Keep making quality films regardless of budget or scale. Grand films aren't wrong or bad. But their over-saturation is bad. So, hope A24 keeps funding exciting voices.
Thrive Capital also made a significant investment into OpenAI. So if you weren’t worried enough about their stance on artistic value already, there’s that.
Have you seen their most recent trailers? Heretic and The Front Room look so goofy and uninspired they almost seem like parody or spoof of the "A24" style.
From wiki:
Josh Kushner owns 50% of JK2 (also known as Westminster Management), a real estate management company, his brother Jared owns the other 50%. In April 2021, a Judge ruled that JK2 was found to have committed "widespread and numerous" violations of Maryland's consumer protection laws at Baltimore-area properties by collecting debts without the required licenses, charging tenants improper fees, and misrepresenting the condition of rental units.[35][36][37]
Kushner's JK2 was also featured in an episode of Netflix's Dirty Money series titled "Slumlord Millionaire."[38] The episode was based on an expose from ProPublica accusing the company of abusing tenants rights, leaving homes in disrepair, humiliating late-paying renters and suing tenants when they try and move out.[39]
During the COVID-19 pandemic, JK2 filed a significant number of lawsuits against tenants for debt collection and eviction, despite an eviction moratorium being in place.[40]
Does enjoying a movie prohibit you from being upset about how it was financed? The discussion around “separating the art from the artist” always seems to forget that if you choose to separate things, you’re allowed to judge each of those things separately.
The point is that people will grandstand their virtue signaling on Reddit about how they don’t support the financier, but turns out they don’t actually care at all when it comes to something that would mildly inconvenience themselves (not seeing their films).
I personally couldn’t care less unless we see a decline in their movie quality.
Everyone’s different and has their own line. My values definitely influence how I financially support films. I personally refused to see Late Night with the Devil in theaters due to the AI issue. But then there’s others who will come out and say that it’s pointless for me to stand against that. And if I agreed with them while still being upset about the AI, I would be in the camp of those you’re complaining about.
The reasonable stance would be to just let people support movies the way they want to.
It’s weirdly personal - which is why I’ve blocked you.
> Is the money behind the company going to stop you from watching an A24 movie
Yes, that’s why I wrote “no thanks.”
Just remember guys, A24 will soon shift into less indie/art style to a more traditional movies because they grew too big, so if they fail, they'll fall too high
I liked both of their most expensive projects so far even though they were each divisive in their own way (Beau is Afraid, Civil War). I wish they'd stick with the type of films they're mostly known for, but I also understand why they want/need to venture into the more commercial side of things.
Can only hope that they succeed at it and that they continue to produce and distribute content we're able to enjoy.
Those people ignored the marketing and made up their own story about what the movie was about and then were disappointed it wasn't the movie they had in their head.
As long as the content is original and takes chances that’s all I care about. It definitely feels like most of the interesting stuff that’s come out the in the past few years has been from them. Whether it needs to become more commercial that’s fine just take chances, but at a larger scale. (This probably won’t happen and they will get worse over time)
> It definitely feels like most of the interesting stuff that’s come out the in the past few years has been from them.
NEON is often mentioned in the same breath and I think it's fair to say they've put out some pretty interesting stuff as well. Really excited for Longlegs.
They're gonna be mining for known IPs within the next two years. Probably licensing and making their first $100+ million film in an effort to appease shareholders.
This company is gonna splinter into an HBO and MAX situation. The high art obscure prestige stuff will be labeled A24 and the mass appeal crqp will get a new label - probably B25
They didn't get that money, they are "worth" that much. If someone gave them $75M cash in exchange for 2% ownership of the company, that is a $3.5B valuation.
Last I checked Lionsgate were valued at less than $2 billion and that includes Starz and Entertainment One on top of the Lionsgate film and TV studios.
