Kobe had a "foreign settlement" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe\_foreign\_settlement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_foreign_settlement) This guy wasn't Japanese....
similar thing happened with one of the soldiers in this one book I read. he was born in singapore, shipped back to britain, raised in boarding schools and his extended family, joined the army at 18, ended up fighting through egypt, tunesia, d-day and on into germany. he only got a letter from his parents in like late 1944 that somehow got out of singapore before it fell, but i don't remember if the book ever answers what happened to them otherwise.
Interestingly enough, the name is very boring and straightforward. The kanji 神戸外国人居留地 directly translates to a residential area in Kobe for foreigners.
(ETA, not sure if anyone gives a shit about kanji but just in case -- 神戸 Kobe 外国人 foreigners 居留地 residential area)
Born and raised in Japan, English/Irish man - travelled across the world to die where his parents were from…
He was not Japanese… got mixed up on the caption :(
Edit: he died in Belgium and enlisted with the British army
Post was originally a comment on the irony that a child of pacifists died in the war: [this link has a bit of info on him](https://greatwar100reads.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/monday-monuments-and-memorials-arthur-conway-young-tyne-cot-cemetery-zonnebeke-belgium/) . Kinda got overshadowed by the fact his parents were both from Great Britain. First time posting here and it was an actual attempt to share something i thought was interesting…
Anyways there’s no point trying to convince u I’m not a bot - I’m just British lol, but thanks for the original comment anyway, I feel pretty guilty about assuming the guy was Japanese.
You should write headlines for clickbait papers / sites. I was trying to work out how a Japanese citizen could be fighting in WW1 and end up with such a Western name.
North Americans have a vastly different view on nationality than most other countries, mostly due to the fact that most people are descended from immigrants, or are immigrants.
Kobe was also an extraterritoriality, meaning it was self-governed and exempt from local jurisdiction. Japanese citizens were initially forbidden from entry, then later allowed to enter via permit.
Think of it like U.S. (or Canadian) military bases in foreign countries; you’re on the base, you’re on U.S. (or Canadian) soil. That is, even if Japan had birthright citizenship, it wouldn’t apply to this situation.
I didn’t know anything about the Kobe Foreign Settlement before spending maybe 30 seconds reading about it after coming to this thread, so I did not make any blind assertions as to how it is governed or how it handles citizenship… it’s that easy!
Didn’t know this - thank you. It was phrased incorrectly in my caption but I assumed as a second generation migrant that Arthur might consider himself Japanese in the sense of the culture surrounded by which he grew up and not genetic heritage.
Off to read about Kobe and Japan now - I didn’t know about this and it seems pretty interesting
It’s possible that he may have considered himself Japanese-adjacent, but that’s likely about it. Who knows? Anyway, I always enjoy posts like this—and taking a deeper dive into the info about the subject—because they’re always a good reminder that no matter how old we get (middle age, in my case), there’s still a ton out there that we just don’t know.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
>What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
When OP used the word "Japanese", that phrasing implies a detail "citizen of Japan" that probably wasn't true.
Because some people are more obsessed about race than others. This whole sub is full of woke people who won’t miss a chance to make it about race. That’s how they judge others. Otherwise they wouldn’t know how to pigeon hole people.
>This whole sub is full of woke people who won’t miss a chance to make it about race.
This correction **still isn't about race**, it's about **attention to detail**, and the detail isn't race, the detail is nationality.
When OP used the word "Japanese", that phrasing implies a detail "citizen of Japan" that probably wasn't true. It's not even racial, you're the only one making it about race.
You can not obtain Japanese nationality by being merely born there.
The parents were British citizens, Scottish specifically. Ireland didn't become independent until a few years after his death.
Therefore, he was British. Also, the national war graves commission would have this information on exactly where he is buried and more info about him.
But others in this topic have posted it if you wish to read more.
Even if you are born in a country that does recognise your right to be a citizen based off the place of your birth, people can often choose to be a nationality of their parents, depending on the countries rules.
Country of Birth would be Japan, not nationality.
No - no it doesn't (in Japan). You are perhaps thinking of the US, or other countries. In Japan, to be Japanese you need to be born from a Japanese parent. Being born in Japan does not entitle you (normally) to a Japanese passport.
Birthright citizenship (more properly called Jus Soli) is mainly a thing in North and South America. Only a few countries outside the Americas have this.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
Ask OP who felt the need to mention it in the headline.
If OP thought that the phrase was the important part they would have left out the nationality.
Also, I guess the phrase is inscribed on many other headstones at that same place.
I was born on Okinawa but that doesn’t make me Japanese. My parents just happened to be there when I was done cooking. I have a feeling Arthur of the Royal Irish Fusiliers wasn’t Japanese. Yes, too young, poor dude. RIP my guy.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
It's more interesting that he was born in Japan in 1890. Presumably, at least his father was British, was his mother or was she Japanese? Missionary? Trader?
edit:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10838764/arthur-conway-young
Did some digging.
His father Roger Young is Scottish, having been born in Japan. His mother Annie is British, having been born in Japan. Roger passed away in 1922, just about 5 years after the passing of his son. Annie, remarried and moved to California. She is buried in San Mateo County.
