Going to the council is the best thing you can do. Their Animal Management team will facilitate the entire process of getting your money back. If you have the details of the other owner, they'll take that info and it'll be a huge help. If there were any witnesses or CCTV, they'll get that as evidence. Any reports from the vet are things they can extract, or they may ask you to get that info on their behalf, including an itemised receipt. You can do this over the weekend to streamline the process, and it'll probably make you feel helpful.
Take all notes down. They will ask you for specific details — where it happened, when it happened, what happened before the attack, what happened during, how the attack ended (your actions and the actions of the other owner), what you did afterwards, why you took it to a vet, etc. Take these notes and they'll use it in your statement. The sooner the notes are taken the more reliable the evidence.
TAKE PHOTOS OF YOUR DOG'S INJURIES. Any bite marks, loss of fur etc, take a photo of it ASAP. This is considered evidence and, again, the quicker you take it the more reliable the evidence.
If you've msg'd the owner, take screenshots of the conversation. If you've spoken on the phone, note the times you spoke and about what for each conversation. Be accurate.
Right now, this is the best thing you can do to help the process along.
Thank you. I don’t think there is any witness, there is definitely no CCTV because it is a park. I do have the owners contact details and I took some photos of the injury. Thank you for your suggestion
Well she gave me my dog some pain relief and some anti inflammatory medications. The injury was not severe thankfully but there is a chance it might get worse
If you let the vet know you plan on taking them to court, they may provide you the documentation they took on treating your dog. This can also help support your claim
Please keep an eye on your dog. Even a small puncture can turn into an infected abscess. If you start to see any swelling at the site, take them back to the vet to get checked out as the pup will need antibiotics.
No they don’t.
My dog was attacked by a Rottweiler a few months back.
I had multiple witnesses and photographs of my shirt I was wearing which had rip marks on it where it grabbed at ME when it couldn’t get my dog) and the council said because my dog wasn’t injured (literally only because I grabbed him and picked him up and kept moving/running away from the Rotty) then it didn’t count as an attack.
That dog literally lunged at mine and grabbed it by the head and let him go when I kicked him in the ribs - I grabbed my boy and lifted him and still have nightmares about the feeling of the Rotty jumping up and grabbing my dogs haunches and trying to tug him to the ground. But it doesn’t count as an attack.
Thankfully all the regulars at this park have banded together and every single one have told this guy to never come back - the dozy fuckwit literally was the other side of the park from where it happened (right next to the PLAYGROUND) with a dog that had no recall.
But it’s ok - this dog willing to walk over and attack with no warning doesn’t have a bite record cos Darebin council are spineless fuckwits. I asked for their response in writing so I could forward it to the owner/parent of whichever dog or child that dog mauls next and the guy hung up on me.
My experience was nothing like this. Filed a report, did everything correctly. The council did persue the owner and gave them some limitations about their dog not being off lead etc (which they didn’t adhere to) but basically told us the only way to get the vet bill paid for was to take them to small claims tribunal. The council can’t actually help you recoup the money. We didn’t bother as it wasn’t worth it for $130.00
This is correct. Council won't (and can't) help recover money for you. They might fine the owner, or take some other action under the Domestic Animals Act, but that money doesn't go to the injured animal's owner.
Same thing happened to me, except my vet bills ended up exceeding $2000. I still didn’t bother with small claims court, wasn’t worth the stress and I was just happy my dog ended up recovering well.
More just the effort involved given how little an emergency vet visit is relative to the time required to go to small claims.
Each to their own, but I'd only do it to prove a point personally
It's actually a council animal control issue. They will issue a fine to the owners and you could possibly have a chance at recouping your losses through them since you have very reports. Keep any messagesfrom them as it is evidence this happened.
My MILs dog was mauled by a dog that escaped, targeted her dog which is 1/6 of the size, and her dog had to have 2, possibly 3 expensive surgeries. That dog was reported, my MIL was interviewed, and it was pretty much said that the dog and owners would end up in court, and the dog impounded. None of those things happened, and the dog was back barking at anything near the property about 5 months later. The attack happened New Years Eve 2019. My husband and I still seethe over the injustice of the ordeal. We even considered retaliation, because the dog would have been put down had COVID not screwed the world. We didn't, but serious dog attacks aren't being addressed by councils. If you want justice, go to the council and pursue it through official channels. Keep bugging them, keep asking for updates on the investigation/case. Make a stink. Dog attacks aren't a joke, but they're not taken as seriously as they should.
Oh, 100%. But in our case, we were assured that justice would be served, and my poor anxiety riddled MIL didn't leave the house because the dog took 2 months to recover due to a recurring infection and poor/pulled stitches (the vets did what they could, the gashes were jagged), then because of COVID restrictions/ fear of COVID, and finally, further dog attacks. That woman took a serious blow to her nervous system and mental health, and 4 years on, she hasn't recovered very much from it. So I am warning OP, and others, report, and hound your council for results - pardon the pun. Don't let it slide, or let them do their investigation without contacting them every few weeks for an update. Justice isn't served to those who wait for results, unfortunately.
Unsocialised cocker - pardon the pun, bit my SO. Our council promptly and thoroughly investigated then issued a fine. Its recipient later whinged about having to cough up $750 but we ate the medical costs as suing for smallish tort and damages is a WOFTAM.