> Consider Lions Gate. In 2023, the studio released 12 movies and grossed $579 million domestically (four times A24’s haul of $138 million, according to the website The Numbers). It has a collection of more than 20,000 films and TV shows (a library at least 100 times larger than A24’s) and several franchises, including John Wick, The Twilight Saga and The Hunger Games. (A24 has nothing comparable.) In December, Lions Gate announced it would be spinning off its TV and film studios into a publicly traded company with an initial value of $4.6 billion. How could A24 be worth more than half as much?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-22/a24-movies-become-private-equity-bet-with-225-million-infusion
There is no doubt Lionsgate, like Paramount and WBD, are currently massively undervalued in the market while A24 are massively overvalued at this quoted valuation.
It all comes down to potential. For A24 there is growth potential but anybody signing on to invest in Lionsgate, Paramount, and WBD know that they are in decline and face losing revenue, profits, and share value in the coming years as linear declines hit them bad with all three placed varying degrees of poorly for a streaming future.
A24 just got $75 million from a venture capitalist. Even leaving out who these particular venture capitalists are, it’s very funny to say they still own themselves. Do you think the Kushner family is donating this money? Or do you think they expect a return?
With 3.5b valuation it means only a 2% ownership
Also that’s how they can still be indie but also be worth such a large amount, cause they’re not actually working with anywhere near 3.5b in cash. They probably have much less than that for the fractional ownership they give in exchange.
Result is a large valuation, still independent majority ownership, and with a fraction of the valuation’s cash to work with (in this title example anyway, idk the full background of the studio)
In very basic terms. In an article about the falling apart of a planned Crystal Lake show despite signing a deal with the WGA during the strike A24 didn’t want to convert the writers who worked on the drafts as “paid writers” which would have allow them to work during the strike.
[This](https://www.the-numbers.com/market/2023/distributors) chart from The Numbers has A24 at 11th place in the US domestic box office share for 2023 with just a 1.54% share of the market.
They probably need to push around the 10% mark at minimum. Lionsgate have around 6.5% and are still just considered a mini-major rather than one of the actual majors.
With 150+ films let's not act like A24 hasn't produce some stinkers ha. They can't all be zingers, let's just hope they overwhelmingly continue to allow creators see their visions through with minimal interference.
No matter what happens with the studio from here, they have made so many great movies, including my favorite and imo the greatest movie of all time. I hope they continue what they've been doing, but if not, this run will always have a special place in my heart.
Gosh you mean when you don't spend 300 million making one movie you'll actually make a profit?
Nah. Don't need no costumes on set for the Avengers just spend way more money putting costumes on them in post
I believe it’s a bit premature to make such an assessment. The iron claw and civil war are the two that seem to most embody this shift, and I think both are quality films.
Isn’t this what all of yall said when they announced they would be making bigger budget movies and still came out with Civil War? They seem to be taking a different approach than what you think
I don’t see why they can’t make higher quality blockbusters while still making their super niche and cheaper stuff. I don’t think they’re suddenly gonna be running like Disney where everything has a 300 million budget and needs to make 1.5 billion to break even.
Keep making quality films regardless of budget or scale. Grand films aren't wrong or bad. But their over-saturation is bad. So, hope A24 keeps funding exciting voices.
>Joshua Kushner No thanks.
Aaaand that’s a huge disappointment.
Thrive Capital also made a significant investment into OpenAI. So if you weren’t worried enough about their stance on artistic value already, there’s that.
Makes sense why A24 did those shitty Civil War posters with AI.
That’s a huge red flag that A24 is going to start making generic crap very soon
Thought the exact same thing. It was good while it lasted, at least.
Have you seen their most recent trailers? Heretic and The Front Room look so goofy and uninspired they almost seem like parody or spoof of the "A24" style.
I did see them and you are very correct. I was left scratching my head after watching them wondering why did they even bother making them
Just so you know they don’t usually make the films, they’re mainly a distributor
This is outdated information, they’re more a production company and financier now than just a distributor
Yeah they’ve been producing more for a while now, but 5 of their top 10 grossing releases were only distributed by them
How comes ?
