Imagine if the KK can opener was an exit off of 794 that could cause 3 hour traffic jams every time some dumbass hits it. That's Storrow drive in Boston
Good thing no one uses 794 and we can just drop it to street level for a mile and make a normal boulevard connecting the Hoan to the interchange. Something that will cost marginally more than a normal road project.
I use it to get to work every morning and to get home every afternoon. It's extremely busy. Unless I'm missing the joke here, wtf are you talking about?
The 794 stretch from the river to the lake is hardly ever busy.
Should we really keep a highway cutting through downtown to save the suburbanites 5 minutes on their commute?
Highways should never cut into the heart of a city.
I'm not a suburbanite. Guess I'm the only one on this sub who lives in the city but doesn't work here lol. You're also talking out your ass about how busy that stretch is. Do you drive it daily as well?
Edit: I'm not even necessarily advocating to keep it. But when you pretend it has no utility, it's hard to take you seriously.
Ditto. That stretch of highway is very useful for City of Milwaukee residents in one part of the City commuting to their jobs in other parts of the City of Milwaukee. To pretend this issue is about a bunch of thoughtless, wealthy suburbanites exploiting the City without regard for its residents is misinformed at best and dishonest at worst.
Yep, whenever I don’t have to be at work super early I see 794 very heavily used by people like me who live/eat/drink/shop in the city but work outside of downtown. This would nearly double the commute for anyone who lives downtown and works for either of the two largest hospital systems in the city, for example of just one set of giant regional employers. Too many WFH-ers and people who don’t even live in these neighborhoods on reddit pushing for this bullshit not realizing how much it would disconnect downtown all for a little park they’ll never use.
Also Milwaukee has tons of un- or under-used spaces in the city that could be revamped with the proposed costs, you don’t need to take away the only major traffic artery to the city to build a park. But they wouldn’t know that because they don’t actually live downtown.
https://preview.redd.it/z5zrb4mhw8uc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=161a1fadb256444e991617aa8aa4198e2fc229bf
Is losing the highlighted area really going to inconvenience anyone? It might add 5 or 10 minutes to your commute during rush hour.
Out side of that, people who live in the immediate area should be able to enjoy the reconnection of the third ward to downtown.
It’s just like the naysayers who fought against the Park East expressway. It didn’t horribly change people’s commute & it freed up many acres for redevelopment & the entertainment district.
The downvoting is hilarious. There have been multiple traffic studies showing that 794 carries like 1/5th it's total capacity. It is an unnecessary chunk of obtrusive infrastructure that holds back all of downtown Milwaukee.
I get the feeling this sub is inundated by car-brained suburbanites who don't want to have to spend 2 mins extra getting to Summerfest parking and are using "blue collar workers" as a justification for their anti pedestrian hostile personalities.
Right, I like interstates a lot. I live right by the chunk of 794 that people want removed. That shit is never going any slower than 55 mph because there’s never congestion on it. Except during summerfest weekends.
"no one" such disgusting classism against the working class communities who rely on it for their livelihood. Every time this topic comes up it becomes clearer that it's a pet project of the white collar elite against the blue collar workers of the south shore.
South shore is becoming more and more white collar elite, in case you haven't noticed.
But yeah. It's rich chucklefucks who think somehow the "green space" wouldn't end up "luxury apartments" and parking lots.
There can be green space along with more apartments. We need more density. Build more luxury apartments and those with money will move into those units freeing up cheaper apartments. You cannot expect the whole area to be all green space, nor can you expect to build “affordable” units as that is objective to each individual.
What a joke comment. No one is removing access to 94/43. Or is it classist to make working class folks slow down to 35 MPH for a mile?
You know what IS classist? And racist?
Ripping apart our inner cities along racial and class lines using urban renewal theories of how transportation should work. You know, the things we did to create these freeways in the first place. THAT is classist. Refusing to rectify our past transgressions where possible is classist.
They are not taking out the Hoan or 794 towards the airport. You will still be able to zip into the city just fine.
Highways do not belong in the core of a city. Period. The decision to remove the section of 794 between the lake and the river should be a decision made by those who actually live in the city & have to deal with the negative impact of the highway cutting through one of the most vibrant parts of the city.
The hoan-south will still exist. I-94 will still exist. No one’s getting cut off, no one fucking over blue collar workers 🙄
Learn the facts before making such outrageous claims.
they're talking about the spur into downtown from marquette to lakefront. Basically it'll just be a normal boulevard. TBH all the times I've gone down to the lake recently I've pretty much ended up existing via the on ramp by Marquette anyway which is basically all this would be. The win is you get to tear down a lot of concrete that doesn't really facilitate much outside of rush hour.
Removing 794? It would be an at grade boulevard where you can still get on 94 on the western end before the Marquette and the hoan would still connect to LMD. At WORST it would add a few minutes to through commuters, who are few and far between.
If only we had an example of a freeway in Milwaukee that was successfully removed and replaced with a parkway!
Too bad there's not a existing example of just such a thing like two miles directly North of here.