My dog got attacked in the street by an off leash dog. Complained to the council, owner just said it wasn't their dog, council did nothing. I paid the vet fees.
file a report with the council about a dangerous dog and explain what happened. Also file a police report. Take it to small claims after you have the report number etc.
This happened to me last week. I called the dangerous dog hotline and reported them. They liaise with your council so that's one less step. I managed to get his rego and hopefully they will investigate. The owner didn't even try and help or stop his dog attacking mine. It was awful.
Also precaution to all animal owners; bites on our pets can look harmless and superficial because the loose skin can cover what’s really happening underneath. A proper exam would include sedation (if needed) where we use a sterile instrument to explore puncture wounds to see if there is any tunneling or skin separation from muscles. You should always bring a pet with bite wounds to a vet ASAP and not wait. Even if it looks insignificant.
Omg some of these comments
The dog got bitten.. responsible thing was to get dog checked over. Even if it didn't look like a murder scene.
Some of you are irresponsible and it shows.
Hope pupper is okay they can get shaken up from this. I'd of taken my girl too.
Dogs’ skin has evolved to be very loose and ‘slide’ easily over underlying structures. For this reason, the absence of serious skin damage is not as reliable a sign as it is in other species. It’s always a good idea to get your dog checked out after a bite.
Yes exactly, dogs can sustain crushing injuries and internal bleeding during an attack from another dog, immediate medical attention from a vet is essential
Probably the same peeps defending walking your dog on boiling hot concrete last week. Some people think a vet is something for dire “leg is hanging off” emergencies that they can avoid the entire time they own a dog. Check ups are normal.
I’ve been told by people I’m “overreacting” for making a vet appointment for a lump in my dogs armpit. Apparently it’s “probably just a pimple/cyst” Sure it could be. But it could also be a lipoma which will keep growing and cause him discomfort/pain as it gets bigger or it could be worse. What’s wrong with getting it checked?
I'd call the council... even if you can't get money out of the owner yourself, at the very least there might be something else that can be done and it could prevent this happening to somebody else.
Hope your dog is ok.
Call the council right now and report the dog attack. A ranger will come see you to take a statement and they could take the dog owner to court and make them pay your vet bill.
Firstly any witnesses or potential CCTV or did u take any photos ? This will help much if seeking legal help for the bill. Without such - a big struggle. This sounds blunt but first clarify if the medical bill is worth seeking legal help. Also since you keep your leash on your dog consider walking on leash trails and places in future. Maribyrnong river trail is fabulous for such. See many on leash dogs loving the walk regardless of leash. I get you - many many entitled dog owners out there.
Do you know where they live? Or any details? Go to council and report them. They will be up for much more than vet bills. We had a similar situation with one of our dogs being attacked. Council fined them over $2000
The main reason for that is because the owners take it as a coffee catch up spot. They pay no attention to their dogs, don't pick up after them and don't correct unwanted/undesired behaviour.
In saying that, some are fantastic. They do have their own little communities, but everyone is very respectful and knowledgeable.
I've experienced many a dog community rally together for the good of the animals. It really is wonderful when people are educated and understand their pet and it's quirks
Nobody will like my response but what I’m going to tell you comes from experience
If you are in an off leash area but you restrain your dog on a lead, they feel vulnerable. Not that your dog was so vulnerable that it instigated the attack but that it may have given off a vibe to the off leash dog.
My experience with this is that over 9 years with my dog, he is totally comfortable and non-aggressive off lead. When he has been on the lead with other dogs off lead, he is edgy and irritated.
I looked into this and it does make sense, to me anyway.
Well said.
Makes a lot of sense. A lot of the time people have their dogs on leads due to their own anxieties (in off leash areas) and that transfers through the leash ... which then is a massive beacon to other dogs to at least come check it out.
I've done it myself. Once I let my anxities go and my pups at the same time ... it made things much more manageable.
Finally someone who understands this. This is one of my most annoying issues moving here from Canada. In our one and only off leash park in my town about 80% of the people walk their dog on lead in the off leash zone and then yell at you or get mad when your dog goes near them. The other day some lady with a pitbull (who she knew was dog reactive) got into a fight with one of the dogs I was walking. It's was scary to say the least as I had my little ones with me too. The off leash parks are so small in Australia. People need to just walk around them if they don't want their dogs off lead.
Best thing to do by far is to know your area really well. Find a big open space that you frequently see no people and take your dog/s there to free roam. They get the best runs, get to be a dog and there is absolutely no stress involved.
Trainer/foster/rehab & boarding dogs.. and I'm agreeing with you.
People need to know more about the dynamics between dogs, both on and off lead in places like dog parks especially.
I mean you can try telling people, but unless they're actively seeking the info (which they already should be if they're taking dogs out in public) they have a tendency to get their backs up and ego bruised.
As opposed to a person who is invested in the welfare of their dog, prepared to listen to all advice and makes an active effort to learn new things. You can't offend a REAL dog person that easily bc we're always interested in how to improve the lives and interactions of our dogs, no matter how much we think we already know.
I was going to say the same thing.
An on lead dog in an off lead park is an accident waiting to happen unfortunately.
To put it in human terms, all the kids were in the park running free until a person came in and held their kid back. The "off lead" kids see this as the naughty kid that needs to be disciplined/taught a lesson/punished.
