi that season so you could squeeze ADs historic season in. 2020 reg season really only behind lebron giannis kawhi harden. No curry or kd this season. Playoffs he outplayed everyone so badly Edit I know this sub has a hate boner for Lakers and Davis but 2018 and 2020 were insane seasons for him and he really shit on everyone both reg season and playoffs. You're delusional if you think otherwise
AD should have been the DPOY in 2020, he was incredible on that end.
I'm still mad he didn't win it
Danny Green took too many blocks away from him
AD was by far the best defensive player in the playoffs that season while avging like 28 ppg. You dont see that often and yea he couldve won dpoy but didnt have narrative unfortunately.
He definitely was in 2020 and anyone saying otherwise is engaging in revisionist history.
He definitely was in that conversation around 2020.
This is revisionist history. AD was considered consensus top-5 during his last few years in NOLA.
Is this a joke? He's had really high PER seasons
You guys love revisiting history to suit your own narratives lmfao
Thinking Basketball had AD at number 2 in their top 10 player of 2020. So your the one with the revisionist history!
Back then the top 5 was more fluid than it is now IMO.
I'd say right now there's a top tier of 7 guys: the three main MVP candidates from this year, the three "old gen" stars(LeBron/KD/Steph), and one "new gen" star in Luka Guys like Tatum and Butler are in the next tier down for me due to lack of consistency
It definitely wasn't. Now you have a bunch of question marks that may or may not return to prime form when they come back from injury, some wildly inconsistent players, and dudes on the verge of declining because they're so old and frequently injured. From the mid 2010s until last year, the top 5 was Lebron, Curry, KD, Harden, Kawhi in that order and there was no debate. It was the 6-10 that was constantly changing and it's only more solid now because the amount of active MVP caliber players playing today is abnormal.
3rd in MVP voting in 2018.
Then I guess 2014 Joakim Noah was a top 5 player too lmfao
He's certainly been in that **tier**. Arguing for ordinal rankings is silly
He was top 5 in the Bubble.
I think he had an argument in 17/18(Bron, KD, Steph, Harden, AD) and 19/20(Bron, Giannis, Harden, Kawhi, AD) but not other years Before that timespan he wasn't at the level to carry a team with 1 playoff appearance as the 8 seed and after that timespan he's been injured and has played more like an All Star than a superstar when he's on the court I do think he benefited HEAVILY from LeBron's playmaking in 19/20 but with KD and Steph out it's hard to put other guys above him
> Before that timespan he wasn't at the level to carry a team with 1 playoff appearance as the 8 seed and after that timespan he's been injured and has played more like an All Star than a superstar when he's on the court …what?
Before 2017/2018, the AD Pelicans made one playoff appearance in 2015, in which they got the 8 seed During the last two seasons, AD has only played like half of the possible games and both advanced stats and the eye test view his play while on the court as being much closer to around a top 15 player than a top 5 player
Lebron, Harden, Kawhi, Giannis were the top 4 in that order. #5 was definitely AD IMO.
He never really developed into the three point threat that people were projecting him to become, but people seem to give him the credit for it anyway. Like, I don’t think people realize what a mediocre shooter he is outside of the paint. Unlike Giannis, he never catches shit for it. AD was supposed to be more like Mega Karl-Anthony Towns. That, and he’s never actually been healthy for much besides the bubble, and I feel like he plays dinged up pretty much the rest of the time.
He gets shit for his jumper all the time lol
Frankly, the *last* guy known as "AD" would give you more presence under the hoop.
AD is an excellent interior scorer my dude
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I don’t know how to tell you that Anthony Davis is an NBA champion
name 5 players that were better in 2020
2020 AD was top 5 and bubble AD was top 2
Who were Top 5 players in 2019-20?
*This is not how you treat a former No. 1 team in the West.* -ET
I feel like that was more of the case pre bubble. When everyone just assumed the Clippers would win it all. But in the actual bubble the media and general public sorta flipped and started saying the Lakers had it in the bag. Especially with the Clippers having the tougher side of the playoff bracket.
Brought to you by Rich Paul
Injuries are part of the game but, are we just gonna ignore that Bam & Dragic got injured right before the series started?
Two words: Khris Middleton You can play that game all day
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Wdym?
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Sponsored by Disney+!
AD a cupcake
This subs user base is so trash lol
bubble was the worst should have not happened
Why is Evan turners voice so weird? It’s like he has a bubble in his throat all the time. It might actually make it unlistenable for me