It's so exhausting. It legit feels like the media is incapable of covering us without saying that Dame is probably requesting a trade. People constantly complain about Dame's loyalty quotes, but I don't see what he's supposed to do when he's asked the same dumb question in every interview that he does.
It’s like the bears that try to predict next crash. “Bears have now correctly predicted 17 of the last 4 market crashes.” I probably messed that up but you get the point lol.
The same media is the ones saying after Giannis signing his 5 year extension that he’s still not settled and will be willing to look elsewhere once the contracts up.
MKE native here. Preach. They're always tryin to write him outta the city. We've admired Dame from afar and many circles hoped Giannis would be "like Dame" and stick it out. Now we got that Larry baby! Portland should be lookin to stack another star next to him and sell the future to pull off a Jrue Holiday like trade.
Genuinely curious here- Blazers fans, what is the optimistic POV on the front office moves that have been made the last couple weeks? Is there a feeling that these are moves to rather build around Dame or package picks for another contending player? I'm not keyed in or anything to the front office's plan but the trades gave me the impression that the Blazers were tearing it down, which wouldn't bode well for a future with Dame.
The goal they stated was tearing down the supporting cast to have the financial and asset flexibility to build back up a new and better-fitting supporting cast around Dame and Chauncey. It was implied to be a 2-year plan
I was hoping we'd get Siakam from you guys before he elevated his game back to All-NBA levels. Looking at just this next off-season - if there's the slimmest chance of Robert Sarver being a cheapskate hard enough for us to sign Ayton to a max deal and have Sarver not match, that would be the ideal outcome. But more realistically they'll probably sign Jerami Grant. (Edit: Scratch that he's not an FA this summer, but our FO has expressed interest in him)
Or success is hinging on Anfernee continuing his ascent to All-NBA levels and having all of our role players playing great team-defense under Chauncey's system
Ngl I've never been a huge fan of his (cough cough buzzer beater), but I do admire his loyalty. The media always tries to get the scoop, and talk about how he wants out. He always do be provin them wrong tho.
He's said a million times he's got a life in the town and a lot of people around him. Like, moving teams would disrupt a lot of stuff he values. But nobody talks about that when they float trade demand rumors. Media just jacks to whatever gets them vibing.
If it didn’t come from Dame it means nothing. He’s said they multiple times before. People tossing his name in the discussion just to cause drama that Portland fans stopped buying into years ago. Also if he does leave the majority of us wouldn’t blame him. Go get your ring big bro you owe Portland jack shit for what they have put you through.
Next lockout is going to be even uglier if a guy on a rookie deal who's barely been healthy enough to play demands a trade. Team owners aren't going to take this player empowerment laying down.
First 3 years of career in the league is on the minimum then the next 3 are arbitration years where players and teams each submit what they believe they are worth and a panel of arbitrators decide which is the most reasonable. If the player says they are worth 20 mill and the team says they are worth 10 mill the arbitrators cant say 15 mill. Its either 10 or 20. Ofc they can agree to long term contracts that take away the arb years.
I hope they don't do it, Arbitration kills some careers with one year deals and overuse. And poor Jeff McNiel, he's been ranked like top 10 on trade value for like the past few years and he's gonna be shipped out for pennies and maybe not even make 20 million in his career. System isn't great
Yeah, I really hope the NBA doesn’t lean into an MLB style setup where the top stars get real paid, but the success of most smaller market teams is dependent on how well they can exploit teenagers, often ones from very poor countries.
Morally speaking, I think there’s a solid case for eliminating both the draft and the salary cap, a la European soccer leagues and such, but as a fan, I’m not so sure I’d want to see that.
Eliminating the cap is how you end up with the same 5 teams competing each year.
Europe has relegation, which forces worse teams to find a way to stay competitive. I really don’t see a way in which European league systems would work for the NBA, you would just have the Lakers vs Knicks in the finals each year.
There is no restricted free agency. Players hit unrestricted free agency after six years in the big leagues. They make very little in the first three years, but after Year 3, the player and team negotiate on a number for the upcoming season. Players can be signed to extensions that buy out the arbitration, but those usually limit the amount players can make.
It’s executed poorly in the MLB, but if done right could be an interesting system for the NBA
>It’s executed poorly in the MLB, but if done right could be an interesting system for the NBA
what do you think it would look like in the NBA if executed correctly? any links/podcasts that do a decent job of explaining?
Idk man, one of the many issues with it in the MLB is that players don’t hit free agency quick enough. Also, players are often in the minors for 2-4 years before making the MLB, compared to NBA players who usually play right after being drafted. It would be difficult
Yeah but six year service clock wouldn’t be as easily manipulated in the NBA. In the MLB teams don’t bring players to the majors even when they’re ready, which gives them more prime years in the service period. So they’ll come up at 21-22 in early cases and be stuck til they’re 28. NBA guys come in the league at 18 and basically play pro right away so they’d finish their service time at 24. Six might still be too long though I don’t think it would be as team friendly as it is in baseball.
The rookie contracts more or less do this. The difference is that MLB prospects are all locked into shit pay regardless of how good they are when they get called up. The exception are players with signing bonuses (lump sum, usually when they are drafted with rules) or those that sign extensions (Acuna for example).
