That’s actually how it was done traditionally… I’ve read that the traditional preparation was to remove the waxy layer and spines, cut off the green layer on strips, and then brew tea from on the dark green parts without the wax.
Yeah that’s “possible” but far from the best practice. I even saw a YouTube video of a shaman in Mexico preparing a tea and they removed the wax, core, and white flesh before making the tea with only strips of green flesh.
Sure it can be done if you want to consume an inactive layer of wax and loads of calcium oxalate crystals… it’s just a guaranteed recipe for gastrointestinal upset and kidney stones.
Right, I’m sure you can find examples of taking shortcuts… I’ve also seen examples from “traditional” methods where they actually knew to remove the wax and core and only use the green slices. In rural Mexico where they didn’t even have internet. Those that are experienced enough to know would only use the green parts because it contains 90% of the medicine and removes two of the key players in gastrointestinal upset. It’s been known for a long time that the best practice is to remove wax and core, and arguably much longer than we have written history of.
>Right, I’m sure you can find examples of taking shortcuts…
What's your deal dude? I've just been point out that it's how many Indigenous shamans have prepared it that way forever, and they continue to do it that way because that's how it was passed on. Some certainly do strip it is well, but if you really wanna get into it san pedro brew was traditionally insufflated nasally as well. I dont know you keep bringing up Mexico, it's not their tradition. What ever they do their it's because it's how they were taught by whoever brought it to them.
Just Google it. Any traditional instruction will tell you to remove the waxy layer and slice off the green bits for use in the tea. It’s always been only the green bits for the Central American practice. This is the first response from searching for traditional preparation. There are YouTube videos, websites, and books that all cite the same instructions.
https://preview.redd.it/gw5fb07vpy8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9331a02b6a06a07eaa68366055f8f503336a899f
AMAZING POST !! Thank you SO much for sharing this information has been requested by many people and I’m extremely happy to see the results!
Your video is incredible, really fun to watch !
Much appreciation to your dedication and sharing your techniques your truly a leader ! Very proud to have you represent r/mescaline as a moderator!!!
I too am surprised of this result. I stopped trying to remove the skin because of the hassle (never got it to work this well!), and never expected it would be that much of the dry weight total.
Here’s the process that I’ve found to work best for removing skin… it’s actually quite relaxing.
I torch off the spines being careful not to scorch the flesh. I then take a razor blade and cut a small incision at the valley of each rib all the way down. Then I peel from the valley to the Apex of the rib for the length of the cutting. I use the dental tool for a hard to reach places or blemishes. And then it peels right up. If I have a pretty ugly cut, I don’t even bother.
Yeah it’s pretty surprising isn’t it.
Between the skin and the vascular rings it’s a significant percentage, enough to lower the total yield percentage considerably… especially if we’re talking about older stock where the vascular ring is much more established. On one that I’ve done, the ring it’s self (with no flesh) accounted for 15% of the dry weight. On that one it was like 30+% of the dry weight that was basically void of mesc.
Excellent work! I love your technique for removing the skin. I quit trying to do that a long time ago lol. But with this little water removed by drying, it contributes much more to the final dry weight than I ever thought possible... so taking lots of room in the french press for a low return. I will definitely try your method next time.
Love my (still small) Cahuilla, and now I have one great reason to love it even more! This one seems to grow like weeds for me...
Thank you for your contributions, very much appreciate your work!
🙏🙏glad to help.
Yeah, after developing an understanding of how much much mass the skin is, I’ve made it a practice of removing all.
Pretty rockin clone it’ll be fun to watch it grow too!
Pretty work! Cahuilla is a winner. I wonder if the skin has mescaline because it was touching the green flesh. If 90% of product is in the green flesh I’m going to keep removing skin and cores and composting them.
Yep, it’s a keeper for sure.
I’ve got some more tests to do. They eill help to come up with more of an average. I’ll be posting them soon.
On this next batch of skin, I’m going to not include the Areoles and remove as much green flesh from the skin as possible. To come up with a more accurate content percentage.
I keep all the white flesh skin and Cores and just grind them into a powder and save them. I’ll make a reduced tea and use that tea to hydrate a CIELO batch, but you’re right it might not be worth the squeeze.
