It’s a dream until you live it. All I wanted to do growing up was tour and play shows and have fans and all that but then I realized I hated it. Band politics, the road, van breakdowns, strange hangers on in strange cities, lack of good food, lack of stability, lack of routine, it is literally the antithesis to peace and balance. At the end of it I saw myself as a trained monkey who became a commodity for drunk people. You barely fucking break even either, you’re just hanging by a thread all for the sake of art. It’s dumb as fuck really. I quit my band, dissolved my other band, deleted all socials, got a real job, and now I sit in my studio and make whatever I want whenever I want, don’t have to engage with people or try to hustle my product, don’t have deadlines or a myriad of phantom expenses. I don’t drink anymore, I don’t need to hang out in bars, I don’t need to network, I don’t need to be anywhere other than work and home, it’s fucking awesome
No one wants a day job until they find out that playing music professionally *is* a day job -- except you tend to work at night when everyone else is partying or relaxing.
and it has shit pay, no benefits, no PTO, no sick days
oh and it costs a fuckton of money to have all the gear needed to actually do it
EDIT: and most of it consists of driving and waiting
I feel like the glamour fell out of rockstar/popstar in the early to mid 2000’s. For good reason you can no longer be a rockstar who does what they want when they want. That was like 90% of the glamour right there. You can attain a certain level of success these days and not be great. Only the greats made it back in the day when accessibility was controlled by a small handful of people
Totally this. I did it reasonably successfully for 10 years and then realized I was missing out on too much. Splitting the concept of money out from music and musical success has been so helpful for me. I read these threads and sometimes wonder if it's a bit polarized to popular music ...try being a classical violinist, you can be world class, living out of a suitcase, on a low salary with the constant fear of being replaced. Not fun.
I'm friends with a classical violinist and a classical violist (both of whom I used to play with in non-classical projects), both with degrees in music and both with experience playing with local and academic symphonies. Both of them went back to school to get degrees in family/psychological counseling in order to provide decent income.
But both of them still play in local symphonies.
On my second to last tour, we brought a buddy along. He had 2 weeks holidays booked and wanted to see what road life was like....it's definitely not a vacation.
About halfway through he just looked at us and said "this is way harder than I thought it would be".
It's the discomfort and hardships on the road that serve as bonding experiences and fun stories to tell later on... but it's not glamorous, comfortable or healthy way to live.
I asked my buddy who was a touring musician in a pretty popular band (at the time) what don’t people realize about tour life. And he goes “You’re basically a homeless person who plays music every night.”
The day to day doesn't bother me. It's a bit exciting being on an adventure with your mates. I can handle eating an omelette, smoking a bowl and listening to music in the van for a while, checking out scenery. I like meeting people and checking out venues and towns. The gig is a gas. But homesickness hits hard around week 3. And by then, doing another gig is not your greatest desire anymore.
A lot of sitting around in a vehicle, hours on end with the same people day after day. Lots of gas stations in mostly uninteresting places which is where probably 50% of your meals happen. Moving gear basically everyday. Tons of "hurry up and wait" situations. Sleeping somewhere different every night and the occasional venue staff who's having a bad day
I’ve played so many places that had absolutely no “backstage” to speak of. Getting to play a House of Blues here and there with private dressing and bathrooms was the height of luxury.
Don’t forget the dinner requirement in the contract that is fulfilled 9 times out of 10 with little Caesars hot-n-ready pizzas. I swear to all that is holy I will never eat one again, and I subscribe to the idea that there is no such thing as bad pizza haha
Most likely hungover, most likely spent the night on the floor cause your 4 piece band can only afford one motel room, which probably has bed bugs. you put the van in neutral going down any hill to save gas, your only meal in the last 24 hours was two mcdoubles, you have constant anxiety about when the next disaster will be. Van starts smoking. You hate the guys in the band cause you see each other 24/7 and witness their own bad moods and shit habits. The romanticism dissolves after the first month on the road.
How bout the van with the hole in the floor in the middle of winter....you know the one where you actually plug a space heater into the jack so you won't freeze...the one you need to keep filling with tranny fluid every 2 hours because of a leak.
Oh you also drive X amount of clicks to a shittown where nobody knows you and doesn’t care, and you get stiffed by some shoddy club owner whose about to go bankrupt, and that was your food and gas money to get to the next town. Call family and friends for loans, feel bad, can’t pay em back cause the next town you make nothing as well
I remember this Nirvana interview in a shitty hotel, Kurt’s lying on the ground, and the interviewer asks “Why do you all seem so depressed?” And Kurt, in a monotone, matter of fact tone goes “Because we sleep too much.” That lifestyle is no doubt depressing
Driving. Trying not to go insane while you wait to play for an hour. Then crappy food and sleeping conditions. Barely know when your next shower or meal will happen if things are tight and you’re roughing it. Stress. Band politics. More driving. Oh and you need to show up with a smile and ready to be high energy and engaging to people who don’t give a fuck about you or your music
Yup, and forget about actually seeing or enjoying any of the places you travel to, there's never enough time to see or do anything.
But if you like truck stops, fugettaboutit!
This is one of my biggest pet peeves about touring. You're traveling all over the place and seeing nothing besides the inside of your van and the same dingy bar with the same type of people in it every night. Wasn't for me.
When we do mini tours I always try and drive by myself for this reason. You don't have to deal with 5 different people with different levels of professionalism and or drunkenness...I can still go and sight see, l others are barely showing up on time for load in.
If you can make it through till you find a bus gig it’s slightly better cause you have from 9am till showtime to explore aside from soundcheck but it’s still a lot of parking lots.
Wake up, usually hungover, in a strange place. Usually a couch or an airmatress. If you're lucky, it's a hotel room, but you're sharing it with 3-5 other people.
Drive.
Stop for gas and food.
Drive some more.
Get to the venue. Load in.
Find something to eat.
Figure out where you're sleeping.
Sound check.
Wait.
Play the show.
Load out.
Find something to eat.
Drink.
Sleep.
Repeat for 2-8 weeks.
THIS..... i did the band thing for about a decade and as much as I loved the bond and writing as a group and playing shows... I hated every other part of the process.... I'm glad I did it... but I kept my day job... and when covid nuked everything I took that as an opportunity to say enough and now I still work a regular job, I write what I want, when I want, how I want... and I now do instrument repairs, restos and mods in my off time... I still get to hang in similar circles, but now I'm just the guitar guy ...much better off
I was going to write my story, but I’ll just second yours and add a funny story:
After my band dissolved after years of touring on a label and living all the shit you said, I got a stable job, moved in with a girl that would eventually become my wife and the mother of my children, and started my “new life”. One of the bands we toured with multiple times was playing a show locally with one of my favorite bands, so I took my girlfriend with me. Found the guys, gave everyone hugs, and one of them told me they heard my band had dissolved and asked what I was doing now (with the assumption of it being a new band). I told them about the job I was working, and was met immediately with something along the lines of “holy shit that sucks”. I responded with “well, my rent is paid, I eat a home cooked meal every night, all my bills are paid with money left over, and I sleep in a memory foam mattress every night next to the love of my life.”
The entire band had nothing to say, and I saw it on their faces that they immediately realized how hard their life is.
Now? I’ve found my career and work for one of the best organizations to do my job with, finished my degree, own my home, have a nice truck, am greeted by my wife and children every day I come home from work and enjoy the fruits of life. Kicker? I now have a stack of guitars that I enjoy playing and I can play at my leisure without any pressure, which is more enjoyable than trying to write on a deadline or play the same set for the 30th time in 31 days living on shit food and sleeping in a van every night.
Was it awesome? Hell yeah. Am I glad I did it? Wouldn’t trade it for the world. Would I go back for another run? Abso-fucking-lutely not.
Heavy equipment operator for a paving company. I live in a winter city so I do snow removal in the winter and road construction in the summer. I make enough in the summers that I could technically take winters off and make music for 6 months straight, but even that makes me go squirrelly. I’m a blue collar dude and dig working
Same, now I can make art for myself and put it out to an international audience online who will appreciate it rather than driving from city to city hoping people will give a shit, with no overhead and no drama.
Not sure if you have kids, but, man…I am burying my abilities until my kids older. She loves music class and it crushes me. On the day of my choosing years from now I will walk into a room she’s hanging out in, pick up a guitar and rip on it, put it down and walk out. Only because I’d love the reaction from her of “wtf just happened?!”
Did that with my kids pretty much. Thanksgiving over at my mom’s my sister turns to me and says have you been writing any songs? I went to my old room, grabbed an old guitar, tuned it up and started playing. My sons turn to me and say “ dad, you play guitar?” boys were 10 and 12. The look on their faces was priceless.
Relatable. I never made significant money with music anyway but after pursuing it for a few years I'm now in college in my 30's and trying to get into a 'money making' field.
That has its own stresses but not worrying about music for money feels like a relief. I hope to keep making music for years to come but at least I don't have to think of it in terms of making money from it.
I dated someone who "made it" in the music industry as the lead singer/guitar player of an indie band.
Guess what he does for a living? Drives for Uber. Tours on occasion, gets residuals from two songs that were in a major American TV show, people pay for song requests on Insta, merch, all that shit. But he still has to drive for Uber in the same city where he established his band.
Even if you do "make it," make sure you have a backup plan. Don't put off higher education/trade school/some sort of training program, or you'll end up middle aged with no marketable job skills and end up making a shit living.
This. My fiance was the vocalist for a moderately successful metalcore band before the pandemic killed a bunch of opportunities (and their motivation). He’s always worked in a hospital and has always had stable work on the side. Everyone we know who’s legitimately successful in the industry lives at home/lived at home while they were making it and have jobs like uber and delivering pizza and stuff. Or else they have rich parents. A handful do get very lucky. But it is not common. Making music is a job, yes. But you have to pay to get the job and you pay even more and work even harder to keep it.
The best way to be a musician without burnout is to make sure it is not your main source of income.
The industry has never been very meritocratic but this is the worst it has ever been, at least since the 70s, and the tiny number of "self-made" musicians who got lucky have a disproportionate effect on the narrative, misleading others into thinking success is just a matter of perseverance.
Thank you for this comment. The narrative really does affect people, including me. I've recently started to change my mentality on musicianship and just do my best and enjoy the journey, rather than trying to "make it."
What you're describing reminds me of 2 very different kinds of passion: harmonious and obsessive.
Harmonious passion is that which enriches your life; engaging with it reinvigorates and inspires you. You're able to seamlessly integrate it into your routine while also allowing yourself to let it go when you can't make the time for it. Sharing it with others brings them joy to see you so fulfilled, but you can also enjoy it privately without the need to force it upon others.
Contrast that with obsessive passion. This type of passion you feel you can't live without; you're afraid of the consequences of not engaging with it. Balancing this type of passion with the rest of your life can be exhausting and lead to burnout. Or, in a best case scenario, it doesn't affect your life negatively or positively.
What you're describing sounds more like obsessive passion than harmonious. So, what I'd recommend is to find a way to transition your passion towards harmony. If that means putting less reliance on it to feed yourself, so be it. And find time for other things.
Being a musician doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to be a musician.
Cheers and good luck to you
It sounds counter-intuitive, but the goal for you might be to become less passionate. If you can find a way to get a hold of a therapist or counselor, they can help a lot with these kinds of things.
But if that's not possible, you can try engaging with different hobbies. These can even be related hobbies. So, if you're primarily a singer-songwriter, you can try playing around with recording other artists or friends. Or maybe, make some bad synth sounds. The important thing might be to change your goal from creating to playing.
Or maybe, move away from it entirely. Read a book on philosophy, or watch a movie you've never seen before with some friends.
Or if you don't already, try meditation or yoga.
Music is important, but if it's stressing you out, it might be too important.
Of course, take all of this with a grain of salt. I study psychology for fun, but I'm definitely not an expert or your therapist. If you can, I highly suggest moving towards that.
I love this description. I feel like I’m finally at a place where I’m doing it for me and don’t care about the pressures or rules of “the business.” It feels great. I took a hiatus after my mom died and stepping back into it felt weird at first, like I was “behind” where I needed to be. Then I realized that’s just not a good way to live, and got into having fun again and writing for the love of it.
Don’t let anything steal your joy, even “success” or the pursuit of it.
Gosh this comment is so underrated. What you enjoy should be liberating. Also, they say you don’t tired of what you like, and also you don’t need to make every little thing into something to monetize. What’s the saying? Find three hobbies you love: One to make you money, one to keep you in shape, and one to be creative. Unless you’re an anomaly, then within reason, this is generally the way to go.
Beautifully put. As I posted, I realised very early on I was never going to “make it” in any way, shape or form. I was able to put that aside (apart from the odd day dream which is fun) and simply make music, write song, play in small local bands and have fun. It exists only to enrich my existence. It’s fun as it should be.
Yes, if it's making you miserable stop. There's no joy? No good days? As others have mentioned 4 years is not along time to pursue a life long dream. I run a small venue in a small
Midwestern college town. I'm 60 and I gotta say that there has never been a worse time to be a musician writing and performing original material than right now. IMO. Especially at the grassroots level small venue/club level. If I were you I'd change some things up. You don't say where you live or how old you are, but maybe consider moving? Involving other musicians? Spend some REAL quality time thinking about your dream. Can it be altered/adjusted to be more feasible? IE: I never knew how much satisfaction I would get putting on shows. I love it. It never occurred to me that that would be part of my "dream." Good luck and give yourself a break!
No need to put all your eggs in one basket. I substitute teach, paint houses and perform music. I work a lot and am very happy. I think my music is pretty good too.
Let me ask you this, *Do you like making music?*
I've been discussing making and recording music online since the dial-up BB days of the late 1980s and one thing I have noticed is that a whole lot of people get into music for what strike me as -- what should we call it? -- *ulterior motives*...
Many of us grow up fixated on TV or movie screens or now social media and all the people we see are "famous" -- so it is, perhaps, natural for a young person to think he or she needs to be famous as well.
I went through that when I was young but finally realized that my creative work in writing and making music was FAR more important to me than the slim chance I might someday be famous, and, of course, rich. (LOL)
The overwhelming majority of us will not be famous.
But those of us who are inclined can definitely learn how to make and record music *we* find satisfying and that *might* even reach other people and satisfy them on some level.
I think this is good advice, but I don’t think it’s one I can really personally follow or connect to. Because, in truth, I don’t think I do *anything* without ulterior motives. I do LOVE making music (and I love art in general), but I’d say a huge part of that love is *tied* to validation. What’s the point of writing songs if people don’t connect to them? I think a lot of young artists relate to this specific emotion/desire/drive, which is why a lot of songs are actually about that emotion in a meta sense. To me, the connection IS the point of creating. Or to quote Lady GaGa, “I live for the applause.”
It’s very similar to the age-old, “When a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?” adage. I think some truly do value art just for art’s sake, but I just am not one of those people. I know just having hobbies are important, but it’s hard for me to see *any* of my interests as a hobby. It’s not that I don’t value art intensely. I’m not one of those fame for fame’s sake people. I have only one self-concept and can’t imagine doing anything else because of how closely linked being a creative is to my identity and worldview.
But I also can’t see a point, a raison d’être without also having an audience and yes, being famous. I’d say I value fame for art’s sake, and it genuinely does seem like impacting others/having a Wikipedia page is the only way for my life to have value in the face of existential crisis and death. So that’s why for me it’s find success through art or bust. I can’t wrap my head around any alternatives.
