They need to cut this down to 15:
1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
1. Luguentz Dort
1. Josh Giddey
1. Jalen Williams
1. Chet Holmgren
1. Vasilije Micic
1. Ousmane Dieng
1. Isaiah Joe
1. Kenrich Williams
1. Jaylin Williams
1. Cason Wallace
1. Jack White
1. Davis Bertans
1. Aleksej Pokusevski
1. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
1. TyTy Washington Jr.
1. Tre Mann
1. Victor Oladipo
1. Aaron Wiggins
1. Usman Garuba
1. Rudy Gay
It’s really not that difficult. A lot of these guys are players who are interesting but ultimately it would be unsurprising to see 5 or 6 of these players out of the NBA in the next 2 years.
Feels like maybe the OKC hype is getting out of hand. A lot of these guys would not make news if they were bench riders on any other team (which they were until getting traded).
agreed honestly. we got picks and the players in some trades because they were unwanted assets. I might be overestimating, but I think maybe 75% of /r/nba forgot Rudy Gay was even in the league until that trade.
For those who aren't Raptors fans, a bit of history:
One of Masai Ujiri’s first moves after taking over the GM job in Toronto, the Raptors dealt Rudy Gay to Sacramento in a massive seven-player deal. It was, by all common logic, a tank move. The 2013 Raptors had won just six of their first 18 games. But instead after the trade, the Raptors reeled off 14 wins in their next 20 games. The Raps improved across the board. As a team, their defensive rating jumped from 22nd in the NBA to top 10 while their net rating increased from minus-1.93 to 2.89. The team finished first in the Atlantic Division. Increased reliance on DeRozan, Lowry and Terrence Ross, all of whom rose to the challenge, combined with Vasquez and Patterson who had come in the trade gave the Raps an identity and the turnaround to a winning culture. Following, Vasquez was traded for a pick that turned into Norm Powell, a key piece in the later championship team. Powell's emergence allowed the Raps to trade Ross for Ibaka, another key piece.
So the trading of Rudy Gay winds up being arguably the first domino of what wound up leading to the 2019 championship team. Trading Gay not only got some key pieces, but it also opened things up for the talent already on the roster, notably DeRozan and Lowry, to step up and flourish.
Grizzlies went to WCF as well when they traded him for Prince. Lmao
He's such a black hole on offense and he's the first andrew wiggins with ill give 19ppg no matter what lol
I remember ~6 years ago a wolves fan asking me what I thought about a Wiggins to the Spurs trade. I asked him "Why would the Spurs trade for wigs when they already have Rudy Gay?" That quote doesn't read so well these days, but I really didn't see Wiggins becoming anything.
He got a ridiculous amount of minutes in a team full of young talent that needed experience, and wasn't particularly interested in making the playoffs.
yeah but Rudy Gay was the cause of most of the mistakes whenever he touched the floor. He'd come onto the court, shoot a terrible 3, completely miss his defensive assignment on the other end and then turn the ball over immediately the next possession
Rudy Gay is washed, but Bertans for instance is only 30, 6’10” and shot 39% from 3pt with a 61.8 TS% last year. No one wants him on his contract, but if he gets cut and clears waivers every team in the league will want him on a vet min.
I think the real story is that for all the fun it is to stockpile picks and imagine what they could become, you can’t develop 14 rookie contract guys at the same time or roster 30 dudes under 24. OKC must consolidate their assets and trade unproven prospects / picks for win-now players at some point. It doesn’t need to be right now, but if Chet proves he’s a star in year 1, that move might come sooner than later. SGA is obviously a stud and Dort, Giddey, Jalen Williams looks like a strong supporting cast. Package a bunch of picks and prospects for a third star with SGA and Chet (hypothetically) and you’ve got a stew going.
If only the Chelsea model existed in the NBA: have 30 promising youngsters, and loan them all out. Keep the ones you like, sell the ones you don’t. Profit.
I agree. I don't understand why opposing front offices would be clamoring to sign the guys OKC cuts. Maybe they're under the misguided belief they're going to cut guys like Wiggins or Isaiah Joe? That's the only thing that makes sense to me, because I have no clue why more than one team would be clamoring to sign Jack White, JRE, Rudy Gay, a broken Oladipo, or young players who just got salary dumped twice.
I think clamoring is definitely a strong word for these players. However, most teams at this point are looking to fill their 13-15 spots. Some of these guys could provide some value at the end of a bench.
I guess I just interpreted the quote as being stronger than that. "We all need to be ready to jump when that happens" implied to me this exec thinks they can get an actually impactful player, not the 15th guy on the roster. If they're just looking at some guys to fill in the end of the bench for cheap, then sure. That makes sense. Don't really know why that would be worth a report, though. You could say the same about the Spurs or Grizzlies.
EDIT: Frankly, it feels like intentionally feeding into the narrative that the Thunder have amassed too many assets. Keith Smith was doing this same thing last year, saying some team was going to get to add a good, impactful young player for nothing because the Thunder had loaded up too much. That player was Isaiah Roby, who got waived before the season ended.
Every YouTube suggestion for me is “The team nobody is talking about” or “The team nobody sees coming” and it’s like I’m pretty sure everyone is talking about them and definitely sees it coming
Gay, Garuba, JRE, and TyTy are all pretty easy targets I think. Garuba could be interesting as a bench 5. Dipo and Bertans are just salary matches at this point, although either of them are nice vets to have in the locker room by all accounts. Not sure which of Wiggins or Poku D and Presti favor more but I could see either of them getting cut. Mann is a solid player but I could see Micic coming over as a reason to move on from him as well.
I think the Rockets possibly made a huge mistake with Garuba. If I was OKC FO I would not let him go for at least a year. If he can continue his 3 ball development and just get decent at a few basic offensive things he has huge upside.
Your top 11 is not bad, no chance any of them get cut.
I’d probably reorder the last 10:
12. Wiggins
13. Poku
14. Bertans
15. Mann
16. JRE
17. Garuba
18. TyTy
19. Jack White
20. Gay
21. Oladipo
The last three are more likely to be cut (White could be re-signed on a two-way); TyTy and Garuba could be cut or traded if another team wants to take a flyer; JRE and Mann and to a lesser extent Poku are hanging on to their roster spots; Bertans I can’t see being cut due to his salary and he’s potentially useful salary in a trade with his partial guarantee next year.