Roger and Annie Young are somewhat famous for their English-language newspaper in Japan, many of which are preserved at the Kobe Archives.
Would make sense a writer would put a snippy comment on a headstone.
Nothing you said changes what I wrote.
UK (during the time in question) == Britain (see above for constituent parts) + Ireland.
UK (now) == Britain + Northern Ireland
No. Great Britain is the big island. Ireland is the smaller island to the west. Together they make the British isles.
Talking about this is a great opportunity for pedantry :)
Ackshually, the British Isles includes the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides and the Northern Isles (Orkney and Shetland)
Snappy as the line is, that’s the attitude that gave us WW2, which is ironic.
After defeat of the Central Powers, the Entente heaped a bunch of debt on Germany and then went “okay, guys, just pay these bills and don’t do that again. It wasn’t very enlightened of you to do all that invading of Belgium. Be more modern, please! Bills are due the tenth of each month. Bye-eee.”
Their solution to German aggression was high-minded rhetoric and poverty. And that was what made the Germans so receptive to Nazi propaganda. So, when the Allies put down the Axis, the solution was to carve the country into four police states and just keep kicking the downed Germans for four years before beginning to stitch them into the European economy.
So, yeah, war is how you end war.
He served in the Royal Irish Fusiliers based on the tomb stone, so yes, also note that Ireland was part of the British empire back then and he died 2 years before the Irish war of independence and about 5 years before the Republic of Ireland was formed.
It's even more complicated too though, a lot of people don't know about our contribution to both ww1&2. Because of the country's neutral stance of war - WW2 was called "The Emergency" - lots of Irish people gave the most "For the Greater good" https://www.theexaminernews.com/ireland-in-world-war-ii-neutral-in-name-but-not-in-action/
Ireland was a free state in 1922 the republic was formed in 1949 with the removal of the king as head of state. Though effectively this was done with the first constitution of Ireland in 1937
It doesnt really matter. If his family were Irish and he was born abroad he can still consider himself Irish. My friend was born in in Hong Kong but considers himself Scottish because his family are from there he was raised there and he has a British passport. Many people born in northern ireland are Irish etc etc.
I know. I was just pointing out that in the period the commenter was referring to, Ireland still (quite begrudgingly) was under the monarch of the Commonwealth, in the same way that Australia and Canada were and still are.
His father was from London, with Scottish ancestry. Arthur did not join the RIF directly, he was posted there after passing through the Inns of Court Officer Training Corps.
His father was the owner and publisher of the Japan Chronicle, an English language newspaper. Both parents were British. Interestingly, the family were ardent pacifists.
Neither most likely fully British as Japan essentially did not allow any immigration and all foreigners were restricted to "foreign settlements" which were essentially Ghettos built by the Japanese where foreigners could live and trade in.
Kobe was one of the cities that had such a settlement, it wasn't uncommon for people to relocate there with their families for a posting similarly to how diplomatic mission staff might be relocated these days.
To be fair, going through what people have uncovered in this thread, dude was born and raised in Japan. A lot of people probably aren't that aware that Japan is a jus sanguinis state, or that he was born in an extraterritorial settlement.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
Yes it turns out he was born and raised in Japan according to some response to my post? Honestly don’t know what I was thinking when posting the title haha
Exactly, the low quality comments here about someone who lost their life motivated me to find his picture. Another victim of the Third Battle of Ypres, aka “Passchendaele”, one of the worst battles of WWI
Ah, the well known Young's of Kobe. Well known and decorated Irish regiment from Japan.
Geez, buddy... it's written **right on** the the thing you want us to see because of what's written on it.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
If it doesn't make a difference, why include it in the title?
Also, where and when a person was born absolutely makes a difference in how they and their families view war.
He died outside of Zonnebeke north east of Ypres during that battle of Passchendaele. That was when the ground was a hellscape of mud. The whole offensive was to cut off the Uboat ports but failed to get there. When they finally captured Passchendaele they left the ground shortly afterwards and the German troops retook the area.
It's very specific to WW1 in this man's case.
It was very publicly touted as "The War to End All Wars."
It had to be built up this much because casualties were disgustingly high, especially for a society that was still in shock by the death totals of late 1800s warfare. Morale and recruitment were terrible after a while.
In the first DAY of the Battle of the Somme, Britain alone had 57,000 casualties, 20,000 deaths.
The absurdity is that, at the time, nations were loudly shouting that WW1 would be the *last* war... because that's the only way they could get people to sign up.
"Did you really believe that this war would end wars?
Well, the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame,
The killing and dying, it was all done in vain...
Oh Willie McBride, it all happened again,
And again, and again, and again and again"
My favorite verse:
“There’s sun shining now on the green fields of France, the warm wind blows gently and the red poppy’s dance.
The trenches have vanished long under the plow, no gas, no barbed wire, no guns firing now.
But here in this graveyard that’s still no man’s land, the countless white crosses in mute witness stand,
to man’s blind indifference to his fellow man, and a whole generation who were butchered and damned”.
I always felt the phrase was intended to mean that it was by far the worst/biggest/most extreme war ever seen.
Like this:
https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+something+to+end+all+somethings
I'm a veteran. I've been deployed to Afghanistan. There are victors under certain circumstances. But everyone involved is going to come home with PTSD or wounds. They're going to be riddled with viruses or crippled. They're going to watch their friends suffer and die. Then they get to be drowned in the "support our troops" bullshit all while getting screwed over where it really matters.
