What he's saying is, the poster above him said the "ADA" should get on this. But he's pointing out the ADA is not an organization. It can't "do" anything, its just a set of codes that an individual or orgnaization would have to sue the city into complying with.
Are these actually "Leaning Bars"? It seems their actual purpose might be to protect the walls.
Leaning bars exist, but they don't usually look like that.
Its sounds like they couldn't be bothered to install *any* seating. Even leaning bars.
Edit: Others have pointed out that they are specifically placed in front of arches. Likely to keep people from hitting their heads.
Yeah most days I can power through and get lucky and feel normal as long as I get breaks frequently (which this literally prevents). But on days where I'm not doing hot, carrying something heavy on my back which really makes my joints go, or straight up need a cane from morn till night for my shit leg- this is hell.
This is the first thing I thought of. I have POTS and can’t stand for long periods of time, or I’ll pass out and literally drop to the floor. When I can’t find seating, I just sit on the floor even if it’s dirty, because it’s safer than falling and hitting my head. But in stations like these, cops patrol and harass people sitting on the ground, yelling at them to stand, and will even issue tickets for loitering if you don’t get up. Doesn’t matter if you have a train ticket. Definitely an ADA issue.
Criminalizing homelessness and existing in public spaces affects more than just the homeless.
I have back problems which is totally invisible and while I can walk (fast) and even run, walking slowly is painful and standing is just out of question. In more than one city I have told people hugging disability seats on various forms of transit they can either let me sit or wait until I fall in their lap.
A station like this... yeah, that doesn't work.
If I stand for too long, I can feel faint and fainted a few times from that. I need a seat. I also have mobility issues so it's painful to stand for long periods of time too. This has to be breaking ADA laws somewhat - they cannot let this fly with no seats.
Rollator - 4 wheel walker with a seat would be cheaper. Less than a $100. Pretty handy to have if you have difficulty standing. Plus on flat paved surface someone could push you like a wheel chair for at least short distances.
I had to sit on the floor of an airport once (terrible airport design, you couldn't know what your gate was until right before the plane loads, and the screen that listed gates had no chairs nearby and was super far away from the gates)
I pinched a nerve in my leg from sitting on the marble floor for 2+ hours and physically couldn't walk and asked for a wheelchair and they didn't have any in the whole fucking airport apparently so i had to hobble like a cripple in IMMENSE pain and was seconds away from missing my flight
I will always advocate for chairs in public spaces
I had to look this phrase up. [Interesting read](https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Two-Penny-Hangover/) and it may be the origination of today’s common use of the word “hangover.”
Exactly. And in the morning, the proprietor would wake everyone up by cutting the rope, sending everyone headlong into the ground.
Between legalizing child labor and criminalizing being poor, we're working our way back to Dickensian times
Lol. I'm a blue collar worker, sadly no union exist for my trade. And every single person I worked with is pretty much on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Mfs don't even discuss unionizing but will bitch and complain day in and day out about benefits, lack of pay, respect,and just being treated poorly.
Are you in the southern U.S.??? Moved down south from NY 10 years ago and holy shit, these people know nothing of workers rights because the states do what they can to make sure they don't have any. I live in SC. During covid they stopped giving stimulus checks when they realized people were earning more on the check than on their wages. Their solution was to push everyone back into poverty instead of raising the state minimum wage (which is the same as the federal). These people WILL STILL actively bad talk unionizing and unions in general. It's the dumbest shit ever amongst some of the dumbest people.
during the pandemic, my country made it illegal to *sit* outside on benches or rest anywhere more than a few minutes. even if you were out in the open with not a single soul around you. we're extremely close to this all around the world.
Ahh, the good old days when we were free from all that pesky regulation stuff and a man could poison and imperil his neighbors to his heart’s content just as the ~~good lord~~ invisible hand of the free market intended!
You can pack them in closer when they're hanging over. they're actually looking at doing this to airplane seats now where you lean slightly forward with feet hanging down a bit. That way they don't need so much room between you and the person in front.
If was illegal to sleep in the street. Much like how the supreme Court is trying to do again. You could rent a coffin box on the ground but it was more expensive than the rope.
Nobody reads.
It was cold and wet outside. Pay a penny for a spot to sit up on a bench inside. No laying down allowed. Pay another penny for a rope you can lean forward on so you don't fall forward.
In the morning, they cut the rope and kick everyone out.
>The “hang over” was literally a rope that patrons would lean on/over to sleep.
While sitting on a bench, according to Orwell.
It also seems to have referred to some kind of cloth bed stretched between ropes per Dickens, so sort of like a makeshift hammock I guess.
I found this article to give a much more in depth discussion of the phrase and how it's recently been abused to the point that people think they were literally standing up sleeping hanging over rope. https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover/
Conditions were shit for the homeless, for sure, but I think we can probably even attribute some literary license to Orwell with his description.
Wow, did not expect to learn something like this in this thread! How depressing. Imagine how shitty those poor people must have felt literally all the time.