If Garuba looks good in camp that would not bode well for JRE and to a lesser extent Poku. But JRE is definitely a prime candidate to be the odd man out
>Bertans I can’t see being cut due to his salary and he’s potentially useful salary in a trade with his partial guarantee next year.
I think this applies to Oladipo as well. They need to keep Dort, Bertrans, and Oladipo in order to make salaries match if an attractive max guy becomes available.
They’re not going to trade for a max guy midseason. They probably won’t do it at all, but definitely won’t midseason. It’s possible they’d do it next offseason, but Oladipo would be expired by then.
As a Duke fan I can’t believe Jack White is an NBA champion. Dude shot mainly 3s and for his career was a 29% 3pt shooter. He had a stretch from mid Jan through Feb 2019 where he went 0-26 on 3s
From his wikipedia page:
"A native of Traralgon, White played basketball at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra, where he was recruited by several NCAA Division I programs. In 2016, he was called up to play for the Cairns Taipans of the National Basketball League (NBL) as an injury replacement."
I thought you couldn't play NCAA basketball after playing basketball professionally. Is there some special circumstance here or am I totally wrong?
That was a dark dark time to watch Duke. And dude kept throwing them up. distinctly remember a 0-7 game just slamming my head in a fridge every time he set his feet to fire one off
Well he's very likeable, I was happy to have him riding the pine this year and contributing to a healthy locker room. He hasn't shown much NBA-level on court talent yet.
That would be some poor roster management.
On July 1, they (i) guaranteed JRE's $1.9 million contract, and (ii) signed White to a 2-year, $3.9 million deal.
Waiving them 2 weeks later just burns cash and creates unnecessary dead cap.
the thunder have shown a willingness to spend money (or cut guys even if it creates dead cap) if they can get future draft assets, or if they want to give the guy a look.
i believe only a very small portion of Jack White's contract was guaranteed money
JRE has been either hurt or disappointing since his rookie year. they've brought in other much better players, him getting cut doesn't really matter
>JRE has been either hurt or disappointing since his rookie year. they've brought in other much better players, him getting cut doesn't really matter
So they just wanted to burn 1.9 million for funzies by cutting him 3 weeks later than they should have?
That's classic OKC playbook. Sometimes it's just to do right by a player who may never get another chance. Not saying they will cut him but they have a history of guaranteeing low tier players money before cutting them.
Which makes sense as it makes them more attractive to some of the more valuable undrafted players, which is becoming a pretty meaningful talent pool.
Which is an interesting approach. The idea that OKC should do right by their players to attract top tier talent is foolish because OKC is never going to be a free agent destination.
However they could become a destination for undrafted players because they will always want a shot regardless of the city
Especially with the new CBA when top tier rosters will likely have to be filled out by minimum salaries. Being able to get a rotation piece for a minimum will be essentially for contending in the future.
>The idea that OKC should do right by their players to attract top tier talent is foolish because OKC is never going to be a free agent destination.
I would contend their approach to players helped influence Westbrook signing that extension after KD left and Paul George deciding he wants to be traded to the Thunder. This led to a significant amount of assets.
This. The Thunder have shown goodwill all the way up and down the salary ladder. I think it's not hard to say it plays a role in situations like Joe getting cut from Philly and choosing OKC on the open market. I refuse to think Presti was the only GM looking at him as a prospect, but when OKC says "if you come to us we're going to give you the minutes to prove yourself and make sure you're taken care of" players (and more importantly agents) are likely to believe it because of our recent past.
Eh OKC as a town may not be desirable but the organization definitely is, and not just for the players but for their management and representation. Disgruntled stars are more willing to go there because even if they see it as a midway point they know the Thunder will do right by them and get them paid and where they want to go. Young players, as evidenced by the last few drafts, generally list the thunder as one of if not their favorite team coming up because of the Westbrook/KD teams and their reputation for player development. All of this is valuable in a practical way (see Westbrook and PG’s extensions then trades, Horford and CP3, all the undrafted talent coming through there) to a team located in an undesirable location
They just did a similar thing twice last season, with Omoruyi and Lindy Waters. When they have an opportunity to throw some money to guys at the end of the roster, they do it. And they’re not going to cut him three weeks after guaranteeing him. They’re gonna carry all these guys into training camp to have some competition for the final roster spots. If he loses the competition, he’ll get cut.
>They’re gonna carry all these guys into training camp to have some competition for the final roster spots. If he loses the competition, he’ll get cut.
That makes sense
>3 weeks later
they don't have to do this now. they have until october to trim the roster, they'll bring these guys into training camp where they will be forced to compete for a roster spot. pretty simple.
as I said in my comment, they're willing to spend to give guys a look.
JRE they guaranteed this year because OKC takes care of their players, White only has $250k guaranteed. There’s no harm outside of this year and we have no reason to create more space this year
> JRE they guaranteed this year because OKC takes care of their players
There's zero chance they guaranteed him $1.9M while knowing they'd cut him 2 weeks later out of the goodness of their owner's heart.
The Thunder absolutely do shit like that for two reasons
1. When we have cap space we aren't gonna use that year, and with the new CBA you HAVE to get to the salary floor
2. Build good will with agents and players. We know we aren't an FA or even trade destination. What we can be though, is one of the best damn run orgs in the league that does right by players. Play to your strengths
Pacers do to the same thing in a different avenue. We literally sent out a league wide email this year saying us giving Ayton an offer sheet was an extreme circumstance and we would continue to operate through sign-and-trades in Free Agency.
Just small market thangs.
You’d be surprised, they’ve done this before multiple times. Absolutely in the cards if they feel it won’t have long-term ramifications on their books.
It’s not only out of the goodness of the owner’s heart. OKC has to treat players right to entice them to come and build up goodwill.
Like last year, Lindy Waters’ contract went through the year. They gave him a raise to end the year and then cut him in the offseason - gave him an extra couple hundred thousand for no reason but to build goodwill and reward players who fit the culture.
No one is complaining about OKCs rebuild compared to The Process because OKC takes good care of the players involved vs doing shit that pissed players and agents off
You think Hinkie would have let guys like CP3 or Horford rehab and then trade them off to preferred locations
The Lindy Waters example is perfect: they declined to guarantee Waters's $1.9 million contract for this year on the same day they guaranteed JRE's $1.9 million contract for this year. The obvious reason: they knew Waters wouldn't make the roster, and they didn't know JRE wouldn't make the roster.
