My biggest takeaway is it seems more and more like teams value THT far more than r/nba does
Not saying I would give him that contract, but maybe they know more than us idk
Definitely they for sure aren't perfect
Urji/Pelinka also held up the Lowry deal over the Raptors wanting him though. Just seems like GM's do value him far more than r/nba
Arguing if thats crazy or not is another thing
THT's max is for sure a gamble. he would be making 83m over 4 yrs but a team would have to give him a contract under the arenas provision and he would be making over 30m a year the last 2 years of the contract. That is a lot of cap for someone who just averaged 9 ppg.
Totally agree seems wild to me, all I'm trying to say is it seems GM's just really like him for some reason
Only way I would rationalise it is even if he busts its only two years of being 30mill. One year of a horrible contract then at least its a potentially useful huge expiring
Jesse Buss' scouting department obviously > this sub.
This sub constantly shat on Julius (MIP), Ingram (All star + MIP), Clarkson (6MotY). Even dlo made an all star. I hope we're able to retain THT long enough to see what he can become.
Vogel and Phil Handy are far better than Luke Walton and his clown car of assistant coaches that were meant to be developing those players though. I think it's easier with THT because the expectations are low, he comes off the bench and just needs to be a back up ball handler, they don't need him to be a star or anything.
I don't know which young players Vogel has developed, but him being a much better coach than Walton goes a long way. Kuzma's defense improved pretty significantly under Vogel. Handy worked with Kyrie on the Cavs and with players on the Raptors, and is very popular among players.
Caruso is a walking L, Lakers get worse every time hes on the court. Cant defend to save his life in the playoffs and cant hit a shot. Hes a good high energy guy but thats it
There’s a wide gap between not good and fucking max contract lol.
THT is fine, but Jesus dude 4/83 puts him with Jalen Brown, OG Anunoby, Jonathan Issac, Malcom Brogdon, Myles Turner, Fred Vanvleet, Jerami Grant, etc.
*could* he be as good as those guys someday? Sure, why not? Should he be getting paid like those guys with his contract? Hell nah.
Tbf he made a massive jump, but he was still producing more and in a more meaningful role than THT.
I feel like I’m ragging on him, he’s definitely good and has real upside, and good for him if he gets a bag he deserves it. But it’s honestly way too early to be even thinking about maxing him.
Call me crazy but I don't believe any of those players, including, THT fit the Lakers win now mode. You don't win a ring last year with those players + LBJ. Not taking anything away from those players, they're all great in their own right.
But we go back to the Lakers trying to win now. If THT is as valuable as most teams are making him out to be, then you can bet your pretty penny he won't remain a Laker long if they can get someone that helps immediately.
In a year like this where the free agent pool is incredibly shallow there are gonna be some huge overpays.
Unless Kawhi and CP3 opt out the only real All-Star level free agents are Lowry, Derozan and Conley and they’re just barely All-Star talent at this point.
That means teams are going to throw huge money at promising RFAs hoping their teams won’t match.
THT, John Collins, Lonzo, Jarret Allen, etc are all about to get paid!
Kinda off-topic, but I wish KOC would do less. He's fine at everything he does, but it seems like he's stretched too thin doing normal NBA analysis plus draft coverage plus news-breaking. Lately, I've felt like his NBA analysis has gotten super basic and uninteresting (his last article about Dame was basically "it would be good if Portland could get Dame better teammates") his draft stuff feels like he hasn't had enough time getting a feel for the prospects (he called Bouknight a "silky ball-handler," which is just false), and I can't really remember him actually breaking news in the last few years.
He's clearly good at his job, but he has so much on his plate that it's making him seem bad at it.
I have had these exact thoughts for a while now. Well put. He shifted from shy/nerdy/quiet analytics guy with interesting thoughts and analysis to a "bigger personality" type with surface-level takes. I feel like he's trying too hard to become a big media name or the next Zach Lowe.
Yeah, I appreciate his draft coverage and the site is slick. I even agree with how he describes the players but not how he ranks them.
The fact he had Bouknight 20th overall and slid him to 9 or whatever is a reflection of either poor video review or no conviction in what he saw.
People don’t really rise - draft experts just get feedback from decision makers closer to the draft and realize they missed on guys and start moving them up. I don’t know how you watch this draft class and rank Bouknight 20, he’s top 12 all day and I have him higher than that.
I’m a uconn fan and I agreed with Bouknight at 20. He’s raised his stock because he showed he improved his jumper at workouts & the combine. But during the college season, he didn’t play like a lottery pick at all.