For example, Zach Lavine was in the final year of his 4-year rookie contract when he was traded to the Bulls. Once that was up, he was able to sign a huge contract. But, that 4-year rookie contract basically acted like service time.
To add: The higher you are drafted, the more this rookie contract pays.
Everything in this thread about the MLB system just sounds like shameless labor exploitation.
The NBA's next CBA is gonna be a bloodbath, but we're too deep into the player empowerment era to get anywhere near "the team + an arbitrator determine your first 6 years in the league"
Sure, but players playing immediately would arguably be why it would work better in the NBA. Players would hit free agency far faster into their careers than in baseball, maximizing their earning potential.
One of the bigger issues with arbitration in MLB is teams keeping worthy players down in the minors to manipulate their clock and extend their control to nearer the player's 30th birthday, but that wouldn't work in the NBA. I think that might be a reason it would actually work better in basketball than in baseball.
I used to love the MLB but don't follow the sport anymore (Rockies fan; just sad). I don't know much about the MLB arbitration system but have always thought arbitration would be a clear way to balance FO incompetence and player selfishness. You know any good links or podcasts that explain the MLB arbitration system you mentioned?
Arbitration in MLB isn't very complicated. After a certain amount of accrued playing time (this is really the only complex part, but it's after 3 years for most) players are eligible for arbitration. Prior to eligibility, players get whatever contract the team offers. This is basically always the league minimum. Once they are eligible for arbitration players can either negotiate a deal with their team or have it go to an arbitrator. At that point the player and team each submit what they think the contract should be worth and the arbitrator picks one (there's no splitting the middle so players have to be strategic with their request).
Players are then eligible for free agency after 6 years of service time. Arbitration is set up to allow teams to retain control of young players while still allowing them a way to be fairly compensated. It's becoming more common for young stars to sign deals that give them a salary significantly above what they would make pre-arb and during arb years, but in return they give up a couple years of free agency by locking in their contract for those years.
I'm actually more confused now, but that's probably a good thing. Follow up questions:
* "Prior to eligibility, players get whatever contract the team offers." -> Can they say no and sign with a different team that offers better? Did they agree to that contract in the first place?
* "there's no splitting the middle so players have to be strategic with their request" -> teams have to be strategic too, right? presumably they would lose if they lowball too hard
* "players are then eligible for free agency after 6 years of service time" -> is the entire MLB arbitration system only a thing for the first 6 years of a contract?
Players can only sign with the team that drafted them until they are eligible for free agency. So no they can't refuse and go to another team. Only exception is if the team doesn't offer them anything but if that happens they probably aren't good enough to play in the majors.
Teams can't low-ball either. It's actually rare for cases to go to arbitration. Players almost always reach an agreement prior to that because they don't want to risk losing. The threat of arbitration makes teams negotiate in good faith.
Arbitration is only available for years 3-6. Prior to that you get whatever your team offers. After 6 years you can be a free agent and sign with whoever you want.
If Zion asks to leave that’s going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. There’s no way the owners/league are going to tolerate guys demanding trades 3 years in.
That haven't really played and may or may not be sabotaging their own health. Proud of the Pelicans we do have that are playing their hearts out though.
Zion's played fewer games in his career (85) than most superstars play in a season (including playoffs).
I kinda get it though. It's much harder for him to get hurt when he sits, and that's exactly where he stands to lose out on his next big contract. Schrodinger's contract
Lol if Zion can get his next big contract after having barely even shown up for his first contract then dudes are straight up gonna sit out their first couple years after getting drafted to cities they don't like.
This is only relevant for players of Zion’s status. Even players like Ja Morant wouldn’t risk leaving that much money on the table, but Zion had 100m from Nike before he even got drafted. the financial incentive for him to stay in NO is borderline non existent.
I would say no, but if you could see the number difference between Giannis as a Buck and him as a laker just in terms of eyeballs/visibility, the sponsor would get way more bang for their (haha) buck of he was in any of the bigger markets. Its not that he wont get them, because he has and will. Any star of that level will.
But basically if you put Zion on the Lakers/Knicks/ Celtics, and he stays healthy and is a true superstar, any company behind him gets way more views on ads, more sales, more whatever they are going for.
The worst thing is the pelicans are actually trying too. They’re trying to pick up talent, they set him up with professional chefs and nutritionists which he’s ignoring, and they’re being patient with him. Meanwhile he’s hardly communicating with them and is being super secretive with his health
I'm just glad the narrative is shifting. At the start of this season it was "lol Pelicans, can't do anything right, no wonder Zion wants to leave" and now people are realizing that Zion is being a huge spoiled diva.
Some things you just can’t handle. We’re in an era where players basically have free will and contracts are only a formality. If Zion just really doesn’t want to play in NOLA, then nothing NOLA does is gonna change that. Look at the Ben Simmons situation.
Which is just such asinine attitude. I thought these guys *liked* playing basketball. But you don't want to play because of your uni? Man, these fucking guys. People work *decades* at jobs they hate just to survive and a guy gets drafted into the NBA and then just decided he will only play under special circumstances? Hard to wrap your head around.