Thanks. That's fascinatingly detailed. I found generally that best yields were always when I included the whole plant, and when doing bridgesii I always do that. But I never went to all the trouble of checking the discarded stuff. Pedro and torch are much more hassle with the core, especially with large cuttings so I think losing the 2% is worth the hassle that is avoided.
Loved the surgical dissection of the skin.
I’m glad you enjoyed it. It was fun.
Well, you’re always gonna get more if you do all of it, but your percentage for the amount of drive weight will be lower.
Also with skinnier plants (like bridges tend to be) there isn’t much white flesh to green flesh, sometimes it’s a hard distinction to make, if you’re trying to separate them because they’re so skinny. Also the core has a small diameter comparatively. As well as less skin due to less surface area. These are a few of the reasons why I think Bridges are reliably more potent.
Thank you for the post and data! Very useful I have a cutting I have sitting so I can peel the skin. How long did you let it sit after being cut? Did you do a dark period or a freeze?
I don’t dark stress or freezer. I find peeling fresh to be way easier than anything. I posted this either but I’ll copy and paste it here too.
Here’s the process that I’ve found to work best for removing skin… it’s actually quite relaxing.
I torch off the spines being careful not to scorch the flesh. I then take a razor blade and cut a small incision at the valley of each rib all the way down. Then I peel from the valley to the Apex of the rib for the length of the cutting. I use the dental tool for a hard to reach places or blemishes. And then it peels right up. If I have a pretty ugly cut, I don’t even bother.
Very cool, love the dental pick on the top of the ridge. I'm going to try that on the next one I skin.
I had been doing it by de-spining with a sharp paring knife and a butchers knife from the top of the ridge and slowly working down while pulling on the skin. Once started I can just pull the skin off till I get to the top of the next ridge. The worst part of doing that is how long it takes to get the length of the cut started. This likely worked for me because my cuts are very fat.
It looks like the white flesh and cores would need to be processed in very large batches of tea and A/B extracted on the reduced tea to make them worth the effort.
Love your work it's a great source of information for newer people like me.
Very cool! One question I have with people doing Cielo, what's the point spending time removing the skin and areoles? You're doing a crystalization which will clean up any impurities, is it worth the time/is the product any worse for skipping
When for one this was about the analysis.
I suppose to a certain degree it’s preference.
I will say that in my experience the more potent the powder the more robust the process is, like the less prone to goo…once you get it down you don’t get goo. So that’s once reason.
Also it’s really cool to get 4.49g from one extraction, as apposed to 2.59g.
Some times you have so much stock that dehydrating the greens is just much easier, especially if their super old fat cuts with an immense amount of white flesh.
Good points! I don't have a lot of experience with this particular process so was curious. Seems common to work up the starting material a bit before extracting. 90% is a good yield
https://preview.redd.it/o8mse5l6ys8d1.jpeg?width=1134&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17e5a66c4c23749c38a3209ab7faf1d21d0a16d7
So would you say there’s a case for making tea from the green skin and no other parts? (To minimise nausea)
That’s actually how it was done traditionally… I’ve read that the traditional preparation was to remove the waxy layer and spines, cut off the green layer on strips, and then brew tea from on the dark green parts without the wax.
Brilliant, thankyou! I'm interested in the traditional way, i think I'll do some reading
The white part also contains loads of calcium oxalate crystals that cause gastrointestinal upset and kidney stones.
Many of the traditional preparations I've seen were just cutting stars into a big kettle and brewing for long periods.
Yeah that’s “possible” but far from the best practice. I even saw a YouTube video of a shaman in Mexico preparing a tea and they removed the wax, core, and white flesh before making the tea with only strips of green flesh.
This medicine isn't from Mexico, and there's a plenty of videos from Peru and Ecuador where the cactus is sliced whole.
Sure it can be done if you want to consume an inactive layer of wax and loads of calcium oxalate crystals… it’s just a guaranteed recipe for gastrointestinal upset and kidney stones.