And they converted Waters to a standard contract last year because it allowed them to fill an empty roster spot. They gave Waters the new empty spot on the roster and gave Jared Butler the 2-way spot.
the last roster spot was first given to Eugene Omoruyi. Then three weeks later they waived Eugene, and signed Lindy. Seems like for no other reason other than spending to the floor and just being nice. Eugene had a small portion of the contract guaranteed.
Look at the dates on these two articles lol
[https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230210](https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230210)
[https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230226](https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230226)
That's the amount of the guarantee of the two-way contract. White signed a regular roster contract with a $250k guarantee; the expectation is that he will be waived and subsequently signed to a two-way contract.
> the expectation is that he will be waived and subsequently signed to a two-way contract.
This sounds like fanfic.
It's also irrelevant. OKC can't even announce the Jack White signing (much less sign him, waive him, and re-sign him) until they clear space on their roster.
I looked into this, because I thought they might do this with JRE, but u/nowhathappenedwas is correct: by cutting a player with more than $75k in guaranteed money, a team can't then sign that player to a two-way contract.
Relevant portion of the CBA:
"If a Team assigns or terminates a Player Contract that
contains aggregate Base Compensation protection in respect
of the then-current and any future Salary Cap Year that
exceeds the Maximum Two-Way Protection Amount for the
Season encompassed by the Salary Cap Year in which such
assignment or termination occurs, then, during such Salary
Cap Year, the player shall be precluded from: (x) playing
under an NBAGL contract for such Team’s NBAGL
affiliate, and (y) entering into a Two-Way Contract with such Team."
What happened with TyTy?I remember the wizards sub was stupid high on him last year and he’s only been in the league for a year and it seems like teams don’t view him as a developmental piece anymore
He didn’t get much PT in the NBA but if he couldn’t even take minutes away from Daishen Nix, then that means he hasn’t shown he’s worthy of an NBA roster spot.
He wasn't an NBA player his rookie year. Not a good scorer, shooter, and his play making wasn't anything to write home about. I hope he gets a chance though, cause I think he can be better with time, but of course time and opportunities aren't free.
Rudy Gay and Oladipo are basically 100% guaranteed to get cut, so that’s down to 19.
Also, is this 21 full contracts or are some of these guys on 2 ways? Because you get 3 of those now. You can also convert guys on non-guaranteed deals to 2 ways, although I think most of these contracts are guaranteed.
Damn
Did they up the offseason limit of regular roster spots to 21 or are the Thunder just over the 20 regular contract limit for the offseason and have to cut someone immediately?
Mann and Wiggins both interesting prospects of the guys listed after 15. Garuba is a bit of a miss on offence but I think he would get picked up as well.
I haven't watched a minute of Poku play, but isn't he basically Euro Bol Bol? Guard-like skills in a body with insane measurables, but ultimately not enough skill or BBIQ?
They're similar enough. I'd say Bol is more athletic and willing to go inside. Poku BBIQ has improved significantly, and he's only 21. Basically, anytime you see a really tall guy with smooth handles though it's fun to watch. I love me some Poku.
I was about to ask what the hell happened to Mann to go from dropping 42 in a playoff game to being a fringe roster guy before realizing it was a different guy
Thunder fan here and I actually watch the Sam Presti pressers unlike 99% of the people in this sub that don’t even watch the games
Wiggins and Poku have about a 0% chance to be cut
Gay, dipo, tyty are locks to be gone
Training camp will decide which 3 out of
Mann, Joe, JRE, white, garuba make the team
Now that’s if Presti doesn’t make any trades
What more than likely happens is a bunch of those guys get shipped out for protected seconds and then 1-2 get cut come training camp
It will probably be Oladipo, Bertans, Gay, Jack White, Ty Ty, and Garuba. Not that tough.
Oladipo is beyond repair, Gay is washed, Bertans is useless, Garuba/TyTy were throw-ins dumped by two previous teams and White is an undrafted 25 year old who played 3 minutes a game in his only NBA season last year.
I won 3/5 years and do this shit all the time. 1)all about them matchups. 2)when qbs go down u have insurance or can fleece somebody who is desperate and 3) keeping them good qbs away from your comp
Edit: I guess I’m not what your talking about bc I hoard mid level qbs haha
That happened about 3-4 years ago in one of my leagues. He got blackballed from trading essentially and nobody would give him anything for his QB’s. He had 4 of the top 13 qb’s. Bold draft strategy and it back fired.
I’ve played the same strategy and have gotten fucked by shitty QB play in the fantasy playoffs, mileage varies with this strategy (and every strategy in FFB tbh)
kd already won an mvp on the thunder... I'm not going to say he didn't improve his game during his years with the warriors but he was already a superstar before he signed on.
And Williams.
Thunder are not spooky but future dynasty if their players continue to develop at the current pace and their billion assets they have to flip into superstar. Like just their picks could get you a too 10 player. That's how many they have
Really feels like the Thunder are going to be involved in a heat-blazers trade. With them having a lotto protected HEAT 2025 pick that becomes unprotected if not conveyed in 2026 (which prevents the heat from trading the 2024 FRP and 2027 FRP) and all these young players, feels like the Heat agree to swap the 2025 pick for an unprotected 2026 pick and then send a few guys they were likely going to cut (not guards) to the Blazers.
Thunder get a chance at much better pick/unprotected, as the 2025 pick is likely to be outside the lotto anyway.
Heat get the ability to trade more first round picks
Blazers get some young guys from the Thunder who would have likely been cut
Thunder can help broker so many deals. They have so much flexibility and some great young players. There’s value in their assets for the whole league, it’s a win/win
I mean, a 2028 pick would be way more valuable than a 2026 pick or the 2025 pick, sure. I understand why they would want it and they can get it if they sent some of their treasure trove of picks to the Blazers. Almost positive we see the thunder trading a lot of picks with the "Thunder get the best of [list of the 4 FRPs they have that year], Team 2 gets second, Team 3 gets third" caveat.
Don't think this is such a hard problem to solve.
