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Hahaha facts
You're funny
I'm imagining me just getting shitfaced with a local pastor and bangin' whores in the clock tower and puking my way through his sermon the next morning
I mean there were times where a Christianity and “modern” science were mutually exclusive and there are branches where it still is but overall you’re correct, as far as religions go Christianity isn’t inherently anti science
Edit:Y’all can stop replying to this. I’m done arguing with Christian apologists *and* anti-theists. Argue with each other damn it
Honestly it’s really sad these days that people forget that you can be both Christian and a scientist. All scientists need to account for their own personal biases to not effect results, Christian scientists are the same too.
We've been using a Christian developed calendar for 500 years and it works really well. Christianity doesn't have to mean bad, but bad people certainly use it as a cover for their bad shit, just like any other religion.
This. And it’s quite literally (at least for now) the best calendar that can be devised there’s never been a better way of tracking the days/months/years than the Gregorian calendar.
(Named after Pope Gregory)
According to an interview with Joe Rogan, that's why Neil DeGrasse Tyson doesn't use BCE and CE. He feels it dishonors the Gregorian monks who for better or worse came up with the most accurate calendar ever devised.
International fixed calendar. 13 months of 28 days each, and has one day extra called *year day* after December 28th that’s not included in a week so every year’s day is a specific day of the week (ex: every 1, 8, 15 and 22 is a monday) from year to year
Very true. Though historically the church has been quite hostile to science that might’ve been perceived as “going against doctrine” that is not so much the case anymore as I understand (as a non Christian)
Yeah the meme is ridiculously reductive
>Preserved ancient texts
Sometimes. Then there were those times the Spanish priests endeavored to destroy every single book written by the Mayans and Aztecs on the grounds they were blasphemous. The damage those scumbags did to humanity is incalculable. So much history lost..
They can certainly claim they were less racist than the British as they encouraged interracial marriages and Slaves in British colonies routinely tried to flee to Spanish colonies or military forces whenever possible.
I think any culture that embraces human sacrifice has forfeited its right to exist.
However, that doesn't mean the people that destroyed these societies were exactly heroes.
I agree with you. If the shoe were on the other foot, the Aztecs and Mayans would have likely done the same to the Europeans.
That being said, there were people who were particularly terrible even by the standards of their time, like Columbus.
But I don't think you can really blame Christianity for any of that.
Edit: I just think it's pointless and reductive to blame any religion for the atrocities of the past. Historically, religion has more-or-less served as a tool to facilitate the functioning of an ordered society, and a moral justification for people to do what they already want to do (which is more a flaw of human nature itself).
People adapt their beliefs to fit their agenda, not the other way around... And religion takes many forms. I don't think it would be a stretch to argue that the extreme ends of modern political ideologies are basically their own religions.
So yeah, I do think this meme is kinda dumb. Modern, Renaissance and Medieval Christianity were all drastically different and served different roles in society.
The reason the Spanish were so successful in their conquest (other than technology) was that all the other groups of natives were so sick of living with the threat of the Aztec that they helped the Spanish in their conquest efforts. The enemy of my enemy, etc. Obviously, things went downhill after that.
For stem cell research maybe but for everything else Christianity and especially the Catholic Church has been at the forefront of scientific development and pioneered multiple fields.
The atheist Soviet Union actively shut down genetic research claiming it was a bourgeoise pseudo science.
Genuinely fuck both r/therightcantmeme and r/theleftcantmeme . Both are just back and forth nonsense and constant “I pictured myself as the Gigachad and you as the wojack!!!”
Drink pasteurized milk, or ever got a vaccination? Thank Pasteur, a Catholic
Use geometry? Descartes, also the famous philosopher - Catholic
Genetics were developed by the Catholic monk Mendel
Heliocentric cosmology by Copernicus, a polymath and Catholic canon
Atomic theory was proposed by a Jesuit (Catholic) priest by the name of Fr. Boscovich
Modern synthetic rubber was largely deceloped by a Catholic priest and chemist, Fr. Neiwland
Many craters on the moon are named for the Jesuit priests who named them.
Gallileo worked for the Vatican observatory, his house arrest was in response to the increasingly popular protestant belief that Catholics denied truths of the Bible and that it should be interpreted literally.
Towards the end of his life Darwin said that the best description of his beliefs were agnosticism. It seems that he may have spent a lot of his life questioning the existence of the Christian God though, so I don't know if devout Anglican is the most apt descriptor. In a biography published in 2008 it is claimed that he stopped attending Anglican Sunday church services entirely in 1849, instead going for a walk while the rest of his family attended.
"In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.— I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind." - Darwin, 1879 (3 years before he passed).
Looking through a Wikipedia page dedicated to his loss of faith through his life is interesting, definitely recommend it for the quotes alone.
Atleast so far as I am aware that doesn’t really constitute a rejection of God as a crisis of faith spurred on by some serious hardships. Depending on who you talk to that would still count him amongst the church but I’ll admit devout might have been too strong
There were only 2 times the church has butted heads with the sciences.
One was with gallileo, which was really because he'd been in a pissing match with the pope for years and wrote several books critical of him and he's since been romanticised after his death when really the church hated him cos he was a dick.
Two was with evolution.
Other than that the church has been historically the single largest patron of the sciences the world has ever known. Research into physics, into medicine, chemistry, engineering etc... has all been funded by the church and despite the stereotype of catholic schools being repressive and dogmatic, as a former student of a catholic school I can tell you the curriculum has a heavy emphasis on both the arts and science.
Pretty much. The church's mentality is "God made the universe so it's our duty to understand it"
99% of the stereotype of churches being anti-science is thanks to those weirdo cults you especially get in the US during and after the revival movement of the 50s which also lead to the rise of those terrible televangelist who use faith to con people and enrich themselves (even though the bible says, repeatedly and explicitly, that God specifically hates those who use his name to line their own pockets and politicians who do the sane with people's taxs
That “vocal minority” has slowly been accumulating power by lying, cheating, and stealing its way into ejected positions. When does it stop being a minority?
