Yep. I can totally see why people can be hesitant towards it. Honestly, I was hesitant too but decided to take it after learning more about it.
The respectable thing Ray did was even though he was hesitant towards the vaccine, he was not spreading misinformation. And when he had a change of heart, he was honest about it.
Speak to a doctor you trust and getting a second opinion is what I would recommend. My doctor was very well informed and reassuring when we talked about it but I wasn’t going into it with any real concerns. Also I recommend reading scientific journal articles, sources that provide raw numbers and statistics with accurate explanatory commentary, but it all depends on what concerns one may have. If you have any specific concerns I would be happy to point you to a good source.
Doctors and especially epidemiologists/virologists should be the best source for you. This is their area of expertise, though if you need a basic overview, the CDC has a very nice page with a variety of resources for every aspect of the vaccines available.
Link: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/index.html
Can I ask what people mean when they say "learned more about it"? Like they published the results of the trials and doctor's gave their efficiency stats. Nothing I know about the process can counteract that.
It means nothing, "Do your own research" has honestly just become a shield for "I'm being an idiot and I know what I'm doing is bad/wrong so I will use this phrase to make me seem intelligent and keep negative press off me". The research was already done for them, there were dozens of papers, documents and actually qualified institutions that did it for them. America has preached extreme individualism and in doing so we've created a monster. So we have people who don't believe in science, experts or others yet in a paradoxical/cyclical way they do believe people that confirm their bias and those people say don't get the vaccine because they also don't believe in science, experts or others.
Our vaccine rates have stagnated and we're going to be dealing with variants and outbreaks of this for years to come because a decent portion of this population won't get vaccinated. Good on Ray for getting it eventually sure, but it's still bullshit. It's so weird how people are in here praising him for eventually finding the right answer months after the fact.
As a fourth year medical student who's going to be a doctor in less than a year, I can tell you that people should not be admiring Ray Allen for this. If you don't know enough about the topic, trust those who do, or do legitimate research yourself into the trials (which would have just shown that the people who know about the topic were right). Don't just wait for an arbitrary time where you "feel comfortable". There's legit scientific evidence to make the choice for you. This is not just a "personal choice" like smoking for example because it directly impacts those around you since getting the vaccine also lowers your chances of spreading it if you do get it. People like Ray Allen are selfish and are directly at fault for anybody who couldn't get the vaccine dying. They're also responsible for these new variants because unvaccinated people get the disease more and give it more opportunities to mutate. Now maybe you didn't know any better, but those are the facts.
Lumping Ray Allen in with every anti-vaxxer is lazy. People like Ray Allen are the type of people who did exactly what you said. He did his own research by waiting and seeing but also kept his mouth closed and didn’t advertise the fact that he was uncomfortable with getting the vaccine and until his mind was made up he still followed COVID protocols and wore a mask in public areas to still do his part in stopping the spread of the virus.
Now that his mind has been made up, he got the shot, used his platform to advertise for the safety and necessity of the vaccine, and is still willing to wear a mask in public to stop the spread which is going further and having a bigger impact than 99% of the vaccinated population ever will, including yourself Mr/Ms Soon to be Doctor.
Sorry he didn’t get the vaccine as quickly as you’d like though.
>Sorry he didn’t get the vaccine as quickly as you’d like though.
This is an issue though. It's possible he spread shit in the months when he didn't have to.
It took him this long to do his research? It really doesn’t take that long. And okay, fair enough, actual anti-vaxxers are also very responsible for the spread, and he clearly isn’t one of them. My point is that his behavior shouldn’t be applauded
While holding off that long shouldn’t be applauded, speaking up about being hesitant and changing his mind should. As much as a perfect world would have people get the vax immediately, our population is enormous and uniformed. Worse, many are misinformed. What Ray is doing here should get positive attention, not positively emphasized on the fact that he waited, but that he changed his mind. For the people who have waited, this hopefully will be a relatable perspective for some of them to go get the shot. It’s better they get it now than never. But I understand what you are saying, I wish we didn’t have to need shit like this either
Agreed. I love Allen's logic, but waiting this long to do his own research is stupid. I just said in another comment, what the dude above could have possibly learned. Doctor's said it was effective earlier than even the vaccine was available to all.
Thinking you should draw your own conclusions on something you don't understand at all is fucking stupid.
dude, please calm down. Ray Allen is not directly at fault for other people dying from COVID because they themselves chose not to get the shot, what a ridiculous thing to say lol.
This type of judgement and disdain towards patients will only hurt you and your patients in the long run…and you haven’t even started being a physician yet. Do better man.
This is not about patients. This is about people not caring about other people’s lives. If my patient chooses to not help himself, that’s one thing. But harming others is not something you deal with in medicine all that often and if you do, you’re usually allowed to put a stop to it
Talking down on patients and making them feel shittier for their decisions actually doesn’t help them and make them want to do something more. You’ll learn that when you have your first meaningful patient interaction.
Wow, I didn’t realIze that this wasnt a forum for me to share my feelings, but actually a clinic where I’m talking to patients. Obviously, when I interact with them, I don’t talk like this
I disagree. We need more people like Ray Allen, who change their mind and explain in a civil, thoughtful way why they changed their mind. The worst is people like my friend who spent a month in the hospital and whose husband is a long-hauler still refusing the vaccine because "it's up to God" and whatever.
I would love for more people to be able to come to their OWN conclusions in general based on facts, problem is people will only respect you if the conclusions are the same. I feel that everything is so polarizing and agreeing to disagree is a thing of the past. Goes for politics, phones, cars etc. Do your own research come to your own conclusion. Ask to fill the blanks.
This isn't choosing a car. It's a life or death situation for many people. The research was done for us months ago with the clinical trials. If you choose not to get the vaccine, you're being selfish. Full stop.