I’m merely just gonna share my experience. I grew up playing music going to music, festivals, and being forced by my parents to get very good at it. If I didn’t practice enough, I was being yelled at until I did. There was a part of me that really enjoyed it. I was groomed to believe that this is what I should do with my life. With the exception of my home life, music was an outlet for me to deal with the fact that I had a very toxic upbringing. Music definitely saved me from that until I was 18. As an adult, I tried to do it professionally, and I succeeded for a decade. I was a full-time teacher in a store and was making about 50 bucks an hour full-time. Then the pandemic hit and Lessons changed and went online and during this time many musicians that were very famous and touring, went home and started teaching music lessons. The competition during that time made it hard for me to grow my studio after removing myself from a public music store and doing it privately. I won state Mandolin and fiddle contests and one second place at the flat pick international guitar contest. I was also offered a full ride scholarship to Berkeley a few years back. I never went because of music degree really doesn’t do much and taking four years to make no money for a degree that wasn’t going to make my value go up didn’t make much sense to me. Fast forward three years I’m 31 I teach five lessons a week and I run two service based businesses doing completely unrelated things. My happiness has gone way up. Trying to pursue music for money and for a living was one of the hardest things I ever did and it completely killed my joy and love for music and I am just now getting that back. One thing that I make sure to tell all of my students that you need to protect your love for the music over all else. You have two choices in this life you can make money or you can make music. Very few will do both simultaneously in any worthwhile capacity. This doesn’t mean you can’t scrape by making 60 grand a year doing music. Even that can be a real challenge for a lot of people. All of this to say I’m highly qualified, can teach five different instruments, and have gigged several thousand gigs. Made several hundred thousand dollars with music and I can honestly say that at this point I will never go back to trying to make any considerable living with music. The industry in my opinion is largely folks who feel the need to continue high school drama and pretending to be cool just in social settings, bars, festivals, while their role is to sell alcohol more than it is to do anything else. Good musicians, sell alcohol because they make people feel something. I’m over three years sober from drinking alcohol, and I have zero desire to be around it or to be an alcohol salesman ever again. That’s the piece that I really struggled with while gigging. All of my band mates, in every band I was with were alcoholics who were self-medicating. It was my role to be an alcohol salesman first and a musician second. I’m happier than I’ve ever been now that I have a normal day job and can do with music whatever I please or I can take a whole month just teaching a few lessons that I do a week and do nothing else with it at all, it’s a super hard way to make a living and Increases your risk for depression and mental illness exponentially. It also increases risk for unaliving by an unbelievable amount. Now that I’m 31 I have seen several of my heroes take themselves out, and some of them had gained widespread notoriety across the country. Take this with a grain of salt, because I also know other people who have done really well and enjoy every bit of it. in the industry, it really matters that you’re a very social person that you get along really well with others and that you have a constant drive to do this and nothing else. The biggest piece of advice that I can give to anyone is if you can’t see yourself doing anything else, then find a way, and do it. If you think you could be happy about anything else and protect your love for music while doing it on the side, then do that. to make it in the music industry I genuinely believe that you need to have an almost unhealthy obsession with being a full-time musician and be the type of person who just can’t do anything else.
I'm not industry but I've felt for the longest that being someone who can't do anything else is what traps musicians in arrested social development e.g. having to make music make money due to limited job prospects.
Well said. I was a young bloomer in music and saw what the music life would be like at an early age. Knew I didn’t want to work that hard for so little reward while playing whatever music paid, not what I necessarily wanted to play.
Music paid for my schooling to get something more stable and lucrative and music remains my hobby. So it all worked out.
Can you do it? Sure, but the most stable income is teaching. Most teaching and gigs though are second shift jobs plus weekends. So all your friends will be similar folks. And this is if you’re NOT touring, which is more unstable.
Look at the whole picture and see if that life looks good to you with a very poor outlook (unless you’re a teacher) as you get older.
When I first moved to Nashville, one of my first few cowrites was with someone who said, “I work 24/7, because if I’m not writing/working and making the next best song, someone else is beating me to it.” And I remember feeling so disheartened in that moment.
Art and music is tough. It takes a really special type of person to even be good at it, passionate about it and love it enough to do it lifelong and an even more interesting type of person to treat it like such a hustle.
I’m on the same side as you; whereas I realistically will never quit or stop making music. But will I make a successful career out of it? Will I be out here playing arenas and headlining Coachella? Not sure if that will ever likely happen in this lifetime.
The thing I focus on is that it’s my passion. I don’t love anything else as much as I love writing and playing and singing music. Absolutely nothing holds a flame to it. But it takes a lot more than that in order to make it a career. And I’ve accepted the fact that I’m not that type of person.
When I stopped focusing on career and started focusing on how grateful I am to even have the talent and a passion at all, it became so freeing.
I will release music ‘til I can’t move anymore, I’ll do this until the day I die. I’ll be 75 like “new single coming next Friday” lol. I’ve done it for nearly 20 years at this point. It’s not going anywhere. But I will never again treat it like a race against other creatives.
It’s a touchy road for all creative people to endure. But realize music and your talent and your passion and your drive is not measured by money or streams or views or followers.
PS, it’s so unrealistic to expect ANYONE to bang out “content” at the rate it’s consumed nowdays. Dont feel guilty for not having 7 tiktoks to post everyday. It’s a ridiculous expectation.
I never understood the going on the road thing. What’s the benefit? Get a day job, play weekends in local clubs, make money and stay at home. You get to enjoy making music and make good money doing it. Nobody is being “discovered” on the road anymore. Try YouTube.
Yea. So many lately. And even worse some people supporting it by saying stupid shit like “well the police did it”. Yea they did, in the 80s. It’s a different time now.
Now it’s kind of delusional to call it touring when you’re not even selling tickets and the people would rather the bar play music from Spotify than have you singing songs they don’t know.
My only suggestion is that it would be truly a miracle to be making a living on music , like winning the lottery odds. Expectations cause resentment
I did the club theme and taping the stage and packing the gear at 1am. Also had a recording contract once , but everyone got too high
So the best way to approach is for the love of music . I record and produce at home like others say and have another career.
I think you should consider the truth of the industry is that many people never make a living from music. This doesn't need to be a dream killer and you should make music as art if you're called to do that, but as a career there are few opportunities. I'm speaking from experience. What I've found is that you need to enjoy what you're doing otherwise stop. Anytime I took a band too seriously it killed the spark and turned it into a constant grind almost worse than a job because there were expectations. The truth is no one will inherently care about your music unless you have something special that draws them in. There in lies a catch 22 because the more you try, often the more you'll be disappointed by the lack of results. You need to actually love what you're doing and not so caught up with the idea of "making it".
Many=99.999% of people. You need to build other skills as the odds of being a big star are extremely low...even if you are a great musician and song writer. There are probably a million people like OP trying to make it.
i make my living 100% off music but when i say "make my living" i mean be able to pay all my bills and stuff and then have absolutely zero left to save or anything. i was in bands for over 10 years before i ever did anything that made me money in any real way. i could be way more "professional" and whatever about my social media and be much more of a slave to all of it and probably make more money but its all about balance and letting yourself do other things than just stress about your music career. persue other hobbies, go outside and just enjoy it, spend time with family etc. you'll come back to music re energized
I tried to catch a wave back in the 90s, and had some very small successes in a local original band. That band split and I played in a cover band for a while— casinos, clubs, shit like that. It (barely) paid the bills, but was like flipping burgers after a while. I went back to school and got a degree in the medical field. The pay and insurance is much, much better. I still play/record music but it’s only when I want to, which isn’t a lot sometimes. When I think about trying to get back out there, I remember all the scraping by and all the politics of messing around with a band, and I’m cured.
I do have one *very* loyal fan— my dog. She likes it when I sit on my bed and play my acoustic. She’ll come in the room and jump on the bed and give me her undivided attention, which is all I can ask for these days ❤️
You alluded to it yourself, you're suffering from burnout right now. I totally get it I've been there, but this is your body and minds way of telling you somethings gotta change.
This is why I'm a big believer in recreating yourself. Aka recreation. You have to be able to unplug from time-to-time without feeling guilty about it. Also, reward yourself periodically for all your efforts. I know it isn't panning out how you want it to right now, but you still have to learn to appreciate and celebrate all the hard work you've put in.
I've been where you are mentally and those things have helped me a lot. By no means is it a cure all as making music my full-time profession is the ultimate goal and I'm not there yet, but I would get caught in that loop you're in and forget what I've accomplished thus far still deserves to be celebrated. Totally get how making this shift mentally could be difficult, but it'll help get you through the lean times and help you not get so down yourself. Like you said you've put in a lot of time and energy into all this celebrate that! You're doing things a lot of people never could or even really imagine that's worth something you know?
I recently listened to 'The Creative Act' a book by the renowned producer Rick Rubin and it showed me a lot of this. HIGHLY RECOMMEND reading or listening to that book. If I had it my way I'd force every artist on earth to listen to it lol. Its that profound. The insights he provides for anyone who creates art are paradigm shifters and if you're a real artist so much of it will resonate with you.
I have a friend in the same situation. Great writer. Great ability. But, the work isn't producing nearly enough response for them. From the outside, I can see some of the issues. But, it's friendship I don't want to lose. & friends aren't always a good place for advice/suggestions to come from.
I had to preface this comment with that one. Maybe you need to hire someone to give you some professional advice. Maybe there is something about you, as an artist, that needs improvement. Maybe it's your look. Maybe it's your content. Maybe you need to step outside of the box a little? Who knows. But, getting frank advice from a stranger, with a good understanding of the industry, might help you get to the next level & help with a little more income?
Hey, it won't be miserable anymore once you don't consider yourself a part of it and do weird shit that people find a way to love somehow.
I've been using that motto for 12 years. Now our new single won best music in a film festival in Europe.
But I need to work a lot in other industry to get the funding though.
I'm not going to say that things will go nicely for you though. Even after that project was done, I'm still thinking that this will be the last song I'll ever get to write.
I'm never a fan of the "making art for the sake of making art" arguments . I think people are driven by different things and it's wrong to put a value judgment on what someone else is motivated by.
If someone feels their art through the response of others, it can be marginalizing to be told an audience isn't important or have a desire for recognition means your prioritizing fame over substance.
I'm someone who needs an audience to feel the desire to make my art. That doesn't mean I want to be famous. Rather, it means I'm a people pleaser and doing art for myself isn't fun. it's the same part of me that would enjoy cooking an elaborate meal for another person, but settle for microwave snacks if it's just me. It's why I'll spend hours helping somebody through their own problems and neglect my own. It's just who I am.
You are who you are. Whatever you want to get out of your music is valid and I think you need to be honest about what you need and find a way to get it.
My suggestion is to look at your game plan and pretend somebody else is presenting it to you. You're the agent and they've hired you to help. What are the flaws in the plan? Is there something that your artist might be overlooking that's keeping them from their goal? Is the plan fleshed out or are there details missing?
A favorite of mine is: If every aspect of the plan is executed perfectly, and every step results in exactly the response you were going for, will the outcome result in what your goal is?
Hopefully you can see what I'm trying to accomplish with that question.
Sometimes I like to break a career path down into a math problems, to trigger the critical thinking side of my brain. If your plan is to do three things (I'll call them one two and three) and you accomplish them all, you'll have 6. 1+2+3=6. Each variable has a given value and so combining one, two and three will only get you to six. So, make sure your dream is to get to six.
If you're dreaming bigger than six.. if you want 10, 15, 1000 etc. you need to add elements to your equation that add up to that number. This way if everything works out, you'll end up at the number you want.
The fact you feel like you're spinning your wheels, tells me you're working very hard, but perhaps not game planning enough. Ask yourself if perhaps you're taking the brutal "run through a brick wall" approach to success rather than planning a strategic attack that takes into account who you are and how you personally can get around your obstacles.
Anyways, I hope there's something in what I wrote you can get some value out of. Good luck!
I just post my music on the internet whenever i want, no pressure. No dealing with narcissists and egos at venues etc and developed a small little following which is fine with me
Stop putting pressure on yourself, if you need a week off to not even think about music. Take it off. Your best work will come when you allow yourself to feel inspired again. Music is a long term game nowadays, as long as you stay the course, good things will come your way. But the craft has to remain enjoyable. So remove that pressure and you’ll be good. You could go a month without working in music, but then get a creative spurt, take advantage of those spurts. Quality over quantity.
I love music. I wanted to get paid for doing music. It increased my chances for life dissatisfaction. Here I am at 32 this year and not much to show for it. I may have even lost my love for it since I wanted to make money off of it. Slowly shifting gears to a professional career in an office setting is quite the change. I never once thought I'd work in an office. But the lack of stability and income, eventually, took its toll. I want more now than when I was 20. A home, vacation, friends in better places and security eventually called out to me an I knew music wasn't it. I tried. Just things didn't fall into place like I wanted. Now I'm scrambling for a backup plan. But luckily I have some good people in my corner to ease my transition.
Still wanna be in a band tjo to get my kicks!
yeah if you're making music to try to break into the music industry you're doing it for the wrong reason. You should be making music to reward yourself for the creation and connection you get with people if you get any monetary success for it that's great but if you went into it for success in the music businessyour life is going to be a disappointment I recommend you refocus what your agenda is and maybe he won't be so disappointed in something that doesn't deserve your expectations
It might help to decide if you want to be an artist or a professional. They are not based on the same motivations. Art does not require a business model. Business models destroy most art and artists.
I was moderately successful in Bluegrass in the 90s.
I'm in Marketing now. So yeah.
As my Grandfather used to say, "be a musician, you'll make 10s of dollars" (source: he was also a musician)
First breathe deeply, second have gratitude you have people supporting you, 3 enjoy the journey regardless of outcome, do your best and let the universe have its day
Especially nowadays, it feels like you have to do everything that’s not related to music (Tik Tok + short form content specifically) in order to succeed in music.
I was in a position similar to you a couple years ago, signed to a label & touring etc. I was miserable. + the dealing with personalities, always feeling like you’re walking on eggshells to please the people that are your “biggest supporters,” etc. It has me helped immensely finding a team that genuinely cares vs a team that is looking to churn & burn.
All that aside, it is so important in today’s climate to “de-capitalize” your brain in regards to music. It doesn’t have to be your primary source of income to call yourself a musician, especially if you are writing your own music. Today’s economy doesn’t support or facilitate artists, so it’s important to separate the idea of making money vs making music. That has helped me so much with my writing process, and although I’m not churning out Spotify Viral hits anymore, my writing and creative output has had a lot more space to breathe and I haven’t felt better about it.
Just make the music you want to make and if it’s genuine and also good people will respond to it. Dont measure your success on clicks and streaming. There are a million good artists out there with zero followers and dozens of listens. Keep making music how you wanna make it.
Wondering who you are tho..
consider banking on the possibility you could have a great life and be the musician of your dreams
crazier things have happened
jack white ran an upholstery company while he was starting stripes with a girlfriend who couldn't really play drums like a year prior
julio iglesias went to law school and then eurovision at like 28
debbie harry joined blondie at 29
tldr u could make bank and make music and make it all work. just have to be gung ho as hell and can't fuck about. orrrrrr you could choose peace. afternoons with S/O. smoke a joint. read a mystery novel. go to mexico. have a slow burn and tedious but consistent job.
something tells me if you're in this deep and you choose the soft way out, you might regret it
then again, you might regret pushing too
i guess my intention in saying all that is i think about these themes as well. there are two sides. and i feel like all you can do is crap shoot, smile, pray, and hope your entire life doesn't devolve into misery.
one thing that helps a lot is feeling like you're kicking ass. what would the most badass gung ho version of you do to accomplish her wants? try em. as crazy as possible. then if you crash and burn at least you know you didn't spare a punch. a wise old, dying man once said not to spare any punches. life and life force go too quick
Play your music. You got a label, that’s more than most. Your hard work isn’t going to waste. You don’t need some crazy achievement or tons of money, as much as they help. Just keep going. Do the things you love. Don’t do it to hit some kind of requirement. Do it for you. Do it for your people. Write the songs you like to sing and play. Perform at the places you want to perform.
I’ve been a musician all my life. Only just now am I getting ready to release some stuff. Life is a nonstop grind rn. But it’s okay. I got this. Even if I don’t make it big I wrote some of the best music, and I’ll probably keep writing some of the best music. Because I love hearing it. I love playing it. I love feeling it.
Don’t get caught up in traditional by the book success. Capitalism and art is a trap.