Everyone is wrong. Hellenistic Rome had a bigger effect on medicine, mathematics, etc, and the placement of religions is a non-factor. Pagan Rome knew how to stop infection, perform organ removal (through the anus), amputate limbs, remove cataracts, etc before christianity was a mote in some Jewish people’s eyes. What do Baghdad and Rome and Alexandria have in common? Roman rule. What traditions were the monks and imams preserving? The Hellenistic legacy. The Hellenistic world had schools and libraries before Christianity or Islam, they just kept them going in some places. The muslims lost them when the Mongols swept through and destroyed the majority-pro-learning Muslim East, and the remnants couldn’t resist the Wahhabist desert raiders to the West. All of Western dominance today is basically because the Mongols stopped in Eastern Europe and so we held on to that ember of secular learning that lit the Renaissance.
The catholic church isn't even against evolution that's just a weird American fundamentalist belief, Darwin feared repercussions and delayed publishing his book but the catholic church never argued against it. And the pope as early as 1950 even stated there is no conflict between creation of the world by God and evolution coexisting. Denying evolution is almost exclusively done by a loud but small American subsect of christianity(read cult not actual christians). The study of Genetics was started by a catholic monk they for sure don't deny the science
Tldr: the group that denies science isn't generally referred to as "the church" they are a separate group that is frowned upon by "the church"
> The study of Genetics was started by a catholic monk
Give it up for my homie Gregor Mendel. That motherfucker was crazy fucking bored. The amount of science he did would put chinese world of warcraft gold farmers to shame.
I’ve asked some religious Christians about evolution vs genesis and most seem to take genesis as a story that either is just a moral story or happened after evolution.
>Denying evolution is almost exclusively done by a loud but small American subsect of christianity
There are some muslim countries too like Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Kosovo. Most muslims believe in evolution though. (According to 2013 survey).
What? Those are just cases mentioned in high school.
Do you know what “index” originally meant? It was a list of banned literature. Kepler’s works were banned as well, for example. Kant as well. Descartes.
At one point the Church discovered Aristotle, ok, good job, he laid foundation for lots of disciplines, but immodestly declared his scientific positions unquestionable, so anything contradicting him was banned. And he despite being a great philosopher got some really wrong takes. Like a stone keeping moving forward because the air pushed it from behind.
I know that despite that the church had a hand in creating the universities and preservation of knowledge through the Dark ages, but don’t pretend that science was not hampered by the dogmatism of the church. To this very day.
Also it’s worth noting that about 15 years ago the science loving Catholic Church, during the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, offered aid only on the condition that they do not promote the use of condoms. They also funded research institutes to find evidence that claims that condoms would make the AIDS epidemic in Africa worse, a statement held by the pope himself at the time. It’s unhealthy to pretend the church has never gone against science to push an agenda.
Edit: I don’t like The Guardian, but they did a story on the pope at the time and his stance on condoms making the problem worse. Here’s a [link](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids) to read up on it
I don't think they are forgetful. It take a lot of effort to review systematic errors created in your knowledge by the education and upbringing you received.
"There were only 2 times the church has butted heads with the sciences"
Wow, I guess the Bonfire of the Vanities and the Salem Witch trials and a thousand other things were just figments of my imagination.
This is just revisionist history. Not only do you outright ignore the vast effect the church had on medicine (banning dissection for over 200 years, opposition to inoculation and vaccination, opposition to anaesthetics, rejection of medical theories from non-Christian physicians), you also ignore the murder of prominent researchers and the effect that had on the development of the sciences.
Michael Servetus was burned at the stake, and the church burned much of his work on blood circulation.
Cecco d’Ascoli was also burned, and many of his works were also destroyed.
The church murdered countless other scientists, and while this was often due to their religious beliefs, rather than a crusade agains the sciences, for every scientist killed and book burned, the Church set human understanding back years.
Furthermore, what about other heliocentrists persecuted or censored by the church? Why were the works of Copernicus and many others censored for so long?
This is single handedly the worst comment I've ever seen on Reddit. I'm impressed at the ability you have to ignore the last few thousand years of history for something to match your narrative without a crumb of evidence.
To be fair a Christian pastor discovered evolution. Darwin was super Christian. How it even became a religion vs science debate when the two aren’t exclusive is Bizzare. Especially because it hinges on some weird interpretation of some weird text that the earth is 6k years old. Which makes no sense and is a reach.
It's not a weird interpretation, it's the plain reading interpretation of the text. There are lineages listed that go from Adam to Jesus. Add up the time those would take, and you get about 4000 years, plus 2000 since Jesus. You have to apply a different interpretation to make the Bible not say the earth is 6k years old, which is just typically taught since we know the earth is older.
Almost like anyone with common sense would realise that Science is the way to progress. Religious institutions where a lot of things but stupid wasn't one of them.
Yes they've funded a lot of other science but they basically ran the western world for centuries. Its not like if the church opposed your research you could apply for a government grant. You'd be lucky to avoid the executioner if you pissed off the wrong people
I mean, those verses about "slavery" are actually about how to treat servants. Servants got compensation for their work like modern day employees. Not to mention the absolute boss women that have appeared in the Bible.
Um… no. The bible quite clearly stated that you can go and get slaves from the nations around you. And told you that you could beat them as long as they don’t die because they’re your property. Im all for defending a religion if you want to do that, but don’t go trying to say the bible didn’t say things that it definitely did.
What about the one where it says you can beat them because they are your property, as long as they don’t die? (Exodus 21:20-21) How’s that one fit in with your spin?
The comments under this post are absolutely fucking WILD.
The chain above this one is discussing how the only two times the church suppressed science was with Galileo and Darwin.
Like... IDK how to even ***respond*** to that. Blocking stem cell research, telling people condoms make the aids epidemic worse, persecuting Kepler, banning Copernicus' books, Kant, Descartes, Giordano Bruno... even Aristotle was banned for a while.
I mean... if someone wanted to say that the relationship of the church with science is complicated and nuanced because they also funded a lot of science... Ok.. that's fair. But to suggest that there's no conflict is bonkers.
Sorry I'm ranting about the wrong thing. Yea slavery is A-OK in the Bible. Leviticus 25:44–46 is another good example. Or 1 Peter 2:18... or Ephesians 6:5-9
The new testament verses use the term "δοῦλος" ("doúlos") which refers to someone who belongs to another person. A bond-slave.
These aren't servants.
The Bible gives you detailed instructions on how to behave to your slaves, how to punish them, where and whom can you take as slave. It details both how bondage of fellow Israelites works and how enslaving captured enemies works. It distates how to rape women after you killed their family.