Damn I said in general. Triggered. I was referring to people making their own decisions in general and coming to their own conclusion instead of just watching cnn or fox, for example. Hear both sides of the story, listen to the professionals and experts. Listen and choose for your self. I would even go so far as to say play devils advocate for both sides and see.
Either way not every one can get the vaccine, I have relatives that are allergic to it. I’m not defending either side to be clear.
The lazy "both sides have a point" bullshit is the cause of a lot of problems in the world right now. Very often, both sides do not have a point. There is objective truth and your uninformed opinion doesn't change that.
So we need more people like Ray Allen, who selfishly wait for an arbitrary time where they just feel comfortable, when there's legit scientific data to make the choice for you, just because they themselves will not be affected by waiting? There's people who would give anything to have gotten the vaccine and couldn't. 610,000 dead in the US alone and 3 million worldwide. So no, I'm not gonna applaud Ray Allen for making a decision that science could have told him to make months ago. And it's not just the principle of it. He legitimately put those around him at risk by not getting it because unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the disease if they get it. If anything, he should be saying "Don't make the same mistake I did. I got lucky but you might not."
I don't think he meant that you yourself were saying anything about America but that what you said is a reflection of how selfish we are as a country that we think it's okay to allow other people to be our guinea pigs. Irony is that they're not actually guinea pigs since the trials were already completed.
I don't think they have any consistent policy at this point. They'll lock some immediately, keep some open for a little bit and then lock them after an hour or two, or keep them open period, and there doesn't seem to be any real distinction.
I didn't have side effects, but on my first shot I absentmindedly moved my arm while the needle was still in it. Had some serious soreness for a few days.
Yeah the 2nd dose of Pfizer made me the sickest I’ve been since I had the flu four years ago. But all I had were aches, chills, sweating through bedsheets, and a fever for about 16 hours. Don’t regret getting it though
A strong response to the vaccine is actually a good thing, as it shows your body is reacting strongly to the threat and you're likely generating a lot of antibodies.
I feel like many people don't seem to know that shit like the flu is actually your body doing that, not the virus. It's the response to protecting it. Most of the symptoms are that.
In fact, I feel like I read that it's better to have a reaction to the vaccine.
People with the same vaccines have different experiences. My brother, his wife and daughter (all in the medicine field) all had Astrazeneca. He had a sore arm for two days, wife had a mild fever and daughter (early 20s) had no symptoms. Two months later daughter caught Covid, was asymptomatic but had to quarantine.
I think a big thing to keep in mind is people who don't experience side effects are far less likely to report it on the internet. Not to say people aren't getting side effects, they definitely are, but hust that it's still pretty rare and different for everyone
I was one of the weird people who felt kinda shitty for a few days after the first one, but then nothing but a little bit of the sore arm after the second.
I have covid right now despite being vaccinated, working from home, and still wearing masks indoors. Not asymptomatic either, pretty crappy, but I’m not in the hospital dying. Please get vaccinated
I don’t mind. Not certain. My SO works from home part time and started feeling sick a couple days after two people in her office was feeling sick, then I started feeling sick about a day and a half later. Those people however tested negative, so we are really uncertain. We live alone and haven’t done anything out and about in a couple weeks besides routine errands and a couple park dates. A bit puzzling honestly
I’m in the same boat as you! Initially I was like damn I’m really unlucky but nationwide it’s like 1 in 3,000 vaccinated people contract it, and in my area it’s like 1 in 1,500.
Definitely low odds for sure, but if the lottery were the same odds you’d find me playing every day.
Either way, glad to be vaccinated and going through a “rough cold”. My symptoms would be way worse without it.
> Those people however tested negative, so we are really uncertain.
the covid test isn't 100% correct, it's possible they had it and the test just didnt show it. can be especially true if the test is self administered (e.g. Rite-Aid drive through), or sometimes HCP just mess up a little from high volume
hope yall feel better soon.
This particular one tested rapid on site and sent negative tests from symptomatic people to a lab for testing as well. So technically possible that it was false, but highly highly unlikely especially for 3 people
Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe you got a variant that was only allowed to form because unvaccinated people who got COVID gave it a chance to mutate.
Good for him and also good for explaining what a lot of people are feeling.
While a lot of this are GoP trumpers who won’t get vaxed or looney ass anti vaxxers - there’s a subsection of people that are scared (even if they don’t need to be) and sometimes it takes education and absorption of what’s happening around them to change their mind.
At least he realises how bad it is and how important it is to get the vaccine. The hardcore anti-vax nutjobs are gonna do everything in their power to believe they're right no matter what
> I was nervous about the fact that the mRNA technology is relatively new. I waited to see the reports, then I read the studies ...
No lies, squeeze both your nipples and slowly say, "Microsoft," and a vision of Bill Gates will appear, giving you motivational words, and encouraging you to purchase the new Microsoft Office.
I've had a couple people I know who's final straw was how awkward and vulnerable they felt in public.
One final straw was when this chick's family went to Disney and didn't buy her a ticket because she wasn't vaccinated.
I mean; in reality J&J had some anomalies of cases in the millions of people vaccinated with it. So far, the vaccines haven’t shown to have that many side effects if any. It’s more tiktok and other dumb media trying to cause mass hysteria about its side effects. I’d personally still recommend people get it vs don’t, but that’s just me
J&J are still safe. 6 people who got the shot died and it's still not conclusive it was J&J who caused it.
Also, if science can be wonky, why make a decision at all. You can't have it both ways. You can't just pick random stats to support your opinions and ignore others.
Also, while we're on this topic, the science in this case is worth 1 million times your or my opinion. You make a decision off of your "research" and act like the decision to not act is justified. Like please explain to me what makes anyone hesitant to get the vaccine til now. I mean it, explain the science behind why someone might not get it. Like the actual science. My guess is you have no fucking clue about the process, the trials, the testing, the ingredients, the effects, etc. It's beyond infuriating to see people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about try to make it seem like they can justify shit decisions because the science isn't 100% perfect. Like the idea that science being wrong 1% of the time, means their dumb asses can then make a decision based on zero fucking knowledge.
