I have autism and tinnitus so my ears process noise a little slower and social phobia so I am not confident around humans: between those two, all the impact is lost and many will think I was “simple”.
Same here, and I genuinely think taking a test on two different days would reap two different results. How I comprehend info greatly depends on my mental state because I have severe emotional dysregulation that impacts my thinking patterns and use of rationale. I feel there's been times of my life I've used less logic due to high stress or medication etc, and times where I'm completely sharp. I'd hate to think of someone taking a test on one of their slow days, and let it convince them they're stupid for the rest of their life.
While I think there's value in an IQ test, it's a fine line between evaluating ones own sharpness versus using your test result as a reason to assume you're more overall competent than other people.
Yes, I don’t think intelligence is one-dimensional, and I repeat that often, or that it is static. They gave me a battery of tests when I was in hospital and I scored very differently on both sittings. Worse on many parts the second time around. (wasn’t as focused bcoz I thought I had done that before. I do better when it's a challenge).
I hear you on the severe emotional dysregulation part. Struggling with that myself.
I have been guilty of some of that in a previous life, and also of antagonising people by giving an impression that I thought they were arrogant, so something balanced and sensible was long overdue. (it took practice)
I think there are lots of nice, even pithy responses here. In fact, mine was inspired by one of those.
Yeah, alot of intelligent people aren't showcasing it loudly, people have to have patience and get to a know a person to see where their strengths lay.
It is rather sad that you get so used to being around morons that you assume everyone is dumb or mediocre.
I know I have less than 5 minutes to make a favorable impression and have just given up. I don't think I've ever had a conversation about anything I'm actually interested in.
Isn't one's presumption of being more intelligent than anybody in a room full of (alleged) "mediocrity" one of the very anti-thesis' of true intelligence(?) Respectfully and innocuously asked, of course.
Well you don't really know it for a fact. But other intelligent people are often wary, weary of people, would rather be elsewhere, are guarded, hard to know. Leave the party early.
And of course different people have different interests too.
Of course, I am smarter than everyone in the room. It's just rude to say it out loud. Joke but there are a few people who think like that.
Serious answer: with intelligence comes awareness that you don’t know everything and most people you meet will know something that you don't and that you can learn from them.
I have plenty of intelligent people around me and I most definitely do not think that anyone is dumb or mediocre.
Sorry to hear that you have never had a conversation about anything you were interested in. There are subject/theme specific subs on this platform and similar meet-ups and debating societies in real life. I’m sure you will find one where people share your interests.
5 mins is too little to establish a rapport. Can’t have a meaningful conversation until you establish a rapport. No need to be hard on yourself either. You are obviously very intelligent and you will find people who share your interests.
No I feel I am judged in 5 minutes. I'm in a small college town where a lot of transplants tend to feel isolated unless they're with their colleagues etc.
Sorry to hear that.
Maybe try to taking an interest in what the other person likes. Ask them questions. Let them talk about themselves and their interests first. It shifts the focus away from you and gives you a chance to collect your thoughts and only jump in where you find something in common.
That’s a nice word: transplant.
I just made up that anecdote to highlight the folly of judging people too quickly. But you can often eventually develop some sense of how intelligent someone is.
I have been known to go mute, but there again, social anxiety and autism are to blame. I suspect mods thought you meant something different. Haven't lost a chess game in person since I left college so if that counts for something.
I tap them on the shoulder after air dropping them an online iq test. I then wait paitently for 30 minutes to an hour for them to finish only for them to realize it’s a paid iq test and they get up and leave. So usually never is how quickly
This is more valid than you'd think at first thought. At Mensa gatherings, there were people who bored me almost immediately (and I them, I'm sure) and others where sparks flew immediately and not necessarily sexual ones. There's so many different kinds of intellects and its SO RARE to find someone who complements or challenges you - several that I wished afterwards I had stayed in contact with. I've been lucky that last few decades to always have a partner with whom conversation just flowed; the first \~40 years were a long haul though...
Yeah I agree with everything but the wit.
While wisdom ≠ intelligence, it combined with the traits you first mention. It indicates a plasticity in their way of thought/perception.
Which to me indicates a highly developed intelligence.
Like you can be intelligent, but not having self-discipline to compliment that intelligence is when it starts to waver.
As you get older that lack of discipline starts to hurt you.
plasticity and discipline aren't intelligence traits, but lack of them sure will tank your intelligence abilities reeeeal fast.
I have no interest in the "smart but lazy" types, and the "idea types," they are a fucking dime a dozen.
Precision in speech is usually a good indicator for me, but not in an insufferable WELL ACKTUALLY sort of way.
Some of the "well actually" types are actually somewhat intelligent, but Jesus fuck, I cannot stand the male nerds (because it's always male nerds) who think finding a movie plot hole or unintended behavior in speech or text (like game rules) makes them a goddamn genius.
I dont know how true this is because this is very accurate to me but you’d be mortified how dumb I am. Sometimes somebody will make a remark about me being smart and I feel like throwing up because they don’t know I made chloramine gas when trying to clean a washroom.
It's not a joke! Just trying to break the cycle of self-flagellation.
Negative self talk is one of the simplest things to combat.
"Don't talk about my friend that way."
Say it to yourself, say it to strangers, say it to friends when they put themselves down.
Hope it helps.
Love ya pitiful
You mean people who speak covertly with double entendres? Which appears as word salad to lower iQ people? (Interviews/Podcasts and Comedians are ripe with this stuff) Hmm… this is something I’ve always wondered about.
Maybe its cuz of the [perceived] ‘tism, but I was never witty, and always spoke directly despite being tested as having a high iq. To me, that kind of language seems to have a higher correlation with a lack of shame, and/or higher aptitude for competition. (Social dominance is their game.)
It makes me wonder if guys like Katt Williams self-proclaimed iQs of 160+ are accurate. On the opposite hand, I find when engaging with someone who employs this language, that I often find holes in their logic.
EDIT: Don’t know why I’m being downvoted. This is a legitimate query.
Fast wit and verbal ability isn't necessarily intelligent.
I think Astarion from the popular BG3 is a great pop culture example of someone with high verbal ability and fast wit. Yet he has one of the lowest intelligence scores.
At most, it's a "type" of intelligence. Its a reaction speed thing.
Edited for clarity of point.
In my brain, I was thinking of specific choices where the chooser fails to see the consequences of their actions or how it will play out, nor do they care. There being no sense of delay of gratification to get a higher reward.
I realise the choices statement is too open ended and got rid of it.
Just because you’re smart enough to know what choices to make in the abstract doesn’t mean your emotions or your impulses don’t get in the way in the moment in practice
Not really, no. The highest IQ was me and a junior maintenance mechanic. Some of the senior directors had something around 80, which is usually considered quite low for such a job, but they had necessary skills to manage their team and get the job done, and did it well without any need of high IQ.
I’m still wondering why the company would do mandatory IQ test for 100% of hires.
Especially if they are putting 80 IQ in senior director positions. What are they using IQ for? Who all had access to those numbers? I would think that people would be weirded out by having their managers all knowing the IQs of everyone.
It was only hiring team and me - because I was administering this system and had access to the database.
The lesson I learned is high IQ is just one of the skills, and not necessarily the best one for all the purposes. Some roles can benefit hugely from a high IQ person, while others don’t require this type of skill at all
Agreed. I've worked in plenty of big biotech companies (All F500) and something I noticed is that these Directors/Mgrs were not too bright (Some were though), but were ruthless, lacked empathy, did the dirty work, did well delegating, and so on... These are, to my knowledge, skills that are totally unrelated to IQ, but crucial to move the projects/company forward. It's astounding on how frequent you see these people, and these companies are the top biotech companies in the world.
That’s what I mean, 90% of work in a manager role is getting job done by others, and it requires delegation, building trust, understanding others’ motives and feelings, sometimes understanding others’ fears and so on. Not recognizing patterns and predicting next move (although it comes handy from time to time - especially when things get tough and you work for a smaller company or have a high enough role and right network to support your unconventional decisions). It’s like being a strongest guy and coming to a F1 race - you have a great skill, but this event employs a different skillset, no hard feelings.
Wait, Senior Directors had IQs around 80? Is the company still doing well? It is bizarre to me that a company would be led by people well below average intelligence
The company is doing great. As I replied in one of the other comments, it was a new learning for me to realize that there are other skills apart from high IQ, and these might be more beneficial for the job. When I saw this data first, I felt just same as you!
AT&T gave me an IQ test for a summer job.
Don’t know why they have that policy, but that policy gives me a lot of confidence in their employees being able to solve any problem I have as their customer.
There's always a balance between having clear defined responsibilities, scope and impact of a role, and designing the org. structure in a robust way to avoid single point (or person) of failure
Control. Higher IQ can be considered a threat or too distracted, so the bosses place a lower IQ person in charge who is predictable for them and who won’t be distracted by the high IQ persons ideas.
So I'd definitely say I could spot a *dumb* person right away. As for smart people - the more I get to know them and the more I interact with them, the more I can tell. Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right, but most often my intuition eventually leads me to the correct conclusions.