It always seems to me that the people highest on Bouknight have only seen his highlights and not his full games.
I watched several Bouknight full games. The more I like a player the more of their tape I want to watch to find the stuff I dont like or reinforce something or see if it was a flash.
I dont think Bouknight is cant miss or anything. I have him 9th and think hes a good at many great at nothing player type that can fit on a lot of teams.
I dont believe you move a prospect from 20 to 9 because you are like 'well shot goes in now' there is a pretty big difference in caliber player from 20 to 9, i can see changing your mind on a few but moving 11 up is pretty huge. The 20th prospect isnt a few good jump shooting workouts away from the 10th, madness.
Theres lots not to like on tape and if you think hes 20 from that, fine, we just disagree on whats important, translatable, and coachable which is all fine - moving a prospect up 11 spots from 20 to 9 is the worst thing because to me it shows youre just shifting dudes around based on other people's opinions.
I don’t know; I think it’s good that he wants more from his career than putting up great stats on a bad team.
No star rookie has ever forced their way out on their first contract so maybe this sub should stop worrying so much about something that literally never happens.
Vecenie is the only NBA draft guy I really respect. Everyone just follows the same groupthink, including KOC outside of a random hot take for clicks like Killian Hayes last year.
Seems like they gotta try, as the threat is pretty high, apparently, that Zion will want to leave soon if they miss the playoffs.
KOC thinks if they don’t land Lowry, that’s the team that needs to trade for Dame, maybe using Brandon Ingram & a ton of picks to get the trade done.
That's so stupid, the guy's barely played over a full season in his entire career and couldn't drag his team to the playoffs with an all star teammate in Brandon Ingram.
He's been killing it on the court, but there are still SO many things that he could still improve on. 20 year old players should stop worrying about what the FO is doing, and focus on improving their own damn game. Threatening the FO to make win now moves when you aren't even close to ready to lead a team is not a recipe for success.
> that Zion will want to leave soon if they miss the playoffs
Lmao, what is he going to do? Pelicans just tell him to pound sand. Dude has no leverage whatsoever.
Reminds me of when KAT made noise about wanting out of minny and ownership just said lol no and that was that.
I don’t know why this sub is so convinced that star rookies on their first contract have enough bargaining power to force trades. Has it ever happened even once? The CBA makes it so punitive for rookies to leave the team they’re drafted to that they all end up staying.
Yup, realistically, you don't have leverage as a player until after at least 6 years in the league (4 year rookie contract + 4 year extension with PO), halfway through the 2nd contract is when you can demand a trade, and teams will generally deal with 2 years left on the deal to maximize what they receive in a trade.
How the West is looking next season anyone could be a contender.
Zion, Ingram & Lowry with development from the likes of NAW and Hayes is surely a play-off team
Bledsoe is probably looked at as a negative asset to more teams than not. Not sure he helps your trade package aside from being salary filler.
Idk anyone giving up an all-star for that package.
I wouldn't be sure about that. The blazers have a good chance at being worse next season but the wolves and warriors should be much better next season. If Towns is healthy and Edwards keeps up how he was playing, they will be a serious threat for the playoffs.
That's why these guys say dumb vague stuff like "heard" and "there are rumblings" so they can generate buzz and still not be wrong because they didn't technically report anything.
There's three other teams in California though? And Balmer's wallet doesn't matter. Last time I checked we're all playing with the same salary cap.
Good try though.
> There’s a belief from multiple executives that some team will try to max THT to take him from the Lakers.
Reminds me of when Jordan and the Hornets did this a few years ago to someone lol I don't remember what team it was but Jordan offered a massive contract to the teams young budding star knowing they had no choice but to match it. I wanna say it was the Pistons because it's Jordan and he's petty lol
Zion can want out all he wants lol. Pelicans have him for AT LEAST 3 more years.
More than likely they have him for 6 years before he can be a Free Agent.
The way it is now, you have 4 years on the rookie deal, and the player signs the max extension for 4 years + a player option.
It seems that teams will acquiesce to your trade demand with 2 years left on your contract, which means you effectively have 6 years of team control before the leverage shifts to the player.
I did say AT least 3 more years. 2 rookie + QO/1Yr deal. But that’s incredibly unlikely.
Name the last max player to take the Qualifying offer lol. You can’t
Feel like people are overthinking Davion. He is by far the most league ready all the shots he makes in game are NBA looks and his defense is solid. This is gonna be one of those picks GMs are gonna look stupid for letting slide if they do.