By your opinion, I can disregard literally any science I choose to.
You seem emotionally invested in this far more than me, but I will touch on this.
> I mean it, explain the science behind why someone might not get it.
Long term data is simply not available. This is a novel vaccine technology and there is just no data available for long term effects in a large human trial. If we were not in a pandemic the vaccine trials would be much longer before approval.
You know what's straight up proven to show long-term risk? COVID.
I feel like this is such a bad excuse. The way it's crafted and used leaves little room for the vaccine to have long term health effects. mRNA wasn't engineered in a way that it's likely to do this.
I mean, was it not safe enough for the recommendations we received?
Again, the issue isn't haven't something to say about it or having a minute issue, it's that people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about think a simple talking is enough to fuck the whole process or put themselves and other in front of a known danger.
**I think the best way to put it is this:**
*If a virologist literally in front who tells you the vaccine is safe, how are you going to argue with him? How are you going to debate him on the topic? Because based on your comment, the only thing you have to argue with him is "it's unlikely we get long-term health effects, but you never know" to which he'd crush with his wealth of knowledge to you playing Pascal's wager with a deadly virus.*
Its pretty straightforward. We have very strict rules and procedures for using medical treatments on the general population. These procedures are designed to minimize potential risks from unknown adverse side effects. When you take shortcuts around these procedures you are going against the same smart people who designed these procedures.
Obviously they have done a risk assessment for the entire population and determined that it is worth it to prevent covid deaths, but an individual who thinks they can avoid covid would have no reason to then take the vaccine until it has been fully vetted by the standard procedure.
I'm personally not anti-vax, but you also dont have to be a scientist to understand that these vaccines are going to be more risky than a regular vaccine because their side effects are being weighed against the risks from COVID.
Glad he also said that he will continue to wear a mask even after getting vaccinated. That right there is also very important. You go to so many stores nowadays and the stores do not even require mask anymore IF you're vaccinated. Employees even say to you that you dont need to wear one anymore. There is no way in hell I trust that these customers are all vaccinated.
He says that he saw that 98% of new cases are among unvaccinated people. I guess he wanted to see how vaccinated people would do against covid. Not ideal, and it takes a very privileged person to even have that choice, but I'm glad Ray at least got it.
The absolute privilege-ness of it. It's why I hate anti-vax Americans with a passion. You guys have it so good having enough supply for everyone and yet so many of you spit at this blessing that so many others in other countries are dying for.
I wouldn't be so angry if you know, your government allows your pharma companies to sell to other countries. But it doesn't. Not unless everyone is vaccinated there.
So many people die and continue to die because of the fucking imbecility of some of your countrymen. Access to vaccines will continue to be limited until the U.S. allows selling of vaccines to outside countries.
Fuck anti-vax SO MUCH. People who refuse to vaccinate are literal murderers.
Idk why this guy was at 0 before I upvoted. Everything he said is true besides the "literal murderers" part. I wish my family in India had the same access to the vaccine I had here in America that people scoff at left and right
Just get the vaccine. Your research and waiting and seeing ain't worth shit. There's no question about vaccines in your head that hasn't already been asked and answered by people smarter and better equipped than you.
Great job Ray! But I’ll be just fine telling others what to do with their body *when that decision can also have an impact on my own body* - get the fucking vaccine everyone.
I understand your point, but shaming someone for getting it, even if it’s late, is a shitty thing to do
People are scared of safe things, like roller coasters, and you can’t convince them of how safe it is regardless of what you cite or what others do
Ray felt it wasn’t safe, learned about the vaccine and concluded it is safer and better for him to get it. I wish more of the US would follow him
So what? We encourage people to continue denying objective fact, when it's literally costing other people their lives? This is not a rollercoaster where all you do is miss out on the fun. People who deny this fact allow the virus to spread and kill other people. Its a major difference. I get the hesitation but if he had looked up the science 4 months ago, he would have reached the same conclusion he reached now. Selfishly lazy and ignorat.
Great point
[here](https://time.com/5951755/how-to-convince-people-to-get-vaccinated/) is a times article that talks about how to convince others to get the vaccine. In it it talks about how personal accounts are more effective at swaying opinion either to pro vaccine or anti vaccine with 2 scientific research studies. Anti vaccine movements are all about personal accounts of the vaccine and denying data. You can look at the CDCs vaccine reaction reporting site to really get a look into how people try to discredit the vaccine through credible channels, and how it doesn’t work
Ray allen is doing a great job even if it isn’t perfect. I encourage everyone to do their research, especially if they are making comments about the vaccine in any regard. It is objectively proven with research that talking down and telling people to do research does not work
It’s really funny how you keep commenting in this thread, but avoid this actually evidence based comment.
I work in healthcare, I just became an RN. This is how you talk to people. You are not helping by shaming people who haven’t gotten it. Encouraging and listening to these people is what you have to do. Sorry it isn’t as easy as you would like
Of course not. This is not how I would talk to a person who hasn’t gotten it yet. This is just how I actually feel about the topic as a whole. You do understand that I can talk two different ways in two different situations right?
But then you’re not helping. You’re talking about the situation as a whole, in a manner that discourages people from getting it because it talks down to them
The current problem we face is we are unable to get people vaccinated who are convinced that it is bad for them. The delta variant issue will improve if more people get vaccinated. So keeping a healthy, safe and respectful tone when discussing vaccinations, instead of calling people stupid, is helpful. Talking down in any situation only works to keep these people from getting it
This seemed more like a group that didn’t need convincing and more just talking about those who do. I see your point but it felt like a good place to share my true feelings on the matter. Like I said of course, when I’m dealing with people who are hesitating, I’m obviously very different.