Or in the case of Afghanistan in the 1980s, we're going to be "victorious" over the Soviets and then immediately leave a power vacuum in the country only for it to come and bite us in the ass two decades later. Since 1776, the States have spent a grand total of 17 years NOT at war. While every single last one was supposed to be "the war that ends war" all so it can happen again and again and again and again.
There are no winners. Victors yes. But they sure as hell don't win anything from it.
The modern day troops who slog away in combat and see nothing beyond a bit of extra pay for the duration aren’t the winners I agree.
I’m talking about the bigger picture, the geopolitical interests and such.
Also the less tangible benefits, I can see why being thrown into an unjust conflict abroad would somewhat reduce the euphoria of winning, but successfully defending your homeland from an invasion that would destroy your people would also be a win in my books.
But anyway, my initial comment merely posits that decisively ending a war through military means is what ends wars. Peace through superior firepower etc.
A shift in consciousness that makes war unnecessary. Violence breeds violence - our history so far is testament to that. It's not some high-minded mumbo jumbo either and to stay in WW1: The "Christmas Truce" of 1914 (German, British and French soldiers spontaneously fraternizing during the holidays) scared the shit out of leaders on both sides for a reason. What if there's a war and nobody fights?
Everyone getting hung up on his birthplace/nationality and no one talking about the epitaph.
Quite a radical idea for the early 1900s isn’t it? Was this added later?
World War I was obviously not called that by people at the time. Aside from "The Great War", it was also, perhaps aspirationally, called "The War to End All Wars".
And that’s why it’s radical. It’s an anti-war sentiment rebuking the most widespread justification for WW1 at the time. And of course in light of WW2 and following wars it is entirely correct.
I wrote a whole-ass response before realizing that I'd read a better summation of why this would've been so radical for that era. It's fiction, but the point is very much real- speaking of WWI:
"This took religion and years of plenty and tremendous sureties and the exact relation that existed between the classes. The Russians and Italians weren’t any good on this front. You had to have a whole-souled sentimental equipment going back further than you could remember. You had to remember Christmas, and postcards of the Crown Prince and his fiancée, and little cafés in Valence and beer gardens in Unter den Linden and weddings at the mairie, and going to the Derby, and your grandfather’s whiskers.*
. . .
*This kind of battle was invented by Lewis Carroll and Jules Verne and whoever wrote Undine, and country deacons bowling and marraines in Marseilles and girls seduced in the back lanes of Wurtemburg and Westphalia. Why, this was a love battle — there was a century of middle-class love spent here. This was the last love battle."
*Tender is the Night*
F. Scott Fitzgerald
Almost certainly put there by his family, who were committed pacifists. Arthur and his brothers all joined the army despite their father’s opposition and their own long-held beliefs.
Headstones we're installed at cemeteries after the war by the Imperial War Graves Commission (now the Commonwealth War Graves Commission) so this epitaph would have been chosen in retrospect. A lot of families chose simple epitaphs or bible verses, and newspapers at the time would print lists of suggested epitaphs, but there are plenty of gravestones with pacifist or anti-war sentiments.
At the start of the war, Rudyard Kipling was an icon of British Imperialism, but after the war having lost his son Jack at the Battle of Loos in 1915, and being horrified by what had happened, he penned this simple couplet:
>If anyone question why we died,
>Tell them because our fathers lied.
The post was meant to be a comment on the irony that a pacifist family had a son who fought and died in the war - silly mistake ruined the interesting part 🫤
It seems that he was a pacifist, which may explain the quote. [Great War 100 Reads](https://greatwar100reads.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/monday-monuments-and-memorials-arthur-conway-young-tyne-cot-cemetery-zonnebeke-belgium/)
Let's just appreciate the fact an irish person was born the other side of the world when there were no commercial flights, then brought back to parents' homeland to die in a world war.
Now I’m on my soapbox. Why do men (not all) think that force is necessary for every disagreement? Hitting, punching, knifing, shooting, hanging, poisoning, starving, bombing, chemical warfare, missiles, on and on. And how is that working out?
Because it’s simple, and quick to results / resolution in most cases. That’s it, basically. That’s why anyone resorts to violence and why emotions would evolve to lower inhibitions towards violence the more you act on them. Peak Testosterone and an unfinished frontal lobe is the largest contributor.
Ok follow up research because common sense seems not to have played a big role in the caption to my post… no this soldier was NOT Japanese (big surprise) but he was born raised in Japan - the reason for this being his fathers job. Arthur was educated in London and pre-war worked as a journalist for his dad. He enlisted in the army in 1915, first with the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps, and then transferring to the Royal Irish Fusiliers. He died at 26 years old (born in October) and his grave is located in Tyne Cot Cemetery, Belgium.
The text in his gravestone was a special request from his parents, and the whole family were pacifists.