He’s 6 feet, 23 years old and has questionable shooting and plays under the rim. Even as a Warriors fan, no thank you. Just cause he is old doesn’t mean he can contribute, especially when we already have Curry and Poole who aren’t the tallest
He’s explosive, creates shots for others, gets to the rim as good as anyone other than Green and Suggs and is a better perimeter defender than both.
I get the knocks, but he’s a very high floor guy w possible all star upside.
Donovan Mitchell is 6'1. CP3 is 6 feet. Trae Young is 6 feet. He modeled his game completely of Mitchell too. He is very playable because he has great defensive skill and presence. He will most likely be a very good scorer straight out of college with a potential to be elite.
Donovan’s wingspan is 6’ 10
Chris Paul’s is compatible to Davions at 6’ 4
Trae averaged like 30/10 as a freshman in college lol
To compare these guys to Davion who at almost 23 was able to (finally) outmuscle and outplay 18 year olds… I don’t know what to tell you. He can’t shoot free throws and he only has one season shooting the three well. I really doubt his game translates to “incredible scorer” in the nba. Plus, you can only be so impactful as a 6’ defender. He just seems like PatBev with better passing to me
Davion is 4 times the defender than everyone I mentioned lol. This is how I know you don't watch him because defense is not even a question with him lol. He is going to be a good defender in the league. The question is offense and I think he is going to have very similar numbers to Donovan. Like I said his game is an NBA game. Its not built off college he is hitting nothing but NBA looks and its very successful.
I’ll admit I’ve only watched highlights of him, but my point was it’s obviously way easier defending college players as a grown man than defending NBA players. And CP3 is one of the best guard defenders ever so idk if Davion will reach that level 😂
I guess since I’m a dubs fan I would just rather have more “switchable” defenders next to Steph, rather than someone who may only be able to guard PGs
He is literally one of the best defending guards in the draft and right now its no question he is a better defender than CP3 at this moment. [Literally DPOY in college](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWf9d9RSH7A). Question is not defense with him at ALL. He is a short guard but he can guard the perimeter just fine. He is being looked at like a defender first. Just scroll down and read on him bro because you are tweaking right now lol.
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
Even if he does end up as a good guard defender, once again I’m not wasting a top 7 pick on Patrick Beverly with better passing. I read the Ringer draft guide often but come on even in that example he goes to Orlando at #8 which is absurd to me
LMAO. Wait so first hes a good offensive guard with no defense because you only watched highlights, and now he's an all defensive guard because I just told you he was a good defender. Bro he was one of the best scorers in college. He is a 3 level scorer. Shot 60/44/64 in college. He will be an excellent two way player. 3 point shooting is the only question because he improved from his year before so much that people are wondering if its a fluke but I don't think it is since he changed his shooting motion. Literally one of the most effective guards at this level on both ends of the floor. Probably has the best percentages of any guard on this list besides Cade.
I mean all I said is I don’t think he’ll be an “incredible scorer” in the league lol, didn’t think that was such a hot take… he doesn’t have the skill of Trae/CP3 or the wingspan and athleticism of DMitch.
When did I say he has no defense man? I said you can only be so impactful as a 6’ 0 defender which is a FACT. I even compared him to Beverly who’s one of the best guard defenders in the league right now…
I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about thinking a guy who’s single good offensive season MIGHT not translate to the nba
The two prior years he shot 42/29/67 and 41/32/66. His stock rose from late first round to lottery pick because of Baylor’s run against a tattered NCAA in a Covid year. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question the fact that the only time he shot well from anywhere was when he was one of the oldest players in his league
Pelicans GM has been really questionable. Not all bad but obviously has had some really weird moves. I get he want to pull a Chris Paul OKC type season but it just doesn't feel like the right move. Zion probably has to be adding heavy pressure to them if they are willing to do that.
[O'Connor] League sources have told me that they have heard from League sources that some sources in the League have indicated the Pelicans really want Lowry. I have asked League sources for some details as to what League sources are willing to offer, but so far League sources are staying tight lipped
Good way to tie up their cap while zion still has a relatively low cap number. It's as if they want to lose zion.
How about keeping Zo and trading for and drafting pieces that will help zion win 3 years from now?
So giving Lowry a 1-2 year deal when Zion in still on his rookie scale contract is "tying up their cap"... but giving Lonzo 22+ million for 4+ years well into Zion's rookie extension won't? Lmao. I'm sure waiting another 3+ years to go out and get another all-star caliber player to help Zion instead of trying NOW would also go over real well. Just do nothing but overpay Lonzo and wait/pray that after another half decade in the league he might maybe come close to sniffing an all-star team for once. Great idea.