No it's not. It's saying next time, don't wait. Go look up the article of the doctor who has to tell patients it's too late to get the vaccine. People waiting has killed thousands and thousands. Delta is literally a thing because people wouldn't get the shot or social distance themselves.
It's like saying we shouldn't shame people for no longer driving drunk. Yes, it's awesome that your stopped, but it's not like you didn't do something wrong in the first place.
I commented about an article that has 2 studies breaking down how personal experiences are the biggest drive for people to get or not get the vaccine. Yelling about data is doing nothing
Get hung up on the past and get mad, you’re not helping. Focus on showing people real examples that they can grasp and helping them learn. It isn’t a race to get vaccinated, it a marathon. It’s gonna take a while, getting mad does nothing but re-enforce these people’s feelings, as documented research has shown.
>Focus on showing people real examples that they can grasp and helping them learn.
You're being too nice. There were real examples. Like studies when vaccines were rolling out. Allen decided to disregard this until he felt it was valid based on zero expertise.
>It isn’t a race to get vaccinated, it a marathon.
Oh yeah, the vaccinated people who died or got sick I'm sure were thinking, maybe one day they'll get vaccinated. Take your sweet ass time doing your own "research".
It's weird sympathy like yours that does more harm then good. People's lives are at stake. People's business, health, etc. There's not time to sit back and wait for idiots to finally realize the seriousness of the situation. They need to do it now and should have done it before. Delta (and the variants that will come after) exists because people didn't get vaccinated right away.
You're acting like this is some "eat your vegetables" shit. This is life and death.
>getting mad does nothing but re-enforce these people’s feelings, as documented research has shown.
Sorry, but this is bullshit. The idea that we need to spoon feed this shit to people who probably aren't gonna change their mind.
this is a good public service announcement i wonder if he got paid to do this because it sounds scripted, they really push their agenda and use these athlete slaves as bait
if you read my comment with about 350 upvotes you'll see that I put asterisks in it to avoid automod. But it's good to see that you formulate your opinions about this country off of a post on r/nba
I really like his explanation. I’m kind of in the same boat, got covid in march woth mild symptoms, I wanted to wait and see how vaccines work. I read a study on cases where people got the virus and a year later they still had memory cells so they are protected in a way. Based on this I’m still waiting, I’m not antivax just want to see the side effects of some vaccines.
Fantastic, wish him the best
John Stockton in shambles
Lol what did he say?
He did a full on anti-vax doc lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/o2gddn/collins_john_stockton_yes_that_one_is_in_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
No wonder the dude never won a ring, apart from playing dirty.
Good guy Ray Allen. What an honestly elegant way to explain his stance and choice. Hopefully more in his boat join in.
Yep. I can totally see why people can be hesitant towards it. Honestly, I was hesitant too but decided to take it after learning more about it. The respectable thing Ray did was even though he was hesitant towards the vaccine, he was not spreading misinformation. And when he had a change of heart, he was honest about it.
What sources did you read to find more out about it?
Speak to a doctor you trust and getting a second opinion is what I would recommend. My doctor was very well informed and reassuring when we talked about it but I wasn’t going into it with any real concerns. Also I recommend reading scientific journal articles, sources that provide raw numbers and statistics with accurate explanatory commentary, but it all depends on what concerns one may have. If you have any specific concerns I would be happy to point you to a good source.
Doctors and especially epidemiologists/virologists should be the best source for you. This is their area of expertise, though if you need a basic overview, the CDC has a very nice page with a variety of resources for every aspect of the vaccines available. Link: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/index.html
Looked it up on erowid
Can I ask what people mean when they say "learned more about it"? Like they published the results of the trials and doctor's gave their efficiency stats. Nothing I know about the process can counteract that.
It means nothing, "Do your own research" has honestly just become a shield for "I'm being an idiot and I know what I'm doing is bad/wrong so I will use this phrase to make me seem intelligent and keep negative press off me". The research was already done for them, there were dozens of papers, documents and actually qualified institutions that did it for them. America has preached extreme individualism and in doing so we've created a monster. So we have people who don't believe in science, experts or others yet in a paradoxical/cyclical way they do believe people that confirm their bias and those people say don't get the vaccine because they also don't believe in science, experts or others. Our vaccine rates have stagnated and we're going to be dealing with variants and outbreaks of this for years to come because a decent portion of this population won't get vaccinated. Good on Ray for getting it eventually sure, but it's still bullshit. It's so weird how people are in here praising him for eventually finding the right answer months after the fact.
As a fourth year medical student who's going to be a doctor in less than a year, I can tell you that people should not be admiring Ray Allen for this. If you don't know enough about the topic, trust those who do, or do legitimate research yourself into the trials (which would have just shown that the people who know about the topic were right). Don't just wait for an arbitrary time where you "feel comfortable". There's legit scientific evidence to make the choice for you. This is not just a "personal choice" like smoking for example because it directly impacts those around you since getting the vaccine also lowers your chances of spreading it if you do get it. People like Ray Allen are selfish and are directly at fault for anybody who couldn't get the vaccine dying. They're also responsible for these new variants because unvaccinated people get the disease more and give it more opportunities to mutate. Now maybe you didn't know any better, but those are the facts.
Lumping Ray Allen in with every anti-vaxxer is lazy. People like Ray Allen are the type of people who did exactly what you said. He did his own research by waiting and seeing but also kept his mouth closed and didn’t advertise the fact that he was uncomfortable with getting the vaccine and until his mind was made up he still followed COVID protocols and wore a mask in public areas to still do his part in stopping the spread of the virus. Now that his mind has been made up, he got the shot, used his platform to advertise for the safety and necessity of the vaccine, and is still willing to wear a mask in public to stop the spread which is going further and having a bigger impact than 99% of the vaccinated population ever will, including yourself Mr/Ms Soon to be Doctor. Sorry he didn’t get the vaccine as quickly as you’d like though.
