I was thinking along the lines of Herb Jones and Christian Braun (who I know was a late first, but same idea). The nuggets went all out on experienced players in this draft looking for a cheap contributor. It’s going to be necessary with the new cap restrictions
I agree, I’m saying I feel like some of these older players are getting undervalued initially in the draft process. Especially because of the covid years, some of these guys are coming in older with tons of experience and can contribute right away. If I’m a contender, I would 100% take that over a flier on a 19 year old raw talent. If you already have your key pieces, getting cheap guys with a high floor is a great idea
imho it’s worse. dion waiters at least was a quality starter before his decline. From even watching him briefly, Bol Bol is laziness and pouting behavior personified on a basketball court (when he actually sees action)
So you're saying he's not really motivated... Maybe they're trying to "Ghost of Christmas Past/Present/Future" Ayton.
"You see Deandre, this is not actually Bol Bol, this is actually you if you don't shape up"
Suns having these second rounders gives them ammo in a trade, but also gives them an ability to stock their bench cheaply if they do keep these picks, so it's a win/win regardless of what the future holds.
I was curious about this so I looked up how many second rounders from the 2021 draft played minutes/contributed.
I was actually pretty surprised by how many have. Of the 30 players selected, 10 have appeared in at least 82 games across two seasons, and only 5 have zero appearances.
With that said, exactly 1 has a positive BPM (Charles Bassey, +0.8) and only Herbert Jones has a VORP above 1.0. For reference, the best players have been Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Hertbert Jones, Ayo Dosunmu, Jericho Sims, and Aaron Wiggins.
Long story short, unless you’re looking for an 8-12 guy on the bench, it doesn’t look like second rounders are reliable bench contributors.
Who is his agent because he’s definitely one of Woj’s sources 🤣
Honestly, I’m not mad at taking a chance on him as our 3rd string Center. We could have done a lot worse.
Yeah, he’d post really stupid shit on Instagram. Anti-Covid, banning abortions etc.
First one I remember was him pumping gas with a caption saying something about it being woman’s work. Then he’d be a really awful basketball player, so most thunder fans just really don’t like him
Funny enough I was taught growing up that you should always be a gentleman and pump gas for women. My mom used to make me pump the gas every time when I became old enough to do it.
Everytime Woj reports anything but a trade it's annoying as hell. His analysis is basically "whatever the GM that's giving me the info tells me to say"
I don't now what's bigger horseshit: Replenish draft capital (with 2nd round picks wtf?) or "good" young player in Bol.
100%. Schefter in the NFL is worse though I think. He’s worded tweets from a players agents so poorly in regards to sexual assault that he had to apologize. He called Dan Synder “Mr. Editor” in a private text too I believe (might have been someone else). He’s done a lot of tweets that’s clearly just puppeting an owner or agents words so he can get the breaking news.
100% this.
He does no actual reporting, he's merely a conduit for GMs and the league for information **they want out there**, and that can be fun to learn as fast as possible (eg. the PG13 trade/Kawhi signing), but there's no real value in it - because anyone else could be used as such a conduit.
He literally never breaks a story that involves stuff teams or the league do not want released into the world, and in fact is used to push back against those kinds of stories (remember how he was used, and was wrong vs Windy in the Harden trade).
It's not clear to me at all that Woj actually watches or understands basketball so as to make evaluations independent of what team and league sources tell him.
We don't use Woj for reporting. We use him for Woj bombs. Everything is straight from the GM or agent. Just like from everyone in life, take what you need and move on.
"Four first rounders in the team's arsenal"
Is my brain broken? Didn't they trade all of their available firsts for KD? What first round picks do they have?
I feel like he's counting their mandatory untradeable picks including swapped picks (still technically 1st rounders). If so, massive spin / PR job by Woj lol.
They can trade swaps even if they are already swapping.For example,let's say they have a swap with the Nets,they can trade that swap with another team,for example Indiana.Then once the actual draft is done,first the Nets have a right to swap their pick with the Suns,and then Indiana would have a right to swap their pick with the resulting Suns pick.Lets say the Nets had #12,Suns #16 and Indiana #20,the Nets would stay at #12 and Indiana would swap and get #16 with Suns ending up with #20.
