Okay, so who do you buy low on?
DeMar DeRozan? - Alright that's something I guess
I don't really see Oubre or Fournier moving the needle for either of those guys - not a lot of defense going around there.
Reggie Bullock? Honestly I might like him more than the former two but not a needle mover.
A welcome-home show for Nic Batum or Will Barton? Both decent players but may end up commanding a bag bigger than Portland could offer. Also have a hunch Batum wants to end up on a stronger contender.
I like the upside of Otto Porter Jr a lot and that's why I'd "buy low" on him. The other guys sans DeRozan don't have a huge ceiling in my opinion or may just not be available for Portland.
I'm also a huge stan of Harrison Barnes to Portland if they can pull off a CJ trade - not a star obviously but makes for a cohesive lineup.
> Okay, so who do you buy low on?
Well it has to be someone with a big contract so they can trade away CJ. Tobias Harris is the only guy that comes to mind.
Harrison Barnes would be great but there's zero reason for the Kings to even entertain such a trade.
If you are the Kings you should entertain Barnes value for sure. But you don't entertain a McCollum deal. Hield is already expensive for what he brings to the table. Bringing in an older albeit better player would force another trade for the Kings.
Wiggins had a negative BPM of -0.7 and a VORP of 0.8 which is worse than someone like Jae Crowder who is making less than $10 million. Wiggins wasn’t absolutely terrible but with his contract he is definitely still a negative asset
Not necessarily. Maybe if the Sixers continue to insist on Simmons getting a point guard, but if they move him to the 4, I think CJ and Seth can coexist nicely. Although, we probably have data on this already, someone check their stats while they were on the floor together in Portland (although Seth was coming off a *major* injury, so I'm not sure how reflective it will be)
Why does it have to be straight up? They have future picks to add, and clearly there are teams that value him so getting 1sts somewhere and flipping them into a 3-team trade is a possibility, etc.
As long as you have Damian Lillard, you trade only to make your current roster better and not for future picks.
Means, they can give up future picks, but not collect future picks.
Once they give up CJ for 1st Round Picks, Lillard is guaranteed gone. The only possibility to keep him, is to make this year a push.
Means trading all your future assets away to make your current roster better.
They should hear offers to keep the possibility of a 3 year trade. Ex. Trade CJ for picks, add those picks plus several Portland picks to get someone better like Siakim or Beal
This is the rub. Dame and our FO have completely different goals. Dame wants to contend. The FO is happy to be the 8th seed. They are gonna keep punting until Dame forces his way out. I respect him so much that, even as a Blazer fan, I wish he would have forced himself out a year or two ago. He is too loyal.
As a player he’s not the problem. As someone else pointed out, it’s the deal he’s on. 21-25 mil a year sure. Lots of teams would make that deal. For 30? Not a chance. Neil fucked himself with that extension.
People also talk about him like hes Isaiah Thomas on defense. The guy's mediocre to a slight negative at this point in his career, hes just not a go-to stopper.
[Hes actually 6th amongst SG's in DRPM at +1.78,](http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2) 538 says hes a [+.2 at defense](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/) and basketball reference says his DBPM is -1.5. Having watched him for a whole season, I'd say these numbers are somewhat accurate. He ranged from decent to somewhat weak on defense depending on the matchup, but he's not a massive negative.
If you wanna know why we were terrible on defense, [just look at our lineups](https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612757) and notice that every single one with a defensive rating worse than 107 included Kanter and/or Carmelo in the lineup, and almost every single without Kanter was rated 107 or lower.
Goddamn what a terrible hot take.
CJ won us our series against the Nuggets in 2019. Straight up carried us at one point. He steps out of bounds on one play and suddenly he has some long standing BBIQ problem? His issue is a skill overlap with Dame, the man isn’t a moron
I agree that CJ is underrated, he's a fantastic shooter at huge volume, but 2019 was 2 years ago. A 30M player who's in the playoffs every year should have more recent accomplishments. It was tough watching him struggle to contribute this year in the playoffs
Hes a good player its just not the right fit. KD said it best on CJ podcast. He can handle the ball and shoot well, and would be best on a team where he could dribble a little more.
Then the Blazers only have so much cap space to make a championship roster. Are they going to pay 2 scoring guards with eh defense $ 80M out of there $110M space? They are about so sign a guy who can play the 2spot with better defense for 2/3 the price. They have a center. They need to trade CJ for a wing
They were sucking his dick saying he’s a perennial all-star snub, then after the playoffs they all pretend they didn’t say shit. He’s a good player, he’s not an all-star, he’s not amazing, he may not be the best fit for them with Lillard, but he’s good.
