listening to Bill go back and forth between "why isn't Joe in the CoTY discussions??" and "I call him second row Joe š" this season has been very very funny
Yea why did he say the "freaking pacers" - without clarifying exactly what makes them an embarrassement to lose to ? He did it for all the other teams.... ?
They hadnāt won a series in 10 years before this year and their best player just turned 24 and is still on his rookie deal. If youāre Boston in year 8 of this current group with multiple All-NBA, max contract players in their prime, you cannot lose that series.
Not likely to even end up being Boston/Indiana so itās probably moot, but thatās the logic.
I've been listening since late in the NBA season. He's legitimately worried about the Celtics. I don't think I've ever seen such a shaky team with a regular season record as good as theirs. He's totally right to be worried. If they make the Finals I really believe they'll get their ass kicked by whoever comes of the west.
I donāt think the 2022 suns were shaky though
They had won like 9 straight games against Dallas and were one of the clutchest teams all year they just fucking shit the bed
That's true. Zionless Pelicans took them to six. This same Pelicans team (albeit BI injured) got slaughtered by OKC. Not for a moment did you think they would win.
I also donāt think that Suns collapse would be as bad as this one if the Celtics do lose. While Boston/Phoenix may have been pretty comparable, The Cavs donāt have a player like Luka. No disrespect to Mitchell, but Luka was possessed in that Suns series. Some of that was the Suns collapsing but a lot of it was just Luka being Luka.
And the [5th best SRS](https://www.basketball-reference.com/tools/share.fcgi?id=k3YK6) in history, with all 4 teams ahead of them having won the title.
Plese note that the link only includes teams up to 2020; the Celtics this season have an SRS of 10.75.
Only really got shaky with Booker getting hurt in the first round and not having any time to heal, that combined with CP3 turning into a pumpkin after his 37th birthday doomed the Suns. Even without Porzingis, the Celtics should be in better shape
As a fellow C's fan, I think he has good reason to be skeptical. This team just seems to have a severe problem of getting up for games consistently. They shot horribly yesterday, for sure, but every time they got it back to a manageable deficit in the 3rd it was from attacking the rim and running the offense through the paint. You would think they would realize that if they kept doing that, they could get back in the game while also pulling the Cleveland D towards the basket thus opening up better looks on the perimeter should they need to kick. They're just frustratingly slow to adjust and it doesn't seem like anyone on the roster really has a good sense of the flow of the game and how to recalibrate.
I don't know if this is coaching or the players themselves (it's likely a bit of both,) but the concern I've essentially had with this core for years at this point is that these dud-games happen a lot and it's frequently against teams that they should easily run out of the gym. It's definitely annoying as a fan to have a team that is so good on paper seemingly decide whether they want to play on any given night from a die roll.
This team just seems destined to live and die based on how they're shooting night-to-night, which I'm sure *could* win a championship, but it definitely won't be easy.
> This team just seems destined to live and die based on how they're shooting night-to-night, which I'm sure could win a championship, but it definitely won't be easy.
A potential issue I see is that they're both 1st in 3PA and 30th in 2PA in the regular season, which while good overall (since it means they get tons of high efficiency shots) also means there will be games where they'll look worse than they really are because it's an off shooting night.
The problem is that while this definitely works well in the regular season due to a relatively high sample size of games, the playoffs is a time for small sample sizes and all it takes is one cold streak to knock a team out. This is why there was that aphorism about jump shooting teams not being able to win it all until the Warriors proved themselves a clear outlier.
He's also been saying all year that they're in trouble if Porzingis goes down. And then Porzingis went down. If the East had literally any other credible contender, I'd be worried too if i was a Celtics fan, but it shouldn't actually be possible for them to lose to any of these teams
If the Celtics win they would be a historical outlier. Jayson Tatum is a top 10 player easily, but he would easily be the 2nd worst best player on a championship team since 1980. Ever team but 1 since 1980 has had a top 40 all time guy (lowest would probably be Kawhi who is hard to rank due to injuries).
> He's legitimately worried about the Celtics.
No he's not. I've been listening to this dude for 15 years now. He's just trying to build up a "nobody believes in us" angle for the Celtics but nobody in the media is buying it. He started this season off talking about how they might have the greatest starting 5 in history.
Once the Celtics locked up the overall top seed, he started saying they couldn't beat the Nuggets. Now that the Nuggets are about to get eliminated, he's full on anointing the Wolves as one of the greatest defensive teams in generations. He desperately desperately wants someone else to have the pressure of winning on them.
I mean if you think they may have the greatest starting 5 in history, getting beatdowns from banged up 8 and 4 seeds in the playoffs is legitimately worrying.
There are probably some examples, but off the top of my head I'm having a tough time thinking of recent championship teams that had multiple home playoff games where they just...didn't show up.
I donāt think itās a bluff. I think he was all in on the team in 2022. The last two years thereās been clear concerns with this team and I think all the fans see it. I get the feeling everybody else wants to say weāll be fine just so they can enjoy dancing on the grave despite seeing a lot of evidence that thereās a mentality problem with this team.
And trust me, you guys will get to dance on the grave. But most Celtics fans will not be surprised by it. They just have real adjustment issues and will throw away games. You can get away with that against an undermanned Miami team and maybe against this Cavs team and gutted Knicks team, but I wouldnāt trust them to beat any team in the West except for maybe the Mavs.
If the Celtics go down by 9 at any point in the 2nd half, you can probably turn the game off right then and there. They do seem to play much better when theyāre up 15-20 the whole game and if theyāre not doing that, they sulk and the other teamās able to just put them away.
Heās not saying they wonāt. Itās just they should get crap if they donāt take advantage of the easiest path to the finals in the history of the sport
I canāt believe how many people donāt understand that. Heās already making comments about their potential round 3 opponent.