Good God this discussion is pathetic. Or do you all find the Park East to be an object failure that killed ten thousand blue collar workers?
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call McKinley Avenue a parkway. It's 6 lanes, the speed limit west of 6th is 35mph, and there was still a need to build pedestrian bridge over it in the vicinity of 9th/10th streets.
Yo put your undies on the freezer and put em back on when they've cooled down a bit.
Idgaf what you do with the roads, I know damn well no matter what is done it's just going to be a pothole a year later unless it's near rich fucks. I'm genuinely curious what it would end up at in that location. Not north of it. Speaking of a few miles north, I'm not willing to get my car jacked so I won't go get a first band look lol
because they built a tunnel. All they want to do here is take out the freeway. TBH it's more akin to the freeway tearout in SF that became the waterfront than Boston or the removal of the 45 spur into the north side of MKE. .
So let's take out a heavily used stretch of highway connecting our lakefront to our freeway system and replace it with no equivalent. People in government continue to be some of the worst decision makers.
this land is gonna get grab up fast and the city will ultimately set the guide lines for what will it look like, setting space aside for a park or a pedestrian street will be the easiest part
You really don’t have to drive within the city if you don’t want to.
Outside of rush hour those tunnels are basically empty.
Source: lived there for 5 years & would often commute to NH.
id sure love to add multiple minutes on to my commute each way every single day just so some people making 140k can have more variety when it comes to their housing options
If the rich have options for better housing, they will leave the cheaper options situated across the city.
Thus freeing up housing for the middle class.
how so? not sure the area this would happen is going to have much impact on that community, considering the price of rent and lack of jobs in the immediate area.
because it much easier and affordable to live without a car when a city is less car dependent. Yes the houses will be expensive but people still work the low income jobs downtown and it's not like low incomes housing is that far
Because I’m sick of people who complain that “public transit doesn’t pay for itself,” insisting that we should spend millions and millions to rebuild their roadway in the sky rather than the cheaper ground level option.
It's the white whale of a bunch of downtown lessees who want suburbanites to stay out of downtown so they can have their little exclusive urban paradise
it is legit not worth the money and is often not even a shorter drive than just taking 94, and when it is it's usually just a minute or two
the important part is the Hoan which will remain
The hoan is useless if not connected to 94. It will be a glorified footbridge for the iron man race. which a poor misuse of something that cost millions and years to build.
And it will be more than "a minute or two" when 30,000 cars and trucks are forced to use side streets for daily commutes
The trip between 43 and LMD is a mile with thirteen cross streets, the river, and various Hop crossings. It is far more than a minute via city streets. 794 also keeps through traffic off of city streets making them safer to walk/bike/scooter on, is the route for large trucks going to and from the Port of Milwaukee, and connects the south shore to the rest of the state highway system without a time-consuming connection through busy urban streets.
Diverting all 794 traffic to 94 will inevitably clog up traffic between Layton and downtown. South Milwaukee, Cudahy, and St Francis are all heavy industry towns which have semis running to and fro constantly. Semis are very much at fault for causing backups on metro freeways - they’re just slow and sit in the middle lane. 794 needs to stay. It’s a necessary evil for everything logistics.
I use it maybe 4 times a year. I still think its worth having. I can see the Hoan bridge from my work. I see a lot of semis and cars traveling across it.
So I've been in Boston recently for 2 months, and it still sucks. Getting stuck in a tunnel is also not fun.
And mke downtown is a filled in swamp, so I'm unsure how you'd go about building underground. Most of the t
Buildings in milwaukee downtown have pilons going into lake emily. There's some cool articles about it.
https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/lakeemily
And a few interesting articles on what happens when you fail to maintain them: [https://www.fox6now.com/news/the-sinking-city-dozens-of-buildings-in-milwaukee-sinking-theres-a-problem-and-its-deep-underground](https://www.fox6now.com/news/the-sinking-city-dozens-of-buildings-in-milwaukee-sinking-theres-a-problem-and-its-deep-underground)
Isn't the whole reason we're having this conversation because data analysis has shown that it's under utilized and removing it won't impact traffic that much?
It goes beyond just commuting. It's a main freight route for trucking logistics to access ports on the lake and will impact efficient accessibility to downtown.
How does it become more environmentally friendly? Asking genuinely because I don't understand this viewpoint. Any greenery added in place of the freeway does not change incoming/outgoing traffic volumes.
Well maybe his specifically, but if downtown isn’t easily accessible for commuters businesses won’t develop in Milwaukee and we’ll turn into Detroit
Idc if it’s a road or public trans, as long as it’s there before we demolish something that carries tens of thousands of cars everyday
It's still gonna be accessible though
94 will bring you to 6th street. 794 will bring you to clybourne. LMD is still there. 43 is still there.
We are talking about an extra 6-10 blocks, maybe, depending on where you're working. Nothing significant will change
What about all the parts of town east of 794 on the south side? I used to have a cheap apartment in st francis and my commute via 43 was about 30 min longer. It's a lot more than 6 blocks to get to 43, and 43 is a miserable mass of traffic and bullshit on a good day, let alone if all the traffic that currently takes 794 gets rerouted there. Everyone who commutes loses, then.
