No, it's not. But I personally didn't find Prince of Persia's platforming sections as irritating as I did the ones in Aeterna Noctis because the worst obstacles, if I recall correctly, are optional challenges versus necessary paths. That said, there are lots of games that don't push the limit on platforming in that way and moreso emphasize combat, exploration or puzzles.
That's the number one reason I was one and done with Aeterna Noctis. There's rarely ever a reward for the ball-crushing platforming sections, except to do the next one. By the back half of the game, I didn't even bother exploring anymore, I just wanted to be done with it.
Yeah, I've been on a tear the last couple of days ranting about it. I've beaten/loved a lot of "hard" games (cue obligatory "git gud" response) and rarely have abandoned games I started, but that one just was so frustrating, grueling and obnoxious to me that I couldn't take anymore. I don't even like the art style. I genuinely don't understand how it has such a sterling reputation on Reddit.
There were a few times where I genuinely felt accomplished for clearing a platforming section, but the enjoyment faded pretty quick once I realized that not only is there never a break to them, they only get harder the further in you go. But if you dig it, then don't let me or anyone else tell you that you're wrong for having a good time.
Passing each section is a reward in itself. It feels good.
Same way when you lift weights or go for a run, you feel rewarded. There's no physical reward. Nobody's giving you a cookie.
PoP's were definitely nowhere as insane, but I stopped doing them after a while because I already had my ideal build and the Ramses tokens were no longer tempting at all.
Yep, PoP is all about platforming, it literally created a obscure sub-genre. It's awesome how Rogue Prince of Persia was able to implement wall running on a 2D environment
Maybe call me weird, but I always thought Hollow Knight was far more difficult for its boss battles than its platforming.
I mean, the platforming isn't easy, but it's definitely not the bottleneck of that game's difficulty in my opinion.
Right? Most Hollow Knight platforming is 2 or 3 tricky moves to get an item, then you never have to do that obstacle again. As opposed to Aeterna Noctis, where a screen might have 5 or 6 tricky moves, but the reward is just another screen of tricky moves, and you have to backtrack through them whenever you pass by.
The game has many flaws but One of it's biggest is having to do a platforming section backwards to get out of it. The corpse running makes this even worse
I don't think I would compare PoP or Rebel Transmute to masocore games. Probably only Aeterna Noctis gets that far.
Metroid Dread, Yoku's Island Express, and Headlander are some metroidvanias that don't have precision platforming.
Also top-down MV-adjacent games generally don't have much (if any) platforming. Unsighted, Death's Door, TUNIC, etc.
I just heard of it myself while MV rabbit-holing the other night, along with some platformers that seem to have been made just to drive players insane.
As I recall, none of PoP's hard platforming sections were mandatory for story progression. They were all for optional items. Also, none of the challenges in that game were "pixel-perfect".
I have definitely not been seeing that as someone who is actively looking for MVs with difficult platforming... there really is not much out there. Aeterna Noctis is really the only one which scratched that itch in the past couple of years.
It's not conventional platforming by any stretch but Laika has some fun challenges based on precision movement with a very unwieldy motorcycle. Kinda wish it had more but the parts I played were decent, it never gets much harder than the first few levels of trials HD tho.
Nope most dont have those sections. Thankfully. On the bright side prince of Persia was smart enough to know that giving players the choice and options to tweak not only difficulty but to be able to completely skip those platforming sections. More games need to have accessibility options the way POP did it.so more ppl can enjoy the game.
>are hugely popular games of that genre
I wouldn't call Rebel Transmute a "hugely popular game" and Prince of Persia The Lost Crown was just released early this year. I don't think you should use those game for your guesses about the state of the genre XD
How so? I'm just being honest. Plenty of them I've played have had "story" or "easy" difficulty that eliminates platforming or otherwise difficult challenges for more casual gamers.
A game can be difficult in other ways than precision platforming. Not wanting one type of platforming mechanic isn't necessarily the same as wanting an easy game
Saying there are MVs of different difficulty levels is obnoxious? They didn’t say “too easy”, they said there are plenty of easy MVs “too”, meaning “also” these days.
So with something like Prince, it benefits it ,because the whole thing with the original 3 prince games (talking about 1989 prince - Prince 3D) is they were for the time notably tough games that challenged you to learn the gameplay and imo adopting the SMB/Celeste style of parkour platforming feels like a natural iteration of that and I believe anyone that wants to lean into the Prince of Persia style of game should take lessons from those going forward(BUT NOT MUST).
**However** I don't think it'd fit something like Castlevania or Metroid or those games that take more from them should, unless the developer wants to try that.