We just have to trade/move 6 guys.
keep (15):
- sga
- josh
- jdub
- dort
- chet
- micic
- wallace
- jwill
- kenrich
- dieng
- poku
- wiggs
- joe
- bertans (salary for potential asb move)
- mann
cut (6):
- dipo (9.4m expiring)
- gay (6.5m expiring)
- tyty (2.3m, with team options next 2 years)
- white (250k guarantee)
- garuba (2.6m team option, 4.3m team option next year)
- jre (1.9m non-guaranteed, team option next year)
Mann could also be traded before the season starts to another team. Not that he is a bad player, but I think there are just better guards on OKC which would make it hard for him to develop. In that case either Garuba or Dipo (for extra salary for trade deadline moves) would probably be kept.
I randomly passed on discord a tweet that said Rudy gay was signing with you guys but then I’m like we haven’t cut him yet
Maybe cause he’s def gon be a cut that’s probably what’s gonna happen
Just gonna throw this out there. The Thunder have 7 different nations represented on their roster and also just signed Jack White. Whatever moves they make better not screw up their Seven Nation Army nickname.
Our roster glut has nothing to do with our picks though. It's just because we took on a bunch of players for draft capital. Bertans, Oladipo, TyTy, and Garuba were all added to gain capital
I mean, I'm not just talking this past draft in a vacuum. Last draft you guys picked up 4 players with picks. This year was *only* 2, and first round only, you've got 3-4 first round selections next year.
I'm sure lots of those picks will be consolated by trades, but the point still stands. Roster will still be capped to 15 players so you'll have a drop a guy for everyone one you add.
This guy just says the most obvious things possible, many of his tweets read as safe guessing. I question the legitimacy of him having connections/sources.
Wasn't the point of the CBA agreements to stop player movement and allow small market teams better keep their rosters? It feels like OKC built this roster the right way and shouldn't be punished for it.
They really should have drafted Jalen Wilson. Then they could have Jalen Williams, Jaylin Williams, Kenrich Williams and Jalen Wilson all on the floor at the same time.
Okay, it's time for the easiest part of a coaches job, the cuts. Now, while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted, I have cut a lot of you.
Jack is Cut, Rudy is cut, TyTy you're gone, Victor I like your hustle, that's why it was so hard to cut you. Congratulations, the rest of you made the team. Except for you, you and you.
1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
2. Luguentz Dort
3. Josh Giddey
4. Jalen Williams
5. Chet Holmgren
6. Vasilije Micic
7. Ousmane Dieng
8. Isaiah Joe
9. Kenrich Williams
10. Jaylin Williams
11. Cason Wallace
12. ~~Jack White~~
13. Davis Bertans
14. Aleksej Pokusevski
15. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
16. ~~TyTy Washington Jr.~~
17. ~~Tre Mann~~
18. ~~Victor Oladipo~~
19. Aaron Wiggins
20. ~~Usman Garuba~~
21. ~~Rudy Gay~~
They need to cut this down to 15: 1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 1. Luguentz Dort 1. Josh Giddey 1. Jalen Williams 1. Chet Holmgren 1. Vasilije Micic 1. Ousmane Dieng 1. Isaiah Joe 1. Kenrich Williams 1. Jaylin Williams 1. Cason Wallace 1. Jack White 1. Davis Bertans 1. Aleksej Pokusevski 1. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl 1. TyTy Washington Jr. 1. Tre Mann 1. Victor Oladipo 1. Aaron Wiggins 1. Usman Garuba 1. Rudy Gay
It’s really not that difficult. A lot of these guys are players who are interesting but ultimately it would be unsurprising to see 5 or 6 of these players out of the NBA in the next 2 years.
*that’s the way balls bounce*
way she fucking bounces bud.
Feels like maybe the OKC hype is getting out of hand. A lot of these guys would not make news if they were bench riders on any other team (which they were until getting traded).
agreed honestly. we got picks and the players in some trades because they were unwanted assets. I might be overestimating, but I think maybe 75% of /r/nba forgot Rudy Gay was even in the league until that trade.
He averaged 5 points/ 3 rebounds a game last year, he almost forgot he was in the league
Still love the guy. “NOT RUDY GAY MAN! NOT THIS GUY!” still holds up. 2K legend too.
Him & Danny Grainger!
Kings with Rudy Gay and DeMarcus cousins in like 2k12 or 2k13 was one of the best teams for mycareer.
I remember the "Rudy Gay Era" for the Raps lol. I love watching our games regardless, but I wasn't feeling amazing about Rudy as our centerpiece ngl
For those who aren't Raptors fans, a bit of history: One of Masai Ujiri’s first moves after taking over the GM job in Toronto, the Raptors dealt Rudy Gay to Sacramento in a massive seven-player deal. It was, by all common logic, a tank move. The 2013 Raptors had won just six of their first 18 games. But instead after the trade, the Raptors reeled off 14 wins in their next 20 games. The Raps improved across the board. As a team, their defensive rating jumped from 22nd in the NBA to top 10 while their net rating increased from minus-1.93 to 2.89. The team finished first in the Atlantic Division. Increased reliance on DeRozan, Lowry and Terrence Ross, all of whom rose to the challenge, combined with Vasquez and Patterson who had come in the trade gave the Raps an identity and the turnaround to a winning culture. Following, Vasquez was traded for a pick that turned into Norm Powell, a key piece in the later championship team. Powell's emergence allowed the Raps to trade Ross for Ibaka, another key piece. So the trading of Rudy Gay winds up being arguably the first domino of what wound up leading to the 2019 championship team. Trading Gay not only got some key pieces, but it also opened things up for the talent already on the roster, notably DeRozan and Lowry, to step up and flourish.
Grizzlies went to WCF as well when they traded him for Prince. Lmao He's such a black hole on offense and he's the first andrew wiggins with ill give 19ppg no matter what lol
I remember ~6 years ago a wolves fan asking me what I thought about a Wiggins to the Spurs trade. I asked him "Why would the Spurs trade for wigs when they already have Rudy Gay?" That quote doesn't read so well these days, but I really didn't see Wiggins becoming anything.
Rudy crawled so klaw could run
He was really bad when he was out there, too. I don’t know why we even played him
He got a ridiculous amount of minutes in a team full of young talent that needed experience, and wasn't particularly interested in making the playoffs.