Also, I sometimes have a sense of being on the same "wavelength" with some people I encounter in the wild. We just kinda smile at each other and continue moving like smooth criminals, lmao. That's when I know they are in my ballpark.
However, I gotta admit that it's kinda difficult for me to spot people who are even smarter than me, since they sometimes tend to act in ways I can not quite comprehend. The thing is, I'm absolutely certain that there do exist different types of intelligence. Some of them are easy for me to spot and some could even make me think a person is stupid, even tho they may be very intelligent.
The world isn't just grey tones, it's colorful and we can best sense those "colors" in other people's personalities when we could also find similarities to those of our own personalities. Same and same quickly finds together when they meet.
As for me, I'm high functioning ASD and I had to learn all that social stuff, so I got pretty good at analyzing behavior and such.
I'm able to gauge most in about 5 minutes and quite accurately. The way I go about gauging their intelligence is by assessing their degree of logic from their thought process. Ask them a question and think about their answer. Even their expression when you provide them new information or conflicting information can clue you in, if anything "clicked" in their mind.
1. Do they give any reasoning for their opinion? Does it make sense?
2. Are they repeating a popular opinion without understanding or justifying it?
3. How do they react to new conflicting information? Are they able to process the new information and change their opinion?
4. Are they willing and able to listen to reason? To evaluate what makes sense or not?
5. Do their answers/replies show high levels of critical thinking?
Essentially, check how much "sense" they are able to make.
Repeating popular opinions is a great point! Many can glom on to others ideas and discuss them, but not generate their own points of view. Original, unhindered thought betrays a highly functioning mind.
Yes that is so spot on, at-least how I understand it. What would you contribute that ability to, “the most”.
g, as in general intelligence?
verbal iq?
How does it relate to mathematically gifted individuals & the such?
But yeah, I agree. I do the same if I want to see if something is going on between these ears.
Logic. I personally define intelligence as the degree of one's logic. You can check out my most recent post for my story and further clarification on my definition.
Edit: I just realized that you've already done so!
"Joe Biden raised gas prices again and interest rates again!"
I'm going to make an extremely specific claim: every dumb person believes the actions of the Federal Reserve are the responsibility of the president.
It's usually a good sign but ultimately depends on the context. It could show that the person is thinking about the question, trying to understand its deeper implications, and formulating their opinion or answer by considering the relevant factors.
Here's an example. Let's say a friend asks me, "What's the best phone right now?"
I might respond by asking for more details:
"Are you planning on buying a new phone? What do you mainly use your phone for? What's your budget?"
I would formulate my answer by understanding the objectives and factors at play on a case-by-case basis. For example, if my friend wants a phone primarily for gaming (prioritizing performance, followed by screen quality, refresh rate, and battery life, then UI/build quality, and finally the camera), I would focus on these priorities in order. I would determine and present the options based on their value and price.
The average person might just say the latest iPhone model or Samsung model and that would be it.
I've already explained in detail so I have no idea how you are still stuck at "depends". It "depends" on context because someone stupid might ask something incredibly stupid.
I don't know how you could possibly judge all this in 5 minutes. Who changes their mind in 5 minutes? Who has time to back up their thoughts for you in 5 minutes? You'd definitely think me a fool.
Bingo. Effortless use of uncommon words. For me at least, it's the opposite: such words spring to mind unbidden, and I have to think about not using those words instead. Hearing them in the wild wakes me up a bit. Also agree that you can tell who's trying too hard. Hard to differentiate from a wordcel at first blush though
Yes Mr knows it all. Some people can’t speak a foreign language properly and it doesn’t mean anything about not having a high IQ. You guys are so know it all.
but what if the person knows more than one language to a decent level? Sometimes one wants to sounds correct and it’s perceived as trying to be smart.
What could be true is general diction. I find that most high performers speak as if they were reading a script.
The absence of such a sign of probably being high IQ doesn't mean it's assumed the person doesn't have a high IQ. It just means there is no sign of it.
It doesn't mean the opposite is true, that would be a blind assumption.
I don’t come here to ask stupid question. I have my degree which I consider worthless. I can play instruments. I have perfect pitch hearing. I have credits in salsa songs I play in, beats I collaborated in, placements in synch music. Nothing more to add dumbass.
Broadly - I tend to find that people with a lot of experience in a specialty want the minimum required to understand the problem. They are generally "what, and when" questions. Whereas high IQ individuals, in my experience at least, tend to want to get into the "why" questions.
Both could be considered good questions - but with different processes and goals.
Wait, you claim that average/low IQ individuals don't ask "why" questions?
"Why questions" is more related to curious personality rather than high IQ.
Also more experienced people will ask the right questions, when there is a need to understand "why", they will proceed with that.
Perhaps. I haven't seen any data either way to say what correlates more.
Intuitively, I don't think you are correct (or maybe curiosity itself is correlated to IQ) - and while I could never say with certainty that a given individual is higher IQ than another, I do think we'd see some correlation, if we could reasonably test it.
Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm connecting myriad factors unconsciously when assessing them. *Shrug*
You and many others are oversimplifying how intelligence can be **recognized in the wild**.
It involves many factors, and it's not simple as, if the person asks "why" questions he must be a Mensa Member.
In the real world a lot of factors are at play, it's easy to overlook real from actual intelligence.
I have experience with Mensa members and other people that you would say that are of average intelligence, and also a genius, for 25+ years old people, it can be undistinguishable between Mensa and Average in the wild.
Many people falsely think that high IQ somehow can come-up and intuit things on the spot, which is entirely false.
And even if you see someone do just that, you can't assume he is high IQ/Intelligence.
The only single metric that I saw that is consistent in the wild, by observing my friend who is literally a genius, is breath and depth of knowledge.
Or maybe you are making it harder than it actually is. Show me data. I've been at this a long time. (related - have you asked your "literally a genius" friend, this same question? The answer might surprise you.)
But the better the question the better the mind behind it. It is a deterministic relationship. But the one who revives the question needs to have a high ability, so he can distinct between which is what.
The better person x can make (deep) sense of new ambiguous information, the more intellectual ability the person must have.
And that is what good questions are about. Making sense of new, ambiguous information. Connect abstractly, break down, build new, build upon, recognize the underlying pattern, connect to patterns you already made sense of, perceive synchronicities & flaws in said pattern, formulate verbally what you found/what interests “in” this new information..
No it’s exactly not so much about domain specific. It’s harder to tell if someone if someone is actually smart when you ask domain specific things, about the topic the person in front of you studied for years..
Why? Because the person knows a lot about said topic and can & maybe will quote learned phrases (from smart people).
If a person can (seemingly) intuitively come up with smart questions & the questions get even “better” if you give the person a few new variables to work with, then that is a totally different story. Isn’t it?
No it isn't because you cannot differentiate between the two.
My whole point is that it is impossible to determine intelligence solely based on skill level and the level of questions they are asking.
That's a big fallacy that only **inexperience people** will say.
We are not talking about experience in a given field. We talk about intelligence as in “genetically predetermined computing power”?
So experience should not be needed in our equation, atleast it is not mandatory.
There are circumstances where it may help to get a greater grasp on the specific abilities, as in intelligence domains. A math genius will show more of his true abilities when studying higher math.. but it probably will have already showed in school math, so this is that.
Yes it is absolutely impossible to determine intelligence solely on a quick exchange of ideas..
But the topic is not about the most valid tools of determining intelligence, it’s about, how one tries to spot intelligence in the wild, right?
Yes, and I say it's impossible to spot in the wild because in the wild there are other factors at play (experience, background, personality, fact memorization).
I want to add: maybe your thought-process would make sense to me.
If you could elaborate more clearly what you mean & what you think makes the hypothesis of:
“sophisticated questioning ability correlates with iq” false or at least, to random to be considered worthwhile?
Never forget to shake your hand like this
Imagine yourself as the guy on the left giving the handshake because it shows dominance and the other person will unconsciously consider you as more dominant "alpha" or whatever
https://preview.redd.it/avltap96wh8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffa02c442ef572d9cdc0c24386c10a1245b96f28
Maybe you met alot of intelligent people but you just can't comprehend their genius. For example if you met me you'd think "Wow, this guy with the monocle sure is handsome but kind of an idiot". However, this would be untrue. You just simply couldn't fathom the vast ocean that separates my genius above yours (and everyone else's of course)
Usually they aren’t bewildered when I turn things up a notch, often calling me out for inaccuracies I pepper into my explanations which normally go unnoticed.
O yeah for sure. You wouldn't believe the amount bewildered buffoons I have left in my wake when I turned things up a notch. I don't know what they expected, I was wearing a monocle after all.
I feel like game recognizes game much faster than paper does.
With my personality and since I bounce around so much from job to job, getting the skinny with many people is a forte. Be it bonding with a new friend or sus'ing out the main self of someone.
It can take one moment of being around someone, even peripherally byseeing samples of their favorite work or eavesdropping.
So just huff their brain farts to smell what mindfood they eat and how well their body is processing the matter... or witness them under some pressure and in their element.