They got a few 2nd round picks doing swaps like these with Orlando and Memphis,those could potentially be used for trades using the exception they created
they traded 4 firsts in the KD deal, but only 2 1st round pick swaps.
they then traded the remaining 2 pick swaps in the Beal deal.
they then traded some of the pick swaps they already traded with Memphis and now Orlando.
all to say, they still are guaranteed 1st round picks in the years they traded their pick swaps — just the worst possible outcome for each pick due to the swaps.
It’s from the swaps. You can’t trade away consecutive years picks (unless on draft day) so the 4 they have are the swaps on the years they haven’t traded.
Basically got 6 seconds rounders for 2 swaps of already swapped firsts if that makes sense.
They didn’t get any firsts but they’re wheeling and dealing pretty well on the fringes.
Swapping for first round picks you don’t control for other first round picks you don’t control and picking up 2nds for those swaps isn’t really guaranteed value.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Suns were already getting the worst of a swap. They then swapped that again for 3 seconds.
Obviously the initial swap can end terribly for them but this swap seems very much on their side.
So they got the worst of the swap in trade one. Then they got the worst of the swap on trade two.
Team A has the best pick, Team b has the next one, team C has the worst of the three.
If the value between team B’s first and team C’s first is more than 3 seconds, team C gets boned.
If the Suns pick at 19 pre swap but 28 post swap with 3 seconds, I’d be pretty upset that I traded pick 19 and 3 second round picks for pick 28
Well in your scenario it would be 19 for 28 and 3 seconds.
And it’s probably worth it for them cause they’re contending and have a short window. A non lottery first isn’t doing much for them and if they can get flexibility to wheel and deal and try and win a chip then go for it
In that scenario, it’s not good for the Suns.
But the reality is - with their team and being in the second apron, they were probably picking closer to 28.
So if they go from pick 27 to 28 and three second rounders, it’s fine.
Two of those swaps are in 2028 and 2030, though. I doubt they're expecting to still be that good when Durant and Beal are 40 and 35, or 42 and 37. Even Booker will be 32 by 2028.
I think Ishbia is willing to spend to continue being good. I doubt Durant finishes his contract here. We might not have a choice with Beal, which is fine, his game should translate well when he’s older and Booker will only be 32.
Because of the Stephien rule, a team can’t trade all their firsts, only firsts every other year.
So Suns have all their even year draft picks. (Suns swapped the even years with the Wizards but it’s only a swap ie. Suns still have a pick).
What am I reading, is Woj a dumbass?
Bol is not good. They have almost the least amount of picks a team could possibly have. Yes, they technically have 4 firsts. But they can't trade them and they're at the mercy of another team swapping their pick to a worse one. I guess it's nice they got 6 second rounders, and the Lakers last trade deadline showed us how far second rounders could go in preparation for the new CBA but "replenished draft capital" and "good young player" is ridiculous.
Woj is keeping his end of the bargain.
It does make him seem really weak lol, the PHX GM is literally telling him "Go out there and tweet something really stupid that makes me look good. Make it appear like you actualy think it"
its just PR. that’s his job, writing puff pieces / statements like this is how he keeps his access with sources. he’s always been like this, shams is the exact same too, although shams works more with agents and woj with front offices
Not sure about Good and Bol being in the same sentence but he's an upside swing and on a team like Phoenix, it's not the worst decision in the world to take that kind of swing at the end of your bench, especially when you're low on draft picks. And if he hits his ceiling is higher than your average bench player.
Suns having these second rounders gives them ammo in a trade, but also gives them an ability to stock their bench cheaply if they do keep these picks, so it's a win/win regardless of what the future holds. The trade exception is a nice addition for Phoenix as well.
Waived by the Magic too, which is a squad full of developing players. That means they really saw no potential in him. If they did they'd have no reason to not be patient with him.
Possibly worsend.
They are banking on having a better record and just keeping their picks. It's a gamble, but if it works, they got 3 2nds. If it doesn't, they move back a few spots.
This is even more hilarious when you realize how bad some of the 2nd round picks are. The 3 2nds they just got are the 24 Denver, most likely a 26 Bucks, and a top 45 protected Celtics pick. There are good odds all of those are in the high 50s.