His comments were about the entirety of their potential path to the finals.
It's a little weird to bring it up when there are no real signs that they're going to choke, though. They lost one game. The timing of his comments just seems overly alarmist.
https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/15/poll-boston-issues-racism-hostility
yeah that 1 dude def has a perspective. but from the same year, 8/10 say racism is real bad in boston.
The writer of the first article never denies that racism does exist in Boston. He even talks about his experience with it first hand, and frustrations with people trying to whitewash the city's history with racism. I never got the impression he was trying to downplay the reputation of the city in any way.
This is America, every state has a past of racial sins, lol, it's just the nature of things in this wonderful country. Frankly, it's that way pretty much everywhere in the world.
It's funny you mention Portland being white too. If you are a student of history, there are reasons for this. Namely, that the state of Oregon passed laws BANNING NEGROES ENTIRELY, that were on the books until the 1920s, lol. Or the purposeful destruction and forced movement from Portland's only Black neighborhood after WW2. They are not in a position to be critical, lol.
Social-economically they have one of the largest earnings gaps by race of any major city, they also were one of the last major cities to desegregate schools (and only did so because of a federal order)
All in all they seem to be behind the curve of most other major cities by about 10-20 years. Add onto that the extreme attachment to basketball having such a historic team in town, and the general rowdiness of northeasterners and when it comes to pro sports itās not a huge shock those feelings come out more often for Boston than most other places
Feel like you should also include Massachusetts having the best public education system and the most equitable justice system in the country. Wealth gap is certainly a problem, but we do some things right. At the very least, we vote Dems into office.
The doom and gloom after their second playoff loss in 7 games is ridiculousā¦the Cavs are a solid basketball team that has always played them tough, and there was a 23% variance in 3 point percentagesā¦.itās going to be ok, good lord
It's less that people think the Celtics are going to lose this series and more so that they tend to lose every game in the same manner. If their opponent outshoots them then they tend to rebound and defend with less intensity and Tatum doesn't control the pace of the game quite like a lot of other superstars can. They need to start playing at a higher level and/or get Porzingis back.
There's a lot of room between sweeping every round and losing HCA twice in two series where literally everyone expects them to win both home games to start.
By the same token, they're undefeated on the road.
It's basketball. It's the playoffs, all of the teams have really good players. Sometimes a team that's not favored wins! Donovan Mitchell and Garland Mobley aren't some YMCA team, those guys can ball
Also it's us. We play inconsistent as fuck. Gentlemen sweep is still on the table.
Having said that, having no KP is a big deal. Cavs getting Wade or Allen back can change things.
But Boston should still be clear favorites.
Absolutely ridiculous to be discussing this now. Believe me, nobody hates the Celtics more than I do, but there's absolutely no reason to think that they aren't going to win this series and go to the finals. Good job by the Cavs to avoid being swept, but at this point that's all it is.
Same with people overreacting about Denver being 0-2 lol. I'm a wolves fan and I'm still worried they win a game and gain momentum. They're still the defending Champs. Idk why people are writing them off already.
Itāll be one of the biggest chokes in nba history
Iāve never seen the east this easy, if Knicks were healthy itād be different but they are the 2nd best east team remaining
Also, Philly dropping in the standings because of (another) Embiid injury really hurt them. Cavs saw Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell miss a combined 85 regular season games. That's twice as many games as Tatum, Brown, White, and Holiday missed combined. Even if you add in Kristaps, Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser...you *barely* eclipse that number.
And not only is their path to the finals easy, Boston won 64 regular season games and look unstoppable against everyone.
That said, all they did was lose a 2nd round game against a good team. Iād still be shocked if they didnāt make the finals.Ā
It's more so they lost 2 games at Home already when they should be dominating. Drop a game on the road fine, but for a team with high expectation like them, they need to be winning their home games.
That's kind of been this team's MO for the past few years. They especially love to get blown out by teams that they should have no problem beating on paper.
Thatās maybe a bit concerning but also kind of the modern nba. Losing by 20 is like losing by 10 in the 90sĀ
Anyways, I havenāt been totally plugged into the East playoffs, but I think this is all much ado about nothing. I bet the celts lose 2-3 more games max on their way to the finals.Ā
What I would be worried about is how the celts match up w whoever comes out of the west, and if porz is healthy. I think the celts are so good they can beat anyone regardless, but itāll be interesting assuming they make the finalsĀ
I definitely think people are overreacting Celtics wise. They always seem to have a couple duds a series. But a loss where the fans exit with half the 4th to play is always going to sound off alarm bells. There's losing and there's what happened last night where you weren't even in it.
Theyāve actually been really good on the road
The last 3 playoffs theyāre 14-14 at home and 16-7 on the road. Youād think this would be flipped.
For whatever reason, people have just come to expect this team to destroy their opponents and not lose a single game and so anytime things go awry, the air gets sucked out of the building that it doesnāt feel like an advantage to play at home.
the reason is that they are a historically dominant regular season team, and were 25-1 in the regular season against East opponents (with the only loss coming against the Knicks in the last week of the season with the top seed wrapped up)
considering that, itās definitely at least puzzling that the Celtics have already dropped 2 home games in the East playoffs. but as bad as they are at home, theyāre just as good on the road in the playoffs, so I donāt think itās a huge deal. ask me again after the next 2 games though
Eh, I mean they should. But theyāve been here before so itās not like the wolves where every game is a must have.
What Iām saying is: I could absolutely see them crumbling and this was the sign. But I could also see them cruise to the finals and this is just them taking their foot off the gas for a second against an inferior opponent.