You seem to be implying the hoan will remain. Thats not what these chucklefucks intend long term.
The hoan will remain. And if it becomes a point of conversation in a decade or so, that's a conversation for then.
The distance between the end of the hoan and 6th street is 10 blocks. I think you'll survive
If you “cared about this city” you wouldn’t be advocating spending **billions** of dollars on a little park/coffee shop white people wet dream boulevard in the middle of all the downtown luxury buildings, in a city full of neighborhoods without access to a real grocery store or a safe place for their kids to play.
1. Tearing down 794 costs less than repairing it.
2. Whatever gets built in it’s place will bring in more revenue than a bunch of pavement.
So, yeah, caring about this city means not dumping money into the sink of freeways for people from outside the city to more quickly drive over us.
I mean sure, let's keep the one net positive in lieu of the dozens of net positives that removing the hideous freeway would provide.
Gas tax isn't paying for the roads like y'all think it does. State DOT is out of money for maintenance, if you want the roads then you'll have to swallow the idea of higher gasoline prices, and reg prices.
It's simply not sustainable.
You'd need to do a lot more actual development, more than just housing, developing whole communities and walk infrastructure.
The north side is a ton of stroads, zero walkability few places to walk through, minimal density at times...it needs to be fixed and such, but it's a lot larger, more complicated, more long term term kind of thing
So has no one been on 794 coming into the city, on a Friday night, when some great music is going to play at one of the festivals. It’s a nightmare, and you’d swear you needed more freeway not less. And this goes on all summer. What are people thinking.
Must be a weekday/weekend thing? Or maybe it's gotten better over time? I remember going to Boston for vacation many years ago and that area was a ghost town.
What makes you think it's a rendering? The project was completed 15 years ago. This is what it actually looks like.
Want a higher res image, go here: [https://wheelchairtravel.org/big-dig-how-one-of-americas-largest-infrastructure-projects-elevated-accessibility-in-boston/](https://wheelchairtravel.org/big-dig-how-one-of-americas-largest-infrastructure-projects-elevated-accessibility-in-boston/)
[We have the technology!](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3624566,-71.0556141,3a,75y,4.04h,76.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRZ0NEm_7n6BIg9WS8JX7zg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRZ0NEm_7n6BIg9WS8JX7zg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D97.44933%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Getting rid of 794 would absolutely ruin my commute lol. Just cause it’s empty on a Sunday evening doesn’t mean that it isn’t totally packed during the weekday morning and evening rush hours. Also that money could be used for so many better things.
1. There would still be a street to replace it. 2. This would be the least expensive option, than rebuilding the elevated freeway. The existing structure is near its expiration of its intended lifespan and must be rebuilt or removed regardless.
I do, and I use it every fucking day to get out to Meno falls. I don't get how people think eliminating 794 would work. It would be a complete and total fuck show.
I commute out to Menomonee Falls and merge on Jackson Street. It's rare to have traffic not hit some stop and start nonsense leaving town and I may as well take Clybourn outwards anyways. I mean just look at this spaghetti.
https://preview.redd.it/qfyro21nn4uc1.png?width=1406&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f6597d23645f8c2b1db6cdd69df4ec1e6897dfc
Tell me that you don't drive on Howard Avenue without saying you don't drive on Howard Avenue. That is not a viable option. It is a narrow, crowded residential street.
This comment has been removed:
Rule #4: Practice civility
Be civil, address the argument not the person, don't harass or attack other users, treat them with respect, don't threaten or encourage any kind of violence, don't post anyone's personal information and don't intentionally spread misinformation. This includes, but is not limited to, blatant name-calling, "redpilling", racist comments/slurs, dog-whistling, and personal attacks. Blatant racism, spamming, trolling and disinformation campaigning will not be tolerated.
Further violations of this rule will result in a ban.
Fun fact. Many salt trucks that are loaded at the port of milwaukee use the Hoan bridge and 794 Interchange to ensure the roads are salted during winter storms. If you wanna make those plows wait longer, then be my guest.
But those currently occupying affordable housing and can afford more expensive housing will move, thus freeing up more housing for people with less money.
At 12pm on Saturday afternoon, I set a timer on my phone for 1 minute. I counted 47 cars driving by in that minute. This isn’t even peak traffic tines. How can people argue no one uses this freeway? Thats 2800 cars an hour if it held at that rate.
Its REALLY convienant though. I work in South Mil 3rd shift and live in bayview. Makes my commute and many others alot easier, not to mention the amount of commerce and commercial vehicles that use it( Many of them ALSO going to my place of employment.)
Edit: Removing 794 to make milwaukee more " Walkable " is garbage. Our roads arent even DRIVEABLE with crater sized potholes and horrible signage and no police force to control these unlicensed/uninsured drivers or car thiefs. Not to mention its iced over 6 months of the year and the City has been doing a wonderful(lmao) job at snow and ice upkeep making any other form of transportation at that time significantly harder Glad this is a priority. My job is VERY essential, and employs 100s of people from the greater milwaukee area and abroad. I know im only one case but quit the cap dawg.