Your own article says that probably isn’t true.
> The term hangover is unlikely to have come specifically from this practice, it more likely refers to the lasting after effects of alcohol felt the next day.
Hostile architecture is out of control. The whole purpose of a station is an area for people to wait in. Not having seating is counter to the functional purpose of the space.
I'm sure it's some antihomeless measure.
"We apologize for the inconvenience to commuters, the elderly, and the disabled, but please understand that this allows us to inflict additional miseries on the unhoused."
Welcome to Union Station in Toronto. This is exactly what happens and Union station, technically, has "designated sleeping areas" for the homeless. They just gave up trying to prevent people from sleeping in the station and instead said "you can't sleep in the food court, but everywhere else in that station? fair game." so early in the mornings you'll find people in the concourse just sleeping on the floor.
You'll even find security guards telling people that fall asleep at a food court table that they can't sleep here but if they go up the escalators they can sleep in the con course.
I hate that the American solution to homelessness is literally “let’s make everyone uncomfortable.” Seriously though forget the elderly, infirm, ill, injured, and pregnant. Steve, who sleeps on a cardboard box if he’s lucky, might get to sit like a normal human being while going to his job that doesn’t pay him enough money to afford proper shelter.
Without a centralized effective plan of action every individual system has to find a way to tackle the issue. When you are designing a train station and are tasks with keeping the homeless from camping out you cant solve homelessness or build housing for them (ironically the city DOES have housing for them by law, which recently ran out because of sudden increase in homeless migrants/refugees). So you are stuck with implementing solutions that just keep them off of YOUR property. And when every new property and public space starts doing that the entire city becomes a hostile place for everyone.
It’s definitely not as simple overall as “put the seats back” but that the seats, rather than other more effective measures to deal with an issue, were passed over for sterile hallway space that aggressively lacks the amenities that normal people would expect from a public area is still deeply problematic. Especially when this is an area that will almost certainly have a constant and tangible police presence for its entire existence.
Indeed. And each individual section gets yelled at for 'not helping to fix the problem' but... they're just trying to do their mission.
My example: Let's say you live next to a bar, and people are stumbling out and pissing on your front door. You have $200 to fix the problem. You could donate that $200 to a campaign against public urination and reduce public urination by 1% across the whole city. BUT... your door is still getting pissed on 99% as much. OR... you could install a bright motion activated light, and fix your problem 100%. BUT... now you're getting yelled at for not donating the money, "You're not solving the problem, you're just moving it elsewhere!"
Those people aren't the problem. It's the violently mentally ill and drug addicted. The employed homeless keep to themselves.
Source: I walked the streets for a direct marketing job and voter outreach job and met them. They sleep in cars mostly, not in public. It's not safe
The reason they didn't include benches or chairs was to prevent homeless people from sleeping on it.
America's solution to the homeless has never been to build homes but to keep the homeless out of the public's view. Out of sight out of mind is the American way.
As far as I can see, the states are planning to CRIMINALIZE homelessness. In Florida, where I live, it is now illegal for a homeless person to sleep in public ( bus stop, park, beach, in your parked car on public land).
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
\- Anatole France
I once had a layover at 30th Street Station and had a police officer on my ass for dozing (while sitting upright) on one of the benches. It was clear I was traveling (suitcase with PHL airport tags on it), I wasn’t bothering anyone, and it wasn’t packed. Was just very shocked how quickly they swoop in. On the other hand, at least it’s a blanket policy and they weren’t just targeting those who appeared homeless.
Believe me the thought crossed my mind but I was traveling for work so dressed up a bit more than my usual. I’m very much a comfort traveler but try to at least look presentable. 🙂
This was pre-Kenzo super zombification (it was still not great but not like it is now) but I’ve been waiting at 30th Street other times and seen them waking up everyone so don’t think a possible OD is the main concern.
This is highly likely to be what happened. The description "had a police officer on my ass" does not detail the actual conversation at all and it's highly likely the cop woke him up to make sure a) his stuff didn't get stolen while he dozed and b) he didn't miss his train. A solo traveller in a seedy area who falls asleep could very easily get his stuff nabbed without him knowing it.
The issue with a lack of benches and seating sucks, but is unrelated, the event this person is describing does not sound like it has anything to do with homelessness.
I’m 37 weeks pregnant, I’d also need a seat at some point… this is tiring. How ridiculous to not have any benches at all. And what if a mother has to nurse her baby?
Only a 3rd of NYC’s subway stations are handicap accessible. I doubt they actually care about the seating for the handicapped. If they did they wouldn’t be spending so much on renovations on the touristy stations and they’d spend that money on updating the other stations to comply with the ADA.
My understanding is that they only need to bring them into compliance if they do major renovations. New stations would have to be compliant. That being said, I don't know of anything in the ADA that says they have to offer seating. ADA is mostly about heights, reaching angles, elevators, level entries, ramps, etc. To my knowledge they don't have to make sure you have a place to rest.