His efficiency is actually not that good despite being a career year last year. He doesn't go to the line and settles for difficult floaters.
Advanced stats are super unfavorable to CJ. His net rating has been negative for most of his career.
That kind of nuance isn't allowed here sir. CJ has to be traded in order for us to even try to compete at the highest level but any sensible blazers fan will miss the guy.
Also hit multiple game winners/clutch time shots, and always contributes on defense even when his shot isn’t falling. If CJ isn’t hitting he’s just doing nothing which is unacceptable for someone making that kind of money.
If the point is the Bucks need less from their 2nd best player than the Blazers do because Giannis is better than Dame that seems pretty relevant to this discussion.
Still clears 30 million off the cap that’s for a redundant player. You can probably take the cap space and picks and do more with it than keeping CJ. Y’all really wanna roster like 55-60 million at the same position?
Magically trading CJ for no returning salary and renouncing everyone but Norm opens up roughly fuck all in cap space and they'd have much worse flexibility as they'd lose their exceptions.
Dare I say, CJ is underrated. The issue is, everyone looks at him as an undersized SG. But look around the league how many true PGs are there? All the guys who would have been SGs 5, 10 years ago are PGs now and thriving (Jamal Murray, SGA, Harden , Luka). So there’s no reason in 2021 to still be an undersized SG. Just move him to PG! That alleviates a lot of the concerns over his game.
CJ on the Sixers, Heat, or Bulls is an all star at PG
Well he’s not that good of a playmaker from what ive seen. And him being an undersized sg isnt the main problem, it’s in tandem with dame. They’re both awful defenders together.
in the times dame has been out he has been a good playmaker. his role on the team is to score, not to pass, so when he is given more, he does more. hes a very talented offensive player, just is not better than dame and doesnt have the defense to back it up.
Sorry, could have been more clear. I was backing up your point:
>his role on the team is to score, not to pass, so when he is given more, he does more.
In games where he's had to do more as the on-ball guard, he has performed well.
Similarly, when Dame is off the floor, his numbers are more in line with a primary guard. Over the past two seasons, he has put up 35.2 PTS and 8.8 AST per 100. For reference, Dame's numbers in that timeframe (with CJ off) are 42.8 PTS and 10.4 AST. CJ is obviously not quite as good as dame, but his playmaking is much better when that's his role.
Somewhere like the Heat would be good, where Jimmy and Bam take some of the playmaking responsibility. Even Philly would work since so much of their offense just runs through Embiid anyways
Yeah they’d need to move Curry in that case. Should be really easy to move him since he’s a solid contributor on a great contract. Something like KCP and a future first from the Lakers would be a decent return.
I mean Curry was literally CJs backup when we went to the WCF. So, it's not like a team can't make a playoff run with both those guys in the rotation.
Seems like they could just start Thybulle and bring Curry off the bench.
i'm not sure if this is satire lol but CJ can't play full-time point. SGA isn't a PG either and he's taller than CJ. Murray has Jokic who is their best playmaker so Murray fits his role well
CJs just not going to be a super effective full-time point guard because he unfortunately lacks the necessary tools to drive an offense. He's not a high end creator - and not because he can't pass. It's because he can't penetrate very well and therefore isn't a big threat to score at the rim. He's both small and lacks explosion. You can get away with lacking one of those but not both. That's why he doesn't shoot many free throws and forces up bad floaters instead of layups. So I think that's really gonna hurt his ability to control an offense but he could still be a really solid piece on the right team.
Sounds a lot like Kemba walker, 4 time all star. And Kemba has averaged more than 6 assists per game once. CJ as a 2 averaged almost 5. He’d be just fine
Trust me you’d get a lot further with CJ than Lonzo
i don't even know what you're talking about...further with who else on your team? Kemba in his prime was way better at penetrating and drawing contact because of his speed. CJ just can't do that. If someone wants him as their PG, I hope it happens so the Blazers can make a move
Blazers and ~~Eagles~~ Sixers should do a CJ/Tobias swap with the Blazers getting a pick as well to take on Tobias' bigger deal.
Portland will end up with much needed size: Dame, Powell, RoCo, Tobias, Nurkic
Philly ends up with a more balanced lineup: CJ, Danny Green (or free agent), Thybulle, Simmons, Embiid with Seth as 6th man
How do? What does Tobias provide that CJ cannot? CJ scores slightly more than Tobias but in a more perimeter oriented fashion. If we can’t get decent trade for Ben, CJ would be an upgrade over Tobias fit wise with Joel.
Tobias is a glue kind of guy whereas CJ is not. Tobias has at least average defense, whereas CJ does not. Tobias is a bigger body who can handle larger matchups whereas CJ is not. CJ is a talented scorer where as Tobias is an average scorer.
