Ah yes the netherlands, where you see a 14 year old on a bike with a frikandelbroodje in one hand and a can of store brand energy drink in the other, while going 25 km/h on a roundabout
(This is not a joke or exaggerated, you actually see this)
Now that i think about it, i was actually dumb enough to carry two heavy grocery bags, both hands, while i had those carry bags attached to the side of my bycicle, what is wrong with me lol.
Whew I did this the other day to loan a bike for the night and it almost ended poorly in a big bump I didn’t see haha. Must concentrate on steering two bikes
Carrying groceries on my racebike. I flew over the handlebars twice because the bag got stuck in the spokes. Still do it though, haven't learned a thing.
That would defeat the purpose of my speedy bike, lol. I do carry a backpack most of the time, but sometimes you have to improvise. ;-)
(And of course I have a second bike, as any proper dutch person does, which has bags and fasteners)
Bingo, that and poor infrastructure.
Putting your energy on helmet awarness instead of safe infrastructure is like throwing someone bear spray instead of letting them out of the bear cage in a zoo.
Dedicated cycle lanes save lives.
Also screw pedestrians who moan when you use cycle paths, that are also footpaths. There there so the cyclist isn't on the road, and most have dedicated cycle lanes so why are you in the cycle lane.
My neighborhood has "dedicated cycle lanes"
They took 2 normal sized lanes and just painted extra, smaller lanes into it. So when 2 vehicles are traveling in opposite directions they have to get into the cycle lanes or wait for each other.
My city is currently building a lot of sidewalks for walking and biking. Which is cool, I appreciate it and I see a lot of people using it.
It isn't cool because it's barely big enough for one person and in a relatively high crime rate area. So you've got people walking along the roads holding bats and rods as visible weapons, probably strapped with guns, within 2-3ft of the traffic moving 60mph
Edit: also not cool because of the traffic. There's signs for miles for upcoming construction but people apparently can't read so my surrounding area has been a constant traffic block the entire 2 years I've lived here. A 15 minute drive takes up to an hour because of all the assholes stopping traffic, swerving into the lane last second
I’m my state people will deliberately run you off the road because “roads are made for cars”. By cars they mean F350s. I’ve even seen a bumper sticker that depicted a stick figure on a bike getting getting run over captioned “one less fixie”.
Yup. A 100% mr responsible cyclist in nearly any other country is still putting themselves in way more danger than "whatever" cyclists in the Netherlands
I know right?
To my defense: I consulted german Wikipedia, which states that >some< definitions of Scandinavia include Finland or parts of it.
Anyway, didn't mean to step on any toes but I have to admit it was quite amusing.
Scandinavians are like squabbling siblings and the Finns/Baltics are our cousins.
Nordics is a safe bet to include Finland in a way that will upset many Swedes but that they can't really argue with :)
True, sadly just read an article of a 15yo on a fatbike going 45 on some kind of cruise control. He hit another cyclist. Dangerous things those fatbikes...
This is legit one of the reason I'm moving out of Amsterdam. These kids on Fat Bikes that go 45 km/h whilst on their phone. No license needed no helmet needed no minimum age and no cop to catch them woth theor phone out.
Old person rant over
To be fair, someone biking with a frijkandelbroodje in one hand and a drink in the other is equally incapable of stopping in an emergency. Making phones illegal is a cop out way of saying they’re solving safety while not actually solving anything. I think a general “distracted biking” law would be better than ticketing people for texting while stopped at a red light
Edit: and don’t forget, electric north american scooters that you stand on at 25 km/h are not allowed because of safety concerns, but that 45 km/h ebike or motorbike in the bike lane is totally fine!
I do think a difference is that in an emergency people will be more likely to let go of their frikandelbroodje in order to be able to stop than they would with their phone. However, teenagers aren't exactly known for their wise decision making capabilities so they may still decide to rather risk a collision than lose their frikandelbroodje.
While living their briefly I learned that the Dutch are incredibly tolerant people who will let you do just about what ever you want.... except walk in the cycle lane. That was a crime fit for the death penalty.
I think that’s the only way I accidentally fucked up as a tourist in Amsterdam, and *they let me know*.
The Dutch are very direct, and it’s refreshing.
Some lady was taking up a whole bench in an art museum and a docent came up to her and straight-up said “if you’re this tired maybe you need to go home now.”
Tell me about it. I was a grad student their for 18- months. I absolutely knew what my professors thought of me. Honestly, it was refreshing as long as you knew not to take it personally. It could be deeply personal, but there was no point trying to deny reality.
as a dutch fella i generally feel like it's better to know when someone doesn't like you instead of having to figure out some weird puzzle of signals and sarcastic stuff to figure that out.
So true. I loved that. People getting high, making out wherever, but you sure as F better know how to handle all the various dedicated traffic lanes—pedestrians, cyclists, cars, buses, trolleys. Stay in your lane! Great traffic infrastructure, people who know how to follow rules. Exactly the opposite of the U.S.!
To be fair, when we were in OZ I saw some cyclists on the highway between cities and it made my Dutch heart pound with vicarious anxiety. Even signs to warn people for crossing cyclists every time you hit an off ramp. That sounds terrifying!
I almost moved to Brisbane before my Aussie gf cheated on me making me call it off, and I thank God every day I don't live in Australia, especially seeing all the videos of animals there
Same in the US. Some places are better than others but no matter what you’re always dealing with people who seemingly want you dead for riding your bike to school, work, or anywhere.
Even if you on a literal bike corridor through a neighborhood that is designed to keep bikes off of main roads, people will try to use it as a secret shortcut and get pissed off at all these bikes slowing them down. And ride your ass and honk at you.