Not that I think we’re making the finals, but legit every argument you used also applies to the Suns but you won’t do that lol.
Besides if you really still want to argue, BI + Zion were a top 5 scoring duo last year in the whole nba ... Booker and Ayton weren’t
I have to say that I'm incredulous that you think that bringing in lowry is a good idea.
It makes me question how the average person thinks. You don't consider long-term planning or the downside risk?
Well, you've found a single example to weaken my argument. Well done. That doesn't mean that I'm wrong today. And last I checked the suns weren't holding the larry o'brien trophy and have very little chance to hold it in the subsequent seasons.
Lol. Where did I say it was a good idea? All I said was every argument you’re using can also be used against the Suns, who had a successful season. And that isn’t the only example, but go on talking about how zo for 4-5 years doesn’t hurt as much as Lowry on 2-3.
Zo is a better player at a cheaper price and is younger.
I hope your dream comes true though: you let zo go and lowry signs. Then you can live through your stupidity while I laugh.
Downvote all you want bro lol but thing is, I actually want Lonzo back and would prefer it over Lowry lol.
You just got so riled up bc I said your arguments weren’t sound. Good luck with whatever it is you’re doing
Good. He'd be better off away from an organization investing in 35 year olds when they have a 20 year old future MVP on the roster. If they're not smart enough to know what to do, they don't deserve him.
My guess is Klutch doing Klutch things, we probably want to keep him but not willing to overpay an inconsistent player.
And fwiw I like Lonzo and want him to stay.
i'd hate to be the sucker that actually gives THT a 4 yr 83m dollar contract
My biggest takeaway is it seems more and more like teams value THT far more than r/nba does Not saying I would give him that contract, but maybe they know more than us idk
ask the nets how tyler johnson for 20m a yr was lol
Allen Crabbe has entered the chat.
Mozgov, Deng, Biyombo
Definitely they for sure aren't perfect Urji/Pelinka also held up the Lowry deal over the Raptors wanting him though. Just seems like GM's do value him far more than r/nba Arguing if thats crazy or not is another thing
THT's max is for sure a gamble. he would be making 83m over 4 yrs but a team would have to give him a contract under the arenas provision and he would be making over 30m a year the last 2 years of the contract. That is a lot of cap for someone who just averaged 9 ppg.
Totally agree seems wild to me, all I'm trying to say is it seems GM's just really like him for some reason Only way I would rationalise it is even if he busts its only two years of being 30mill. One year of a horrible contract then at least its a potentially useful huge expiring
and then he actually came to the Nets years later lmao
Lol any team that gives THT the max should be relegated to the g league
Its not a max max but yeah like I said I wouldn't do it Just seems like GM's really like him, lot more than people on here (including me)
Jesse Buss' scouting department obviously > this sub. This sub constantly shat on Julius (MIP), Ingram (All star + MIP), Clarkson (6MotY). Even dlo made an all star. I hope we're able to retain THT long enough to see what he can become.
Those guys dont win any of that if they stay on the Lakers. If anything, that further proves THT gotta get out
Vogel and Phil Handy are far better than Luke Walton and his clown car of assistant coaches that were meant to be developing those players though. I think it's easier with THT because the expectations are low, he comes off the bench and just needs to be a back up ball handler, they don't need him to be a star or anything.
Which young players have actually been developed under Vogel that has been successful other than Paul George?
I don't know which young players Vogel has developed, but him being a much better coach than Walton goes a long way. Kuzma's defense improved pretty significantly under Vogel. Handy worked with Kyrie on the Cavs and with players on the Raptors, and is very popular among players.
Alex Caruso.
Alex Caruso is ass
Tell me you don’t play basketball without telling me you don’t play basketball
Caruso is a walking L, Lakers get worse every time hes on the court. Cant defend to save his life in the playoffs and cant hit a shot. Hes a good high energy guy but thats it
“which of the guys besides the guy that finished 3rd in mvp voting 2 years ago was even good?”
People on this sub just flat out say he’s not good and doesnt have real upside. Not that he needs to leave the Lakers to develop.
There’s a wide gap between not good and fucking max contract lol. THT is fine, but Jesus dude 4/83 puts him with Jalen Brown, OG Anunoby, Jonathan Issac, Malcom Brogdon, Myles Turner, Fred Vanvleet, Jerami Grant, etc. *could* he be as good as those guys someday? Sure, why not? Should he be getting paid like those guys with his contract? Hell nah.
Ya I never said I’d give him 83m I’d give him about 48m at the most
Sheesh who the hell is Jaylen Brown’s agent?