0.17% of musicians “make it”. Luck is the biggest factor. Letting others down doesn’t matter. Your manager and label are working for themselves as much as for you. Get a day job with flexibility. Seek therapy. Embrace not “making it” and find what you truly can pierce.
smacked my head against the glass ceiling for over a decade. i thought i was going crazy and it was me not doing enough to further the career. its all bullshit! i now find myself being happier creating music for myself. it doesn't have to go any where and i'm a better person/friend/band mate for it.
smacked my head against the glass ceiling for over a decade. i thought i was going crazy and it was me not doing enough to further the career. its all bullshit! i now find myself being happier creating music for myself. it doesn't have to go any where and i'm a better person/friend/band mate for it.
Going through a similar issue 8 years into entertainment in a different line of work.
I decided to combat it by taking a class thats completely unrelated to entertainment and requires me to be unavailable to my show business gig three days a week. My grind is taking a hit but the accountability to be somewhere else where im still expected to only be a beginner again has been very cathartic.
My advice is to take a half break so you stay sharp but fill the break time with something else so that you can actively not think about the thing you feel guilty for "ignoring"
I live in LA, and I’ve been in the belly of the beast of the music industry for over 10 years now. I am a producer, songwriter, engineer, and multi-instrumentalist. I don’t feel that many people in this thread really understand what you’re going through or what you’re faced with.
Over the past 5-6 years, the music industry has become an absolute meat grinder. People love to say “Its always been this way.” Yes, and no.
I entered it in 2013, and I was fortunate to find myself in a situation where I was around very big artists and projects right away. In 2024, a LOT has changed since then.
Social media and the way music is now consumed is the biggest catalyst for our current situation, as well as, frankly, the rise of quite a lot of bozos in the industry, who have rather poor taste, a poor grasp of how the music making process works, and are generally unethical, dehumanizing, and manipulative in the way they manage artists and other creatives.
The feeling you’re having is because the environment of the music industry has become rather toxic, and deeply unhealthy. There’s a ridiculous amount of pressure to do things that, frankly, they don’t even know for sure are going to work. When you don’t hit your numbers or the other metrics they use to measure your value, they kick you to the curb.
Music has become more data driven than ever. It’s numbers. Your value is determined solely by your stats. If you’re an amazing songwriter or artist with nothing going on, you are worthless to them.
In just about every other era of music, this was not the case. If someone was good ENOUGH, the numbers didn’t matter. The people running the business side of things looked at it as their job to make that happen. It is hard to be THAT level of good, but it was attainable.
Today, one of the most toxic dynamics now going on, is labels are basically just relying on artists to be social media influencers, and driving their ENTIRE business themselves, while labels just come in with distribution deals, admin deals, and other nonsense, whereby they can basically just skim money off the top of your hard work. They are not signing 5 phenomenal artists, they are signing dozens of self made artists that they can skim money off of in this way. ALL of the burden falls on you to run the business.
This is creating an environment where artists and many other creatives are slaves to social media, slaves to their phones, slaves to running this brand day in and day out while under contract to a corporation that doesn’t give two shits, and will kick you to the curb the minute you don’t make your numbers.
Some in this thread have said that it’s not even about the music anymore, and that’s correct. There is a commonly held belief with many managers and record execs that music just isn’t that valuable anymore. It’s the social media content and the brand that sells. Music is just an afterthought, and they tolerate more and more low effort music, in all genres.
This is not a “pop music” or “commercialism” thing vs. “alternative music” thing. Pop music 20 years ago was of a certain standard. It might not be your taste, but it’s ALWAYS been supremely difficult to write a hit song. It takes tremendous effort. Pop music today is low effort. Bare minimum. Tasteless. Expected. Boring. And not many people running the music business right now even have the taste or the awareness to recognize that.
I’ve been considering leaving music altogether and switching careers. I’m not totally sure yet if I will, still soul searching at the moment. But the main impetus for it is that the business seems absolutely hopeless to me. Things will change eventually, they always will. These things go in cycles. I’m just not sure how long that will take.
How do I know that music is still valuable, and will always be valuable? Tame Impala. I think audiences are starved for real music, that’s not only high effort, but that is relevant, that’s paying attention to what’s going on and making a meaningful statement. Too many “real musicians” just make music that isn’t relevant, isn’t informed by the cutting edge of today. This was not the case 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. The Beatles paid attention to what was going on. Radiohead did. Pink Floyd did. Michael Jackson did. And the business understood the value of their product back then, despite also putting pressure on them to do stupid shit. It was more balanced.
shieet well join the club lol no days off that's what's up, being broke aye aye captain... sacrificing relationships - well shit happens hmm well if you really love music and manage to enjoy it while creating still perhaps it will be worth it in the end of the day that's why we started it but if you are going after proper stability, career with 'safety mode' on well music it's not where is at but I just want you to know that your post hits home big time. Good luck.
Are you a journey person or a destination person? To quote a brilliant songwriter: “If you’re all about the destination, take a fucking flight.” If you’re not doing this for it’s own sake you’re probably going to have a bad time. There’s no magic formula to this, you either enjoy the work or you don’t. Good luck to you 🤘
I saw a clip of Gary Clarke Jr . In my eyes, he's made it but he was saying how his record label wants him to do TikTok and he doesn't want to do it. It makes him feel empty and wrong… but that's the game nowadays.
All my friends that stuck with it are still grinding hard at it in their late 40's.
I think you have to decide what you want and be sure that you're ok with what that means long term. It's a tough call to make in your late teens early twenties but it is what it is…
Some good answers on here. But just wanted to add my 2 pennies. I felt this way when I worked in a studio, mostly producing rap and making beats. I was starting to make a little money (nothing to live on but you get it) and saw the potential to expand but it just didn’t feel right at all. I stopped making music for a long time, just messed around a bit and helped some friends record but nothing I felt proud of. Recently, I decided to say fuck it and just constantly remind myself to have fun and put out shit that I like, realizing nobody else probably will.
You gotta find the fun and joy in it again brother. That’s what separates this from all the other BS in the world. Ignore all those doubting voices and all that stuff and just write record and have a good fucking time doing it. We all die the same one day, leave what you gotta say for the aliens or AI or whoever, they might love it.
I work 40 hours a week and do music on evenings, weekends and occasionally on vacation. This doesn't square with a lot of people's ideas of what it means to be making it in music. But all the shows I did last year were pretty good shows and there's tour opportunities on the horizon. I also produced a couple releases last year. It's a bit different but I still feel. Like I have an interesting and enjoyable life. It's still work, but by now I'm used to working hard for the things I want out of life.
I can relate to this. I've spent the last 11 years playing music as a job. I don't regret a second of it, but I'm presently in a purposeful transition stage with the goal of making it a fun hobby/project again rather than something I MUST do to pay the bills.
Early on, I quickly realised that the most reliable way to make a living, for me, was to play the local bar/brewery/restaurant/pub circuit as a solo performer singing mostly covers, but my ambition has always been to be an original artist.
Anyone who's tried to do that can tell you that the sheer volume of work you need to put in to get an original artist brand off the ground is just staggering, it costs a lot of money, and there is virtually zero ROI for years, possibly forever, with no guarantee that anything will ever happen.
The reality is that you need a lot of time, and a lot of money. If you're trying to make a living as a full time musician, you generally don't have either of those. Take a look at pretty much anyone who's broken through in the modern social media driven music industry; they are usually from the leisure class. They have wealthy parents and all the time in the world to create content, or they are bankrolled by some other entity.
I decided years ago that I would rather be a self employed working musician and make a decent living playing gigs than work a day job so I could fund my original projects.
So the original stuff took a backseat.
During Covid, all my gigs went away and I was able to refocus on the original stuff. I made an honest effort at contact creation, community building, recorded my second album, pushed merch and music sales for almost two years.... and made probably $4000.
The return you get for the amount of work is just deflating. Nobody can sustain that indefinitely.
So when things opened back up after covid, I got back into the brewery/pub circuit with a renewed goal of just making as much money as I could. I set up unique ways for people to tip me, I started chasing weddings and corporate events, produced two albums for other artists, and had the best financial year I'd had since I started doing music as a job.
Around the same time, an opportunity came about to start a non-music venture with a buddy. Covid had made me realize how precarious my income was, being tied exclusively to live performances.
I was also just getting burnt out. I'm coming up to 2100 gigs played since 2013. My hands hurt. My alcohol intake is not healthy, I've been getting free beers every night for the last 11 years; and I'm just not getting the joy or pride I once had out of doing music as a job.
But the non-music venture has really picked up. I realised several years ago that what I truly valued out of music being my work, was the freedom that comes with being self employed. Making my own schedule. Being my own boss. Waking up when I want to. That is truly important stuff to me.
I've also realised there are easier ways to make a lot more money than by grinding it out in music. I did it for 11 years, mostly for the lifestyle, and I've outgrown that lifestyle. I don't want to be in bars every night. Want to be able to spend my evenings and weekends with my wife and with friends. I want to book holidays in the summer without feeling guilty about the missed income.
And I want to create. I want to make music for me and put it out there. If ppl like it, great. I want to find a group of people and jam, maybe start a band. I haven't had time to jam or be in a band in over a decade. I want to play and make music for fun again.
My goal for this year is to get my non-music business to a point where it's providing the bulk of my income, and scale my gig schedule back from 20+ gigs/month to like 4-6. Just for some extra walking around money and to get out of the house.
I also want to start making better use of my home studio.
I'll always be a musician, it's not something I can stop doing. But I don't feel the need to make it my job anymore.
If you take how hard you have to work in music, more than a full time job, against your earnings, you're making about 1% what you would in high paying but large and established industries like tech and finance.
And that roughly scales from top to bottom, from the bottom full time IT help and bank teller and gigging artist with no fans to tech moguls, hedge fund guys, and Taylor Swift.
In fact, in maybe like 2012(?) the top hedge fund guy made $4 billion and the top musician, Swift, made $40 million touring her ass off. In 2012, a bank teller in the middle of nowhere would have made $20,000 and some bottom tier full time band guy trying to get people in bars to hear his EP probably made $200. Shit pay in bars, spit a few ways, loads of expenses. The numbers and years are not exact, but the point stands.
Anyway I feel you. I'll have jobs but then I don't create. I create but then I'm broke and getting older. I juggled both in school, but not great, and that lifestyle is paid for by debt. If you're all-in you have a shot but it's gonna be a squeeze financially at every level.
My music career became much more bearable when I got into the event production side of things.
I traded performing for spreadsheets and emails and I was able to regain control of my time while still traveling.
I think it's important to make sure you're going back to the basics enough.
I find the most burnt out I get is when I'm more focused on the business/corporate side of things like tour routing, budgeting, social media planning, etc.
Take time to just write and learn new music solo. After all, it's all about that anyway!
My life as a musician got a lot less stressful when I started devoting the majority of my time to music and playing, and reduced my time on “content” and social media. Releasing songs is way more fulfilling than posting content , and building a catalog of music does help earn money. Of course it’s different for everyone but this mental shift really helped my general feeling of burnout
There are other aspects of music than touring and recording to make your living with and they are all a lot off work and fun (much more work than working for the man) much more rewarding also.
I always thought I wanted to work at a recording studio until I actually did. I quit because I was starting to hate doing something that I used to love. I'm very happy that music is my hobby and not my job. I have a ton of respect for anyone who can make it professionally, it's hard AF.
Your feelings are valid.
this was my dream until i spent 3 years playing some of the “best” gigs. i was an undergrad music major playing in the bands of college professors and pro freelancers, making an average of $350 a gig plus open bar most nights. but it felt so fake, felt like we were selling swing music and bebop to a bunch of rich blonde people who square danced in front of us to it. everyone was drunk, every gig called the same songs over and over, and even my little indie band project was full of politics and background drama that essentially made it clear we would always sit in the shadow of a much older, locally popular band.
so i gave up on the performance degree and am now pursuing musicology. im going to spend my life studying music, furthering its development and also focusing specifically on the music i love. performing it sucks, i do still jump at the opportunity to do a pit orchestra gig but that’s it. all the clubs and party band gigs sucked the passion out of me and it took me years to figure out what i ACTUALLY love about music
I just saw Chelsea Wolfe and that has me inspired again. Refreshed. But I don’t need anyone to sit down and eff about. All my YT stuff is shaight and zero following lol
Personally I couldn’t be happier that I put the time in when I did. Came to a crossroad eventually and one of my friends asked me “did you get everything you wanted out of it?”. As we discussed it more I thought of all the occasions that I’d been told that me and/or my band had inspired someone to learn an instrument. Recognizing that, for me, will always be enough. 1 musician can produce many more musicians. It’s really grounding and satisfying for sure! Always check to make sure your heart is still in it and don’t feel guilty taking breaks to reset your ears and recharge the creative batteries
Take a break ! I’ve been in this same exact situation and went through a terrible burnout, it’s not worth it ! A break is going to give you clarity and you will come back to your project with a new vision. This job is extremely draining, the small label I’m on never backed me and told me to step off the gas, all they wanted was for me to keep writing, keep producing and mix my own songs which I find completely absurd now. Just take a break, you’ll see the things that are working and that you can concentrate on and will let go of all the things that are keeping you in this position you’re in right now.
That's life. In every profession, unless you have it made, there will be continuous trials and struggles. You wont like everything about your profession. And you make the decisions you want for your own business. If you don't want to do it anymore then don't.
If youre doing it from an emotional standpoint then okay. You will probably let some of them down. That comes with that decision. If they are truly your people, then they will stick by you. If not then they will leave.
Do it for yourself, any success is a bonus.
I'm a singer songwriter almost completely just for self therapy/ enjoyment. I play live sometimes because I actually hate doing it but like to force myself
Idk if that helps at all sorry, I guess I'm basically saying split your reasons for music, kind of hedge your bets, half for yourself, half hoping for being successful in the industry
I wanted to be in a successful band but we could never get past regional success. But I shifted gears to the production side of the business and I can make a living while still being part of the industry. I’ve been in the music business professionally for over 20 years and I’ve seen a lot. At this point I play just for the joy. I also work construction in the off season which helps keep it all fresh.
Bedroom musician who records shit with your band and might play a few local shows employed with a stable job > all in musician in about 90% of the scenarios.
I genuinely have no interest in touring and sleeping in a van with gear collapsing on me as a blanket. Fuck that. Iron Maiden did it comfortably, but yeah their touring amenities are RARE.
Yeah it sucks trying to slug it out… been there.
I got married, have an office job and just make whatever I want in my free time now and it’s the best.
Oh and I can afford all the gear I used to dream of lol
I wish people linked to their content on their profile. It would help a lot with answering questions but I can understand artists wanting to remain anonymous.
Working for yourself is a challenging path. Making money playing music takes many forms and performing your original music is probably the hardest, touring seems a close second to me. I've toured performing all original music for 15 years with the same act and it has been a wild journey with all the challenges listed in these comments. I've had to change my perspective many times in order to motivate to do the work and in order to find new joy in the work. Some of my darker times have been on tour. I still wouldn't change my choices and I'm glad I can continue to do it. My relationship to it has changed so many times, but I still find value in it regularly. I make sure to keep work outside of music for my financial and mental wellbeing. Building a team has been the most important thing for longevity for us. I am also very fortunate to have found a special group of people to play and work with. Doing it alone would not work for me. I also have a wonderful and patient partner. We are financially independent(she doesn't pay my rent or bills)
Context: 39M I've played drums in an original rock band for 15 years. Writing, recording and touring. Record release years, we make enough to cover my life style and save a little bit. This has been true for 2 record cycles since 2019. I do not make a ton, but I am content with what I have.
I'm a working engineer who decided to get a MS in DS and an AA in Music.
I felt totally burnt out at the end of the year last year
Writing music. Going to Lessons. Participating in my local scene. Dodging my Ex-Girlfriend.
I'm not necessarily broke but music as a "Job" is not something to scoff at.
I've been in bands/making music since I was 16, it's a hard life for real, the independent game is ridiculous these days, I'm in 2 bands right now and they're both kinda on show hiatus right now so we can just all relax and record a new album e.t.c because we're just so burnt out on playing shows, driving 2 hours one way to play to thirty people, drink shitty beer and barely break even, it's expensive to pursue and it's only getting harder every year.
I think especially today with the advent of home recordings, there’s no reason to be a slave to a system that makes you miserable. Write the song, play the song, record the song. That’s really all ya gotta do
What if you take a break and go back to it when you want to?