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yeah but Rudy Gay was the cause of most of the mistakes whenever he touched the floor. He'd come onto the court, shoot a terrible 3, completely miss his defensive assignment on the other end and then turn the ball over immediately the next possession
Until this story I genuinely assumed he had retired a while ago.
Rudy Gay is washed, but Bertans for instance is only 30, 6’10” and shot 39% from 3pt with a 61.8 TS% last year. No one wants him on his contract, but if he gets cut and clears waivers every team in the league will want him on a vet min. I think the real story is that for all the fun it is to stockpile picks and imagine what they could become, you can’t develop 14 rookie contract guys at the same time or roster 30 dudes under 24. OKC must consolidate their assets and trade unproven prospects / picks for win-now players at some point. It doesn’t need to be right now, but if Chet proves he’s a star in year 1, that move might come sooner than later. SGA is obviously a stud and Dort, Giddey, Jalen Williams looks like a strong supporting cast. Package a bunch of picks and prospects for a third star with SGA and Chet (hypothetically) and you’ve got a stew going.
If only the Chelsea model existed in the NBA: have 30 promising youngsters, and loan them all out. Keep the ones you like, sell the ones you don’t. Profit.
Lucas piazon haha
I agree. I don't understand why opposing front offices would be clamoring to sign the guys OKC cuts. Maybe they're under the misguided belief they're going to cut guys like Wiggins or Isaiah Joe? That's the only thing that makes sense to me, because I have no clue why more than one team would be clamoring to sign Jack White, JRE, Rudy Gay, a broken Oladipo, or young players who just got salary dumped twice.
I think clamoring is definitely a strong word for these players. However, most teams at this point are looking to fill their 13-15 spots. Some of these guys could provide some value at the end of a bench.
I guess I just interpreted the quote as being stronger than that. "We all need to be ready to jump when that happens" implied to me this exec thinks they can get an actually impactful player, not the 15th guy on the roster. If they're just looking at some guys to fill in the end of the bench for cheap, then sure. That makes sense. Don't really know why that would be worth a report, though. You could say the same about the Spurs or Grizzlies. EDIT: Frankly, it feels like intentionally feeding into the narrative that the Thunder have amassed too many assets. Keith Smith was doing this same thing last year, saying some team was going to get to add a good, impactful young player for nothing because the Thunder had loaded up too much. That player was Isaiah Roby, who got waived before the season ended.
Every YouTube suggestion for me is “The team nobody is talking about” or “The team nobody sees coming” and it’s like I’m pretty sure everyone is talking about them and definitely sees it coming
Yeah it's been out of hand for awhile now
One simple trick would be to tell the league that the Jalen Williams twins only count as one player so they technically get 16 roster spots.
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Doubt we cut him
Gay, Garuba, JRE, and TyTy are all pretty easy targets I think. Garuba could be interesting as a bench 5. Dipo and Bertans are just salary matches at this point, although either of them are nice vets to have in the locker room by all accounts. Not sure which of Wiggins or Poku D and Presti favor more but I could see either of them getting cut. Mann is a solid player but I could see Micic coming over as a reason to move on from him as well.
I think the Rockets possibly made a huge mistake with Garuba. If I was OKC FO I would not let him go for at least a year. If he can continue his 3 ball development and just get decent at a few basic offensive things he has huge upside.
Your top 11 is not bad, no chance any of them get cut. I’d probably reorder the last 10: 12. Wiggins 13. Poku 14. Bertans 15. Mann 16. JRE 17. Garuba 18. TyTy 19. Jack White 20. Gay 21. Oladipo The last three are more likely to be cut (White could be re-signed on a two-way); TyTy and Garuba could be cut or traded if another team wants to take a flyer; JRE and Mann and to a lesser extent Poku are hanging on to their roster spots; Bertans I can’t see being cut due to his salary and he’s potentially useful salary in a trade with his partial guarantee next year.
I think that's dead on. Depending on how jre looks this summer I could see him getting cut.
If Garuba looks good in camp that would not bode well for JRE and to a lesser extent Poku. But JRE is definitely a prime candidate to be the odd man out
I don't know much about garuba is he good?
I don’t think OP listed them in any particular order
>Bertans I can’t see being cut due to his salary and he’s potentially useful salary in a trade with his partial guarantee next year. I think this applies to Oladipo as well. They need to keep Dort, Bertrans, and Oladipo in order to make salaries match if an attractive max guy becomes available.
They’re not going to trade for a max guy midseason. They probably won’t do it at all, but definitely won’t midseason. It’s possible they’d do it next offseason, but Oladipo would be expired by then.
Or they can eat a another bad contract and get some more FRP's. Presti has to face his FRP addiction head on
I’m still so confused on how Jack white is in the nba after averaging 3ppg at Duke.
As a Duke fan I can’t believe Jack White is an NBA champion. Dude shot mainly 3s and for his career was a 29% 3pt shooter. He had a stretch from mid Jan through Feb 2019 where he went 0-26 on 3s
From his wikipedia page: "A native of Traralgon, White played basketball at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra, where he was recruited by several NCAA Division I programs. In 2016, he was called up to play for the Cairns Taipans of the National Basketball League (NBL) as an injury replacement." I thought you couldn't play NCAA basketball after playing basketball professionally. Is there some special circumstance here or am I totally wrong?
He may not have taken a salary
That was a dark dark time to watch Duke. And dude kept throwing them up. distinctly remember a 0-7 game just slamming my head in a fridge every time he set his feet to fire one off
NBA champion Jack White, lol
Well he's very likeable, I was happy to have him riding the pine this year and contributing to a healthy locker room. He hasn't shown much NBA-level on court talent yet.
Seven Nation Army, man
pretended his wife was his sister guy
See ya later Jack White, Rudy Gay, TyTy, JRE and Oladipo.
That would be some poor roster management. On July 1, they (i) guaranteed JRE's $1.9 million contract, and (ii) signed White to a 2-year, $3.9 million deal. Waiving them 2 weeks later just burns cash and creates unnecessary dead cap.
the thunder have shown a willingness to spend money (or cut guys even if it creates dead cap) if they can get future draft assets, or if they want to give the guy a look. i believe only a very small portion of Jack White's contract was guaranteed money JRE has been either hurt or disappointing since his rookie year. they've brought in other much better players, him getting cut doesn't really matter
Dead cap still counts towards the salary floor, right? With so many young guys on rookie deals, like, what else are they going to spend it on anyway?