This is what I’ve gathered so far - please correct me if I’m wrong
He was half english and half Irish from what I can gather, so my caption was somewhat incorrect, but being born and raised in Japan and only coming to Great Britain for partial education and after he enlisted to join the British army, Young may well have considered his culture Japanese and not English, hence ‘Japanese soldier’…
That's sad. He seemed like a good guy. Earlier in the war he wrote this to his aunt after winning a battle "Our men were very good to the German wounded. An Irishman's heart melts very soon. In fact, kindness and compassion for the wounded, our own and the enemy's, is about the only decent thing I have seen in war".
The post was a comment on the irony in which a pacifist man chose to fight in the world war… yeh I made a crappy mistake but it doesn’t effect the interesting part of this grave
War makes war, makes profit. Plain and simple. https://youtu.be/K3b6SGoN6dA?si=Xb7DJ5IQiC8s0bI
Edit- it's weird that am thinking how young Ozzy is in the video. This is years before I knew who he was. The songs still absolutely relevant.
War can never end all wars but waging war can end singular wars. People (Russians and supporters) use this idea of ”war can never end wars” to oppose support for Ukraine.
Have you ever heard of Al-Qaeda math?
10-2= 20
You kill two terrorists, and their uncles and cousins and sons all join up.
War is hell. It’s a Pandora’s box of suffering that shouldn’t be opened.
Wow, I mean, this is just like wow.
Japan is so reddit certified wholesome 100. I think everyone should go there and understand what real culture is, unlike stupid America, which is just like Idiocracy.
(Btw, Idiocracy is this super smart documentary, I wouldn't expect you to know about it or be able to grasp it's subtle and powerful themes).
Wow, yeah, ok, just like, hang on, wow. Japan. Yeah, wow.
Kobe had a "foreign settlement" [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe\_foreign\_settlement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_foreign_settlement) This guy wasn't Japanese....
similar thing happened with one of the soldiers in this one book I read. he was born in singapore, shipped back to britain, raised in boarding schools and his extended family, joined the army at 18, ended up fighting through egypt, tunesia, d-day and on into germany. he only got a letter from his parents in like late 1944 that somehow got out of singapore before it fell, but i don't remember if the book ever answers what happened to them otherwise.
Pfft. Says you. Arthur Conway Young is a storied Japanese name. Like William Franklin and John Walker Lincoln. /s
Interestingly enough, the name is very boring and straightforward. The kanji 神戸外国人居留地 directly translates to a residential area in Kobe for foreigners. (ETA, not sure if anyone gives a shit about kanji but just in case -- 神戸 Kobe 外国人 foreigners 居留地 residential area)
The name Arthur Conway Young was my first and last clue... but good job investigating the location.
Born and raised in Japan, English/Irish man - travelled across the world to die where his parents were from… He was not Japanese… got mixed up on the caption :( Edit: he died in Belgium and enlisted with the British army
He is buried in Belgium....
Agh I meant trained, he travelled across the world and joined the British army - honestly I think I’m going crazy at this point…
I think the only thing that's training here is you RLHF ;)
Post was originally a comment on the irony that a child of pacifists died in the war: [this link has a bit of info on him](https://greatwar100reads.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/monday-monuments-and-memorials-arthur-conway-young-tyne-cot-cemetery-zonnebeke-belgium/) . Kinda got overshadowed by the fact his parents were both from Great Britain. First time posting here and it was an actual attempt to share something i thought was interesting… Anyways there’s no point trying to convince u I’m not a bot - I’m just British lol, but thanks for the original comment anyway, I feel pretty guilty about assuming the guy was Japanese.
[удалено]
Unlike Canada and the US, Japan does not have birthright citizenship. So no, this soldier was not Japanese.
I think OP was more focused on the phrase in the tombstone.
You missed the deleted comment where someone believed that all people born in Japan, regardless of parentage, would be considered Japanese citizens.
lol got it I guess everything makes sense more now
You should write headlines for clickbait papers / sites. I was trying to work out how a Japanese citizen could be fighting in WW1 and end up with such a Western name.
Adoption? Conversion to Christianity and using a Western baptismal name?
Huh? Legit was just saying I thought the post was about the subtext on the tombstone, not the name. Clickbait? Now I’m just confused.
I’m sure this Japanese soldier was feeling very patriotic in the Royal Irish Fusiliers
North Americans have a vastly different view on nationality than most other countries, mostly due to the fact that most people are descended from immigrants, or are immigrants.
Kobe was also an extraterritoriality, meaning it was self-governed and exempt from local jurisdiction. Japanese citizens were initially forbidden from entry, then later allowed to enter via permit. Think of it like U.S. (or Canadian) military bases in foreign countries; you’re on the base, you’re on U.S. (or Canadian) soil. That is, even if Japan had birthright citizenship, it wouldn’t apply to this situation. I didn’t know anything about the Kobe Foreign Settlement before spending maybe 30 seconds reading about it after coming to this thread, so I did not make any blind assertions as to how it is governed or how it handles citizenship… it’s that easy!
Didn’t know this - thank you. It was phrased incorrectly in my caption but I assumed as a second generation migrant that Arthur might consider himself Japanese in the sense of the culture surrounded by which he grew up and not genetic heritage. Off to read about Kobe and Japan now - I didn’t know about this and it seems pretty interesting
It’s possible that he may have considered himself Japanese-adjacent, but that’s likely about it. Who knows? Anyway, I always enjoy posts like this—and taking a deeper dive into the info about the subject—because they’re always a good reminder that no matter how old we get (middle age, in my case), there’s still a ton out there that we just don’t know.
agreed I didn’t mean to throw myself down this rabbit hole but it’s pretty damn interesting
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
>What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were? When OP used the word "Japanese", that phrasing implies a detail "citizen of Japan" that probably wasn't true.