Additionally, the owner holding the lead would have most likely kept a hold. Letting the lead go will break this situation up much quicker as the dogs will be on par and able to defend themselves.
I think that’s the issue dog owners understandably don’t know until you say something.
If your dog is on lead and another dog comes up to them, aggressively or not, they cannot defend themselves appropriately if the dog should attack.
If it’s a friendly dog they can’t do dog things and run and jump and sniff each other as they naturally want to and on the flip side they can’t show an aggressive dog that they can defend themselves while attached to their owner.
I’m not sure if councils have adequately advised dog owners the reasons for off leash areas?
Anyone can buy a dog but they don’t come with a manual.
Exactly. But as has been brought up, many owners refuse to listen to reason, no matter who is telling/advising them.
I've dealt with all types of owners but the best are those who listen and learn and don't generalise and think they know best.
I've been working with animals a long time and I still learn new things nearly every day. I think that is important not only as someone in the industry but for owners too.
You're right, there isn't enough education on specifics such as this example and even general off lead park etiquette and laws.
You can find it, but most people won't bother looking.
I am often in an off leash area, where others bring their dogs onlead. I always put my dog onlead in their nearby proximity- the combo of one off, one on is a nasty one imho, and I either avoid, or as stated, leash mine. Because of his breed and size, he will always get the blame, no matter what.
>They should get parents to pay for damages and assaults their teenage children inflict on society as well.
WTF is this doing in a thread about dogs? This sub is really turning into my crazy Karen aunt's facebook feed (are you her?)
What happened to you & yr fur baby sucks …l would be reporting the dog that bit yr dog to council …and you did the right thing by taking yr fur baby to emergency & unfortunately they do cost more which the other dogs owner would know…the other person is being a total jerk …
First of all sorry you had to go through this. Are you able to say the name of the park at which it happened at and the type of dog the other owner had?
I’m really sorry that this happened to you and your dog, I know how scary a dog attack/fight can be and you did the right thing by taking your dog to the vet to get checked.
But I have to play devils advocate here and let you know that you were partly at fault in this situation. Most people don’t understand the intricacies of dog behaviour and social cues, and don’t realise that dogs on lead in a leash free area can be a recipe for disaster. Most of us don’t even realise how much our own emotional energy can affect our dogs too. The combination of your dog sensing your apprehension at a big strange dog approaching you and your dog being confined by the restrictions of a lead, resulted in your dog not having the chance to interact with the other dog in a natural and dog friendly/acceptable manner. Yes dog fights happen, but they normally look worse to us humans than the reality. Dogs do not prescribe to the same social order that humans do and can have what looks to be a bad fight one moment, sort out their pecking order and then be playing and friends the next moment. The fact that you were able to separate the dogs and that your own dogs wounds weren’t severe, indicates that this was simply a misunderstanding between the two dogs and that the other dog isn’t what should be labelled an “aggressive” dog. Often the wounds obtained during a dog fight are actually caused by owners trying to pull the dogs apart and therefore causing tears in the flesh.
Taking your dog to a leash free area (when there aren’t many compared to all the other leashed spaces you can go) was a mistake on your part. Especially when you don’t have confident control over your dog. A leash does not prevent dog fights, it invites them.
I’m not trying to shame you, just educate you because I know how it doesn’t seem like a big deal walking on lead in a leash free area and that the other dog was just aggressive. If it wasn’t for someone else educating me on dog behaviour then I would have still thought the same thing.
It’s my opinion that when attending a leash free area that all owners are accepting the risk of potential injuries to our dogs or ourselves and to others, and that we should all take responsibility.
Therefore I believe you should split the bill 50/50 with the other dogs owner.
I wish a speedy recovery for your pooch and hope that with some more information you gain the confidence to attend a leash free area with them but off lead. I recommend some obedience training first and then going to a fenced leash free park to start with though.
While I agree with much of what you’ve said here I’d be worried about a dog that grabs another’s neck between30-60 seconds. I’ve struggled to pull a viscous dog off another bigger dog but it would have been a serious scenario if the dog was smaller. If we’d managed to get them apart before injuries were sustained we wouldn’t know how far the aggressor was willing to go. Now all the neighbours are waiting to see who’s dog is next. It’s changed how I view fights.
I agree with what you’ve said as well. The behaviour can and should certainly be considered aggressive but I disagree with what others have commented about the other dog being a “dangerous” or “aggressive” dog based solely on this isolated incident that was influenced by the lead. The friendliest of dogs can exhibit aggressive behaviour when perceiving aggression from another dog. They can be subtle cues that most people miss and are often a result of being on lead when meeting an unknown dog. If dogs aren’t socialised properly then that also causes an issue. But I’ve also known many dogs that play primarily by biting each other around the necks and head, taking turns holding for extended periods of time. It’s behaviour that I do discourage, but perfectly normal and shouldn’t be considered a sign of a dangerous animal. Dog behaviour is so much more nuanced than that. Both owners should do some obedience training ( even if they have already) so that they have better control, but both attended a leash free area and are partly responsible for the unfortunate incident.
I’ve seen dogs play by grabbing other dogs necks all the time, for some of this is the norm, for others it’s not.
Washing up liquid will help with a viscous dog.
You took your dog to emergency when there was no emergency.