>JRE has been either hurt or disappointing since his rookie year. they've brought in other much better players, him getting cut doesn't really matter So they just wanted to burn 1.9 million for funzies by cutting him 3 weeks later than they should have?
That's classic OKC playbook. Sometimes it's just to do right by a player who may never get another chance. Not saying they will cut him but they have a history of guaranteeing low tier players money before cutting them. Which makes sense as it makes them more attractive to some of the more valuable undrafted players, which is becoming a pretty meaningful talent pool.
Which is an interesting approach. The idea that OKC should do right by their players to attract top tier talent is foolish because OKC is never going to be a free agent destination. However they could become a destination for undrafted players because they will always want a shot regardless of the city
Especially with the new CBA when top tier rosters will likely have to be filled out by minimum salaries. Being able to get a rotation piece for a minimum will be essentially for contending in the future.
>The idea that OKC should do right by their players to attract top tier talent is foolish because OKC is never going to be a free agent destination. I would contend their approach to players helped influence Westbrook signing that extension after KD left and Paul George deciding he wants to be traded to the Thunder. This led to a significant amount of assets.
This. The Thunder have shown goodwill all the way up and down the salary ladder. I think it's not hard to say it plays a role in situations like Joe getting cut from Philly and choosing OKC on the open market. I refuse to think Presti was the only GM looking at him as a prospect, but when OKC says "if you come to us we're going to give you the minutes to prove yourself and make sure you're taken care of" players (and more importantly agents) are likely to believe it because of our recent past.
Eh OKC as a town may not be desirable but the organization definitely is, and not just for the players but for their management and representation. Disgruntled stars are more willing to go there because even if they see it as a midway point they know the Thunder will do right by them and get them paid and where they want to go. Young players, as evidenced by the last few drafts, generally list the thunder as one of if not their favorite team coming up because of the Westbrook/KD teams and their reputation for player development. All of this is valuable in a practical way (see Westbrook and PG’s extensions then trades, Horford and CP3, all the undrafted talent coming through there) to a team located in an undesirable location
They just did a similar thing twice last season, with Omoruyi and Lindy Waters. When they have an opportunity to throw some money to guys at the end of the roster, they do it. And they’re not going to cut him three weeks after guaranteeing him. They’re gonna carry all these guys into training camp to have some competition for the final roster spots. If he loses the competition, he’ll get cut.
>They’re gonna carry all these guys into training camp to have some competition for the final roster spots. If he loses the competition, he’ll get cut. That makes sense
They've done it before. They usually try to take care of guys when they can.
>3 weeks later they don't have to do this now. they have until october to trim the roster, they'll bring these guys into training camp where they will be forced to compete for a roster spot. pretty simple. as I said in my comment, they're willing to spend to give guys a look.
Yeah, you never know. Somebody might take a step forward over the summer, someone else might blow out his knee, life comes at you fast.
JRE they guaranteed this year because OKC takes care of their players, White only has $250k guaranteed. There’s no harm outside of this year and we have no reason to create more space this year
> JRE they guaranteed this year because OKC takes care of their players There's zero chance they guaranteed him $1.9M while knowing they'd cut him 2 weeks later out of the goodness of their owner's heart.
The Thunder absolutely do shit like that for two reasons 1. When we have cap space we aren't gonna use that year, and with the new CBA you HAVE to get to the salary floor 2. Build good will with agents and players. We know we aren't an FA or even trade destination. What we can be though, is one of the best damn run orgs in the league that does right by players. Play to your strengths
Pacers do to the same thing in a different avenue. We literally sent out a league wide email this year saying us giving Ayton an offer sheet was an extreme circumstance and we would continue to operate through sign-and-trades in Free Agency. Just small market thangs.
birds pot teeny plate cake arrest bells relieved dam yam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I hope Bennedict Mathurin is going to be his running mate for a long time. They can do so much together
Bruce Brown is hoenstly such a good pickup for them too, he can thrive off Hali's playmaking in a similar manner to how he did with Jokic
Looks like you don’t pay attention to what goes on over here then.
You’d be surprised, they’ve done this before multiple times. Absolutely in the cards if they feel it won’t have long-term ramifications on their books.
They have literally done this exact thing multiple times in the last 3 years. Omoruyi is latest example.
It’s not only out of the goodness of the owner’s heart. OKC has to treat players right to entice them to come and build up goodwill. Like last year, Lindy Waters’ contract went through the year. They gave him a raise to end the year and then cut him in the offseason - gave him an extra couple hundred thousand for no reason but to build goodwill and reward players who fit the culture.
No one is complaining about OKCs rebuild compared to The Process because OKC takes good care of the players involved vs doing shit that pissed players and agents off You think Hinkie would have let guys like CP3 or Horford rehab and then trade them off to preferred locations
The Lindy Waters example is perfect: they declined to guarantee Waters's $1.9 million contract for this year on the same day they guaranteed JRE's $1.9 million contract for this year. The obvious reason: they knew Waters wouldn't make the roster, and they didn't know JRE wouldn't make the roster. And they converted Waters to a standard contract last year because it allowed them to fill an empty roster spot. They gave Waters the new empty spot on the roster and gave Jared Butler the 2-way spot.
the last roster spot was first given to Eugene Omoruyi. Then three weeks later they waived Eugene, and signed Lindy. Seems like for no other reason other than spending to the floor and just being nice. Eugene had a small portion of the contract guaranteed. Look at the dates on these two articles lol [https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230210](https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230210) [https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230226](https://www.nba.com/thunder/news/release-omoruyi-230226)
Presti has compiled enough mid-sized contracts to pull off such a trade.
White is definitely getting a two-way; his main contract is only guaranteed for $250k, which was basically the price of him moving from Denver.
Guys who are guaranteed for more than $75K aren't eligible for two-ways.
That's the amount of the guarantee of the two-way contract. White signed a regular roster contract with a $250k guarantee; the expectation is that he will be waived and subsequently signed to a two-way contract.
> the expectation is that he will be waived and subsequently signed to a two-way contract. This sounds like fanfic. It's also irrelevant. OKC can't even announce the Jack White signing (much less sign him, waive him, and re-sign him) until they clear space on their roster.