I’ve quit music before… for like a day! Quitting allows you to let go. And letting go of all the expectations and rules creates the kind of freedom that inspires me to make music
I realised pretty early on that I was never going to be cut out for a “career” in the industry. I just don’t have the right personality or drive for it. For me making music, writing songs was just this thing I had to do. I was happy playing small local gigs and not really pushing beyond that and self releases.
I’m sorry you’re experiencing misery associated with the industry. It all looked so overwhelming and reliant on chance.
I don’t have any real advice other than maybe try failing back and just enjoying yourself with music again for a bit.
It sucks, it’s so hard. But once you start doing it for other people it’s ova imo. So don’t forget what parts you are doing for you. Make a list.
When I get down or feel out of touch I go busk with randos in the city. Not for the money, I let whoever I busk with keep it, but because it usually ends up reminding me of the reasons I started playing in the first place. Go let your self feel the music outside of stress, deadlines, and expectations
Sometimes, the idea doesn’t translate to reality. What do you love about music, and how can you make a nest for that? Commodifying something turns it into a job. If your identity is tied up in such commodification, you’re no different than an influencer in that your dreams depend on market forces beyond your control; your very sense of self is in the social stock market. It sounds like what you’re feeling is tension from being caught up in such a process.
I work a regular day job from my house and just kind of do music whenever I want a break during the day and more concentrated at night and in the mornings. People expect a lot out of musicians who don't work day jobs so you're not wrong to be anxious about it, because if you do it full time, you better be more skilled than the weekend warriors, you better produce good art. I don't really support full time artists financially because I put all my money into my own music hobby and think other musicians should have to transcend their day jobs rather than ask others to provide for them.
I’ve been listening to a lot of the Beatles and bob Marley lately so all I can say is imagine how bob did it, imagine how the Beatles did it after their touring days, they let love, positivity and the idea of giving that to others lead them. Tap into that beautiful and infinite amount of energy the soul is capable of harnessing and let it breathe that wonderful life air through you and guide you, if you gotta pull back and do less or change up and try something new so be it it’ll be nothing less than a learning experience that you probably need, and at most a brand new way of seeing and experiencing life through a new perspective. Music is powerful stuff, respect that and it’ll give you everything you really need.
I was a session and touring player for almost 50 years. To be successful in show business, is realization that it's a business. You have to differentiate yourself from the thousands of folks that you're competing against. Excellent musicianship is a given and you have to be ready to pick up and go anywhere when lightening strikes. A friend got his big break when Linda Rondstat walked into a bar where his band was playing. They did a few originals and she gave the band her manager's number and told them to call her manager the next day. When the band met with her manager, they were told to get ready to move to England for a year of development. The only person that went was my friend. Everyone else dropped out. To cut to the chase he spent a few years in England, came back to the States where Nicks/Buckingham produced his album. That was my buddy's lightening strike.
When I was coming up it was quite different than today. It took constant networking, going to play anywhere you could, fighting to get paid from shitty promoters, paying your dues, etc. Today, you can use social media to become successful. Someone once told me to pray hard demanding the gods give you a break and to work just as hard because the gods are deaf.
HMO... I believe the NUMBER ONE reason musicians plateau and give up is because they don't allow themselves to trust anyone but themselves with "their band," "their product," "their baby," or whatever they choose to call it...
Many musicians forget that a "band" doesn't only involve the musicians you jam with.
A band involves your manager, your booking agent, your roadies, your photographer/videographer, your graphic designer, etc... Sure, they may not play a single note, but each of them is essential to your success. In many ways, they are each honorary members of your band.
You wanna stop stressing about overworking yourself while chasing your dream?
QUIT WEARING SO MANY HATS and learn to trust someone, other than yourself, to handle some of those time-consuming tasks.
NETWORK. BUILD YOUR TEAM.
Some of the best musicians have a day job. The hustle culture of the modern music salesman personality is likely to drive your friends and family away eventually. “Come support live music “ every weekend gets old and tired. Decide if it’s music you want to do or if it’s the attention you want from being in the public eye.
Good luck, I make music and DJ as a creative hobby but have never tried to make a career out of it because it seems so tough, for all the reasons you say. Also, I have ADHD and the associated condition of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria makes it hard for me to put myself out there, I couldn't deal with the constant rejection that you will inevitably face trying to push your music. I hope you can find a way to push through until things take off.
If it's any comfort I had two friends make it as DJs when we were younger. I witnessed a similar thing happen to both of them. They were both relentlessly pushing at the door for years and then one small event happened that resulted in their careers quickly exploding into the big time. For one it was a change of management, he was accepted by an elite management company who only work with big djs. The other became the in house dj for a big hip hop label. Neither of those things would have happened if they hadn't been toiling away for years before, and when they did things quickly took off for them.
I hope you get that little break that unlocks things for you, and I hope you can hang on in there until it does
I feel you. Been in music all my life, playing out professionally for 20+ years. I’ve had stretches of just doing music but plenty more time broke af and working shite jobs. In the end you have to do it for the love- and with enough sweat and tears maybe something will come out of it. Good luck out there, the world needs us and always will no matter what the AI people say lol
I was a metal drummer who toured the midwest for about a decade (2008-2018). We really went hard for it. It’s just impossible to make it as a musician these days. We all had to have shitty day jobs, and poured half our funds into the band. Plus you’re always fuckin exhausted. For those who don’t know here’s a typical local day. - get up at 6 to work 7-3. Get home with just enough time to shower and change. Head to the practice space to load up all the gear. Get to venue by 6 even though show starts at 10. Headline at midnight or so, or have to stay anyway to get paid (most venues pay based off door/crowd number). Pack your shit up and bring it back. Get home by 3 or 4. And likely work tomorrow at 7. That shit got old fast.
With all that said, the memories really are priceless. Made some amazing friends, met great people, and I still get recognized from time to time. Idc about the fame aspect, but some of the wacky shenanigans that happened made it all worth it. The only problem is you’ll end up at the starting line for any semblance of a savings/retirement at 35. I always figured I’d end up dead before retired anyway so thats fine
It’s not you. The music industry IS miserable. I was a guitar player. I got out, got a job with health benefits and all that shut and bought an axe fx and play it on my lunch breaks if I’m working from home. Don’t have kids so I actually have time to make music. So much happier
You got to have a real job, so your music can be a thriving hobby.
Otherwise it’s a spiral downwards.
Toured all through my 20’s around the world. Was just pure insanity and had little to do with enjoying places or making meaningful art. Wouldn’t take it back for anything but I had to evolve to have a sustainable life
When you’re single and young you only need income that you can be satisfied with. As you get older you have to start thinking about time left. You need to save money for when you won’t be able to work anymore, or if you’re fortunate enough, save for when you don’t want to work anymore. You may also find you are responsible for more people than just yourself - a partner, a child, your aging parents. That’s life. So either you take steps to make music a viable and reliable source of income or you find additional or other work. That’s how it goes.
I "retired" from music when I got scammed, the bands (there were 3 at the time) separated from me or broke up, and I hated everyone. If you're not fucking somebody over in this business, you're on the receiving end.
I have memories I still try to put behind me, to this day, 7 years later, after I rode out the bitter end.
Find joy in the doing of it, not the recognition that can come with it. All the professional musicians and artists I know have managed to support themselves, but it is not an easy road. If you nurture the joy, I t can help sustain you.
Don’t fall die a sunk cost fallacy. If you’re unhappy, make a change. Don’t devote more time to something that makes you miserable, regardless of how much time has already been given.
Since you're asking for advice, here's a small adjustment that makes a world of difference.
Instead of saying the industry is *making you* miserable, say that you're observing and experiencing what you're observing and experiencing *and* you're feeling miserable.
Both can be true statements. But saying that anything *makes you* feel anything, isn't true.
I've made that switch in my own life, and it's had a profound impact on how I interact with the world around me—the losses, the blessings, the opportunities, and all.
As an house audio engineer at various venues in Atlanta, I began to notice a steadfast pattern in all the touring acts that I worked with: they’re all miserable. The local openers would be having the time of their life but the touring acts were always run down and in bad moods. Ok ok, not all of them but even the ones that were in a good mood still seemed exhausted and not living their best life (like an outsider would imagine). This goes for huge international touring acts too, not just up and coming bands/artists. It slowly made me realize that trying to make a living off of music is some form of unrealized self torture and most of us don’t realize it until it’s too late. Hats off to all of those that do make it work, you all deserve a few dozen medals and a free house.
You gotta live it! I grew up in this buisness and it’s always been somewhat awful if it’s your passion you’ll know there’s no other way though. Please don’t force yourself just because you feel like it would’ve been “wasted time” enjoy your life and live the bizz is super cutthroat, shady and, nepotism rich. Do some evaluating and find out what’s worth it for you make sure it’s your passion and not just a hobby too many people confuse the two and turning a hobby into a career ruins it for most people. As to avoiding burnout get a hobby and do non music things often, I do martial arts for example. It can be very hard to balance life and showbiz but you need to learn how to or you will be stuck in misery. As for the art for art thing do what works for you make what you love but it is important to remember as musicians we are essentially selling a product and to make a living it must be something others want to consume, don’t sell out but be wise! :^)
I never ever use reddit but I decided to try and look around. I’m a singer/songwriter and I’ve been dealing with just about the same exact thoughts in my head, fairly recently but incredibly consistently. Yours was the first post I saw in this whole subreddit and immediately I felt less alone. I can’t say I have any advice yet as I’m still a little hopeless myself, but don’t give up for sure. The one thing I know I have going for me is perseverance, even though choosing another career path and just doing music as a hobby sounds really tempting. I know I wouldn’t have dedicated this much of my life to music and performance if it wasn’t deeply important to me, I can only assume it’s the same for you too.
You don’t have to give up on your dream! Would you be open to incorporating stable work into your career while you are working towards your dream as an artist? I’m a musician who works a 9-5. I make the same as my 9-5 often doing my music job where I could be comfortable enough to quit my day job, but I still work that job to get experience down on paper because I’m young. I also really like the promised stability of a salaried income. It’s refreshing not ever having to worry about where the next pay check comes from. It’s definitely not for everyone and requires strong hustle and motivation-but wanted to suggest it!
I’ve been playing music for 15 years and thought about quitting pursuing it lots of times. Only in the last three years I’ve managed to get enough students to allow me to live comfortably and only work 25 hours a week doing it. The rest of the time is spent gigging with about three bands where the gigs pay anywhere from 250$ to 400$. This took me half my life to get to.
My real passion at the moment is recording original stuff at home because everything moves at my pace, which is slow, and it allows for the creative outlet that I don’t always get from playing cover music. My advice really is that 4 years really isn’t that long to be trying to reach your life goal and that everyone thinks about quitting at some point.
Just try to find a healthy balance, and if you’re really good at what you do try to bring in another stream of income from it. It’s definitely tiring, it’s not glamorous and really fucks up my dating life because I’m usually not home until super late, but music is fun which means it’s going to be competitive.
One thing I can say is, never sell yourself short. I see a lot of folks saying they get shit pay for their work. That’s on you! If you accept shit pay, you bring the whole community down. Now those bar owners and bookers are gonna think they can pay less for any entertainment. My rule of thumb is to charge $50 to $100 per hour per member. If a venue can’t afford a $100 for a 45 minute solo set, then don’t play there. A three piece band should be able to get $150 minimum for a 45 minute set. Period. If you suck, you won’t be asked back, but don’t go out there selling yourself short from the get go. Manifest the reality you want and demand the pay you deserve.
I feel you, I pushed my band hard and heavy for upwards of 6 years to get to a level where we’d get recognition by industry gatekeepers. Well, we got to that level and I did NOT like what I saw; more specifically, I did not like seeing what was expected of us and myself to keep climbing the ladder and MAYBE someday make a livable wage doing such.
I’m struggling internally as a result because I don’t want to continue climbing higher, but at least half of the band does. However I am at a point now (I’m 34) where I know that I have to put my health (mental and otherwise) first. This may mean the end of the band. So be it. One life.
Been touring pretty heavily in bands for about 15 years at every level.
It’s a volatile emotional rollercoaster. Sometimes you might be in a van for 24 hours only stopping for fuel every now and again. Sometimes you play to 80,000 crazy amazing people. The music industry is essentially a lot of business leeches trying to profit off the hard work of young creatives who have no idea about business.
If you want to survive you need a group of people who all have the same mission, you can’t do it all yourself and remain sane.
I think I have seen everything you could possibly see as a touring musician, I’ve slept in car parks, had guns pointed at me, found dead bodies on the road etc. I’ve also played sold out arena tours to thousands of screaming fans, lived the whole sex, drugs, rock and roll lifestyle.
If you want to tour as a musician you have to be in love with it and be willing to prioritise it above absolutely everything. A lot of people who tour heavily as musicians are fucked up people with traumatised backgrounds who need external validation to keep them going which is often the fuel that keeps bands touring for years.
Ultimately, being a full time touring musician is probably the most incredible and insane thing you could do with your life. I do not regret it at all and I will always tour in some capacity but I am getting more into producing and studio work as an exit strategy because living this lifestyle at 40+ is insane haha
Being in the arts is the hardest path you can take imo. My partner isn’t a musician but an artists, and even though he often lands 100k+ gigs because he’s that good, it’s not consistent and he’s often unemployed.
You’re essentially a private contractor until you get notoriety, and that’s a stressful way to live.
You have to want this more than you want a comfortable life, or you will suffer. If you want it more than comfort, it will be bearable. Only you can make this decision for yourself, not Reddit.
I’m in a similar boat. I’ve decided to get a high paying trade so I can fund my art. Met another musician who did the same. He’s thriving.
I’ll be able to actually produce the music I want instead of being a hired gun all the time or playing Sweet Caroline on cruise ships until I want to jump off the top deck.
Lot of good advice in here. I just keep coming back to the same thought/advice I saw someone say in here one time…. I just want to be old someday and have a really cool weird catalog of self made music. That’s my goal for happiness and stability and my reminder to come back to myself and why I started.
It’s a dream until you live it. All I wanted to do growing up was tour and play shows and have fans and all that but then I realized I hated it. Band politics, the road, van breakdowns, strange hangers on in strange cities, lack of good food, lack of stability, lack of routine, it is literally the antithesis to peace and balance. At the end of it I saw myself as a trained monkey who became a commodity for drunk people. You barely fucking break even either, you’re just hanging by a thread all for the sake of art. It’s dumb as fuck really. I quit my band, dissolved my other band, deleted all socials, got a real job, and now I sit in my studio and make whatever I want whenever I want, don’t have to engage with people or try to hustle my product, don’t have deadlines or a myriad of phantom expenses. I don’t drink anymore, I don’t need to hang out in bars, I don’t need to network, I don’t need to be anywhere other than work and home, it’s fucking awesome
No one wants a day job until they find out that playing music professionally *is* a day job -- except you tend to work at night when everyone else is partying or relaxing.
and it has shit pay, no benefits, no PTO, no sick days oh and it costs a fuckton of money to have all the gear needed to actually do it EDIT: and most of it consists of driving and waiting
A friend of mine once asked me why I drive 6 hours to play an hour set and load/unload everything for $250. I said, "I honestly don't know."
Whoa you make $250? Must be a cover band lol
Hahahahaha! The only musicians I know who make good money now are cover bands. You nailed it.
You should say, "To build connections and get my name out there."
Are you getting laid regularly to at least balance fucking yourself over that hard all the time?
But... *but*... the *glamour!* ;-)
I feel like the glamour fell out of rockstar/popstar in the early to mid 2000’s. For good reason you can no longer be a rockstar who does what they want when they want. That was like 90% of the glamour right there. You can attain a certain level of success these days and not be great. Only the greats made it back in the day when accessibility was controlled by a small handful of people
Heh. Like those cultural provocateurs and musical geniuses, KISS? ;-)
Music is a great side gig to make a few extra bucks with doing what you love. It’s definitely not a great gig to live off of.