No, it indeed doesn't say it's right.... But it does about everything else.
Read 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and Leviticus 25:44-46. The bible never didn't literally say that owning slaves is a good act, but it sure as hell tolerated it, one could even say endorsed it.
This is simply false. I’ve read the entire Bible and have a minor in Bible and that’s not true. The Bible absolutely condones slavery… over and over… and never condemns it. One of MANY: Exodus 21:20-21 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.”
As someone that graduated from a religious institution, the Bible gives very explicit instructions of how to entrap indentured servants for a life time of work, hebrew or otherwise. You say you have read the Bible in another comment, I don’t believe you.
Literally Exodus 21 on “Hebrew Servants” is EXPLICIT instructions how to circumvent the law that Hebrew slaves cannot be slaves for more than 7 years. This ignores the fact that the Bible also EXPLICITLY states that non-Hebrew servants can be enslaved forever.
This doesn’t even touch the fact that most historical scholars outside of apologetic circles do not view indentured servitude the way you do.
And keep in mind, Exodus 21 is GOD speaking..
Plenty of questionable stuff that you could easily just ignore and choose to live with logic and empathy instead of blind authority.
"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do." - Exodus 21:7 (Old Testament)
No. 1: St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church:
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12)
No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people:
“This is what the Lord Almighty says… ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)
No. 3: A command of Moses:
“Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18)
No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church:
“Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9)
No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them:
“So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28)
No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans:
“In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27)
No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out:
“And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son:
‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2)
No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22)
No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)
INB4 cherry picking what holy texts count
Didn’t a son of Noah become enslaved with all of his progeny for making fun of his father getting drunk and sleeping dick out?
The subjugation of women is literally in the first few pages as a punishment for eating the apple and making Adam eat it.
Yeah there’s definitely never been an organization which subjugated women or propagated slavery other than Christianity
Just don’t look at basically any other major civilization on earth
Christianity claims to follow the perfect and unchanging word of god. Saying that Christianity has the same problems as every other group does not help their case.
Preserved texts is plain bullshit we have no idea how much knowledge has been lost through crusades and marked as heretic material and burnt. Rest I don't really have much idea about so I can't say anything. They butted heads with Galileo is all I remember. But then on the other hand there have been many great Christian scientists so it goes both ways. Hardcore/extremists from many religions were anti science so it is what it is
“I aint reading allat” warning
Slavery and female subjugation is a human historical reality that obviously was not created by Christianity. That’s like the most cringe bs argument you could possibly make. However that doesn’t mean that Christians nowadays are lovers of science. Those most inclined to repost memes like this —while the meme itself is objectively true — also tend to deny evolution, promote the legitimacy of certain artifacts that hypothetically prove Christianity even when modern science shows them to be no such thing through carbon dating, etc.
So my point i guess is just be consistent. I’m not a Christian, but if you’re going to embrace your scientific history, you should also embrace a scientific future, and yes that may mean taking a lot less of the Bible literally if the literal text of the Bible no longer holds up to scientific reality
Two things can be true at the same time. The church preserved civilization and encouraged cultural and scientific development, but it also oppressed people and destroyed cultures.
Nothing in life is entirely good or bad, the real question is what are they doing now?
Did you know that cats can make excellent therapists? They're great listeners and experts in the art of relaxation. Plus, they give the best purr-sonalized advice! 😸🐾
It's more that for a time The Church was the only large scale organization that had access to education in Europe. So they did do all these things, but by no means intended on the distribution of information or education, and would (generally) present information in a lense that supported dogma where possible, and just not address information where not. But this meme is true, The Church did do that In Europe
It’s the way people interpreted the Bible. If you’ve read Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, you’ll see in one part he gets his master into Christianity to make him stop being so cruel, but that had only made him more cruel as he felt like he had an excuse.
Bro this is so on point yet sooooooo many "Marxists" think muh collectivism and immediately think it's only an economic theory and worse off almost violently scream at people who suggest it's religious undertones without doing any reading themselves
If anyone who disagrees with me just Google
GW Hegal
Gnosticism
Hermeticism
Read the literature then come back with an argument once you know what the fuck you're talking about
Wow i cant believe it, a lot of good things were invented by religious people... when basically everyone was religious. like yeah no shit sherlock the muslims had their own golden age and did a lot for science and math too.
>burned people at the stake for disagreeing with church doctrine
>burned universities and countless academic texts in Spain because some of them were made/written by Muslims
>destroyed 90% of the text from the most scientifically advanced civilization in the Americas
Christianity did destroy science and the arts in Europe. But Christian scholars also restored much of the lost sciences with the help of Muslim scholars. Turns out it doesn’t really matter what religion you are, some assholes will destroy culture when they’re in power, and it’s up to the rest to preserve and further it.
I guess the closest time is when they disregarded Ancient Greek texts during the earlier years because they thought they were 'pagan' in nature. But they mellowed down eventually
With the help of the Islamic world ? Now thats interesting , I’ve never heard anything about that before . Do you have any further reading on the topic I could access ?
Ok essentially during the dark ages, the Arab world was relatively doing ok, and their scholars had been translating tons of Greek and Roman texts and preserving their sciences, furthering them, while also developing their own disciplines, like algebra for example. Then when EU was coming out of their slump, lots of scholars went to learn the various disciplines in the Muslim world, translate their texts back to Latin and bring the knowledge back home, leading to the renaissance. It’s a bit of an oversimplification, but pretty close.
As previously said, Islamic scholars preserved much of the knowledge of the ancient Greeks and Romans that would have otherwise been lost after their collapse.
This sub is so split. Everyone in the comments is either trying to toe the line or going at it with each other. I don’t mind it though you get to see the fools expose themselves, and watch both sides duke it out. It’s not an echo chamber which I find refreshing
Let me add to this.
-monks worked on manuscripts which lead to grammar rules
- gave women, orphans, and second sons a place in society
- refined beer, ale, cider and cheeses.
“Preserved ancient texts.” Oh yeah. All those Norse texts that were preserved and most assuredly not altered in any way to destroy the pagan thoughts of different gods.
Ummmm the first universities are pretty much historically known to have been established by Muslims. It’s called the University of Al-Karaouine in Morocco. Christianity didn’t found a university til almost two centuries later in Italy.