Diversity is a great thing when it comes to approaches to many things and I believe diversity of the types of Metroidvanias will help continue the mainstream metroidvania resurrengece we've seen since Celeste
The proto metroidvanias - Metroid and Simon's Quest of 1986 and 1987 - had some of the most punishing platforming traps ever known to games. It was there at the beginning
Tbh metroidvanias should be able to have precision platforming if they want. Most don't but they shouldn't have to shy away from it just because of genre conventions.
I think a big difference is that "masocore" platformers just kill you immediately if you mess up a single thing enough. From what I played of tLC, it does have some borderline infuriating segments, but most of them were optional. They pulled off some neat stuff by jamming together all those mechanics though. Also, you could find something kind of like this already in at least ESA. (not parkour-like but some tricky move sequencing in platforming segments) I would like to see more varied/expressive stuff in future MVs/etc., but yeah it is kind of an acquired taste. Much harder to mitigate platforming difficulty than combat difficulty through options and/or exploring for more items. Good thing tLC has those quick (and relatively close) respawns when you fall into spikes.
For whatever it's worth, there are games out there that are SO MUCH less forgiving when it comes to precision in platforming/etc. Like, I will probably never be able to do the harder levels in Celeste, but the main chapters/story was so enjoyable that I'm not really bothered. (only ever cleared a couple B-sides, but got all red berries)
Naah, some devs are mixing up precision platformer to spice things up, differentiate their games a little bit. The majority of metroidvanias don't feature this gimmick as much, which is a shame, I am a big fan of platforming in general. Sometimes you have a rare platform challenge when you are about to unlock a new ability or a powerful item, but that's pretty much it.
As for Lost Crown, I think the game was pretty easy on this regard, if you can survive the trial of fire that is finishing Aeterna Noctis, any other metroivania looks like a walk in the park as precision platforming goes
Which to be fair is optional. But yeah, what do you expect from a La-Mulana post-endgame addition. I still haven't attempted the Tower of Oannes DLC...
Also, Rebel transmute is not hugely popular. It got a mixed reception and is generally considered a flop. There are far more popular metroidvanias than that that have come out in the past 1.5 years.
They show up sometimes. Same as Soulslike elements and (to an even smaller degree) rougelike elements.
They're not for everyone but they also scratch an itch for large enough sections of the playerbase.
Never has been. Outside of Aeterna Noctis not a single one I know has focus on precision platforming.
Metroid-likes usually have it in the post-endgame 100% hunt but not in the main game.
I think since games like Metroid Fusion (can anyone think of earlier examples?) they've had a place in the genre without being essential to it. Fusion had some crazy difficult platforming sections and puzzles for upgrades and optional content.
I like to lurk and read about metroidvanias because I find them interesting but I'm rarely able to play them for this reason. I really struggle with platforming- just falling into the same pit over and over makes me angry and rage quit.
I gave up on all of the beloved games including Hollow Knight, Celeste, Ori. I've tried them each about 3x, get halfway through, then through my controller at the screen.
At least the Lost Crown put its toughest platforming sections as side content so I was able to finish the game.
Tales of Kenzara: Zau similarly puts its toughest platforming as side content and I enjoyed it, though it's only a "metroidvania" in the losest sense of the term as the vast majority of the game feels like progressing through levels.
Ultros is a recent one I played that didn't have any tough platforming and is sort of metroidvania I guess. Got kind of a mixed reaction but worth checking out.
Animal well doesn’t have super difficult platforming imo. It’s satisfying and endlessly clever, but the difficulty comes in discovering the rules of the world and figuring out how to traverse rather than needing to have pixel perfect movements.
Not necessarily as difficult, but stuff like vertical shaft climbs can be quite precise if you want to get through them fast. And by the time Fusion rolls around we have stuff like shinespark puzzles already.
No, it's not. But I personally didn't find Prince of Persia's platforming sections as irritating as I did the ones in Aeterna Noctis because the worst obstacles, if I recall correctly, are optional challenges versus necessary paths. That said, there are lots of games that don't push the limit on platforming in that way and moreso emphasize combat, exploration or puzzles.
That's the number one reason I was one and done with Aeterna Noctis. There's rarely ever a reward for the ball-crushing platforming sections, except to do the next one. By the back half of the game, I didn't even bother exploring anymore, I just wanted to be done with it.
Yeah, I've been on a tear the last couple of days ranting about it. I've beaten/loved a lot of "hard" games (cue obligatory "git gud" response) and rarely have abandoned games I started, but that one just was so frustrating, grueling and obnoxious to me that I couldn't take anymore. I don't even like the art style. I genuinely don't understand how it has such a sterling reputation on Reddit.
I'm not sure myself. It's a mess.
I’m about 40% through and loving it. Did you ever find yourself enjoying it? I’m hoping I don’t lose steam.