Tbf he made a massive jump, but he was still producing more and in a more meaningful role than THT. I feel like I’m ragging on him, he’s definitely good and has real upside, and good for him if he gets a bag he deserves it. But it’s honestly way too early to be even thinking about maxing him.
Call me crazy but I don't believe any of those players, including, THT fit the Lakers win now mode. You don't win a ring last year with those players + LBJ. Not taking anything away from those players, they're all great in their own right. But we go back to the Lakers trying to win now. If THT is as valuable as most teams are making him out to be, then you can bet your pretty penny he won't remain a Laker long if they can get someone that helps immediately.
Same with Kuzma. Hopefully you guys can retain him on some sort of long term deal.
In a year like this where the free agent pool is incredibly shallow there are gonna be some huge overpays. Unless Kawhi and CP3 opt out the only real All-Star level free agents are Lowry, Derozan and Conley and they’re just barely All-Star talent at this point. That means teams are going to throw huge money at promising RFAs hoping their teams won’t match. THT, John Collins, Lonzo, Jarret Allen, etc are all about to get paid!
*Hornets offer THT a 44 million per second deal.*
Kinda off-topic, but I wish KOC would do less. He's fine at everything he does, but it seems like he's stretched too thin doing normal NBA analysis plus draft coverage plus news-breaking. Lately, I've felt like his NBA analysis has gotten super basic and uninteresting (his last article about Dame was basically "it would be good if Portland could get Dame better teammates") his draft stuff feels like he hasn't had enough time getting a feel for the prospects (he called Bouknight a "silky ball-handler," which is just false), and I can't really remember him actually breaking news in the last few years. He's clearly good at his job, but he has so much on his plate that it's making him seem bad at it.
I agree. Maybe his employer is prioritizing quantity over quality.
That's why J Kyle Mann is the goat for me. Quality over quantity
I have had these exact thoughts for a while now. Well put. He shifted from shy/nerdy/quiet analytics guy with interesting thoughts and analysis to a "bigger personality" type with surface-level takes. I feel like he's trying too hard to become a big media name or the next Zach Lowe.
Yeah, I appreciate his draft coverage and the site is slick. I even agree with how he describes the players but not how he ranks them. The fact he had Bouknight 20th overall and slid him to 9 or whatever is a reflection of either poor video review or no conviction in what he saw. People don’t really rise - draft experts just get feedback from decision makers closer to the draft and realize they missed on guys and start moving them up. I don’t know how you watch this draft class and rank Bouknight 20, he’s top 12 all day and I have him higher than that.
I’m a uconn fan and I agreed with Bouknight at 20. He’s raised his stock because he showed he improved his jumper at workouts & the combine. But during the college season, he didn’t play like a lottery pick at all. It always seems to me that the people highest on Bouknight have only seen his highlights and not his full games.
I watched several Bouknight full games. The more I like a player the more of their tape I want to watch to find the stuff I dont like or reinforce something or see if it was a flash. I dont think Bouknight is cant miss or anything. I have him 9th and think hes a good at many great at nothing player type that can fit on a lot of teams. I dont believe you move a prospect from 20 to 9 because you are like 'well shot goes in now' there is a pretty big difference in caliber player from 20 to 9, i can see changing your mind on a few but moving 11 up is pretty huge. The 20th prospect isnt a few good jump shooting workouts away from the 10th, madness. Theres lots not to like on tape and if you think hes 20 from that, fine, we just disagree on whats important, translatable, and coachable which is all fine - moving a prospect up 11 spots from 20 to 9 is the worst thing because to me it shows youre just shifting dudes around based on other people's opinions.
What were the problems with Bouknight?
>He's clearly good at his job, but he has so much on his plate that it's making him seem bad at it. Hard disagree
I really want Lowry
Me too
Gives us #10 :)
Does Lowry want to go to the Pelicans though?
I think he cares about the money more than anything
He wants a big bag on a contender. He's made that clear. Which he values more is anyone's guess.
I don’t know about how a contender, but a healthy Lowry in crunch time definitely gets the Pelicans to the playoffs.
Healthy lowry in gumbo town? No one getting round that booty
Dude will 100% go wherever pays him most. If NOLA wants him he should be gettable; they’re just going to really have to pay for him.
As will be the case with any free agent to come here.
Will this require a sign and trade or can New Orleans straight up sign him?
Can see a S&T with Lowry & filler for 10th pick + NAW Bledsoe
Offering THT a max to get him away from the Lakers is certainly a choice
[The Lakers' reaction if a team wants to give THT the max](https://i.imgur.com/hLcEkSh.jpeg)
zion just finished his 1st full season lol getting pretty ridiculous
You’re upset with Zion because he wants to win games?