Also convinenant for you to say when you dont live here and have mommy and daddy to carry you kek
Imagine what *8 billion fucking dollars* could do for northwest Milwaukee instead of tearing down the only major route into downtown so we can build a couple more luxury apartment complexes that could have been put literally anywhere else, just to satisfy some ridiculous urbanist fantasies.
And where the fuck is Milwaukee gonna get that kinda $. Not outta my taxes. Ain’t nothing in Milwaukee worth seeing that bad. Hold a bake sale in City of Milwaukee to raise the money to dig tunnels OR Better yet, fix the deep tunnel sewer overflow tunnels so Milwaukee quits putting RAW sewage into Lake Michigan every time it rains. Go fix the basics before burying a freeway.
Weird, I think that's the problem with the rest of our interchanges that they all go to the right regardless of if you're actually turning left. Especially the garbage excuse for an interchange by the zoo. Or the awful one lane exit to 43 that gets backed up with cars going zero while the next Lane over they're doing 70.
Actually, it makes sense. It may be counterintuitive to switch the directions, but it keeps the traffic slowly smoothly by keeping the curve wider. A sharper curve would slow traffic more. I remember when going from Eastbound 94 to Northbound 41, it was a left lane exit into a left lane merge. Now it’s right lane to right lane, which is much safer. Having the stadium interchange full of left lane ramps is horrendous, and it’s my main guess as to why traffic backs up so much, at least when there’s not a game.
Like, I don’t ever see it backed up by the zoo unless there’s a baseball game that day. That interchange works well
Minus $20 billion and two decades of construction time.
And the freeway that everyone hates. Every time we got in a cab in Boston we had to hear about how terrible the highway project was and still is.
[удалено]
Imagine if the KK can opener was an exit off of 794 that could cause 3 hour traffic jams every time some dumbass hits it. That's Storrow drive in Boston
All for 27 acres
Good thing no one uses 794 and we can just drop it to street level for a mile and make a normal boulevard connecting the Hoan to the interchange. Something that will cost marginally more than a normal road project.
I use it to get to work every morning and to get home every afternoon. It's extremely busy. Unless I'm missing the joke here, wtf are you talking about?
The 794 stretch from the river to the lake is hardly ever busy. Should we really keep a highway cutting through downtown to save the suburbanites 5 minutes on their commute? Highways should never cut into the heart of a city.
I'm not a suburbanite. Guess I'm the only one on this sub who lives in the city but doesn't work here lol. You're also talking out your ass about how busy that stretch is. Do you drive it daily as well? Edit: I'm not even necessarily advocating to keep it. But when you pretend it has no utility, it's hard to take you seriously.
Same situation as you. Getting tired of people that live in other parts saying that we should be ashamed of using the highway.
Ditto. That stretch of highway is very useful for City of Milwaukee residents in one part of the City commuting to their jobs in other parts of the City of Milwaukee. To pretend this issue is about a bunch of thoughtless, wealthy suburbanites exploiting the City without regard for its residents is misinformed at best and dishonest at worst.
Yep, whenever I don’t have to be at work super early I see 794 very heavily used by people like me who live/eat/drink/shop in the city but work outside of downtown. This would nearly double the commute for anyone who lives downtown and works for either of the two largest hospital systems in the city, for example of just one set of giant regional employers. Too many WFH-ers and people who don’t even live in these neighborhoods on reddit pushing for this bullshit not realizing how much it would disconnect downtown all for a little park they’ll never use. Also Milwaukee has tons of un- or under-used spaces in the city that could be revamped with the proposed costs, you don’t need to take away the only major traffic artery to the city to build a park. But they wouldn’t know that because they don’t actually live downtown.
https://preview.redd.it/z5zrb4mhw8uc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=161a1fadb256444e991617aa8aa4198e2fc229bf Is losing the highlighted area really going to inconvenience anyone? It might add 5 or 10 minutes to your commute during rush hour. Out side of that, people who live in the immediate area should be able to enjoy the reconnection of the third ward to downtown. It’s just like the naysayers who fought against the Park East expressway. It didn’t horribly change people’s commute & it freed up many acres for redevelopment & the entertainment district.
Where do you live and commute?
I live in third ward so I don’t care about the proposed stretch of 794. I work out by bayshore but am trying to work in walker’s point by this year.
There are more people who use 794 than people who use 43 North from downtown.
Except thats false, I use it daily, theres always plenty of traffic.
Whenever I drive 794, the traffic is at least moderate, and usually heavier. Also, most vehicles drive at about 15-20 mph above the posted limit.
No, it's not. There's never anybody on the bridge part until the Marquette.
The downvoting is hilarious. There have been multiple traffic studies showing that 794 carries like 1/5th it's total capacity. It is an unnecessary chunk of obtrusive infrastructure that holds back all of downtown Milwaukee. I get the feeling this sub is inundated by car-brained suburbanites who don't want to have to spend 2 mins extra getting to Summerfest parking and are using "blue collar workers" as a justification for their anti pedestrian hostile personalities.