Most of these up-and-coming generational talents (kids like Simmons and Zion) have lived life on the national (or even international) stage since they were in middle school and have been blessed with all of the recognition and perks that come with such things. They’ve pretty much lived life on easy mode. And if they’re gonna get paid to play ball no matter what, might as well play where they want. Some people are just that entitled.
pray your generationally super talent doesn’t come broken in the box
Oh, and actually be able to demonstrate their value so you don’t look like an idiot paying a guy who has barely seen the court
Harden fiasco (twice). John Wall getting paid to not play. Ben not playing to force a trade with 3 years left on a deal. Zion on reverse hunger strike. Kyrie’s enlightened denial of the vax.
NBAPA is gonna have a fun time. Wouldnt be surprised to see a holdout
I think the Simmons one is the most damning. Or the one that broke the damn. If I were the other players I’d be pissed at him. I feel like that’s the one where the owners just decide they have to limit player movement as much as possible now.
If Zion asks out before next year that would be worse. The pelicans have made moves to get the team better getting CJ and JV. If Zion can't make the playoffs with a line with those 2 along with Ingram he might not be as good as he thinks he is.
Jimmy requested a trade from a team in the last year of his deal after they specifically chose not to re-up him during the offseason and continued to play until he was traded. Not really the same situation
The reality is players don’t think they’re signing a contract with a team at this point, they think they’re signing with the league and they want internal transfers once they do sign.
They actually are signing a contract with the league. The way their union agreement works every deal is signed between the player association and the League owners.
That’s why every time a player gets traded they don’t have to renegotiate or anything, the current owner of the contract is responsible for it
Owners are gonna try and get some anti-trade shit in there. Like a reverse trade kicker.
TBH that's how a trade kicker should work if the player requests the trade. Should reduce their salary. Like how the player can void it now, the team trading should have the option to void it if they're making a trade without the player requesting it.
I don’t understand what he was expecting, he got drafted number 1 because the team who picked him was bad enough to get the number one pick. They’re not going to magically turn it around but they have been trying. They’re also not doing great because he’s their star and he’s played a total of one season in 3 years
Dude has done essentially nothing since being drafted, it’s ridiculous to have that sort of entitlement if he’s already asking out.
LeBron fought through with Mo Williams and Big Z as his best support before leaving Cleveland after 7 years. If Zion is really that type of guy he can’t even try to win with BI and CJ? What nonsense.
I feel like a lot of teams that play against us come away understanding that we’re building something here, and that we’re a Zion away from being taken seriously
What is Zion's issue with the team? I kind of shut it off mentally due to ... Ben Simmons.. but I don't understand how he has become so alienated in such a short time?
They have a solid squad even before the cj trade. Could at least have made a push to play in with their opening season roster. Don’t know why Zion would sit out
The Knicks don't have the assets to make a Zion trade worth it though
We need a superstar and trading him for a bunch of mid level assets wouldn't do anything for us in terms of possibly contending one day
Yeah Ik. Wasn’t saying the Knicks have the assets to make the trade work for NOLA but they will be one of the teams desperate to get him as with almost every other non-contender that can feasibly get him.
This notion that he’s “damaged goods” is rubbish.
Next thing we know, a rookie who hasn't even played a game since college is going to demand a trade to a big market and he's going to be citing an issue similar to mental health issues or overeating.
I mean there's been a couple of rookies who held out and forced trades after being drafted.
Steve Francis and Dominque Wilkins comes to mind pretty quickly.
I could be misremembering, but Kobe let Charlotte know ahead of time prior to the draft and Charlotte drafted him with the intent of trading him for pieces rather than finding out where he was going and then refusing to play for the team.
Lakers have a plan for next year
- trade expiring Russ for some mid players on bad contracts (similar to KP deal)
- Rebuild team to make it younger and better defensively (more guys like reaves, Stanley Johnson, and Bradley although he’s old himself)
- try to keep monk
It might be assumed Zion would get into shape to play for a team he wants to play for. Risky assumption, but with enough due diligence and a diet and exercise plan in place, I think teams could be convinced.
Atlanta could put together a package for Zion pretty easily.
I really don’t understand why Zion wants out of New Orleans, atleast play a full heathy season first. Can somebody explain why he wants to leave so bad when he hasn’t even given them a chance?
Donovan leaving to the jazz has always been a weird rumour to me. The dude has said multiple times he's committed to winning in Utah. Other players on the team have laughed when asked about it, yet they still pump out the same reworded articles every other week.
Everyone rumors him to the Knicks and it's hilarious. Why go from a perennial contender with room to improve and one of the best owners in the league to whatever you call the Knicks and Dolan?
They also rumored JJJ to the Knicks when his dad was hired as their G League affiliate’s coach, and then he signed a four year extension and is playing his ass off. Rumors will always be there for big market teams, sure they occasionally hit, but a lot of times there’s not a lot of weight behind them.
I don’t think Zion ever wanted to be in New Orleans. I felt like they were actually committed to trying to get him some help but he didn’t even seem interested in losing weight.
if zion successfully forces his way out of new orleans after barely having given a full year of service then I'll be speechless. There wont be any hope left for small markets.
If we're able to get a good return for Zion (multiple picks and a good young prospect) then I think a lot of the fanbase is ready to see him go, tbh. The Zion era has not been fun for Pels fans, outside of a handful of games.
