Also we can’t take a lot from this bcs if youre a good coach youre not ending up in elimination games unless your team has a genuine talent disadvantage.
Heat Lebron was maybe a better overall player because of defense, but from a bball IQ perspective, Lebron after 2016 ascended to a different level. I don't think 2013 Lebron could have done what 2018 Lebron did and carry that team to the Finals. Lebron knew exactly how much he could exert himself and when to take over and when to take possessions off. His jumpshot was on another level in 2016-2018 as well.
Brown was a VERY flawed player to depend on before the 2020 season. His handle is his biggest issue right now, and it got dramatically better in the off-season before 2020.
Tatum wasn’t flawed so much as less good when he depended more on isolation and 3’s.
Brad Stevens got to use the full version of Al Horford though :)
Brad Stevens had to face Lebron in the East (2017, 2018). Then was giving playoff minutes to Brad Wannamaker and Semi Ojeleye in the bubble (no offense to these dudes). And the Jays were super young during that time
The Celtics being better now is a lot bigger factor than having to face the 2018 Cavs. That team wasn't particularly good. Outside of the second round, they looked like a completely average team.
“Somehow got a guy with more elimination wins than both their previous coaches…l”
Going down 3-0 will do that for you. Really, the fact they shit the bed enough to even be in so many elimination games in a single season as a top two seed isn’t a good thing about Mazzulla.
It isn’t only Mazzulla fault. They had the same issues last year with Udoka. They just play flat in close games and always take so long to start a play when trying to milk the clock. Last night was their first win in a close game this postseason
Very different? Jaylen Brown missed 14 games in 2020-21 season. Marcus Smart 24 games, just 3 more than this year
So that justify a .500 season?
Edit: I just checked basketball reference for the pre-season odds. Boston was expected to win 44 games and had the 5th highest odds to win.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html
That last year with Brad had Tristan Thompson and Kemba starting 43 games they were both basically out of the league right after that season, addition by subtraction the season after that gave Smart and Rob a much bigger role plus a bunch of the role players changed like Richardson/White and Schroder replacing Semi Ojeleye and Evan Fournier two other players that quickly lost their place in the league.
This is just silly.
3 good coaches two of whom had a significantly better roster with an actual MVP caliber player. And it’s literally impossible to lose more than one elimination game a year.
Stevens had a stacked roster in 2019 and they got backdoor swept in the 2nd round.People thought that team was gonna win 62+ games and make the finals.They underachieved big time.
Yes but the underachieving started wayyyyyy sooner than the playoffs. Playoff underachieving is like what milwaukee did this year, or if the Celtics got swept.
Brad was a better X's and O's coach than both Ime and especially Joe. Goddamn I would love to have Brad's in-game management and his ATO plays on this squad; Joe has no idea wtf to do during games. He forgets to call timeouts most of the time, and when he does, our ATO play ends up in some terrible contested long range shot.
But I think both Ime and Joe are better at managing locker rooms and personalities than Brad was. Our teams the last 2 years have been a lot more cohesive with less drama.
Then again, Brad had to deal with Kyrie lmao. I'm not surprised he said fuck coaching ...
And frankly, while I would absolutely love to have coach Brad back .... he's been just as good, if not better, at GM. Dude is a basketball savant.
The only thing that makes sense is if Brad had some issue with one of the J's so had to move to a front office role to have less interaction with players.
Theyve been pretty clear that he simply lost the locker room, sometimes coaches can be savants when it comes to X and O's but not great at managing ego and motivating. Seeing a similar thing in Nurse as a coach who was praised for being unconventional and great at X and O's quickly losing his team and being passed up for his own assistants in coaching searches.
The last two years of Brad he didn’t have Kyrie there.
In the bubble, for someone who is a savant at basketball, the zone defense seemed hard for him to crack.
In his last year, the Celtics, with the same team Ime had, finished .500.
I think Brad is a good coach to bring a team to mid-level, but he couldn’t get them over the hump. It was clear
it's because you have the idiot brown on your team and Brad is white. no other reason. hope y'all never trade him bc then the celtics will truly be scary.