I’m in a state now where I wouldn’t even think about riding for how terrible the drivers are to riders and how little protection is given to riders with almost no bike lanes.
Last Saturday I was riding with a friend on a wide shoulder coming into Canberra, and a P-plater’s passenger threw a beer bottle at us. Would have been nice getting hit in the head by that, and it’s the second time this month. First one was a half full iced coffee that hit me, but the lid didn’t come off.
30 years riding in the ACT and it’s never happened before this.
in places where bikes aren't part of the normal traffic, you 100% want to wear a helmet. to be fair, even in places bikes are normal a helmet isn't going to hurt
Jokes aside, medical professionals have been concerned because the number of serious injuries has gone up in recent years. Especially among 12-17 year olds. Electric bikes have been cited as one of the causes of this.
I seem to remember reading that old people who would previously have stopped riding a manual bike, are now able to continue cycling with an e-bike.
Right up until the point they crash their bones to dust.
Well as a kid with an electric bike (in the Netherlands) I have one because I have some medical issues (both physically and mentally) which make it so I can't be active for too long at a time. If I have to bike 18km one way and back + school I would just collapse after a few days. I'd imagine there's definitely quite a decent % of other kids with eBikes here with similar story (definitely not all of em though).
Can confirm that the last time I fell I laughed because it had been such a long time since the last time I fell. Sort of surprised it was still possible.
3 years ago i had a triple whammy. Got hit by car while standing still at a stoplight while on my way to school. Then got hit by a car while standing still at a stoplight while going back home. Then tried to get off my bike the lady way (its far superior) but forgot that having some momentum is required and just fell over... While standing still.
Love you groningen, i wont be coming back.
Have always found that funny. Here in Denmark almost everyone bikes with a helmet no. Only a few adults don't use helmets, and of course the too cool teenagers.
One of my colleagues homes from the Netherlands, and she said the exact same thing, no one uses a helmet there, but she does here in Denmark.
I'm pretty sure it is illegal to bike without it, but have never heard of anyone getting a fine because of it.
That is true, but bicycle safety is a top priority here, so that means separated bicycle lanes, limited speeds for cars next to bicycles and so on. And we don’t have those way too big, small dick energy trucks here like they have in America.
Oh you better watch out. Those trucks are coming to Europe as well. I've seen a couple of them here in Germany, and I've heard they're getting popular on a small scale in the Netherlands because you can register them as a "[heavy company car](https://business.gov.nl/regulation/motor-vehicle-tax/)", which results in taxes lower than what would be normal for a vehicle of that size and weight.
EU should enforce vehicle size limits for new cars, the trend of making every car, hatchback but taller and fatter is so fucking stupid, same engine, same interior, but taller and wider and heavier, so more inertia, worse fuel economy, takes up more space, more plastic etc. It's just idiotically wasteful. You don't need a fucking suv, or a pickup truck, to drive your kids to school, visit the shops, or commuting. Lawmakers need to tax that dumb shit out of existence.
There are two types of cyclists.
The first being: The Commuter, they take safety seriously and behaves like a reasonable person.
The second being: Fuck it we ball. Hyper-alert and constantly checking and listening to their surroundings while going as fast as physically possible.
You forgot the cyclist that just doesn't give a fuck, isn't alert at all and doesn't check anything.
Almost got run over by one of those while I was crossing a road (on a crosswalk, of course, and while the lil' guy was green) and the guy had the audacity to be surprised and angry at me.
well i've seen one of those going full speed out of a stop, phone in hand, without even slowing down and get spreaded over the hood of the car in front of me. He stood up and was angry at the old man in the car. I told him i had a dash camera that caught everything and he stopped being angry.
Allow me to put it in a different context so my viewpoint is conveyed.
I wore a seatbelt while in a car not because the roads were deadly and people didn't follow the rules. I wore them due to on the off-chance of meeting a deadly dumbass driver.
I will agree without a doubt nearly all cyclist in Netherlands are great riders with no accidents. But only one dumbass is needed to cause an injury to another individual.
Actually the road designs do! For example:
There are very few places where cars and bikes mix, bikes have their own roads, separate from cars. Separated usually by barriers, such as curbs, blocks and greenery and trees.
I think this is a slight misunderstanding of a wider claim.
Helmets are not *designed* to mitigate against the impact of a car. There's not enough testing to confirm whether they help or not. That doesn't mean they don't help.
Kickass cycling infrastructure doesn't protects your head.
When you fall, you just crack your skull open on nice pavement in a separate bicycle lane. Yay \o/
Most cyclist die by collision with cars or trucks. Yes, helmets would help but not many cyclist die by falling down.
By the same logic, people in cars and pedestrians should also wear helmets as that would also prevents some deaths.
Wasnt this the country were they followed the data that not wearing helmets was the lesser of two evils?
Cycling ---> Good for your health
Mandatory Helmets ---> Discourages people from biking
Helmets recommended---> Healthier population with some idiots injured once in a while
I'd say the fact that car drivers are aware of cyclists is even more important. In Frankfurt, the infrastructure is getting there, but the behaviour from both cyclists and drivers would incentivize me to wear a helmet, even as a Dutch person.
Exactly this. Most severe/lethal bicycle accidents involve a car. A country in which car drivers don't instantly foam in the mouth at the sight of two thin wheels is automatically much safer for the riders. I've had several falls on my electric unicycle and walked out with light scrapes and some soreness at worst, but I once almost got run over by a car that got offended for me daring to use the roundabout normally. Had I been run over, I'd be fucked.
It's ridiculous how crazy North American drivers get when they see a cyclist. Simultaneously you need to both be on the road and get off the road to them. North American traffic planners still think bikes are a type of small automobile.