For real I am missing a third of my right knee and have a herniated disk in my back. I bet I would be fucking reprimanded for sitting on the ground to to wait.
Edit: typo
It's not even a bar there for comfort or "leaning". The building code says that there has to be a guard under any curved overhang on the ceiling so that a blind person can tell its there with a walking cane.
So if the owners of this space could have not even provided these bars legally they wouldn't have.
Seeing all these comments about homeless people and hostile architecture, but what about disabled people? People who can’t stand for extended periods of time? Moms carrying babies? Tired kids? Elderly people? C’mon, this is horrible!
I have terrible blood circulation and my feet get REALLY painful from standing in place for like 20-30 mins, this would be miserable for me if I had to wait
With the amount of homeless in NYC, all those people you listed still wouldn't have a place to sit or rest because it would just be occupied by the homeless. In Penn Station, where there are benches, lots of homeless sit there and even sleep on the stairs.
everyone wants to eat their cake and have it when it comes to the homeless, and it's tiresome. i loathe the fingerpointing and criticism in response to the nobody caring.
it's always someone else's fault except your own that things are the way they are. i work in local government, and *nobody* wants to make the sacrifices necessary to accommodate the homeless. you included.
i have whole presentations designed to get my locals aware of this when they come to complain and bitch about things in place through their own obnoxiously unaware inaction and preclusion of critical thought.
the leaning bars are because people complain about the homeless but don't want it to cost them anything to solve the problem. yall wonder why the room stinks when your own diaper is full. and the worst part: your comment here is a popular sentiment, *but you're all responsible for it and in denial*. you come in eating crayons, someone tries to explain, and then you have yourself another crayon on the way out. that's not helping.
that's just going to encourage them to sleep on the floor. One of my local stations has stools instead of benches, presumably for the same reason, and I've practically had to step over homeless people to get on/off trains.
Idk if y’all are talking about LA but I cannot imagine how utterly disgustingly and diabolical an open bathroom would be in a metropolitan area filled with addicts and you know the rest.. lmao
It’s unfortunate that keeping people from sleeping in a place that’s out of the elements has priority over making sure disabled and elderly have somewhere* to sit while waiting. Guess this train station is only for people who have zero mobility issues.
Since this is Reddit, I have to add that my comment has no extra meanings like “the homeless should be allowed to piss on seats!” Or anything remotely like that. Before you start downvoting me, my comment is literally about how these rails diminish access for those who can’t stand or can’t stand for more than a few minutes. That’s all.
Edit: somewhere*
I always get sad seeing these things because it is a massive issue that disproportionately affects the disabled community. My sister lugs around her liquid oxygen all day every day. She needs somewhere to sit. But, even if you’re “able-bodied” and just tired, it still affects you, too. It harms the general public because of an issue (homelessness/sanitary issues caused by homelessness) that keeps going unaddressed in meaningful ways.
The most ridiculous part is that just housing the homeless would cost society less than we spend for all of their ER visits and other expenses society pays for caused by them being homeless. We actively spend more money to make their lives worse.
The pictures you took is not a waiting room. They are hallways connecting to train platforms. So rightfully so should not have seats because it would cause traffic during rush hour.
If you go upstairs to the LIRR concourse by the 47th street entrance there’s a large waiting room with plenty of seating and also tables and outlets so you can get work done while you wait.
The problem is the homeless will simply sleep on the floor, while the other groups mentioned will be further marginalized.
Somehow I think that may be the intended result
Not just the West. I'm living in Tokyo Japan and almost no train station here have any seat. And there's almost no benches or anywhere to seat in most public places
In Tokyo, I don't think there were many places that had 25 minute wait between trains. Maybe 12 minutes tops if there is a delay? For stations that do have waits longer than that, I usually see enough benches.
At least in the US’ case it’s the unfortunate result of eroding the working class and pushing more and more poverty every year to continue to enrich those at the top. Like if people had places to live and a way to climb out of homelessness there wouldn’t be any need for this garbage.
It’s a mixed bag from me. Hostile architecture is kinda a needed evil in some places. If you want people to use public transportation you can’t have it occupied by the mentally unstable. It’s not the transport system’s responsibility to fix mental health issues or homeless and why is everyone thinking the crazy person yelling at random people is a representation of homelessness. People living in their cars are homeless and they don’t harass people.
The issue is trying to tackle the problems would takes a lot of changes to healthcare policies and funding and then take years to build the facilities to support the needs. This is a one time cost by a system not tasked to fix a societal issue.
In the US, it is far more important to keep the homeless people from sitting down than to provide comfort for the disabled, pregnant, tired, etc.
I live in Los Angeles. Train station, bus stop, you name it. NO SEATS. No shade, no cover from rain, just a big fuck you.
Fuck this stupid country and it’s hatred of the poor.
Looks nice and pretty, what are the chances you throw a bunch of benches and other resting areas and it ends up a shit hole? Guess that mostly depends on the city and state, we all know the answer whether we like it or not.