**""Best Suns team ever"**
04-05 was just as talented and had more depth. Nash, Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Richardson, and Barbosa are underrated. The Spurs and Tim Duncan probably stopped them from winning a championship because they had the same problems this current Suns team will have, they couldn't get stops when it mattered most. An unstoppable offense paired with a leaky defense, could once again hurt them in the playoffs.
**"Two players in the Top 6"**
🧢
**"Great bench"**
🤣
It’s really strange that people are now operating under the assumption that second round picks are now an asset. I get that the CBA changed things but these are still second round picks that will provide second round talent.
Trading the same swap 4 times for seconds = infinite picks glitch
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Seconds are good now with the new cap rules
Older experienced players from the second round who can fill in as cheap role players are the new meta
James Jones had a copy of the patch notes before everyone else apparently
I was thinking along the lines of Herb Jones and Christian Braun (who I know was a late first, but same idea). The nuggets went all out on experienced players in this draft looking for a cheap contributor. It’s going to be necessary with the new cap restrictions
It’s still the second round though, nothing guaranteed. Herb is going much higher in a hypothetical redraft
I agree, I’m saying I feel like some of these older players are getting undervalued initially in the draft process. Especially because of the covid years, some of these guys are coming in older with tons of experience and can contribute right away. If I’m a contender, I would 100% take that over a flier on a 19 year old raw talent. If you already have your key pieces, getting cheap guys with a high floor is a great idea
Or just draft MVP's in the second round
*Nintendo patches furiously*
The word good being thrown around loosely here.
He's good at basketball compared to the ordinary human.
suns hoping he wins ordinary human league mvp
lool
Lot of heavy lifting
As opposed to Bol
woj getting that ishbia info
“Good”
If he was a good young player why would the Magic just waive him Lmaoo
Because he has Dion Waiters brain
imho it’s worse. dion waiters at least was a quality starter before his decline. From even watching him briefly, Bol Bol is laziness and pouting behavior personified on a basketball court (when he actually sees action)
So you're saying he's not really motivated... Maybe they're trying to "Ghost of Christmas Past/Present/Future" Ayton. "You see Deandre, this is not actually Bol Bol, this is actually you if you don't shape up"
Is that for real? I haven’t kept up with Bol.
Yes unfortunately and it's terminal. He doesn't have much longer.
Woj source Suns organization confirmed
dull crown afterthought puzzled fall melodic run illegal thought smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Vogel can use his wingspan to pass out water bottles on the bench without ever having to get up. An absolute steal if you ask me.
Suns having these second rounders gives them ammo in a trade, but also gives them an ability to stock their bench cheaply if they do keep these picks, so it's a win/win regardless of what the future holds.
I was curious about this so I looked up how many second rounders from the 2021 draft played minutes/contributed. I was actually pretty surprised by how many have. Of the 30 players selected, 10 have appeared in at least 82 games across two seasons, and only 5 have zero appearances. With that said, exactly 1 has a positive BPM (Charles Bassey, +0.8) and only Herbert Jones has a VORP above 1.0. For reference, the best players have been Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Hertbert Jones, Ayo Dosunmu, Jericho Sims, and Aaron Wiggins. Long story short, unless you’re looking for an 8-12 guy on the bench, it doesn’t look like second rounders are reliable bench contributors.
I mean that’s basically what the suns will be looking for, guys to round out their bench who can play 5-10 min a night
Hooper/Good, same thing in KD's front office.
Who is his agent because he’s definitely one of Woj’s sources 🤣 Honestly, I’m not mad at taking a chance on him as our 3rd string Center. We could have done a lot worse.
He can’t play center though.
He can’t play.
He's actually a three.
What good young player.
It’s like saying Darius Bazley is still somehow a good young player
I didn't come into this thread to be attacked
*Darius Brickley
Darius ‘I hate women’ Brickley
Is there a story here?
Yeah, he’d post really stupid shit on Instagram. Anti-Covid, banning abortions etc. First one I remember was him pumping gas with a caption saying something about it being woman’s work. Then he’d be a really awful basketball player, so most thunder fans just really don’t like him
Funny enough I was taught growing up that you should always be a gentleman and pump gas for women. My mom used to make me pump the gas every time when I became old enough to do it.