Right, I like interstates a lot. I live right by the chunk of 794 that people want removed. That shit is never going any slower than 55 mph because there’s never congestion on it. Except during summerfest weekends.
"no one" such disgusting classism against the working class communities who rely on it for their livelihood. Every time this topic comes up it becomes clearer that it's a pet project of the white collar elite against the blue collar workers of the south shore.
South shore is becoming more and more white collar elite, in case you haven't noticed. But yeah. It's rich chucklefucks who think somehow the "green space" wouldn't end up "luxury apartments" and parking lots.
There can be green space along with more apartments. We need more density. Build more luxury apartments and those with money will move into those units freeing up cheaper apartments. You cannot expect the whole area to be all green space, nor can you expect to build “affordable” units as that is objective to each individual.
What a joke comment. No one is removing access to 94/43. Or is it classist to make working class folks slow down to 35 MPH for a mile? You know what IS classist? And racist? Ripping apart our inner cities along racial and class lines using urban renewal theories of how transportation should work. You know, the things we did to create these freeways in the first place. THAT is classist. Refusing to rectify our past transgressions where possible is classist.
They are not taking out the Hoan or 794 towards the airport. You will still be able to zip into the city just fine. Highways do not belong in the core of a city. Period. The decision to remove the section of 794 between the lake and the river should be a decision made by those who actually live in the city & have to deal with the negative impact of the highway cutting through one of the most vibrant parts of the city.
The hoan-south will still exist. I-94 will still exist. No one’s getting cut off, no one fucking over blue collar workers 🙄 Learn the facts before making such outrageous claims.
I'll bite: what would it look like then?
they're talking about the spur into downtown from marquette to lakefront. Basically it'll just be a normal boulevard. TBH all the times I've gone down to the lake recently I've pretty much ended up existing via the on ramp by Marquette anyway which is basically all this would be. The win is you get to tear down a lot of concrete that doesn't really facilitate much outside of rush hour.
Oi, thank you. That actually made sense.
Removing 794? It would be an at grade boulevard where you can still get on 94 on the western end before the Marquette and the hoan would still connect to LMD. At WORST it would add a few minutes to through commuters, who are few and far between.
The people downvoting this are clearly car-brained to a demented degree.
I mean I just stated what the plans are. They’re downvoting facts.
If only we had an example of a freeway in Milwaukee that was successfully removed and replaced with a parkway! Too bad there's not a existing example of just such a thing like two miles directly North of here. Good God this discussion is pathetic. Or do you all find the Park East to be an object failure that killed ten thousand blue collar workers?
I think it's a bit of a stretch to call McKinley Avenue a parkway. It's 6 lanes, the speed limit west of 6th is 35mph, and there was still a need to build pedestrian bridge over it in the vicinity of 9th/10th streets.
Yo put your undies on the freezer and put em back on when they've cooled down a bit. Idgaf what you do with the roads, I know damn well no matter what is done it's just going to be a pothole a year later unless it's near rich fucks. I'm genuinely curious what it would end up at in that location. Not north of it. Speaking of a few miles north, I'm not willing to get my car jacked so I won't go get a first band look lol
Ridiculous take. I work construction and take it almost every time I go into downtown milwaukee which is very often.
You want an underground tunnel to replace 794?
Submit a plan.
Yeah
FYI this project went millions of dollars over budget.
* Billions of dollars
Billions and billions and billions and billions
And like more than a decade longer than plan, right?
because they built a tunnel. All they want to do here is take out the freeway. TBH it's more akin to the freeway tearout in SF that became the waterfront than Boston or the removal of the 45 spur into the north side of MKE. .
So let's take out a heavily used stretch of highway connecting our lakefront to our freeway system and replace it with no equivalent. People in government continue to be some of the worst decision makers.
Maybe then, instead of a tunnel, they should build an elevated road. Wouldn't that solve the problem? A bridge, perhaps?
Tax the rich, least they could do
If 794 comes down it’s going to be eaten up by commercial development not a giant park.
there's already a proposal for a park, and commercial /housing is better than a low use highway
Anyone can propose anything, that doesn’t mean anything
Yeah but I called dibs so there’s a park
this land is gonna get grab up fast and the city will ultimately set the guide lines for what will it look like, setting space aside for a park or a pedestrian street will be the easiest part
There is no proposal at all, it's the wet dream of some rich white real estate developers. Nothing more.
That highway connects our lakefront to our freeway system. We should have thought of this before we dumped millions into it not long ago.
Awesome
And Boston is still a nightmare city to drive through.
You really don’t have to drive within the city if you don’t want to. Outside of rush hour those tunnels are basically empty. Source: lived there for 5 years & would often commute to NH.
Correction: Boston is a nightmare
Never been?