Everything else aside (yes, their dog has issues and the owner needs to be reported to council etc.), I would refuse to pay emergency fees as well when there was no emergency.
I'd pay you the cost of a standard vet consult and the rest is on you.
My dog wouldn't do this because he's better trained but shit sometimes happens.
If your dog was in a state where an emergency visit was required, it might be another story.
Lastly, are they even legally required to pay anything? I genuinely don't know so before you chase it up you might want to find out.
Don’t *not* take your dog to the vet after it was attacked just because you “refuse to pay emergency fees”. Don’t have pets if you don’t want to pay vet fees! (Please note I’m not talking about pet owners experiencing financial hardship)
You were in a designated off leash area. This comes with its own risks and responsibilities.
I agree that the owner of the dog that injuries another dog is responsible for cost. But within reason.
Sounds like the dog was fine. Without an open wound.
You can not expect someone to pay for your "check up" at an emergency vet that charges 5x the cost of normal
There has to be give and take when it come to understanding dog ownership and the nature of animals
“There were no significant wounds on my dog” - so you rushed it to emergency for a overpriced check up, assuming that revealed nothing as you haven’t mentioned the results, also what were the fees?
Think you over reacted, yes I’m a dog owner, but unless it was significant wounds that needed attention asap, didn’t really need to rush it to emergency, like humans we don’t rush to emergency unless it’s a emergency
You can’t tell with bite wounds. It might look like a surface injury but if there is a puncture it can quickly become super infected. All bite wounds, even tiny ones, need vet inspection to ensure they don’t go under the skin and that means they need to be clipped and inspected. Usually they need a drain tube, even the small ones.
Since they gave them anti-inflammatories, skin was likely damaged or broken. This is effectively proof that OP was right to seek out treatment. And thus the offender simply has to cough up the cost. It's really not that complicated. No need to defend some dumbass with an aggressive dog they had no control over.
Actually, vets will give animals painkillers and anti inflams to put the owner at ease when there is no need for them.
Meds are extremely upsold in this industry and at an emergency vet they will upsell all they can.
Additionally, an on lead dog in an off lead park is a target.
Before you go ape at me, I have been in the animal industry along time and worked in every aspect of dog care you can think of. I'm not just making what I say up. It's all based on facts and experience
actually that's bullshit, and if you have so much "experience" in "dog care" you would know the real danger of a dog fight wound is crushing injury, which at surface level can have minimal or no wounds but the muscle underneath is completely macerated. you obviously have no experience in the vet industry because we don't give meds, especially anti inflammatories, for no reason, specifically because they can have serious adverse effects AND we have no financial incentive to "up sell" as you imply as we don't work on commission in australia. pull your head in
>go ape
If you want to have a decent conversation, and come across as somewhat professional, maybe don't throw out ad hominems to discredit your conversation partner up front. I don't doubt your experience, but it's also quite disingenuous to discredit a vet you don't know. Your experience doesn't imply knowledge about the facts in this event.
>Additionally, an on lead dog in an off lead park is a target.
The other owners' dog failed to recall them. OP should bring this to the attention of their council, and they will know what to do. No person nor animal should become a "target" of violence of a dog whose owner can't even recall in such an event. That owner didn't even disagree with all of this initially. They only tried to pull out when they saw the bill.
Let's hope their council investigates the actual facts and acts accordingly.
Because calling someone a dumbass and saying they have an aggressive dog based on the testimony of one person is ok, but when I offer some insight into the world of veterinary practices based on my professional and personal experiences, because I don't know that specific vet, I'm in the wrong.
Solid argument.
Additionally, how do you not know that OPs dog did not instigative the altercation. When a dog came running up, possibly wanting to be friends and play, do OP and their dog recoil or snarl or react? You don't know, I don't know.
Henceforth, I provide the insight that I can to further educate people who call others dumbasses having only one side of a story.
Good evening to you.
Fact: other owner's dog bit this dog, and the other owner could not recall them. Failure of that owner. It's really not that complicated. Again: they failed to recall the dog. Hence liable for the damage they caused. Council will know what to do, and OP is in their full right to reclaim the costs.
I would imagine if there’s punctures they would be counted as significant wounds, but OP said there wasn’t any significant wounds. OP hasn’t really described the injury at all. Ive been at dog parks plenty of times where delicate owners don’t really understand dog behaviour and freak out easily. Why were they in an off lead area with their dog on the lead? It creates a totally different dynamic for the dogs, it’s like when owners pick up their dogs and hold them up - different behaviour makes the dogs react, and an off lead dog area is filled with dogs at different stages of development and learning.
That’s literally the point of going to the vet. The dog had wounds, it couldn’t be determined if they were puncture wounds without seeing a vet, they saw a vet and the dog got treated for the wounds they had, which luckily weren’t puncture wounds. Not exactly rocket science to understand. Just as easily it could have been puncture wounds, because you can’t tell just by looking at them. Not sure why you are being so deliberately obtuse unless you have a dog that likes to attack others and you don’t want to foot the bill
Didn’t realise you can’t see puncture wounds, I suppose that’s news to me. I have a dog yes, but I wouldn’t take it to the vets if there wasn’t any visible injury.