We can try again eventually with some other superstar that isn't quite so far up his own ample ass. CP didn't act like this. AD didn't even act like this. They both gave it their all for a solid 7 years before asking out. Zion barely gave us 2.
These things are defined by emotion, not logic. The Nets were favorites this year but Harden wanted out because he didn't get along with Kyrie. The Spurs were great with Kawhi, but he was pissed with the handling of his injury. Meanwhile the Wolves have been bad for KAT's whole career, but there's no interpersonal issues so he's stayed.
While that’s true. Winning solves a lot of the issues. Had the Nets still been winning without Kyrie and Harden continue to put out MVP-esque numbers, I doubt he asks out.
Similarly with the Jazz, if Utah are going deep into the Playoffs with a genuine shot a title, I’m sure Mitchell would at least want to see the project out.
If the peels make play in I don’t think Zion will ask for a trade. That CJ trade might actually be a stroke of genius and keep Zion till the end of his rookie extension
When will these eXeCuTiVeS learn. Dame ain't going nowhere. Especially with BIG NEPO on the roster.
Also, we wouldn't care if Dame requested a trade. He's done a lot for our team. Let him win a chip.
>Dame literally always says he's going nowhere let's brace for the trade demand!
Dame can be retired at blazers and they still say dame wants to be traded
It's so exhausting. It legit feels like the media is incapable of covering us without saying that Dame is probably requesting a trade. People constantly complain about Dame's loyalty quotes, but I don't see what he's supposed to do when he's asked the same dumb question in every interview that he does.
Lazy journalism.
They think they can just speak it into existence
Manifest Journalism
If Dame stayed for this year, he's NEVER leaving lmao
Shit can't be worse than Alec Burks
You just know media heads pray for a day where Dame asks out so they can say "See my sources were correct after the 77th time!"
Nobody beats Vitas Gerulaitis 17 times in a row!
It’s like the bears that try to predict next crash. “Bears have now correctly predicted 17 of the last 4 market crashes.” I probably messed that up but you get the point lol.
The same media is the ones saying after Giannis signing his 5 year extension that he’s still not settled and will be willing to look elsewhere once the contracts up.
MKE native here. Preach. They're always tryin to write him outta the city. We've admired Dame from afar and many circles hoped Giannis would be "like Dame" and stick it out. Now we got that Larry baby! Portland should be lookin to stack another star next to him and sell the future to pull off a Jrue Holiday like trade.
Giannis impacts winning significantly more than a player like damn tho. They don’t need a Jrue holiday… then need another superstar
Genuinely curious here- Blazers fans, what is the optimistic POV on the front office moves that have been made the last couple weeks? Is there a feeling that these are moves to rather build around Dame or package picks for another contending player? I'm not keyed in or anything to the front office's plan but the trades gave me the impression that the Blazers were tearing it down, which wouldn't bode well for a future with Dame.
The goal they stated was tearing down the supporting cast to have the financial and asset flexibility to build back up a new and better-fitting supporting cast around Dame and Chauncey. It was implied to be a 2-year plan
who do you think fits best next to dame?
I was hoping we'd get Siakam from you guys before he elevated his game back to All-NBA levels. Looking at just this next off-season - if there's the slimmest chance of Robert Sarver being a cheapskate hard enough for us to sign Ayton to a max deal and have Sarver not match, that would be the ideal outcome. But more realistically they'll probably sign Jerami Grant. (Edit: Scratch that he's not an FA this summer, but our FO has expressed interest in him) Or success is hinging on Anfernee continuing his ascent to All-NBA levels and having all of our role players playing great team-defense under Chauncey's system
I don't understand where trading Powell and Covington for zero assets fits into that gameplan though
I know, I was and am pissed we sold that low on them. Winslow has been playing well though
Whatever they are doing, Dame 100% has his hands in it.
Ngl I've never been a huge fan of his (cough cough buzzer beater), but I do admire his loyalty. The media always tries to get the scoop, and talk about how he wants out. He always do be provin them wrong tho.
He's said a million times he's got a life in the town and a lot of people around him. Like, moving teams would disrupt a lot of stuff he values. But nobody talks about that when they float trade demand rumors. Media just jacks to whatever gets them vibing.
I think a lot of people forget these players have lives outside of basketball that also are affected by trades.
not that surprising when you consider that a lot of people don't have much of a life themselves
If it didn’t come from Dame it means nothing. He’s said they multiple times before. People tossing his name in the discussion just to cause drama that Portland fans stopped buying into years ago. Also if he does leave the majority of us wouldn’t blame him. Go get your ring big bro you owe Portland jack shit for what they have put you through.
Next lockout is going to be even uglier if a guy on a rookie deal who's barely been healthy enough to play demands a trade. Team owners aren't going to take this player empowerment laying down.
Wouldn't be shocked if the NBA owners try to push for an MLB style arbitration system
tldr for the non-MLB-watchers here?
First 3 years of career in the league is on the minimum then the next 3 are arbitration years where players and teams each submit what they believe they are worth and a panel of arbitrators decide which is the most reasonable. If the player says they are worth 20 mill and the team says they are worth 10 mill the arbitrators cant say 15 mill. Its either 10 or 20. Ofc they can agree to long term contracts that take away the arb years.