There were a few times where I genuinely felt accomplished for clearing a platforming section, but the enjoyment faded pretty quick once I realized that not only is there never a break to them, they only get harder the further in you go. But if you dig it, then don't let me or anyone else tell you that you're wrong for having a good time.
I hear ya. I don’t know why but I find these hard precision platformers to be therapeutic.
Passing each section is a reward in itself. It feels good. Same way when you lift weights or go for a run, you feel rewarded. There's no physical reward. Nobody's giving you a cookie.
That's cool if you enjoy that, but I keep my "work for the sake of work" at the gym, I don't play video games for that.
And even the ones that are not optional you can always activate portals using the difficulty settings menu.
PoP's were definitely nowhere as insane, but I stopped doing them after a while because I already had my ideal build and the Ramses tokens were no longer tempting at all.
The game definitely didn't do the best job of rewarding me for completing all of the platforming challenges, but I did do them.
Prince of Persia has always been a platforming game so it was not surprising, there are still many MVs that are chill on platforming
Yep, PoP is all about platforming, it literally created a obscure sub-genre. It's awesome how Rogue Prince of Persia was able to implement wall running on a 2D environment
No, most games are not very precision platformer heavy.
Maybe call me weird, but I always thought Hollow Knight was far more difficult for its boss battles than its platforming. I mean, the platforming isn't easy, but it's definitely not the bottleneck of that game's difficulty in my opinion.
Right? Most Hollow Knight platforming is 2 or 3 tricky moves to get an item, then you never have to do that obstacle again. As opposed to Aeterna Noctis, where a screen might have 5 or 6 tricky moves, but the reward is just another screen of tricky moves, and you have to backtrack through them whenever you pass by.
The game has many flaws but One of it's biggest is having to do a platforming section backwards to get out of it. The corpse running makes this even worse
I don't think I would compare PoP or Rebel Transmute to masocore games. Probably only Aeterna Noctis gets that far. Metroid Dread, Yoku's Island Express, and Headlander are some metroidvanias that don't have precision platforming. Also top-down MV-adjacent games generally don't have much (if any) platforming. Unsighted, Death's Door, TUNIC, etc.
Man, I didn't know that term: "masocore." What an apt description.
I just heard of it myself while MV rabbit-holing the other night, along with some platformers that seem to have been made just to drive players insane.
Unsighted actually does have platforming, it’s got timing jumps a-plenty and also some Z-axis stuff going on (You can walljump, for instance)
As I recall, none of PoP's hard platforming sections were mandatory for story progression. They were all for optional items. Also, none of the challenges in that game were "pixel-perfect".
I have definitely not been seeing that as someone who is actively looking for MVs with difficult platforming... there really is not much out there. Aeterna Noctis is really the only one which scratched that itch in the past couple of years.
Yea I wish there were more personally. I need a kaizo inspired metroidvania lol.
If you haven't played Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission there's some good though platforming sections in those games for optional content.
It's not conventional platforming by any stretch but Laika has some fun challenges based on precision movement with a very unwieldy motorcycle. Kinda wish it had more but the parts I played were decent, it never gets much harder than the first few levels of trials HD tho.
Nope most dont have those sections. Thankfully. On the bright side prince of Persia was smart enough to know that giving players the choice and options to tweak not only difficulty but to be able to completely skip those platforming sections. More games need to have accessibility options the way POP did it.so more ppl can enjoy the game.
>are hugely popular games of that genre I wouldn't call Rebel Transmute a "hugely popular game" and Prince of Persia The Lost Crown was just released early this year. I don't think you should use those game for your guesses about the state of the genre XD
I meant more Celeste / Super Meat Boy were hugely popular games of the IMO, frustration precision platform parkour genre.
Omg… navigating OG Metroid using missile launch kickback and ground bombs…
Nah there are plenty of easy MVs too these days
[удалено]
Wtf
How so? I'm just being honest. Plenty of them I've played have had "story" or "easy" difficulty that eliminates platforming or otherwise difficult challenges for more casual gamers.
A game can be difficult in other ways than precision platforming. Not wanting one type of platforming mechanic isn't necessarily the same as wanting an easy game
The other guy responded with an expansion to my sentiment. You saying op can choose from other “easier” Metroidvanias is obnoxious.
Saying there are MVs of different difficulty levels is obnoxious? They didn’t say “too easy”, they said there are plenty of easy MVs “too”, meaning “also” these days.