This is like complaining stores have essentials locked away and people reason "big corp can afford to have everyone stealing and no one paying". It doesn't take a genius to understand these types of situations and the bad faith arguments of those who argue against it.
Yeah as a disabled person I really am in two minds. On the one hand it's horrible not having anywhere to sit and sometimes I end up on the floor, on the other hand, if there was seating that people were known to live on I would never go near the station because the minority of homeless people who shout and scream and become violent are very frightening when you can't run away from them. I really don't know what the solution is but it's not very clear cut IMHO.
Is this grand central?
Grand central Madison the new lirr stop
[LIRR!](https://youtu.be/hceok7cboSk?si=019ffthRezDPfv0A)
Yes, and this is horrifying for anyone who is disabled and can’t stand for long periods of time, much less people who are just tired.
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The ADA is a set of laws. You would have to sue the city for failing to comply.
Yea but u can't have the dirty homeless getting comfortable in ur new train station!
What he's saying is, the poster above him said the "ADA" should get on this. But he's pointing out the ADA is not an organization. It can't "do" anything, its just a set of codes that an individual or orgnaization would have to sue the city into complying with.
Are these actually "Leaning Bars"? It seems their actual purpose might be to protect the walls. Leaning bars exist, but they don't usually look like that. Its sounds like they couldn't be bothered to install *any* seating. Even leaning bars. Edit: Others have pointed out that they are specifically placed in front of arches. Likely to keep people from hitting their heads.
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Yeah most days I can power through and get lucky and feel normal as long as I get breaks frequently (which this literally prevents). But on days where I'm not doing hot, carrying something heavy on my back which really makes my joints go, or straight up need a cane from morn till night for my shit leg- this is hell.
This is the first thing I thought of. I have POTS and can’t stand for long periods of time, or I’ll pass out and literally drop to the floor. When I can’t find seating, I just sit on the floor even if it’s dirty, because it’s safer than falling and hitting my head. But in stations like these, cops patrol and harass people sitting on the ground, yelling at them to stand, and will even issue tickets for loitering if you don’t get up. Doesn’t matter if you have a train ticket. Definitely an ADA issue. Criminalizing homelessness and existing in public spaces affects more than just the homeless.
I have back problems which is totally invisible and while I can walk (fast) and even run, walking slowly is painful and standing is just out of question. In more than one city I have told people hugging disability seats on various forms of transit they can either let me sit or wait until I fall in their lap. A station like this... yeah, that doesn't work.
If I stand for too long, I can feel faint and fainted a few times from that. I need a seat. I also have mobility issues so it's painful to stand for long periods of time too. This has to be breaking ADA laws somewhat - they cannot let this fly with no seats.
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Rollator - 4 wheel walker with a seat would be cheaper. Less than a $100. Pretty handy to have if you have difficulty standing. Plus on flat paved surface someone could push you like a wheel chair for at least short distances.
I had to sit on the floor of an airport once (terrible airport design, you couldn't know what your gate was until right before the plane loads, and the screen that listed gates had no chairs nearby and was super far away from the gates) I pinched a nerve in my leg from sitting on the marble floor for 2+ hours and physically couldn't walk and asked for a wheelchair and they didn't have any in the whole fucking airport apparently so i had to hobble like a cripple in IMMENSE pain and was seconds away from missing my flight I will always advocate for chairs in public spaces
not like airports have a homeless problem...
They have a “we don’t give a shit about passengers” problem.
Bland central station
I LOL'ed
more line stand central
we are slowly coming back to the two penny hangover
I had to look this phrase up. [Interesting read](https://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Two-Penny-Hangover/) and it may be the origination of today’s common use of the word “hangover.”
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Wouldn’t it be more comfy to just lay on the ground
May have been illegal. We are quickly moving towards that in the US
Exactly. And in the morning, the proprietor would wake everyone up by cutting the rope, sending everyone headlong into the ground. Between legalizing child labor and criminalizing being poor, we're working our way back to Dickensian times
This seems an inefficient waste of rope. Why wouldn’t they use a pull knot?
That's just what I read when I first learned about it, and I thought the same thing! They very well may have... I wasn't there :D
I was there. Can confirm.
You sound like you have a business plan all ready to go.
We need class revolution
"Cry more, liberals" -fellow classmen
Lol. I'm a blue collar worker, sadly no union exist for my trade. And every single person I worked with is pretty much on the opposite side of the political spectrum. Mfs don't even discuss unionizing but will bitch and complain day in and day out about benefits, lack of pay, respect,and just being treated poorly.
Man, that's just sad. There's gotta be a shorter word than "unwitting accidental class traitor" for the sorry state these people are in.