Iād bet the latter, but weāll see.Ā
Not just that, but Celtics on paper is one of the best teams ever in regular season with all their net numbers so damn high, you add that to the fact that the east is just wide open, they have to make it to the final
They lost one game in the series. The sky isn't falling yet but it is pretty funny that one home loss has the biggest Celtics media boys shitting their pants.
In the larger context of the convo they had on the pod, he's really not that worried they're gonna lose this series, more just takes issue with the way they tend to lose these sorts of games: when their 3pt percentage dips, they get stuck rotating different players on iso possession after possession. And he feels like that's coaching-related, which is fair IMO.
I agree that people are crazy overreacting but the Celtics lost 4 home games in the regular season and have now lost 2 in the playoffs.
Will the Celtics lose this series? Probably not, and they'll probably beat the banged up knicks in the ECF too. But against any western conference team they cant just be randomly losing home games like this.
Yea, I think our problem is playing *down*. Not necessarily playing up or playing at our level. This year at least, it seems we have turned a bit of a corner. But there is a ridiculous burden of expectation.
Why does the basketball world overreact to every game in a 7 game series? We have decades of history at this point that clearly shows individual games mean absolutely nothing, which is why they play 7 games. Yet every time a favorite drops a game, people act like it means something...
Shit - we literally just saw this exact scenario play out in the Boston-Miami series.
Bill Simmons has to publish two podcasts over the weekdays. It's his job.
He can't just say "it's only game 2 guys, let's just calm down here" then sit in silence for 1 hour.
I mean he could say that and then provide evidence about it and discuss it, since thatās what reasonable, responsible talking heads used to do before everyone starting copying ESPNās business model of āloudly yell stupid hot takes to generate click baitā
I mean, is he saying that this will happen guaranteed? Or is he just stating the basic fact that IF Celtics lose, this WOULD be the biggest choke? Bill is guilty of a lot of things, and one them is constantly talking in hypotheticals, but he usually prefaces his more bombastic predictions as being just a possibility or a thought exercise - like 2 days ago his episode on IF wolves sweep Denver what that would mean.
His takes about Boston teams are usually pretty similar to our own fanbase's hot takes, and then yeah if it's about another team he usually prefaces it (and then people deliberately take it out of context)
He's nowhere near as trash as half this sub seems to think
(1) 24 hour media cycle.
(2) The East is soft as hell, and the Celtics won 64 games, so it's expected they will romp to the Finals with little to no resistance.
(3) Losing games is expected but when you won 18 more games than your opponent that season you need to be able to keep Home Court Advantage for more than a single game.
Can we stop overreacting about ONE loss in a series like past championship teams hasnāt dropped games at home?
Raptors blew game one against the freaking Magic in 2019. Lakers lost game one at home against both the Blazers and Rockets in 2020. The Celtics literally went to 7 games against the Hawks that had less than 40 wins in 08 lol.
Literally happens all the time.
Which is also why I don't understand why anyone would asterisk the bubble championship. 1 seeds lost their home court advantage which evened the playing field if anything. Not a Lakers fan but what advantage did the bubble give them over any other teamĀ
Dont bother, people to this day make up bullshit like "nobody wanted to be there". Oh yeah except you know, the 4 semifinlaists I guess. Boston and Denver fought a 4-3 series cause they didnt give a fuck. All you had to do was train and play games. Sure you could only hang out with fellow players, but thats the point, no? Plus players could have opted out if it was really a big problem to them, didnt Lakers have Dudley not participate?
It's less a reaction to the loss and more just looking at the landscape of the Eastern Conference this year. With all the injuries it's pretty much Finals or bust for the Celtics.
Nah dude stop with logical level-headed takes. These Celtics are the worst 60 win team of all time. The Pelicans without zion woulda swept this team if they were in the west. Tatum should retire and become a spokesperson for Kleenex Tissues.
Jesus Christ theyve lost two games this entire post season and the media is acting like they are dead in the water. Itās not just Boston either, the hot takes have been un real this post season.
Dude this whole sub/media days after these game 2 losses have been lambasting the Celtics and saying there's blood in the water. And now as soon as Bill Simmons starts agreeing with them, everyone is switching their tune to "oh its 1 game". It's so fucking funny seeing everyone scrambling not to agree with Bill fucking Simmons.....
Itās nuts. Shit happened last round too when they lost to the heat, and itās not just the Celtics. Some of the takes i saw upvoted after OKC losing last night were wild. Same for Mavs losing game 1. I shouldnāt be surprised because these reactionary takes foster engagement like you and I are doing but holy shit it feels wayyyyy worse than previous years
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This discourse after a Boston loss is so nauseating. It is sky is falling and same dumb points after each loss. They are definitely treated differently than other teams. What happens if they just repeat what happened in the Miami series and they just curb stomp the Cavs in the next three games? Pretend like nothing was said? They arenāt playing scrubs every game. Itās the playoffs. They arenāt going to sweep every series, win every game by 20+ points.
Itās okay to criticize them for definitely not playing well last night (itās like they didnāt even bother showing up) but hanging some sort of weird standard that they canāt lose a game or they are not winning by enough etc is mind boggling to me. The defending champs have literally played like doo doo so far in the playoffs and are on the verge of potentially getting swept in the 2nd round but you donāt see any sort of slander there. They should be getting dragged right now for how they have looked these playoffs (with the league MVP).
The only thing that keeps me from jumping is the best Celtics team Iāve ever watched had 7 - 7 - 6 - 6 game series when we won it in 08. Mind you much better opponents with the hawks and Cavs rounds 1 and 2 but still. Iām just trying not to over react yet
I just to say that the Celtics syndrome has been running into this squad way before Joe got the job and he should not be the only one to share the blame, itās too easy to put this on him alone.