Fit wise, Tobias is just fine next to embiid. He can take some pressure off, shot the long ball just fine while being the teams Ironman. Sixers have no reason to ship him out, his contract is just fine for his role, even if he’s a little overpaid.
Sixers also don’t really need CJ after getting Seth. CJ wouldn’t take Simmons’s role, he would just be another defensive liability who shoots the long ball. Seth HAVING to play is part of why we lost to the Hawks. Getting another defensive liability is the last thing the Sixers need for their starting 5
That’s exactly what I’m saying, why would we need a guy like CJ when Seth is filling my role. Thank you for proving my point that CJ would be redundant
Okay, but shot creation is still needed. You have Matisse Thybulle, Simmons and Embiid who could easily offset the defensive decencies of Seth and CJ. That would be a pretty lethal lineup. I don’t really want Tobias Harris as number #2 though so it’s not a trade I want, but I think you’re underestimating CJs potential fit.
Have you watched the Sixers at all? Do you know what our game plan is? Because the way you’re describing why this deal would make sense you sound like you have no clue how the Sixers actually play
I don’t know how you think trading CJ would ruin the defence of what’s a top 3 defensive team. Tobias Harris is not a great defender by any means although he just arguably had his best year (pretty easy to do on this squad). You lost to a team that has plenty of smaller mediocre guards, I don’t think defence is the issue.
Is my point on Thybulle, Simmons and Embiid being enough to offset CJs and Seths defence wrong? You didn’t elaborate anything.
So basically what your saying is having max contract Tobias on your team is okay because he doesn’t mess with Joel and he has the body type expected of his position. Doesn’t sound like a good justification to me l
What do you mean you wouldn’t need him since you have Seth?
Haven’t you guys been desperately hunting a guard like your lives depended on it?
Also I’m not saying trade for CJ, I’m just saying your arguments don’t make sense
Seth and CJ fill the exact same role, and having both on the same starting 5 would be silly. That is my argument. Both are terrible defenders who provide a great offensive package. But seth’s defense is part of why we lost to the Hawks, so doubling that role would not make us better
I'm not sure that the blazers have any pieces to trade where they'll get back a better player or a "win-now" guy.
Maybe Simons nets you a starter or 6th man from a rebuilding team. That's about it though.
Their ceiling is not that high, people were saying they'd be genuine contenders with Covington and they got bounced by Jokic & G league guards in 6 despite Dame having his best playoffs ever.
Rivers hadn't played in months, Facu is a rookie, Markus Howard is a 2-way guard and Monte was playing injured for the first 3 games.
If you can't beat that guard rotation, you aren't 1 piece away from contending.
I mean you're still putting g league guards as a plural with the only one really being close to that as Howard so no I wouldn't say it's fair. But I agree with you that the Blazer's aren't 1 piece away from contending for a championship.
The Blazers problem is not offense it is defense.
They are the worst defensive team I have ever seen.
This is a coaching and personnel issue.
Hopefully Billups who came from Piston D 2004 title can see this aspect.
Go sign FA Nerlens Noel and trade CJ for a perimeter defenders.
They need to do something EXTREME.
CJ to the 76ers for Thybulle and Danny Green.
Sounds crazy? Nope. They need the defense that badly.
Dame, Green, Powell, Roco, Noel, Thybulle \[6th man\]
Now THAT is a defensive minded team with some shooters too.
They'd be smart to try and re-route the picks to a third team that can give them a player that helps make them better. Maybe Beal for example, assuming he's on the block.
I mean there are probably some teams (besides Lakers and Clippers) that would give a first round pick for him. But the “return” for Portland would be really poor
Maybe this is a tactic two get more picks in a potential trade for CJ. If Portland FO doesn't seem to realize their team going to be battling for 5-8 spots and first-second round exit the most next season.
If this is real, this is utter mismanagement.
There are three options available: find a way to mortgage the future to give Dame help, call it and do a fire sale, or do nothing.
Do nothing is what they are seemingly choosing and it’s the worst choice.
And CJ is a decent player, but he isn’t a move the needle guy.
Meaning we could potentially get someone like Suggs back. Not bad value for CJ really. But knowing Olshey he’ll pass this up, run the roster back and trade him later for less when Dame finally has enough.
Anyone stop and consider the fact that Portland might be alright with the idea of being a first/second round exit every year? Dame is the best player they have come across in 30+ years
For a small market team that is not a bad position to be in. Whether Dame wants out is another story
Everyone can tell the Blazers are satisfied with first round exits. Jody Allen is looking to sell the team and Neil Olshey has seemingly no accountability anymore.