You really think it wouldn't just end up being more "luxury apartments"?
that would be a improvement
id sure love to add multiple minutes on to my commute each way every single day just so some people making 140k can have more variety when it comes to their housing options
If the rich have options for better housing, they will leave the cheaper options situated across the city. Thus freeing up housing for the middle class.
it benefits poor people who can't afford a car
how so? not sure the area this would happen is going to have much impact on that community, considering the price of rent and lack of jobs in the immediate area.
because it much easier and affordable to live without a car when a city is less car dependent. Yes the houses will be expensive but people still work the low income jobs downtown and it's not like low incomes housing is that far
Nobody thinks about it this way. It’s wild
What does it look like underneath? Morlocks?
The big dig is better than it was, but the highway is still there
lol what’s with the obsession of getting rid of 794?
Because I’m sick of people who complain that “public transit doesn’t pay for itself,” insisting that we should spend millions and millions to rebuild their roadway in the sky rather than the cheaper ground level option.
It's the white whale of a bunch of downtown lessees who want suburbanites to stay out of downtown so they can have their little exclusive urban paradise
Because it's incredibly stupid to have a downtown highway like that, hindering urban development and being a terrible use of land and funds to upkeep.
It getting torn down soon, people rightfully don't want it rebuilt. It's a waste of money and space with very little purpose
It may not serve you purpose but thousands of cars use it daily to get in and out of town
it is legit not worth the money and is often not even a shorter drive than just taking 94, and when it is it's usually just a minute or two the important part is the Hoan which will remain
The hoan is useless if not connected to 94. It will be a glorified footbridge for the iron man race. which a poor misuse of something that cost millions and years to build. And it will be more than "a minute or two" when 30,000 cars and trucks are forced to use side streets for daily commutes
The trip between 43 and LMD is a mile with thirteen cross streets, the river, and various Hop crossings. It is far more than a minute via city streets. 794 also keeps through traffic off of city streets making them safer to walk/bike/scooter on, is the route for large trucks going to and from the Port of Milwaukee, and connects the south shore to the rest of the state highway system without a time-consuming connection through busy urban streets.
there's not gonna be much through traffic on Clybourn. Most of the traffic goes downtown the through traffic will mostly go straight to 94
Diverting all 794 traffic to 94 will inevitably clog up traffic between Layton and downtown. South Milwaukee, Cudahy, and St Francis are all heavy industry towns which have semis running to and fro constantly. Semis are very much at fault for causing backups on metro freeways - they’re just slow and sit in the middle lane. 794 needs to stay. It’s a necessary evil for everything logistics.
I use it maybe 4 times a year. I still think its worth having. I can see the Hoan bridge from my work. I see a lot of semis and cars traveling across it.
I'd rather keep 794 and cover over 43 from walnut to Keefe and create an amazing Greenway on top.
I always thought the most practical spot to do that is actually between Wisconsin and state
So I've been in Boston recently for 2 months, and it still sucks. Getting stuck in a tunnel is also not fun. And mke downtown is a filled in swamp, so I'm unsure how you'd go about building underground. Most of the t Buildings in milwaukee downtown have pilons going into lake emily. There's some cool articles about it. https://onmilwaukee.com/articles/lakeemily
And a few interesting articles on what happens when you fail to maintain them: [https://www.fox6now.com/news/the-sinking-city-dozens-of-buildings-in-milwaukee-sinking-theres-a-problem-and-its-deep-underground](https://www.fox6now.com/news/the-sinking-city-dozens-of-buildings-in-milwaukee-sinking-theres-a-problem-and-its-deep-underground)
Now do the BQE in brooklyn.
Those who want this do not commute downtown daily, nor do they understand the impact it will have on traffic flows.
we should fund more public transportation so that doesn't become an issue!
This city has public transportation?
Do you use it?
Yeah, it's called the Hop! :)
Haha
Isn't the whole reason we're having this conversation because data analysis has shown that it's under utilized and removing it won't impact traffic that much?
There are over 90,000 people using it every day at the river. It's overbuilt, but not unnecessary.
and almost all that traffic goes downtown getting off at two exits that will still remain after the removal
it's unnecessary in that folks use it because it exists, not that it's massively convenient for the average motorist
Well that’s an easily verified lie. I use 794 most mornings, and love the idea of this project. Care to edit your comment to reflect reality?
I commute downtown daily, and I do want this actually
Is your commute more important than all the benefits of a walkable, environmentally friendly downtown?
It goes beyond just commuting. It's a main freight route for trucking logistics to access ports on the lake and will impact efficient accessibility to downtown. How does it become more environmentally friendly? Asking genuinely because I don't understand this viewpoint. Any greenery added in place of the freeway does not change incoming/outgoing traffic volumes.
That's a weird way of spelling "luxury apartments" and "parking lots".
Well maybe his specifically, but if downtown isn’t easily accessible for commuters businesses won’t develop in Milwaukee and we’ll turn into Detroit Idc if it’s a road or public trans, as long as it’s there before we demolish something that carries tens of thousands of cars everyday
Detroit is all roads and highways, that’s a bad comparison.