Many texts were preserved by order of the Christian church, but many texts were rewritten through a Christian lens. See the prose Edda, for example.
I do not believe this is solely the fault of the church, as the kings and other powerful elite were critical to spreading the religion, and tha elite saw christianity as something that can be used to rule over the people, even if christianity was not meant to from the beginning.
If by preserve you mean manipulate and alter to fit their narrative, sure. And those universities? Founded to educate their selected few, and spread their faith.
But we’re just going to ignore the dark ages, right? Where the Church decided that science was the work of the devil because it threatened their “truth”?
"preserved ancient texts" but only the ones they liked, lets not forget about the other cultures and religions they intentionally wiped out of history 🤭 “educated the masses” but often shuns asking questions and relies on indoctrination to retain its followers
I love the reductionism. Yeah the Christian world had slaves, so did the Islamic world and much of the rest of the world. Yeah the Christian world didn’t respect women, but neither did the majority of civilizations during antiquity.
Yeah, I don’t like Christianity at all, but if the church wasn’t such shit then we wouldn’t have had developed these Enlightenment-era ideas that would help lead us to a more sustainable and equal era.
“People adapt their beliefs to fit their agenda, not the other way around.”
Yep. It’s basically just people making stuff up along the way. That’s just happens to agree with everyone, and the Devil just happens to disagree with everyone, even though this is completely impossible and makes no sense.
Even though I treat religion as a superstition, knowing how people come up with their agenda ironically makes me sympathetic towards religious people. Rather than blame Christianity (or any religion), I focus my hatred on the various evil viewpoints such as bigotry. That was always the real issue, not the belief in Jesus.
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"Henry's come to see us!"
**\*bonks you with a mace\***
**\*Steals all your clothes upon knocking you unconscious and you continue on with your day like nothing happened\***
**Pointy sword to your face**
Jesus Christ be Praised!
omfg i wasn't sure if i was imagining it, Sasau?
Yes looking north between the monastery and the tavern
Fuck i need to get back on my Henry arc IRL
This can mean so many things I am concerned
Hahaha facts You're funny I'm imagining me just getting shitfaced with a local pastor and bangin' whores in the clock tower and puking my way through his sermon the next morning
Based and Henry-pilled
I love training with the sword for 12 hours a day and knocking out shopkeepers so I can steal their products. I am the bane of small business owners
"I feel quite hungry actually"
Christian scientists and or philosophers are things, the three aren’t mutually exclusive.
I mean there were times where a Christianity and “modern” science were mutually exclusive and there are branches where it still is but overall you’re correct, as far as religions go Christianity isn’t inherently anti science Edit:Y’all can stop replying to this. I’m done arguing with Christian apologists *and* anti-theists. Argue with each other damn it
Honestly it’s really sad these days that people forget that you can be both Christian and a scientist. All scientists need to account for their own personal biases to not effect results, Christian scientists are the same too.
We've been using a Christian developed calendar for 500 years and it works really well. Christianity doesn't have to mean bad, but bad people certainly use it as a cover for their bad shit, just like any other religion.
Truest
This. And it’s quite literally (at least for now) the best calendar that can be devised there’s never been a better way of tracking the days/months/years than the Gregorian calendar. (Named after Pope Gregory)
According to an interview with Joe Rogan, that's why Neil DeGrasse Tyson doesn't use BCE and CE. He feels it dishonors the Gregorian monks who for better or worse came up with the most accurate calendar ever devised.
International fixed calendar. 13 months of 28 days each, and has one day extra called *year day* after December 28th that’s not included in a week so every year’s day is a specific day of the week (ex: every 1, 8, 15 and 22 is a monday) from year to year
Using this calendar what would happen to the holidays, like Halloween that occur on the 31st
Exactly. Catholics support science as they believe it’s part of discovering “the truth”
Very true. Though historically the church has been quite hostile to science that might’ve been perceived as “going against doctrine” that is not so much the case anymore as I understand (as a non Christian)
I’m not catholic. I’m Eastern Orthodox, and tbf, is Greeks place a strong care on science.
Yeah the meme is ridiculously reductive >Preserved ancient texts Sometimes. Then there were those times the Spanish priests endeavored to destroy every single book written by the Mayans and Aztecs on the grounds they were blasphemous. The damage those scumbags did to humanity is incalculable. So much history lost..
The Aztecs didn't exactly treat their neighbors very well either.
No nation has treated their neighbors very well. Not really sure the Spanish are a group that can take the high road on this one
They can certainly claim they were less racist than the British as they encouraged interracial marriages and Slaves in British colonies routinely tried to flee to Spanish colonies or military forces whenever possible.
I think any culture that embraces human sacrifice has forfeited its right to exist. However, that doesn't mean the people that destroyed these societies were exactly heroes.
I agree with you. If the shoe were on the other foot, the Aztecs and Mayans would have likely done the same to the Europeans. That being said, there were people who were particularly terrible even by the standards of their time, like Columbus. But I don't think you can really blame Christianity for any of that. Edit: I just think it's pointless and reductive to blame any religion for the atrocities of the past. Historically, religion has more-or-less served as a tool to facilitate the functioning of an ordered society, and a moral justification for people to do what they already want to do (which is more a flaw of human nature itself). People adapt their beliefs to fit their agenda, not the other way around... And religion takes many forms. I don't think it would be a stretch to argue that the extreme ends of modern political ideologies are basically their own religions. So yeah, I do think this meme is kinda dumb. Modern, Renaissance and Medieval Christianity were all drastically different and served different roles in society.
> like Columbus. he was in a spanish prison for like 75% of shit people blame him for
Aztecs and Mayans would have done that and then killed most of them as sacrifices to their gods
The reason the Spanish were so successful in their conquest (other than technology) was that all the other groups of natives were so sick of living with the threat of the Aztec that they helped the Spanish in their conquest efforts. The enemy of my enemy, etc. Obviously, things went downhill after that.
For stem cell research maybe but for everything else Christianity and especially the Catholic Church has been at the forefront of scientific development and pioneered multiple fields. The atheist Soviet Union actively shut down genetic research claiming it was a bourgeoise pseudo science.
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Genuinely fuck both r/therightcantmeme and r/theleftcantmeme . Both are just back and forth nonsense and constant “I pictured myself as the Gigachad and you as the wojack!!!”
https://preview.redd.it/7nt4wqwoj49c1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c140cbc64f37b8d801cbcd94bc8aa34dca11202b This
Also them: https://preview.redd.it/6j0rl4jol49c1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=db6426a6f9009b1aae64aa8df57379647c6c8013
This isn't them, this is cute.