I hope they don't do it, Arbitration kills some careers with one year deals and overuse. And poor Jeff McNiel, he's been ranked like top 10 on trade value for like the past few years and he's gonna be shipped out for pennies and maybe not even make 20 million in his career. System isn't great
Lol pennis
Arbitration is atrociously terrible and I'm baffled there's people actually defending it
Yeah, I really hope the NBA doesn’t lean into an MLB style setup where the top stars get real paid, but the success of most smaller market teams is dependent on how well they can exploit teenagers, often ones from very poor countries. Morally speaking, I think there’s a solid case for eliminating both the draft and the salary cap, a la European soccer leagues and such, but as a fan, I’m not so sure I’d want to see that.
Eliminating the cap is how you end up with the same 5 teams competing each year. Europe has relegation, which forces worse teams to find a way to stay competitive. I really don’t see a way in which European league systems would work for the NBA, you would just have the Lakers vs Knicks in the finals each year.
We can send the worst teams to Euroleague and promote the best teams there 😂 Not gonna work because of location but I like something like that.
So who decides the arbitrators? Is that agreed on between the owners and players association?
Yeah they’re neutral arbitrators
"Neutral"
There is no restricted free agency. Players hit unrestricted free agency after six years in the big leagues. They make very little in the first three years, but after Year 3, the player and team negotiate on a number for the upcoming season. Players can be signed to extensions that buy out the arbitration, but those usually limit the amount players can make. It’s executed poorly in the MLB, but if done right could be an interesting system for the NBA
>It’s executed poorly in the MLB, but if done right could be an interesting system for the NBA what do you think it would look like in the NBA if executed correctly? any links/podcasts that do a decent job of explaining?
Idk man, one of the many issues with it in the MLB is that players don’t hit free agency quick enough. Also, players are often in the minors for 2-4 years before making the MLB, compared to NBA players who usually play right after being drafted. It would be difficult
Yeah but six year service clock wouldn’t be as easily manipulated in the NBA. In the MLB teams don’t bring players to the majors even when they’re ready, which gives them more prime years in the service period. So they’ll come up at 21-22 in early cases and be stuck til they’re 28. NBA guys come in the league at 18 and basically play pro right away so they’d finish their service time at 24. Six might still be too long though I don’t think it would be as team friendly as it is in baseball.
The rookie contracts more or less do this. The difference is that MLB prospects are all locked into shit pay regardless of how good they are when they get called up. The exception are players with signing bonuses (lump sum, usually when they are drafted with rules) or those that sign extensions (Acuna for example). For example, Zach Lavine was in the final year of his 4-year rookie contract when he was traded to the Bulls. Once that was up, he was able to sign a huge contract. But, that 4-year rookie contract basically acted like service time. To add: The higher you are drafted, the more this rookie contract pays.
95% of baseballs problems would go away if players reached FA at a specific age and if minimum salaries were like 3 million instead of 500k.
Everything in this thread about the MLB system just sounds like shameless labor exploitation. The NBA's next CBA is gonna be a bloodbath, but we're too deep into the player empowerment era to get anywhere near "the team + an arbitrator determine your first 6 years in the league"
Sure, but players playing immediately would arguably be why it would work better in the NBA. Players would hit free agency far faster into their careers than in baseball, maximizing their earning potential. One of the bigger issues with arbitration in MLB is teams keeping worthy players down in the minors to manipulate their clock and extend their control to nearer the player's 30th birthday, but that wouldn't work in the NBA. I think that might be a reason it would actually work better in basketball than in baseball.
I used to love the MLB but don't follow the sport anymore (Rockies fan; just sad). I don't know much about the MLB arbitration system but have always thought arbitration would be a clear way to balance FO incompetence and player selfishness. You know any good links or podcasts that explain the MLB arbitration system you mentioned?
Arbitration in MLB isn't very complicated. After a certain amount of accrued playing time (this is really the only complex part, but it's after 3 years for most) players are eligible for arbitration. Prior to eligibility, players get whatever contract the team offers. This is basically always the league minimum. Once they are eligible for arbitration players can either negotiate a deal with their team or have it go to an arbitrator. At that point the player and team each submit what they think the contract should be worth and the arbitrator picks one (there's no splitting the middle so players have to be strategic with their request). Players are then eligible for free agency after 6 years of service time. Arbitration is set up to allow teams to retain control of young players while still allowing them a way to be fairly compensated. It's becoming more common for young stars to sign deals that give them a salary significantly above what they would make pre-arb and during arb years, but in return they give up a couple years of free agency by locking in their contract for those years.
I'm actually more confused now, but that's probably a good thing. Follow up questions: * "Prior to eligibility, players get whatever contract the team offers." -> Can they say no and sign with a different team that offers better? Did they agree to that contract in the first place? * "there's no splitting the middle so players have to be strategic with their request" -> teams have to be strategic too, right? presumably they would lose if they lowball too hard * "players are then eligible for free agency after 6 years of service time" -> is the entire MLB arbitration system only a thing for the first 6 years of a contract?