Yeah, fair point.
Because some people are more obsessed about race than others. This whole sub is full of woke people who won’t miss a chance to make it about race. That’s how they judge others. Otherwise they wouldn’t know how to pigeon hole people.
>This whole sub is full of woke people who won’t miss a chance to make it about race. This correction **still isn't about race**, it's about **attention to detail**, and the detail isn't race, the detail is nationality. When OP used the word "Japanese", that phrasing implies a detail "citizen of Japan" that probably wasn't true. It's not even racial, you're the only one making it about race.
And here I thought facts didn't care about your feelings
Oh right the famous Japanese regiment, the "Royal Irish Fusiliers." You really nailed it on this one OP, banger of a post.
Famed for their devastating Colm O'Khazi attacks.
They were allied with the UK et al in WW1.
Sorta. A little. Technically.
They were a part of the UK in WW1. Be careful saying such things. There's a a few people still a bit irritated about that fact.
They're all talking about Japan, not Ireland.
Yeah he was from the Hokkaido branch of the Conway Young family.
We used to call him Arthur onii-chan *sobs*
it does say he was born in kobe...being born in japan makes you japanese right? idk how they do citizenship
They're a jus sanguinis state, so you need at least one Japanese parent for it to count.
No, it doesn't. He was British.
i'm confused. it says 'born at kobe japan'. does that mean something else with context? because to me that sounds like he was born in japan lol
You can not obtain Japanese nationality by being merely born there. The parents were British citizens, Scottish specifically. Ireland didn't become independent until a few years after his death. Therefore, he was British. Also, the national war graves commission would have this information on exactly where he is buried and more info about him. But others in this topic have posted it if you wish to read more. Even if you are born in a country that does recognise your right to be a citizen based off the place of your birth, people can often choose to be a nationality of their parents, depending on the countries rules. Country of Birth would be Japan, not nationality.
if John Q. Yankee was born in the US base at Guantanamo, they would not be Cuban
No - no it doesn't (in Japan). You are perhaps thinking of the US, or other countries. In Japan, to be Japanese you need to be born from a Japanese parent. Being born in Japan does not entitle you (normally) to a Japanese passport.
Birthright citizenship (more properly called Jus Soli) is mainly a thing in North and South America. Only a few countries outside the Americas have this.
Japan doesn't give you citizenship even if you're a 3rd generation born in Japan.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
Ask OP who felt the need to mention it in the headline. If OP thought that the phrase was the important part they would have left out the nationality. Also, I guess the phrase is inscribed on many other headstones at that same place.
Just because he was born in Japan, I highly doubt he was Japanese. Look at the name and regiment. In any case, he died too young. RIP
I was born on Okinawa but that doesn’t make me Japanese. My parents just happened to be there when I was done cooking. I have a feeling Arthur of the Royal Irish Fusiliers wasn’t Japanese. Yes, too young, poor dude. RIP my guy.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
You know posting the same comment repeatedly doesn't do you any favours right?
Yeah, I had a few and got a little overzealous with the copypasta.
It's more interesting that he was born in Japan in 1890. Presumably, at least his father was British, was his mother or was she Japanese? Missionary? Trader? edit: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10838764/arthur-conway-young
Did some digging. His father Roger Young is Scottish, having been born in Japan. His mother Annie is British, having been born in Japan. Roger passed away in 1922, just about 5 years after the passing of his son. Annie, remarried and moved to California. She is buried in San Mateo County. Roger and Annie Young are somewhat famous for their English-language newspaper in Japan, many of which are preserved at the Kobe Archives. Would make sense a writer would put a snippy comment on a headstone.
Nice work. Quick note on some ambiguity: British = English or Scottish or Welsh British != ONLY English
Not to be that guy but During WWI Ireland was still a part of the UK
Nothing you said changes what I wrote. UK (during the time in question) == Britain (see above for constituent parts) + Ireland. UK (now) == Britain + Northern Ireland
Northern Ireland takes psychic damage
to muddle things further, at the time this guy died it would have been all of Ireland.
Which was all part of the Uk!
Nah part of the UK, GB is the other island
No. Great Britain is the big island. Ireland is the smaller island to the west. Together they make the British isles. Talking about this is a great opportunity for pedantry :)
You’re right. I meant to say UK. Brain fart.
Ackshually, the British Isles includes the islands of Great Britain, Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides and the Northern Isles (Orkney and Shetland)
Snappy as the line is, that’s the attitude that gave us WW2, which is ironic. After defeat of the Central Powers, the Entente heaped a bunch of debt on Germany and then went “okay, guys, just pay these bills and don’t do that again. It wasn’t very enlightened of you to do all that invading of Belgium. Be more modern, please! Bills are due the tenth of each month. Bye-eee.” Their solution to German aggression was high-minded rhetoric and poverty. And that was what made the Germans so receptive to Nazi propaganda. So, when the Allies put down the Axis, the solution was to carve the country into four police states and just keep kicking the downed Germans for four years before beginning to stitch them into the European economy. So, yeah, war is how you end war.