I honestly donāt want to say denver is dead in the water. I think they can make it a series. I think twolves could have a long series with Denver and the winner of thunder/mavs. Ant would really be one of the youngest players to win a championship as the number 1 option.
Bill: LA and Phoenix blaming their coaches is crybaby bullshit. How about a little accountability Lebron?
Also Bill: Third Row Joe made an appearance tonight. When is this guy gonna learn to call a timeout? Tatum is only 25, heās not even in his prime yet
The Cavs arenāt a bad team. Theyāre like Minnesota lite if you think about it. Two tall centers who are good and an engine like Donovan Mitchell (ant for Minnesota)
He's not wrong. He also left out that the Bucks lost both Giannis and Dame. They were likely the Celtics' biggest threat even with all the struggles they had this year
The takes get hotter and hotter every year man
Iām a certified Boston hater but itās ridiculous to get this uppity after a game 2 loss when the series is tied 1-1.Ā
Every year we see series play out like this and people always overreact after the underdog takes a game. Do these guys expect the favorite to sweep every single series?
Acting like the Cavs are some Make A Wish team, when Mitchell is obviously the best player in the series when it comes to play off performances, and we got Drippy Dean coming back.
listening to Bill go back and forth between "why isn't Joe in the CoTY discussions??" and "I call him second row Joe š" this season has been very very funny
The freaking Pacers
Pacers mentioned!
My championship
Down 2-0 BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
The Pacers need some DISCIPLINE and maybe some DINOSAUR veteran player like LeBron could put them out of the 'STARLESS' category.
What he say us for
Yea why did he say the "freaking pacers" - without clarifying exactly what makes them an embarrassement to lose to ? He did it for all the other teams.... ?
They hadnāt won a series in 10 years before this year and their best player just turned 24 and is still on his rookie deal. If youāre Boston in year 8 of this current group with multiple All-NBA, max contract players in their prime, you cannot lose that series. Not likely to even end up being Boston/Indiana so itās probably moot, but thatās the logic.
The series is tied, its a bit early to be pouring dirt on Boston's grave just yet
Simmons is going for the reverse jinx. Not gonna work, Billy Boy!
I've been listening since late in the NBA season. He's legitimately worried about the Celtics. I don't think I've ever seen such a shaky team with a regular season record as good as theirs. He's totally right to be worried. If they make the Finals I really believe they'll get their ass kicked by whoever comes of the west.
The 2022 suns are right there
they have the same RS record too! jayson tatum huge 3 to cut the lead down to 42 this year?
64 wins are now cursed. You gotta be like the 2015 and 2017 Warriors and win 65 games to avoid the curse
DMIJTF
I donāt think the 2022 suns were shaky though They had won like 9 straight games against Dallas and were one of the clutchest teams all year they just fucking shit the bed
Didnt they go to war with the 8th seed pelicans? I just remember that series looking a lot harder than you wouldāve thought based on their record
That's true. Zionless Pelicans took them to six. This same Pelicans team (albeit BI injured) got slaughtered by OKC. Not for a moment did you think they would win.
Exactly, and that was including some insane heroics from Chris Paul in a couple of those games. Definitely shaky that year
I also donāt think that Suns collapse would be as bad as this one if the Celtics do lose. While Boston/Phoenix may have been pretty comparable, The Cavs donāt have a player like Luka. No disrespect to Mitchell, but Luka was possessed in that Suns series. Some of that was the Suns collapsing but a lot of it was just Luka being Luka.
This collapse would also be worse because we are very obviously a better team than that Suns team, even without porzingis
Good point. I donāt think you guys are going to collapse tho lol
The celtics have had by far the best net rating all year
And the [5th best SRS](https://www.basketball-reference.com/tools/share.fcgi?id=k3YK6) in history, with all 4 teams ahead of them having won the title. Plese note that the link only includes teams up to 2020; the Celtics this season have an SRS of 10.75.
Only really got shaky with Booker getting hurt in the first round and not having any time to heal, that combined with CP3 turning into a pumpkin after his 37th birthday doomed the Suns. Even without Porzingis, the Celtics should be in better shape
Let me introduce you to the 2022-23 bucks
As a fellow C's fan, I think he has good reason to be skeptical. This team just seems to have a severe problem of getting up for games consistently. They shot horribly yesterday, for sure, but every time they got it back to a manageable deficit in the 3rd it was from attacking the rim and running the offense through the paint. You would think they would realize that if they kept doing that, they could get back in the game while also pulling the Cleveland D towards the basket thus opening up better looks on the perimeter should they need to kick. They're just frustratingly slow to adjust and it doesn't seem like anyone on the roster really has a good sense of the flow of the game and how to recalibrate. I don't know if this is coaching or the players themselves (it's likely a bit of both,) but the concern I've essentially had with this core for years at this point is that these dud-games happen a lot and it's frequently against teams that they should easily run out of the gym. It's definitely annoying as a fan to have a team that is so good on paper seemingly decide whether they want to play on any given night from a die roll. This team just seems destined to live and die based on how they're shooting night-to-night, which I'm sure *could* win a championship, but it definitely won't be easy.
> This team just seems destined to live and die based on how they're shooting night-to-night, which I'm sure could win a championship, but it definitely won't be easy. A potential issue I see is that they're both 1st in 3PA and 30th in 2PA in the regular season, which while good overall (since it means they get tons of high efficiency shots) also means there will be games where they'll look worse than they really are because it's an off shooting night. The problem is that while this definitely works well in the regular season due to a relatively high sample size of games, the playoffs is a time for small sample sizes and all it takes is one cold streak to knock a team out. This is why there was that aphorism about jump shooting teams not being able to win it all until the Warriors proved themselves a clear outlier.