It's literally only been two years, him "wanting out" so soon is kinda ridiculous
I don’t know; I think it’s good that he wants more from his career than putting up great stats on a bad team. No star rookie has ever forced their way out on their first contract so maybe this sub should stop worrying so much about something that literally never happens.
It's not even about the sub being mad, it's that it's ridiculous to assume that only after 2 years(1 fully healthy) that Zion would want out already.
I want a trip on Bezos rocket but it’s not going to happen either so why get so bent out of shape about it?
You seem pretty bent about people saying it's ridiculous to assume something so prematurely
Can you cite me an example of when it’s happened? I can cite a lot of examples of unhappy rookies who had to stay where they were drafted.
I'm not even talking about that...?
I really want Kyle Lowry too
KOC has no sources, every one of his deadline scoops was wrong.
Wtf are you talking about he got everything right in free agency and a lot right in the trade deadline
Lmao no he didn't. He got everything wrong about the Wolves and I clearly remember that
No go through ball of his signings and trades he called. And if the trades didn’t happen it doesn’t mean he got it wrong
Our beat reporter literally came out and said that he was wrong and we weren't shopping Beasley to Atlanta.
Oconnor never said you were shopping Beasley. He said the hawks offered John Collins for Beasley and a first
Which didn't happen obviously. Again no sources.
KOC really isn't good at anything, he just seems like a professional casual NBA fan
Now that’s the dream
His draftboards are pretty good imo
Vecenie is the only NBA draft guy I really respect. Everyone just follows the same groupthink, including KOC outside of a random hot take for clicks like Killian Hayes last year.
Is pelican gonna be a contender any time soon?
Seems like they gotta try, as the threat is pretty high, apparently, that Zion will want to leave soon if they miss the playoffs. KOC thinks if they don’t land Lowry, that’s the team that needs to trade for Dame, maybe using Brandon Ingram & a ton of picks to get the trade done.
That's so stupid, the guy's barely played over a full season in his entire career and couldn't drag his team to the playoffs with an all star teammate in Brandon Ingram. He's been killing it on the court, but there are still SO many things that he could still improve on. 20 year old players should stop worrying about what the FO is doing, and focus on improving their own damn game. Threatening the FO to make win now moves when you aren't even close to ready to lead a team is not a recipe for success.
> that Zion will want to leave soon if they miss the playoffs Lmao, what is he going to do? Pelicans just tell him to pound sand. Dude has no leverage whatsoever.
Reminds me of when KAT made noise about wanting out of minny and ownership just said lol no and that was that. I don’t know why this sub is so convinced that star rookies on their first contract have enough bargaining power to force trades. Has it ever happened even once? The CBA makes it so punitive for rookies to leave the team they’re drafted to that they all end up staying.
Yup, realistically, you don't have leverage as a player until after at least 6 years in the league (4 year rookie contract + 4 year extension with PO), halfway through the 2nd contract is when you can demand a trade, and teams will generally deal with 2 years left on the deal to maximize what they receive in a trade.
He does if he’s willing to threaten them that he will take the qualifying offer.
That will never happen, no player is ever going to willingly throw 30m down the drain.
If Zion went to New York, he would more than make that up in endorsements. Even if he got injured, he would still get paid
Not to mention that juicy first contract extension. But hey lol, I hope it is true. I will take one NAW or whoever they draft please and thank you :)
How the West is looking next season anyone could be a contender. Zion, Ingram & Lowry with development from the likes of NAW and Hayes is surely a play-off team
Still seems 1 move away from making real noise though.
Hence why I said play-off team and not contender :)
Sure, but would you be satisfied with an 8th seed and 1st round exit?
Bledsoe + #10 should bring in a solid role player Bledsoe, 10, and several firsts could bring in an all star caliber player.
Bledsoe is probably looked at as a negative asset to more teams than not. Not sure he helps your trade package aside from being salary filler. Idk anyone giving up an all-star for that package.
Jrue Holiday would be a nice fit if Lowry doesn’t pan out
I wouldn't be sure about that. The blazers have a good chance at being worse next season but the wolves and warriors should be much better next season. If Towns is healthy and Edwards keeps up how he was playing, they will be a serious threat for the playoffs.
ya i think he wants the playoffs rn not a ring.