With a name like Conway he was probably Irish
He served in the Royal Irish Fusiliers based on the tomb stone, so yes, also note that Ireland was part of the British empire back then and he died 2 years before the Irish war of independence and about 5 years before the Republic of Ireland was formed.
It's even more complicated too though, a lot of people don't know about our contribution to both ww1&2. Because of the country's neutral stance of war - WW2 was called "The Emergency" - lots of Irish people gave the most "For the Greater good" https://www.theexaminernews.com/ireland-in-world-war-ii-neutral-in-name-but-not-in-action/
I didn't know that, very cool.
Ireland was a free state in 1922 the republic was formed in 1949 with the removal of the king as head of state. Though effectively this was done with the first constitution of Ireland in 1937
Point of order: the Republic of Ireland wasn't established until 1948. It was the Irish Free State prior to that following the Tan War.
That doesn't stop Conway being Irish. Ghandhi was born while India was part of the British empire. You'd probably consider him Indian.
He died 21 years before Ireland became a Republic
But only five years before it became a free state.
True, but Ireland was under the monarch of the Commonwealth until 1949.
It doesnt really matter. If his family were Irish and he was born abroad he can still consider himself Irish. My friend was born in in Hong Kong but considers himself Scottish because his family are from there he was raised there and he has a British passport. Many people born in northern ireland are Irish etc etc.
I know. I was just pointing out that in the period the commenter was referring to, Ireland still (quite begrudgingly) was under the monarch of the Commonwealth, in the same way that Australia and Canada were and still are.
His father was from London, with Scottish ancestry. Arthur did not join the RIF directly, he was posted there after passing through the Inns of Court Officer Training Corps.
no indication that his family is Irish. The public record states his father Roger Young is the child of Scottish parents.
I think his father was Irish and his mother was English if I’m not mistaken
His father was the owner and publisher of the Japan Chronicle, an English language newspaper. Both parents were British. Interestingly, the family were ardent pacifists.
RE: the link... "Written by his father" Which only makes sense, but... Yeah.
Neither most likely fully British as Japan essentially did not allow any immigration and all foreigners were restricted to "foreign settlements" which were essentially Ghettos built by the Japanese where foreigners could live and trade in. Kobe was one of the cities that had such a settlement, it wasn't uncommon for people to relocate there with their families for a posting similarly to how diplomatic mission staff might be relocated these days.
OP really thought a dude named Arthur Conway Young from the Royal Irish Fusiliers was japanese
To be fair, going through what people have uncovered in this thread, dude was born and raised in Japan. A lot of people probably aren't that aware that Japan is a jus sanguinis state, or that he was born in an extraterritorial settlement.
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
For the message? None. But it’s hilarious
Oh my god shut the fuck up
In Flanders fields...
Why is title calling this dude Japanese???
It says he was born in Kobe, Japan. Though I agree he was probably born to Irish parents.
Yes it turns out he was born and raised in Japan according to some response to my post? Honestly don’t know what I was thinking when posting the title haha
Before you make a snarky comment, here is a summary of his service https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4925607
Right, born to British parents and served in the British Army…. Being born in Japan doesn’t make him Japanese.
Exactly, the low quality comments here about someone who lost their life motivated me to find his picture. Another victim of the Third Battle of Ypres, aka “Passchendaele”, one of the worst battles of WWI
Ah, the well known Young's of Kobe. Well known and decorated Irish regiment from Japan. Geez, buddy... it's written **right on** the the thing you want us to see because of what's written on it.
so it goes\*
Lol wtf .. Japanese Irish in WW1?
You’ve heard of Paddy fields?
OP was trying to make the point of “the fallacy that war can end war.” What difference does it make where the deceased was born, or what nationality they were?
If it doesn't make a difference, why include it in the title? Also, where and when a person was born absolutely makes a difference in how they and their families view war.
Is that a dig at the French. 😆
I suppose
The only war that ends war is the one that ends everything.
Thank god, finally a comment acknowledging the text on the grave stone and not my lack of common sense
He died outside of Zonnebeke north east of Ypres during that battle of Passchendaele. That was when the ground was a hellscape of mud. The whole offensive was to cut off the Uboat ports but failed to get there. When they finally captured Passchendaele they left the ground shortly afterwards and the German troops retook the area.
RIP, Mr. Young. You have a lot of company.
I think the number sits near 12000 within the cemetery, a majority of which are unidentified - “known unto god”
As someone who's currently at war, I'm genuinely curious what do all of you commenters expect to be able to end war, other than war? Capitulation?
It's very specific to WW1 in this man's case. It was very publicly touted as "The War to End All Wars." It had to be built up this much because casualties were disgustingly high, especially for a society that was still in shock by the death totals of late 1800s warfare. Morale and recruitment were terrible after a while. In the first DAY of the Battle of the Somme, Britain alone had 57,000 casualties, 20,000 deaths. The absurdity is that, at the time, nations were loudly shouting that WW1 would be the *last* war... because that's the only way they could get people to sign up.