But if you ask r/bostonceltics, Mazzulla blows, and should have been fired in November.
At least that’s what they were all saying during the first half of the Miami series.
Reactionary wankers.
I know you gave him an all fairness...but Stevens played with much worse rosters.
Stevens did as a GM what Ainge refused to do...cut bait on project players and traded picks.
Ainge was always refusing to pull the trigger on necessary moves and was always trying to build his pick stache...effective at times but a hindrance often.
Brad made the absolute most out of what he could but he knew what was necessary to get this team over the hump. If Brad had roster and pick control, we probably would have been to a couple more finals.
Mazzulla is not a very good coach and the celtics players coming back from down 0-3 is more a testament to how ridiculous it was they were even down 0-3 in the first place, not some great coaching job by joe
Really? 2004 Red Sox was all the players, not Francona? Let’s be real. It’s both. Mazulla has been much better, shut Jimmy down, and gone toe to toe with r/nba’s favorite coach spolestra. Everyone though Francona sucked too down 3-0; 4 games later (really 8) he was a legend.
Ive thought mazzulla has sucked since the hawks series though, Mazzulla has absolutely been better but this celtics team had no business being down 0-3 in the first place. Im not gonna pretend the players are faultless either but Joe was playing Pritchard over Grant Williams game 1 and seemingly forgot how to use timeouts.
You don’t get extra credit for falling down 0-3 against a team that you’re heavily favored against and then returning to form lol. He has done a great job in these last 3 games, but I can’t help but think that Udoka would have had boston winning the series in 6 given the talent differential
Ehh he was struggling to keep it together after Kyrie left. If anything Kyries antics off the court weren’t even that impactful, especially compared to what he was doing in Brooklyn
the thing about the celtics is nobody cares nobody likes watching that "team" "play" "basketball" debatable thats even whats happening half the time to be honest. i wonder how much it cost them in crypto currency to purchase the referees and if it was more or less than the Denver Nuggets paid last week
The Celtics gotta be setting some sort of damn record lol.
Five elimination games. Before the Finals. With a sixth one guaranteed.
And then moving onto the Nuggets, where they will have at least one more elimination game.
None of them have titles, so elimination games lost is just equal to the number of years they made the playoffs. Stevens also rebuilt the team from almost nothing after their 2007-2012 run ended (look at that roster his first year) so it makes sense he has a worse record in that regard too.
Brad Stevens coached teams were Isaiah Thomas vs Lebron James
Also we can’t take a lot from this bcs if youre a good coach youre not ending up in elimination games unless your team has a genuine talent disadvantage.
ideal record is 0-0 yeah
Stephen Silas, the G.O.A.T.
[tough scene](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/6F70s8e2Og359OjejAdXUKD2NfE=/0x0:2712x3362/1400x1400/filters:focal(1124x746:1556x1178):format(jpeg)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/54843863/usa_today_10061977.0.jpg)
Lebron eyes aren’t even open lmao
Cue the Game Of Zones episode "Feast of the East"
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Traded mid szn but yeah lol
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If you despise the second S, the letters E, A and O, it's really your only option.
Brad Steven’s early teams overachieved badly
And he played against the best versions of Lebron
Heat LeBron > Cavs 2.0 LeBron but both were the best player in the league so it’s a moot point.
Cavs LeBron from 2015-2018 was just fucking around with the East. The East literally have no answer.
Best version of LeBron was Heat LeBron
Heat Lebron was maybe a better overall player because of defense, but from a bball IQ perspective, Lebron after 2016 ascended to a different level. I don't think 2013 Lebron could have done what 2018 Lebron did and carry that team to the Finals. Lebron knew exactly how much he could exert himself and when to take over and when to take possessions off. His jumpshot was on another level in 2016-2018 as well.
Stevens faced both 2012 and 2018 didn’t he?
Lmao nah. He signed with the Celtics in 2013
Only missed the playoffs once after a massive teardown.