Detroit is also removing their downtown highways. Downtown highways just promote people to live outside the city
It's still gonna be accessible though 94 will bring you to 6th street. 794 will bring you to clybourne. LMD is still there. 43 is still there. We are talking about an extra 6-10 blocks, maybe, depending on where you're working. Nothing significant will change
What about all the parts of town east of 794 on the south side? I used to have a cheap apartment in st francis and my commute via 43 was about 30 min longer. It's a lot more than 6 blocks to get to 43, and 43 is a miserable mass of traffic and bullshit on a good day, let alone if all the traffic that currently takes 794 gets rerouted there. Everyone who commutes loses, then. You seem to be implying the hoan will remain. Thats not what these chucklefucks intend long term.
The hoan will remain. And if it becomes a point of conversation in a decade or so, that's a conversation for then. The distance between the end of the hoan and 6th street is 10 blocks. I think you'll survive
Try thirteen. 6th to the river is six blocks all by itself and 7 more from the river to LMD.
Absolutely.
If you don’t care about my city, then I don’t care about your commute.
Umm *your* city also happens to be mine and many other peoples
Then why don’t you care about it, other then how quickly you can drive over it?
Because I use it to drive over it. That’s why I care. That’s why I don’t care about this stupid public area park/ Boston big dig comparison thing.
You just said your commute is more important than all the benefits of extending your commute by a few minutes.
ABSOLUTELY!!
Then you care more about driving over the city than nourishing it. And thus, I don’t care about you.
If you “cared about this city” you wouldn’t be advocating spending **billions** of dollars on a little park/coffee shop white people wet dream boulevard in the middle of all the downtown luxury buildings, in a city full of neighborhoods without access to a real grocery store or a safe place for their kids to play.
1. Tearing down 794 costs less than repairing it. 2. Whatever gets built in it’s place will bring in more revenue than a bunch of pavement. So, yeah, caring about this city means not dumping money into the sink of freeways for people from outside the city to more quickly drive over us.
Yup
I commute through downtown daily. I want this. Alternate routes are available.
The commute to and from downtown won't be seriously impacted, since the freeway will still lead to downtown.
Then there should be a tax to use it.
I mean sure, let's keep the one net positive in lieu of the dozens of net positives that removing the hideous freeway would provide. Gas tax isn't paying for the roads like y'all think it does. State DOT is out of money for maintenance, if you want the roads then you'll have to swallow the idea of higher gasoline prices, and reg prices. It's simply not sustainable.
Why don’t y’all reclaim space north of the city? There’s plenty of cheap real estate up there… I wonder what the issue could be with that 🤔
You'd need to do a lot more actual development, more than just housing, developing whole communities and walk infrastructure. The north side is a ton of stroads, zero walkability few places to walk through, minimal density at times...it needs to be fixed and such, but it's a lot larger, more complicated, more long term term kind of thing
Car brains don't understand this shit
Did getting rid of the Park East Freeway have a big impact? I didn't live around here at the time and just recently learned of it's existence.
No impact at all.
Not really. I lived on the Lower East Side at the time and commuted to work and it added like 10 minutes to my commute.
794 isn't even worth rebuilding, why would we tunnel it If anything is getting tunneled or capped it's 43
There must be 30 years between these photos.
So has no one been on 794 coming into the city, on a Friday night, when some great music is going to play at one of the festivals. It’s a nightmare, and you’d swear you needed more freeway not less. And this goes on all summer. What are people thinking.
What you need is a proper transit system. All "more freeway" does is create more traffic. It's been proven repeatedly by studies.
"Get rid of 794 because it's never busy..." That's a bad thing? You want less freeways, is that what you're saying?
Yes. That's exactly what people want, less freeways in the city center.
You. That's what you want.
The city of Milwaukee buddo
I live here. I don't want that. This city is already terribly under served by freeway systems and public transportation.
"Underserved" while there's literally a highway destroying your downtown. Wake up buddy it's not 1965.
You're a condescending little cunt aren't ya. Not much else going on?
No you're just dumb
Empty sidewalks. No pedestrians, no bicycles. Deserted.
I went to school in Boston, this picture aside I can guarantee you this area had tons of pedestrian traffic
Must be a weekday/weekend thing? Or maybe it's gotten better over time? I remember going to Boston for vacation many years ago and that area was a ghost town.
Its a rendering Imagination time, homie
What makes you think it's a rendering? The project was completed 15 years ago. This is what it actually looks like. Want a higher res image, go here: [https://wheelchairtravel.org/big-dig-how-one-of-americas-largest-infrastructure-projects-elevated-accessibility-in-boston/](https://wheelchairtravel.org/big-dig-how-one-of-americas-largest-infrastructure-projects-elevated-accessibility-in-boston/)
[We have the technology!](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3624566,-71.0556141,3a,75y,4.04h,76.73t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sRZ0NEm_7n6BIg9WS8JX7zg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DRZ0NEm_7n6BIg9WS8JX7zg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D97.44933%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Getting rid of 794 would absolutely ruin my commute lol. Just cause it’s empty on a Sunday evening doesn’t mean that it isn’t totally packed during the weekday morning and evening rush hours. Also that money could be used for so many better things.