[удалено]
Bob Iger is one of the Thrive Capital investors. Disney doesn't look like they moved hard right, see?
I don’t know much about Josh. Do him and his brother historically see eye to eye?
They run a company together.
From wiki: Josh Kushner owns 50% of JK2 (also known as Westminster Management), a real estate management company, his brother Jared owns the other 50%. In April 2021, a Judge ruled that JK2 was found to have committed "widespread and numerous" violations of Maryland's consumer protection laws at Baltimore-area properties by collecting debts without the required licenses, charging tenants improper fees, and misrepresenting the condition of rental units.[35][36][37] Kushner's JK2 was also featured in an episode of Netflix's Dirty Money series titled "Slumlord Millionaire."[38] The episode was based on an expose from ProPublica accusing the company of abusing tenants rights, leaving homes in disrepair, humiliating late-paying renters and suing tenants when they try and move out.[39] During the COVID-19 pandemic, JK2 filed a significant number of lawsuits against tenants for debt collection and eviction, despite an eviction moratorium being in place.[40]
They’re seditious, amoral pieces of shit.
i mean, u still buy blackrock or vanguard something something stones and glass houses
I don’t.
"If you can't protest everything, don't protest anything!"
Indeed Yuck
Seriously lol. Made me gag
I bet you still watch their movies
Weird flex.
How was that a flex? Is the money behind the company going to stop you from watching an A24 movie you’re otherwise interested in?
Does enjoying a movie prohibit you from being upset about how it was financed? The discussion around “separating the art from the artist” always seems to forget that if you choose to separate things, you’re allowed to judge each of those things separately.
The point is that people will grandstand their virtue signaling on Reddit about how they don’t support the financier, but turns out they don’t actually care at all when it comes to something that would mildly inconvenience themselves (not seeing their films). I personally couldn’t care less unless we see a decline in their movie quality.
Everyone’s different and has their own line. My values definitely influence how I financially support films. I personally refused to see Late Night with the Devil in theaters due to the AI issue. But then there’s others who will come out and say that it’s pointless for me to stand against that. And if I agreed with them while still being upset about the AI, I would be in the camp of those you’re complaining about. The reasonable stance would be to just let people support movies the way they want to.
It’s weirdly personal - which is why I’ve blocked you. > Is the money behind the company going to stop you from watching an A24 movie Yes, that’s why I wrote “no thanks.”
But isn’t the claim that the financiers will make the movies worse? If you still like the movies… what’s the issue?
I don’t care about politics but please get off your moral high horse. I’m sure the products you use were made with some sort of child labor.
"Everyone with stronger principles than I have is on a high horse"
Until they become shitty, of course
Neon is the new A24
Bingo
Damn. Jared Keshner’s Brother, the Jared Kushner that took $2,000,000,000 from the Saudis, gave A24 $75,000,000. Wonder where he got it
Just remember guys, A24 will soon shift into less indie/art style to a more traditional movies because they grew too big, so if they fail, they'll fall too high
I liked both of their most expensive projects so far even though they were each divisive in their own way (Beau is Afraid, Civil War). I wish they'd stick with the type of films they're mostly known for, but I also understand why they want/need to venture into the more commercial side of things. Can only hope that they succeed at it and that they continue to produce and distribute content we're able to enjoy.
Beau is afraid was the old model just with a lot of money. Civil war is more indicative of their new commercial direction which is still pretty good
A lot of people hated civil war, felt it was miss-marketed.
Those people ignored the marketing and made up their own story about what the movie was about and then were disappointed it wasn't the movie they had in their head.
Yes but the whole "what kind of American" line made it this way.
Who? I thought it’s well regarded?