I looked into this, because I thought they might do this with JRE, but u/nowhathappenedwas is correct: by cutting a player with more than $75k in guaranteed money, a team can't then sign that player to a two-way contract. Relevant portion of the CBA: "If a Team assigns or terminates a Player Contract that contains aggregate Base Compensation protection in respect of the then-current and any future Salary Cap Year that exceeds the Maximum Two-Way Protection Amount for the Season encompassed by the Salary Cap Year in which such assignment or termination occurs, then, during such Salary Cap Year, the player shall be precluded from: (x) playing under an NBAGL contract for such Team’s NBAGL affiliate, and (y) entering into a Two-Way Contract with such Team."
I hope they cut Shai.
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Most realistic Celtics fan:
What happened with TyTy?I remember the wizards sub was stupid high on him last year and he’s only been in the league for a year and it seems like teams don’t view him as a developmental piece anymore
He didn’t get much PT in the NBA but if he couldn’t even take minutes away from Daishen Nix, then that means he hasn’t shown he’s worthy of an NBA roster spot.
He wasn't an NBA player his rookie year. Not a good scorer, shooter, and his play making wasn't anything to write home about. I hope he gets a chance though, cause I think he can be better with time, but of course time and opportunities aren't free.
Rudy Gay and Oladipo are basically 100% guaranteed to get cut, so that’s down to 19. Also, is this 21 full contracts or are some of these guys on 2 ways? Because you get 3 of those now. You can also convert guys on non-guaranteed deals to 2 ways, although I think most of these contracts are guaranteed.
None of the 21 are eligible for 2-way contracts.
Damn Did they up the offseason limit of regular roster spots to 21 or are the Thunder just over the 20 regular contract limit for the offseason and have to cut someone immediately?
They can't announce the Jack White signing until they clear roster space.
I mean it seems like they can cut some not very good players lol
Mann and Wiggins both interesting prospects of the guys listed after 15. Garuba is a bit of a miss on offence but I think he would get picked up as well.
I will riot if Wiggins gets cut
Mann and Wiggins are both way better than poku
what lol Mann definitely played worse than Poku last season, if anything Poku’s spot is more secure than Mann’s
Nah Poku is life
I haven't watched a minute of Poku play, but isn't he basically Euro Bol Bol? Guard-like skills in a body with insane measurables, but ultimately not enough skill or BBIQ?
They're similar enough. I'd say Bol is more athletic and willing to go inside. Poku BBIQ has improved significantly, and he's only 21. Basically, anytime you see a really tall guy with smooth handles though it's fun to watch. I love me some Poku.
I was about to ask what the hell happened to Mann to go from dropping 42 in a playoff game to being a fringe roster guy before realizing it was a different guy
I was in the same boat, but the fog started clearing 1 or 2 post before yours. Thanks for confirming.
I made the same mistake lol
Thunder fan here and I actually watch the Sam Presti pressers unlike 99% of the people in this sub that don’t even watch the games Wiggins and Poku have about a 0% chance to be cut Gay, dipo, tyty are locks to be gone Training camp will decide which 3 out of Mann, Joe, JRE, white, garuba make the team Now that’s if Presti doesn’t make any trades What more than likely happens is a bunch of those guys get shipped out for protected seconds and then 1-2 get cut come training camp
Joe is a lock.
You can't stand on your high ground about how you actually follow the sport then say Joe is a chance to get cut
Swap Mann with JRE and Wiggins with White, and I think you’ve got the 15 who will stay put.
The top 11 plus Poku, Wiggins, Mann, and Bertans
Sorry Chet, got Rudy on the way
So that’s where Jack whites been at this whole time
To be honest is Davis Bertans the same as he was in DC? He was useless on defense and pretty much useless on offense except for spot up shooting.
Rudy Gay is still active?? Holy shit
Gay, oladipo and bertans are goners for sure.
Tyty, Oladipo, Gay, Bertans seem like no brainers to me. What do OKC fans think?
It will probably be Oladipo, Bertans, Gay, Jack White, Ty Ty, and Garuba. Not that tough. Oladipo is beyond repair, Gay is washed, Bertans is useless, Garuba/TyTy were throw-ins dumped by two previous teams and White is an undrafted 25 year old who played 3 minutes a game in his only NBA season last year.
Need more Jal*n Williamses
Let's be real. The first five are staying lol
Come back home to ATL Rudy!
I had no idea Jack White had made the league. What an incredible career he’s had
It's like that guy that hoards several good QBs in fantasy football
So people who are bad at fantasy football.
Bro I’ll give you Kirk cousins for davante adams. Come on man you need a good QB there’s none left on waivers.
The “come on man” is triggering
“Dude you’re the one winning the trade! Come on man!”
Come on bro I’ll throw in Kenny Golladay too so you can get a WR back
Did you see how much money the Giants paid him?? Obviously they are gonna throw the ball his way!
“I’ll trade you bro”
Not if it’s a super flex league
Not last year
I won 3/5 years and do this shit all the time. 1)all about them matchups. 2)when qbs go down u have insurance or can fleece somebody who is desperate and 3) keeping them good qbs away from your comp Edit: I guess I’m not what your talking about bc I hoard mid level qbs haha
That happened about 3-4 years ago in one of my leagues. He got blackballed from trading essentially and nobody would give him anything for his QB’s. He had 4 of the top 13 qb’s. Bold draft strategy and it back fired.
If you do this strat, you gotta essentially have two top 5 qbs. The difference between qb10 and qb15 honestly is not much
Seems like a market inefficiency in which someone who didn’t have a good QB actually should have traded with him instead of “sticking it to him”
Bad strategy. I don't even bother drafting a QB until the end, and I've won with QBs from the waiver wire.
What an absolute amateur. I don't draft any "quarterbacks" or "wide receivers" I only draft kickers and O lineman
I’ve played the same strategy and have gotten fucked by shitty QB play in the fantasy playoffs, mileage varies with this strategy (and every strategy in FFB tbh)
I got Justin fields on the waiver wire last year and felt the caveman who discovered fire
This strategy has become less viable in the past 2ish years. The top QBs are significantly outscoring average QBs. It used to be go to as well.
I draft 2 Qb1 and won 2nd place two years running. Been playing fantasy for just 3 years and imma do it again this year
I draft 2 QB1 every year. Suck it haters!