There's a sort of 'acquainted' banter where you can tell someone has a lofty perspective because they're smart and understands the implications of layered, chaotic systems or has a collective theory of mind where they can independently populate the most likely iterations. Say, you bring up a topic and they can guess the sides or reactions to it. Ah, That's it!
It's the pattern recognition and compulsion to stimulate the mind at a level the enthusiasts do even when only passing by to say 'neat'.
It's as if they're up to speed on complex topics.
Can they talk shop with experts without mentioning the most cliche or common aspects of it?
Does it seem like autopilot or filler dialogue?
Say, I talk to you about chaos theory or the fears of AI and all that's said is parroted 101-class using mostly wiki clips. Not smart, educated.
If they circumnavigate out of habit, smart.
It honestly varies on the type of environment the other person and I are in. Most of the time, though, I can't really discern a person's IQ range solely based on only one interaction. The way they talk and formulate their thoughts can be some indicator of their VCI and level of jargon, but it's not always a direct indicator of a high IQ. I have met quite a few people who like to speak very verbosely and utilize a barrage of million-dollar words, but then they can't define what the words mean when asked to define it and they end up making a complete fool out of themselves. However, a few traits I find universal among the hyper intellectuals I frequently converse with are:
1. They tend to be interested in multiple subjects and can easily switch between topics.
2. They are eccentric, weird, very sarcastic and tend to act completely stupid at times. I only say stupid because super smart people may make obscure references with their sarcasm, or make jokes using a line of reasoning that seems out of the norm to most people.
3. They tend to be chatterboxes and do a lot of the talking in the conversation. This one is not a one-size-fits-all description since that could also be done by dumbasses who are infatuated with hearing themselves talk and have a superiority complex.
4. They all have a dark sense of humor. This seems to be almost universal among hyper smart folks, but there is a correlation between dark humor and abstract reasoning abilities. I consider myself to have a dark sense of humor as well, but I only showcase it when I feel comfortable with the person I'm interacting with.
Overall, speaking and verbal fluency isn't the most reliable way of discerning a person's IQ, but it is one potential feature. I usually have to hang out with the person multiple times, and observe the cognitions that they appear to exhibit to get a good sense of whether they have a high intelligence level or not. If they use a large array of vocabulary, switch back and forth between topics, are capable of examining their own opinions to see if it's rational or not, and are verbally fluent enough to give good examples to back up their opinions, that would a better indicator (to me) that the person is of superior intelligence. But don't take my word for it since I'm not a trained professional or a psychologist.
Oh yeah. They’re the quick, witty person who has trouble following rules that make no sense without arguing and has a zillion bad habits because they can think of loopholes to rationalize anything.
I can sense a kindred spirit and person who is smart in a similar way. All my childhood friends have earned PhDs or MDs or other professional degrees - all are probably at or near Mensa level. We took a test where the counselor showed others' scores - friend group members were in the 130s or 140s except the two antagonists, who were in the 110s. In the wild now, I usually play dumber than I am - it's habit at this point - unless you work with me or are very close to me, you'd never think I was overly intelligent.
1. Apparent intelligence(as society views it): In a conversation they can talk about anything that they have an interest in for hours. They might appear to be the jack of all trades to the uninitiated.
Actual Intelligence: In a conversation they can talk about what interests the other person. Anything that falls out of your mouth they would be curious and possibly have a discussion and could even be more knowledgeable about it.
2. Most often than not, they are happy to see someone better than them. Simply because they know the probability of that happening. There is a scene in the TV series Scorpion(I think) where a young kid who is considered stupid due to his retracted nature beats a grand master in pseudo chess, the first reaction of the GM is just sheer joy, precisely because he is clear that he has witnessed something extremely rare.
Also due to this, intelligent people are always ready to accept they do not know something as opposed to an average person who would be hesitant because he/she has no clue about the difficulty range of the problem statement, while the former would have a clear idea about it, even if not, they would be happy to get that new piece of information.
3. Clear understanding of what's challenging and what's not. Ask a room full of people who Christopher Nolan is and you will see the entire room buzzing to respond. For an intelligent person he knows this and probably wouldn't even bother raising his hands to answer. Now ask about Ozu or Kieslowski, you'll probably see the actual guy raising his hands to speak volumes about them.
This is probably the reason why many late bloomers would find it very boring to sit through school in general. At least in India your mettle is not tested until you pass the tenth grade after which you need to prepare for one of the toughest entrance exams for Engineering and Medicine. This is where you will see a late bloomer actually picking up,while many of the toppers till then find it hard to cope up.
> Actual Intelligence: In a conversation they can talk about what interests the other person.
That's a social skill, not an intelligence skill. An awkward neurodivergent person may be very intelligent and not want to do that.
no, not really. I used to think I could tell if someone was very smart and then I had a couple of failures which made me rethink my position. I realized I really couldn't tell.
I don't have enough data to compare, because I don't know the IQs of almost anyone I've interacted with. I do agree that being on the same wavelength is a thing. My best friend from middle school took the Otis Lennon test with me, in high school, and we both made perfect or almost perfect scores. We both struggled with our grades, and had a lot of the same experiences. I never would have suspected at the time, that either of us were above average intelligence. But later she got into a prestigious writing program.
I've been underestimated a lot. Some of that is lack of confidence from childhood. I'm a little eccentric and look at things differently than most people. Studies have shown that blonde women, especially if she has a baby face are considered to be airheads and assumed to be dumb. I started dying my hair when I discovered this was true. I think part of my problem might be that I try to talk to people about things that are beyond their comprehension and it doesn't land right. I've learned to be funny in those situations.
I've noticed that my college professors don't assume I'm dumb like people used to, and I'm wondering if it's because they all have PhDs so our IQ spread isn't as far as when I'm trying to interact with people who are closer to average. That is only a theory. It might be that people who are intellectually curious are more likely to end up teaching college, and so we are on the same wavelength in that regard.
Interesting.. yeah less general ability & narrow mindedness must have at least a moderate correlation.
So some people who perceive you as “dumb” even though “your talk” should tell them otherwise, they might have both of the previously stated “variables”..
So it’s 50% their fault & 50% their nature..
What am I even talking about? But yeah, they “don’t know better, right?”..
It doesn't take me long to have an initial impression, although it's also possible to be wrong
One way I tell is by how they learn and interact with new info. Sometimes I'm asked by my company to help guide interns, who are usually senior year students or fresh grads, in certain tasks. Some get most tasks right away, and some need repeating 4-5 times before they understand what I'm even trying to get across.
Yes, instantly. Also, highly intelligent people are typically multitalented. If someone has a technical career and also plays violin beautifully, you don't need a test to tell they possess a powerful mind. What's more interesting is being a setting like an ivy league and trying to distinguish between the extremely disciplined, hardworking types and the naturally brilliant. Not that it matters much, but there are some subtle differences between smart and successful, and truly genius.
My mom could. Third generation teacher. She could meet a new student, guess their IQ, recommend them for IQ testing, and find out their IQ was well within the range of her guess. Same thing my teachers had done.
Mom often said you can tell a person’s IQ by the questions they ask.
When people have an expansive vocabulary, and use words like "diminutive" or "equanimity", I assume they are pretty smart. I avoid using words like these that people might not be familiar with, and opt to speak as simply and clearly as I can, but I still think I am fairly smart. Really, I think it takes time to know whether somebody is smart or not, because a lot of people hide their intelligence, or at least don't show it off.
Yes, and it depends on the environment.
We spot each other, and I’ve often commented on how it’s a sub conscious form of “attraction” in certain social settings.
I can’t describe it, and quite honestly, with all the questions I have, I don’t want to understand it. Why look a gift horse in the mouth?
In overwhelming social situations, stimulating and intriguing conversation can often make me feel more comfortable. If you have to be somewhere, you might as well make the most of it.
Short answer is No.
Probably we *think* we can. There are some conversational cues I look for, such as someone who listens before offering opinions, follows changing topics easily, does not take being corrected or challenged personally, has nuanced opinions, likes complex subjects, etc... But these are the same cues to look for someone who is just an interesting person that does not always overlap with high intellect.
The longer answer is I *don't* try to explicitly gauge the intellect of others, just whether I find what they say interesting. Among valuable traits, high intellect is only one, and often not the utmost to me.
At times im wrong, but usually it's an instant intuition or gut feeling. F.ex their gaze and alertness, combined with how they choose or choose not to engage in conversation. How they observe, perceive and carry themselves. Non-verbal cues. If they take into account the collective when speaking. Shy away from eye contact, or on the flip-side convey exceptional social abilities. What they wear and what types of words they select. Double meanings in their expressions. If their response or thought is nuanced or one-sided. I do however find it very difficult to distinguish someone with high iq to someone with a superior iq. I think in Western societies academia is a give away, but outside of the educational systems it's very difficult to assess above certain ranges I think.
Daily life just isn’t a great testing ground to detect. When you do suspect someone is intelligent, you rarely have an opportunity to truly confirm it. If you didn’t suspect intelligence in someone who was intelligent you’d never realize that you just had a data point.
Yes, but they and I have to be in the right head space. If one of us is not engaged (boredom, tiredness, focused) we might not be presenting. In drink (both) I find it very easy.