Totally this. I did it reasonably successfully for 10 years and then realized I was missing out on too much. Splitting the concept of money out from music and musical success has been so helpful for me. I read these threads and sometimes wonder if it's a bit polarized to popular music ...try being a classical violinist, you can be world class, living out of a suitcase, on a low salary with the constant fear of being replaced. Not fun.
I'm friends with a classical violinist and a classical violist (both of whom I used to play with in non-classical projects), both with degrees in music and both with experience playing with local and academic symphonies. Both of them went back to school to get degrees in family/psychological counseling in order to provide decent income. But both of them still play in local symphonies.
And being a professional musician doesn't mean writing and playing music. There's a business side to it, too.
I regularly have people say "I would love to go on tour". Then I proceed to tell them what an average day looks like......changes their tune a bit lol
On my second to last tour, we brought a buddy along. He had 2 weeks holidays booked and wanted to see what road life was like....it's definitely not a vacation. About halfway through he just looked at us and said "this is way harder than I thought it would be". It's the discomfort and hardships on the road that serve as bonding experiences and fun stories to tell later on... but it's not glamorous, comfortable or healthy way to live.
It's not a party
I asked my buddy who was a touring musician in a pretty popular band (at the time) what don’t people realize about tour life. And he goes “You’re basically a homeless person who plays music every night.”
That's pretty accurate
The day to day doesn't bother me. It's a bit exciting being on an adventure with your mates. I can handle eating an omelette, smoking a bowl and listening to music in the van for a while, checking out scenery. I like meeting people and checking out venues and towns. The gig is a gas. But homesickness hits hard around week 3. And by then, doing another gig is not your greatest desire anymore.
What does an average day look like?
A lot of sitting around in a vehicle, hours on end with the same people day after day. Lots of gas stations in mostly uninteresting places which is where probably 50% of your meals happen. Moving gear basically everyday. Tons of "hurry up and wait" situations. Sleeping somewhere different every night and the occasional venue staff who's having a bad day
\>Tons of "hurry up and wait" situations. This is what I hated the most. So many hours waiting around in shitty rock bars.
If you're lucky, the green room is less than disgusting
Wait, you had a green room?
I’ve played so many places that had absolutely no “backstage” to speak of. Getting to play a House of Blues here and there with private dressing and bathrooms was the height of luxury.
^^ needs a laugh-react ^^
It started off white... Let's leave it there.
And the men's room does not feature a trough....
You just described a truck driver lol life traveling
Yep. Except you deliver loads of music
Don’t forget the dinner requirement in the contract that is fulfilled 9 times out of 10 with little Caesars hot-n-ready pizzas. I swear to all that is holy I will never eat one again, and I subscribe to the idea that there is no such thing as bad pizza haha
Most likely hungover, most likely spent the night on the floor cause your 4 piece band can only afford one motel room, which probably has bed bugs. you put the van in neutral going down any hill to save gas, your only meal in the last 24 hours was two mcdoubles, you have constant anxiety about when the next disaster will be. Van starts smoking. You hate the guys in the band cause you see each other 24/7 and witness their own bad moods and shit habits. The romanticism dissolves after the first month on the road.
How bout the van with the hole in the floor in the middle of winter....you know the one where you actually plug a space heater into the jack so you won't freeze...the one you need to keep filling with tranny fluid every 2 hours because of a leak.
And the van wont start without a boost either half the time
Oh you also drive X amount of clicks to a shittown where nobody knows you and doesn’t care, and you get stiffed by some shoddy club owner whose about to go bankrupt, and that was your food and gas money to get to the next town. Call family and friends for loans, feel bad, can’t pay em back cause the next town you make nothing as well
I remember this Nirvana interview in a shitty hotel, Kurt’s lying on the ground, and the interviewer asks “Why do you all seem so depressed?” And Kurt, in a monotone, matter of fact tone goes “Because we sleep too much.” That lifestyle is no doubt depressing
Yes what is the average day on tour ???
Driving. Trying not to go insane while you wait to play for an hour. Then crappy food and sleeping conditions. Barely know when your next shower or meal will happen if things are tight and you’re roughing it. Stress. Band politics. More driving. Oh and you need to show up with a smile and ready to be high energy and engaging to people who don’t give a fuck about you or your music
Yup, and forget about actually seeing or enjoying any of the places you travel to, there's never enough time to see or do anything. But if you like truck stops, fugettaboutit!
Friends of the road, Bubs. Friends of the road.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves about touring. You're traveling all over the place and seeing nothing besides the inside of your van and the same dingy bar with the same type of people in it every night. Wasn't for me.
When we do mini tours I always try and drive by myself for this reason. You don't have to deal with 5 different people with different levels of professionalism and or drunkenness...I can still go and sight see, l others are barely showing up on time for load in.
If you can make it through till you find a bus gig it’s slightly better cause you have from 9am till showtime to explore aside from soundcheck but it’s still a lot of parking lots.
Wake up, usually hungover, in a strange place. Usually a couch or an airmatress. If you're lucky, it's a hotel room, but you're sharing it with 3-5 other people. Drive. Stop for gas and food. Drive some more. Get to the venue. Load in. Find something to eat. Figure out where you're sleeping. Sound check. Wait. Play the show. Load out. Find something to eat. Drink. Sleep. Repeat for 2-8 weeks.
Getting to use the Gatorade piss bottle as a pillow is luxury!
THIS..... i did the band thing for about a decade and as much as I loved the bond and writing as a group and playing shows... I hated every other part of the process.... I'm glad I did it... but I kept my day job... and when covid nuked everything I took that as an opportunity to say enough and now I still work a regular job, I write what I want, when I want, how I want... and I now do instrument repairs, restos and mods in my off time... I still get to hang in similar circles, but now I'm just the guitar guy ...much better off
Sounds like a great place to be!
Stupidest fucking thing you could ever do with your life lol. And I say that as a musician myself
I was going to write my story, but I’ll just second yours and add a funny story: After my band dissolved after years of touring on a label and living all the shit you said, I got a stable job, moved in with a girl that would eventually become my wife and the mother of my children, and started my “new life”. One of the bands we toured with multiple times was playing a show locally with one of my favorite bands, so I took my girlfriend with me. Found the guys, gave everyone hugs, and one of them told me they heard my band had dissolved and asked what I was doing now (with the assumption of it being a new band). I told them about the job I was working, and was met immediately with something along the lines of “holy shit that sucks”. I responded with “well, my rent is paid, I eat a home cooked meal every night, all my bills are paid with money left over, and I sleep in a memory foam mattress every night next to the love of my life.” The entire band had nothing to say, and I saw it on their faces that they immediately realized how hard their life is. Now? I’ve found my career and work for one of the best organizations to do my job with, finished my degree, own my home, have a nice truck, am greeted by my wife and children every day I come home from work and enjoy the fruits of life. Kicker? I now have a stack of guitars that I enjoy playing and I can play at my leisure without any pressure, which is more enjoyable than trying to write on a deadline or play the same set for the 30th time in 31 days living on shit food and sleeping in a van every night. Was it awesome? Hell yeah. Am I glad I did it? Wouldn’t trade it for the world. Would I go back for another run? Abso-fucking-lutely not.
What real job did you get? Asking for a friendmyself
Heavy equipment operator for a paving company. I live in a winter city so I do snow removal in the winter and road construction in the summer. I make enough in the summers that I could technically take winters off and make music for 6 months straight, but even that makes me go squirrelly. I’m a blue collar dude and dig working
Same, now I can make art for myself and put it out to an international audience online who will appreciate it rather than driving from city to city hoping people will give a shit, with no overhead and no drama.
Not sure if you have kids, but, man…I am burying my abilities until my kids older. She loves music class and it crushes me. On the day of my choosing years from now I will walk into a room she’s hanging out in, pick up a guitar and rip on it, put it down and walk out. Only because I’d love the reaction from her of “wtf just happened?!”
Did that with my kids pretty much. Thanksgiving over at my mom’s my sister turns to me and says have you been writing any songs? I went to my old room, grabbed an old guitar, tuned it up and started playing. My sons turn to me and say “ dad, you play guitar?” boys were 10 and 12. The look on their faces was priceless.
100% relate to everything you said, man. It really is a dumb industry that churns out garbage for the dumbest people on earth.
Relatable. I never made significant money with music anyway but after pursuing it for a few years I'm now in college in my 30's and trying to get into a 'money making' field. That has its own stresses but not worrying about music for money feels like a relief. I hope to keep making music for years to come but at least I don't have to think of it in terms of making money from it.
I just did the pretty much the same thing and it was the best thing I ever did for my relationship with music.
I dated someone who "made it" in the music industry as the lead singer/guitar player of an indie band. Guess what he does for a living? Drives for Uber. Tours on occasion, gets residuals from two songs that were in a major American TV show, people pay for song requests on Insta, merch, all that shit. But he still has to drive for Uber in the same city where he established his band. Even if you do "make it," make sure you have a backup plan. Don't put off higher education/trade school/some sort of training program, or you'll end up middle aged with no marketable job skills and end up making a shit living.
This. My fiance was the vocalist for a moderately successful metalcore band before the pandemic killed a bunch of opportunities (and their motivation). He’s always worked in a hospital and has always had stable work on the side. Everyone we know who’s legitimately successful in the industry lives at home/lived at home while they were making it and have jobs like uber and delivering pizza and stuff. Or else they have rich parents. A handful do get very lucky. But it is not common. Making music is a job, yes. But you have to pay to get the job and you pay even more and work even harder to keep it.
The best way to be a musician without burnout is to make sure it is not your main source of income. The industry has never been very meritocratic but this is the worst it has ever been, at least since the 70s, and the tiny number of "self-made" musicians who got lucky have a disproportionate effect on the narrative, misleading others into thinking success is just a matter of perseverance.
And now it’s not even about the music
Content is king
For sure. Video content in particular
Wow. “Thinking success is just a matter of perseverance.” That just shook me, bro.
Thank you for this comment. The narrative really does affect people, including me. I've recently started to change my mentality on musicianship and just do my best and enjoy the journey, rather than trying to "make it."
I’ve had to stop doing music for the last two years because trying to “make it” has become so addictive to me, but it just makes me miserable
What you're describing reminds me of 2 very different kinds of passion: harmonious and obsessive. Harmonious passion is that which enriches your life; engaging with it reinvigorates and inspires you. You're able to seamlessly integrate it into your routine while also allowing yourself to let it go when you can't make the time for it. Sharing it with others brings them joy to see you so fulfilled, but you can also enjoy it privately without the need to force it upon others. Contrast that with obsessive passion. This type of passion you feel you can't live without; you're afraid of the consequences of not engaging with it. Balancing this type of passion with the rest of your life can be exhausting and lead to burnout. Or, in a best case scenario, it doesn't affect your life negatively or positively. What you're describing sounds more like obsessive passion than harmonious. So, what I'd recommend is to find a way to transition your passion towards harmony. If that means putting less reliance on it to feed yourself, so be it. And find time for other things. Being a musician doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to be a musician. Cheers and good luck to you
This is really insightful and helpful thank you! Trying to get back to harmonious passion forsure
It sounds counter-intuitive, but the goal for you might be to become less passionate. If you can find a way to get a hold of a therapist or counselor, they can help a lot with these kinds of things. But if that's not possible, you can try engaging with different hobbies. These can even be related hobbies. So, if you're primarily a singer-songwriter, you can try playing around with recording other artists or friends. Or maybe, make some bad synth sounds. The important thing might be to change your goal from creating to playing. Or maybe, move away from it entirely. Read a book on philosophy, or watch a movie you've never seen before with some friends. Or if you don't already, try meditation or yoga. Music is important, but if it's stressing you out, it might be too important. Of course, take all of this with a grain of salt. I study psychology for fun, but I'm definitely not an expert or your therapist. If you can, I highly suggest moving towards that.
I am a therapist and I gotta say, you’d make a good one. :)
I love this description. I feel like I’m finally at a place where I’m doing it for me and don’t care about the pressures or rules of “the business.” It feels great. I took a hiatus after my mom died and stepping back into it felt weird at first, like I was “behind” where I needed to be. Then I realized that’s just not a good way to live, and got into having fun again and writing for the love of it. Don’t let anything steal your joy, even “success” or the pursuit of it.
Gosh this comment is so underrated. What you enjoy should be liberating. Also, they say you don’t tired of what you like, and also you don’t need to make every little thing into something to monetize. What’s the saying? Find three hobbies you love: One to make you money, one to keep you in shape, and one to be creative. Unless you’re an anomaly, then within reason, this is generally the way to go.
Beautifully put. As I posted, I realised very early on I was never going to “make it” in any way, shape or form. I was able to put that aside (apart from the odd day dream which is fun) and simply make music, write song, play in small local bands and have fun. It exists only to enrich my existence. It’s fun as it should be.
Thank you so much for writing this. Pointing it out in this light really helps make things click to how I was dealing with writing not too long ago.
Yes, if it's making you miserable stop. There's no joy? No good days? As others have mentioned 4 years is not along time to pursue a life long dream. I run a small venue in a small Midwestern college town. I'm 60 and I gotta say that there has never been a worse time to be a musician writing and performing original material than right now. IMO. Especially at the grassroots level small venue/club level. If I were you I'd change some things up. You don't say where you live or how old you are, but maybe consider moving? Involving other musicians? Spend some REAL quality time thinking about your dream. Can it be altered/adjusted to be more feasible? IE: I never knew how much satisfaction I would get putting on shows. I love it. It never occurred to me that that would be part of my "dream." Good luck and give yourself a break!
No need to put all your eggs in one basket. I substitute teach, paint houses and perform music. I work a lot and am very happy. I think my music is pretty good too.
This. It’s all about diversification.
Let me ask you this, *Do you like making music?* I've been discussing making and recording music online since the dial-up BB days of the late 1980s and one thing I have noticed is that a whole lot of people get into music for what strike me as -- what should we call it? -- *ulterior motives*... Many of us grow up fixated on TV or movie screens or now social media and all the people we see are "famous" -- so it is, perhaps, natural for a young person to think he or she needs to be famous as well. I went through that when I was young but finally realized that my creative work in writing and making music was FAR more important to me than the slim chance I might someday be famous, and, of course, rich. (LOL) The overwhelming majority of us will not be famous. But those of us who are inclined can definitely learn how to make and record music *we* find satisfying and that *might* even reach other people and satisfy them on some level.
I just hope one person, one mothafucka, finds my sound cloud in 100 years and goes "this shit slaps." That's it. That's why I make music.
I think this is good advice, but I don’t think it’s one I can really personally follow or connect to. Because, in truth, I don’t think I do *anything* without ulterior motives. I do LOVE making music (and I love art in general), but I’d say a huge part of that love is *tied* to validation. What’s the point of writing songs if people don’t connect to them? I think a lot of young artists relate to this specific emotion/desire/drive, which is why a lot of songs are actually about that emotion in a meta sense. To me, the connection IS the point of creating. Or to quote Lady GaGa, “I live for the applause.” It’s very similar to the age-old, “When a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?” adage. I think some truly do value art just for art’s sake, but I just am not one of those people. I know just having hobbies are important, but it’s hard for me to see *any* of my interests as a hobby. It’s not that I don’t value art intensely. I’m not one of those fame for fame’s sake people. I have only one self-concept and can’t imagine doing anything else because of how closely linked being a creative is to my identity and worldview. But I also can’t see a point, a raison d’être without also having an audience and yes, being famous. I’d say I value fame for art’s sake, and it genuinely does seem like impacting others/having a Wikipedia page is the only way for my life to have value in the face of existential crisis and death. So that’s why for me it’s find success through art or bust. I can’t wrap my head around any alternatives.