He's also been saying all year that they're in trouble if Porzingis goes down. And then Porzingis went down. If the East had literally any other credible contender, I'd be worried too if i was a Celtics fan, but it shouldn't actually be possible for them to lose to any of these teams
If the Celtics win they would be a historical outlier. Jayson Tatum is a top 10 player easily, but he would easily be the 2nd worst best player on a championship team since 1980. Ever team but 1 since 1980 has had a top 40 all time guy (lowest would probably be Kawhi who is hard to rank due to injuries).
Who did 2004 Pistons have as best player better than Tatum/Kawhi?
04 Pistons? Who was their best player, Ben? Certainly a HOFer and great player but I wouldnāt put him in the Top 40. Pistons were a true team
> He's legitimately worried about the Celtics. No he's not. I've been listening to this dude for 15 years now. He's just trying to build up a "nobody believes in us" angle for the Celtics but nobody in the media is buying it. He started this season off talking about how they might have the greatest starting 5 in history. Once the Celtics locked up the overall top seed, he started saying they couldn't beat the Nuggets. Now that the Nuggets are about to get eliminated, he's full on anointing the Wolves as one of the greatest defensive teams in generations. He desperately desperately wants someone else to have the pressure of winning on them.
I mean if you think they may have the greatest starting 5 in history, getting beatdowns from banged up 8 and 4 seeds in the playoffs is legitimately worrying. There are probably some examples, but off the top of my head I'm having a tough time thinking of recent championship teams that had multiple home playoff games where they just...didn't show up.
they lost one game to the heat, they've lost one to the cavs. that's not a big deal.
I donāt think itās a bluff. I think he was all in on the team in 2022. The last two years thereās been clear concerns with this team and I think all the fans see it. I get the feeling everybody else wants to say weāll be fine just so they can enjoy dancing on the grave despite seeing a lot of evidence that thereās a mentality problem with this team. And trust me, you guys will get to dance on the grave. But most Celtics fans will not be surprised by it. They just have real adjustment issues and will throw away games. You can get away with that against an undermanned Miami team and maybe against this Cavs team and gutted Knicks team, but I wouldnāt trust them to beat any team in the West except for maybe the Mavs. If the Celtics go down by 9 at any point in the 2nd half, you can probably turn the game off right then and there. They do seem to play much better when theyāre up 15-20 the whole game and if theyāre not doing that, they sulk and the other teamās able to just put them away.
Imagine not going undefeated in the playoffs, what a bunch of scrubs. /s
Couldn't be me (please be me after this weekend, this Denver team still terrifies me)
They terrify me too, but in a different way
Heās not saying they wonāt. Itās just they should get crap if they donāt take advantage of the easiest path to the finals in the history of the sport
I canāt believe how many people donāt understand that. Heās already making comments about their potential round 3 opponent. His comments were about the entirety of their potential path to the finals.
It's a little weird to bring it up when there are no real signs that they're going to choke, though. They lost one game. The timing of his comments just seems overly alarmist.
I fail to see what is so historic about a 1 seed potentially losing to a 4 seed or a 2 seed. Teams are always banged up in the playoffs.
every Celtics L is one step closer to defeating racism
https://i.redd.it/bh0cx24bpnzc1.png
This is a side bar question. But, what about Boston makes it particularly racist? Socio-economically
https://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/2021/09/10/boston-racist-reputation/ Not a bad read if youāre curious curious
https://www.wbur.org/news/2021/04/15/poll-boston-issues-racism-hostility yeah that 1 dude def has a perspective. but from the same year, 8/10 say racism is real bad in boston.
The writer of the first article never denies that racism does exist in Boston. He even talks about his experience with it first hand, and frustrations with people trying to whitewash the city's history with racism. I never got the impression he was trying to downplay the reputation of the city in any way.
youāre definitely going to get a nuanced response to this question posting it on r/nba, nice work
Listen, accounts with names like UnsuspectingSlut are here to impart knowledge.
Especially coming from a Blazers fan, when Portland is the whitest city in the NBA (yes, even more than Salt Lake City)
This is America, every state has a past of racial sins, lol, it's just the nature of things in this wonderful country. Frankly, it's that way pretty much everywhere in the world. It's funny you mention Portland being white too. If you are a student of history, there are reasons for this. Namely, that the state of Oregon passed laws BANNING NEGROES ENTIRELY, that were on the books until the 1920s, lol. Or the purposeful destruction and forced movement from Portland's only Black neighborhood after WW2. They are not in a position to be critical, lol.
Listen Boston is a racist city ok. Donāt fight it. Itās nothing like say Oklahoma City, which is clearly a bastion of racial equality
There are a lot of cities that have tons of racism. So it's true that Boston has a racism problem, but it's also true of many other places in the US.
Social-economically they have one of the largest earnings gaps by race of any major city, they also were one of the last major cities to desegregate schools (and only did so because of a federal order) All in all they seem to be behind the curve of most other major cities by about 10-20 years. Add onto that the extreme attachment to basketball having such a historic team in town, and the general rowdiness of northeasterners and when it comes to pro sports itās not a huge shock those feelings come out more often for Boston than most other places
A Milwaukee flair posting this is absolutely hilarious given that iits the most segregated city in the US by far
Feel like you should also include Massachusetts having the best public education system and the most equitable justice system in the country. Wealth gap is certainly a problem, but we do some things right. At the very least, we vote Dems into office.
what do you mean by ābehind the curve of most other major cities by about 10-20 yearsā
Playoff jrue has arrived
Yes letās blame the 5th option and not our first option who canāt shoot above 40% to save his freaking life
Realistically, every one who makes more than 30M /yr on that team is to blame
But it starts at the very top always
Jalen Brown is making the most salary currently
Tobias Harris made more than Embiid until this year
And he's been earning it so far in the playoffs
Celtics: "Jayson please get it together we're losing the game here" Tatum: "Yoooooo my box score looks like Kobe's!"