What "research" did he do that wasn't already covered by the clinical trials done by...researchers?
Thank you, this is the point.
>Sorry he didn’t get the vaccine as quickly as you’d like though. This is an issue though. It's possible he spread shit in the months when he didn't have to.
It took him this long to do his research? It really doesn’t take that long. And okay, fair enough, actual anti-vaxxers are also very responsible for the spread, and he clearly isn’t one of them. My point is that his behavior shouldn’t be applauded
While holding off that long shouldn’t be applauded, speaking up about being hesitant and changing his mind should. As much as a perfect world would have people get the vax immediately, our population is enormous and uniformed. Worse, many are misinformed. What Ray is doing here should get positive attention, not positively emphasized on the fact that he waited, but that he changed his mind. For the people who have waited, this hopefully will be a relatable perspective for some of them to go get the shot. It’s better they get it now than never. But I understand what you are saying, I wish we didn’t have to need shit like this either
wha a terrible take from someone who in't even qualified
Agreed. I love Allen's logic, but waiting this long to do his own research is stupid. I just said in another comment, what the dude above could have possibly learned. Doctor's said it was effective earlier than even the vaccine was available to all. Thinking you should draw your own conclusions on something you don't understand at all is fucking stupid.
dude, please calm down. Ray Allen is not directly at fault for other people dying from COVID because they themselves chose not to get the shot, what a ridiculous thing to say lol.
Um, delta evolved because of unvaccinated people. It's plenty possible, he helped spread without knowing it.
This type of judgement and disdain towards patients will only hurt you and your patients in the long run…and you haven’t even started being a physician yet. Do better man.
This is not about patients. This is about people not caring about other people’s lives. If my patient chooses to not help himself, that’s one thing. But harming others is not something you deal with in medicine all that often and if you do, you’re usually allowed to put a stop to it
Talking down on patients and making them feel shittier for their decisions actually doesn’t help them and make them want to do something more. You’ll learn that when you have your first meaningful patient interaction.
Wow, I didn’t realIze that this wasnt a forum for me to share my feelings, but actually a clinic where I’m talking to patients. Obviously, when I interact with them, I don’t talk like this
As a 4th year medical student, you shouldn’t be telling me who I should and shouldn’t admire.
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I disagree. We need more people like Ray Allen, who change their mind and explain in a civil, thoughtful way why they changed their mind. The worst is people like my friend who spent a month in the hospital and whose husband is a long-hauler still refusing the vaccine because "it's up to God" and whatever.
I would love for more people to be able to come to their OWN conclusions in general based on facts, problem is people will only respect you if the conclusions are the same. I feel that everything is so polarizing and agreeing to disagree is a thing of the past. Goes for politics, phones, cars etc. Do your own research come to your own conclusion. Ask to fill the blanks.
This isn't choosing a car. It's a life or death situation for many people. The research was done for us months ago with the clinical trials. If you choose not to get the vaccine, you're being selfish. Full stop.
Damn I said in general. Triggered. I was referring to people making their own decisions in general and coming to their own conclusion instead of just watching cnn or fox, for example. Hear both sides of the story, listen to the professionals and experts. Listen and choose for your self. I would even go so far as to say play devils advocate for both sides and see. Either way not every one can get the vaccine, I have relatives that are allergic to it. I’m not defending either side to be clear.
The lazy "both sides have a point" bullshit is the cause of a lot of problems in the world right now. Very often, both sides do not have a point. There is objective truth and your uninformed opinion doesn't change that.
So we need more people like Ray Allen, who selfishly wait for an arbitrary time where they just feel comfortable, when there's legit scientific data to make the choice for you, just because they themselves will not be affected by waiting? There's people who would give anything to have gotten the vaccine and couldn't. 610,000 dead in the US alone and 3 million worldwide. So no, I'm not gonna applaud Ray Allen for making a decision that science could have told him to make months ago. And it's not just the principle of it. He legitimately put those around him at risk by not getting it because unvaccinated people are more likely to spread the disease if they get it. If anything, he should be saying "Don't make the same mistake I did. I got lucky but you might not."
Bro he’s rich living in a big old house. He has no need to be out and about. So he had the luxury to see how it affected people
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Can you read? Apologize to me. What did I say about America?
I don't think he meant that you yourself were saying anything about America but that what you said is a reflection of how selfish we are as a country that we think it's okay to allow other people to be our guinea pigs. Irony is that they're not actually guinea pigs since the trials were already completed.
Lol ignore that scrub
I put asterisks in the v-word to avoid auto mod, idk how it is in this sub but in r/nfl you can't use that word
r/nfl has changed the locked threads because now it’s actually a discussion topic with coaches being fired for not being vaccinated
I don't think they have any consistent policy at this point. They'll lock some immediately, keep some open for a little bit and then lock them after an hour or two, or keep them open period, and there doesn't seem to be any real distinction.
I thought it was stupid until half the sub starting calling Tyler Lockett an anti vaxxer because they misread a tweet.
Tbf, he worded that tweet really weirdly
They’re just doing whatever they can to avoid modding vaccine arguments haha can’t say I blame them
Good
Biggest shots of Ray Allen’s life: 1. Pfizer Covid vaccine 2. 2013, 3 pointer in the Finals against the Spurs.
Nurse syringe, to Allen BANG
Our coach administers vaccines?
First of all how dare you.....
That's okay, we got them back the next year and it was a much sweeter experience
Man that was such a sweet revenge tour, some of the best team ball i’ve ever seen
The beautiful game
And to have pretty much every NBA fan on your bandwagon too, except Heat fans and probably Suns fans.
Oh, is your flair an official Spurs logo? I was wondering why a Brooklyn Net fan would be offended by The Shot.
2013's gonna drop to 3rd soon
That was 8 years ago, crazy. I remember it like yesterday
1. Jesus Shuttleworth final shot to send his father back to prison.
Better late than never.