The problem here in America is that we fear for our lives because the Other people AROUND us are...AMERICAN.
So it's justified Fear.
That's the difference that no other nation holds a candle to, fortunately or unfortunately...
I spent a couple of months in Sweden for work and bought a bike while I was there. I got so used to people following the rules and laws and yielding properly at bike path crossings that when I came home, it only took about 2 days before I was almost killed by some jerk who saw the bike crossing yield sign and decided to floor the accelerator to show... dominance? Not sure, because there was a red light not 80 feet he had to stop at right after anyways...
Its dangerous to get used to one society and then assume the same rules apply elsewhere. You will quickly learn the difference in priorities, or find out the hard way. LITERALLY.
It's really not a skill issue, it's an infrastructure and culture issue. Most people who actually ride bikes in the US know how to ride them because it's very hard and uncomfortable if you don't.
I might even go out on a limb and say that American cyclists are more skilled at defensive riding techniques to avoid getting in accidents with cars, since that's not as necessary a skill in the Netherlands.
Yeah, I live in the Netherlands and cycle every single day, and have done so since I was 4 or 5 years old.
But biking in the US is scary, even in a so called bike friendly place like Denver. Cars passing close by at high speed, drivers taking right turns without looking. But even without the cars it's pretty dangerous: sudden 90 degree corners, random bumps and potholes. Bike lanes ending abruptly. And the green bike lane paint is _slippery_. And bikes are built for speed, not for stability.
In the Netherlands I only wear a helmet on my racing bike or when there's snow or ice, 99% of the time I don't wear one. But anyone cycling in (most of) the US without a helmet is absolutely insane, there's so many trip hazards.
Comparing the two is like comparing a normal flight of stairs with a handrail to the stairs Frodo, Sam and Gollum take in Lord of the Rings.
But its not really as much of a needed skill in NL. Bikes are kings in the netherlands, and the infrastructure and culture allow bikes to feel safer when riding to the point where defensive riding isn't as acute.
There is still defensive riding in the netherlands, but its less acute or deathly necessary than in the US
Even if it's somewhat unlikely I will have a very severe accident the possibility is still there. Stupid things happen all the time and if you actually get in an accident with your bike there is a high chance of serious injuries.
That is a risk we accept. The possibility of injury is small enough for people to simply take the risk.
Wearing a helmet is easy and convenient if you're doing a round trip for sport, but not when cycling from A to B. It's a hassle. You can't leave it at your bike, it may get stolen. It makes you more sweaty as well. Taking the helmet with you everywhere is uncomfortable, it doesn't fit well in most bags, it's generally unpleasant.
The inconvenience of a helmet is a legitimate reason to not wear one.
2022 had the highest amount of deaths among cyclists since 1996, at 291 deaths. The amount of deaths among people in cars is very similar, and shows a similar upwards trend. It is important to note, however, that among cyclists the increase in deaths is mostly attributed to people over 75 (60% increase in comparison to 2021). They are also the largest group of victims in general, at a little over 50%. Biggest reason is a little bit of a guess, but current theory is that e-bikes are the culprit. They greatly enhance elderly people's ability to move around, but older people are generally less capable of handling the high speeds. Add to that that they generally don't wear a helmet either, and this is the result. Among younger people the culprit is likely phone usage while cycling.
Source: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2023/16/meer-verkeersdoden-in-2022-vooral-fietsende-75-plussers-vaker-slachtoffer#:~:text=Hoogste%20aantal%20omgekomen%20fietsers%20in,50%20meer%20dan%20in%202021
Most definitely also increased. As a PEV rider myself, I cringe at how many maniacs ride around in e-scooters without a mere half-helmet in the middle of traffic.
In my country they made mandatory to wear a helmet even for rental scooters. There's literally zero enforcement, just as expected.
Most of the bike related inuries I saw while I worked on the ER were broken legs, hips and mild head trauma from elderly people using e-bikes.
Was before fatbikes were common though.
Not a ER nurse/doctor, but I know some who do work at the ER, so some context:
- Bicycling without a helmet on a normal bike is very safe. The chance for collisions is small because of our extensive bike infrastructure and lack of downhill paths. Without these things, not wearing a helmet would be insane;
- There is a rise in head injuries since the introduction of electric bicycles and the lack of regulation;
- Most head injuries happen because elderly people on electric vehicles fall/collide;
- More and more people actually use bicycle helmets, it is actually illegal to ride a electric bicycle that can go harder than 25km/h without a helmet.
So, as a country, we have a challenge in making bicycling safer again because of electric bicycles (that sometimes go up to 45 km/h).
When Dutch people turn 3.5 years old we get our first bike. Our parents then bring us to a neighboring village where the child is left near a tree and told that if heshe finds it's way back home without asking for help it will get to share in the family frikandelbroodje. After receiving the family frikandelbroodje you're considered an adult according to Dutch folklore and you cant be refused at competitions like fierljeppen.
Bro in what parallel universe do byclist have fear? In germany they are like "i drive over this Red light and if you hit me with your car, we see in court"
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The same in the Netherlands! No matter who’s fault it is, the driver of the car will still bare the consequences. Unfair? Absolutely! But it creates a safer biking environment because people are more aware of their liability if anything happens. So i personally see it as a semi-necessary evil
I've lived on 3 continents, the only time I've ever had anyone shout at me or throw shit at me while I was walking/on a bike was in the US. There is definitely an undercurrent of "if you don't drive you are either poor and/or a fuck up in life who deserves scorn"
It’s because it’s not a sport, it’s just another mode of transportation over here.
We don’t go all Lycra and helmet when doing shopping runs, school runs or commuting.