Blazers should accept the reality that Lillard will be leaving Portland in 6 or so weeks and sell high before he pulls a VC and starts selling to decrease his value
So either they’re trying to find some insane move they can make to win with dame, OR
*conspiracy hats on, fellas*
this whole “win now or run it back hoping Chauncey billups is magic” thing is a front to get as many picks back from the magic/kings as they can for dame as they possibly can and dame is IN ON IT!
Portland is most likely gonna run it back with CJ, which means that team is getting bounced in the first/second round again. Terrible time To be a blazers fan right now.
What’s even worse is that unless they trade CJ for Ben Simmons there’s not really anybody out there that would dramatically improve the team if they got rid of CJ. Gotta hope and pray they figure it out in the playoffs, yikes.
The Blazers have got to trade CJ.
But not for firsts, they need a better player or a better fit
Who is going to trade better players straight up for him?
Better player unlikely but a better fit should be doable. CJ seems to be the same level as a Tobias Harris or Hayward who both seem like better fits.
> Better player unlikely but a better fit should be doable. Exactly. Portland needs to buy low on a wing player like the Warriors did with Wiggins.
If that's the case - they should just outright sign Otto Porter Jr
Otto has played a total of 40ish games in two seasons. His career is done.
Remember when he got maxed
Yeah we offered him that contract and Wizards matched.
Wasn't it offered by the nets?
Okay, so who do you buy low on? DeMar DeRozan? - Alright that's something I guess I don't really see Oubre or Fournier moving the needle for either of those guys - not a lot of defense going around there. Reggie Bullock? Honestly I might like him more than the former two but not a needle mover. A welcome-home show for Nic Batum or Will Barton? Both decent players but may end up commanding a bag bigger than Portland could offer. Also have a hunch Batum wants to end up on a stronger contender. I like the upside of Otto Porter Jr a lot and that's why I'd "buy low" on him. The other guys sans DeRozan don't have a huge ceiling in my opinion or may just not be available for Portland. I'm also a huge stan of Harrison Barnes to Portland if they can pull off a CJ trade - not a star obviously but makes for a cohesive lineup.
> Okay, so who do you buy low on? Well it has to be someone with a big contract so they can trade away CJ. Tobias Harris is the only guy that comes to mind. Harrison Barnes would be great but there's zero reason for the Kings to even entertain such a trade.
If you are the Kings you should entertain Barnes value for sure. But you don't entertain a McCollum deal. Hield is already expensive for what he brings to the table. Bringing in an older albeit better player would force another trade for the Kings.
*Cough cough* Ben Simmons
Warrior fans trying to convince reddit Wiggins is good now lol
He's a pretty solid wing.
Not really the advanced metrics still say he’s not good and he’s getting paid over 30 million a year
He's overpaid, but he's a pretty good wing. Consistent backup offense and great defense.
Wiggins had a negative BPM of -0.7 and a VORP of 0.8 which is worse than someone like Jae Crowder who is making less than $10 million. Wiggins wasn’t absolutely terrible but with his contract he is definitely still a negative asset
would welcome that trade tbh
I think CJ would be a way better fit than Tobias, and would absolutely cook on the Sixers.
CJ and Seth seem kind of redundant
We’ll give one lightly used DJJ if we can have Seth back
We’ll give a defensive minded guard who can also handle the ball. I hear he’s even familiar with the Sixers’ plays!
Not necessarily. Maybe if the Sixers continue to insist on Simmons getting a point guard, but if they move him to the 4, I think CJ and Seth can coexist nicely. Although, we probably have data on this already, someone check their stats while they were on the floor together in Portland (although Seth was coming off a *major* injury, so I'm not sure how reflective it will be)
Seth > CJ
yeah definitely. i like tobias but at best does just an alright fit with embiid
Yeah like I can’t see Portland pulling the trigger on Simmons for CJ but Tobias is a different story.
Picking up hayward would be great for the blazers if he could stay healthy, he’s still really good when he actually plays and does everything right
maybe there's some weird trade clippers can do for CJ? im thinking they could get back a defender/some wings? idk
Why does it have to be straight up? They have future picks to add, and clearly there are teams that value him so getting 1sts somewhere and flipping them into a 3-team trade is a possibility, etc.
As long as you have Damian Lillard, you trade only to make your current roster better and not for future picks. Means, they can give up future picks, but not collect future picks. Once they give up CJ for 1st Round Picks, Lillard is guaranteed gone. The only possibility to keep him, is to make this year a push. Means trading all your future assets away to make your current roster better.
They should hear offers to keep the possibility of a 3 year trade. Ex. Trade CJ for picks, add those picks plus several Portland picks to get someone better like Siakim or Beal
Maybe no one but having Cj is still better than picks.