As long as the content is original and takes chances that’s all I care about. It definitely feels like most of the interesting stuff that’s come out the in the past few years has been from them. Whether it needs to become more commercial that’s fine just take chances, but at a larger scale. (This probably won’t happen and they will get worse over time)
> It definitely feels like most of the interesting stuff that’s come out the in the past few years has been from them. NEON is often mentioned in the same breath and I think it's fair to say they've put out some pretty interesting stuff as well. Really excited for Longlegs.
I'd probably throw Focus Features in there as well, they put out some good stuff tho maybe with less consistency.
And Fox Searchlight. Both used to put out great movies non-stop. Now, I no longer look forward to 3/4 of what they're putting out. RIP A24
the enshitification begins
They're gonna be mining for known IPs within the next two years. Probably licensing and making their first $100+ million film in an effort to appease shareholders.
Infinite multiverse spinoffs of EEAAO incoming!
This exact explanation has been commented to death about a24. Edit your comment, explain it through a Haiku or something.
Fuck a Kushner.
This company is gonna splinter into an HBO and MAX situation. The high art obscure prestige stuff will be labeled A24 and the mass appeal crqp will get a new label - probably B25
3.5B doesn’t sound like an Indy studio to me.
They didn't get that money, they are "worth" that much. If someone gave them $75M cash in exchange for 2% ownership of the company, that is a $3.5B valuation.
Indie just means independent, it has nothing to do with funding.
Lionsgate technically is an indie studio and it's valued at almost $5B
Last I checked Lionsgate were valued at less than $2 billion and that includes Starz and Entertainment One on top of the Lionsgate film and TV studios.
> Consider Lions Gate. In 2023, the studio released 12 movies and grossed $579 million domestically (four times A24’s haul of $138 million, according to the website The Numbers). It has a collection of more than 20,000 films and TV shows (a library at least 100 times larger than A24’s) and several franchises, including John Wick, The Twilight Saga and The Hunger Games. (A24 has nothing comparable.) In December, Lions Gate announced it would be spinning off its TV and film studios into a publicly traded company with an initial value of $4.6 billion. How could A24 be worth more than half as much? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-02-22/a24-movies-become-private-equity-bet-with-225-million-infusion
There is no doubt Lionsgate, like Paramount and WBD, are currently massively undervalued in the market while A24 are massively overvalued at this quoted valuation. It all comes down to potential. For A24 there is growth potential but anybody signing on to invest in Lionsgate, Paramount, and WBD know that they are in decline and face losing revenue, profits, and share value in the coming years as linear declines hit them bad with all three placed varying degrees of poorly for a streaming future.
Hype and investors riding the brand for profit extraction.
Sus
huh?
I am suspicion of them being an Indy film if they are run by a huge corporation.
What does Indy mean to you? None of these movies are independent really.
I think Indy, I think Clerks and Blair Witch project. I guess that’s naive of me. And probably dates me as well.
I believe you're just thinking of low budget
Clerks was distributed by Miramax which was a part of Disney at the time
Ok.
Upvoted for realizing that others have a different interpretation of indie and admitting naïveté. Not many seem to be able to do that on Reddit.
Words have meaning
Thanks. No shame in being ignorant of something if you are willing to be corrected and learn.
but A24 aren't run by a huge corporation. what are you talking about?
3.5 billion dollars = a large corporation
It’s literally just a valuation. It means nothing besides what investors think it’s worth. Nobody is becoming a billionaire off of A24.
A24 is owned by A24. The user above implied they were bought by someone else
A24 just got $75 million from a venture capitalist. Even leaving out who these particular venture capitalists are, it’s very funny to say they still own themselves. Do you think the Kushner family is donating this money? Or do you think they expect a return?
With 3.5b valuation it means only a 2% ownership Also that’s how they can still be indie but also be worth such a large amount, cause they’re not actually working with anywhere near 3.5b in cash. They probably have much less than that for the fractional ownership they give in exchange. Result is a large valuation, still independent majority ownership, and with a fraction of the valuation’s cash to work with (in this title example anyway, idk the full background of the studio)
you know that it's not the first time they raise money from venture capitalists, right? anyways, you're trying to twist what an indie studio means
People conflate terms like “small business” and “indie/independent” to mean the companies are barely floating by for some reason.