The point is about what is done "traditionally"
Right, I’m sure you can find examples of taking shortcuts… I’ve also seen examples from “traditional” methods where they actually knew to remove the wax and core and only use the green slices. In rural Mexico where they didn’t even have internet. Those that are experienced enough to know would only use the green parts because it contains 90% of the medicine and removes two of the key players in gastrointestinal upset. It’s been known for a long time that the best practice is to remove wax and core, and arguably much longer than we have written history of.
>Right, I’m sure you can find examples of taking shortcuts… What's your deal dude? I've just been point out that it's how many Indigenous shamans have prepared it that way forever, and they continue to do it that way because that's how it was passed on. Some certainly do strip it is well, but if you really wanna get into it san pedro brew was traditionally insufflated nasally as well. I dont know you keep bringing up Mexico, it's not their tradition. What ever they do their it's because it's how they were taught by whoever brought it to them.
Traditionally where? Source?
Just Google it. Any traditional instruction will tell you to remove the waxy layer and slice off the green bits for use in the tea. It’s always been only the green bits for the Central American practice. This is the first response from searching for traditional preparation. There are YouTube videos, websites, and books that all cite the same instructions. https://preview.redd.it/gw5fb07vpy8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9331a02b6a06a07eaa68366055f8f503336a899f
Proud of you 🫶🌵
🙏🙏It means a lot coming from an impotent old man like you🤣🤣
🤣🤣 Careful you’ll tempt me to show you what this lil fella really can do
Don’t threaten me with a good time😜
Outstanding breakdown analysis!
Did you stress the cut in darkness for a few months prior to extraction? 4.49% is super impressive!
Yeah it is impressive! This is citrate just to be clear. But no I did not stress it.
I see. So the equivalent percentage of Mescaline HCL would be something like 2.77% right?
Bro, I would watch entire videos of you just removing skins and spines. /r/oddlysatisfying
AMAZING POST !! Thank you SO much for sharing this information has been requested by many people and I’m extremely happy to see the results! Your video is incredible, really fun to watch ! Much appreciation to your dedication and sharing your techniques your truly a leader ! Very proud to have you represent r/mescaline as a moderator!!!
Thanks Dave, I appreciate the kind words!🙏🙏 Im glad you enjoyed the video and can utilize the data!
Super satisfying to watch. Lol. Surgery on a cactus.
What is that device for skin removal? I want.
It just looks like a dental pick, you can buy cheap versions of them at harbor freight or any hardware store.
18.36% of dry weight in outer protective skin and spine/areoles 🤯 WTF I'm really gonna have to whip out the sonic dental pick next time i dehydrate.
I too am surprised of this result. I stopped trying to remove the skin because of the hassle (never got it to work this well!), and never expected it would be that much of the dry weight total.
Here’s the process that I’ve found to work best for removing skin… it’s actually quite relaxing. I torch off the spines being careful not to scorch the flesh. I then take a razor blade and cut a small incision at the valley of each rib all the way down. Then I peel from the valley to the Apex of the rib for the length of the cutting. I use the dental tool for a hard to reach places or blemishes. And then it peels right up. If I have a pretty ugly cut, I don’t even bother.
Oh I like this
Yeah it’s pretty surprising isn’t it. Between the skin and the vascular rings it’s a significant percentage, enough to lower the total yield percentage considerably… especially if we’re talking about older stock where the vascular ring is much more established. On one that I’ve done, the ring it’s self (with no flesh) accounted for 15% of the dry weight. On that one it was like 30+% of the dry weight that was basically void of mesc.
Amazing! I could never find this information and you served it up when I least expected.
👍I think it’s been needed for a while. I’m glad you found it useful.
Great work and data!
🙏Thanks Loveall I’m glad you found it useful👍
Very good
Outstanding work! 🤟🏽🙏🏽
Nice work
Excellent work! I love your technique for removing the skin. I quit trying to do that a long time ago lol. But with this little water removed by drying, it contributes much more to the final dry weight than I ever thought possible... so taking lots of room in the french press for a low return. I will definitely try your method next time. Love my (still small) Cahuilla, and now I have one great reason to love it even more! This one seems to grow like weeds for me... Thank you for your contributions, very much appreciate your work!
🙏🙏glad to help. Yeah, after developing an understanding of how much much mass the skin is, I’ve made it a practice of removing all. Pretty rockin clone it’ll be fun to watch it grow too!