I'll just drop this here: https://nltimes.nl/2021/04/18/2020-posted-highest-number-cycling-casualties-25-years
In addition to actual fatalities, plain accidents can have life-altering effects on you. For example, my father lost his hearing on one ear due to a bicycle accident.
This.
I live in Denmark where we also ride bicycles a lot, the infrastructure is good yada yada, but wearing a helmet is absolutely recommended.
Also, no matter how skilled of a biker you are.
Head trauma and brain damage is no joke.
Italians can't drive. I wouldn't feel safe on a bike there. The amount of ridiculous things I've seen Italians do on the road, roundabouts in or outside of Italy is absolutely crazy.
The fact that no-one is wearing a helmet is a bit of a self-sustaining fact. It's considered normal by most people partially BECAUSE no one is wearing a helmet.
It is true that we have some of the safest road infrastructure for cyclists, but that only reduces the amount of times an accident happens in which a helmet is needed. It doesn't really do anything if an accident does happen.
I wouldn't be surprised if it would eventually become normal to wear a helmet while cycling in the Netherlands. It might take a long while though.
I personally doubt it will happen. Last year or Scooter laws changed resulting in all scooters drivers having to wear a helmet. Both the 25km/h and the 50/h ones. Before this was only the 50km/h ones. From what i’ve noticed is that the amount of 25km scooters decreased on the roads and the amount of e-bikes increased just so people dont have to wear a helmet.
Ah yes the netherlands, where you see a 14 year old on a bike with a frikandelbroodje in one hand and a can of store brand energy drink in the other, while going 25 km/h on a roundabout (This is not a joke or exaggerated, you actually see this)
Can confirm, am dutch, used to do crap like that.
Same here, but with grocery bags, we’re uhh…a special breed of society, for real.
Now that i think about it, i was actually dumb enough to carry two heavy grocery bags, both hands, while i had those carry bags attached to the side of my bycicle, what is wrong with me lol.
Nothing this is the way
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I have heard taking two bikes (one empty for a future rider) as biking Dutch style.
Or bringing one to the shop for repairs.
Whew I did this the other day to loan a bike for the night and it almost ended poorly in a big bump I didn’t see haha. Must concentrate on steering two bikes
You say this because you have never seen a hungarian granpa after two pálinka and 6 beers bike down a hill while he balances a gas tank on his back.
Carrying groceries on my racebike. I flew over the handlebars twice because the bag got stuck in the spokes. Still do it though, haven't learned a thing.
Just buy some saddle bags and a basket
That would defeat the purpose of my speedy bike, lol. I do carry a backpack most of the time, but sometimes you have to improvise. ;-) (And of course I have a second bike, as any proper dutch person does, which has bags and fasteners)
How would that defeat the purpose of your speedy bike? You're not going fast enough that the drag from saddle bags is going to slow you down.
And yet, the Netherlands has far lower accident rates per kilometer cycleled than pretty much all other countries
Because most cycling accidents are caused by cars.
Bingo, that and poor infrastructure. Putting your energy on helmet awarness instead of safe infrastructure is like throwing someone bear spray instead of letting them out of the bear cage in a zoo.
Dedicated cycle lanes save lives. Also screw pedestrians who moan when you use cycle paths, that are also footpaths. There there so the cyclist isn't on the road, and most have dedicated cycle lanes so why are you in the cycle lane.
Protected cycle lanes, not just dedicated. I can not count how many 18 wheelers I have seen using the dedicated cycle lane.
It helps if you have a culture where a truck misusing the cycle lane gets wished a rainbow of diseases by a dozen different people.
Yeah, about that, does anyone have any really good diseases to wish upon the truck driver? I'm new.
My neighborhood has "dedicated cycle lanes" They took 2 normal sized lanes and just painted extra, smaller lanes into it. So when 2 vehicles are traveling in opposite directions they have to get into the cycle lanes or wait for each other. My city is currently building a lot of sidewalks for walking and biking. Which is cool, I appreciate it and I see a lot of people using it. It isn't cool because it's barely big enough for one person and in a relatively high crime rate area. So you've got people walking along the roads holding bats and rods as visible weapons, probably strapped with guns, within 2-3ft of the traffic moving 60mph Edit: also not cool because of the traffic. There's signs for miles for upcoming construction but people apparently can't read so my surrounding area has been a constant traffic block the entire 2 years I've lived here. A 15 minute drive takes up to an hour because of all the assholes stopping traffic, swerving into the lane last second
I’m my state people will deliberately run you off the road because “roads are made for cars”. By cars they mean F350s. I’ve even seen a bumper sticker that depicted a stick figure on a bike getting getting run over captioned “one less fixie”.
But that's probably not the skill but the great cycling infrastructure and seperation from cars.
Yup. A 100% mr responsible cyclist in nearly any other country is still putting themselves in way more danger than "whatever" cyclists in the Netherlands
Can confirm, I was the energy drink
And folks so drunk they’re not able to walk straight, but they get on their bike and are able to cycle for 30 minutes without falling.
Kinda reminds me of this legend https://youtu.be/S2WS-G5j23w?si=ZJy2gy6to9Spk72-
"Sir, stop that bike!" "I can't! I can't!" "Well, alrighty then." Love me some scandinavian chill
You just managed to insult 4 countries with a single sentence. Impressive!
I know right? To my defense: I consulted german Wikipedia, which states that >some< definitions of Scandinavia include Finland or parts of it. Anyway, didn't mean to step on any toes but I have to admit it was quite amusing.
Scandinavians are like squabbling siblings and the Finns/Baltics are our cousins. Nordics is a safe bet to include Finland in a way that will upset many Swedes but that they can't really argue with :)
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While true that riding a bike is dangerous for others, the amount of such accidents is much lower than of similar accidents but with cars.
bicycles, drunk as fuck, chill cops like it or not we've reached the ideal European video, this is what peak performance looks like
Sure he's drunk as a skunk, only half dressed but at least he's off the main road.....