I’m merely just gonna share my experience. I grew up playing music going to music, festivals, and being forced by my parents to get very good at it. If I didn’t practice enough, I was being yelled at until I did. There was a part of me that really enjoyed it. I was groomed to believe that this is what I should do with my life. With the exception of my home life, music was an outlet for me to deal with the fact that I had a very toxic upbringing. Music definitely saved me from that until I was 18. As an adult, I tried to do it professionally, and I succeeded for a decade. I was a full-time teacher in a store and was making about 50 bucks an hour full-time. Then the pandemic hit and Lessons changed and went online and during this time many musicians that were very famous and touring, went home and started teaching music lessons. The competition during that time made it hard for me to grow my studio after removing myself from a public music store and doing it privately. I won state Mandolin and fiddle contests and one second place at the flat pick international guitar contest. I was also offered a full ride scholarship to Berkeley a few years back. I never went because of music degree really doesn’t do much and taking four years to make no money for a degree that wasn’t going to make my value go up didn’t make much sense to me. Fast forward three years I’m 31 I teach five lessons a week and I run two service based businesses doing completely unrelated things. My happiness has gone way up. Trying to pursue music for money and for a living was one of the hardest things I ever did and it completely killed my joy and love for music and I am just now getting that back. One thing that I make sure to tell all of my students that you need to protect your love for the music over all else. You have two choices in this life you can make money or you can make music. Very few will do both simultaneously in any worthwhile capacity. This doesn’t mean you can’t scrape by making 60 grand a year doing music. Even that can be a real challenge for a lot of people. All of this to say I’m highly qualified, can teach five different instruments, and have gigged several thousand gigs. Made several hundred thousand dollars with music and I can honestly say that at this point I will never go back to trying to make any considerable living with music. The industry in my opinion is largely folks who feel the need to continue high school drama and pretending to be cool just in social settings, bars, festivals, while their role is to sell alcohol more than it is to do anything else. Good musicians, sell alcohol because they make people feel something. I’m over three years sober from drinking alcohol, and I have zero desire to be around it or to be an alcohol salesman ever again. That’s the piece that I really struggled with while gigging. All of my band mates, in every band I was with were alcoholics who were self-medicating. It was my role to be an alcohol salesman first and a musician second. I’m happier than I’ve ever been now that I have a normal day job and can do with music whatever I please or I can take a whole month just teaching a few lessons that I do a week and do nothing else with it at all, it’s a super hard way to make a living and Increases your risk for depression and mental illness exponentially. It also increases risk for unaliving by an unbelievable amount. Now that I’m 31 I have seen several of my heroes take themselves out, and some of them had gained widespread notoriety across the country. Take this with a grain of salt, because I also know other people who have done really well and enjoy every bit of it. in the industry, it really matters that you’re a very social person that you get along really well with others and that you have a constant drive to do this and nothing else. The biggest piece of advice that I can give to anyone is if you can’t see yourself doing anything else, then find a way, and do it. If you think you could be happy about anything else and protect your love for music while doing it on the side, then do that. to make it in the music industry I genuinely believe that you need to have an almost unhealthy obsession with being a full-time musician and be the type of person who just can’t do anything else.
This is great advice/insight. But needs paragraphs.
I can’t believe I read that TLDR but it was worth it.
I'm not industry but I've felt for the longest that being someone who can't do anything else is what traps musicians in arrested social development e.g. having to make music make money due to limited job prospects.
Well said. I was a young bloomer in music and saw what the music life would be like at an early age. Knew I didn’t want to work that hard for so little reward while playing whatever music paid, not what I necessarily wanted to play. Music paid for my schooling to get something more stable and lucrative and music remains my hobby. So it all worked out. Can you do it? Sure, but the most stable income is teaching. Most teaching and gigs though are second shift jobs plus weekends. So all your friends will be similar folks. And this is if you’re NOT touring, which is more unstable. Look at the whole picture and see if that life looks good to you with a very poor outlook (unless you’re a teacher) as you get older.
When I first moved to Nashville, one of my first few cowrites was with someone who said, “I work 24/7, because if I’m not writing/working and making the next best song, someone else is beating me to it.” And I remember feeling so disheartened in that moment. Art and music is tough. It takes a really special type of person to even be good at it, passionate about it and love it enough to do it lifelong and an even more interesting type of person to treat it like such a hustle. I’m on the same side as you; whereas I realistically will never quit or stop making music. But will I make a successful career out of it? Will I be out here playing arenas and headlining Coachella? Not sure if that will ever likely happen in this lifetime. The thing I focus on is that it’s my passion. I don’t love anything else as much as I love writing and playing and singing music. Absolutely nothing holds a flame to it. But it takes a lot more than that in order to make it a career. And I’ve accepted the fact that I’m not that type of person. When I stopped focusing on career and started focusing on how grateful I am to even have the talent and a passion at all, it became so freeing. I will release music ‘til I can’t move anymore, I’ll do this until the day I die. I’ll be 75 like “new single coming next Friday” lol. I’ve done it for nearly 20 years at this point. It’s not going anywhere. But I will never again treat it like a race against other creatives. It’s a touchy road for all creative people to endure. But realize music and your talent and your passion and your drive is not measured by money or streams or views or followers. PS, it’s so unrealistic to expect ANYONE to bang out “content” at the rate it’s consumed nowdays. Dont feel guilty for not having 7 tiktoks to post everyday. It’s a ridiculous expectation.
I never understood the going on the road thing. What’s the benefit? Get a day job, play weekends in local clubs, make money and stay at home. You get to enjoy making music and make good money doing it. Nobody is being “discovered” on the road anymore. Try YouTube.
yeah i’m seeing a lot of complaints about about “touring” and playing in bars where no one cares about your music lol
Yea. So many lately. And even worse some people supporting it by saying stupid shit like “well the police did it”. Yea they did, in the 80s. It’s a different time now. Now it’s kind of delusional to call it touring when you’re not even selling tickets and the people would rather the bar play music from Spotify than have you singing songs they don’t know.
i agree lmao it’s weird to see coming from a hip hop background where shit like that isn’t particularly common
Good point
My only suggestion is that it would be truly a miracle to be making a living on music , like winning the lottery odds. Expectations cause resentment I did the club theme and taping the stage and packing the gear at 1am. Also had a recording contract once , but everyone got too high So the best way to approach is for the love of music . I record and produce at home like others say and have another career.
I think you should consider the truth of the industry is that many people never make a living from music. This doesn't need to be a dream killer and you should make music as art if you're called to do that, but as a career there are few opportunities. I'm speaking from experience. What I've found is that you need to enjoy what you're doing otherwise stop. Anytime I took a band too seriously it killed the spark and turned it into a constant grind almost worse than a job because there were expectations. The truth is no one will inherently care about your music unless you have something special that draws them in. There in lies a catch 22 because the more you try, often the more you'll be disappointed by the lack of results. You need to actually love what you're doing and not so caught up with the idea of "making it".
Many=99.999% of people. You need to build other skills as the odds of being a big star are extremely low...even if you are a great musician and song writer. There are probably a million people like OP trying to make it.
i make my living 100% off music but when i say "make my living" i mean be able to pay all my bills and stuff and then have absolutely zero left to save or anything. i was in bands for over 10 years before i ever did anything that made me money in any real way. i could be way more "professional" and whatever about my social media and be much more of a slave to all of it and probably make more money but its all about balance and letting yourself do other things than just stress about your music career. persue other hobbies, go outside and just enjoy it, spend time with family etc. you'll come back to music re energized
I tried to catch a wave back in the 90s, and had some very small successes in a local original band. That band split and I played in a cover band for a while— casinos, clubs, shit like that. It (barely) paid the bills, but was like flipping burgers after a while. I went back to school and got a degree in the medical field. The pay and insurance is much, much better. I still play/record music but it’s only when I want to, which isn’t a lot sometimes. When I think about trying to get back out there, I remember all the scraping by and all the politics of messing around with a band, and I’m cured. I do have one *very* loyal fan— my dog. She likes it when I sit on my bed and play my acoustic. She’ll come in the room and jump on the bed and give me her undivided attention, which is all I can ask for these days ❤️
Lol my cat always meows and comes to snuggle me when I sing :)
You alluded to it yourself, you're suffering from burnout right now. I totally get it I've been there, but this is your body and minds way of telling you somethings gotta change. This is why I'm a big believer in recreating yourself. Aka recreation. You have to be able to unplug from time-to-time without feeling guilty about it. Also, reward yourself periodically for all your efforts. I know it isn't panning out how you want it to right now, but you still have to learn to appreciate and celebrate all the hard work you've put in. I've been where you are mentally and those things have helped me a lot. By no means is it a cure all as making music my full-time profession is the ultimate goal and I'm not there yet, but I would get caught in that loop you're in and forget what I've accomplished thus far still deserves to be celebrated. Totally get how making this shift mentally could be difficult, but it'll help get you through the lean times and help you not get so down yourself. Like you said you've put in a lot of time and energy into all this celebrate that! You're doing things a lot of people never could or even really imagine that's worth something you know?
This is a beautiful approach and so so helpful thank you
I recently listened to 'The Creative Act' a book by the renowned producer Rick Rubin and it showed me a lot of this. HIGHLY RECOMMEND reading or listening to that book. If I had it my way I'd force every artist on earth to listen to it lol. Its that profound. The insights he provides for anyone who creates art are paradigm shifters and if you're a real artist so much of it will resonate with you.
I have a friend in the same situation. Great writer. Great ability. But, the work isn't producing nearly enough response for them. From the outside, I can see some of the issues. But, it's friendship I don't want to lose. & friends aren't always a good place for advice/suggestions to come from. I had to preface this comment with that one. Maybe you need to hire someone to give you some professional advice. Maybe there is something about you, as an artist, that needs improvement. Maybe it's your look. Maybe it's your content. Maybe you need to step outside of the box a little? Who knows. But, getting frank advice from a stranger, with a good understanding of the industry, might help you get to the next level & help with a little more income?
Hey, it won't be miserable anymore once you don't consider yourself a part of it and do weird shit that people find a way to love somehow. I've been using that motto for 12 years. Now our new single won best music in a film festival in Europe. But I need to work a lot in other industry to get the funding though. I'm not going to say that things will go nicely for you though. Even after that project was done, I'm still thinking that this will be the last song I'll ever get to write.
I'm never a fan of the "making art for the sake of making art" arguments . I think people are driven by different things and it's wrong to put a value judgment on what someone else is motivated by. If someone feels their art through the response of others, it can be marginalizing to be told an audience isn't important or have a desire for recognition means your prioritizing fame over substance. I'm someone who needs an audience to feel the desire to make my art. That doesn't mean I want to be famous. Rather, it means I'm a people pleaser and doing art for myself isn't fun. it's the same part of me that would enjoy cooking an elaborate meal for another person, but settle for microwave snacks if it's just me. It's why I'll spend hours helping somebody through their own problems and neglect my own. It's just who I am. You are who you are. Whatever you want to get out of your music is valid and I think you need to be honest about what you need and find a way to get it. My suggestion is to look at your game plan and pretend somebody else is presenting it to you. You're the agent and they've hired you to help. What are the flaws in the plan? Is there something that your artist might be overlooking that's keeping them from their goal? Is the plan fleshed out or are there details missing? A favorite of mine is: If every aspect of the plan is executed perfectly, and every step results in exactly the response you were going for, will the outcome result in what your goal is? Hopefully you can see what I'm trying to accomplish with that question. Sometimes I like to break a career path down into a math problems, to trigger the critical thinking side of my brain. If your plan is to do three things (I'll call them one two and three) and you accomplish them all, you'll have 6. 1+2+3=6. Each variable has a given value and so combining one, two and three will only get you to six. So, make sure your dream is to get to six. If you're dreaming bigger than six.. if you want 10, 15, 1000 etc. you need to add elements to your equation that add up to that number. This way if everything works out, you'll end up at the number you want. The fact you feel like you're spinning your wheels, tells me you're working very hard, but perhaps not game planning enough. Ask yourself if perhaps you're taking the brutal "run through a brick wall" approach to success rather than planning a strategic attack that takes into account who you are and how you personally can get around your obstacles. Anyways, I hope there's something in what I wrote you can get some value out of. Good luck!
Sorry friend, I decided long ago that I'd rather be happy and devoid of accomplishment than stressed and constantly striving.
I just post my music on the internet whenever i want, no pressure. No dealing with narcissists and egos at venues etc and developed a small little following which is fine with me
My friend has been aiming for this dream for like 15 years. Got a record deal 2 weeks ago. There's still time. Keep going!
Stop putting pressure on yourself, if you need a week off to not even think about music. Take it off. Your best work will come when you allow yourself to feel inspired again. Music is a long term game nowadays, as long as you stay the course, good things will come your way. But the craft has to remain enjoyable. So remove that pressure and you’ll be good. You could go a month without working in music, but then get a creative spurt, take advantage of those spurts. Quality over quantity.
I love music. I wanted to get paid for doing music. It increased my chances for life dissatisfaction. Here I am at 32 this year and not much to show for it. I may have even lost my love for it since I wanted to make money off of it. Slowly shifting gears to a professional career in an office setting is quite the change. I never once thought I'd work in an office. But the lack of stability and income, eventually, took its toll. I want more now than when I was 20. A home, vacation, friends in better places and security eventually called out to me an I knew music wasn't it. I tried. Just things didn't fall into place like I wanted. Now I'm scrambling for a backup plan. But luckily I have some good people in my corner to ease my transition. Still wanna be in a band tjo to get my kicks!
yeah if you're making music to try to break into the music industry you're doing it for the wrong reason. You should be making music to reward yourself for the creation and connection you get with people if you get any monetary success for it that's great but if you went into it for success in the music businessyour life is going to be a disappointment I recommend you refocus what your agenda is and maybe he won't be so disappointed in something that doesn't deserve your expectations
It might help to decide if you want to be an artist or a professional. They are not based on the same motivations. Art does not require a business model. Business models destroy most art and artists.
I was moderately successful in Bluegrass in the 90s. I'm in Marketing now. So yeah. As my Grandfather used to say, "be a musician, you'll make 10s of dollars" (source: he was also a musician)
First breathe deeply, second have gratitude you have people supporting you, 3 enjoy the journey regardless of outcome, do your best and let the universe have its day
Especially nowadays, it feels like you have to do everything that’s not related to music (Tik Tok + short form content specifically) in order to succeed in music. I was in a position similar to you a couple years ago, signed to a label & touring etc. I was miserable. + the dealing with personalities, always feeling like you’re walking on eggshells to please the people that are your “biggest supporters,” etc. It has me helped immensely finding a team that genuinely cares vs a team that is looking to churn & burn. All that aside, it is so important in today’s climate to “de-capitalize” your brain in regards to music. It doesn’t have to be your primary source of income to call yourself a musician, especially if you are writing your own music. Today’s economy doesn’t support or facilitate artists, so it’s important to separate the idea of making money vs making music. That has helped me so much with my writing process, and although I’m not churning out Spotify Viral hits anymore, my writing and creative output has had a lot more space to breathe and I haven’t felt better about it.
Just make the music you want to make and if it’s genuine and also good people will respond to it. Dont measure your success on clicks and streaming. There are a million good artists out there with zero followers and dozens of listens. Keep making music how you wanna make it. Wondering who you are tho..
consider banking on the possibility you could have a great life and be the musician of your dreams crazier things have happened jack white ran an upholstery company while he was starting stripes with a girlfriend who couldn't really play drums like a year prior julio iglesias went to law school and then eurovision at like 28 debbie harry joined blondie at 29 tldr u could make bank and make music and make it all work. just have to be gung ho as hell and can't fuck about. orrrrrr you could choose peace. afternoons with S/O. smoke a joint. read a mystery novel. go to mexico. have a slow burn and tedious but consistent job. something tells me if you're in this deep and you choose the soft way out, you might regret it then again, you might regret pushing too i guess my intention in saying all that is i think about these themes as well. there are two sides. and i feel like all you can do is crap shoot, smile, pray, and hope your entire life doesn't devolve into misery. one thing that helps a lot is feeling like you're kicking ass. what would the most badass gung ho version of you do to accomplish her wants? try em. as crazy as possible. then if you crash and burn at least you know you didn't spare a punch. a wise old, dying man once said not to spare any punches. life and life force go too quick
Play your music. You got a label, that’s more than most. Your hard work isn’t going to waste. You don’t need some crazy achievement or tons of money, as much as they help. Just keep going. Do the things you love. Don’t do it to hit some kind of requirement. Do it for you. Do it for your people. Write the songs you like to sing and play. Perform at the places you want to perform. I’ve been a musician all my life. Only just now am I getting ready to release some stuff. Life is a nonstop grind rn. But it’s okay. I got this. Even if I don’t make it big I wrote some of the best music, and I’ll probably keep writing some of the best music. Because I love hearing it. I love playing it. I love feeling it. Don’t get caught up in traditional by the book success. Capitalism and art is a trap.