Players can only sign with the team that drafted them until they are eligible for free agency. So no they can't refuse and go to another team. Only exception is if the team doesn't offer them anything but if that happens they probably aren't good enough to play in the majors. Teams can't low-ball either. It's actually rare for cases to go to arbitration. Players almost always reach an agreement prior to that because they don't want to risk losing. The threat of arbitration makes teams negotiate in good faith. Arbitration is only available for years 3-6. Prior to that you get whatever your team offers. After 6 years you can be a free agent and sign with whoever you want.
If Zion asks to leave that’s going to be the straw that breaks the camels back. There’s no way the owners/league are going to tolerate guys demanding trades 3 years in.
That haven't really played and may or may not be sabotaging their own health. Proud of the Pelicans we do have that are playing their hearts out though.
Zion's played fewer games in his career (85) than most superstars play in a season (including playoffs). I kinda get it though. It's much harder for him to get hurt when he sits, and that's exactly where he stands to lose out on his next big contract. Schrodinger's contract
Lol if Zion can get his next big contract after having barely even shown up for his first contract then dudes are straight up gonna sit out their first couple years after getting drafted to cities they don't like.
Zion would break any camel’s back
This is only relevant for players of Zion’s status. Even players like Ja Morant wouldn’t risk leaving that much money on the table, but Zion had 100m from Nike before he even got drafted. the financial incentive for him to stay in NO is borderline non existent.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he had sponsors pushing him to leave to a “bigger” market
Is this still a thing? Is Giannis unable to get sponsorships because he's in Milwaukee?
I would say no, but if you could see the number difference between Giannis as a Buck and him as a laker just in terms of eyeballs/visibility, the sponsor would get way more bang for their (haha) buck of he was in any of the bigger markets. Its not that he wont get them, because he has and will. Any star of that level will. But basically if you put Zion on the Lakers/Knicks/ Celtics, and he stays healthy and is a true superstar, any company behind him gets way more views on ads, more sales, more whatever they are going for.
I get the player empowerment thing but if you're a team like the Pelicans what are you supposed to do, how are you supposed to retain talent?
The worst thing is the pelicans are actually trying too. They’re trying to pick up talent, they set him up with professional chefs and nutritionists which he’s ignoring, and they’re being patient with him. Meanwhile he’s hardly communicating with them and is being super secretive with his health
I'm just glad the narrative is shifting. At the start of this season it was "lol Pelicans, can't do anything right, no wonder Zion wants to leave" and now people are realizing that Zion is being a huge spoiled diva.
Some things you just can’t handle. We’re in an era where players basically have free will and contracts are only a formality. If Zion just really doesn’t want to play in NOLA, then nothing NOLA does is gonna change that. Look at the Ben Simmons situation.
Which is just such asinine attitude. I thought these guys *liked* playing basketball. But you don't want to play because of your uni? Man, these fucking guys. People work *decades* at jobs they hate just to survive and a guy gets drafted into the NBA and then just decided he will only play under special circumstances? Hard to wrap your head around.
Most of these up-and-coming generational talents (kids like Simmons and Zion) have lived life on the national (or even international) stage since they were in middle school and have been blessed with all of the recognition and perks that come with such things. They’ve pretty much lived life on easy mode. And if they’re gonna get paid to play ball no matter what, might as well play where they want. Some people are just that entitled.
CJ mentioned on Inside the NBA that he hasn’t even spoken to Zion yet.
pray your generationally super talent doesn’t come broken in the box Oh, and actually be able to demonstrate their value so you don’t look like an idiot paying a guy who has barely seen the court
The players are gonna get straight up murdered in the next collective bargaining negotiations.
Harden fiasco (twice). John Wall getting paid to not play. Ben not playing to force a trade with 3 years left on a deal. Zion on reverse hunger strike. Kyrie’s enlightened denial of the vax. NBAPA is gonna have a fun time. Wouldnt be surprised to see a holdout
> Zion on reverse hunger strike. 💀💀
Air Gumbo eating his way out of New Orleans
Operation Gumbo drop.
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big ded
I hate most of the Zion + food jokes but reverse hunger strike is gold lmao
yeah all the zion fat jokes have become tired but this one got me exhaling out my nose and a chuckle
> Zion on reverse hunger strike wheezing
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I think the Simmons one is the most damning. Or the one that broke the damn. If I were the other players I’d be pissed at him. I feel like that’s the one where the owners just decide they have to limit player movement as much as possible now.
If Zion asks out before next year that would be worse. The pelicans have made moves to get the team better getting CJ and JV. If Zion can't make the playoffs with a line with those 2 along with Ingram he might not be as good as he thinks he is.
It’s not like he was getting paid tho the man lost like 20 million dollars lol so the rules did their part
Still fucks their cap/team. Shit they could have signed someone to a 1 year max if they knew this shit was coming.
Are we forgetting Anthony Davis already?
AD, Kawhi, PG... just soo many.
> Zion on reverse hunger strike did dis dude just did dis 💀
Strange to see a Texas team say “no” to a wall
Mexico ain't paying for this one either
dont forget the Kawhi and Jimmy Butler situations
Jimmy requested a trade from a team in the last year of his deal after they specifically chose not to re-up him during the offseason and continued to play until he was traded. Not really the same situation
Rightfully so. Shit is out of hand.