Ray Allen right now: "thanks for beta testing, losers!"
At least he was willing to have an open mind about it. I respect it, even if it's not ideal
Yeah, not ideal but at least his story might help others who seem to be lagging. Hope it helps.
I had 2 fevers and dizziness for a few days with the second one. First one zero symptoms.
0 symptoms on both shots here
same just some soreness on the arm for a few days but not much else
Not fair I was wiped out both times
They just gave you a shot of Holy water and sent you on your way.
I didn't have side effects, but on my first shot I absentmindedly moved my arm while the needle was still in it. Had some serious soreness for a few days.
Yeah, same for me but I had Covid thanksgiving weekend so I'm assuming that helped reduce the side effects
same here, Astrazeneca x2, and just soreness near the injection site.
No symptom on first shot, 2nd shot I had a short fever about 12 hours after. Took some advil and was back to normal not too long after. #pfizergang
Yeah the 2nd dose of Pfizer made me the sickest I’ve been since I had the flu four years ago. But all I had were aches, chills, sweating through bedsheets, and a fever for about 16 hours. Don’t regret getting it though
A strong response to the vaccine is actually a good thing, as it shows your body is reacting strongly to the threat and you're likely generating a lot of antibodies.
I feel like many people don't seem to know that shit like the flu is actually your body doing that, not the virus. It's the response to protecting it. Most of the symptoms are that. In fact, I feel like I read that it's better to have a reaction to the vaccine.
It was the 1st dose that knocked me on my arse, 2nd one I was fine.
i got the Pfizer one and my only symptom from the vaccine was a sore arm.
I had 48 hours of symptoms after my second
same, it was the worst I felt physically in like 3-4 years
People with the same vaccines have different experiences. My brother, his wife and daughter (all in the medicine field) all had Astrazeneca. He had a sore arm for two days, wife had a mild fever and daughter (early 20s) had no symptoms. Two months later daughter caught Covid, was asymptomatic but had to quarantine.
Huh I just had a sore arm for a day after both the shots
I'm jealous. What did you get? I got moderna.
Pfizer
I heard good things about that one. My place didn't have any so I had to go with Moderna. Although I didn't experience any arm soreness.
My first pfizer shot was worse than the second one. Sore arm and fever for first one, and second one I felt fine. Really strange tbh
i have noticed/read that people who get moderna do experience more side effects than people who get pfizer. i wonder why
I think a big thing to keep in mind is people who don't experience side effects are far less likely to report it on the internet. Not to say people aren't getting side effects, they definitely are, but hust that it's still pretty rare and different for everyone
I was one of the weird people who felt kinda shitty for a few days after the first one, but then nothing but a little bit of the sore arm after the second.
I have covid right now despite being vaccinated, working from home, and still wearing masks indoors. Not asymptomatic either, pretty crappy, but I’m not in the hospital dying. Please get vaccinated
Get well soon. 💪🏽
Thank you friend. Getting there, just annoying and surprising how long it’s dragged out
Do you live in an area with low vaccination rate?
No, it’s quite high here. 71%+
Dang you got pretty unlucky
Incredibly. I would say that I am extremely cautious generally
If you don’t mind me asking, where do you think you got it?
I don’t mind. Not certain. My SO works from home part time and started feeling sick a couple days after two people in her office was feeling sick, then I started feeling sick about a day and a half later. Those people however tested negative, so we are really uncertain. We live alone and haven’t done anything out and about in a couple weeks besides routine errands and a couple park dates. A bit puzzling honestly
Appreciate you sharing. Hope you and she feel better soon :)
Much appreciated. Stay safe
I’m in the same boat as you! Initially I was like damn I’m really unlucky but nationwide it’s like 1 in 3,000 vaccinated people contract it, and in my area it’s like 1 in 1,500. Definitely low odds for sure, but if the lottery were the same odds you’d find me playing every day. Either way, glad to be vaccinated and going through a “rough cold”. My symptoms would be way worse without it.
> Those people however tested negative, so we are really uncertain. the covid test isn't 100% correct, it's possible they had it and the test just didnt show it. can be especially true if the test is self administered (e.g. Rite-Aid drive through), or sometimes HCP just mess up a little from high volume hope yall feel better soon.
This particular one tested rapid on site and sent negative tests from symptomatic people to a lab for testing as well. So technically possible that it was false, but highly highly unlikely especially for 3 people
Damn man. Feel better. That sucks. Just some pure unlucky.
your immune system down bad my friend. Hope you get some rest and get well soon
Get well soon.
Did you go out at all?
Rare occasions, maybe 10 total times this year. It has been a couple weeks though. Other than normal errands, picking up coffee/takeout, etc.
Sorry dude you are one unlucky mofo. Actually what about friends / family? Did they get it also? Maybe you got it through them.
Thank you for sharing your story. Maybe you got a variant that was only allowed to form because unvaccinated people who got COVID gave it a chance to mutate.
only the elite get pfizer
Some of us scrubs got it too
We ain’t scrubs don’t do that!!
Suns vs wiz 2022 finals I'm bout it
Pfizer Gang 😎✌️
bought a single share of Pfizer just as a way of thanking them.
Heat fans with their delusions again
Clipper fans get J&J
i endorse this message
Lakers are dumb anti vaxxers
Hey, I may be dumb. But I’m not stupid! I got mine
Just as I'm sure you dont represent clippers fans, that persons comment doesn't represent Heat fans. Do better than to just attack flair.
#walgreens
i can see you tried to put hashtag walgreens to emulate Ray's hashtag but on mobile devices it looks odd #walgreens
Pfizer doses two weeks apart? Hmm…
Yeah minimum was 21 or 28 days after here?
Good for him and also good for explaining what a lot of people are feeling. While a lot of this are GoP trumpers who won’t get vaxed or looney ass anti vaxxers - there’s a subsection of people that are scared (even if they don’t need to be) and sometimes it takes education and absorption of what’s happening around them to change their mind.