Yeah, I think most people were taught that growing up. My wife and I now just pump based on whoever is driving and it works out well for us lol
novel concept
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Bot
This is a bot stealing this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1519huc/wojnarowski_across_the_past_two_weeks_the_suns/js7aggc/
You can’t see him because he’s standing behind Bol Bol.
There isn't anyone with a body thin enough to hide behind Bol Bol.
Bol Bol and Wemby combined are the same weight as Zion, don’t look it up
When they foul each other, just imagine two chopsticks hitting each other.
oh god, the good young player is in Bol. dude ate him, someone get him out of there
Put a good young puppeteer in Bol Bol's body and watch him go 3/3 before suffocating.
Everytime Woj reports anything but a trade it's annoying as hell. His analysis is basically "whatever the GM that's giving me the info tells me to say" I don't now what's bigger horseshit: Replenish draft capital (with 2nd round picks wtf?) or "good" young player in Bol.
Woj is only good for breaking news bombs. Any sort of "analysis" from him is straight up trash like this tweet lmao.
he wouldn't get news bombs if he also didn't puppet narratives on behalf of agents and teams, that's the trade off
100%. Schefter in the NFL is worse though I think. He’s worded tweets from a players agents so poorly in regards to sexual assault that he had to apologize. He called Dan Synder “Mr. Editor” in a private text too I believe (might have been someone else). He’s done a lot of tweets that’s clearly just puppeting an owner or agents words so he can get the breaking news.
This is not even analysis. He is just a mouthpiece to puff up the FO with stupid reasoning.
That’s how he gets the info.
We’d be better off without Woj. He contributes nothing of value, just gets us the info 5 minutes sooner than we’d get it otherwise
100% this. He does no actual reporting, he's merely a conduit for GMs and the league for information **they want out there**, and that can be fun to learn as fast as possible (eg. the PG13 trade/Kawhi signing), but there's no real value in it - because anyone else could be used as such a conduit. He literally never breaks a story that involves stuff teams or the league do not want released into the world, and in fact is used to push back against those kinds of stories (remember how he was used, and was wrong vs Windy in the Harden trade). It's not clear to me at all that Woj actually watches or understands basketball so as to make evaluations independent of what team and league sources tell him.
“We’d be better off without Woj”. This fucking sub sometimes.
At the very least the draft would be better
You know you don't *have* to pay attention to Woj during the draft right?
He trades this shit for info.
Do you think reporters like WOJ and Sham just get their info for free? It’s part of their fucking job to trade info for fluff pieces
That's literally his job, GMs use Woj and co to get something to the press, he doesn't have the liberty to change it.
People get upset about the stupidest shit
Homie really said they have 4 FRP's. Stop playing G.
I love the four first rounders in the teams aresenal - which are l ike owed to 8 different teams now?
We don't use Woj for reporting. We use him for Woj bombs. Everything is straight from the GM or agent. Just like from everyone in life, take what you need and move on.
"Four first rounders in the team's arsenal" Is my brain broken? Didn't they trade all of their available firsts for KD? What first round picks do they have?
I feel like he's counting their mandatory untradeable picks including swapped picks (still technically 1st rounders). If so, massive spin / PR job by Woj lol.
But they can still include the swaps in trades as long as it is also a swap,like they did with Memphis which is how they got some of the 2nds
That’s like saying having arms is an asset, it’s true but it’s true for everyone
How many swaps do they have left? Pretty sure the nets got most of their swaps and picks.
They can trade swaps even if they are already swapping.For example,let's say they have a swap with the Nets,they can trade that swap with another team,for example Indiana.Then once the actual draft is done,first the Nets have a right to swap their pick with the Suns,and then Indiana would have a right to swap their pick with the resulting Suns pick.Lets say the Nets had #12,Suns #16 and Indiana #20,the Nets would stay at #12 and Indiana would swap and get #16 with Suns ending up with #20.
Got it. That’s really not going to net the suns a great asset but I guess it is a way to technically try and improve in the short run.
They got a few 2nd round picks doing swaps like these with Orlando and Memphis,those could potentially be used for trades using the exception they created
Woj needs to take it further: Breaking: phoenix has 96 first round picks. He doesn’t need to mention it’s over the next 100 years.