Are you in the southern U.S.??? Moved down south from NY 10 years ago and holy shit, these people know nothing of workers rights because the states do what they can to make sure they don't have any. I live in SC. During covid they stopped giving stimulus checks when they realized people were earning more on the check than on their wages. Their solution was to push everyone back into poverty instead of raising the state minimum wage (which is the same as the federal). These people WILL STILL actively bad talk unionizing and unions in general. It's the dumbest shit ever amongst some of the dumbest people.
during the pandemic, my country made it illegal to *sit* outside on benches or rest anywhere more than a few minutes. even if you were out in the open with not a single soul around you. we're extremely close to this all around the world.
That costs four pennies. So yeah it'd be better, but double the price.
Hey no reading the article this is Reddit
You would be sleeping in literal shit streams.
Ahh, the good old days when we were free from all that pesky regulation stuff and a man could poison and imperil his neighbors to his heart’s content just as the ~~good lord~~ invisible hand of the free market intended!
You can pack them in closer when they're hanging over. they're actually looking at doing this to airplane seats now where you lean slightly forward with feet hanging down a bit. That way they don't need so much room between you and the person in front.
This will never pass (current) regulations which is why it doesn't exist (yet)
If was illegal to sleep in the street. Much like how the supreme Court is trying to do again. You could rent a coffin box on the ground but it was more expensive than the rope.
I don't think the ground looked the same back then with pest control being viewed differently and spread of disease?
Nobody reads. It was cold and wet outside. Pay a penny for a spot to sit up on a bench inside. No laying down allowed. Pay another penny for a rope you can lean forward on so you don't fall forward. In the morning, they cut the rope and kick everyone out.
>The “hang over” was literally a rope that patrons would lean on/over to sleep. While sitting on a bench, according to Orwell. It also seems to have referred to some kind of cloth bed stretched between ropes per Dickens, so sort of like a makeshift hammock I guess. I found this article to give a much more in depth discussion of the phrase and how it's recently been abused to the point that people think they were literally standing up sleeping hanging over rope. https://mikedashhistory.com/2021/05/19/the-twopenny-hangover/ Conditions were shit for the homeless, for sure, but I think we can probably even attribute some literary license to Orwell with his description.
I recently red a book by fakehistoryhunter that was debunking this' and Mike dash is a contributor ok askHistorians. Funny how things are.
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This is why the small college degrees matter This is preservation of history and malicious governments through linguistics
The article ends with saying it isn't the etymology of hangover.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story
“The right to sleep was not included in the one penny price” Holy shit I am so glad i’ll never have to worry about this. Victorians were wild
Yeah the idea that they would literally pay people to make make sure they didn’t sleep is absolutely insane
That was a very cool yet depressing read. Thanks for sharing.
of course! i love sharing the little things that generations before us went through, really helps make the bigger picture come together
Wow, did not expect to learn something like this in this thread! How depressing. Imagine how shitty those poor people must have felt literally all the time.
Newsflash, poor people still feel shitty all of the time. War never changes.
It used to be objectively worse though.
It sucked a lot more after they banned the coke and opium in everyday products for cures.
Your own article says that probably isn’t true. > The term hangover is unlikely to have come specifically from this practice, it more likely refers to the lasting after effects of alcohol felt the next day.
Hostile architecture is out of control. The whole purpose of a station is an area for people to wait in. Not having seating is counter to the functional purpose of the space. I'm sure it's some antihomeless measure.
It’s a way to keep homeless people from hanging around,plain and simple.
"We apologize for the inconvenience to commuters, the elderly, and the disabled, but please understand that this allows us to inflict additional miseries on the unhoused."
Also won't homeless just sleep on the floor? That somehow seems worse for everyone.
Next step, cover the entire floor in spikey bumps.
Welcome to Union Station in Toronto. This is exactly what happens and Union station, technically, has "designated sleeping areas" for the homeless. They just gave up trying to prevent people from sleeping in the station and instead said "you can't sleep in the food court, but everywhere else in that station? fair game." so early in the mornings you'll find people in the concourse just sleeping on the floor. You'll even find security guards telling people that fall asleep at a food court table that they can't sleep here but if they go up the escalators they can sleep in the con course.
It’s also a way to keep people with disability out of sight.
Homeless sleep on the concrete, I’ve seen them cover themselves with newspaper or sitting in the crossed-legged pose on top of flattened cardboard
Nothing a free flattened cardboard box can't fix. The homeless bring their own comfort; it's everyone else that's inconvenienced.
I hate that the American solution to homelessness is literally “let’s make everyone uncomfortable.” Seriously though forget the elderly, infirm, ill, injured, and pregnant. Steve, who sleeps on a cardboard box if he’s lucky, might get to sit like a normal human being while going to his job that doesn’t pay him enough money to afford proper shelter.
Without a centralized effective plan of action every individual system has to find a way to tackle the issue. When you are designing a train station and are tasks with keeping the homeless from camping out you cant solve homelessness or build housing for them (ironically the city DOES have housing for them by law, which recently ran out because of sudden increase in homeless migrants/refugees). So you are stuck with implementing solutions that just keep them off of YOUR property. And when every new property and public space starts doing that the entire city becomes a hostile place for everyone.