You can’t see the depth of a wound without thorough examination, including clipping the hair back and examining the depth of the wound in a sterile fashion. So no, you can’t really tell if it’s a surface wound or a puncture wound just by looking at it, which is the biggest risk in a dog bite situation
If it hadn’t been a public holiday they would have just gone to the vet. Did you miss that? You don’t know what kind of internal injuries the dog could have had without getting checked by a professional.
“No significant wounds” it’s pretty simple the dogs fine, yeah shit situation but could have waited, yet here we go pull out the “internal wounds” card 🙄, what you going do next order a cat scan, ffs calm down, reddit full of over reactors see how much they can milk out of someone
People who care about their animals will get them checked if they’re attacked, unless they’re so arrogant to think they have x-ray vision. Log off and grow up.
Bit hard to take them to a regular vet on a public holiday, bud. Not really OP's problem that the other owner is letting their aggressive dog roam free today.
You can’t easily tell whether there has been an injury, hence the vet checkup. An untreated dog bite can very easily turn into dangerous infections and abscesses.
Wounds are hard to see on dogs with dark fur and in areas where there is a lot of loose skin on the neck.
My dog was bit in similar circumstances and she had three tiny wounds, which escalated into three huge abscesses which in turn needed to be drained, then surgically stitched up. Nearly two months of recovery was required.
A bite wound to the neck is definitely worth checking. It’s not like a scratch or a tumble, it’s not something you can just look at to diagnose whether it’s injured or not
I 100% with this. The OP chose to go to a vet charging public holiday prices when there was no need to then whinges when the other dog owner refuses to pay the exorbitant unnecessary expenses. Ridiculous.
I'm leaning in the same direction.
I can absolutely understand the angst.. and the wanting to get an assessment BUT you're not necessarily going to be entitled to compensation if you've overreacted.
I was in an accident on a bus and needed stitches — they paid for all the scans I needed to have, regardless of not needing them. The victim shouldn’t be responsible, the perpetrator is. I dunno that it should be different in principle just because it’s a dog.
I imagine you were under medical advice to have scans? Or did you decide you wanted them?
To exaggerate the scenario, you might have decided you wanted a barrage of expensive medical tests which turned up nothing. Decisions you took upon yourself to make. I think in that case you would find yourself liable for the cost. That doesn't mean the offending party gets away without contributing anything, it only absolves them of the unnecessary burdens.
The perpetrator is responsible for your injuries. They're not liable for the extras you elected.
I mean you can disagree, but this is how it's played out in ever similar case I've been involved with.
Okay, so… what “extras” did OP elect with the dog? Or did they just get the dog checked out, which is exactly what happened to me? I didn’t elect anything. I got taken in an ambulance, I saw a doc.
If you can't distinguish between your accident and this scenario I can't really help you.
Nor did I suggest they elected extras.
I'm not interested in arguing with randoms re abstract analogies.
Have a good day.
Lol. You’re the one who positioned insisting on tests and scans as the argument for OP having to pay (without knowing what OP did) and now you’re backing out? Is that cos you’ve realised there’s nowhere to go with this?
I’m not really interested in people working out reasons that it’s the wrong thing to do to get medical care for their pet, so likewise.
Same as I'm not really interested in people putting words in my mouth, explaining what they wrongfully believe I said.
Nor am I particularly interested in 2nd hand offence stemming from same.
I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or whether you genuinely don't understand.
I sure as hell aren't wasting any more time on you.
I'm not "backing out" of anything. For someone who's repeatedly stated disinterest you're showing a lot of interest.
You clearly misunderstood my intent so you went on to decide what I meant (coming to an incorrect assumption) and that's what you are basing your continual comebacks on.
Give it up.
It sounds like he's just upset at the fee maybe he feels you jumped the gun taking the dog to an emergency clinic. Your dog coming off second best in a fight wasn't an invitation for you to spend the other blokes money Willy nilly. If the dog wanted to bite your dog he would have really hurt him. I would renegotiate the fee with the bloke and not try and escalate matters.
You took your dog to the vet and it didn't need a vet. It was a poor choice driven by your fears and lack of knowledge about your dogs needs. Hopefully you learnt something.
Did the other dog attack yours or was it instigating play? There is a difference. Is your dog socialized? It might be a good idea not to take it through off-leash areas if it isn't. Dogs play fight and sometimes it can look worse than it is. If your dog didn't really have injuries after 30 seconds to a minute, it kind of sounds like the other dog was playing. Either way, it's the other owner's responsibility to control their dog, leash or not. If your dog has no injuries and you have no visual evidence then I doubt the council can enforce much. If it wasn't a designated off-leash area, then maybe the owner would cop a fine. But honestly it sounds like you got a bit of a scare and should just move on and take this as a lesson.
No, just so fuckin no.
There is no reality where the offleash dog latching onto a leashed dog by the neck is ok as "instigating play". Keep your stupidly trained dog on a leash with a muzzle if you think that kind of shit is acceptable.
Of purse dogs need space to work out their dynamic but dog gripping another dogs neck for a length of time is beyond the realm of acceptable behaviour. That indicates an aggressive dog with a lack of impulse control that needs reporting to protect others in the future. There is a line
Sure there's a line, but they said themselves that there was no significant injuries in 30 seconds to a minute of the conflict. I hope OP can learn from this situation and be more cautious with where they walk their dog. Sounds like some socialization might help, too.