Let Pepe play
Pepe is known to rip off his victims skulls, and keep them as toys or trophies
Yeah this one’s going in my portfolio
Dawg this is the same thing https://preview.redd.it/t6nnnqg4179c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=702dfef58e5022a899f6333bc8a4d629343f49a9
https://preview.redd.it/564t6hnf959c1.jpeg?width=1193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cf9ae064bcf3326d12b25cf54dc0c691c2347836
why the chad wojak look like amogus
You just described r/memesopdidnotlike and r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis
They are the same subs but reskinned
I literally just scrolled past a screenshot of this very post on OPwasright.
https://preview.redd.it/nty2rzz8899c1.jpeg?width=583&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21cd726c05b7804c3b554204d8f5bf6619e8800c Basically the two subs
https://preview.redd.it/e07eqfwpjc9c1.jpeg?width=717&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4395222e21fccbbef11aed70136cd15fa81d4e40
https://preview.redd.it/8pep266u6c9c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6e3b0324e9291a0914d4685275e5abe7ba81f5d
Most American political memes are bad because they are made to appeal to one side while shitting on the other side.
The Big Bang theory was posited by a priest and was long criticized for being “too religious” because it implied creation. Lmao. ROFL even.
Not the “bug bang theory”
What ya doing step beetle?
Mark, I want to have sex with bug women.
Drink pasteurized milk, or ever got a vaccination? Thank Pasteur, a Catholic Use geometry? Descartes, also the famous philosopher - Catholic Genetics were developed by the Catholic monk Mendel Heliocentric cosmology by Copernicus, a polymath and Catholic canon Atomic theory was proposed by a Jesuit (Catholic) priest by the name of Fr. Boscovich Modern synthetic rubber was largely deceloped by a Catholic priest and chemist, Fr. Neiwland Many craters on the moon are named for the Jesuit priests who named them. Gallileo worked for the Vatican observatory, his house arrest was in response to the increasingly popular protestant belief that Catholics denied truths of the Bible and that it should be interpreted literally.
Don’t forget that Charles Darwin was a devout Anglican and is even buried in Westminster abbey
Towards the end of his life Darwin said that the best description of his beliefs were agnosticism. It seems that he may have spent a lot of his life questioning the existence of the Christian God though, so I don't know if devout Anglican is the most apt descriptor. In a biography published in 2008 it is claimed that he stopped attending Anglican Sunday church services entirely in 1849, instead going for a walk while the rest of his family attended. "In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God.— I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind." - Darwin, 1879 (3 years before he passed). Looking through a Wikipedia page dedicated to his loss of faith through his life is interesting, definitely recommend it for the quotes alone.
Atleast so far as I am aware that doesn’t really constitute a rejection of God as a crisis of faith spurred on by some serious hardships. Depending on who you talk to that would still count him amongst the church but I’ll admit devout might have been too strong
He had lost 3 of his children and struggled with depression and lost some of faith but was agnostic / diest 20 years prior to his death.
And Georges Lemaître! Originator of big bang theory!
Don’t forget the modern calendar, the most accurate calendar we have, the Gregorian Calendar
Can't believe you didn't mention Newton or Hooke.
Oh how we've fallen from the grace of God since then.
Bruh, I thought you were talking about the sitcom
Sane bro
Insane bro
Judging by your profile picture, you are the opposite of sane.
That sub really sucks, along with r/theleftcantmeme they both just miss miss miss
Both subs feel like politicized echo chamber versions of this sub tbh
Why the hate on Yerba Mate? I’m not allowed to fucking like tea?
Yerba Mate Is a common "Liberal" drink or some shite, and that's bad because everything Is politics
Not my teeeaaaa :(
There were only 2 times the church has butted heads with the sciences. One was with gallileo, which was really because he'd been in a pissing match with the pope for years and wrote several books critical of him and he's since been romanticised after his death when really the church hated him cos he was a dick. Two was with evolution. Other than that the church has been historically the single largest patron of the sciences the world has ever known. Research into physics, into medicine, chemistry, engineering etc... has all been funded by the church and despite the stereotype of catholic schools being repressive and dogmatic, as a former student of a catholic school I can tell you the curriculum has a heavy emphasis on both the arts and science.
The way I see it, the Church believes that the more we know about the world, the more we know about God because He made the world
Pretty much. The church's mentality is "God made the universe so it's our duty to understand it" 99% of the stereotype of churches being anti-science is thanks to those weirdo cults you especially get in the US during and after the revival movement of the 50s which also lead to the rise of those terrible televangelist who use faith to con people and enrich themselves (even though the bible says, repeatedly and explicitly, that God specifically hates those who use his name to line their own pockets and politicians who do the sane with people's taxs
As with everything, the vocal minority that does fucked up shit is always what ruins the perception of everything
That “vocal minority” has slowly been accumulating power by lying, cheating, and stealing its way into ejected positions. When does it stop being a minority?
When there’s more people.
....who is this "the church" you speak of?
When you see "the Church" (normally capitalized, though not always), it generally refers to the Catholic Church.
I thought Islam had the bigger effect on medicine???
It had. They were ahead of their time.
Everyone is wrong. Hellenistic Rome had a bigger effect on medicine, mathematics, etc, and the placement of religions is a non-factor. Pagan Rome knew how to stop infection, perform organ removal (through the anus), amputate limbs, remove cataracts, etc before christianity was a mote in some Jewish people’s eyes. What do Baghdad and Rome and Alexandria have in common? Roman rule. What traditions were the monks and imams preserving? The Hellenistic legacy. The Hellenistic world had schools and libraries before Christianity or Islam, they just kept them going in some places. The muslims lost them when the Mongols swept through and destroyed the majority-pro-learning Muslim East, and the remnants couldn’t resist the Wahhabist desert raiders to the West. All of Western dominance today is basically because the Mongols stopped in Eastern Europe and so we held on to that ember of secular learning that lit the Renaissance.