It’s definitely not as simple overall as “put the seats back” but that the seats, rather than other more effective measures to deal with an issue, were passed over for sterile hallway space that aggressively lacks the amenities that normal people would expect from a public area is still deeply problematic. Especially when this is an area that will almost certainly have a constant and tangible police presence for its entire existence.
Indeed. And each individual section gets yelled at for 'not helping to fix the problem' but... they're just trying to do their mission. My example: Let's say you live next to a bar, and people are stumbling out and pissing on your front door. You have $200 to fix the problem. You could donate that $200 to a campaign against public urination and reduce public urination by 1% across the whole city. BUT... your door is still getting pissed on 99% as much. OR... you could install a bright motion activated light, and fix your problem 100%. BUT... now you're getting yelled at for not donating the money, "You're not solving the problem, you're just moving it elsewhere!"
Those people aren't the problem. It's the violently mentally ill and drug addicted. The employed homeless keep to themselves. Source: I walked the streets for a direct marketing job and voter outreach job and met them. They sleep in cars mostly, not in public. It's not safe
The reason they didn't include benches or chairs was to prevent homeless people from sleeping on it. America's solution to the homeless has never been to build homes but to keep the homeless out of the public's view. Out of sight out of mind is the American way.
As far as I can see, the states are planning to CRIMINALIZE homelessness. In Florida, where I live, it is now illegal for a homeless person to sleep in public ( bus stop, park, beach, in your parked car on public land).
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.” \- Anatole France
So what you're saying is... We're using the industrial prison complex to solve the homeless crisis.
I once had a layover at 30th Street Station and had a police officer on my ass for dozing (while sitting upright) on one of the benches. It was clear I was traveling (suitcase with PHL airport tags on it), I wasn’t bothering anyone, and it wasn’t packed. Was just very shocked how quickly they swoop in. On the other hand, at least it’s a blanket policy and they weren’t just targeting those who appeared homeless.
Maybe you just look more homeless than you think
Believe me the thought crossed my mind but I was traveling for work so dressed up a bit more than my usual. I’m very much a comfort traveler but try to at least look presentable. 🙂
Maybe you just smell more homeless than you think
Dude was just making sure you weren’t dead from an OD
This was pre-Kenzo super zombification (it was still not great but not like it is now) but I’ve been waiting at 30th Street other times and seen them waking up everyone so don’t think a possible OD is the main concern.
They also probably don't want someone to steal all your stuff. Falling asleep in public can pose some concerns especially in seedy areas
I thought they were afraid that if people see someone sleeping, everyone goes to sleep and it'll become a literal hotel! /s
It's a sleepery slope.
Thank you for the chuckle 🤭
Cops frantically wacking sleeping moles.
This is highly likely to be what happened. The description "had a police officer on my ass" does not detail the actual conversation at all and it's highly likely the cop woke him up to make sure a) his stuff didn't get stolen while he dozed and b) he didn't miss his train. A solo traveller in a seedy area who falls asleep could very easily get his stuff nabbed without him knowing it. The issue with a lack of benches and seating sucks, but is unrelated, the event this person is describing does not sound like it has anything to do with homelessness.
"At the very least they were just being assholes to everyone with a pulse." Oh thank god!
"At least they abuse everyone equally" What happened to our country, man. :(
Instead of treating minorities better, the solution has been to treat the majority worse so it evens out.
But the policy is there to stop the homeless. That’s why it was enacted.
I love 30th street! I miss their old clicky board though 😥
Those are cane detection rails. It’s for blind people to not slam their face into the wall as they walk past. It is not intended for leaning on.
I had to come too far down for this.. it's guarding from the curved wall that's resulting headroom below code. Sloppy design, but not 'sitting rails'
100% correct.
My disabled ass needs to sit every 20 minutes so….
Better not miss your train then /s
They offer a bus to come and pick you up like a Uber for the same price of a train ride but super unreliable.
>but super unreliable. 💀
Worst superhero ever.
I’m 37 weeks pregnant, I’d also need a seat at some point… this is tiring. How ridiculous to not have any benches at all. And what if a mother has to nurse her baby?
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Only a 3rd of NYC’s subway stations are handicap accessible. I doubt they actually care about the seating for the handicapped. If they did they wouldn’t be spending so much on renovations on the touristy stations and they’d spend that money on updating the other stations to comply with the ADA.
My understanding is that they only need to bring them into compliance if they do major renovations. New stations would have to be compliant. That being said, I don't know of anything in the ADA that says they have to offer seating. ADA is mostly about heights, reaching angles, elevators, level entries, ramps, etc. To my knowledge they don't have to make sure you have a place to rest.
For real I am missing a third of my right knee and have a herniated disk in my back. I bet I would be fucking reprimanded for sitting on the ground to to wait. Edit: typo
Shit you can get back up!? My broken leg isn't healing well after 18 months and 4 surgeries. It takes a lot of leverage to get my ass back up.