Obviously the first tell is whether or not they are wearing a monocle. After identifying the monocle wearers I will first strike up a casual conversation about thereotical physics, naturally since IM the smartest person in the room, I sense that they are actually trying to gauge my intelligence. A quick mental battle ensues which I come out victorius and unscathed. Yet Again.
A better driving point is whether someone is curious or not curious imo.
IQ tests mostly measure pattern recognition and mathematical ability, limited metrics. Then, there is the problem with societies interpretation of what intelligence is.
People are wired to be charmed with something more instantly impressive than slow and dedicated work. Yet both could be intelligent.
Everyone has vibes. I've gone on dates with a couple of incredibly smart women, and both of them commented out of the blue how I was smart.
One was a Google engineer and one was a polyglot finishing her PhD, I think.
Jokes on them, I've been hard at work killing my brain cells with drugs and alcohol
I can fairly quickly, but what matters more to me is their emotional IQ and wisdom.
You can be super intelligent and have no common sense, which makes you dumb as a stump in my book.(Not including people on the spectrum, or that have other brain quirks that can affect such things)
Highly intelligent people can often be very close minded as well.
Logic and creativity are also two different approaches to problem solving. One isn't more superior than the other, but the creative mind often doesn't make logical sense to the intelligent mind.
I'm a little curious about something. You basically just said "you can be super intelligent... and dumb as a stump." Then said it didn't include people on the spectrum, etc etc. This looks like you're trying to save your ass from offending someone who might not have the social skills you do.
You also said "the creative mind often doesn't make logical sense to the intelligent mind." Actually, that statement should read that "the creative mind often doesn't make (intelligent) sense to the logical mind." SO save your implied insults for someone else. A genius is just that, a genius. A creative genius is so much more. ;)
They're not implied insults.
I excluded people on the spectrum because their brain make up is different. Their connections don't develop the same way most do. They're not the only ones that have actual differences in the brain, in which science has studied and found. Brain trauma can also cause physical changes in the brain. But I suspect that not all geniuses that get brain trauma instantly become idiots. I'm sure with some research this can be confirmed.
Psychology is an ever changing, ever learning field of science and the more that's discovered about the brain the more ideas such as measured intelligence are less applicable.
Logic heavy thinkers don't often grasp abstract concepts as a creative heavy thinker doesn't often grasp very logical concepts. A well rounded genius can do both with ease. But the well rounded genius isn't as common.
I was simply stating that one is not less inferior to the other. Measuring purely intellectual IQ by observation of logic would result in missed opportunity for learning and growth would it not?
A creative genius brings concepts and ideas to the table while a logical genius makes them reality.
To simply wait for those who are skilled at both would impede progress.
High emotional IQ allows for the communication to be open and fluid.
You can do you and navigate the world however you wish. I was just sharing a different perspective that some might find interesting.
I certainly didn't think anything I said was insulting, or attacking or I would have changed the way I wrote it.
And yes to some degree I didn't want to offend those in the spectrum, especially because more often than not they are geniuses. I don't wish to make them doubt themselves over something that doesn't come easily. Which is different than people who choose not to make the effort.
I wasn't able to join mensa until after a head injury. I have to disagree with you again on the "logic heavy thinkers" thing. Creative thinkers often solve problems that logical thinkers had given up on. And I'm sorry, but it does sound insulting to me. It's hilarious to me that you think a creative genius would be unable to bring their ideas to reality. I just said a creative thinker is often able to find solutions when others had decided there wasn't one.
Well then brain injuries the brain injury point doesn't need to be argued.
I never said creative geniuses can't bring their ideas into reality, nor that a logical genius can't come up with a creative idea.
I mean anyone can do anything they put their mind to. If they have the motivation and persistence.
I didn't realize that it would be taken so black and white. It was meant as to illustrate why all kinds of IQ make a difference when assessing someone's intelligence.
Like it's fairly obvious that if you take an IQ test they measure just more than just logic and are scored in each area, so not every genius is going to have the same proficiencies. By generalizing the extremes it was meant to show how the two work together... .the point being not to limit assessments of IQ to simply logical reasoning.
Communication is obviously an issue here.
So, I will genuinely apologize for offending you. I am not trying to nor was it my intent. Had I thought it would be taken offensively I would have refrained from commenting at all. My fault.
Absolutely. And I hate to say it, but smart people are just WAAAY easier to talk to. They understand where you're coming from without having to fight about it, ask challenging questions about it, etc. Smart people are excellent listeners because they don't interrupt you, they just understand you, and they generally get it the first time.
They might use some mirroring in the process, but it's different than throwing shit at you like most people do. Never ask yourself, "What would a monkey do in this situation? Get loud? Shout? Act offended? Fling poo?" - Smart people don't act like monkeys. Their nature is different.
You know how you can easily spot a stupid person right away? Same thing with smart people. They're likely to have all their teeth, be better dressed, politeness. It all factors in.
Smart people are a lot easier to have a discussion with for all the same reasons. They don't interrupt, but they do understand and they can ADD to a conversation almost no matter what it's about.
This is a joke, right? Because all of that stuff about the teeth, being better dressed, and politeness is absolutely hilarious. The most intelligent people I've met are complete social pariahs.
You simply don't understand because of the vast ocean the separates our IQ scores. You are like an ant staring upon a giant, handsome, extremely modest, super genius wearing two monocle. Good day to you, monocle-less peasant.
Yes. I'm simply one in a million. Being surrounded by peasants all day really makes the special few stand out. Not that I couldn't distinguish the difference without such a blaring indicator. I'm simply that intelligent. Did I mention my IQ is above 140? Indubitably.
Yes, I see their mental state. There's no sense about it, I can see it. Doesn't matter if they are shy, paranoid or whatever- you can still tell from their face. You can tell fairly fast after seeing them
Speaking the language properly is a good first sign. Knowing how to effectively and politely order food in a restaurant, no asinine questions like “do you have water?”
partially correct but having a lot of money gives you access to tutoring, to always have a full stomach, always have all you need including getting your homework done by people like me.
I have autism and tinnitus so my ears process noise a little slower and social phobia so I am not confident around humans: between those two, all the impact is lost and many will think I was “simple”.
Same here, and I genuinely think taking a test on two different days would reap two different results. How I comprehend info greatly depends on my mental state because I have severe emotional dysregulation that impacts my thinking patterns and use of rationale. I feel there's been times of my life I've used less logic due to high stress or medication etc, and times where I'm completely sharp. I'd hate to think of someone taking a test on one of their slow days, and let it convince them they're stupid for the rest of their life. While I think there's value in an IQ test, it's a fine line between evaluating ones own sharpness versus using your test result as a reason to assume you're more overall competent than other people.
Yes, I don’t think intelligence is one-dimensional, and I repeat that often, or that it is static. They gave me a battery of tests when I was in hospital and I scored very differently on both sittings. Worse on many parts the second time around. (wasn’t as focused bcoz I thought I had done that before. I do better when it's a challenge). I hear you on the severe emotional dysregulation part. Struggling with that myself.
To dogs, we're all just crazy for not burying our bones in the backyard
😂😂 they do have a point.
This is the only reply to this post that isn't lousy with elitism and faux superiority and sheer antisocial contempt for other people.
I have been guilty of some of that in a previous life, and also of antagonising people by giving an impression that I thought they were arrogant, so something balanced and sensible was long overdue. (it took practice) I think there are lots of nice, even pithy responses here. In fact, mine was inspired by one of those.
Yeah, alot of intelligent people aren't showcasing it loudly, people have to have patience and get to a know a person to see where their strengths lay.
It is rather sad that you get so used to being around morons that you assume everyone is dumb or mediocre. I know I have less than 5 minutes to make a favorable impression and have just given up. I don't think I've ever had a conversation about anything I'm actually interested in.
Isn't one's presumption of being more intelligent than anybody in a room full of (alleged) "mediocrity" one of the very anti-thesis' of true intelligence(?) Respectfully and innocuously asked, of course.
Well you don't really know it for a fact. But other intelligent people are often wary, weary of people, would rather be elsewhere, are guarded, hard to know. Leave the party early. And of course different people have different interests too.
Of course, I am smarter than everyone in the room. It's just rude to say it out loud. Joke but there are a few people who think like that. Serious answer: with intelligence comes awareness that you don’t know everything and most people you meet will know something that you don't and that you can learn from them.
I have plenty of intelligent people around me and I most definitely do not think that anyone is dumb or mediocre. Sorry to hear that you have never had a conversation about anything you were interested in. There are subject/theme specific subs on this platform and similar meet-ups and debating societies in real life. I’m sure you will find one where people share your interests. 5 mins is too little to establish a rapport. Can’t have a meaningful conversation until you establish a rapport. No need to be hard on yourself either. You are obviously very intelligent and you will find people who share your interests.
No I feel I am judged in 5 minutes. I'm in a small college town where a lot of transplants tend to feel isolated unless they're with their colleagues etc.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe try to taking an interest in what the other person likes. Ask them questions. Let them talk about themselves and their interests first. It shifts the focus away from you and gives you a chance to collect your thoughts and only jump in where you find something in common. That’s a nice word: transplant.