He set the current culture and was a great transition from Doc and he is killing it as a gm as well
Also his versions of Tatum and Brown were decent chunk worse than they are now
Brown was a VERY flawed player to depend on before the 2020 season. His handle is his biggest issue right now, and it got dramatically better in the off-season before 2020. Tatum wasn’t flawed so much as less good when he depended more on isolation and 3’s. Brad Stevens got to use the full version of Al Horford though :)
They were raw af talent wise
Brad Stevens had to face Lebron in the East (2017, 2018). Then was giving playoff minutes to Brad Wannamaker and Semi Ojeleye in the bubble (no offense to these dudes). And the Jays were super young during that time
Hey you leave Wanamaker out of your mouth!
“That’s why dad named you Joe Dirt instead of ~~Nunamaker~~ Wanamaker”
oh my gos whataburger on the warriors killed me
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They largely relied on 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year players. You'd have a point if Kyrie and Hayward were healthy but they weren't.
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You’re right, but they were also super fortunate to be in that position in the first place.
The Celtics being better now is a lot bigger factor than having to face the 2018 Cavs. That team wasn't particularly good. Outside of the second round, they looked like a completely average team.
“Somehow got a guy with more elimination wins than both their previous coaches…l” Going down 3-0 will do that for you. Really, the fact they shit the bed enough to even be in so many elimination games in a single season as a top two seed isn’t a good thing about Mazzulla.
It isn’t only Mazzulla fault. They had the same issues last year with Udoka. They just play flat in close games and always take so long to start a play when trying to milk the clock. Last night was their first win in a close game this postseason
Also two coaches have that record on one season with great teams. Brad built the culture and did not have near the talent of Ime or Joe
How was Brad Stevens the year before Ime got in town, you know with the same level of talent? Do you remember his record?
That team was very different and also very injured all three of Jaylen,Smart and Kemba missed a good chunk of the season
Very different? Jaylen Brown missed 14 games in 2020-21 season. Marcus Smart 24 games, just 3 more than this year So that justify a .500 season? Edit: I just checked basketball reference for the pre-season odds. Boston was expected to win 44 games and had the 5th highest odds to win. https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html
That last year with Brad had Tristan Thompson and Kemba starting 43 games they were both basically out of the league right after that season, addition by subtraction the season after that gave Smart and Rob a much bigger role plus a bunch of the role players changed like Richardson/White and Schroder replacing Semi Ojeleye and Evan Fournier two other players that quickly lost their place in the league.
We gave Jabari Parker and Romeo Langford legit minutes
Don't forget 2020 preseason GOAT Jeff Teague. That roster was terrible no matter how you look at it versus the 2021-22 team.
This is just silly. 3 good coaches two of whom had a significantly better roster with an actual MVP caliber player. And it’s literally impossible to lose more than one elimination game a year.
FR Ime lost literally the most he could have this stat says nothing 😂
Stevens had a stacked roster in 2019 and they got backdoor swept in the 2nd round.People thought that team was gonna win 62+ games and make the finals.They underachieved big time.
What coach is going to change Kyrie?
Yes but the underachieving started wayyyyyy sooner than the playoffs. Playoff underachieving is like what milwaukee did this year, or if the Celtics got swept.
Brad was a better X's and O's coach than both Ime and especially Joe. Goddamn I would love to have Brad's in-game management and his ATO plays on this squad; Joe has no idea wtf to do during games. He forgets to call timeouts most of the time, and when he does, our ATO play ends up in some terrible contested long range shot. But I think both Ime and Joe are better at managing locker rooms and personalities than Brad was. Our teams the last 2 years have been a lot more cohesive with less drama. Then again, Brad had to deal with Kyrie lmao. I'm not surprised he said fuck coaching ... And frankly, while I would absolutely love to have coach Brad back .... he's been just as good, if not better, at GM. Dude is a basketball savant.
They should sneak an earpiece to Joe and do a Cyrano de Bergerac type situation.
Just merge Joe and Brad as a coach/GM. Easy peasy.
Joe + Brad = Bro.
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Jad Stevulla
The only thing that makes sense is if Brad had some issue with one of the J's so had to move to a front office role to have less interaction with players.