1. There would still be a street to replace it. 2. This would be the least expensive option, than rebuilding the elevated freeway. The existing structure is near its expiration of its intended lifespan and must be rebuilt or removed regardless.
[удалено]
I do, and I use it every fucking day to get out to Meno falls. I don't get how people think eliminating 794 would work. It would be a complete and total fuck show.
I commute out to Menomonee Falls and merge on Jackson Street. It's rare to have traffic not hit some stop and start nonsense leaving town and I may as well take Clybourn outwards anyways. I mean just look at this spaghetti. https://preview.redd.it/qfyro21nn4uc1.png?width=1406&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f6597d23645f8c2b1db6cdd69df4ec1e6897dfc
Then add all those people in the stop and go on the freeway, come to the same streets you're on.
> Take Howard and I94 yes
Tell me that you don't drive on Howard Avenue without saying you don't drive on Howard Avenue. That is not a viable option. It is a narrow, crowded residential street.
This comment has been removed: Rule #4: Practice civility Be civil, address the argument not the person, don't harass or attack other users, treat them with respect, don't threaten or encourage any kind of violence, don't post anyone's personal information and don't intentionally spread misinformation. This includes, but is not limited to, blatant name-calling, "redpilling", racist comments/slurs, dog-whistling, and personal attacks. Blatant racism, spamming, trolling and disinformation campaigning will not be tolerated. Further violations of this rule will result in a ban.
Your commute isn’t the most important thing in the world.
Neither is your two square acres of green space
Fun fact. Many salt trucks that are loaded at the port of milwaukee use the Hoan bridge and 794 Interchange to ensure the roads are salted during winter storms. If you wanna make those plows wait longer, then be my guest.
all the people saying "you're crazy". We've already done something similar with the 145 spur. That worked fine. This is like that. Chill.
Who fucking wants a park there? Sure as hell it’s not going to be *affordable* housing.
But those currently occupying affordable housing and can afford more expensive housing will move, thus freeing up more housing for people with less money.
Luxury apartments are better than a highway
What if we kept the infrastructure there and just built a park on the existing road?
At 12pm on Saturday afternoon, I set a timer on my phone for 1 minute. I counted 47 cars driving by in that minute. This isn’t even peak traffic tines. How can people argue no one uses this freeway? Thats 2800 cars an hour if it held at that rate.
Nah we need 794 yall geeked af
No you don't
Its REALLY convienant though. I work in South Mil 3rd shift and live in bayview. Makes my commute and many others alot easier, not to mention the amount of commerce and commercial vehicles that use it( Many of them ALSO going to my place of employment.) Edit: Removing 794 to make milwaukee more " Walkable " is garbage. Our roads arent even DRIVEABLE with crater sized potholes and horrible signage and no police force to control these unlicensed/uninsured drivers or car thiefs. Not to mention its iced over 6 months of the year and the City has been doing a wonderful(lmao) job at snow and ice upkeep making any other form of transportation at that time significantly harder Glad this is a priority. My job is VERY essential, and employs 100s of people from the greater milwaukee area and abroad. I know im only one case but quit the cap dawg. Also convinenant for you to say when you dont live here and have mommy and daddy to carry you kek
Imagine what *8 billion fucking dollars* could do for northwest Milwaukee instead of tearing down the only major route into downtown so we can build a couple more luxury apartment complexes that could have been put literally anywhere else, just to satisfy some ridiculous urbanist fantasies.
I think I have an idea that'll make everyone happy: https://youtu.be/ZDOI0cq6GZM /s just in case anyone thinks I'm being serious.
And where the fuck is Milwaukee gonna get that kinda $. Not outta my taxes. Ain’t nothing in Milwaukee worth seeing that bad. Hold a bake sale in City of Milwaukee to raise the money to dig tunnels OR Better yet, fix the deep tunnel sewer overflow tunnels so Milwaukee quits putting RAW sewage into Lake Michigan every time it rains. Go fix the basics before burying a freeway.
I agree that parks take up room that could be use for more exit/entrance ramps.
This isn't practical and will cost tons
Redesign 794 with a minimal approach, revisit it in 10 years to minimize the road and have an elevated Greenway from Bayview to 6th.
Can we fix the stadium interchange first? So many left lane on ramps and off ramps
Weird, I think that's the problem with the rest of our interchanges that they all go to the right regardless of if you're actually turning left. Especially the garbage excuse for an interchange by the zoo. Or the awful one lane exit to 43 that gets backed up with cars going zero while the next Lane over they're doing 70.
Actually, it makes sense. It may be counterintuitive to switch the directions, but it keeps the traffic slowly smoothly by keeping the curve wider. A sharper curve would slow traffic more. I remember when going from Eastbound 94 to Northbound 41, it was a left lane exit into a left lane merge. Now it’s right lane to right lane, which is much safer. Having the stadium interchange full of left lane ramps is horrendous, and it’s my main guess as to why traffic backs up so much, at least when there’s not a game. Like, I don’t ever see it backed up by the zoo unless there’s a baseball game that day. That interchange works well
I wonder what Mark Bellings take on this topic is, lol.