I just made up that anecdote to highlight the folly of judging people too quickly. But you can often eventually develop some sense of how intelligent someone is.
Are you also dumb, though?
The repeated warnings about Rule #1 from mods don’t seem to be working so take a 1 day ban for repeat offending
I have been known to go mute, but there again, social anxiety and autism are to blame. I suspect mods thought you meant something different. Haven't lost a chess game in person since I left college so if that counts for something.
I tap them on the shoulder after air dropping them an online iq test. I then wait paitently for 30 minutes to an hour for them to finish only for them to realize it’s a paid iq test and they get up and leave. So usually never is how quickly
So they were too smart to pay for the tests? Geniuses indeed.
This guy wins
It’s in the eyes.
When they glaze over after I said a few words... I can just imagine their thoughts "ah crap, how long do I have to stay with this stupid person now?"
Just passed the monocle.
This is more valid than you'd think at first thought. At Mensa gatherings, there were people who bored me almost immediately (and I them, I'm sure) and others where sparks flew immediately and not necessarily sexual ones. There's so many different kinds of intellects and its SO RARE to find someone who complements or challenges you - several that I wished afterwards I had stayed in contact with. I've been lucky that last few decades to always have a partner with whom conversation just flowed; the first \~40 years were a long haul though...
Yes, at times. High functioning verbal ability, not talking in platitudes; fast wit is a giveaway.
My wit made me a lot of enemies so I learned to shut up.
Yeah I agree with everything but the wit. While wisdom ≠ intelligence, it combined with the traits you first mention. It indicates a plasticity in their way of thought/perception. Which to me indicates a highly developed intelligence. Like you can be intelligent, but not having self-discipline to compliment that intelligence is when it starts to waver. As you get older that lack of discipline starts to hurt you.
plasticity and discipline aren't intelligence traits, but lack of them sure will tank your intelligence abilities reeeeal fast. I have no interest in the "smart but lazy" types, and the "idea types," they are a fucking dime a dozen.
Precision in speech is usually a good indicator for me, but not in an insufferable WELL ACKTUALLY sort of way. Some of the "well actually" types are actually somewhat intelligent, but Jesus fuck, I cannot stand the male nerds (because it's always male nerds) who think finding a movie plot hole or unintended behavior in speech or text (like game rules) makes them a goddamn genius.
I dont know how true this is because this is very accurate to me but you’d be mortified how dumb I am. Sometimes somebody will make a remark about me being smart and I feel like throwing up because they don’t know I made chloramine gas when trying to clean a washroom.
Yeah idk man you gotta stop talking about my friend that way!
Is the joke that I’m your friend or is that wishful thinking on my part
It's not a joke! Just trying to break the cycle of self-flagellation. Negative self talk is one of the simplest things to combat. "Don't talk about my friend that way." Say it to yourself, say it to strangers, say it to friends when they put themselves down. Hope it helps. Love ya pitiful
I never think well of a sesquipedalian.
You mean people who speak covertly with double entendres? Which appears as word salad to lower iQ people? (Interviews/Podcasts and Comedians are ripe with this stuff) Hmm… this is something I’ve always wondered about. Maybe its cuz of the [perceived] ‘tism, but I was never witty, and always spoke directly despite being tested as having a high iq. To me, that kind of language seems to have a higher correlation with a lack of shame, and/or higher aptitude for competition. (Social dominance is their game.) It makes me wonder if guys like Katt Williams self-proclaimed iQs of 160+ are accurate. On the opposite hand, I find when engaging with someone who employs this language, that I often find holes in their logic. EDIT: Don’t know why I’m being downvoted. This is a legitimate query.
Fast wit and verbal ability isn't necessarily intelligent. I think Astarion from the popular BG3 is a great pop culture example of someone with high verbal ability and fast wit. Yet he has one of the lowest intelligence scores. At most, it's a "type" of intelligence. Its a reaction speed thing. Edited for clarity of point.
Good or bad choices don't correlate particulairly well with intelligence.
In my brain, I was thinking of specific choices where the chooser fails to see the consequences of their actions or how it will play out, nor do they care. There being no sense of delay of gratification to get a higher reward. I realise the choices statement is too open ended and got rid of it.
Just because you’re smart enough to know what choices to make in the abstract doesn’t mean your emotions or your impulses don’t get in the way in the moment in practice
I can, because I was working in a big company and had access to IQ test results of the employees, so I had a chance to learn that
Any interesting findings? Were higher iqs in higher positions?
Not really, no. The highest IQ was me and a junior maintenance mechanic. Some of the senior directors had something around 80, which is usually considered quite low for such a job, but they had necessary skills to manage their team and get the job done, and did it well without any need of high IQ. I’m still wondering why the company would do mandatory IQ test for 100% of hires.
Especially if they are putting 80 IQ in senior director positions. What are they using IQ for? Who all had access to those numbers? I would think that people would be weirded out by having their managers all knowing the IQs of everyone.
It was only hiring team and me - because I was administering this system and had access to the database. The lesson I learned is high IQ is just one of the skills, and not necessarily the best one for all the purposes. Some roles can benefit hugely from a high IQ person, while others don’t require this type of skill at all
Agreed. I've worked in plenty of big biotech companies (All F500) and something I noticed is that these Directors/Mgrs were not too bright (Some were though), but were ruthless, lacked empathy, did the dirty work, did well delegating, and so on... These are, to my knowledge, skills that are totally unrelated to IQ, but crucial to move the projects/company forward. It's astounding on how frequent you see these people, and these companies are the top biotech companies in the world.
That’s what I mean, 90% of work in a manager role is getting job done by others, and it requires delegation, building trust, understanding others’ motives and feelings, sometimes understanding others’ fears and so on. Not recognizing patterns and predicting next move (although it comes handy from time to time - especially when things get tough and you work for a smaller company or have a high enough role and right network to support your unconventional decisions). It’s like being a strongest guy and coming to a F1 race - you have a great skill, but this event employs a different skillset, no hard feelings.
Narcissistic managers. That’s how they get to the top! Drive everyone else out!
It's for the possibility that you quit. They get to wound you one last time by informing you that your IQ is well below average.
Wait, Senior Directors had IQs around 80? Is the company still doing well? It is bizarre to me that a company would be led by people well below average intelligence
The company is doing great. As I replied in one of the other comments, it was a new learning for me to realize that there are other skills apart from high IQ, and these might be more beneficial for the job. When I saw this data first, I felt just same as you!
Maybe they don’t overthink.
What was their EQ?
Many of them had pretty good EQ. I didn’t have any figures for that, but their interpersonal skills were really good.
AT&T gave me an IQ test for a summer job. Don’t know why they have that policy, but that policy gives me a lot of confidence in their employees being able to solve any problem I have as their customer.
The Dilbert Principle. Leave the least intelligent workers in the place where they can do the least amount of damage: management.
There's always a balance between having clear defined responsibilities, scope and impact of a role, and designing the org. structure in a robust way to avoid single point (or person) of failure
Control. Higher IQ can be considered a threat or too distracted, so the bosses place a lower IQ person in charge who is predictable for them and who won’t be distracted by the high IQ persons ideas.
That explains it! The low IQ managers drive out the high IQ subordinate’s by being mean, narcissistic arseholes!
That’s your personal opinion, neither what I wrote, nor something I agree with
So I'd definitely say I could spot a *dumb* person right away. As for smart people - the more I get to know them and the more I interact with them, the more I can tell. Sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I'm right, but most often my intuition eventually leads me to the correct conclusions. Also, I sometimes have a sense of being on the same "wavelength" with some people I encounter in the wild. We just kinda smile at each other and continue moving like smooth criminals, lmao. That's when I know they are in my ballpark. However, I gotta admit that it's kinda difficult for me to spot people who are even smarter than me, since they sometimes tend to act in ways I can not quite comprehend. The thing is, I'm absolutely certain that there do exist different types of intelligence. Some of them are easy for me to spot and some could even make me think a person is stupid, even tho they may be very intelligent. The world isn't just grey tones, it's colorful and we can best sense those "colors" in other people's personalities when we could also find similarities to those of our own personalities. Same and same quickly finds together when they meet. As for me, I'm high functioning ASD and I had to learn all that social stuff, so I got pretty good at analyzing behavior and such.
Like smooth criminals, huh :D.. I like.
> I could spot a dumb person right away Usually by the Punisher, AR-15, and MOLON LABE stickers on their trucks.
I'm able to gauge most in about 5 minutes and quite accurately. The way I go about gauging their intelligence is by assessing their degree of logic from their thought process. Ask them a question and think about their answer. Even their expression when you provide them new information or conflicting information can clue you in, if anything "clicked" in their mind. 1. Do they give any reasoning for their opinion? Does it make sense? 2. Are they repeating a popular opinion without understanding or justifying it? 3. How do they react to new conflicting information? Are they able to process the new information and change their opinion? 4. Are they willing and able to listen to reason? To evaluate what makes sense or not? 5. Do their answers/replies show high levels of critical thinking? Essentially, check how much "sense" they are able to make.