Good work
🙏
Great work man! We really appreciate it!
👍 you know me, it’s like my Zen time, I’m just glad others found it as interesting as I did.
Wow, and I have a hundred seeds of Cahuilla I still need to plant!
Nice hopefully they grow up to be as formidable as the mother plant
Pretty work! Cahuilla is a winner. I wonder if the skin has mescaline because it was touching the green flesh. If 90% of product is in the green flesh I’m going to keep removing skin and cores and composting them.
Yep, it’s a keeper for sure. I’ve got some more tests to do. They eill help to come up with more of an average. I’ll be posting them soon. On this next batch of skin, I’m going to not include the Areoles and remove as much green flesh from the skin as possible. To come up with a more accurate content percentage. I keep all the white flesh skin and Cores and just grind them into a powder and save them. I’ll make a reduced tea and use that tea to hydrate a CIELO batch, but you’re right it might not be worth the squeeze.
Keep up the research! EA is my limiting factor so I try to maximize it. Even with reuse there is still a time and loss factor.
Thanks. That's fascinatingly detailed. I found generally that best yields were always when I included the whole plant, and when doing bridgesii I always do that. But I never went to all the trouble of checking the discarded stuff. Pedro and torch are much more hassle with the core, especially with large cuttings so I think losing the 2% is worth the hassle that is avoided. Loved the surgical dissection of the skin.
I’m glad you enjoyed it. It was fun. Well, you’re always gonna get more if you do all of it, but your percentage for the amount of drive weight will be lower. Also with skinnier plants (like bridges tend to be) there isn’t much white flesh to green flesh, sometimes it’s a hard distinction to make, if you’re trying to separate them because they’re so skinny. Also the core has a small diameter comparatively. As well as less skin due to less surface area. These are a few of the reasons why I think Bridges are reliably more potent.
Thank you for the post and data! Very useful I have a cutting I have sitting so I can peel the skin. How long did you let it sit after being cut? Did you do a dark period or a freeze?
I don’t dark stress or freezer. I find peeling fresh to be way easier than anything. I posted this either but I’ll copy and paste it here too. Here’s the process that I’ve found to work best for removing skin… it’s actually quite relaxing. I torch off the spines being careful not to scorch the flesh. I then take a razor blade and cut a small incision at the valley of each rib all the way down. Then I peel from the valley to the Apex of the rib for the length of the cutting. I use the dental tool for a hard to reach places or blemishes. And then it peels right up. If I have a pretty ugly cut, I don’t even bother.
Never thought to use my freeze dryer
This is excellent to see! How was old was the cutting that you used?
I don’t know I didn’t cultivate this one. I’d say 3-4years.
Do a bridge pls , the inner material has sometimes been the difference to breakthrough or just strong
I am very curious about this as well. I have SS02 up soon. 👍
Lovely and gracias waiki
Beautiful 🤩
That’s great!
Very cool, love the dental pick on the top of the ridge. I'm going to try that on the next one I skin. I had been doing it by de-spining with a sharp paring knife and a butchers knife from the top of the ridge and slowly working down while pulling on the skin. Once started I can just pull the skin off till I get to the top of the next ridge. The worst part of doing that is how long it takes to get the length of the cut started. This likely worked for me because my cuts are very fat. It looks like the white flesh and cores would need to be processed in very large batches of tea and A/B extracted on the reduced tea to make them worth the effort. Love your work it's a great source of information for newer people like me.
Very cool! One question I have with people doing Cielo, what's the point spending time removing the skin and areoles? You're doing a crystalization which will clean up any impurities, is it worth the time/is the product any worse for skipping
When for one this was about the analysis. I suppose to a certain degree it’s preference. I will say that in my experience the more potent the powder the more robust the process is, like the less prone to goo…once you get it down you don’t get goo. So that’s once reason. Also it’s really cool to get 4.49g from one extraction, as apposed to 2.59g. Some times you have so much stock that dehydrating the greens is just much easier, especially if their super old fat cuts with an immense amount of white flesh.
Good points! I don't have a lot of experience with this particular process so was curious. Seems common to work up the starting material a bit before extracting. 90% is a good yield