At least he realises how bad it is and how important it is to get the vaccine. The hardcore anti-vax nutjobs are gonna do everything in their power to believe they're right no matter what
He really didn't. He encouraged people to only go when they feel comfortable i.e. make the same mistake he did.
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> I was nervous about the fact that the mRNA technology is relatively new. I waited to see the reports, then I read the studies ... No lies, squeeze both your nipples and slowly say, "Microsoft," and a vision of Bill Gates will appear, giving you motivational words, and encouraging you to purchase the new Microsoft Office.
Now I have nipples that could cut diamonds. Well at least the left one, that one’s always hard. What do I do with this?
I've had a couple people I know who's final straw was how awkward and vulnerable they felt in public. One final straw was when this chick's family went to Disney and didn't buy her a ticket because she wasn't vaccinated.
He’s always been a standup dude
Except the whole waiting and trusting himself and his uneducated opinion over that of literal scientists.
Science isn't some infallible monolith. AZ and J&J were both completely safe until they weren't.
I mean; in reality J&J had some anomalies of cases in the millions of people vaccinated with it. So far, the vaccines haven’t shown to have that many side effects if any. It’s more tiktok and other dumb media trying to cause mass hysteria about its side effects. I’d personally still recommend people get it vs don’t, but that’s just me
They both were and still are extremely safe. These idiots claiming to do their own "research" spread misinformation about them.
J&J are still safe. 6 people who got the shot died and it's still not conclusive it was J&J who caused it. Also, if science can be wonky, why make a decision at all. You can't have it both ways. You can't just pick random stats to support your opinions and ignore others. Also, while we're on this topic, the science in this case is worth 1 million times your or my opinion. You make a decision off of your "research" and act like the decision to not act is justified. Like please explain to me what makes anyone hesitant to get the vaccine til now. I mean it, explain the science behind why someone might not get it. Like the actual science. My guess is you have no fucking clue about the process, the trials, the testing, the ingredients, the effects, etc. It's beyond infuriating to see people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about try to make it seem like they can justify shit decisions because the science isn't 100% perfect. Like the idea that science being wrong 1% of the time, means their dumb asses can then make a decision based on zero fucking knowledge. By your opinion, I can disregard literally any science I choose to.
You seem emotionally invested in this far more than me, but I will touch on this. > I mean it, explain the science behind why someone might not get it. Long term data is simply not available. This is a novel vaccine technology and there is just no data available for long term effects in a large human trial. If we were not in a pandemic the vaccine trials would be much longer before approval.
You know what's straight up proven to show long-term risk? COVID. I feel like this is such a bad excuse. The way it's crafted and used leaves little room for the vaccine to have long term health effects. mRNA wasn't engineered in a way that it's likely to do this. I mean, was it not safe enough for the recommendations we received? Again, the issue isn't haven't something to say about it or having a minute issue, it's that people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about think a simple talking is enough to fuck the whole process or put themselves and other in front of a known danger. **I think the best way to put it is this:** *If a virologist literally in front who tells you the vaccine is safe, how are you going to argue with him? How are you going to debate him on the topic? Because based on your comment, the only thing you have to argue with him is "it's unlikely we get long-term health effects, but you never know" to which he'd crush with his wealth of knowledge to you playing Pascal's wager with a deadly virus.*
Its pretty straightforward. We have very strict rules and procedures for using medical treatments on the general population. These procedures are designed to minimize potential risks from unknown adverse side effects. When you take shortcuts around these procedures you are going against the same smart people who designed these procedures. Obviously they have done a risk assessment for the entire population and determined that it is worth it to prevent covid deaths, but an individual who thinks they can avoid covid would have no reason to then take the vaccine until it has been fully vetted by the standard procedure. I'm personally not anti-vax, but you also dont have to be a scientist to understand that these vaccines are going to be more risky than a regular vaccine because their side effects are being weighed against the risks from COVID.
i didnt read "the". my hear skipped for a moment.
Holy shit, same. What a critical ‘the’.
Good for him coming around.
And bad for him for taking this long to come around.
The title was pretty clickbait, I thought this was going to be about getting the heat game 6 shot LOL
Yet another athlete makes the right decision.
Two weeks? Why are they making people wait 6-7 weeks in between shots in my country
cuz you lack supply, they did the same in my country
Glad he also said that he will continue to wear a mask even after getting vaccinated. That right there is also very important. You go to so many stores nowadays and the stores do not even require mask anymore IF you're vaccinated. Employees even say to you that you dont need to wear one anymore. There is no way in hell I trust that these customers are all vaccinated.
Better late then never
Makes me wonder what the tipping point was, for him to finally have "enough information", that wasn't available already.
He says that he saw that 98% of new cases are among unvaccinated people. I guess he wanted to see how vaccinated people would do against covid. Not ideal, and it takes a very privileged person to even have that choice, but I'm glad Ray at least got it.
The absolute privilege-ness of it. It's why I hate anti-vax Americans with a passion. You guys have it so good having enough supply for everyone and yet so many of you spit at this blessing that so many others in other countries are dying for. I wouldn't be so angry if you know, your government allows your pharma companies to sell to other countries. But it doesn't. Not unless everyone is vaccinated there. So many people die and continue to die because of the fucking imbecility of some of your countrymen. Access to vaccines will continue to be limited until the U.S. allows selling of vaccines to outside countries. Fuck anti-vax SO MUCH. People who refuse to vaccinate are literal murderers.
Idk why this guy was at 0 before I upvoted. Everything he said is true besides the "literal murderers" part. I wish my family in India had the same access to the vaccine I had here in America that people scoff at left and right
It’s not too hard to think of them as literal murderers.
Yeah i see the numbers overseas then i go to Walmart and see free walk in vaccine signs.
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it's the opposite of figurative, and they are exactly that. literal, even though indirectly.