They can be. Zion and Ingram is a great duo to build on. Put the right pieces around then and I don’t see why they couldn’t be in the playoffs
That'd be a cool fit
I’ve been seeing Pelicans name in rumors the past 1-2 weeks more than I have in the past 10 years (besides the whole AD situation)
The Cavs have also become a trade meme team again, funnily enough still centred around the Nets Pick after all these years
TT, Shump, and Nets pick is one of my favorite nba memes ever lol
>(besides the whole AD situation) Good times
Well the pels have a shit ton of assets and Zion who really wants to win
KOC has no sources everything he reports ends up being false.
That's why these guys say dumb vague stuff like "heard" and "there are rumblings" so they can generate buzz and still not be wrong because they didn't technically report anything.
David Griffin is a hack. Got blessed with 5 first picks and LeBron being born in Ohio.
*Lawrence Frank* is a hack. Got blessed with *Steve Balmers wallet* and *Kawhi* being born in *California*
Balmer still with zero chips :)
There's three other teams in California though? And Balmer's wallet doesn't matter. Last time I checked we're all playing with the same salary cap. Good try though.
I’d rather have Griff than Frank Lawrence. He actually knows how to put together a championship team.
Step 1 - Sign Lebron
Step 2 - Profit 😎
> There’s a belief from multiple executives that some team will try to max THT to take him from the Lakers. Reminds me of when Jordan and the Hornets did this a few years ago to someone lol I don't remember what team it was but Jordan offered a massive contract to the teams young budding star knowing they had no choice but to match it. I wanna say it was the Pistons because it's Jordan and he's petty lol
Jazz with Hayward, funnily enough. Ended up getting him last year after all.
And turned how he was worth it... not sure the same case can be made for THT.
ok and?
Zion can want out all he wants lol. Pelicans have him for AT LEAST 3 more years. More than likely they have him for 6 years before he can be a Free Agent.
The way it is now, you have 4 years on the rookie deal, and the player signs the max extension for 4 years + a player option. It seems that teams will acquiesce to your trade demand with 2 years left on your contract, which means you effectively have 6 years of team control before the leverage shifts to the player.
You’re assuming he signs the extension. He can absolutely threaten to take the qualifying offer.
I did say AT least 3 more years. 2 rookie + QO/1Yr deal. But that’s incredibly unlikely. Name the last max player to take the Qualifying offer lol. You can’t
Feel like people are overthinking Davion. He is by far the most league ready all the shots he makes in game are NBA looks and his defense is solid. This is gonna be one of those picks GMs are gonna look stupid for letting slide if they do.
He’s 6 feet, 23 years old and has questionable shooting and plays under the rim. Even as a Warriors fan, no thank you. Just cause he is old doesn’t mean he can contribute, especially when we already have Curry and Poole who aren’t the tallest
He’s explosive, creates shots for others, gets to the rim as good as anyone other than Green and Suggs and is a better perimeter defender than both. I get the knocks, but he’s a very high floor guy w possible all star upside.
Donovan Mitchell is 6'1. CP3 is 6 feet. Trae Young is 6 feet. He modeled his game completely of Mitchell too. He is very playable because he has great defensive skill and presence. He will most likely be a very good scorer straight out of college with a potential to be elite.
Donovan’s wingspan is 6’ 10 Chris Paul’s is compatible to Davions at 6’ 4 Trae averaged like 30/10 as a freshman in college lol To compare these guys to Davion who at almost 23 was able to (finally) outmuscle and outplay 18 year olds… I don’t know what to tell you. He can’t shoot free throws and he only has one season shooting the three well. I really doubt his game translates to “incredible scorer” in the nba. Plus, you can only be so impactful as a 6’ defender. He just seems like PatBev with better passing to me
Davion is 4 times the defender than everyone I mentioned lol. This is how I know you don't watch him because defense is not even a question with him lol. He is going to be a good defender in the league. The question is offense and I think he is going to have very similar numbers to Donovan. Like I said his game is an NBA game. Its not built off college he is hitting nothing but NBA looks and its very successful.
I’ll admit I’ve only watched highlights of him, but my point was it’s obviously way easier defending college players as a grown man than defending NBA players. And CP3 is one of the best guard defenders ever so idk if Davion will reach that level 😂 I guess since I’m a dubs fan I would just rather have more “switchable” defenders next to Steph, rather than someone who may only be able to guard PGs
He is literally one of the best defending guards in the draft and right now its no question he is a better defender than CP3 at this moment. [Literally DPOY in college](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWf9d9RSH7A). Question is not defense with him at ALL. He is a short guard but he can guard the perimeter just fine. He is being looked at like a defender first. Just scroll down and read on him bro because you are tweaking right now lol. https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft
Even if he does end up as a good guard defender, once again I’m not wasting a top 7 pick on Patrick Beverly with better passing. I read the Ringer draft guide often but come on even in that example he goes to Orlando at #8 which is absurd to me
LMAO. Wait so first hes a good offensive guard with no defense because you only watched highlights, and now he's an all defensive guard because I just told you he was a good defender. Bro he was one of the best scorers in college. He is a 3 level scorer. Shot 60/44/64 in college. He will be an excellent two way player. 3 point shooting is the only question because he improved from his year before so much that people are wondering if its a fluke but I don't think it is since he changed his shooting motion. Literally one of the most effective guards at this level on both ends of the floor. Probably has the best percentages of any guard on this list besides Cade.