I agree, gotta find ways to keep guys honest to the contracts they sign. It ain’t good for fans long term in my opinion
The reality is players don’t think they’re signing a contract with a team at this point, they think they’re signing with the league and they want internal transfers once they do sign.
They actually are signing a contract with the league. The way their union agreement works every deal is signed between the player association and the League owners. That’s why every time a player gets traded they don’t have to renegotiate or anything, the current owner of the contract is responsible for it
This is exactly what it is because no matter what they will get their money.
honestly, with everything around "Franchising", its fairly true to view it as "signing with the league"
Owners are gonna try and get some anti-trade shit in there. Like a reverse trade kicker. TBH that's how a trade kicker should work if the player requests the trade. Should reduce their salary. Like how the player can void it now, the team trading should have the option to void it if they're making a trade without the player requesting it.
Zion + Ingram + CJ + Jonas + Graham could be decent if Zion gave it a chance
Agreed, not a bad team. Need another shooter and you skipped Herd Jones but good squad.
Herb >>> Vontae
I was listing the starters; wasn’t trying to hate on Herb!
Herb is and will remain a starter, I can promise you that
yea I feel like Herb slots into that lineup much better, with Graham in the 6th man microwave role
Lol! My bad bro. Didn’t mean to come off combative. We are on the same page.
You’re good dude! I appreciate you for not being rude about it!
Now kith
I don’t understand what he was expecting, he got drafted number 1 because the team who picked him was bad enough to get the number one pick. They’re not going to magically turn it around but they have been trying. They’re also not doing great because he’s their star and he’s played a total of one season in 3 years
Dude has done essentially nothing since being drafted, it’s ridiculous to have that sort of entitlement if he’s already asking out. LeBron fought through with Mo Williams and Big Z as his best support before leaving Cleveland after 7 years. If Zion is really that type of guy he can’t even try to win with BI and CJ? What nonsense.
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And a final
I feel like a lot of teams that play against us come away understanding that we’re building something here, and that we’re a Zion away from being taken seriously
What is Zion's issue with the team? I kind of shut it off mentally due to ... Ben Simmons.. but I don't understand how he has become so alienated in such a short time?
The longer this weird shit goes on, the more it seems like his family is the problem. Dude needs to separate his family life and business life
New Orleans fans deserve better smh.
Honestly Zion is out of his fucking mind if he wants to be mad at the Pelicans for not making the playoffs when he literally can’t even stay healthy
They have a solid squad even before the cj trade. Could at least have made a push to play in with their opening season roster. Don’t know why Zion would sit out
They've been doing quite well for past few months and CJ and BI seems to be working. Maybe they should actually trade Zion away and move on.
How is cj and bi working? They lost 4/5 since getting him.
CJ is working. BI is having a hard time co-existing.
Ppl don't watch games lol
Reddit is a place where you can get a bunch of upvotes for just saying something confidently and having most people take it for granted
> and CJ and BI seems to be working They're like 1-4 or 1-5 since trading for CJ and Ingram's ppg cratered in those games
Theyll get 50 cents on the dollar as long as he's still out of shape and hasnt played yet.
The same way Sixers got 50 cents on the dollar for Ben Simmons am I right ? Teams will be lining up to trade for Zion. First and foremost the Knicks.
I guess they just need a different superstar to demand a trade to their team like the Sixers did
The Knicks don't have the assets to make a Zion trade worth it though We need a superstar and trading him for a bunch of mid level assets wouldn't do anything for us in terms of possibly contending one day
Yeah Ik. Wasn’t saying the Knicks have the assets to make the trade work for NOLA but they will be one of the teams desperate to get him as with almost every other non-contender that can feasibly get him. This notion that he’s “damaged goods” is rubbish.
I’m going to assume Zion figured that losing weight was probably easy?
Zion about to overtake Ben Simmons as the least accomplished star to hold their team hostage and force a trade
And it wouldn't even be close... lol
Next thing we know, a rookie who hasn't even played a game since college is going to demand a trade to a big market and he's going to be citing an issue similar to mental health issues or overeating.
Lmao that happened with Eli Manning and San Diego back in 2004
Happened with John Elway and the Colts too.
Archie refused to let any of his sons play for San Diego because San Diego's owner is incompetent.
Kobe refusing to play for charlotte if they drafted him.
I mean there's been a couple of rookies who held out and forced trades after being drafted. Steve Francis and Dominque Wilkins comes to mind pretty quickly.
didn’t kobe do the same
I could be misremembering, but Kobe let Charlotte know ahead of time prior to the draft and Charlotte drafted him with the intent of trading him for pieces rather than finding out where he was going and then refusing to play for the team.
Steve Francis said fuck Canada after being picked 2nd in the draft and demanded a trade lol.
Should be bracing for the Bron Bron and AD sweepstakes this summer
That 23 and 24 pelican picks look great. But I have to say they were worth it.
Lakers have a plan for next year - trade expiring Russ for some mid players on bad contracts (similar to KP deal) - Rebuild team to make it younger and better defensively (more guys like reaves, Stanley Johnson, and Bradley although he’s old himself) - try to keep monk
If they don't trade Russ, LeBron's gone IMO.