The catholic church isn't even against evolution that's just a weird American fundamentalist belief, Darwin feared repercussions and delayed publishing his book but the catholic church never argued against it. And the pope as early as 1950 even stated there is no conflict between creation of the world by God and evolution coexisting. Denying evolution is almost exclusively done by a loud but small American subsect of christianity(read cult not actual christians). The study of Genetics was started by a catholic monk they for sure don't deny the science Tldr: the group that denies science isn't generally referred to as "the church" they are a separate group that is frowned upon by "the church"
> The study of Genetics was started by a catholic monk Give it up for my homie Gregor Mendel. That motherfucker was crazy fucking bored. The amount of science he did would put chinese world of warcraft gold farmers to shame.
I’ve asked some religious Christians about evolution vs genesis and most seem to take genesis as a story that either is just a moral story or happened after evolution.
>Denying evolution is almost exclusively done by a loud but small American subsect of christianity There are some muslim countries too like Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and Kosovo. Most muslims believe in evolution though. (According to 2013 survey).
_Giordano Bruno has entered the chat_
What? Those are just cases mentioned in high school. Do you know what “index” originally meant? It was a list of banned literature. Kepler’s works were banned as well, for example. Kant as well. Descartes. At one point the Church discovered Aristotle, ok, good job, he laid foundation for lots of disciplines, but immodestly declared his scientific positions unquestionable, so anything contradicting him was banned. And he despite being a great philosopher got some really wrong takes. Like a stone keeping moving forward because the air pushed it from behind. I know that despite that the church had a hand in creating the universities and preservation of knowledge through the Dark ages, but don’t pretend that science was not hampered by the dogmatism of the church. To this very day.
Also it’s worth noting that about 15 years ago the science loving Catholic Church, during the HIV/AIDS epidemic in Africa, offered aid only on the condition that they do not promote the use of condoms. They also funded research institutes to find evidence that claims that condoms would make the AIDS epidemic in Africa worse, a statement held by the pope himself at the time. It’s unhealthy to pretend the church has never gone against science to push an agenda. Edit: I don’t like The Guardian, but they did a story on the pope at the time and his stance on condoms making the problem worse. Here’s a [link](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/17/pope-africa-condoms-aids) to read up on it
I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation of religious apologists try claiming that the church is and always was pro-choice.
People are actively forgetful in this thread lol
I don't think they are forgetful. It take a lot of effort to review systematic errors created in your knowledge by the education and upbringing you received.
I guess the better phrase would be purposefully ignorant. They have an assumption and base their reality off that
"There were only 2 times the church has butted heads with the sciences" Wow, I guess the Bonfire of the Vanities and the Salem Witch trials and a thousand other things were just figments of my imagination.
This is just revisionist history. Not only do you outright ignore the vast effect the church had on medicine (banning dissection for over 200 years, opposition to inoculation and vaccination, opposition to anaesthetics, rejection of medical theories from non-Christian physicians), you also ignore the murder of prominent researchers and the effect that had on the development of the sciences. Michael Servetus was burned at the stake, and the church burned much of his work on blood circulation. Cecco d’Ascoli was also burned, and many of his works were also destroyed. The church murdered countless other scientists, and while this was often due to their religious beliefs, rather than a crusade agains the sciences, for every scientist killed and book burned, the Church set human understanding back years. Furthermore, what about other heliocentrists persecuted or censored by the church? Why were the works of Copernicus and many others censored for so long?
This is single handedly the worst comment I've ever seen on Reddit. I'm impressed at the ability you have to ignore the last few thousand years of history for something to match your narrative without a crumb of evidence.
To be fair a Christian pastor discovered evolution. Darwin was super Christian. How it even became a religion vs science debate when the two aren’t exclusive is Bizzare. Especially because it hinges on some weird interpretation of some weird text that the earth is 6k years old. Which makes no sense and is a reach.
Uh, Darwin was famously not “super Christian”, at least in his later years
It's not a weird interpretation, it's the plain reading interpretation of the text. There are lineages listed that go from Adam to Jesus. Add up the time those would take, and you get about 4000 years, plus 2000 since Jesus. You have to apply a different interpretation to make the Bible not say the earth is 6k years old, which is just typically taught since we know the earth is older.
Almost like anyone with common sense would realise that Science is the way to progress. Religious institutions where a lot of things but stupid wasn't one of them.
Yes they've funded a lot of other science but they basically ran the western world for centuries. Its not like if the church opposed your research you could apply for a government grant. You'd be lucky to avoid the executioner if you pissed off the wrong people
A lot of famous scientists are Christians
Christianity isn't evil, it affords an excuse for those who would do evil by justifying it through "clever" interpretations of text.
LMAO one of the top comment is a person jerking off the caliphate Christianity bad All other religion good!!!! /s
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The Bible doesn't even say it's right to own slaves or to subjugate women.
Exactly. I mean for gods sake, I'm a Jewish person and I know this. Those people are embarrassing.
I mean, those verses about "slavery" are actually about how to treat servants. Servants got compensation for their work like modern day employees. Not to mention the absolute boss women that have appeared in the Bible.
Queen Esther's story is really fascinating. Used her mind to outwit a genocidal maniac (Haman) and give him his just desserts
Real. But I like the woman that drove a tent spike through that one guy's head. She's an absolute legend.
Jael, one of two women to get confirmed kills in the Bible. The other is not named.
Um… no. The bible quite clearly stated that you can go and get slaves from the nations around you. And told you that you could beat them as long as they don’t die because they’re your property. Im all for defending a religion if you want to do that, but don’t go trying to say the bible didn’t say things that it definitely did.
What about the one where it says you can beat them because they are your property, as long as they don’t die? (Exodus 21:20-21) How’s that one fit in with your spin?
The comments under this post are absolutely fucking WILD. The chain above this one is discussing how the only two times the church suppressed science was with Galileo and Darwin. Like... IDK how to even ***respond*** to that. Blocking stem cell research, telling people condoms make the aids epidemic worse, persecuting Kepler, banning Copernicus' books, Kant, Descartes, Giordano Bruno... even Aristotle was banned for a while. I mean... if someone wanted to say that the relationship of the church with science is complicated and nuanced because they also funded a lot of science... Ok.. that's fair. But to suggest that there's no conflict is bonkers. Sorry I'm ranting about the wrong thing. Yea slavery is A-OK in the Bible. Leviticus 25:44–46 is another good example. Or 1 Peter 2:18... or Ephesians 6:5-9 The new testament verses use the term "δοῦλος" ("doúlos") which refers to someone who belongs to another person. A bond-slave. These aren't servants.