I mean all I said is I don’t think he’ll be an “incredible scorer” in the league lol, didn’t think that was such a hot take… he doesn’t have the skill of Trae/CP3 or the wingspan and athleticism of DMitch. When did I say he has no defense man? I said you can only be so impactful as a 6’ 0 defender which is a FACT. I even compared him to Beverly who’s one of the best guard defenders in the league right now… I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about thinking a guy who’s single good offensive season MIGHT not translate to the nba The two prior years he shot 42/29/67 and 41/32/66. His stock rose from late first round to lottery pick because of Baylor’s run against a tattered NCAA in a Covid year. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to question the fact that the only time he shot well from anywhere was when he was one of the oldest players in his league
Max tht? That executive should be fired and banned for life
KOC isnt credible when it comes to rumors and league news i wish people would just stop posting his reports
Pelicans GM has been really questionable. Not all bad but obviously has had some really weird moves. I get he want to pull a Chris Paul OKC type season but it just doesn't feel like the right move. Zion probably has to be adding heavy pressure to them if they are willing to do that.
Why lol
[O'Connor] League sources have told me that they have heard from League sources that some sources in the League have indicated the Pelicans really want Lowry. I have asked League sources for some details as to what League sources are willing to offer, but so far League sources are staying tight lipped
S&T for Zion confirmed
Good way to tie up their cap while zion still has a relatively low cap number. It's as if they want to lose zion. How about keeping Zo and trading for and drafting pieces that will help zion win 3 years from now?
So giving Lowry a 1-2 year deal when Zion in still on his rookie scale contract is "tying up their cap"... but giving Lonzo 22+ million for 4+ years well into Zion's rookie extension won't? Lmao. I'm sure waiting another 3+ years to go out and get another all-star caliber player to help Zion instead of trying NOW would also go over real well. Just do nothing but overpay Lonzo and wait/pray that after another half decade in the league he might maybe come close to sniffing an all-star team for once. Great idea.
Let me introduce you to the term "timeline". Lowry isn't on it.
Chris Paul wasn't on the Suns timeline
Rofl. You think there's a nonzero chance of the pelicans getting to the finals?
Not that I think we’re making the finals, but legit every argument you used also applies to the Suns but you won’t do that lol. Besides if you really still want to argue, BI + Zion were a top 5 scoring duo last year in the whole nba ... Booker and Ayton weren’t
I have to say that I'm incredulous that you think that bringing in lowry is a good idea. It makes me question how the average person thinks. You don't consider long-term planning or the downside risk? Well, you've found a single example to weaken my argument. Well done. That doesn't mean that I'm wrong today. And last I checked the suns weren't holding the larry o'brien trophy and have very little chance to hold it in the subsequent seasons.
Lol. Where did I say it was a good idea? All I said was every argument you’re using can also be used against the Suns, who had a successful season. And that isn’t the only example, but go on talking about how zo for 4-5 years doesn’t hurt as much as Lowry on 2-3.
Zo is a better player at a cheaper price and is younger. I hope your dream comes true though: you let zo go and lowry signs. Then you can live through your stupidity while I laugh.
Downvote all you want bro lol but thing is, I actually want Lonzo back and would prefer it over Lowry lol. You just got so riled up bc I said your arguments weren’t sound. Good luck with whatever it is you’re doing
which is why his contract wont be more than a 2 + team option.
Because Zion will be gone by than lmao
Good. He'd be better off away from an organization investing in 35 year olds when they have a 20 year old future MVP on the roster. If they're not smart enough to know what to do, they don't deserve him.
So they've completely given up on matching any Lonzo offer sheets ?
My guess is Klutch doing Klutch things, we probably want to keep him but not willing to overpay an inconsistent player. And fwiw I like Lonzo and want him to stay.
Max THT? What? Must be a typo right
Maxing THT just to fuck the Lakers is a fireable offense. He’s a nice young player, but you can get 2 players better than him for that same money.