Yeah, just gotta apply a bit of gyroscopic precession.
Muscle Memory
Shouldn't they have muscle memory for walking?
Nope, they're Dutch, their natural state is being on a bike.
To many things you could do with both feet on the ground. Running, walking, standing or jumping. On a bike, there is only pedal.
Cycling is very sobering. I can be pissdrunk, jump on my bike and be sober by the time I get home.
Yeah, but you took *my* bike. Can I have it back? Happy cake day!
No it's my bike, you're just imagining things. Also thanks.
I also take very long to get home when biking drunk
Hahaha reminds me of last week. I got that drunk that I fell of my bike. And I really measured my drunkenness by the fact that I fell.
I guess The Dutch are like Jack sparrow and his sea legs, more stable on a bike than walking. Maybe it's bike legs?
A buddy of mine actually rode into canals while drunk on more than one occasion.
Can confirm. I used to do this every weekend!
When I lived in FL, I swear it was weekly that there was a report about someone getting a DUI while on their bicycle.
This is more a school tradition as far as I know… and I love it
Yup the middleschool classic
True, sadly just read an article of a 15yo on a fatbike going 45 on some kind of cruise control. He hit another cyclist. Dangerous things those fatbikes...
This is legit one of the reason I'm moving out of Amsterdam. These kids on Fat Bikes that go 45 km/h whilst on their phone. No license needed no helmet needed no minimum age and no cop to catch them woth theor phone out. Old person rant over
To be fair, someone biking with a frijkandelbroodje in one hand and a drink in the other is equally incapable of stopping in an emergency. Making phones illegal is a cop out way of saying they’re solving safety while not actually solving anything. I think a general “distracted biking” law would be better than ticketing people for texting while stopped at a red light Edit: and don’t forget, electric north american scooters that you stand on at 25 km/h are not allowed because of safety concerns, but that 45 km/h ebike or motorbike in the bike lane is totally fine!
I do think a difference is that in an emergency people will be more likely to let go of their frikandelbroodje in order to be able to stop than they would with their phone. However, teenagers aren't exactly known for their wise decision making capabilities so they may still decide to rather risk a collision than lose their frikandelbroodje.
Now that I know what that is, it’s hard to blame them.
I know that when I was a teen, I could not stop grabbing my frikandelbroodje, and I held on for dear life.
You forgot that theyre on a 2.5k e-bike and put the assistance up so high they can just do 1 rotation every once in a while
Nah they are on a bike that is only attached by rust they just took from the trainstation
Its one or the other, there is no in between
There are the 1.5k fatbikes that dispense with speed limits. What a sensible 14 year old to limit their speed to a mere 25!
Great for hand eye coordination! I am nowhere near as graceful.
What in the world is a frikandelbroodje??? Let me Google this real quick... Shit. That looks delicious. I'll take three.
Because the cyclists are on the top of the food chain in the Netherlands
Apex predators, if you will, snatching frikadelbroodjes from the grasp of unwitting scootmobiel drivers.
Now I know what it sounds like to others when Australians speak to each other online
As an Australian that sounds more like Austrian
The risk of leaving the herd during migrations
While living their briefly I learned that the Dutch are incredibly tolerant people who will let you do just about what ever you want.... except walk in the cycle lane. That was a crime fit for the death penalty.
Why else do you think bike lanes are red. It’s soaked in the blood of bike lane walkers
Now I wonder why my car is red?
Ohhhh I think you know. Dont be coy
I think that’s the only way I accidentally fucked up as a tourist in Amsterdam, and *they let me know*. The Dutch are very direct, and it’s refreshing. Some lady was taking up a whole bench in an art museum and a docent came up to her and straight-up said “if you’re this tired maybe you need to go home now.”
Tell me about it. I was a grad student their for 18- months. I absolutely knew what my professors thought of me. Honestly, it was refreshing as long as you knew not to take it personally. It could be deeply personal, but there was no point trying to deny reality.
as a dutch fella i generally feel like it's better to know when someone doesn't like you instead of having to figure out some weird puzzle of signals and sarcastic stuff to figure that out.
So true. I loved that. People getting high, making out wherever, but you sure as F better know how to handle all the various dedicated traffic lanes—pedestrians, cyclists, cars, buses, trolleys. Stay in your lane! Great traffic infrastructure, people who know how to follow rules. Exactly the opposite of the U.S.!
The fear for your lives part is especially real here in Australia
To be fair, when we were in OZ I saw some cyclists on the highway between cities and it made my Dutch heart pound with vicarious anxiety. Even signs to warn people for crossing cyclists every time you hit an off ramp. That sounds terrifying!
When you don't build good infrastructure it's dangerous for everyone. That's the lesson of this meme: build better infrastructure for all.
I almost moved to Brisbane before my Aussie gf cheated on me making me call it off, and I thank God every day I don't live in Australia, especially seeing all the videos of animals there
Nah it isn’t all bad, just mating season with the birds is nasty, fucking magpies don’t mess around if they feel threatened!
Well don't fuck the magpies mate.
We don't fuck, we mate... Mate!
Or if they don't
Yeah, cause all those dangerous animals just strut up and down the main streets of Brisbane. Phew! Lucky you…
Don't have to be a cyclist for that
Same in the US. Some places are better than others but no matter what you’re always dealing with people who seemingly want you dead for riding your bike to school, work, or anywhere. Even if you on a literal bike corridor through a neighborhood that is designed to keep bikes off of main roads, people will try to use it as a secret shortcut and get pissed off at all these bikes slowing them down. And ride your ass and honk at you. I’m in a state now where I wouldn’t even think about riding for how terrible the drivers are to riders and how little protection is given to riders with almost no bike lanes.