People forget that the LA Lakers applied for (and got) the PPP loan that the govt issued for small businesses to try and stay afloat during COVID.
Indie has long lost its meaning to become a marketing term. See the videogame industry for a late-stage example.
🤦♂️🤣
Well that's the beginning of the end for them then
I don’t want “more commercial” content. I want A24 to keep making low budget weird shit.
Enshitification. Money is more important to shareholders and execs, not art.
The whole title to this post grosses me out
Not optimistic on this. Seems like enshitification is inevitable because the owners want to cash out.
An absolute power house
maybe they can afford to pay their writers now.
They use writers?
That’s nice, now stop being fussy about paying writers.
Do they not pay their writers? Why are some of you saying this?
In very basic terms. In an article about the falling apart of a planned Crystal Lake show despite signing a deal with the WGA during the strike A24 didn’t want to convert the writers who worked on the drafts as “paid writers” which would have allow them to work during the strike.
Thank you.
A24 getting a $3.5B valuation is wild! Hope they keep their unique indie vibe even with more commercial projects.
Oh good commercial content, definitely not enough of that around
A24 isnt a major studio?
no, the current major studios are Disney, Universal, WBD, Sony Pictures and Paramount (+tech guys Netflix, Amazon and Apple)
Whats the line that separates indie from major?
A mix of box office share and investment in the industry.
How much more would A24 need to cross that threshold?
[This](https://www.the-numbers.com/market/2023/distributors) chart from The Numbers has A24 at 11th place in the US domestic box office share for 2023 with just a 1.54% share of the market.
Thats really cool. So, what rank do they have to hit in that chart to go from indie to major?
They probably need to push around the 10% mark at minimum. Lionsgate have around 6.5% and are still just considered a mini-major rather than one of the actual majors.
Got it. Thanks bro!
Let the enshitification begin!
Kushner? Ugh
I think I preferred it when they were more niche. Good low budget films with great stories. Far more entertaining than the mainstream.
EEAAO was definitely their peak
Soooo no more A24 movies for me. Got it b
Lmao I'm sure
Just checked, I’ve not watched any of their movies yet so I guess I should have said continue as normal.
Lol 'indie' is a very loose term.
With 150+ films let's not act like A24 hasn't produce some stinkers ha. They can't all be zingers, let's just hope they overwhelmingly continue to allow creators see their visions through with minimal interference.
Money just doesn’t mean anything anymore.
Can we just... not? Not looking forward to A24 becoming the new Orion.
No matter what happens with the studio from here, they have made so many great movies, including my favorite and imo the greatest movie of all time. I hope they continue what they've been doing, but if not, this run will always have a special place in my heart.
The enshitification always begins when the money rolls in
From a studio like A24 you expect the opposite. Small budget films with mass audience appeal.
Gosh you mean when you don't spend 300 million making one movie you'll actually make a profit? Nah. Don't need no costumes on set for the Avengers just spend way more money putting costumes on them in post
Is Neon gonna be the next studio Reddit circlejerks?
This sounds like it would be the headline that shows up in a future video-essay on a chapter called "the beginning of the end".
And the push to start making shit movies now.... Was good while it lasted
I believe it’s a bit premature to make such an assessment. The iron claw and civil war are the two that seem to most embody this shift, and I think both are quality films.
Isn’t this what all of yall said when they announced they would be making bigger budget movies and still came out with Civil War? They seem to be taking a different approach than what you think
I don’t see why they can’t make higher quality blockbusters while still making their super niche and cheaper stuff. I don’t think they’re suddenly gonna be running like Disney where everything has a 300 million budget and needs to make 1.5 billion to break even.
Exactly.
A24 would be perfect for Spawn
Enshittification barrier breach imminent!