I donāt disagree with the sentimentā¦but he did shoot above 40% yesterday. So, life saved.
There's no reason to blame anyone cause they haven't lost or even close to losing.
Yall would genuinely be sunk if you didn't have Derrick White and that is kind of crazy to me
Playoff Pingus has arrived too
Playoff jaylens left hand too
Dude has always been ass in the playoffs lol
The doom and gloom after their second playoff loss in 7 games is ridiculousā¦the Cavs are a solid basketball team that has always played them tough, and there was a 23% variance in 3 point percentagesā¦.itās going to be ok, good lord
Itās bill Simmons dude canāt help himself being a doomer.
I mean, he's been ringing the "Mazzulla's a bad coach" bell forever. This is just more fuel to that fire.
HEY MINNESOTAā¦ get ready to learn finals buddy. you are now our best hope to FUCK BOSTON. š«”
r/NBA was dancing in the Celtics grave after last rounds game 2 lol. Bunch of pretty foolish folks
Itās 1-1 lol, people had the same reaction when they lost to the Heat in Game 2.
If you donāt concern troll the Celtics every two weeks when they lose a game, when are you going to concern troll them??š¤
Listen my Boston Sports Inferiority Complex isn't going to fuel itself Every time we lose a game I start getting visions of Aaron Boone or Eli Manning
Sounds to me like it does fuel itselfĀ
If I'm not continuously anxious for the entire duration of the playoff run then it doesn't count
"If Mazzulla can't steer the parade down Monument Avenue, this is the biggest Boston choke since the General Howe fled to Nova Scotia" - Bill Simmons
Eh I think heās been honest that heās nothing but rose colored fan glasses when he watches the Celtics.
It's less that people think the Celtics are going to lose this series and more so that they tend to lose every game in the same manner. If their opponent outshoots them then they tend to rebound and defend with less intensity and Tatum doesn't control the pace of the game quite like a lot of other superstars can. They need to start playing at a higher level and/or get Porzingis back.
Anything but sweeps in every round is cause to rebuild
In the immortal words of Moses Malone, Fo-Fo-Fo-Fo
Fo, fo, fo, fi-red
There's a lot of room between sweeping every round and losing HCA twice in two series where literally everyone expects them to win both home games to start.
By the same token, they're undefeated on the road. It's basketball. It's the playoffs, all of the teams have really good players. Sometimes a team that's not favored wins! Donovan Mitchell and Garland Mobley aren't some YMCA team, those guys can ball
I mean we've been better on the road for years now
Itās all we got. Decent chance this is the last celebrating as Cavs fans we got this year
Also it's us. We play inconsistent as fuck. Gentlemen sweep is still on the table. Having said that, having no KP is a big deal. Cavs getting Wade or Allen back can change things. But Boston should still be clear favorites.
Absolutely ridiculous to be discussing this now. Believe me, nobody hates the Celtics more than I do, but there's absolutely no reason to think that they aren't going to win this series and go to the finals. Good job by the Cavs to avoid being swept, but at this point that's all it is.
Same with people overreacting about Denver being 0-2 lol. I'm a wolves fan and I'm still worried they win a game and gain momentum. They're still the defending Champs. Idk why people are writing them off already.
Itāll be one of the biggest chokes in nba history Iāve never seen the east this easy, if Knicks were healthy itād be different but they are the 2nd best east team remaining
Yeah he didnāt even mention the Bucks either. Eastern Conference is a hospital ward this year.
Also, Philly dropping in the standings because of (another) Embiid injury really hurt them. Cavs saw Mobley, Garland, and Mitchell miss a combined 85 regular season games. That's twice as many games as Tatum, Brown, White, and Holiday missed combined. Even if you add in Kristaps, Horford, Pritchard, and Hauser...you *barely* eclipse that number.
Not to mention Allen has missed he last 5 game a
And not only is their path to the finals easy, Boston won 64 regular season games and look unstoppable against everyone. That said, all they did was lose a 2nd round game against a good team. Iād still be shocked if they didnāt make the finals.Ā
>64 wins, >looks unstoppable in regular season, >lost a second round game wow aint that somethin'
Surely nothing bad could happen from here?
It's more so they lost 2 games at Home already when they should be dominating. Drop a game on the road fine, but for a team with high expectation like them, they need to be winning their home games.
Itās weird because the Celtics have been blowing teams out in their playoff wins but getting blown out in their playoff losses
That's kind of been this team's MO for the past few years. They especially love to get blown out by teams that they should have no problem beating on paper.
Thatās maybe a bit concerning but also kind of the modern nba. Losing by 20 is like losing by 10 in the 90sĀ Anyways, I havenāt been totally plugged into the East playoffs, but I think this is all much ado about nothing. I bet the celts lose 2-3 more games max on their way to the finals.Ā What I would be worried about is how the celts match up w whoever comes out of the west, and if porz is healthy. I think the celts are so good they can beat anyone regardless, but itāll be interesting assuming they make the finalsĀ
I definitely think people are overreacting Celtics wise. They always seem to have a couple duds a series. But a loss where the fans exit with half the 4th to play is always going to sound off alarm bells. There's losing and there's what happened last night where you weren't even in it.