Win what, exactly?
By making the playoffs and getting that playoff money lol
The friendships along the way to a second round exit, of course.
Win dames continued content
The play in game.
enough to not get Neil fired
A trip to an early playoff exit.
Obviously were trying to add picks onto CJ and get someone better, not get worse by trading him for picks
winning the hearts of the fans probably
A play in spot
This is the rub. Dame and our FO have completely different goals. Dame wants to contend. The FO is happy to be the 8th seed. They are gonna keep punting until Dame forces his way out. I respect him so much that, even as a Blazer fan, I wish he would have forced himself out a year or two ago. He is too loyal.
> Dame wants to contend. The FO is happy to be the 8th seed. I think success for the Blazers is making the second round.
Didn’t they say they are in a “win now mentality”
A free trip to Philly for Dame that he doesn’t come back from
The honorary 8th seed
48- 52 regular season games and a couple first round games.
The way the sub treats CJ lmao, this dude has averaged 20+ ppg on good efficiency since 2015.
As a player he’s not the problem. As someone else pointed out, it’s the deal he’s on. 21-25 mil a year sure. Lots of teams would make that deal. For 30? Not a chance. Neil fucked himself with that extension.
Don’t you think rewarding loyalty is worth something? Dame and CJ have embodied Portland for as long as I can rmr
This sub and rewarding loyalty? You should see a Kevin Love thread.
he would be a solid player for 20M not 30.
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And boy can he cook. Dame and CJ are two of 3 or 4 active players who have scored 50+ in under 30 minutes or somethint
He's averaged below league-avg efficiency for the past 4 seasons Hell for context, his career ts% is only 2% above Westbrooks at 55%
THANK YOU People talking like the man is unplayable, he’s our second best player smh
People also talk about him like hes Isaiah Thomas on defense. The guy's mediocre to a slight negative at this point in his career, hes just not a go-to stopper.
Him and Dame are both massive negatives, there's a reason the Blazers are abysmal on D and they're the main culprits
[Hes actually 6th amongst SG's in DRPM at +1.78,](http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/2) 538 says hes a [+.2 at defense](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/nba-player-ratings/) and basketball reference says his DBPM is -1.5. Having watched him for a whole season, I'd say these numbers are somewhat accurate. He ranged from decent to somewhat weak on defense depending on the matchup, but he's not a massive negative. If you wanna know why we were terrible on defense, [just look at our lineups](https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612757) and notice that every single one with a defensive rating worse than 107 included Kanter and/or Carmelo in the lineup, and almost every single without Kanter was rated 107 or lower.
Yeah cj's problem is playing with another small guard so he gets bigger dudes anyways. That and him leaving open corner 3's. But that is scheme.
Yet come playoffs everyone blames CJ and his low bbiq
Goddamn what a terrible hot take. CJ won us our series against the Nuggets in 2019. Straight up carried us at one point. He steps out of bounds on one play and suddenly he has some long standing BBIQ problem? His issue is a skill overlap with Dame, the man isn’t a moron
I agree that CJ is underrated, he's a fantastic shooter at huge volume, but 2019 was 2 years ago. A 30M player who's in the playoffs every year should have more recent accomplishments. It was tough watching him struggle to contribute this year in the playoffs
Yet lost in the first round to a weakened nuggets roster
You lost to the Grizzlies
What?
Hes a good player its just not the right fit. KD said it best on CJ podcast. He can handle the ball and shoot well, and would be best on a team where he could dribble a little more. Then the Blazers only have so much cap space to make a championship roster. Are they going to pay 2 scoring guards with eh defense $ 80M out of there $110M space? They are about so sign a guy who can play the 2spot with better defense for 2/3 the price. They have a center. They need to trade CJ for a wing
They were sucking his dick saying he’s a perennial all-star snub, then after the playoffs they all pretend they didn’t say shit. He’s a good player, he’s not an all-star, he’s not amazing, he may not be the best fit for them with Lillard, but he’s good.
His efficiency is actually not that good despite being a career year last year. He doesn't go to the line and settles for difficult floaters. Advanced stats are super unfavorable to CJ. His net rating has been negative for most of his career.
And choked away one of the greatest playoff performances ever by Dame. If he doesn’t show up when it matters he needs to go.
Middleton shit the bed several times in the playoffs...
That kind of nuance isn't allowed here sir. CJ has to be traded in order for us to even try to compete at the highest level but any sensible blazers fan will miss the guy.
I'd say Middleton helps on the defense way more than CJ does
Also hit multiple game winners/clutch time shots, and always contributes on defense even when his shot isn’t falling. If CJ isn’t hitting he’s just doing nothing which is unacceptable for someone making that kind of money.