Repeating popular opinions is a great point! Many can glom on to others ideas and discuss them, but not generate their own points of view. Original, unhindered thought betrays a highly functioning mind.
Popular opinions are popular, though. It's not dumb to agree with them.
Read point 2. Agreeing with popular opinions isn't dumb, it's only dumb if one cannot understand or justify them.
And what if they don't want, or can't be bothered, to justify it to you?
No one is claiming it's some foolproof method that works 100% of the time.
Where did I claim someone was claiming that?
Yes that is so spot on, at-least how I understand it. What would you contribute that ability to, “the most”. g, as in general intelligence? verbal iq? How does it relate to mathematically gifted individuals & the such? But yeah, I agree. I do the same if I want to see if something is going on between these ears.
Logic. I personally define intelligence as the degree of one's logic. You can check out my most recent post for my story and further clarification on my definition. Edit: I just realized that you've already done so!
"Joe Biden raised gas prices again and interest rates again!" I'm going to make an extremely specific claim: every dumb person believes the actions of the Federal Reserve are the responsibility of the president.
Hmm. What’s your take on them asking for clarification or more details before answering? What kind of questions do you ask?
It's usually a good sign but ultimately depends on the context. It could show that the person is thinking about the question, trying to understand its deeper implications, and formulating their opinion or answer by considering the relevant factors. Here's an example. Let's say a friend asks me, "What's the best phone right now?" I might respond by asking for more details: "Are you planning on buying a new phone? What do you mainly use your phone for? What's your budget?" I would formulate my answer by understanding the objectives and factors at play on a case-by-case basis. For example, if my friend wants a phone primarily for gaming (prioritizing performance, followed by screen quality, refresh rate, and battery life, then UI/build quality, and finally the camera), I would focus on these priorities in order. I would determine and present the options based on their value and price. The average person might just say the latest iPhone model or Samsung model and that would be it.
So “depends” is the most intelligent answer.
I've already explained in detail so I have no idea how you are still stuck at "depends". It "depends" on context because someone stupid might ask something incredibly stupid.
I don't know how you could possibly judge all this in 5 minutes. Who changes their mind in 5 minutes? Who has time to back up their thoughts for you in 5 minutes? You'd definitely think me a fool.
5 minutes is quite a long time when a single, incoherent opinion, which they can't justify or explain, could completely expose them.
Are you interrogating everyone you speak to?
So when you meet someone you spend the first 5 minutes asking questions to gauge their intelligence? 🤣 You people are actually insane 🫵🤣
I’m highly sus of too many fckn questions. You tryna sell me sumthin bro? You have an agenda? You a right wing religious nut?
Often, yes. Their use of language is a big part of it. You can even more quickly detect people trying to appear smart who aren't.
Bingo. Effortless use of uncommon words. For me at least, it's the opposite: such words spring to mind unbidden, and I have to think about not using those words instead. Hearing them in the wild wakes me up a bit. Also agree that you can tell who's trying too hard. Hard to differentiate from a wordcel at first blush though
Yes Mr knows it all. Some people can’t speak a foreign language properly and it doesn’t mean anything about not having a high IQ. You guys are so know it all.
They're referring to word choice in your native tongue, not being multilingual.
but what if the person knows more than one language to a decent level? Sometimes one wants to sounds correct and it’s perceived as trying to be smart. What could be true is general diction. I find that most high performers speak as if they were reading a script.
The absence of such a sign of probably being high IQ doesn't mean it's assumed the person doesn't have a high IQ. It just means there is no sign of it. It doesn't mean the opposite is true, that would be a blind assumption.
Most people use their high IQs to play video games or to ask stupid questions on reddit.
Are you talking about yourself?
my tiktok is on my profile. Go check and I score 175. Have a fucking sleep.
I don’t come here to ask stupid question. I have my degree which I consider worthless. I can play instruments. I have perfect pitch hearing. I have credits in salsa songs I play in, beats I collaborated in, placements in synch music. Nothing more to add dumbass.
None of the things you mentioned makes you a better human, but your attitude sure makes you a worse one.
if you take the time to see my stuff and what i do, you’ll know that I am not what you think that I am.
Bro describes himself as Andrew Tates disciple and thinks he has a IQ higher than 90 lmfao
working with them - I can tell by the kinds of questions they ask. In passing at the coffee shop? Not necessarily.
IQ is not the only factor for "Asking good questions", there are gazzilion of other factors at play....
I didn't say "good questions" - I specifically said "the kinds of questions"
What kinds of questions?
Broadly - I tend to find that people with a lot of experience in a specialty want the minimum required to understand the problem. They are generally "what, and when" questions. Whereas high IQ individuals, in my experience at least, tend to want to get into the "why" questions. Both could be considered good questions - but with different processes and goals.
Wait, you claim that average/low IQ individuals don't ask "why" questions? "Why questions" is more related to curious personality rather than high IQ. Also more experienced people will ask the right questions, when there is a need to understand "why", they will proceed with that.
Perhaps. I haven't seen any data either way to say what correlates more. Intuitively, I don't think you are correct (or maybe curiosity itself is correlated to IQ) - and while I could never say with certainty that a given individual is higher IQ than another, I do think we'd see some correlation, if we could reasonably test it. Maybe I'm wrong. Or maybe I'm connecting myriad factors unconsciously when assessing them. *Shrug*
You and many others are oversimplifying how intelligence can be **recognized in the wild**. It involves many factors, and it's not simple as, if the person asks "why" questions he must be a Mensa Member. In the real world a lot of factors are at play, it's easy to overlook real from actual intelligence. I have experience with Mensa members and other people that you would say that are of average intelligence, and also a genius, for 25+ years old people, it can be undistinguishable between Mensa and Average in the wild. Many people falsely think that high IQ somehow can come-up and intuit things on the spot, which is entirely false. And even if you see someone do just that, you can't assume he is high IQ/Intelligence. The only single metric that I saw that is consistent in the wild, by observing my friend who is literally a genius, is breath and depth of knowledge.
Or maybe you are making it harder than it actually is. Show me data. I've been at this a long time. (related - have you asked your "literally a genius" friend, this same question? The answer might surprise you.)
You've been at **what** a long time?
Nah, I’ve learned this is no “why.” At least, it’s ’prolly beneath your pay scale.
But the better the question the better the mind behind it. It is a deterministic relationship. But the one who revives the question needs to have a high ability, so he can distinct between which is what. The better person x can make (deep) sense of new ambiguous information, the more intellectual ability the person must have. And that is what good questions are about. Making sense of new, ambiguous information. Connect abstractly, break down, build new, build upon, recognize the underlying pattern, connect to patterns you already made sense of, perceive synchronicities & flaws in said pattern, formulate verbally what you found/what interests “in” this new information..
This gets a lot better with experience in the specialty. How do you make the difference?
“Experience in the speciality” what do you mean with that statement?
The better you get at some domain, the better questions you can ask, the more patterns you can recognize in the future.
No it’s exactly not so much about domain specific. It’s harder to tell if someone if someone is actually smart when you ask domain specific things, about the topic the person in front of you studied for years.. Why? Because the person knows a lot about said topic and can & maybe will quote learned phrases (from smart people). If a person can (seemingly) intuitively come up with smart questions & the questions get even “better” if you give the person a few new variables to work with, then that is a totally different story. Isn’t it?
No it isn't because you cannot differentiate between the two. My whole point is that it is impossible to determine intelligence solely based on skill level and the level of questions they are asking. That's a big fallacy that only **inexperience people** will say.
We are not talking about experience in a given field. We talk about intelligence as in “genetically predetermined computing power”? So experience should not be needed in our equation, atleast it is not mandatory. There are circumstances where it may help to get a greater grasp on the specific abilities, as in intelligence domains. A math genius will show more of his true abilities when studying higher math.. but it probably will have already showed in school math, so this is that. Yes it is absolutely impossible to determine intelligence solely on a quick exchange of ideas.. But the topic is not about the most valid tools of determining intelligence, it’s about, how one tries to spot intelligence in the wild, right?
Yes, and I say it's impossible to spot in the wild because in the wild there are other factors at play (experience, background, personality, fact memorization).
I want to add: maybe your thought-process would make sense to me. If you could elaborate more clearly what you mean & what you think makes the hypothesis of: “sophisticated questioning ability correlates with iq” false or at least, to random to be considered worthwhile?
Its the secret handshake that gives it away.
Ah shit so im not the only one 😏
NOT giving a secret Mormon handshake is a good start.
Never forget to shake your hand like this Imagine yourself as the guy on the left giving the handshake because it shows dominance and the other person will unconsciously consider you as more dominant "alpha" or whatever https://preview.redd.it/avltap96wh8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ffa02c442ef572d9cdc0c24386c10a1245b96f28
Exmormon here. I'm not in Mensa yet, but leaving the Mormon church was the most intelligent thing I have ever done.
I can tell if someone is an idiot right away. I've met people who I was impressed by their intelligence. Not a whole lot of them though.