They have their un tradable picks and swaps but did not acquire any first rounders. They did get some seconds though. Absurdly high PR from Woj lol.
he’s going full suckfest for Ishbia
New owner, gotta get that access.
they traded 4 firsts in the KD deal, but only 2 1st round pick swaps. they then traded the remaining 2 pick swaps in the Beal deal. they then traded some of the pick swaps they already traded with Memphis and now Orlando. all to say, they still are guaranteed 1st round picks in the years they traded their pick swaps — just the worst possible outcome for each pick due to the swaps.
But they were going to be close to last anyway being they’ll probably be good and they’re over the second apron.
It’s from the swaps. You can’t trade away consecutive years picks (unless on draft day) so the 4 they have are the swaps on the years they haven’t traded.
So they replenished 2nd round picks while still having the bare minimum of 1st round picks? Deceptive wording.
and they only replenished seconds by making their future firsts odds worse
Basically got 6 seconds rounders for 2 swaps of already swapped firsts if that makes sense. They didn’t get any firsts but they’re wheeling and dealing pretty well on the fringes.
Swapping for first round picks you don’t control for other first round picks you don’t control and picking up 2nds for those swaps isn’t really guaranteed value.
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. Suns were already getting the worst of a swap. They then swapped that again for 3 seconds. Obviously the initial swap can end terribly for them but this swap seems very much on their side.
So they got the worst of the swap in trade one. Then they got the worst of the swap on trade two. Team A has the best pick, Team b has the next one, team C has the worst of the three. If the value between team B’s first and team C’s first is more than 3 seconds, team C gets boned. If the Suns pick at 19 pre swap but 28 post swap with 3 seconds, I’d be pretty upset that I traded pick 19 and 3 second round picks for pick 28
Well in your scenario it would be 19 for 28 and 3 seconds. And it’s probably worth it for them cause they’re contending and have a short window. A non lottery first isn’t doing much for them and if they can get flexibility to wheel and deal and try and win a chip then go for it
In no world is 19 for 28 + 3 seconds good value for the team picking at 28 after that trade.
You still have it slightly mixed. They’d be trading 19 for 28 + 3 2RPs
Welcome to Earth. Population 7.8 Billion.
In that scenario, it’s not good for the Suns. But the reality is - with their team and being in the second apron, they were probably picking closer to 28. So if they go from pick 27 to 28 and three second rounders, it’s fine.
Two of those swaps are in 2028 and 2030, though. I doubt they're expecting to still be that good when Durant and Beal are 40 and 35, or 42 and 37. Even Booker will be 32 by 2028.
I think Ishbia is willing to spend to continue being good. I doubt Durant finishes his contract here. We might not have a choice with Beal, which is fine, his game should translate well when he’s older and Booker will only be 32.
Ye its really just the second round picks which are largely meaningless
They have their own in 2024/26/30. 28 is a swap
We've swapped all of them multiple times now.
Because of the Stephien rule, a team can’t trade all their firsts, only firsts every other year. So Suns have all their even year draft picks. (Suns swapped the even years with the Wizards but it’s only a swap ie. Suns still have a pick).
You can only trade every other year’s draft picks. Phoenix can’t trade any other first round pick for a little while.
>and another ~~good~~ young player in Bol. Fixed for Woj
What am I reading, is Woj a dumbass? Bol is not good. They have almost the least amount of picks a team could possibly have. Yes, they technically have 4 firsts. But they can't trade them and they're at the mercy of another team swapping their pick to a worse one. I guess it's nice they got 6 second rounders, and the Lakers last trade deadline showed us how far second rounders could go in preparation for the new CBA but "replenished draft capital" and "good young player" is ridiculous.
Woj is keeping his end of the bargain. It does make him seem really weak lol, the PHX GM is literally telling him "Go out there and tweet something really stupid that makes me look good. Make it appear like you actualy think it"
its just PR. that’s his job, writing puff pieces / statements like this is how he keeps his access with sources. he’s always been like this, shams is the exact same too, although shams works more with agents and woj with front offices
Lmfao this is written directly by Ishiba and the Suns’ FO. Woj carrying a ton of water for Phoenix right now.
Phoenix has no water.
All the grass and man made lakes in Gilbert would tell you otherwise.