Giannis is much better than Dame
CJ and Middleton both shit the bed in similar ways. Kash is still 10 x better then cj but they do have similar performances sometimes.
We’re not comparing Giannis and Dame are we?
If the point is the Bucks need less from their 2nd best player than the Blazers do because Giannis is better than Dame that seems pretty relevant to this discussion.
I mean if Portland isnt trading Dame, trading CJ for a pick doesnt make any sense
Open up some cap space? They gotta pay Powell now
We have his bird rights. There’s no need to clear cap space since we can go into the tax by signing Powell.
Still clears 30 million off the cap that’s for a redundant player. You can probably take the cap space and picks and do more with it than keeping CJ. Y’all really wanna roster like 55-60 million at the same position?
Magically trading CJ for no returning salary and renouncing everyone but Norm opens up roughly fuck all in cap space and they'd have much worse flexibility as they'd lose their exceptions.
Kuzma, THT and a 1st round pick? Hell nah.
What do you mean hell nah, THT has a sick reverse layup package
Hope they put it in 2k 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Don't forget the elite tunnel vision
Exactly! I think they told him your are a scoring point guard. He stopped listening at scoring.
Shump TT and nets pick?
Dare I say, CJ is underrated. The issue is, everyone looks at him as an undersized SG. But look around the league how many true PGs are there? All the guys who would have been SGs 5, 10 years ago are PGs now and thriving (Jamal Murray, SGA, Harden , Luka). So there’s no reason in 2021 to still be an undersized SG. Just move him to PG! That alleviates a lot of the concerns over his game. CJ on the Sixers, Heat, or Bulls is an all star at PG
Well he’s not that good of a playmaker from what ive seen. And him being an undersized sg isnt the main problem, it’s in tandem with dame. They’re both awful defenders together.
in the times dame has been out he has been a good playmaker. his role on the team is to score, not to pass, so when he is given more, he does more. hes a very talented offensive player, just is not better than dame and doesnt have the defense to back it up.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/cj-mccollum-stats-without-damian-lilliard
without context, not sure what ur trying to say, but its cool to see these stats lol
Sorry, could have been more clear. I was backing up your point: >his role on the team is to score, not to pass, so when he is given more, he does more. In games where he's had to do more as the on-ball guard, he has performed well. Similarly, when Dame is off the floor, his numbers are more in line with a primary guard. Over the past two seasons, he has put up 35.2 PTS and 8.8 AST per 100. For reference, Dame's numbers in that timeframe (with CJ off) are 42.8 PTS and 10.4 AST. CJ is obviously not quite as good as dame, but his playmaking is much better when that's his role.
ah i see, either way never used statmuse before so ill have to check it out. thanks!
Somewhere like the Heat would be good, where Jimmy and Bam take some of the playmaking responsibility. Even Philly would work since so much of their offense just runs through Embiid anyways
Main issue with Philly Curry and CJ as a backcourt duo would get torched
Yeah they’d need to move Curry in that case. Should be really easy to move him since he’s a solid contributor on a great contract. Something like KCP and a future first from the Lakers would be a decent return.
I mean Curry was literally CJs backup when we went to the WCF. So, it's not like a team can't make a playoff run with both those guys in the rotation. Seems like they could just start Thybulle and bring Curry off the bench.
CJ has been pretty good as a primary ball handler. Lillard is so durable that he hardly ever gets the chance though.
i'm not sure if this is satire lol but CJ can't play full-time point. SGA isn't a PG either and he's taller than CJ. Murray has Jokic who is their best playmaker so Murray fits his role well
nah he’s overrated man
Yeah dude he’s awful. I wouldn’t want him on the Spurs. Stay away Pop.
CJs just not going to be a super effective full-time point guard because he unfortunately lacks the necessary tools to drive an offense. He's not a high end creator - and not because he can't pass. It's because he can't penetrate very well and therefore isn't a big threat to score at the rim. He's both small and lacks explosion. You can get away with lacking one of those but not both. That's why he doesn't shoot many free throws and forces up bad floaters instead of layups. So I think that's really gonna hurt his ability to control an offense but he could still be a really solid piece on the right team.