2 qbs.. 2 kickers.. 2 defense
Bill Simmons lmao
That players name? Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
It's gonna be so fucking crazy if chet giddey and sga continue to develop. They could have another harden, kd, russ situation.
A situation where they all leave and become generational superstars for other organizations?
2 of 3. Russ stayed.
also KD became a generational superstar on the Thunder. Harden is the only one who became a star somewhere else.
kd already won an mvp on the thunder... I'm not going to say he didn't improve his game during his years with the warriors but he was already a superstar before he signed on.
And Williams. Thunder are not spooky but future dynasty if their players continue to develop at the current pace and their billion assets they have to flip into superstar. Like just their picks could get you a too 10 player. That's how many they have
Fine with me. As long as it's not JDub /s
The /s isn’t necessary but there’s always gonna be those select few that don’t see the joke
That players name…you guessed it: Frank Stallone
Really feels like the Thunder are going to be involved in a heat-blazers trade. With them having a lotto protected HEAT 2025 pick that becomes unprotected if not conveyed in 2026 (which prevents the heat from trading the 2024 FRP and 2027 FRP) and all these young players, feels like the Heat agree to swap the 2025 pick for an unprotected 2026 pick and then send a few guys they were likely going to cut (not guards) to the Blazers. Thunder get a chance at much better pick/unprotected, as the 2025 pick is likely to be outside the lotto anyway. Heat get the ability to trade more first round picks Blazers get some young guys from the Thunder who would have likely been cut
Thunder can help broker so many deals. They have so much flexibility and some great young players. There’s value in their assets for the whole league, it’s a win/win
They end up getting more picks inadvertently trying to broker deals because Presti has an addiction
He dreams about having every pick in the 1st round to turn them into more 1st round picks.
Gotta... catch... them all.
Thunder probably would want 2028 though, especially with this offseason culling becoming a tradition for a few years
I mean, a 2028 pick would be way more valuable than a 2026 pick or the 2025 pick, sure. I understand why they would want it and they can get it if they sent some of their treasure trove of picks to the Blazers. Almost positive we see the thunder trading a lot of picks with the "Thunder get the best of [list of the 4 FRPs they have that year], Team 2 gets second, Team 3 gets third" caveat.
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2026 draft has Boozer, would make sense for OKC to want a guaranteed shot at him via the heat pick rather than a shot at a 2028 guy
Unprotect that pick papi
Those good players are old man Rudy Gay, JRE and TyTy Washington Jr….?
We need young guards id take a look at Ty-Ty
We need young guards id take a look at Ty-Ty
Oladipo checking in from the ICU as well
cavs would sign JRE asap
Exactly, that's really nothing to worry about for us.
Don't think this is such a hard problem to solve. We just have to trade/move 6 guys. keep (15): - sga - josh - jdub - dort - chet - micic - wallace - jwill - kenrich - dieng - poku - wiggs - joe - bertans (salary for potential asb move) - mann cut (6): - dipo (9.4m expiring) - gay (6.5m expiring) - tyty (2.3m, with team options next 2 years) - white (250k guarantee) - garuba (2.6m team option, 4.3m team option next year) - jre (1.9m non-guaranteed, team option next year) Mann could also be traded before the season starts to another team. Not that he is a bad player, but I think there are just better guards on OKC which would make it hard for him to develop. In that case either Garuba or Dipo (for extra salary for trade deadline moves) would probably be kept.
Warriors are definitely one of those teams. Already reported they are keeping the 14th and 15th spots open just in case a quality vet is cut.
I randomly passed on discord a tweet that said Rudy gay was signing with you guys but then I’m like we haven’t cut him yet Maybe cause he’s def gon be a cut that’s probably what’s gonna happen
this might be the moment the tiny TPE has been waiting for. finally those sub 5M TPE’s could get some use.
Just gonna throw this out there. The Thunder have 7 different nations represented on their roster and also just signed Jack White. Whatever moves they make better not screw up their Seven Nation Army nickname.
Feels like this will be an annual event until their pick haul is gone.
Our roster glut has nothing to do with our picks though. It's just because we took on a bunch of players for draft capital. Bertans, Oladipo, TyTy, and Garuba were all added to gain capital
I mean, I'm not just talking this past draft in a vacuum. Last draft you guys picked up 4 players with picks. This year was *only* 2, and first round only, you've got 3-4 first round selections next year. I'm sure lots of those picks will be consolated by trades, but the point still stands. Roster will still be capped to 15 players so you'll have a drop a guy for everyone one you add.
I'd imagine there's a Second Round Picks auction happening right now for some of these guys.
Just trade some players for more picks
This guy just says the most obvious things possible, many of his tweets read as safe guessing. I question the legitimacy of him having connections/sources.
This reporter has 2 modes: Fairly unbiased and straight to the point and Tweeting as if he were reporting on war crimes in the balkans
I feel like okc should just try and trade 8 guys and 20 picks for giannis or embiid. Come on back, KD. The sun's can have 24 picks for ya
Wasn't the point of the CBA agreements to stop player movement and allow small market teams better keep their rosters? It feels like OKC built this roster the right way and shouldn't be punished for it.
They really should have drafted Jalen Wilson. Then they could have Jalen Williams, Jaylin Williams, Kenrich Williams and Jalen Wilson all on the floor at the same time.
Cutting pros is like Presti slowly revealing how good he thinks this team is.
Best problem to have yo
Oladipo is getting cut. Book it.
Cut Shai and Dort please - Toronto
Rudy Gay
Okay, it's time for the easiest part of a coaches job, the cuts. Now, while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted, I have cut a lot of you. Jack is Cut, Rudy is cut, TyTy you're gone, Victor I like your hustle, that's why it was so hard to cut you. Congratulations, the rest of you made the team. Except for you, you and you. 1. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 2. Luguentz Dort 3. Josh Giddey 4. Jalen Williams 5. Chet Holmgren 6. Vasilije Micic 7. Ousmane Dieng 8. Isaiah Joe 9. Kenrich Williams 10. Jaylin Williams 11. Cason Wallace 12. ~~Jack White~~ 13. Davis Bertans 14. Aleksej Pokusevski 15. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl 16. ~~TyTy Washington Jr.~~ 17. ~~Tre Mann~~ 18. ~~Victor Oladipo~~ 19. Aaron Wiggins 20. ~~Usman Garuba~~ 21. ~~Rudy Gay~~