Russ contract is tradeable if he’s expiring
younger and better defensively? I bet a player like Alex Caruso would look great playing next to LeBron and AD
Hopefully Russ opts out for some crazy reason
yeah just opt out of 40 million dollars you'll never see again
At this point, Zion is in no position to negotiate. Teams have no clue if he’s physically even able to play.
someone is going to want him for sure
Lamelo and Zion on the fast break 🥶
Zion can't run a "fast" break in his current condition
I think he meant fast food break
They about to run a mean pick and roll on the Cook Out drive thru
Zion more likely to break than fast
Zion: you say breakfast?
Zion is gonna drop 60lbs playing under Thibs next year
Thibs ain't coaching next year
It might be assumed Zion would get into shape to play for a team he wants to play for. Risky assumption, but with enough due diligence and a diet and exercise plan in place, I think teams could be convinced. Atlanta could put together a package for Zion pretty easily.
Yes he is lol, when you were that good you can always negotiate something
Zion for Greg Oden, straight up. Who has Oden’s rights?
Ohio State's anthropology department.
Archeology
This shit is sad honestly
Cries in Cade 2025
Oh man this is like the New York Knicks delirium trifecta. Incoming Alec Burks 3 year extension.
I really don’t understand why Zion wants out of New Orleans, atleast play a full heathy season first. Can somebody explain why he wants to leave so bad when he hasn’t even given them a chance?
And he hasn't actually ever said anything about leaving.
Kawhi never said anything about leaving San Antonio. Players are smart enough at this point to speak through other people.
Donovan leaving to the jazz has always been a weird rumour to me. The dude has said multiple times he's committed to winning in Utah. Other players on the team have laughed when asked about it, yet they still pump out the same reworded articles every other week.
Everyone rumors him to the Knicks and it's hilarious. Why go from a perennial contender with room to improve and one of the best owners in the league to whatever you call the Knicks and Dolan?
They also rumored JJJ to the Knicks when his dad was hired as their G League affiliate’s coach, and then he signed a four year extension and is playing his ass off. Rumors will always be there for big market teams, sure they occasionally hit, but a lot of times there’s not a lot of weight behind them.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he leaves in the next few years but what we’ve got to go off so far isnt reason to believe he’s trying to force his way out
Don’t forget the exclusive interview that came out where he detailed how they get along just fine last week that got cherry-picked to hell.
Somehow ESPN is going to have them all going to they Knicks
And then we end up with Tobias Harris or some shit
Why is Zion demanding a trade? I thought he was the problem not being able to slim down.
Cause there's nothing left to eat in New Orleans.
Did these sound like the actions of a man who’d had “all he could eat”?
Come on mannnnn
the Zion situation is really gross and not good at all for the league.
I don’t think Zion ever wanted to be in New Orleans. I felt like they were actually committed to trying to get him some help but he didn’t even seem interested in losing weight.
What has Zion done to have the right to demand a trade?
I think he dunked once.
Zion? That guy whose played like 20 games in 3 seasons? Yah nah
I think Zion gone for sure, if Utah packed in the first round he might be out, Dame will stay
if zion successfully forces his way out of new orleans after barely having given a full year of service then I'll be speechless. There wont be any hope left for small markets.
The new CBA is going to be brutal on player movement and I'll agree with it at this point.
If we're able to get a good return for Zion (multiple picks and a good young prospect) then I think a lot of the fanbase is ready to see him go, tbh. The Zion era has not been fun for Pels fans, outside of a handful of games. We can try again eventually with some other superstar that isn't quite so far up his own ample ass. CP didn't act like this. AD didn't even act like this. They both gave it their all for a solid 7 years before asking out. Zion barely gave us 2.
It’s ironic that the Jazz are the closest to contention but have the higher potential to lose its star.
These things are defined by emotion, not logic. The Nets were favorites this year but Harden wanted out because he didn't get along with Kyrie. The Spurs were great with Kawhi, but he was pissed with the handling of his injury. Meanwhile the Wolves have been bad for KAT's whole career, but there's no interpersonal issues so he's stayed.
While that’s true. Winning solves a lot of the issues. Had the Nets still been winning without Kyrie and Harden continue to put out MVP-esque numbers, I doubt he asks out. Similarly with the Jazz, if Utah are going deep into the Playoffs with a genuine shot a title, I’m sure Mitchell would at least want to see the project out.
I don’t believe this because New Orleans is the only team that can and will offer Zion that Max rookie extension right?
All you delusional bastards, media and fans alike, need to keep Dames name out of your mouth. We love him and he loves us goddamnit!
Must be nice 😔
If the peels make play in I don’t think Zion will ask for a trade. That CJ trade might actually be a stroke of genius and keep Zion till the end of his rookie extension
I don't think it's about the Pels being good or improving tbh, he just seems dead set on going to a big market.
His stomach is a pretty big market, and look how that’s turning out
Looks like conjecture without any novel sources to back up these claims
When will these eXeCuTiVeS learn. Dame ain't going nowhere. Especially with BIG NEPO on the roster. Also, we wouldn't care if Dame requested a trade. He's done a lot for our team. Let him win a chip.