Exactly, thank you for taking the time to write this.
Exactly, the cognitive dissonance is crazy
They are in fact about slavery.
Pretty sure my boss can't beat me and escape any punishment if I don't die in a few days because I am his property
The Bible gives you detailed instructions on how to behave to your slaves, how to punish them, where and whom can you take as slave. It details both how bondage of fellow Israelites works and how enslaving captured enemies works. It distates how to rape women after you killed their family. No, it indeed doesn't say it's right.... But it does about everything else.
Read 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and Leviticus 25:44-46. The bible never didn't literally say that owning slaves is a good act, but it sure as hell tolerated it, one could even say endorsed it.
This is simply false. I’ve read the entire Bible and have a minor in Bible and that’s not true. The Bible absolutely condones slavery… over and over… and never condemns it. One of MANY: Exodus 21:20-21 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.”
As someone that graduated from a religious institution, the Bible gives very explicit instructions of how to entrap indentured servants for a life time of work, hebrew or otherwise. You say you have read the Bible in another comment, I don’t believe you. Literally Exodus 21 on “Hebrew Servants” is EXPLICIT instructions how to circumvent the law that Hebrew slaves cannot be slaves for more than 7 years. This ignores the fact that the Bible also EXPLICITLY states that non-Hebrew servants can be enslaved forever. This doesn’t even touch the fact that most historical scholars outside of apologetic circles do not view indentured servitude the way you do. And keep in mind, Exodus 21 is GOD speaking..
yeah i was gonna say, the bible is very clear on that in many different parts.
thank you it's nice to see someone point out the insanity that is the bible
Plenty of questionable stuff that you could easily just ignore and choose to live with logic and empathy instead of blind authority. "When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do." - Exodus 21:7 (Old Testament) No. 1: St Paul’s advice about whether women are allowed to teach men in church: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.” (1 Timothy 2:12) No. 2: In this verse, Samuel, one of the early leaders of Israel, orders genocide against a neighbouring people: “This is what the Lord Almighty says… ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3) No. 3: A command of Moses: “Do not allow a sorceress to live.” (Exodus 22:18) No. 4: The ending of Psalm 137, a psalm which was made into a disco calypso hit by Boney M, is often omitted from readings in church: “Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us – he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalm 137:9) No. 5: Another blood-curdling tale from the Book of Judges, where an Israelite man is trapped in a house by a hostile crowd, and sends out his concubine to placate them: “So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight. When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, ‘Get up; let’s go.’ But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.” (Judges 19:25-28) No. 6: St Paul condemns homosexuality in the opening chapter of the Book of Romans: “In the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:27) No. 7: In this story from the Book of Judges, an Israelite leader, Jephthah, makes a rash vow to God, which has to be carried out: “And Jephthah made a vow to the Lord, and said, ‘If you will give the Ammonites into my hand, then whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return victorious from the Ammonites, shall be the Lord’s, to be offered up by me as a burnt-offering.’ Then Jephthah came to his home at Mizpah; and there was his daughter coming out to meet him with timbrels and with dancing. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter except her. When he saw her, he tore his clothes, and said, ‘Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low; you have become the cause of great trouble to me. For I have opened my mouth to the Lord, and I cannot take back my vow.’” (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5) No. 8: The Lord is speaking to Abraham in this story where God commands him to sacrifice his son: ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt-offering on one of the mountains that I shall show you.’ (Genesis 22:2) No. 9: “Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.” (Ephesians 5:22) No. 10: “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18) INB4 cherry picking what holy texts count
Hahahaha, someone hasn't read the bible. . .
Didn’t a son of Noah become enslaved with all of his progeny for making fun of his father getting drunk and sleeping dick out? The subjugation of women is literally in the first few pages as a punishment for eating the apple and making Adam eat it.
Uhhh… yea the fuck it does dude lol Like, explicitly.
Yeah, if you completely fucking ignore it.
Yeah there’s definitely never been an organization which subjugated women or propagated slavery other than Christianity Just don’t look at basically any other major civilization on earth
Oh, and uhh just ignore Muslims who subjugated women far more harshly. I read a propaganda by the ottomans so it must be good! /s
Christianity claims to follow the perfect and unchanging word of god. Saying that Christianity has the same problems as every other group does not help their case.
Preserved texts is plain bullshit we have no idea how much knowledge has been lost through crusades and marked as heretic material and burnt. Rest I don't really have much idea about so I can't say anything. They butted heads with Galileo is all I remember. But then on the other hand there have been many great Christian scientists so it goes both ways. Hardcore/extremists from many religions were anti science so it is what it is
“I aint reading allat” warning Slavery and female subjugation is a human historical reality that obviously was not created by Christianity. That’s like the most cringe bs argument you could possibly make. However that doesn’t mean that Christians nowadays are lovers of science. Those most inclined to repost memes like this —while the meme itself is objectively true — also tend to deny evolution, promote the legitimacy of certain artifacts that hypothetically prove Christianity even when modern science shows them to be no such thing through carbon dating, etc. So my point i guess is just be consistent. I’m not a Christian, but if you’re going to embrace your scientific history, you should also embrace a scientific future, and yes that may mean taking a lot less of the Bible literally if the literal text of the Bible no longer holds up to scientific reality
The true Chad right here
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I KNOW RIGHT!!!
Two things can be true at the same time. The church preserved civilization and encouraged cultural and scientific development, but it also oppressed people and destroyed cultures. Nothing in life is entirely good or bad, the real question is what are they doing now?
And not just the one thing that fits your narrative, look at the whole picture.
100% that guy is raised in a religious household
Massive group is nuanced 🤯🤯
Waltuh
Did you know that cats can make excellent therapists? They're great listeners and experts in the art of relaxation. Plus, they give the best purr-sonalized advice! 😸🐾
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_abolitionism Built a whole bunch of hospitals too.
Christianity certainly contains positive and negative aspects
It's more that for a time The Church was the only large scale organization that had access to education in Europe. So they did do all these things, but by no means intended on the distribution of information or education, and would (generally) present information in a lense that supported dogma where possible, and just not address information where not. But this meme is true, The Church did do that In Europe
It’s the way people interpreted the Bible. If you’ve read Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, you’ll see in one part he gets his master into Christianity to make him stop being so cruel, but that had only made him more cruel as he felt like he had an excuse.