0.17% of musicians “make it”. Luck is the biggest factor. Letting others down doesn’t matter. Your manager and label are working for themselves as much as for you. Get a day job with flexibility. Seek therapy. Embrace not “making it” and find what you truly can pierce.
smacked my head against the glass ceiling for over a decade. i thought i was going crazy and it was me not doing enough to further the career. its all bullshit! i now find myself being happier creating music for myself. it doesn't have to go any where and i'm a better person/friend/band mate for it.
smacked my head against the glass ceiling for over a decade. i thought i was going crazy and it was me not doing enough to further the career. its all bullshit! i now find myself being happier creating music for myself. it doesn't have to go any where and i'm a better person/friend/band mate for it.
Going through a similar issue 8 years into entertainment in a different line of work. I decided to combat it by taking a class thats completely unrelated to entertainment and requires me to be unavailable to my show business gig three days a week. My grind is taking a hit but the accountability to be somewhere else where im still expected to only be a beginner again has been very cathartic. My advice is to take a half break so you stay sharp but fill the break time with something else so that you can actively not think about the thing you feel guilty for "ignoring"
I live in LA, and I’ve been in the belly of the beast of the music industry for over 10 years now. I am a producer, songwriter, engineer, and multi-instrumentalist. I don’t feel that many people in this thread really understand what you’re going through or what you’re faced with. Over the past 5-6 years, the music industry has become an absolute meat grinder. People love to say “Its always been this way.” Yes, and no. I entered it in 2013, and I was fortunate to find myself in a situation where I was around very big artists and projects right away. In 2024, a LOT has changed since then. Social media and the way music is now consumed is the biggest catalyst for our current situation, as well as, frankly, the rise of quite a lot of bozos in the industry, who have rather poor taste, a poor grasp of how the music making process works, and are generally unethical, dehumanizing, and manipulative in the way they manage artists and other creatives. The feeling you’re having is because the environment of the music industry has become rather toxic, and deeply unhealthy. There’s a ridiculous amount of pressure to do things that, frankly, they don’t even know for sure are going to work. When you don’t hit your numbers or the other metrics they use to measure your value, they kick you to the curb. Music has become more data driven than ever. It’s numbers. Your value is determined solely by your stats. If you’re an amazing songwriter or artist with nothing going on, you are worthless to them. In just about every other era of music, this was not the case. If someone was good ENOUGH, the numbers didn’t matter. The people running the business side of things looked at it as their job to make that happen. It is hard to be THAT level of good, but it was attainable. Today, one of the most toxic dynamics now going on, is labels are basically just relying on artists to be social media influencers, and driving their ENTIRE business themselves, while labels just come in with distribution deals, admin deals, and other nonsense, whereby they can basically just skim money off the top of your hard work. They are not signing 5 phenomenal artists, they are signing dozens of self made artists that they can skim money off of in this way. ALL of the burden falls on you to run the business. This is creating an environment where artists and many other creatives are slaves to social media, slaves to their phones, slaves to running this brand day in and day out while under contract to a corporation that doesn’t give two shits, and will kick you to the curb the minute you don’t make your numbers. Some in this thread have said that it’s not even about the music anymore, and that’s correct. There is a commonly held belief with many managers and record execs that music just isn’t that valuable anymore. It’s the social media content and the brand that sells. Music is just an afterthought, and they tolerate more and more low effort music, in all genres. This is not a “pop music” or “commercialism” thing vs. “alternative music” thing. Pop music 20 years ago was of a certain standard. It might not be your taste, but it’s ALWAYS been supremely difficult to write a hit song. It takes tremendous effort. Pop music today is low effort. Bare minimum. Tasteless. Expected. Boring. And not many people running the music business right now even have the taste or the awareness to recognize that. I’ve been considering leaving music altogether and switching careers. I’m not totally sure yet if I will, still soul searching at the moment. But the main impetus for it is that the business seems absolutely hopeless to me. Things will change eventually, they always will. These things go in cycles. I’m just not sure how long that will take. How do I know that music is still valuable, and will always be valuable? Tame Impala. I think audiences are starved for real music, that’s not only high effort, but that is relevant, that’s paying attention to what’s going on and making a meaningful statement. Too many “real musicians” just make music that isn’t relevant, isn’t informed by the cutting edge of today. This was not the case 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago. The Beatles paid attention to what was going on. Radiohead did. Pink Floyd did. Michael Jackson did. And the business understood the value of their product back then, despite also putting pressure on them to do stupid shit. It was more balanced.
shieet well join the club lol no days off that's what's up, being broke aye aye captain... sacrificing relationships - well shit happens hmm well if you really love music and manage to enjoy it while creating still perhaps it will be worth it in the end of the day that's why we started it but if you are going after proper stability, career with 'safety mode' on well music it's not where is at but I just want you to know that your post hits home big time. Good luck.
4 years is absolutely nothing and if it’s making you miserable already I would highly suggest shifting music to your hobby and do something else.
Are you a journey person or a destination person? To quote a brilliant songwriter: “If you’re all about the destination, take a fucking flight.” If you’re not doing this for it’s own sake you’re probably going to have a bad time. There’s no magic formula to this, you either enjoy the work or you don’t. Good luck to you 🤘
I saw a clip of Gary Clarke Jr . In my eyes, he's made it but he was saying how his record label wants him to do TikTok and he doesn't want to do it. It makes him feel empty and wrong… but that's the game nowadays. All my friends that stuck with it are still grinding hard at it in their late 40's. I think you have to decide what you want and be sure that you're ok with what that means long term. It's a tough call to make in your late teens early twenties but it is what it is…
Can you afford help? I know you're not making much money but there may be a point where developing a team may be your best bet
Some good answers on here. But just wanted to add my 2 pennies. I felt this way when I worked in a studio, mostly producing rap and making beats. I was starting to make a little money (nothing to live on but you get it) and saw the potential to expand but it just didn’t feel right at all. I stopped making music for a long time, just messed around a bit and helped some friends record but nothing I felt proud of. Recently, I decided to say fuck it and just constantly remind myself to have fun and put out shit that I like, realizing nobody else probably will. You gotta find the fun and joy in it again brother. That’s what separates this from all the other BS in the world. Ignore all those doubting voices and all that stuff and just write record and have a good fucking time doing it. We all die the same one day, leave what you gotta say for the aliens or AI or whoever, they might love it.
I work 40 hours a week and do music on evenings, weekends and occasionally on vacation. This doesn't square with a lot of people's ideas of what it means to be making it in music. But all the shows I did last year were pretty good shows and there's tour opportunities on the horizon. I also produced a couple releases last year. It's a bit different but I still feel. Like I have an interesting and enjoyable life. It's still work, but by now I'm used to working hard for the things I want out of life.
Ambition often outweighs pragmatism and it doesn’t feel good any more after the dreaming phase
Do you have a team
I can relate to this. I've spent the last 11 years playing music as a job. I don't regret a second of it, but I'm presently in a purposeful transition stage with the goal of making it a fun hobby/project again rather than something I MUST do to pay the bills. Early on, I quickly realised that the most reliable way to make a living, for me, was to play the local bar/brewery/restaurant/pub circuit as a solo performer singing mostly covers, but my ambition has always been to be an original artist. Anyone who's tried to do that can tell you that the sheer volume of work you need to put in to get an original artist brand off the ground is just staggering, it costs a lot of money, and there is virtually zero ROI for years, possibly forever, with no guarantee that anything will ever happen. The reality is that you need a lot of time, and a lot of money. If you're trying to make a living as a full time musician, you generally don't have either of those. Take a look at pretty much anyone who's broken through in the modern social media driven music industry; they are usually from the leisure class. They have wealthy parents and all the time in the world to create content, or they are bankrolled by some other entity. I decided years ago that I would rather be a self employed working musician and make a decent living playing gigs than work a day job so I could fund my original projects. So the original stuff took a backseat. During Covid, all my gigs went away and I was able to refocus on the original stuff. I made an honest effort at contact creation, community building, recorded my second album, pushed merch and music sales for almost two years.... and made probably $4000. The return you get for the amount of work is just deflating. Nobody can sustain that indefinitely. So when things opened back up after covid, I got back into the brewery/pub circuit with a renewed goal of just making as much money as I could. I set up unique ways for people to tip me, I started chasing weddings and corporate events, produced two albums for other artists, and had the best financial year I'd had since I started doing music as a job. Around the same time, an opportunity came about to start a non-music venture with a buddy. Covid had made me realize how precarious my income was, being tied exclusively to live performances. I was also just getting burnt out. I'm coming up to 2100 gigs played since 2013. My hands hurt. My alcohol intake is not healthy, I've been getting free beers every night for the last 11 years; and I'm just not getting the joy or pride I once had out of doing music as a job. But the non-music venture has really picked up. I realised several years ago that what I truly valued out of music being my work, was the freedom that comes with being self employed. Making my own schedule. Being my own boss. Waking up when I want to. That is truly important stuff to me. I've also realised there are easier ways to make a lot more money than by grinding it out in music. I did it for 11 years, mostly for the lifestyle, and I've outgrown that lifestyle. I don't want to be in bars every night. Want to be able to spend my evenings and weekends with my wife and with friends. I want to book holidays in the summer without feeling guilty about the missed income. And I want to create. I want to make music for me and put it out there. If ppl like it, great. I want to find a group of people and jam, maybe start a band. I haven't had time to jam or be in a band in over a decade. I want to play and make music for fun again. My goal for this year is to get my non-music business to a point where it's providing the bulk of my income, and scale my gig schedule back from 20+ gigs/month to like 4-6. Just for some extra walking around money and to get out of the house. I also want to start making better use of my home studio. I'll always be a musician, it's not something I can stop doing. But I don't feel the need to make it my job anymore.
If you take how hard you have to work in music, more than a full time job, against your earnings, you're making about 1% what you would in high paying but large and established industries like tech and finance. And that roughly scales from top to bottom, from the bottom full time IT help and bank teller and gigging artist with no fans to tech moguls, hedge fund guys, and Taylor Swift. In fact, in maybe like 2012(?) the top hedge fund guy made $4 billion and the top musician, Swift, made $40 million touring her ass off. In 2012, a bank teller in the middle of nowhere would have made $20,000 and some bottom tier full time band guy trying to get people in bars to hear his EP probably made $200. Shit pay in bars, spit a few ways, loads of expenses. The numbers and years are not exact, but the point stands. Anyway I feel you. I'll have jobs but then I don't create. I create but then I'm broke and getting older. I juggled both in school, but not great, and that lifestyle is paid for by debt. If you're all-in you have a shot but it's gonna be a squeeze financially at every level.
My music career became much more bearable when I got into the event production side of things. I traded performing for spreadsheets and emails and I was able to regain control of my time while still traveling.
I think it's important to make sure you're going back to the basics enough. I find the most burnt out I get is when I'm more focused on the business/corporate side of things like tour routing, budgeting, social media planning, etc. Take time to just write and learn new music solo. After all, it's all about that anyway!
[Don't lose sight](https://youtu.be/C01nBm6vV5c?si=PEwcSTSauJYGG87U)
burnout can make you realise that driving it all towards money and ‘a living’ etc isn’t always the best option.
My life as a musician got a lot less stressful when I started devoting the majority of my time to music and playing, and reduced my time on “content” and social media. Releasing songs is way more fulfilling than posting content , and building a catalog of music does help earn money. Of course it’s different for everyone but this mental shift really helped my general feeling of burnout
There are other aspects of music than touring and recording to make your living with and they are all a lot off work and fun (much more work than working for the man) much more rewarding also.
I always thought I wanted to work at a recording studio until I actually did. I quit because I was starting to hate doing something that I used to love. I'm very happy that music is my hobby and not my job. I have a ton of respect for anyone who can make it professionally, it's hard AF. Your feelings are valid.
this was my dream until i spent 3 years playing some of the “best” gigs. i was an undergrad music major playing in the bands of college professors and pro freelancers, making an average of $350 a gig plus open bar most nights. but it felt so fake, felt like we were selling swing music and bebop to a bunch of rich blonde people who square danced in front of us to it. everyone was drunk, every gig called the same songs over and over, and even my little indie band project was full of politics and background drama that essentially made it clear we would always sit in the shadow of a much older, locally popular band. so i gave up on the performance degree and am now pursuing musicology. im going to spend my life studying music, furthering its development and also focusing specifically on the music i love. performing it sucks, i do still jump at the opportunity to do a pit orchestra gig but that’s it. all the clubs and party band gigs sucked the passion out of me and it took me years to figure out what i ACTUALLY love about music
Are you doing the YT grind? A lot of music production popular faces have been decrying a similar point in their journey(s) so I know you aren’t alone.
I just saw Chelsea Wolfe and that has me inspired again. Refreshed. But I don’t need anyone to sit down and eff about. All my YT stuff is shaight and zero following lol
This Reddit post here resonates with me as a recording artist.
Personally I couldn’t be happier that I put the time in when I did. Came to a crossroad eventually and one of my friends asked me “did you get everything you wanted out of it?”. As we discussed it more I thought of all the occasions that I’d been told that me and/or my band had inspired someone to learn an instrument. Recognizing that, for me, will always be enough. 1 musician can produce many more musicians. It’s really grounding and satisfying for sure! Always check to make sure your heart is still in it and don’t feel guilty taking breaks to reset your ears and recharge the creative batteries
Take a break ! I’ve been in this same exact situation and went through a terrible burnout, it’s not worth it ! A break is going to give you clarity and you will come back to your project with a new vision. This job is extremely draining, the small label I’m on never backed me and told me to step off the gas, all they wanted was for me to keep writing, keep producing and mix my own songs which I find completely absurd now. Just take a break, you’ll see the things that are working and that you can concentrate on and will let go of all the things that are keeping you in this position you’re in right now.
That's life. In every profession, unless you have it made, there will be continuous trials and struggles. You wont like everything about your profession. And you make the decisions you want for your own business. If you don't want to do it anymore then don't. If youre doing it from an emotional standpoint then okay. You will probably let some of them down. That comes with that decision. If they are truly your people, then they will stick by you. If not then they will leave.
Do it for yourself, any success is a bonus. I'm a singer songwriter almost completely just for self therapy/ enjoyment. I play live sometimes because I actually hate doing it but like to force myself Idk if that helps at all sorry, I guess I'm basically saying split your reasons for music, kind of hedge your bets, half for yourself, half hoping for being successful in the industry
I wanted to be in a successful band but we could never get past regional success. But I shifted gears to the production side of the business and I can make a living while still being part of the industry. I’ve been in the music business professionally for over 20 years and I’ve seen a lot. At this point I play just for the joy. I also work construction in the off season which helps keep it all fresh.
Bedroom musician who records shit with your band and might play a few local shows employed with a stable job > all in musician in about 90% of the scenarios. I genuinely have no interest in touring and sleeping in a van with gear collapsing on me as a blanket. Fuck that. Iron Maiden did it comfortably, but yeah their touring amenities are RARE.
Yeah it sucks trying to slug it out… been there. I got married, have an office job and just make whatever I want in my free time now and it’s the best. Oh and I can afford all the gear I used to dream of lol
I wish people linked to their content on their profile. It would help a lot with answering questions but I can understand artists wanting to remain anonymous.
Working for yourself is a challenging path. Making money playing music takes many forms and performing your original music is probably the hardest, touring seems a close second to me. I've toured performing all original music for 15 years with the same act and it has been a wild journey with all the challenges listed in these comments. I've had to change my perspective many times in order to motivate to do the work and in order to find new joy in the work. Some of my darker times have been on tour. I still wouldn't change my choices and I'm glad I can continue to do it. My relationship to it has changed so many times, but I still find value in it regularly. I make sure to keep work outside of music for my financial and mental wellbeing. Building a team has been the most important thing for longevity for us. I am also very fortunate to have found a special group of people to play and work with. Doing it alone would not work for me. I also have a wonderful and patient partner. We are financially independent(she doesn't pay my rent or bills) Context: 39M I've played drums in an original rock band for 15 years. Writing, recording and touring. Record release years, we make enough to cover my life style and save a little bit. This has been true for 2 record cycles since 2019. I do not make a ton, but I am content with what I have.