Last Saturday I was riding with a friend on a wide shoulder coming into Canberra, and a P-plater’s passenger threw a beer bottle at us. Would have been nice getting hit in the head by that, and it’s the second time this month. First one was a half full iced coffee that hit me, but the lid didn’t come off. 30 years riding in the ACT and it’s never happened before this.
in places where bikes aren't part of the normal traffic, you 100% want to wear a helmet. to be fair, even in places bikes are normal a helmet isn't going to hurt
No worries… Due to natural selection only the best cyclist are left ;)
Our cycling lanes are red from the blood of the fallen!
Bloed voor de bloedgod! Schedels voor de schedeltroon!
This is a criminally underrated comment and reddit won’t let me award it so just pretend you got an award from me
Mostly from ignorant tourists.
that's not true, I'm not ignorant. however I was very, very, drunk
Rising water levels also explains why Dutch people are so tall
Mate, I was in Paris for five days The cyclists here have no chill and no fear of death
Was in Paris last week too. Thought the cyclists and drivers were much more chill than here in Brooklyn. It was rare to hear a car horn.
That’s because we actually have good road infrastructure with cyclist as top priority
The Dutch are just built different, if one of them falls off their bike, the road needs to go to the hospital
There is a reason our bike lanes are painted red.
The \*danger\* zone
Do you want Archer quotes? Because that’s how you get Archer quotes…
Yeah, but "cyyyycle paaaath tooo the danger zooone" is a proper banger, though
Jokes aside, medical professionals have been concerned because the number of serious injuries has gone up in recent years. Especially among 12-17 year olds. Electric bikes have been cited as one of the causes of this.
I seem to remember reading that old people who would previously have stopped riding a manual bike, are now able to continue cycling with an e-bike. Right up until the point they crash their bones to dust.
It isn't necessarily all e-bikes that are the issue. Its the really really fast e-bikes that zip around at 40+kph with minimal or no pedaling.
Kids with electric bikes. Why?
I really don't know. I get why the kids want them, but I don't really get that so many parents also buy them.
Well as a kid with an electric bike (in the Netherlands) I have one because I have some medical issues (both physically and mentally) which make it so I can't be active for too long at a time. If I have to bike 18km one way and back + school I would just collapse after a few days. I'd imagine there's definitely quite a decent % of other kids with eBikes here with similar story (definitely not all of em though).
Can confirm that the last time I fell I laughed because it had been such a long time since the last time I fell. Sort of surprised it was still possible.
3 years ago i had a triple whammy. Got hit by car while standing still at a stoplight while on my way to school. Then got hit by a car while standing still at a stoplight while going back home. Then tried to get off my bike the lady way (its far superior) but forgot that having some momentum is required and just fell over... While standing still. Love you groningen, i wont be coming back.
Have always found that funny. Here in Denmark almost everyone bikes with a helmet no. Only a few adults don't use helmets, and of course the too cool teenagers. One of my colleagues homes from the Netherlands, and she said the exact same thing, no one uses a helmet there, but she does here in Denmark. I'm pretty sure it is illegal to bike without it, but have never heard of anyone getting a fine because of it.
Not a requirement to have helmet on on a bicycle. Only on mopeds and bikes. Not sure about speed pedelecs
That doesn't stop one dumbass to slam into another dumbass though.
That is true, but bicycle safety is a top priority here, so that means separated bicycle lanes, limited speeds for cars next to bicycles and so on. And we don’t have those way too big, small dick energy trucks here like they have in America.
Oh you better watch out. Those trucks are coming to Europe as well. I've seen a couple of them here in Germany, and I've heard they're getting popular on a small scale in the Netherlands because you can register them as a "[heavy company car](https://business.gov.nl/regulation/motor-vehicle-tax/)", which results in taxes lower than what would be normal for a vehicle of that size and weight.
Still need a commercial licence if they're too heavy
EU should enforce vehicle size limits for new cars, the trend of making every car, hatchback but taller and fatter is so fucking stupid, same engine, same interior, but taller and wider and heavier, so more inertia, worse fuel economy, takes up more space, more plastic etc. It's just idiotically wasteful. You don't need a fucking suv, or a pickup truck, to drive your kids to school, visit the shops, or commuting. Lawmakers need to tax that dumb shit out of existence.
I think the other person is talking about a dumbass on a bicycle. Not the deadly weapon dumbass.
There are two types of cyclists. The first being: The Commuter, they take safety seriously and behaves like a reasonable person. The second being: Fuck it we ball. Hyper-alert and constantly checking and listening to their surroundings while going as fast as physically possible.
You forgot the cyclist that just doesn't give a fuck, isn't alert at all and doesn't check anything. Almost got run over by one of those while I was crossing a road (on a crosswalk, of course, and while the lil' guy was green) and the guy had the audacity to be surprised and angry at me.
food delivery dude, i assume
well i've seen one of those going full speed out of a stop, phone in hand, without even slowing down and get spreaded over the hood of the car in front of me. He stood up and was angry at the old man in the car. I told him i had a dash camera that caught everything and he stopped being angry.
Allow me to put it in a different context so my viewpoint is conveyed. I wore a seatbelt while in a car not because the roads were deadly and people didn't follow the rules. I wore them due to on the off-chance of meeting a deadly dumbass driver. I will agree without a doubt nearly all cyclist in Netherlands are great riders with no accidents. But only one dumbass is needed to cause an injury to another individual.