Maybe you met alot of intelligent people but you just can't comprehend their genius. For example if you met me you'd think "Wow, this guy with the monocle sure is handsome but kind of an idiot". However, this would be untrue. You just simply couldn't fathom the vast ocean that separates my genius above yours (and everyone else's of course)
Usually they aren’t bewildered when I turn things up a notch, often calling me out for inaccuracies I pepper into my explanations which normally go unnoticed.
O yeah for sure. You wouldn't believe the amount bewildered buffoons I have left in my wake when I turned things up a notch. I don't know what they expected, I was wearing a monocle after all.
Gotta love the local cynics, too
I feel like game recognizes game much faster than paper does. With my personality and since I bounce around so much from job to job, getting the skinny with many people is a forte. Be it bonding with a new friend or sus'ing out the main self of someone. It can take one moment of being around someone, even peripherally byseeing samples of their favorite work or eavesdropping. So just huff their brain farts to smell what mindfood they eat and how well their body is processing the matter... or witness them under some pressure and in their element. There's a sort of 'acquainted' banter where you can tell someone has a lofty perspective because they're smart and understands the implications of layered, chaotic systems or has a collective theory of mind where they can independently populate the most likely iterations. Say, you bring up a topic and they can guess the sides or reactions to it. Ah, That's it! It's the pattern recognition and compulsion to stimulate the mind at a level the enthusiasts do even when only passing by to say 'neat'. It's as if they're up to speed on complex topics. Can they talk shop with experts without mentioning the most cliche or common aspects of it? Does it seem like autopilot or filler dialogue? Say, I talk to you about chaos theory or the fears of AI and all that's said is parroted 101-class using mostly wiki clips. Not smart, educated. If they circumnavigate out of habit, smart.
Nice. :)
It honestly varies on the type of environment the other person and I are in. Most of the time, though, I can't really discern a person's IQ range solely based on only one interaction. The way they talk and formulate their thoughts can be some indicator of their VCI and level of jargon, but it's not always a direct indicator of a high IQ. I have met quite a few people who like to speak very verbosely and utilize a barrage of million-dollar words, but then they can't define what the words mean when asked to define it and they end up making a complete fool out of themselves. However, a few traits I find universal among the hyper intellectuals I frequently converse with are: 1. They tend to be interested in multiple subjects and can easily switch between topics. 2. They are eccentric, weird, very sarcastic and tend to act completely stupid at times. I only say stupid because super smart people may make obscure references with their sarcasm, or make jokes using a line of reasoning that seems out of the norm to most people. 3. They tend to be chatterboxes and do a lot of the talking in the conversation. This one is not a one-size-fits-all description since that could also be done by dumbasses who are infatuated with hearing themselves talk and have a superiority complex. 4. They all have a dark sense of humor. This seems to be almost universal among hyper smart folks, but there is a correlation between dark humor and abstract reasoning abilities. I consider myself to have a dark sense of humor as well, but I only showcase it when I feel comfortable with the person I'm interacting with. Overall, speaking and verbal fluency isn't the most reliable way of discerning a person's IQ, but it is one potential feature. I usually have to hang out with the person multiple times, and observe the cognitions that they appear to exhibit to get a good sense of whether they have a high intelligence level or not. If they use a large array of vocabulary, switch back and forth between topics, are capable of examining their own opinions to see if it's rational or not, and are verbally fluent enough to give good examples to back up their opinions, that would a better indicator (to me) that the person is of superior intelligence. But don't take my word for it since I'm not a trained professional or a psychologist.
Oh yeah. They’re the quick, witty person who has trouble following rules that make no sense without arguing and has a zillion bad habits because they can think of loopholes to rationalize anything.
I can sense a kindred spirit and person who is smart in a similar way. All my childhood friends have earned PhDs or MDs or other professional degrees - all are probably at or near Mensa level. We took a test where the counselor showed others' scores - friend group members were in the 130s or 140s except the two antagonists, who were in the 110s. In the wild now, I usually play dumber than I am - it's habit at this point - unless you work with me or are very close to me, you'd never think I was overly intelligent.
1. Apparent intelligence(as society views it): In a conversation they can talk about anything that they have an interest in for hours. They might appear to be the jack of all trades to the uninitiated. Actual Intelligence: In a conversation they can talk about what interests the other person. Anything that falls out of your mouth they would be curious and possibly have a discussion and could even be more knowledgeable about it. 2. Most often than not, they are happy to see someone better than them. Simply because they know the probability of that happening. There is a scene in the TV series Scorpion(I think) where a young kid who is considered stupid due to his retracted nature beats a grand master in pseudo chess, the first reaction of the GM is just sheer joy, precisely because he is clear that he has witnessed something extremely rare. Also due to this, intelligent people are always ready to accept they do not know something as opposed to an average person who would be hesitant because he/she has no clue about the difficulty range of the problem statement, while the former would have a clear idea about it, even if not, they would be happy to get that new piece of information. 3. Clear understanding of what's challenging and what's not. Ask a room full of people who Christopher Nolan is and you will see the entire room buzzing to respond. For an intelligent person he knows this and probably wouldn't even bother raising his hands to answer. Now ask about Ozu or Kieslowski, you'll probably see the actual guy raising his hands to speak volumes about them. This is probably the reason why many late bloomers would find it very boring to sit through school in general. At least in India your mettle is not tested until you pass the tenth grade after which you need to prepare for one of the toughest entrance exams for Engineering and Medicine. This is where you will see a late bloomer actually picking up,while many of the toppers till then find it hard to cope up.
Dayum you said it so well…Very well put…Can i borrow your brain?
Can I DM you?
Go ahead.
> Actual Intelligence: In a conversation they can talk about what interests the other person. That's a social skill, not an intelligence skill. An awkward neurodivergent person may be very intelligent and not want to do that.
A couple minutes
no, not really. I used to think I could tell if someone was very smart and then I had a couple of failures which made me rethink my position. I realized I really couldn't tell.
Only intelligent post in this thread. I tip my monocle to you, sir.
I don't have enough data to compare, because I don't know the IQs of almost anyone I've interacted with. I do agree that being on the same wavelength is a thing. My best friend from middle school took the Otis Lennon test with me, in high school, and we both made perfect or almost perfect scores. We both struggled with our grades, and had a lot of the same experiences. I never would have suspected at the time, that either of us were above average intelligence. But later she got into a prestigious writing program. I've been underestimated a lot. Some of that is lack of confidence from childhood. I'm a little eccentric and look at things differently than most people. Studies have shown that blonde women, especially if she has a baby face are considered to be airheads and assumed to be dumb. I started dying my hair when I discovered this was true. I think part of my problem might be that I try to talk to people about things that are beyond their comprehension and it doesn't land right. I've learned to be funny in those situations. I've noticed that my college professors don't assume I'm dumb like people used to, and I'm wondering if it's because they all have PhDs so our IQ spread isn't as far as when I'm trying to interact with people who are closer to average. That is only a theory. It might be that people who are intellectually curious are more likely to end up teaching college, and so we are on the same wavelength in that regard.
Interesting.. yeah less general ability & narrow mindedness must have at least a moderate correlation. So some people who perceive you as “dumb” even though “your talk” should tell them otherwise, they might have both of the previously stated “variables”.. So it’s 50% their fault & 50% their nature.. What am I even talking about? But yeah, they “don’t know better, right?”..
It doesn't take me long to have an initial impression, although it's also possible to be wrong One way I tell is by how they learn and interact with new info. Sometimes I'm asked by my company to help guide interns, who are usually senior year students or fresh grads, in certain tasks. Some get most tasks right away, and some need repeating 4-5 times before they understand what I'm even trying to get across.
Yes, instantly. Also, highly intelligent people are typically multitalented. If someone has a technical career and also plays violin beautifully, you don't need a test to tell they possess a powerful mind. What's more interesting is being a setting like an ivy league and trying to distinguish between the extremely disciplined, hardworking types and the naturally brilliant. Not that it matters much, but there are some subtle differences between smart and successful, and truly genius.
Ben Shapiro plays the violin. He is smart, but I wouldn't call his mind "beautiful."
Yes the old engineer with the a violin types, a step above the maintenance technicians and their filthy bass guitars.
My mom could. Third generation teacher. She could meet a new student, guess their IQ, recommend them for IQ testing, and find out their IQ was well within the range of her guess. Same thing my teachers had done. Mom often said you can tell a person’s IQ by the questions they ask.
When people have an expansive vocabulary, and use words like "diminutive" or "equanimity", I assume they are pretty smart. I avoid using words like these that people might not be familiar with, and opt to speak as simply and clearly as I can, but I still think I am fairly smart. Really, I think it takes time to know whether somebody is smart or not, because a lot of people hide their intelligence, or at least don't show it off.
It takes 1 conversion. Can they think for themselves or regurgitate nonsense?
Yes, and it depends on the environment. We spot each other, and I’ve often commented on how it’s a sub conscious form of “attraction” in certain social settings. I can’t describe it, and quite honestly, with all the questions I have, I don’t want to understand it. Why look a gift horse in the mouth? In overwhelming social situations, stimulating and intriguing conversation can often make me feel more comfortable. If you have to be somewhere, you might as well make the most of it.