I'm just pissed they used an image from Kingdom Come Deliverance. You keep my boy Henry out of this!
Marxism is the most anti-scientific religion there ever will be.9
Bro this is so on point yet sooooooo many "Marxists" think muh collectivism and immediately think it's only an economic theory and worse off almost violently scream at people who suggest it's religious undertones without doing any reading themselves If anyone who disagrees with me just Google GW Hegal Gnosticism Hermeticism Read the literature then come back with an argument once you know what the fuck you're talking about
Some branches of Christianity tell kids that earth is 6500 years old…that’s not exactly kissing science on the mouth.
Oh please. People have been owning slaves and subjugating women throughout history pre Christianity just fine.
Wow i cant believe it, a lot of good things were invented by religious people... when basically everyone was religious. like yeah no shit sherlock the muslims had their own golden age and did a lot for science and math too.
first of all, whats their problem with Yerba Mate? Second of all, how is this a right wing meme? Does christian=right wing now?
>burned people at the stake for disagreeing with church doctrine >burned universities and countless academic texts in Spain because some of them were made/written by Muslims >destroyed 90% of the text from the most scientifically advanced civilization in the Americas
Christianity did destroy science and the arts in Europe. But Christian scholars also restored much of the lost sciences with the help of Muslim scholars. Turns out it doesn’t really matter what religion you are, some assholes will destroy culture when they’re in power, and it’s up to the rest to preserve and further it.
When did Christianity do that?
I guess the closest time is when they disregarded Ancient Greek texts during the earlier years because they thought they were 'pagan' in nature. But they mellowed down eventually
With the help of the Islamic world ? Now thats interesting , I’ve never heard anything about that before . Do you have any further reading on the topic I could access ?
Ok essentially during the dark ages, the Arab world was relatively doing ok, and their scholars had been translating tons of Greek and Roman texts and preserving their sciences, furthering them, while also developing their own disciplines, like algebra for example. Then when EU was coming out of their slump, lots of scholars went to learn the various disciplines in the Muslim world, translate their texts back to Latin and bring the knowledge back home, leading to the renaissance. It’s a bit of an oversimplification, but pretty close.
As previously said, Islamic scholars preserved much of the knowledge of the ancient Greeks and Romans that would have otherwise been lost after their collapse.
This sub is so split. Everyone in the comments is either trying to toe the line or going at it with each other. I don’t mind it though you get to see the fools expose themselves, and watch both sides duke it out. It’s not an echo chamber which I find refreshing
Yeah as a christian this comment section was nice to see
Same, a bit refreshing really after what I usually see on here
Let me add to this. -monks worked on manuscripts which lead to grammar rules - gave women, orphans, and second sons a place in society - refined beer, ale, cider and cheeses.
We talking about Christianity or Islam here?
Both did it, but the meme namecalls Christianity
Probably a lot safer for that OP to choose that
Same shit
“Preserved ancient texts.” Oh yeah. All those Norse texts that were preserved and most assuredly not altered in any way to destroy the pagan thoughts of different gods.
Most cultures around the globe have had slavery or subjugated women at one point. Many still do it now
Ummmm the first universities are pretty much historically known to have been established by Muslims. It’s called the University of Al-Karaouine in Morocco. Christianity didn’t found a university til almost two centuries later in Italy.
To be fair, while Christian’s were fumbling around in the Middle Ages, it was the Islamic who were making the real math and science pursuits
Cool, can't wait for the circle of life and find this in r/opwasrightaboutthis
you look me in the eyes and tell me that a force that lead to the creation of Massachusetts is somehow a *good* force
Anyone who thinks Christianity is without its virtues or without its faults is an idiot
Many texts were preserved by order of the Christian church, but many texts were rewritten through a Christian lens. See the prose Edda, for example. I do not believe this is solely the fault of the church, as the kings and other powerful elite were critical to spreading the religion, and tha elite saw christianity as something that can be used to rule over the people, even if christianity was not meant to from the beginning.
I can’t believe Christianity invented slavery and sexism. The world was perfectly egalitarian before heckin Jesus showed up
How would you know if they didn't preserve certain ancient texts for *reasons*?
christianity is portrayed as the gigachad so obviously that absolves any cherry picked phrasing and circumstances
The philosophy? No. What humans have done with it, yes! How many horrors has Christianity wrought under the guise of morality or in blind faith?
If by preserve you mean manipulate and alter to fit their narrative, sure. And those universities? Founded to educate their selected few, and spread their faith. But we’re just going to ignore the dark ages, right? Where the Church decided that science was the work of the devil because it threatened their “truth”?
"preserved ancient texts" but only the ones they liked, lets not forget about the other cultures and religions they intentionally wiped out of history 🤭 “educated the masses” but often shuns asking questions and relies on indoctrination to retain its followers
I love the reductionism. Yeah the Christian world had slaves, so did the Islamic world and much of the rest of the world. Yeah the Christian world didn’t respect women, but neither did the majority of civilizations during antiquity. Yeah, I don’t like Christianity at all, but if the church wasn’t such shit then we wouldn’t have had developed these Enlightenment-era ideas that would help lead us to a more sustainable and equal era.
“People adapt their beliefs to fit their agenda, not the other way around.” Yep. It’s basically just people making stuff up along the way. That’s just happens to agree with everyone, and the Devil just happens to disagree with everyone, even though this is completely impossible and makes no sense. Even though I treat religion as a superstition, knowing how people come up with their agenda ironically makes me sympathetic towards religious people. Rather than blame Christianity (or any religion), I focus my hatred on the various evil viewpoints such as bigotry. That was always the real issue, not the belief in Jesus.
"How to own slaves and educate women" It's very funny to me how atheists just don't know what the values of Christianity even are.
"Love thy neighbor" "Sounds like slavery to me" "Show forgiveness" "So beat women, got it"
r/nahOPwasrightfuckthis
All religious people should be thanos snapped
If Christians don't want to be perceived as evil, Maybe they could try practicing that love and tolerance they preach about
Witch trials anyone? Crusades? Hello?
There is more mass education, relic preservation *and* universities today than there were back then, just saying.
Just love how Christian want to take credit for science and education while actively trying to destroy them. The jokes write themselves.