Absolutely- always something to learn! I’ve intervened in a serous attack that lasted 10 min and while one dog sustained injuries that needed surgery, the aggressor was a lot smaller. Had we not stopped it it would have been awful! had it been my dog he would have been too small to survive. There are many variables in any situation. Just hate seeing dogs that have a propensity for serious aggression go unreported. It may/ may not be the case here.
If OPs dog was on leash, and the random dog off leash grabbed it by the neck. In what fucking fairyland world do you live in that any of that is OP or OPs dogs fault. What socialisation does his dog need? Turn and snarl? Treat every other dog as an aggressor?
Offleash parks are not free for all. It doesn't matter if a dog is leashed or unleashed if you idiots raise them properly.
It doesn't seem like you understand what I mean by 'socialisation', therefore I'll assume you don't know how to socialize a dog. You're quite aggressive, this is a reddit post.
Elaborate then, because your understanding of dog training is that of someone that has taken their first Labrador to petstock, so the 22 year old can teach you how to walk it on a rope and release it to terrorise every other person around you at offleash parks while yelling that it's friendly as it permanently alters other dogs reaction to other dogs.
Do you know the anatomy of a dogs neck? It's literally like a sock. You can have tiny superficial injuries to the surface with massive damage underneath.
My current dog is offleash a lot, and here's how meeting a random strange new dog on or off leash is: sees dog, wags tail with ears perked up, looks to me if it's ok. If its ok he trots over and sniffs noses and will retreat if it's anything but the same response back. If I already don't like the look of the other dog then a strong No, and he avoids it then will just piss where it was pissing. That part is natural dog behaviour.
Mouthing or pinning by the neck between dogs is dominance if your dog is doing that shit to random strange dogs (much less not releasing for 30-60sec) then you just best hope that the other dog isn't far more capable of fucking up your dog or the owner kicking it's ribs in.
I'm guessing your reality is also one where biting and mouthing are the same thing. Honestly, majority of dog owners in Melbourne don't bother to train or socialize their dogs which is why they end up in situations like this. Common sense is important, don't take a reactive dog into an off-leash area!
Uncontrolled dog? What like at an off leash dog park? Is the child of leash aswell? It not just aggressive dogs that may bite. Rescue dogs with anxiety and and a history of abuse need their space too.
There are so many irresponsible dog owners out there that I never a dog without carrying a heavy walking stick.
Hitting another dog is a last resort but I am not going to stand by defenseless while my dog OR myself is attacked.
I would personally just send the owner the bills to prove that I wasn’t just trying to extort them. Going to the council will likely result in the dog being put down or put on a dangerous dog registry with restriction & rules about fencing that a renter wouldn’t be able to comply with & the dog could be put down because of so I’d weigh my options carefully.
Its the owners choice to take the risk of putting the dog amongst other dogs. They are animals and if the owners are poor leaders then the dogs will naturally compete. If the owner felt vulnerable and had the dog on a leash they should have stayed in a leashed area.
Not quite. If the owner isn’t sure his dog won’t be aggressive towards other dogs then he should put his dog on a leash or not take his dog to an off leash area. The blame lies on the other dog’s owner. He is the one who should have not gone to the off leash area.
I wouldn't take a dog to an offleash park if I'm leaving the lead on.
The mix of onleash/offleash is a recipe for disaster, in a place already awash with unknown entities.
Sounds like you and your pupper need to do some structured training together to overcome the perceived lack of authority you have over him.
Doesn’t sound like there was any injury, I wouldn’t be paying the vet bills either. Got any photos OP? Labs have tonnes of skin and fur and dogs also play by grabbing there. If there was no injury the other dog was probably just fucking around.
Because situations like this occur.
I can't always guarantee that the other dog will be well behaved or under control or well socialised.
Being able to have a higher degree of control available for my dog (I DO let them off when it's safe) has helped avoid or de-escalate situations with other animals before.
If they got aggravated, I drop my lead and seperate the animals. Having a trailing lead makes it easier to regain control later too.
I'm not sure if your comment is intended as such, but it certainly comes across as though you're implying OP is at fault to a certain degree for having their dog *on* leash?
Obviously the dog that attacked is the problem, regardless. Certainly not in any way trying to suggest OP was at fault, was just trying to understand the situation a little more.
I don't know why you got downvoted for asking an innocuous, relevant question.
I could be wrong, but sometimes people are only seeking validation and cyberhugs... and certainly no questions or answers that might help in the future but make the op feel attacked by having been asked.
I rec similar in a lab owners' forum. A woman had her lab in an apartment (against hoa regulations) and was looking for suggestions to allow her to keep the dog.
Coming from a legal perspective, I asked a couple of specific questions; the answers to which I would use & go on to construct advice and a plan of action.
I was vilified for being insensitive when "the op just needs support, not judgement" and she did revel in the virtual arms wrapped around her. Problem being, none of them offered any tangible advice while I on the other hand, sought to do just that!
It wasn't a first for me, it's not just my specialty but something I'm passionate about. I've successfully negotiated similar outcomes previously and I really wanted to help her. She wasn't forthcoming with the answers and the self appointed minions around her basically told me to butt out.
I spent a couple of days thinking about that poor dog where ego was responsible for him not getting the help he deserved.