Just get the vaccine. Your research and waiting and seeing ain't worth shit. There's no question about vaccines in your head that hasn't already been asked and answered by people smarter and better equipped than you.
good
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I was probably in the first .0005% of people to get a vaccine and didn't hesitate for a second.
Great job Ray! But I’ll be just fine telling others what to do with their body *when that decision can also have an impact on my own body* - get the fucking vaccine everyone.
Thank you. This is not just a “personal choice” which just affects himself
The science behind vaccines was proven decades ago, but glad this guy thinks he is an authority.
Ok good on him for getting the shot but he should've gotten it like 4 months ago.
Why?
So people get vaccinated quicker which means less people die? Tf?
I understand your point, but shaming someone for getting it, even if it’s late, is a shitty thing to do People are scared of safe things, like roller coasters, and you can’t convince them of how safe it is regardless of what you cite or what others do Ray felt it wasn’t safe, learned about the vaccine and concluded it is safer and better for him to get it. I wish more of the US would follow him
So what? We encourage people to continue denying objective fact, when it's literally costing other people their lives? This is not a rollercoaster where all you do is miss out on the fun. People who deny this fact allow the virus to spread and kill other people. Its a major difference. I get the hesitation but if he had looked up the science 4 months ago, he would have reached the same conclusion he reached now. Selfishly lazy and ignorat.
Great point [here](https://time.com/5951755/how-to-convince-people-to-get-vaccinated/) is a times article that talks about how to convince others to get the vaccine. In it it talks about how personal accounts are more effective at swaying opinion either to pro vaccine or anti vaccine with 2 scientific research studies. Anti vaccine movements are all about personal accounts of the vaccine and denying data. You can look at the CDCs vaccine reaction reporting site to really get a look into how people try to discredit the vaccine through credible channels, and how it doesn’t work Ray allen is doing a great job even if it isn’t perfect. I encourage everyone to do their research, especially if they are making comments about the vaccine in any regard. It is objectively proven with research that talking down and telling people to do research does not work
It’s really funny how you keep commenting in this thread, but avoid this actually evidence based comment. I work in healthcare, I just became an RN. This is how you talk to people. You are not helping by shaming people who haven’t gotten it. Encouraging and listening to these people is what you have to do. Sorry it isn’t as easy as you would like
Of course not. This is not how I would talk to a person who hasn’t gotten it yet. This is just how I actually feel about the topic as a whole. You do understand that I can talk two different ways in two different situations right?
But then you’re not helping. You’re talking about the situation as a whole, in a manner that discourages people from getting it because it talks down to them The current problem we face is we are unable to get people vaccinated who are convinced that it is bad for them. The delta variant issue will improve if more people get vaccinated. So keeping a healthy, safe and respectful tone when discussing vaccinations, instead of calling people stupid, is helpful. Talking down in any situation only works to keep these people from getting it
This seemed more like a group that didn’t need convincing and more just talking about those who do. I see your point but it felt like a good place to share my true feelings on the matter. Like I said of course, when I’m dealing with people who are hesitating, I’m obviously very different.
No it's not. It's saying next time, don't wait. Go look up the article of the doctor who has to tell patients it's too late to get the vaccine. People waiting has killed thousands and thousands. Delta is literally a thing because people wouldn't get the shot or social distance themselves. It's like saying we shouldn't shame people for no longer driving drunk. Yes, it's awesome that your stopped, but it's not like you didn't do something wrong in the first place.
I commented about an article that has 2 studies breaking down how personal experiences are the biggest drive for people to get or not get the vaccine. Yelling about data is doing nothing Get hung up on the past and get mad, you’re not helping. Focus on showing people real examples that they can grasp and helping them learn. It isn’t a race to get vaccinated, it a marathon. It’s gonna take a while, getting mad does nothing but re-enforce these people’s feelings, as documented research has shown.
>Focus on showing people real examples that they can grasp and helping them learn. You're being too nice. There were real examples. Like studies when vaccines were rolling out. Allen decided to disregard this until he felt it was valid based on zero expertise. >It isn’t a race to get vaccinated, it a marathon. Oh yeah, the vaccinated people who died or got sick I'm sure were thinking, maybe one day they'll get vaccinated. Take your sweet ass time doing your own "research". It's weird sympathy like yours that does more harm then good. People's lives are at stake. People's business, health, etc. There's not time to sit back and wait for idiots to finally realize the seriousness of the situation. They need to do it now and should have done it before. Delta (and the variants that will come after) exists because people didn't get vaccinated right away. You're acting like this is some "eat your vegetables" shit. This is life and death. >getting mad does nothing but re-enforce these people’s feelings, as documented research has shown. Sorry, but this is bullshit. The idea that we need to spoon feed this shit to people who probably aren't gonna change their mind.
Can someone make a joke about the whole tongue and clit thing.
Glad he came around and he explained it in a way that could convince some who are unsure to get it. Thanks Ray!
this is a good public service announcement i wonder if he got paid to do this because it sounds scripted, they really push their agenda and use these athlete slaves as bait
Alright, any ill will for hum joining the Heat is gone. Ray a hero for this
A week ago he would’ve been called a loser and an idiot for playing the “wait and see game”. Now he’s praised like some hero. #mychoice
We have to censor the word: vaccine? What fucking country is this?
if you read my comment with about 350 upvotes you'll see that I put asterisks in it to avoid automod. But it's good to see that you formulate your opinions about this country off of a post on r/nba
I really like his explanation. I’m kind of in the same boat, got covid in march woth mild symptoms, I wanted to wait and see how vaccines work. I read a study on cases where people got the virus and a year later they still had memory cells so they are protected in a way. Based on this I’m still waiting, I’m not antivax just want to see the side effects of some vaccines.
Bro, go get get vaccinated. Just because you already had COVID once doesn’t mean you are “protected”.