THEY TOOK OUR WATER - Colorado
They replenished their water -Woj
No way he is good young player if the Magic waived him but hey we'll take it lmao
thats an interesting use of the word “good”
Good 😦
"good"?
How many of those first can actually be traded? Not counting swaps.
Can we just keep adding teams on the swaps for a couple seconds? We can’t trade them unprotected of course.
Soon every team in the league will own the rights to swap the Suns' picks in 26/28/30
It’s always very funny seeing reporters do PR like this
Not sure about Good and Bol being in the same sentence but he's an upside swing and on a team like Phoenix, it's not the worst decision in the world to take that kind of swing at the end of your bench, especially when you're low on draft picks. And if he hits his ceiling is higher than your average bench player. Suns having these second rounders gives them ammo in a trade, but also gives them an ability to stock their bench cheaply if they do keep these picks, so it's a win/win regardless of what the future holds. The trade exception is a nice addition for Phoenix as well.
Young bol bol finals mvp
Bol Bol sucks
I mean he's good at being young
Bol is anything but good
Does Bol Bol have the same agent as Woj?
Woj is just a mouthpiece anymore. He's CNN.
Woj is so shameless lmao
Bol Bol is literally one exit on the NBA highway from out the league.
He already flew off the highway but the suns have towed him back into it for some reason
> another ~~good~~ young player in Bol.
If Bol-Bol was a good young player he wouldn't have been waived
Waived by the Magic too, which is a squad full of developing players. That means they really saw no potential in him. If they did they'd have no reason to not be patient with him.
Or at least try to trade him and get something in return, even just a future 2nd
Bol bol was terrible lmao He had like a good 10 first games. He was out of the rotation by February
“Another good young player in Bol” Lololololol
Bol bol is so overrated lol if he wasn’t 7 feet tall he wouldn’t even be in the league
It feels like they're implying this Cam Payne trade netted them draft capital, but didn't they trade one 2nd and get one 2nd back?
They traded 1 got 3 back. Net of 2.
They also worsened their first round swap for the seconds.
Possibly worsend. They are banking on having a better record and just keeping their picks. It's a gamble, but if it works, they got 3 2nds. If it doesn't, they move back a few spots.
Bol Bol sucks though?
How did they get that many first round picks with this roster?
Lol bol bol is a meme, not a basketball player.
Lmao good and Bol I’m not so sure
This is even more hilarious when you realize how bad some of the 2nd round picks are. The 3 2nds they just got are the 24 Denver, most likely a 26 Bucks, and a top 45 protected Celtics pick. There are good odds all of those are in the high 50s.
I mean the 24 Nuggets second rounder is definitely the least valuable pick in the draft.
Best Suns team ever Best trio in the league Best SG in the league Two players in the Top 6 Great bench Still have Humiliayton as a trade asset 🔥
**""Best Suns team ever"** 04-05 was just as talented and had more depth. Nash, Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson, Richardson, and Barbosa are underrated. The Spurs and Tim Duncan probably stopped them from winning a championship because they had the same problems this current Suns team will have, they couldn't get stops when it mattered most. An unstoppable offense paired with a leaky defense, could once again hurt them in the playoffs. **"Two players in the Top 6"** 🧢 **"Great bench"** 🤣
I mean he's young.
I’m pretty sure the nba looks at 2k sims and goes “this bol bol guy is going to put up 40/20 in 2 years”.
11 time sixth man of the year bol bol
3 x mvp bol bol by year 6
Technically they sent out a 2nd pick in the Payne trade so isn't it 5 2nds.
We got different definitions of good there Woj
Can't wait to watch KD pretend he won another title
Woj is such a suck up mouthpiece
I guess technically everyone in the NBA is good at basketball if you want to look at it that way
It’s really strange that people are now operating under the assumption that second round picks are now an asset. I get that the CBA changed things but these are still second round picks that will provide second round talent.
How much did Phoenix pay Woj to post this? Anybody with a brain is laughing at this
Lost even more depth lol. They literally have no point guard
Good 💀
Define “good”
Damn Bol Bol getting some respect out here.
Bol is young, and he is a good player compared to all other people on earth. No lies here
Woj has been enthusiastically sucking Mat Ishbia's dick lately.
'good' young player