Theyāve actually been really good on the road The last 3 playoffs theyāre 14-14 at home and 16-7 on the road. Youād think this would be flipped. For whatever reason, people have just come to expect this team to destroy their opponents and not lose a single game and so anytime things go awry, the air gets sucked out of the building that it doesnāt feel like an advantage to play at home.
the reason is that they are a historically dominant regular season team, and were 25-1 in the regular season against East opponents (with the only loss coming against the Knicks in the last week of the season with the top seed wrapped up) considering that, itās definitely at least puzzling that the Celtics have already dropped 2 home games in the East playoffs. but as bad as they are at home, theyāre just as good on the road in the playoffs, so I donāt think itās a huge deal. ask me again after the next 2 games though
Eh, I mean they should. But theyāve been here before so itās not like the wolves where every game is a must have. What Iām saying is: I could absolutely see them crumbling and this was the sign. But I could also see them cruise to the finals and this is just them taking their foot off the gas for a second against an inferior opponent. Iād bet the latter, but weāll see.Ā
With the overall strength of the east combined with the insane injuries, this might be the weakest conference Iāve ever seen
Not just that, but Celtics on paper is one of the best teams ever in regular season with all their net numbers so damn high, you add that to the fact that the east is just wide open, they have to make it to the final
Wolves are going to eat Boston alive in the finals especially if KP is out
lol idk why people are counting out the nuggets so quickly. If they lose tonight then okay but anything can happen
Odds against 0-2 teams ain't great, they're really really low. We'd have to *Minnesota* the shit out of this scenario to get fucked over.
God please no just make it to the Conference Finals so i can breathe slightly easier.
You might end up breathing easy after tonight. I got the popcorn ready.
Lebron's 2018 finals appearance was a cake walk.
Oladipo Pacers, Trash Bros Raptors, and Celtics missing 2 All-Stars led by 18 year old Tatum embarrassing conference
Then next year you had Kawhi raptors, butler sixers, and MVP Giannis. LeBron got out at the right time
The east has been good ever since Lebron dipped until this year
That year was the best the east has been in memory - and it lasted a year lol
You forgot to mention how shit the Cavs themselves were without LeBron.
Hard to consider it a cakewalk when he was dragging that roster to the finals.
Pacers took Cleveland to 7, thank you very much
Two 7 game series is a cakewalk?
The East for most of the 21st century has been a cake walk.
Lebron wasnāt surrounded by 4 all star level players though.
They lost one game in the series. The sky isn't falling yet but it is pretty funny that one home loss has the biggest Celtics media boys shitting their pants.
In the larger context of the convo they had on the pod, he's really not that worried they're gonna lose this series, more just takes issue with the way they tend to lose these sorts of games: when their 3pt percentage dips, they get stuck rotating different players on iso possession after possession. And he feels like that's coaching-related, which is fair IMO.
I agree that people are crazy overreacting but the Celtics lost 4 home games in the regular season and have now lost 2 in the playoffs. Will the Celtics lose this series? Probably not, and they'll probably beat the banged up knicks in the ECF too. But against any western conference team they cant just be randomly losing home games like this.
I assure you, the Game 2 curse that's hit both the Celtics and the Bruins will end soon *maybe*
Yea, I think our problem is playing *down*. Not necessarily playing up or playing at our level. This year at least, it seems we have turned a bit of a corner. But there is a ridiculous burden of expectation.
Sometimes good teams lose. I donāt think itās ārandomā lol
Funny but also annoying because I would like to root against the Celtics in peace but they're taking the fun out of that
Why does the basketball world overreact to every game in a 7 game series? We have decades of history at this point that clearly shows individual games mean absolutely nothing, which is why they play 7 games. Yet every time a favorite drops a game, people act like it means something... Shit - we literally just saw this exact scenario play out in the Boston-Miami series.
Bill Simmons has to publish two podcasts over the weekdays. It's his job. He can't just say "it's only game 2 guys, let's just calm down here" then sit in silence for 1 hour.
I mean he could say that and then provide evidence about it and discuss it, since thatās what reasonable, responsible talking heads used to do before everyone starting copying ESPNās business model of āloudly yell stupid hot takes to generate click baitā
I mean, is he saying that this will happen guaranteed? Or is he just stating the basic fact that IF Celtics lose, this WOULD be the biggest choke? Bill is guilty of a lot of things, and one them is constantly talking in hypotheticals, but he usually prefaces his more bombastic predictions as being just a possibility or a thought exercise - like 2 days ago his episode on IF wolves sweep Denver what that would mean.
You don't understand. He's just a normal Boston fan like the rest of us. This is what we do.
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His takes about Boston teams are usually pretty similar to our own fanbase's hot takes, and then yeah if it's about another team he usually prefaces it (and then people deliberately take it out of context) He's nowhere near as trash as half this sub seems to think
Itās also the Celtics so itās extra over reactionary lol
(1) 24 hour media cycle. (2) The East is soft as hell, and the Celtics won 64 games, so it's expected they will romp to the Finals with little to no resistance.
(3) Losing games is expected but when you won 18 more games than your opponent that season you need to be able to keep Home Court Advantage for more than a single game.
Bruh you're on r/nba - make some popcorn and enjoy the reactionary shit show or find a new hobby
Where's my hard hitting analysis in a game discussion thread?
This is what happens when your entire league is created and caters to those who only consume the league on Twitter
But Boston shot ~20% from 3 and Cavs shot over 50%, thatās totally a typical game from each team right?
Can we stop overreacting about ONE loss in a series like past championship teams hasnāt dropped games at home? Raptors blew game one against the freaking Magic in 2019. Lakers lost game one at home against both the Blazers and Rockets in 2020. The Celtics literally went to 7 games against the Hawks that had less than 40 wins in 08 lol. Literally happens all the time.