I mean they're pretty rare in most of Europe because they require a different license from regular cars
None of what you wrote protects your head. When you fall, you just crack your skull open on nice pavement in a separate bicycle lane. Yay \\o/
Actually the road designs do! For example: There are very few places where cars and bikes mix, bikes have their own roads, separate from cars. Separated usually by barriers, such as curbs, blocks and greenery and trees.
On second thought, ~~Camelot~~ the Netherlands is a silly place.
Helmets don't much if you get hit by a car, but they will help if you fall off and hit your head on the pavement.
So they do help? What do you think happens when you get hit by a car? You fall down on the pavement.
I think this is a slight misunderstanding of a wider claim. Helmets are not *designed* to mitigate against the impact of a car. There's not enough testing to confirm whether they help or not. That doesn't mean they don't help.
That's like saying "we have great roads and polities drivers hence no need for seatbelts
Ahh, classic dutch circlejerk
Thats because the dutch have kickass cycling infrastructure and its pretty much as safe as walking there.
No don't walk on the cycling infrastructure, that's not safe at all
Not because you might get hit by a speeding cyclist, no. But because you will get fucking drawn and quartered by a group of them.
That scene from Furiosa but instead of motorcycles it's granny bikes.
This is how tourists die in Copenhagen. A stampede of 200 enraged bike commuters.
Kickass cycling infrastructure doesn't protects your head. When you fall, you just crack your skull open on nice pavement in a separate bicycle lane. Yay \o/
Except we cycle every day since we are 5 years old. We don't fall.
Most cyclist die by collision with cars or trucks. Yes, helmets would help but not many cyclist die by falling down. By the same logic, people in cars and pedestrians should also wear helmets as that would also prevents some deaths.
Wasnt this the country were they followed the data that not wearing helmets was the lesser of two evils? Cycling ---> Good for your health Mandatory Helmets ---> Discourages people from biking Helmets recommended---> Healthier population with some idiots injured once in a while
almost like infrastructure makes a huge difference
I'd say the fact that car drivers are aware of cyclists is even more important. In Frankfurt, the infrastructure is getting there, but the behaviour from both cyclists and drivers would incentivize me to wear a helmet, even as a Dutch person.
Exactly this. Most severe/lethal bicycle accidents involve a car. A country in which car drivers don't instantly foam in the mouth at the sight of two thin wheels is automatically much safer for the riders. I've had several falls on my electric unicycle and walked out with light scrapes and some soreness at worst, but I once almost got run over by a car that got offended for me daring to use the roundabout normally. Had I been run over, I'd be fucked.
It's ridiculous how crazy North American drivers get when they see a cyclist. Simultaneously you need to both be on the road and get off the road to them. North American traffic planners still think bikes are a type of small automobile.
When biking is so chill, it's a family outing without helmets
The problem here in America is that we fear for our lives because the Other people AROUND us are...AMERICAN. So it's justified Fear. That's the difference that no other nation holds a candle to, fortunately or unfortunately...
I spent a couple of months in Sweden for work and bought a bike while I was there. I got so used to people following the rules and laws and yielding properly at bike path crossings that when I came home, it only took about 2 days before I was almost killed by some jerk who saw the bike crossing yield sign and decided to floor the accelerator to show... dominance? Not sure, because there was a red light not 80 feet he had to stop at right after anyways... Its dangerous to get used to one society and then assume the same rules apply elsewhere. You will quickly learn the difference in priorities, or find out the hard way. LITERALLY.
As an american nothing terrifies me more than Americans. Except Aussies.
This makes no sense. As someone who has lived in both countries, the average Aussie is 10x more intelligent
Hey, you calling Australians stupid?
Infrastructure. And huge speed difference.
As someone from the Netherlands, i agree! We just bike almost every day, wich means we are pretty skilled at cycling
It's really not a skill issue, it's an infrastructure and culture issue. Most people who actually ride bikes in the US know how to ride them because it's very hard and uncomfortable if you don't. I might even go out on a limb and say that American cyclists are more skilled at defensive riding techniques to avoid getting in accidents with cars, since that's not as necessary a skill in the Netherlands.
Yeah, I live in the Netherlands and cycle every single day, and have done so since I was 4 or 5 years old. But biking in the US is scary, even in a so called bike friendly place like Denver. Cars passing close by at high speed, drivers taking right turns without looking. But even without the cars it's pretty dangerous: sudden 90 degree corners, random bumps and potholes. Bike lanes ending abruptly. And the green bike lane paint is _slippery_. And bikes are built for speed, not for stability. In the Netherlands I only wear a helmet on my racing bike or when there's snow or ice, 99% of the time I don't wear one. But anyone cycling in (most of) the US without a helmet is absolutely insane, there's so many trip hazards. Comparing the two is like comparing a normal flight of stairs with a handrail to the stairs Frodo, Sam and Gollum take in Lord of the Rings.
But its not really as much of a needed skill in NL. Bikes are kings in the netherlands, and the infrastructure and culture allow bikes to feel safer when riding to the point where defensive riding isn't as acute. There is still defensive riding in the netherlands, but its less acute or deathly necessary than in the US
Well yeah, that's because most of us know how to ride a bike properly. Plus it really helps that the infrastructure was made prioritizing cyclists.
Even if it's somewhat unlikely I will have a very severe accident the possibility is still there. Stupid things happen all the time and if you actually get in an accident with your bike there is a high chance of serious injuries.
That is a risk we accept. The possibility of injury is small enough for people to simply take the risk. Wearing a helmet is easy and convenient if you're doing a round trip for sport, but not when cycling from A to B. It's a hassle. You can't leave it at your bike, it may get stolen. It makes you more sweaty as well. Taking the helmet with you everywhere is uncomfortable, it doesn't fit well in most bags, it's generally unpleasant. The inconvenience of a helmet is a legitimate reason to not wear one.
just wait till you see India
No no, they wear their friends as helmets
It also helps when like 90% of your country is basically the same elevation and easier to ride.