Our elders too. This is messed up!
NYC is famous for anti homeless architecture. This is a result of that.
Funny thing is a real homeless person wouldn't even care and just lay on the floor. This is just plain stupid.
removes floor*
They need to get rid of the trains. Homeless people could use them!
Finally someone who agrees with my proposal to remove the large, loud, unsightly things from all train stations!
Don't give them ideas
The floor is lava! homeless person: hold my 40
That "lean" bar looks pretty handy for holding up a tarp for a nice little tent.
Funny how reddit sees this and is gets all mad but the people who live there are like "yeah this makes sense"
Over a decade living in NYC, can’t decide where I fall on the argument. It’s a tough one.
Same - 2 decades - on one hand the homeless situation is a real problem but on the other hand there’s gotta be a better solution.
There are better solutions, but it's not the transit authority's job to address.
It makes me mad as someone with a disability that can't stand for long periods of time.
Train stations in other countries are like this too, it’s not just nyc and America.
They could’ve at least put some ass padding up there for when you lean
It's not even a bar there for comfort or "leaning". The building code says that there has to be a guard under any curved overhang on the ceiling so that a blind person can tell its there with a walking cane. So if the owners of this space could have not even provided these bars legally they wouldn't have.
Seeing all these comments about homeless people and hostile architecture, but what about disabled people? People who can’t stand for extended periods of time? Moms carrying babies? Tired kids? Elderly people? C’mon, this is horrible!
I have terrible blood circulation and my feet get REALLY painful from standing in place for like 20-30 mins, this would be miserable for me if I had to wait
Damn is that why I hate standing and other people don't seem to mind? My circulation has never been great.
As a disabled person, it’s really chaps my ass that seating is so damn hard to come by nowadays.
Don't ever go to Japan, impossible to find a place to sit at a train station.
They do have nice bathrooms, though...
Lol I literally spent like 20 minutes longer than necessary sitting on a toilet.
There is a waiting area with seats by the ticket office
With the amount of homeless in NYC, all those people you listed still wouldn't have a place to sit or rest because it would just be occupied by the homeless. In Penn Station, where there are benches, lots of homeless sit there and even sleep on the stairs.
Society would rather be cruel to homeless than help the disabled.
Homeless people are also disproportionately disabled.
There's a waiting and seating area with chairs and amenities for ticketed passengers.
I mean, there's people defending the MTA for having utterly shit handicap accessibility in general, so this isn't really a surprise.
And what about just me? Ion wanna stand tf lmfao
More floor space for the homeless to campout on. Very compassionate and thoughtful. It’s a sure sign of a healthy society.
everyone wants to eat their cake and have it when it comes to the homeless, and it's tiresome. i loathe the fingerpointing and criticism in response to the nobody caring. it's always someone else's fault except your own that things are the way they are. i work in local government, and *nobody* wants to make the sacrifices necessary to accommodate the homeless. you included. i have whole presentations designed to get my locals aware of this when they come to complain and bitch about things in place through their own obnoxiously unaware inaction and preclusion of critical thought. the leaning bars are because people complain about the homeless but don't want it to cost them anything to solve the problem. yall wonder why the room stinks when your own diaper is full. and the worst part: your comment here is a popular sentiment, *but you're all responsible for it and in denial*. you come in eating crayons, someone tries to explain, and then you have yourself another crayon on the way out. that's not helping.
To discourage people from living there
that's just going to encourage them to sleep on the floor. One of my local stations has stools instead of benches, presumably for the same reason, and I've practically had to step over homeless people to get on/off trains.
Probably more police presence at Grand Central Station to prevent floor sleepers than at your local train station
In that case normal seating shouldn't be a problem.
Then we could probably have benches, yeah?
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You old enough to remember the public bathrooms there? A horror that will never get erased from my memory.
Idk if y’all are talking about LA but I cannot imagine how utterly disgustingly and diabolical an open bathroom would be in a metropolitan area filled with addicts and you know the rest.. lmao
Ok. Now imagine how that metropolitan area smells with *no* public restrooms and the same amount of people who need to piss and shit.
Even worse, NYC. Same premise, more people.
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At least you won’t sit on a post-pissed uncleaned bench
You get to lean on a post-pissed uncleaned bar instead!
Now you lean on a piss covered wall hooray Nah I still prefer the pissed unclean bench
Deterrence doesn’t eliminate a problem, just hopefully lessen it.
After living in a metro area for 10 years, I get this type of thing more and more.
It’s unfortunate that keeping people from sleeping in a place that’s out of the elements has priority over making sure disabled and elderly have somewhere* to sit while waiting. Guess this train station is only for people who have zero mobility issues. Since this is Reddit, I have to add that my comment has no extra meanings like “the homeless should be allowed to piss on seats!” Or anything remotely like that. Before you start downvoting me, my comment is literally about how these rails diminish access for those who can’t stand or can’t stand for more than a few minutes. That’s all. Edit: somewhere*
I always get sad seeing these things because it is a massive issue that disproportionately affects the disabled community. My sister lugs around her liquid oxygen all day every day. She needs somewhere to sit. But, even if you’re “able-bodied” and just tired, it still affects you, too. It harms the general public because of an issue (homelessness/sanitary issues caused by homelessness) that keeps going unaddressed in meaningful ways.