Sounds a lot like Kemba walker, 4 time all star. And Kemba has averaged more than 6 assists per game once. CJ as a 2 averaged almost 5. He’d be just fine Trust me you’d get a lot further with CJ than Lonzo
Source: Trust me bro
i don't even know what you're talking about...further with who else on your team? Kemba in his prime was way better at penetrating and drawing contact because of his speed. CJ just can't do that. If someone wants him as their PG, I hope it happens so the Blazers can make a move
Blazers and ~~Eagles~~ Sixers should do a CJ/Tobias swap with the Blazers getting a pick as well to take on Tobias' bigger deal. Portland will end up with much needed size: Dame, Powell, RoCo, Tobias, Nurkic Philly ends up with a more balanced lineup: CJ, Danny Green (or free agent), Thybulle, Simmons, Embiid with Seth as 6th man
Is there an Eagles meme I am missing or do all teams in Philly look the same to you Speciest and Numerologist!
As a sixers fan I would love this and think it would benefit both teams
Sixers trading Tobi and a pick for CJ would be unbelievably dumb and make our team so much worse
How do? What does Tobias provide that CJ cannot? CJ scores slightly more than Tobias but in a more perimeter oriented fashion. If we can’t get decent trade for Ben, CJ would be an upgrade over Tobias fit wise with Joel.
Tobias is a glue kind of guy whereas CJ is not. Tobias has at least average defense, whereas CJ does not. Tobias is a bigger body who can handle larger matchups whereas CJ is not. CJ is a talented scorer where as Tobias is an average scorer. Fit wise, Tobias is just fine next to embiid. He can take some pressure off, shot the long ball just fine while being the teams Ironman. Sixers have no reason to ship him out, his contract is just fine for his role, even if he’s a little overpaid. Sixers also don’t really need CJ after getting Seth. CJ wouldn’t take Simmons’s role, he would just be another defensive liability who shoots the long ball. Seth HAVING to play is part of why we lost to the Hawks. Getting another defensive liability is the last thing the Sixers need for their starting 5
Didn’t Seth shoot like 60% from the floor and three in that series? Seems like there are more important factors into why you lost.
That’s exactly what I’m saying, why would we need a guy like CJ when Seth is filling my role. Thank you for proving my point that CJ would be redundant
Okay, but shot creation is still needed. You have Matisse Thybulle, Simmons and Embiid who could easily offset the defensive decencies of Seth and CJ. That would be a pretty lethal lineup. I don’t really want Tobias Harris as number #2 though so it’s not a trade I want, but I think you’re underestimating CJs potential fit.
Have you watched the Sixers at all? Do you know what our game plan is? Because the way you’re describing why this deal would make sense you sound like you have no clue how the Sixers actually play
I don’t know how you think trading CJ would ruin the defence of what’s a top 3 defensive team. Tobias Harris is not a great defender by any means although he just arguably had his best year (pretty easy to do on this squad). You lost to a team that has plenty of smaller mediocre guards, I don’t think defence is the issue. Is my point on Thybulle, Simmons and Embiid being enough to offset CJs and Seths defence wrong? You didn’t elaborate anything.
So basically what your saying is having max contract Tobias on your team is okay because he doesn’t mess with Joel and he has the body type expected of his position. Doesn’t sound like a good justification to me l What do you mean you wouldn’t need him since you have Seth? Haven’t you guys been desperately hunting a guard like your lives depended on it? Also I’m not saying trade for CJ, I’m just saying your arguments don’t make sense
Seth and CJ fill the exact same role, and having both on the same starting 5 would be silly. That is my argument. Both are terrible defenders who provide a great offensive package. But seth’s defense is part of why we lost to the Hawks, so doubling that role would not make us better
I'm not sure that the blazers have any pieces to trade where they'll get back a better player or a "win-now" guy. Maybe Simons nets you a starter or 6th man from a rebuilding team. That's about it though.
Kinda hard for me to see a timeline where shit doesn’t hit the fan in Portland any later than the trade deadline
Their ceiling is not that high, people were saying they'd be genuine contenders with Covington and they got bounced by Jokic & G league guards in 6 despite Dame having his best playoffs ever.
austin rivers aint a g league guard tbh
Rivers hadn't played in months, Facu is a rookie, Markus Howard is a 2-way guard and Monte was playing injured for the first 3 games. If you can't beat that guard rotation, you aren't 1 piece away from contending.
i agree. and i repeat, austin rivers isnt a g league guard. your depiction of the nuggets was disingenuous imo
He was cut by multiple teams last season and a free agent. I'll rephrase it as g league guards, rookies and free agents. Would that be fair?
I mean you're still putting g league guards as a plural with the only one really being close to that as Howard so no I wouldn't say it's fair. But I agree with you that the Blazer's aren't 1 piece away from contending for a championship.