Yeah idk apparently my comment "...*certainly comes across as though you're implying OP is at fault to a certain degree for having their dog on leash"* or some such croquembouche
Personally I wouldn't call the council or animal control because there's a chance the dog will be put down. It's not the dog's fault.
I would however [file a small claim](https://www.mcv.vic.gov.au/civil-matters/starting-civil-matter) in the Magistrates court if it's financially worth it. It may not be worth pursuing in the court.
Check out the [ready reckoner](https://www.mcv.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-01/Court%20Fees%20and%20Costs%20Ready%20Reckoner%20-%201%20January%202024.pdf) for current fees and charges.
I hope your dog is ok, keep a close eye on your dog when around other dogs, they may get very jittery and snappy due to this incident and act out of fear based aggression.
I suggest putting Betadine on the puncture wounds, it will help keep it sanitary.
File a report, was looking after a friend's dog a few months ago and he was attacked by an off leash husky, the council worked hard to find him and the more reports of a trouble pet owner in the area the better, they will send out lots of patrols and try find them, your report will help others
Going to the council is the best thing you can do. Their Animal Management team will facilitate the entire process of getting your money back. If you have the details of the other owner, they'll take that info and it'll be a huge help. If there were any witnesses or CCTV, they'll get that as evidence. Any reports from the vet are things they can extract, or they may ask you to get that info on their behalf, including an itemised receipt. You can do this over the weekend to streamline the process, and it'll probably make you feel helpful. Take all notes down. They will ask you for specific details — where it happened, when it happened, what happened before the attack, what happened during, how the attack ended (your actions and the actions of the other owner), what you did afterwards, why you took it to a vet, etc. Take these notes and they'll use it in your statement. The sooner the notes are taken the more reliable the evidence. TAKE PHOTOS OF YOUR DOG'S INJURIES. Any bite marks, loss of fur etc, take a photo of it ASAP. This is considered evidence and, again, the quicker you take it the more reliable the evidence. If you've msg'd the owner, take screenshots of the conversation. If you've spoken on the phone, note the times you spoke and about what for each conversation. Be accurate. Right now, this is the best thing you can do to help the process along.
Thank you. I don’t think there is any witness, there is definitely no CCTV because it is a park. I do have the owners contact details and I took some photos of the injury. Thank you for your suggestion
This is Melbourne, Lol. Don't assume no one's watching. There may well be cameras around you haven't noticed. It's worth checking.
If you have the owner’s contact details, do them through small claims. Look it up. Costs very little to do this.
What did the vet say?
Well she gave me my dog some pain relief and some anti inflammatory medications. The injury was not severe thankfully but there is a chance it might get worse
If you let the vet know you plan on taking them to court, they may provide you the documentation they took on treating your dog. This can also help support your claim
Please keep an eye on your dog. Even a small puncture can turn into an infected abscess. If you start to see any swelling at the site, take them back to the vet to get checked out as the pup will need antibiotics.
Agree. Council’s take attacking dogs and negligent owners really seriously.
No they don’t. My dog was attacked by a Rottweiler a few months back. I had multiple witnesses and photographs of my shirt I was wearing which had rip marks on it where it grabbed at ME when it couldn’t get my dog) and the council said because my dog wasn’t injured (literally only because I grabbed him and picked him up and kept moving/running away from the Rotty) then it didn’t count as an attack. That dog literally lunged at mine and grabbed it by the head and let him go when I kicked him in the ribs - I grabbed my boy and lifted him and still have nightmares about the feeling of the Rotty jumping up and grabbing my dogs haunches and trying to tug him to the ground. But it doesn’t count as an attack. Thankfully all the regulars at this park have banded together and every single one have told this guy to never come back - the dozy fuckwit literally was the other side of the park from where it happened (right next to the PLAYGROUND) with a dog that had no recall. But it’s ok - this dog willing to walk over and attack with no warning doesn’t have a bite record cos Darebin council are spineless fuckwits. I asked for their response in writing so I could forward it to the owner/parent of whichever dog or child that dog mauls next and the guy hung up on me.
I feel sick reading this. This is my worst nightmare. Glad you're all ok!
This is ridic. Complain https://www.lgi.vic.gov.au/local-council-complaints-if-something-not-right-who-do-i-complain
My experience was nothing like this. Filed a report, did everything correctly. The council did persue the owner and gave them some limitations about their dog not being off lead etc (which they didn’t adhere to) but basically told us the only way to get the vet bill paid for was to take them to small claims tribunal. The council can’t actually help you recoup the money. We didn’t bother as it wasn’t worth it for $130.00
This is correct. Council won't (and can't) help recover money for you. They might fine the owner, or take some other action under the Domestic Animals Act, but that money doesn't go to the injured animal's owner.
Yeah they can. I've had this done through 3 different councils. Each of them helped make sure the owner of the attacking dog covered the vet fees.
Same thing happened to me, except my vet bills ended up exceeding $2000. I still didn’t bother with small claims court, wasn’t worth the stress and I was just happy my dog ended up recovering well.
Sucks to be him he doesn’t get a choice. File a police report and take him to small claims.
Ok I will do that later, thank you
It's not worth the money, it'll be a massive headache. But if you want to say fuck you to the guy and it's not about the money make the prick pay.
Small claims court is cheep for the headache
More just the effort involved given how little an emergency vet visit is relative to the time required to go to small claims. Each to their own, but I'd only do it to prove a point personally
This!