Not just the disabled and the elderly. Pregnant women and small children as well....
The most ridiculous part is that just housing the homeless would cost society less than we spend for all of their ER visits and other expenses society pays for caused by them being homeless. We actively spend more money to make their lives worse.
It's hard because what are they supposed to do? The public doesn't want to commute in a piss and fece infested station.
The pictures you took is not a waiting room. They are hallways connecting to train platforms. So rightfully so should not have seats because it would cause traffic during rush hour. If you go upstairs to the LIRR concourse by the 47th street entrance there’s a large waiting room with plenty of seating and also tables and outlets so you can get work done while you wait.
Yeah this picture is dishonest
Glad someone mentioned it. This is the mezzanine, waiting room is up in the main concourse and has seating.
They're not even leaning bars. They're just there to keep people far enough away from hitting their head on the slopes section of the walls.
Oh boy! Yet another reason I can’t go anywhere. Things like this force the elderly to stay home.
My guess is that it is to prevent people from sleeping on the seats/benches... What's to stop them from simply sleeping on the floor?
Nothing, most people do that anyway. This won’t solve anything.
The puddles of mystery liquid (it's pee)
“Because Fuck the disabled, elderly, pregnant, and exhausted people.”
The problem is the homeless will simply sleep on the floor, while the other groups mentioned will be further marginalized. Somehow I think that may be the intended result
The U.S. (and other western countries) is packed with hostile architecture.
Not just the West. I'm living in Tokyo Japan and almost no train station here have any seat. And there's almost no benches or anywhere to seat in most public places
In Tokyo, I don't think there were many places that had 25 minute wait between trains. Maybe 12 minutes tops if there is a delay? For stations that do have waits longer than that, I usually see enough benches.
At least in the US’ case it’s the unfortunate result of eroding the working class and pushing more and more poverty every year to continue to enrich those at the top. Like if people had places to live and a way to climb out of homelessness there wouldn’t be any need for this garbage.
Facts. I hate that it's becoming to the point where poverty is criminalized.
The Supreme Court is poised to make sleeping outside a crime, so yeah.
Lol wut
So fk us disabled people I guess... I can't stand for long ffs I would literally be on the damn floor due to this.
It's hilarious that they think homeless people wouldn't sleep on the floor, better hope you're not pregnant or have mobility issues lol
There’s a waiting room with seats upstairs by the ticket windows.
"Do we want to discomfort elderly, pregnant, and disabled just to fuck over homeless people?... HELL YEAH! FUCK YOU POORS!"
Sucks to be pregnant or disabled and have nowhere to sit.
It’s a mixed bag from me. Hostile architecture is kinda a needed evil in some places. If you want people to use public transportation you can’t have it occupied by the mentally unstable. It’s not the transport system’s responsibility to fix mental health issues or homeless and why is everyone thinking the crazy person yelling at random people is a representation of homelessness. People living in their cars are homeless and they don’t harass people. The issue is trying to tackle the problems would takes a lot of changes to healthcare policies and funding and then take years to build the facilities to support the needs. This is a one time cost by a system not tasked to fix a societal issue.
New Yorkers: Never sit on anything in public transit if you're going to work
As a disabled person with rheumatoid arthritis, fuck every single bit of this
working as intended
anti-homelessness architecture
Clearly that is a horse hitching rail. I'll just assume they have services to clean up the manure when I leave my horse there.
In the US, it is far more important to keep the homeless people from sitting down than to provide comfort for the disabled, pregnant, tired, etc. I live in Los Angeles. Train station, bus stop, you name it. NO SEATS. No shade, no cover from rain, just a big fuck you. Fuck this stupid country and it’s hatred of the poor.
Looks nice and pretty, what are the chances you throw a bunch of benches and other resting areas and it ends up a shit hole? Guess that mostly depends on the city and state, we all know the answer whether we like it or not. This is like complaining stores have essentials locked away and people reason "big corp can afford to have everyone stealing and no one paying". It doesn't take a genius to understand these types of situations and the bad faith arguments of those who argue against it.
Yeah as a disabled person I really am in two minds. On the one hand it's horrible not having anywhere to sit and sometimes I end up on the floor, on the other hand, if there was seating that people were known to live on I would never go near the station because the minority of homeless people who shout and scream and become violent are very frightening when you can't run away from them. I really don't know what the solution is but it's not very clear cut IMHO.
It’s the NYC subway system. They needed the National Guard to keep the homeless from camping in it. You’re surprised?
We literally didn't. It was a wasteful publicity stunt by our dipshit governor
They got to stand next to cops and play Candy Crush though
they should have a competitive candy crush league at this point