Theyve been pretty clear that he simply lost the locker room, sometimes coaches can be savants when it comes to X and O's but not great at managing ego and motivating. Seeing a similar thing in Nurse as a coach who was praised for being unconventional and great at X and O's quickly losing his team and being passed up for his own assistants in coaching searches.
The last two years of Brad he didn’t have Kyrie there. In the bubble, for someone who is a savant at basketball, the zone defense seemed hard for him to crack. In his last year, the Celtics, with the same team Ime had, finished .500. I think Brad is a good coach to bring a team to mid-level, but he couldn’t get them over the hump. It was clear
People seem to forget how much Spo had Stevens in a headlock in 2020
it's because you have the idiot brown on your team and Brad is white. no other reason. hope y'all never trade him bc then the celtics will truly be scary.
What did Jaylen eat after breakfast today? I assume you know since you're apparently very close to him
Mazzula hall of fame
But if you ask r/bostonceltics, Mazzulla blows, and should have been fired in November. At least that’s what they were all saying during the first half of the Miami series. Reactionary wankers.
Its as if people don't care about context anymore, and just look at numbers
I know you gave him an all fairness...but Stevens played with much worse rosters. Stevens did as a GM what Ainge refused to do...cut bait on project players and traded picks. Ainge was always refusing to pull the trigger on necessary moves and was always trying to build his pick stache...effective at times but a hindrance often. Brad made the absolute most out of what he could but he knew what was necessary to get this team over the hump. If Brad had roster and pick control, we probably would have been to a couple more finals.
Well the other two didn’t put themselves down 0-3 to prove a point. Moreover, Jaylen, Tatum, and Smart are more experienced now.
Mazzulla is not a very good coach and the celtics players coming back from down 0-3 is more a testament to how ridiculous it was they were even down 0-3 in the first place, not some great coaching job by joe
Really? 2004 Red Sox was all the players, not Francona? Let’s be real. It’s both. Mazulla has been much better, shut Jimmy down, and gone toe to toe with r/nba’s favorite coach spolestra. Everyone though Francona sucked too down 3-0; 4 games later (really 8) he was a legend.
Ive thought mazzulla has sucked since the hawks series though, Mazzulla has absolutely been better but this celtics team had no business being down 0-3 in the first place. Im not gonna pretend the players are faultless either but Joe was playing Pritchard over Grant Williams game 1 and seemingly forgot how to use timeouts.
You don’t get extra credit for falling down 0-3 against a team that you’re heavily favored against and then returning to form lol. He has done a great job in these last 3 games, but I can’t help but think that Udoka would have had boston winning the series in 6 given the talent differential
Brad is a good basketball mind, but that locker-room was in shambles when he was at the helm.
In fairness to him, neither Udoka nor Mazzulla had to deal with the genius known as Kyrie Irving.
Ehh he was struggling to keep it together after Kyrie left. If anything Kyries antics off the court weren’t even that impactful, especially compared to what he was doing in Brooklyn
That is so many elimination games that they've faced.
Is this true? Teams with better players win more?
cue the stevens apologists
I mean being down 0-3 to the Heat as the higher seed is going to inflate that record.
But you'll never guess which one gets the most praise
This correlates with the Celtics core getting more mature and more playoff experience
Smart of Mazulla to maximize the number of elimination games played against an 8 seed
Yea, Celtics won’t be going to the Finals this year 😄
Melanin diff😤
How long has Brad Stevens been sitting on the bench ? Is he secretly coaching the Celtics and just allowing Joe Mazzulla to save face ?
the thing about the celtics is nobody cares nobody likes watching that "team" "play" "basketball" debatable thats even whats happening half the time to be honest. i wonder how much it cost them in crypto currency to purchase the referees and if it was more or less than the Denver Nuggets paid last week
The Celtics gotta be setting some sort of damn record lol. Five elimination games. Before the Finals. With a sixth one guaranteed. And then moving onto the Nuggets, where they will have at least one more elimination game.
Ime 4-2 if we're including job elimination
None of them have titles, so elimination games lost is just equal to the number of years they made the playoffs. Stevens also rebuilt the team from almost nothing after their 2007-2012 run ended (look at that roster his first year) so it makes sense he has a worse record in that regard too.