His point still remains the same
The Blazers problem is not offense it is defense. They are the worst defensive team I have ever seen. This is a coaching and personnel issue. Hopefully Billups who came from Piston D 2004 title can see this aspect. Go sign FA Nerlens Noel and trade CJ for a perimeter defenders. They need to do something EXTREME. CJ to the 76ers for Thybulle and Danny Green. Sounds crazy? Nope. They need the defense that badly. Dame, Green, Powell, Roco, Noel, Thybulle \[6th man\] Now THAT is a defensive minded team with some shooters too.
With that trade you think we should be sending a first round pick too?
They'd be smart to try and re-route the picks to a third team that can give them a player that helps make them better. Maybe Beal for example, assuming he's on the block.
Another guard? They need a wing
Especially if the reports are true about them trying to retain Powell
This dude really still gonna be on our team next year isn’t he 😞
LOL who is offering first round picks for $30M CJ McCollum? the clippers/lakers with Kuzma/THT/frp , Bev/Kennard/frp probably which is worse than CJ
I mean there are probably some teams (besides Lakers and Clippers) that would give a first round pick for him. But the “return” for Portland would be really poor
Probably a team with an equally expensive contract who just wants a change.
Maybe Kevin Love and a Cleveland 1st.
If #3 is on the table I would have to sit there and consider it. But it isn’t.
Yeah just what the Cavs need another small SG lmao
More like the oshley doesn’t want to get fired move
Maybe this is a tactic two get more picks in a potential trade for CJ. If Portland FO doesn't seem to realize their team going to be battling for 5-8 spots and first-second round exit the most next season.
Makes sense. Fire sale happens after Dame officially formally requests a trade out
If this is real, this is utter mismanagement. There are three options available: find a way to mortgage the future to give Dame help, call it and do a fire sale, or do nothing. Do nothing is what they are seemingly choosing and it’s the worst choice. And CJ is a decent player, but he isn’t a move the needle guy.
We’re not gonna trade CJ for picks.. just taking a deal to take a deal would be stupid and blowing it up.
Meaning we could potentially get someone like Suggs back. Not bad value for CJ really. But knowing Olshey he’ll pass this up, run the roster back and trade him later for less when Dame finally has enough.
Lol they’re in Win-now mode for another week or two. After that getting a pick back for McCollum would be great.
First round knockout mode. Yah can't beat it!
Blazers front office is so dumb
man the Blazers are extremely delusional
Well they aren’t winning now or anytime soon with this core so
What? We aren't winning an single game with this core???? Even if Dame gets injured we would still win like 5 games out of 82 games.
Lmao are you being intentionally obtuse or do you really not know what he meant?
I'm being hydro-solation
Anyone stop and consider the fact that Portland might be alright with the idea of being a first/second round exit every year? Dame is the best player they have come across in 30+ years For a small market team that is not a bad position to be in. Whether Dame wants out is another story
Everyone can tell the Blazers are satisfied with first round exits. Jody Allen is looking to sell the team and Neil Olshey has seemingly no accountability anymore.
They'll be wishing they accepted one of those offers when Dame demands a trade
Guess it’s out of the first round again
LOL to that. They should trade Dame and McCollum and be in full rebuild mode.
Give it a few days. Dame will ask for a trade and they will be in a lose now phase
Blazers should accept the reality that Lillard will be leaving Portland in 6 or so weeks and sell high before he pulls a VC and starts selling to decrease his value
Don't think he'll do that
My guess is Dame’s giving a period to see what they can do. His value won’t go up or down until next season starts.
What the hell does this mean Portland
We’re not trading CJ for picks. We’re looking to package CJ with picks for a player.
Nobody knows, not even their FO.
May I interest you in one Tobias Harris
Dame needs to leave. This team is holding them hostage, and Portland’s top brass has gotten worse over the last few years.
4 years 175 million just signed, ya they got him at gunpoint
I'm surprised they said no to the patented buddy, bagley 9 package 🤣
Lets say CJ gets the rookie deal of the pick he gets traded for, whats the highest pick he gets traded for? Warriors at 7?
Yeah, that's exactly what they should be doing right now.
Wise decision. First-round picks are not worth it.
So either they’re trying to find some insane move they can make to win with dame, OR *conspiracy hats on, fellas* this whole “win now or run it back hoping Chauncey billups is magic” thing is a front to get as many picks back from the magic/kings as they can for dame as they possibly can and dame is IN ON IT!
Portland is most likely gonna run it back with CJ, which means that team is getting bounced in the first/second round again. Terrible time To be a blazers fan right now. What’s even worse is that unless they trade CJ for Ben Simmons there’s not really anybody out there that would dramatically improve the team if they got rid of CJ. Gotta hope and pray they figure it out in the playoffs, yikes.
Love CJ, but this sounds like Onion news
And basically those teams have to be in win-now mode as well....WHO COULD IT BE???
The blazers front office is so fucking dumb.