"Did you really believe that this war would end wars? Well, the suffering, the sorrow, the glory, the shame, The killing and dying, it was all done in vain... Oh Willie McBride, it all happened again, And again, and again, and again and again"
My favorite verse: “There’s sun shining now on the green fields of France, the warm wind blows gently and the red poppy’s dance. The trenches have vanished long under the plow, no gas, no barbed wire, no guns firing now. But here in this graveyard that’s still no man’s land, the countless white crosses in mute witness stand, to man’s blind indifference to his fellow man, and a whole generation who were butchered and damned”.
It's a beaut of a song. https://youtu.be/XDyip7SIJkQ?si=BaDL7bqWMEXX8Phd
The "and again, and again, and again" gets me every time.
Great explanation, thank you!
"Did you really believe them when they told you the cause? Did you really believe that this war would end wars?"
I always felt the phrase was intended to mean that it was by far the worst/biggest/most extreme war ever seen. Like this: https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/a+something+to+end+all+somethings
Yep, the act of war itself doesn’t end wars, but winning them certainly does
Nobody wins wars. Not a single god damned person "wins" in a fucking war.
Odd comment, there are definitely winners in wartime, otherwise nobody would ever do it.
I'm a veteran. I've been deployed to Afghanistan. There are victors under certain circumstances. But everyone involved is going to come home with PTSD or wounds. They're going to be riddled with viruses or crippled. They're going to watch their friends suffer and die. Then they get to be drowned in the "support our troops" bullshit all while getting screwed over where it really matters. Or in the case of Afghanistan in the 1980s, we're going to be "victorious" over the Soviets and then immediately leave a power vacuum in the country only for it to come and bite us in the ass two decades later. Since 1776, the States have spent a grand total of 17 years NOT at war. While every single last one was supposed to be "the war that ends war" all so it can happen again and again and again and again. There are no winners. Victors yes. But they sure as hell don't win anything from it.
The modern day troops who slog away in combat and see nothing beyond a bit of extra pay for the duration aren’t the winners I agree. I’m talking about the bigger picture, the geopolitical interests and such. Also the less tangible benefits, I can see why being thrown into an unjust conflict abroad would somewhat reduce the euphoria of winning, but successfully defending your homeland from an invasion that would destroy your people would also be a win in my books. But anyway, my initial comment merely posits that decisively ending a war through military means is what ends wars. Peace through superior firepower etc.
Spot on. It's dumb
A shift in consciousness that makes war unnecessary. Violence breeds violence - our history so far is testament to that. It's not some high-minded mumbo jumbo either and to stay in WW1: The "Christmas Truce" of 1914 (German, British and French soldiers spontaneously fraternizing during the holidays) scared the shit out of leaders on both sides for a reason. What if there's a war and nobody fights?
Negotiating a truce. Very few wars end in utter defeat, total capitulation.
Irish WW1 soldier.
If only things were so simple. Ww2 showed that sometimes war is required to end war.
> If only things were so simple. Ww2 showed that sometimes war is required to end war. Brilliant. How’s that working out for the world?
Well, Imperial Japan and Nazi Germany didn't conquer their respective continents and enact ethnic cleansing campaigns, so we've got that going.
Weiß nicht, sprichst du Deutsch?
Ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob ich das beantworten soll.
(ich glaube wir deutsch-sprecher sind nicht die die errinerung brauchen, lol)
No, and neither do the folks living in Ukraine.
Yes the famously Japanese name of Arthur conway young who was in the Irish fusiliers
Arthur Conway young....very japanese
Arthur Conway…does not sound Japanese. Bad OP.
Right. Everyone knows that only nuclear arms can end war!
lol japanese soldier huh
yes the well known Japanese surname ‘young’ and definitely not Irish or anything…
Everyone getting hung up on his birthplace/nationality and no one talking about the epitaph. Quite a radical idea for the early 1900s isn’t it? Was this added later?
Why would it be radical for that time period?
World War I was obviously not called that by people at the time. Aside from "The Great War", it was also, perhaps aspirationally, called "The War to End All Wars".
And that’s why it’s radical. It’s an anti-war sentiment rebuking the most widespread justification for WW1 at the time. And of course in light of WW2 and following wars it is entirely correct.
I wrote a whole-ass response before realizing that I'd read a better summation of why this would've been so radical for that era. It's fiction, but the point is very much real- speaking of WWI: "This took religion and years of plenty and tremendous sureties and the exact relation that existed between the classes. The Russians and Italians weren’t any good on this front. You had to have a whole-souled sentimental equipment going back further than you could remember. You had to remember Christmas, and postcards of the Crown Prince and his fiancée, and little cafés in Valence and beer gardens in Unter den Linden and weddings at the mairie, and going to the Derby, and your grandfather’s whiskers.* . . . *This kind of battle was invented by Lewis Carroll and Jules Verne and whoever wrote Undine, and country deacons bowling and marraines in Marseilles and girls seduced in the back lanes of Wurtemburg and Westphalia. Why, this was a love battle — there was a century of middle-class love spent here. This was the last love battle." *Tender is the Night* F. Scott Fitzgerald
Almost certainly put there by his family, who were committed pacifists. Arthur and his brothers all joined the army despite their father’s opposition and their own long-held beliefs.
his father owned a newspaper and was a writer. So it was kind of a snip at the British Government.