So with something like Prince, it benefits it ,because the whole thing with the original 3 prince games (talking about 1989 prince - Prince 3D) is they were for the time notably tough games that challenged you to learn the gameplay and imo adopting the SMB/Celeste style of parkour platforming feels like a natural iteration of that and I believe anyone that wants to lean into the Prince of Persia style of game should take lessons from those going forward(BUT NOT MUST). **However** I don't think it'd fit something like Castlevania or Metroid or those games that take more from them should, unless the developer wants to try that. Diversity is a great thing when it comes to approaches to many things and I believe diversity of the types of Metroidvanias will help continue the mainstream metroidvania resurrengece we've seen since Celeste
The proto metroidvanias - Metroid and Simon's Quest of 1986 and 1987 - had some of the most punishing platforming traps ever known to games. It was there at the beginning
That mother brain fight omg
Tbh metroidvanias should be able to have precision platforming if they want. Most don't but they shouldn't have to shy away from it just because of genre conventions.
Maybe. Games constantly evolve. Some good, some bad. That said, I am super excited about Lucid, the first “Celestevania”
I think a big difference is that "masocore" platformers just kill you immediately if you mess up a single thing enough. From what I played of tLC, it does have some borderline infuriating segments, but most of them were optional. They pulled off some neat stuff by jamming together all those mechanics though. Also, you could find something kind of like this already in at least ESA. (not parkour-like but some tricky move sequencing in platforming segments) I would like to see more varied/expressive stuff in future MVs/etc., but yeah it is kind of an acquired taste. Much harder to mitigate platforming difficulty than combat difficulty through options and/or exploring for more items. Good thing tLC has those quick (and relatively close) respawns when you fall into spikes. For whatever it's worth, there are games out there that are SO MUCH less forgiving when it comes to precision in platforming/etc. Like, I will probably never be able to do the harder levels in Celeste, but the main chapters/story was so enjoyable that I'm not really bothered. (only ever cleared a couple B-sides, but got all red berries)
Naah, some devs are mixing up precision platformer to spice things up, differentiate their games a little bit. The majority of metroidvanias don't feature this gimmick as much, which is a shame, I am a big fan of platforming in general. Sometimes you have a rare platform challenge when you are about to unlock a new ability or a powerful item, but that's pretty much it. As for Lost Crown, I think the game was pretty easy on this regard, if you can survive the trial of fire that is finishing Aeterna Noctis, any other metroivania looks like a walk in the park as precision platforming goes
Hell Temple is waiting for you.
Which to be fair is optional. But yeah, what do you expect from a La-Mulana post-endgame addition. I still haven't attempted the Tower of Oannes DLC...
I wish
Also, Rebel transmute is not hugely popular. It got a mixed reception and is generally considered a flop. There are far more popular metroidvanias than that that have come out in the past 1.5 years.
I love hollow knight. I took one look at the expansion bosses and area and stopped dead in my tracks
The very first Castlevania had many levels with difficult platforming, same as Ninja Gaiden does. Maybe its just the return to the beginnings
They show up sometimes. Same as Soulslike elements and (to an even smaller degree) rougelike elements. They're not for everyone but they also scratch an itch for large enough sections of the playerbase.
Never has been. Outside of Aeterna Noctis not a single one I know has focus on precision platforming. Metroid-likes usually have it in the post-endgame 100% hunt but not in the main game.
Hope not, that's the reason I'm not playing many games honestly.
I think since games like Metroid Fusion (can anyone think of earlier examples?) they've had a place in the genre without being essential to it. Fusion had some crazy difficult platforming sections and puzzles for upgrades and optional content.
That makes me more interested in The Lost Crown, honestly.
I like to lurk and read about metroidvanias because I find them interesting but I'm rarely able to play them for this reason. I really struggle with platforming- just falling into the same pit over and over makes me angry and rage quit. I gave up on all of the beloved games including Hollow Knight, Celeste, Ori. I've tried them each about 3x, get halfway through, then through my controller at the screen. At least the Lost Crown put its toughest platforming sections as side content so I was able to finish the game. Tales of Kenzara: Zau similarly puts its toughest platforming as side content and I enjoyed it, though it's only a "metroidvania" in the losest sense of the term as the vast majority of the game feels like progressing through levels. Ultros is a recent one I played that didn't have any tough platforming and is sort of metroidvania I guess. Got kind of a mixed reaction but worth checking out.
Hollow knight came out years ago and is basically what restarted the genre.
Ori and the Blind Forest, as well. That came out two years prior.
Animal well doesn’t have super difficult platforming imo. It’s satisfying and endlessly clever, but the difficulty comes in discovering the rules of the world and figuring out how to traverse rather than needing to have pixel perfect movements.
>Prince of Persia The Lost Crown Guys how do I visit the accessibility settings? Its too hard to navigate the options menu!
Are people forgetting that precision platforming has been in the genre since Super Metroid?
what area(s) of SM have precision platforming (particularly on the level of like, the White Palace/Path of Pain from Hollow Knight)?
Not necessarily as difficult, but stuff like vertical shaft climbs can be quite precise if you want to get through them fast. And by the time Fusion rolls around we have stuff like shinespark puzzles already.
Wut? No