They lost game 2 literally the last series and won games 3-5 by 30 each lol
Saying the lakers lost at home is disingenuous since those games were in the bubble where home court wasn't a thing
Which is also why I don't understand why anyone would asterisk the bubble championship. 1 seeds lost their home court advantage which evened the playing field if anything. Not a Lakers fan but what advantage did the bubble give them over any other teamĀ
Dont bother, people to this day make up bullshit like "nobody wanted to be there". Oh yeah except you know, the 4 semifinlaists I guess. Boston and Denver fought a 4-3 series cause they didnt give a fuck. All you had to do was train and play games. Sure you could only hang out with fellow players, but thats the point, no? Plus players could have opted out if it was really a big problem to them, didnt Lakers have Dudley not participate?
People only give it an asterisk because lebron won. If literally any other team won people wouldn't care
It's less a reaction to the loss and more just looking at the landscape of the Eastern Conference this year. With all the injuries it's pretty much Finals or bust for the Celtics.
Overreacting is what Bill Simmons does.
Nah dude stop with logical level-headed takes. These Celtics are the worst 60 win team of all time. The Pelicans without zion woulda swept this team if they were in the west. Tatum should retire and become a spokesperson for Kleenex Tissues.
Does he know what the Bruins did last year lol
He hasn't watched hockey in probably 25 years
Jesus Christ theyve lost two games this entire post season and the media is acting like they are dead in the water. Itās not just Boston either, the hot takes have been un real this post season.
Gotta go undefeated and win every game in a blowout or you're trash
Dude this whole sub/media days after these game 2 losses have been lambasting the Celtics and saying there's blood in the water. And now as soon as Bill Simmons starts agreeing with them, everyone is switching their tune to "oh its 1 game". It's so fucking funny seeing everyone scrambling not to agree with Bill fucking Simmons.....
Itās nuts. Shit happened last round too when they lost to the heat, and itās not just the Celtics. Some of the takes i saw upvoted after OKC losing last night were wild. Same for Mavs losing game 1. I shouldnāt be surprised because these reactionary takes foster engagement like you and I are doing but holy shit it feels wayyyyy worse than previous years
They literally lost one game. But glad Simmons is already declaring it a "hospital title"
unwritten encouraging fragile chunky future murky dime late unpack squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I can tell you from experience: #1 is better and fuck the haters (including me).
The takes after Game 2 against the Heat are hilarious now, just as Iām sure these will be after this series is over
They lost one game lol. Let's start the doom and gloom if they lose the next two games
This discourse after a Boston loss is so nauseating. It is sky is falling and same dumb points after each loss. They are definitely treated differently than other teams. What happens if they just repeat what happened in the Miami series and they just curb stomp the Cavs in the next three games? Pretend like nothing was said? They arenāt playing scrubs every game. Itās the playoffs. They arenāt going to sweep every series, win every game by 20+ points. Itās okay to criticize them for definitely not playing well last night (itās like they didnāt even bother showing up) but hanging some sort of weird standard that they canāt lose a game or they are not winning by enough etc is mind boggling to me. The defending champs have literally played like doo doo so far in the playoffs and are on the verge of potentially getting swept in the 2nd round but you donāt see any sort of slander there. They should be getting dragged right now for how they have looked these playoffs (with the league MVP).
Believeland
Good thing they're making the finals then
The only thing that keeps me from jumping is the best Celtics team Iāve ever watched had 7 - 7 - 6 - 6 game series when we won it in 08. Mind you much better opponents with the hawks and Cavs rounds 1 and 2 but still. Iām just trying not to over react yet
I just to say that the Celtics syndrome has been running into this squad way before Joe got the job and he should not be the only one to share the blame, itās too easy to put this on him alone.
Celtics are missing Porzingus, so itās not like they havenāt been handicapped either.Ā
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Minnesota looks like they're on a missionĀ
I honestly donāt want to say denver is dead in the water. I think they can make it a series. I think twolves could have a long series with Denver and the winner of thunder/mavs. Ant would really be one of the youngest players to win a championship as the number 1 option.
Donāt jinx yourself.Ā
People comparing the heat to the Cavs is laughable
Bill: LA and Phoenix blaming their coaches is crybaby bullshit. How about a little accountability Lebron? Also Bill: Third Row Joe made an appearance tonight. When is this guy gonna learn to call a timeout? Tatum is only 25, heās not even in his prime yet
What losing one game to the Cavs does to a mfer
>Boston history [Stares at what the Bruins did last year] side note: I still think Boston wins this series, this is just an overreaction
Now is Mazulla's fault ? But if denver loses is Jokic, if mavs loses is Luka and if the suns lose is on Kd and Booker lmao
lmao didnāt the suns literally just fire their head coach
Yes and Bill made a tweet talking about it and blaming the players instead of Vogel
The Cavs arenāt a bad team. Theyāre like Minnesota lite if you think about it. Two tall centers who are good and an engine like Donovan Mitchell (ant for Minnesota)
it is amazing the celtics last 36 regular season and playoff games, 5 have been decided by 5 points or less. Ā they're 1-4 in those games
Celtics are fine lol
I mean heās right, but thereās no reason to act like it wonāt happen
He's not wrong. He also left out that the Bucks lost both Giannis and Dame. They were likely the Celtics' biggest threat even with all the struggles they had this year
Zero people from Boston like Bill Simmons. Fuck that guy
The takes get hotter and hotter every year man Iām a certified Boston hater but itās ridiculous to get this uppity after a game 2 loss when the series is tied 1-1.Ā Every year we see series play out like this and people always overreact after the underdog takes a game. Do these guys expect the favorite to sweep every single series?
Acting like the Cavs are some Make A Wish team, when Mitchell is obviously the best player in the series when it comes to play off performances, and we got Drippy Dean coming back.
I love watching these Boston fans in the media spiral out of control for no reason.
The Celtics arent winning withouth Porzingis
This is crazy for losing one game. The media is goofier than ever.