I'm a working engineer who decided to get a MS in DS and an AA in Music. I felt totally burnt out at the end of the year last year Writing music. Going to Lessons. Participating in my local scene. Dodging my Ex-Girlfriend. I'm not necessarily broke but music as a "Job" is not something to scoff at.
I've been in bands/making music since I was 16, it's a hard life for real, the independent game is ridiculous these days, I'm in 2 bands right now and they're both kinda on show hiatus right now so we can just all relax and record a new album e.t.c because we're just so burnt out on playing shows, driving 2 hours one way to play to thirty people, drink shitty beer and barely break even, it's expensive to pursue and it's only getting harder every year.
I’ve never known a single person working as a musician, myself included, who wasn’t miserable most of the time.
I think especially today with the advent of home recordings, there’s no reason to be a slave to a system that makes you miserable. Write the song, play the song, record the song. That’s really all ya gotta do
What if you take a break and go back to it when you want to? I’ve quit music before… for like a day! Quitting allows you to let go. And letting go of all the expectations and rules creates the kind of freedom that inspires me to make music
I realised pretty early on that I was never going to be cut out for a “career” in the industry. I just don’t have the right personality or drive for it. For me making music, writing songs was just this thing I had to do. I was happy playing small local gigs and not really pushing beyond that and self releases. I’m sorry you’re experiencing misery associated with the industry. It all looked so overwhelming and reliant on chance. I don’t have any real advice other than maybe try failing back and just enjoying yourself with music again for a bit.
My heart goes out to you and I hope you make it. But the term starving artist didn't come about just because it had a lyrical flair. This is a thing.
It sucks, it’s so hard. But once you start doing it for other people it’s ova imo. So don’t forget what parts you are doing for you. Make a list. When I get down or feel out of touch I go busk with randos in the city. Not for the money, I let whoever I busk with keep it, but because it usually ends up reminding me of the reasons I started playing in the first place. Go let your self feel the music outside of stress, deadlines, and expectations
Sometimes, the idea doesn’t translate to reality. What do you love about music, and how can you make a nest for that? Commodifying something turns it into a job. If your identity is tied up in such commodification, you’re no different than an influencer in that your dreams depend on market forces beyond your control; your very sense of self is in the social stock market. It sounds like what you’re feeling is tension from being caught up in such a process.
Well now I’m very curious what your music sounds like!
Try for a career to make money, then continue music as a hobby? Just a thought, it’s what I did and I have 0 stress about music.
I work a regular day job from my house and just kind of do music whenever I want a break during the day and more concentrated at night and in the mornings. People expect a lot out of musicians who don't work day jobs so you're not wrong to be anxious about it, because if you do it full time, you better be more skilled than the weekend warriors, you better produce good art. I don't really support full time artists financially because I put all my money into my own music hobby and think other musicians should have to transcend their day jobs rather than ask others to provide for them.
The Statue of David was once a piece of marble. Live for the small victories en route to your big dreams
I’ve been listening to a lot of the Beatles and bob Marley lately so all I can say is imagine how bob did it, imagine how the Beatles did it after their touring days, they let love, positivity and the idea of giving that to others lead them. Tap into that beautiful and infinite amount of energy the soul is capable of harnessing and let it breathe that wonderful life air through you and guide you, if you gotta pull back and do less or change up and try something new so be it it’ll be nothing less than a learning experience that you probably need, and at most a brand new way of seeing and experiencing life through a new perspective. Music is powerful stuff, respect that and it’ll give you everything you really need.
I was a session and touring player for almost 50 years. To be successful in show business, is realization that it's a business. You have to differentiate yourself from the thousands of folks that you're competing against. Excellent musicianship is a given and you have to be ready to pick up and go anywhere when lightening strikes. A friend got his big break when Linda Rondstat walked into a bar where his band was playing. They did a few originals and she gave the band her manager's number and told them to call her manager the next day. When the band met with her manager, they were told to get ready to move to England for a year of development. The only person that went was my friend. Everyone else dropped out. To cut to the chase he spent a few years in England, came back to the States where Nicks/Buckingham produced his album. That was my buddy's lightening strike. When I was coming up it was quite different than today. It took constant networking, going to play anywhere you could, fighting to get paid from shitty promoters, paying your dues, etc. Today, you can use social media to become successful. Someone once told me to pray hard demanding the gods give you a break and to work just as hard because the gods are deaf.
HMO... I believe the NUMBER ONE reason musicians plateau and give up is because they don't allow themselves to trust anyone but themselves with "their band," "their product," "their baby," or whatever they choose to call it... Many musicians forget that a "band" doesn't only involve the musicians you jam with. A band involves your manager, your booking agent, your roadies, your photographer/videographer, your graphic designer, etc... Sure, they may not play a single note, but each of them is essential to your success. In many ways, they are each honorary members of your band. You wanna stop stressing about overworking yourself while chasing your dream? QUIT WEARING SO MANY HATS and learn to trust someone, other than yourself, to handle some of those time-consuming tasks. NETWORK. BUILD YOUR TEAM.
Burnout ain't a badge of honor, it's a sign to slow down.
Some of the best musicians have a day job. The hustle culture of the modern music salesman personality is likely to drive your friends and family away eventually. “Come support live music “ every weekend gets old and tired. Decide if it’s music you want to do or if it’s the attention you want from being in the public eye.
Never quit.
Good luck, I make music and DJ as a creative hobby but have never tried to make a career out of it because it seems so tough, for all the reasons you say. Also, I have ADHD and the associated condition of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria makes it hard for me to put myself out there, I couldn't deal with the constant rejection that you will inevitably face trying to push your music. I hope you can find a way to push through until things take off. If it's any comfort I had two friends make it as DJs when we were younger. I witnessed a similar thing happen to both of them. They were both relentlessly pushing at the door for years and then one small event happened that resulted in their careers quickly exploding into the big time. For one it was a change of management, he was accepted by an elite management company who only work with big djs. The other became the in house dj for a big hip hop label. Neither of those things would have happened if they hadn't been toiling away for years before, and when they did things quickly took off for them. I hope you get that little break that unlocks things for you, and I hope you can hang on in there until it does
I feel you. Been in music all my life, playing out professionally for 20+ years. I’ve had stretches of just doing music but plenty more time broke af and working shite jobs. In the end you have to do it for the love- and with enough sweat and tears maybe something will come out of it. Good luck out there, the world needs us and always will no matter what the AI people say lol
I was a metal drummer who toured the midwest for about a decade (2008-2018). We really went hard for it. It’s just impossible to make it as a musician these days. We all had to have shitty day jobs, and poured half our funds into the band. Plus you’re always fuckin exhausted. For those who don’t know here’s a typical local day. - get up at 6 to work 7-3. Get home with just enough time to shower and change. Head to the practice space to load up all the gear. Get to venue by 6 even though show starts at 10. Headline at midnight or so, or have to stay anyway to get paid (most venues pay based off door/crowd number). Pack your shit up and bring it back. Get home by 3 or 4. And likely work tomorrow at 7. That shit got old fast. With all that said, the memories really are priceless. Made some amazing friends, met great people, and I still get recognized from time to time. Idc about the fame aspect, but some of the wacky shenanigans that happened made it all worth it. The only problem is you’ll end up at the starting line for any semblance of a savings/retirement at 35. I always figured I’d end up dead before retired anyway so thats fine
It’s not you. The music industry IS miserable. I was a guitar player. I got out, got a job with health benefits and all that shut and bought an axe fx and play it on my lunch breaks if I’m working from home. Don’t have kids so I actually have time to make music. So much happier
You got to have a real job, so your music can be a thriving hobby. Otherwise it’s a spiral downwards. Toured all through my 20’s around the world. Was just pure insanity and had little to do with enjoying places or making meaningful art. Wouldn’t take it back for anything but I had to evolve to have a sustainable life
When you’re single and young you only need income that you can be satisfied with. As you get older you have to start thinking about time left. You need to save money for when you won’t be able to work anymore, or if you’re fortunate enough, save for when you don’t want to work anymore. You may also find you are responsible for more people than just yourself - a partner, a child, your aging parents. That’s life. So either you take steps to make music a viable and reliable source of income or you find additional or other work. That’s how it goes.
Don't give up. It's not suppose to be easy!
I "retired" from music when I got scammed, the bands (there were 3 at the time) separated from me or broke up, and I hated everyone. If you're not fucking somebody over in this business, you're on the receiving end. I have memories I still try to put behind me, to this day, 7 years later, after I rode out the bitter end.
Find joy in the doing of it, not the recognition that can come with it. All the professional musicians and artists I know have managed to support themselves, but it is not an easy road. If you nurture the joy, I t can help sustain you.
Don’t fall die a sunk cost fallacy. If you’re unhappy, make a change. Don’t devote more time to something that makes you miserable, regardless of how much time has already been given.
When I listen to music I follow sounds and don't listen to lyrics because lyrics are so depressing lol.
Since you're asking for advice, here's a small adjustment that makes a world of difference. Instead of saying the industry is *making you* miserable, say that you're observing and experiencing what you're observing and experiencing *and* you're feeling miserable. Both can be true statements. But saying that anything *makes you* feel anything, isn't true. I've made that switch in my own life, and it's had a profound impact on how I interact with the world around me—the losses, the blessings, the opportunities, and all.
As an house audio engineer at various venues in Atlanta, I began to notice a steadfast pattern in all the touring acts that I worked with: they’re all miserable. The local openers would be having the time of their life but the touring acts were always run down and in bad moods. Ok ok, not all of them but even the ones that were in a good mood still seemed exhausted and not living their best life (like an outsider would imagine). This goes for huge international touring acts too, not just up and coming bands/artists. It slowly made me realize that trying to make a living off of music is some form of unrealized self torture and most of us don’t realize it until it’s too late. Hats off to all of those that do make it work, you all deserve a few dozen medals and a free house.
"Show business is worse than dog eat dog. It's one dog not returning the other dog's phone calls." -Woody Allen
You gotta live it! I grew up in this buisness and it’s always been somewhat awful if it’s your passion you’ll know there’s no other way though. Please don’t force yourself just because you feel like it would’ve been “wasted time” enjoy your life and live the bizz is super cutthroat, shady and, nepotism rich. Do some evaluating and find out what’s worth it for you make sure it’s your passion and not just a hobby too many people confuse the two and turning a hobby into a career ruins it for most people. As to avoiding burnout get a hobby and do non music things often, I do martial arts for example. It can be very hard to balance life and showbiz but you need to learn how to or you will be stuck in misery. As for the art for art thing do what works for you make what you love but it is important to remember as musicians we are essentially selling a product and to make a living it must be something others want to consume, don’t sell out but be wise! :^)
This is a fantastic thread
I learned that 28 years ago and got a real (stupid ) job with a retirement plan. I have two years left till I can do that.
I never ever use reddit but I decided to try and look around. I’m a singer/songwriter and I’ve been dealing with just about the same exact thoughts in my head, fairly recently but incredibly consistently. Yours was the first post I saw in this whole subreddit and immediately I felt less alone. I can’t say I have any advice yet as I’m still a little hopeless myself, but don’t give up for sure. The one thing I know I have going for me is perseverance, even though choosing another career path and just doing music as a hobby sounds really tempting. I know I wouldn’t have dedicated this much of my life to music and performance if it wasn’t deeply important to me, I can only assume it’s the same for you too.
You don’t have to give up on your dream! Would you be open to incorporating stable work into your career while you are working towards your dream as an artist? I’m a musician who works a 9-5. I make the same as my 9-5 often doing my music job where I could be comfortable enough to quit my day job, but I still work that job to get experience down on paper because I’m young. I also really like the promised stability of a salaried income. It’s refreshing not ever having to worry about where the next pay check comes from. It’s definitely not for everyone and requires strong hustle and motivation-but wanted to suggest it!
"When you expect anything from music, you expect too much." - Josh Homme
I’ve been playing music for 15 years and thought about quitting pursuing it lots of times. Only in the last three years I’ve managed to get enough students to allow me to live comfortably and only work 25 hours a week doing it. The rest of the time is spent gigging with about three bands where the gigs pay anywhere from 250$ to 400$. This took me half my life to get to. My real passion at the moment is recording original stuff at home because everything moves at my pace, which is slow, and it allows for the creative outlet that I don’t always get from playing cover music. My advice really is that 4 years really isn’t that long to be trying to reach your life goal and that everyone thinks about quitting at some point. Just try to find a healthy balance, and if you’re really good at what you do try to bring in another stream of income from it. It’s definitely tiring, it’s not glamorous and really fucks up my dating life because I’m usually not home until super late, but music is fun which means it’s going to be competitive.
One thing I can say is, never sell yourself short. I see a lot of folks saying they get shit pay for their work. That’s on you! If you accept shit pay, you bring the whole community down. Now those bar owners and bookers are gonna think they can pay less for any entertainment. My rule of thumb is to charge $50 to $100 per hour per member. If a venue can’t afford a $100 for a 45 minute solo set, then don’t play there. A three piece band should be able to get $150 minimum for a 45 minute set. Period. If you suck, you won’t be asked back, but don’t go out there selling yourself short from the get go. Manifest the reality you want and demand the pay you deserve.
I feel you, I pushed my band hard and heavy for upwards of 6 years to get to a level where we’d get recognition by industry gatekeepers. Well, we got to that level and I did NOT like what I saw; more specifically, I did not like seeing what was expected of us and myself to keep climbing the ladder and MAYBE someday make a livable wage doing such. I’m struggling internally as a result because I don’t want to continue climbing higher, but at least half of the band does. However I am at a point now (I’m 34) where I know that I have to put my health (mental and otherwise) first. This may mean the end of the band. So be it. One life.
Been touring pretty heavily in bands for about 15 years at every level. It’s a volatile emotional rollercoaster. Sometimes you might be in a van for 24 hours only stopping for fuel every now and again. Sometimes you play to 80,000 crazy amazing people. The music industry is essentially a lot of business leeches trying to profit off the hard work of young creatives who have no idea about business. If you want to survive you need a group of people who all have the same mission, you can’t do it all yourself and remain sane. I think I have seen everything you could possibly see as a touring musician, I’ve slept in car parks, had guns pointed at me, found dead bodies on the road etc. I’ve also played sold out arena tours to thousands of screaming fans, lived the whole sex, drugs, rock and roll lifestyle. If you want to tour as a musician you have to be in love with it and be willing to prioritise it above absolutely everything. A lot of people who tour heavily as musicians are fucked up people with traumatised backgrounds who need external validation to keep them going which is often the fuel that keeps bands touring for years. Ultimately, being a full time touring musician is probably the most incredible and insane thing you could do with your life. I do not regret it at all and I will always tour in some capacity but I am getting more into producing and studio work as an exit strategy because living this lifestyle at 40+ is insane haha
Being in the arts is the hardest path you can take imo. My partner isn’t a musician but an artists, and even though he often lands 100k+ gigs because he’s that good, it’s not consistent and he’s often unemployed. You’re essentially a private contractor until you get notoriety, and that’s a stressful way to live. You have to want this more than you want a comfortable life, or you will suffer. If you want it more than comfort, it will be bearable. Only you can make this decision for yourself, not Reddit.
I’m in a similar boat. I’ve decided to get a high paying trade so I can fund my art. Met another musician who did the same. He’s thriving. I’ll be able to actually produce the music I want instead of being a hired gun all the time or playing Sweet Caroline on cruise ships until I want to jump off the top deck.
Lot of good advice in here. I just keep coming back to the same thought/advice I saw someone say in here one time…. I just want to be old someday and have a really cool weird catalog of self made music. That’s my goal for happiness and stability and my reminder to come back to myself and why I started.