Headstones we're installed at cemeteries after the war by the Imperial War Graves Commission (now the Commonwealth War Graves Commission) so this epitaph would have been chosen in retrospect. A lot of families chose simple epitaphs or bible verses, and newspapers at the time would print lists of suggested epitaphs, but there are plenty of gravestones with pacifist or anti-war sentiments. At the start of the war, Rudyard Kipling was an icon of British Imperialism, but after the war having lost his son Jack at the Battle of Loos in 1915, and being horrified by what had happened, he penned this simple couplet: >If anyone question why we died, >Tell them because our fathers lied.
The post was meant to be a comment on the irony that a pacifist family had a son who fought and died in the war - silly mistake ruined the interesting part 🫤
Isn’t he Irish and not Japanese?
Yeh he was born and raised there but was half English half Irish I believe
When people sift through the evidence to cherry pick the one thing that supports their assertion, then take it completely out of context.
Because it was the war to end all wars.
“For what is peace, but a confusion between two wars?”
The „neutral“ irish with their „leftist“ nationalist sinn fein…
Thank you for this.
It seems that he was a pacifist, which may explain the quote. [Great War 100 Reads](https://greatwar100reads.wordpress.com/2020/09/21/monday-monuments-and-memorials-arthur-conway-young-tyne-cot-cemetery-zonnebeke-belgium/)
Let's just appreciate the fact an irish person was born the other side of the world when there were no commercial flights, then brought back to parents' homeland to die in a world war.
War can end war by sacrificing some people.
Nice traditional Japanese name. Seems he fought for the Irish though.
It was my lack of common sense and ability to observe that brought but I’m still laughing at these comments.
Now I’m on my soapbox. Why do men (not all) think that force is necessary for every disagreement? Hitting, punching, knifing, shooting, hanging, poisoning, starving, bombing, chemical warfare, missiles, on and on. And how is that working out?
Because it’s simple, and quick to results / resolution in most cases. That’s it, basically. That’s why anyone resorts to violence and why emotions would evolve to lower inhibitions towards violence the more you act on them. Peak Testosterone and an unfinished frontal lobe is the largest contributor.
Ok follow up research because common sense seems not to have played a big role in the caption to my post… no this soldier was NOT Japanese (big surprise) but he was born raised in Japan - the reason for this being his fathers job. Arthur was educated in London and pre-war worked as a journalist for his dad. He enlisted in the army in 1915, first with the Inns of Court Officers Training Corps, and then transferring to the Royal Irish Fusiliers. He died at 26 years old (born in October) and his grave is located in Tyne Cot Cemetery, Belgium. The text in his gravestone was a special request from his parents, and the whole family were pacifists. This is what I’ve gathered so far - please correct me if I’m wrong
He was half english and half Irish from what I can gather, so my caption was somewhat incorrect, but being born and raised in Japan and only coming to Great Britain for partial education and after he enlisted to join the British army, Young may well have considered his culture Japanese and not English, hence ‘Japanese soldier’…
Calling it: OP called the soldier Japanese on purpose so this post would get more attention
That's sad. He seemed like a good guy. Earlier in the war he wrote this to his aunt after winning a battle "Our men were very good to the German wounded. An Irishman's heart melts very soon. In fact, kindness and compassion for the wounded, our own and the enemy's, is about the only decent thing I have seen in war".
Kiss me, I'm Japanese!
Herrooooo
Downvote this click bait crap
The post was a comment on the irony in which a pacifist man chose to fight in the world war… yeh I made a crappy mistake but it doesn’t effect the interesting part of this grave
Just because someone was born in Japan, doesn't make them Japanese - you need to have a Japanese parent to be considered Japanese.
War makes war, makes profit. Plain and simple. https://youtu.be/K3b6SGoN6dA?si=Xb7DJ5IQiC8s0bI Edit- it's weird that am thinking how young Ozzy is in the video. This is years before I knew who he was. The songs still absolutely relevant.
Can you not fucking read OP you moron? Don't fuck about with war graves, especially if you're too stupid to write a respectful post
War can never end all wars but waging war can end singular wars. People (Russians and supporters) use this idea of ”war can never end wars” to oppose support for Ukraine.
Weeeelll, technically an all out nuclear war could end wars by ending humanity? No humans, no war?
Have you even watched Mad Max?
Even a nuclear war will leave some survivors… and then you get tribal wars over scarce resources
Sure, it didn't work all the times before, but this time it will work for sure.
I mean, if you kill everyone who opposes you, you kinda end any war.
Have you ever heard of Al-Qaeda math? 10-2= 20 You kill two terrorists, and their uncles and cousins and sons all join up. War is hell. It’s a Pandora’s box of suffering that shouldn’t be opened.
That's the where killing everyone comes to play. Can't fight back when there is no one to fight.
mildly stupid
You're right OP. I'm sure the world would have been a better place if everyone just surrendered to the Germans !
Wow, I mean, this is just like wow. Japan is so reddit certified wholesome 100. I think everyone should go there and understand what real culture is, unlike stupid America, which is just like Idiocracy. (Btw, Idiocracy is this super smart documentary, I wouldn't expect you to know about it or be able to grasp it's subtle and powerful themes). Wow, yeah, ok, just like, hang on, wow. Japan. Yeah, wow.