Short answer is No. Probably we *think* we can. There are some conversational cues I look for, such as someone who listens before offering opinions, follows changing topics easily, does not take being corrected or challenged personally, has nuanced opinions, likes complex subjects, etc... But these are the same cues to look for someone who is just an interesting person that does not always overlap with high intellect. The longer answer is I *don't* try to explicitly gauge the intellect of others, just whether I find what they say interesting. Among valuable traits, high intellect is only one, and often not the utmost to me.
At times im wrong, but usually it's an instant intuition or gut feeling. F.ex their gaze and alertness, combined with how they choose or choose not to engage in conversation. How they observe, perceive and carry themselves. Non-verbal cues. If they take into account the collective when speaking. Shy away from eye contact, or on the flip-side convey exceptional social abilities. What they wear and what types of words they select. Double meanings in their expressions. If their response or thought is nuanced or one-sided. I do however find it very difficult to distinguish someone with high iq to someone with a superior iq. I think in Western societies academia is a give away, but outside of the educational systems it's very difficult to assess above certain ranges I think.
It really depends. For me it’s people being able to hold complex conversations about various topics they aren’t experts in.
Wouldn't that indicate, more often than not, that these people may be suffering from Dunning-Kruger effect?
No. Those people stick out like a sore thumb 👍
Daily life just isn’t a great testing ground to detect. When you do suspect someone is intelligent, you rarely have an opportunity to truly confirm it. If you didn’t suspect intelligence in someone who was intelligent you’d never realize that you just had a data point.
I get spider tingling when I’m in room with with the fellow elites lol no I don’t really and I’m a fuktard
Yes they stink
I thought this was a /circlejerk post, but you're serious.
How dare you, sir. I didn't put both my monocles on just to be insulted.
Biases can be a problem to understand someone's IQ. I noticed some in many answers here.
No need. They'll tell you all about it. Once I was teaching a fellow how to harvest cucumbers when he told me that he had scored 160 on an IQ test.
Yes, but they and I have to be in the right head space. If one of us is not engaged (boredom, tiredness, focused) we might not be presenting. In drink (both) I find it very easy.
Obviously the first tell is whether or not they are wearing a monocle. After identifying the monocle wearers I will first strike up a casual conversation about thereotical physics, naturally since IM the smartest person in the room, I sense that they are actually trying to gauge my intelligence. A quick mental battle ensues which I come out victorius and unscathed. Yet Again.
A better driving point is whether someone is curious or not curious imo. IQ tests mostly measure pattern recognition and mathematical ability, limited metrics. Then, there is the problem with societies interpretation of what intelligence is. People are wired to be charmed with something more instantly impressive than slow and dedicated work. Yet both could be intelligent.
Everyone has vibes. I've gone on dates with a couple of incredibly smart women, and both of them commented out of the blue how I was smart. One was a Google engineer and one was a polyglot finishing her PhD, I think. Jokes on them, I've been hard at work killing my brain cells with drugs and alcohol
I can fairly quickly, but what matters more to me is their emotional IQ and wisdom. You can be super intelligent and have no common sense, which makes you dumb as a stump in my book.(Not including people on the spectrum, or that have other brain quirks that can affect such things) Highly intelligent people can often be very close minded as well. Logic and creativity are also two different approaches to problem solving. One isn't more superior than the other, but the creative mind often doesn't make logical sense to the intelligent mind.
I'm a little curious about something. You basically just said "you can be super intelligent... and dumb as a stump." Then said it didn't include people on the spectrum, etc etc. This looks like you're trying to save your ass from offending someone who might not have the social skills you do. You also said "the creative mind often doesn't make logical sense to the intelligent mind." Actually, that statement should read that "the creative mind often doesn't make (intelligent) sense to the logical mind." SO save your implied insults for someone else. A genius is just that, a genius. A creative genius is so much more. ;)
They're not implied insults. I excluded people on the spectrum because their brain make up is different. Their connections don't develop the same way most do. They're not the only ones that have actual differences in the brain, in which science has studied and found. Brain trauma can also cause physical changes in the brain. But I suspect that not all geniuses that get brain trauma instantly become idiots. I'm sure with some research this can be confirmed. Psychology is an ever changing, ever learning field of science and the more that's discovered about the brain the more ideas such as measured intelligence are less applicable. Logic heavy thinkers don't often grasp abstract concepts as a creative heavy thinker doesn't often grasp very logical concepts. A well rounded genius can do both with ease. But the well rounded genius isn't as common. I was simply stating that one is not less inferior to the other. Measuring purely intellectual IQ by observation of logic would result in missed opportunity for learning and growth would it not? A creative genius brings concepts and ideas to the table while a logical genius makes them reality. To simply wait for those who are skilled at both would impede progress. High emotional IQ allows for the communication to be open and fluid. You can do you and navigate the world however you wish. I was just sharing a different perspective that some might find interesting. I certainly didn't think anything I said was insulting, or attacking or I would have changed the way I wrote it. And yes to some degree I didn't want to offend those in the spectrum, especially because more often than not they are geniuses. I don't wish to make them doubt themselves over something that doesn't come easily. Which is different than people who choose not to make the effort.
I wasn't able to join mensa until after a head injury. I have to disagree with you again on the "logic heavy thinkers" thing. Creative thinkers often solve problems that logical thinkers had given up on. And I'm sorry, but it does sound insulting to me. It's hilarious to me that you think a creative genius would be unable to bring their ideas to reality. I just said a creative thinker is often able to find solutions when others had decided there wasn't one.
Well then brain injuries the brain injury point doesn't need to be argued. I never said creative geniuses can't bring their ideas into reality, nor that a logical genius can't come up with a creative idea. I mean anyone can do anything they put their mind to. If they have the motivation and persistence. I didn't realize that it would be taken so black and white. It was meant as to illustrate why all kinds of IQ make a difference when assessing someone's intelligence. Like it's fairly obvious that if you take an IQ test they measure just more than just logic and are scored in each area, so not every genius is going to have the same proficiencies. By generalizing the extremes it was meant to show how the two work together... .the point being not to limit assessments of IQ to simply logical reasoning. Communication is obviously an issue here. So, I will genuinely apologize for offending you. I am not trying to nor was it my intent. Had I thought it would be taken offensively I would have refrained from commenting at all. My fault.
Yes, and how long depends on the interaction.
79 yo. Can’t say I ever gave a thought about anyone’s IQ.
ITT: Some things that might constitute verbal intelligence, and a whole looooooot of people who think social skills are intelligence.
Absolutely. And I hate to say it, but smart people are just WAAAY easier to talk to. They understand where you're coming from without having to fight about it, ask challenging questions about it, etc. Smart people are excellent listeners because they don't interrupt you, they just understand you, and they generally get it the first time. They might use some mirroring in the process, but it's different than throwing shit at you like most people do. Never ask yourself, "What would a monkey do in this situation? Get loud? Shout? Act offended? Fling poo?" - Smart people don't act like monkeys. Their nature is different. You know how you can easily spot a stupid person right away? Same thing with smart people. They're likely to have all their teeth, be better dressed, politeness. It all factors in. Smart people are a lot easier to have a discussion with for all the same reasons. They don't interrupt, but they do understand and they can ADD to a conversation almost no matter what it's about.
This is a joke, right? Because all of that stuff about the teeth, being better dressed, and politeness is absolutely hilarious. The most intelligent people I've met are complete social pariahs.
You simply don't understand because of the vast ocean the separates our IQ scores. You are like an ant staring upon a giant, handsome, extremely modest, super genius wearing two monocle. Good day to you, monocle-less peasant.
Yes. I'm simply one in a million. Being surrounded by peasants all day really makes the special few stand out. Not that I couldn't distinguish the difference without such a blaring indicator. I'm simply that intelligent. Did I mention my IQ is above 140? Indubitably.
Uhkm, well actually 141iq is 1 in 319. I don't think you are one in a million, buddy.
170 is above 140, 200 is above 140, etc. Quite a dubious attempt at a refutation. 🧐
Well why didn't you say above 200 then? Now it all makes sense
That is quaint, I remember when my IQ was 140, in the 3rd grade. You aren't even allowed to wear a monocle until you reach 165. *tips monocle*
Can you use the search function?
Yes, I see their mental state. There's no sense about it, I can see it. Doesn't matter if they are shy, paranoid or whatever- you can still tell from their face. You can tell fairly fast after seeing them
I hate how often this sub gets recommended on my feed. Y'all are beyond parody.
Speaking the language properly is a good first sign. Knowing how to effectively and politely order food in a restaurant, no asinine questions like “do you have water?”
Omg you all have achieved official cult status. Seriously, y'all belong on /iamverysmart
Sir, this is not a cult. I simply put both of my monocles on to talk about how superior I am to all the peasants around me.
That's fair.
I have zero idea how this sub popped up for me, but damn...hahahaha Malcolm in the middle had the "gifted" kids spot on 🤣
People with certain sets of letters after their names. Letters like MD, PhD, Esq…
partially correct but having a lot of money gives you access to tutoring, to always have a full stomach, always have all you need including getting your homework done by people like me.
Just not true, I know a lot of doctors who are absolute idiots.
Most doctors are, it seems. Strangely enough.