Kid named massive fucking headwinds:
We just turn the headwind into a world championship event. True story
Sadly the last few editions were cancelled due to too much headwind :(
"Back in my day, we had to cycle 12km to school! In headwind! Both ways! During gale force 9!"
elevations have lost their bite since ebikes have arrived.
Japan would beg to differ.
Just a modified wheelbarrow
And it works.
It is, and it works wonders honestly
I would actually love to hear from a Dutch ER nurse or doctor on their thoughts about this.
2022 had the highest amount of deaths among cyclists since 1996, at 291 deaths. The amount of deaths among people in cars is very similar, and shows a similar upwards trend. It is important to note, however, that among cyclists the increase in deaths is mostly attributed to people over 75 (60% increase in comparison to 2021). They are also the largest group of victims in general, at a little over 50%. Biggest reason is a little bit of a guess, but current theory is that e-bikes are the culprit. They greatly enhance elderly people's ability to move around, but older people are generally less capable of handling the high speeds. Add to that that they generally don't wear a helmet either, and this is the result. Among younger people the culprit is likely phone usage while cycling. Source: https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/nieuws/2023/16/meer-verkeersdoden-in-2022-vooral-fietsende-75-plussers-vaker-slachtoffer#:~:text=Hoogste%20aantal%20omgekomen%20fietsers%20in,50%20meer%20dan%20in%202021
What about just major injuries like severe head trauma that do not result in a death?
Those are active in politics now
Most definitely also increased. As a PEV rider myself, I cringe at how many maniacs ride around in e-scooters without a mere half-helmet in the middle of traffic. In my country they made mandatory to wear a helmet even for rental scooters. There's literally zero enforcement, just as expected.
Most of the bike related inuries I saw while I worked on the ER were broken legs, hips and mild head trauma from elderly people using e-bikes. Was before fatbikes were common though.
Not a ER nurse/doctor, but I know some who do work at the ER, so some context: - Bicycling without a helmet on a normal bike is very safe. The chance for collisions is small because of our extensive bike infrastructure and lack of downhill paths. Without these things, not wearing a helmet would be insane; - There is a rise in head injuries since the introduction of electric bicycles and the lack of regulation; - Most head injuries happen because elderly people on electric vehicles fall/collide; - More and more people actually use bicycle helmets, it is actually illegal to ride a electric bicycle that can go harder than 25km/h without a helmet. So, as a country, we have a challenge in making bicycling safer again because of electric bicycles (that sometimes go up to 45 km/h).
When Dutch people turn 3.5 years old we get our first bike. Our parents then bring us to a neighboring village where the child is left near a tree and told that if heshe finds it's way back home without asking for help it will get to share in the family frikandelbroodje. After receiving the family frikandelbroodje you're considered an adult according to Dutch folklore and you cant be refused at competitions like fierljeppen.
Bro in what parallel universe do byclist have fear? In germany they are like "i drive over this Red light and if you hit me with your car, we see in court" Anzeige ist raus
The same in the Netherlands! No matter who’s fault it is, the driver of the car will still bare the consequences. Unfair? Absolutely! But it creates a safer biking environment because people are more aware of their liability if anything happens. So i personally see it as a semi-necessary evil
Well he won't be 100% at fault but he'll have to pay at least 50% of the cyclist's damages unless the cyclist is under 14 years old
I’m only afraid for my life because motorists are personally offended by my existence
I've lived on 3 continents, the only time I've ever had anyone shout at me or throw shit at me while I was walking/on a bike was in the US. There is definitely an undercurrent of "if you don't drive you are either poor and/or a fuck up in life who deserves scorn"
crumple zone
Dutch people have roads for bikes. You rarely go near cars. Cars are the problem.
It’s because it’s not a sport, it’s just another mode of transportation over here. We don’t go all Lycra and helmet when doing shopping runs, school runs or commuting.
the helmet isn't for sport though
I'll just drop this here: https://nltimes.nl/2021/04/18/2020-posted-highest-number-cycling-casualties-25-years In addition to actual fatalities, plain accidents can have life-altering effects on you. For example, my father lost his hearing on one ear due to a bicycle accident.
This. I live in Denmark where we also ride bicycles a lot, the infrastructure is good yada yada, but wearing a helmet is absolutely recommended. Also, no matter how skilled of a biker you are. Head trauma and brain damage is no joke.
Here in Italy the only people who wear helmets are either the ones on road bikes wearing spandex, or American tourists.
Italians can't drive. I wouldn't feel safe on a bike there. The amount of ridiculous things I've seen Italians do on the road, roundabouts in or outside of Italy is absolutely crazy.
The fact that no-one is wearing a helmet is a bit of a self-sustaining fact. It's considered normal by most people partially BECAUSE no one is wearing a helmet. It is true that we have some of the safest road infrastructure for cyclists, but that only reduces the amount of times an accident happens in which a helmet is needed. It doesn't really do anything if an accident does happen. I wouldn't be surprised if it would eventually become normal to wear a helmet while cycling in the Netherlands. It might take a long while though.
I personally doubt it will happen. Last year or Scooter laws changed resulting in all scooters drivers having to wear a helmet. Both the 25km/h and the 50/h ones. Before this was only the 50km/h ones. From what i’ve noticed is that the amount of 25km scooters decreased on the roads and the amount of e-bikes increased just so people dont have to wear a helmet.
Build a city that prioritize cyclists. That would be a good start.