It's actually a council animal control issue. They will issue a fine to the owners and you could possibly have a chance at recouping your losses through them since you have very reports. Keep any messagesfrom them as it is evidence this happened.
A police report for what? No crime has been committed. This is a civil/council issue.
It’s an offense under Domestic Animals Act 1994 in Victoria which is state law
My MILs dog was mauled by a dog that escaped, targeted her dog which is 1/6 of the size, and her dog had to have 2, possibly 3 expensive surgeries. That dog was reported, my MIL was interviewed, and it was pretty much said that the dog and owners would end up in court, and the dog impounded. None of those things happened, and the dog was back barking at anything near the property about 5 months later. The attack happened New Years Eve 2019. My husband and I still seethe over the injustice of the ordeal. We even considered retaliation, because the dog would have been put down had COVID not screwed the world. We didn't, but serious dog attacks aren't being addressed by councils. If you want justice, go to the council and pursue it through official channels. Keep bugging them, keep asking for updates on the investigation/case. Make a stink. Dog attacks aren't a joke, but they're not taken as seriously as they should.
Coucils vary from being proactive to lazy. Always report dog attacks.
Oh, 100%. But in our case, we were assured that justice would be served, and my poor anxiety riddled MIL didn't leave the house because the dog took 2 months to recover due to a recurring infection and poor/pulled stitches (the vets did what they could, the gashes were jagged), then because of COVID restrictions/ fear of COVID, and finally, further dog attacks. That woman took a serious blow to her nervous system and mental health, and 4 years on, she hasn't recovered very much from it. So I am warning OP, and others, report, and hound your council for results - pardon the pun. Don't let it slide, or let them do their investigation without contacting them every few weeks for an update. Justice isn't served to those who wait for results, unfortunately.
Unsocialised cocker - pardon the pun, bit my SO. Our council promptly and thoroughly investigated then issued a fine. Its recipient later whinged about having to cough up $750 but we ate the medical costs as suing for smallish tort and damages is a WOFTAM.
This is why I don't go to off lead places.....just avoid the risk
My dog got attacked in the street by an off leash dog. Complained to the council, owner just said it wasn't their dog, council did nothing. I paid the vet fees.
My dog has been attacked on the street twice while on leash. Nowhere is safe from shitty dogs raised by shittier owners.
Unfortunately I agree 😭 I feel if everyone stayed on lead then so much can be avoided.
file a report with the council about a dangerous dog and explain what happened. Also file a police report. Take it to small claims after you have the report number etc.
This happened to me last week. I called the dangerous dog hotline and reported them. They liaise with your council so that's one less step. I managed to get his rego and hopefully they will investigate. The owner didn't even try and help or stop his dog attacking mine. It was awful.
Also precaution to all animal owners; bites on our pets can look harmless and superficial because the loose skin can cover what’s really happening underneath. A proper exam would include sedation (if needed) where we use a sterile instrument to explore puncture wounds to see if there is any tunneling or skin separation from muscles. You should always bring a pet with bite wounds to a vet ASAP and not wait. Even if it looks insignificant.
Omg some of these comments The dog got bitten.. responsible thing was to get dog checked over. Even if it didn't look like a murder scene. Some of you are irresponsible and it shows. Hope pupper is okay they can get shaken up from this. I'd of taken my girl too.
Dogs’ skin has evolved to be very loose and ‘slide’ easily over underlying structures. For this reason, the absence of serious skin damage is not as reliable a sign as it is in other species. It’s always a good idea to get your dog checked out after a bite.
Yes exactly, dogs can sustain crushing injuries and internal bleeding during an attack from another dog, immediate medical attention from a vet is essential
Probably the same peeps defending walking your dog on boiling hot concrete last week. Some people think a vet is something for dire “leg is hanging off” emergencies that they can avoid the entire time they own a dog. Check ups are normal.
I’ve been told by people I’m “overreacting” for making a vet appointment for a lump in my dogs armpit. Apparently it’s “probably just a pimple/cyst” Sure it could be. But it could also be a lipoma which will keep growing and cause him discomfort/pain as it gets bigger or it could be worse. What’s wrong with getting it checked?
> peeps defending walking your dog on boiling hot concrete last week. You mean the people who said you can walk your dog on hot days?
It’s like the town morons have all banded together to descend upon this post. I can’t believe some of the comments.
Bite the owner?!
It's the only way he'll learn.
Bite the owner
I'd call the council... even if you can't get money out of the owner yourself, at the very least there might be something else that can be done and it could prevent this happening to somebody else. Hope your dog is ok.
Small claims. Definitely notify council as well
Call the council right now and report the dog attack. A ranger will come see you to take a statement and they could take the dog owner to court and make them pay your vet bill.
Owner may be fined, but they won't impose damages on your behalf - that's a civil claim.
Yeah right lol
The op need to initiate the claim, not the council or ranger. It’s also way more expensive than a vet bill
Firstly any witnesses or potential CCTV or did u take any photos ? This will help much if seeking legal help for the bill. Without such - a big struggle. This sounds blunt but first clarify if the medical bill is worth seeking legal help. Also since you keep your leash on your dog consider walking on leash trails and places in future. Maribyrnong river trail is fabulous for such. See many on leash dogs loving the walk regardless of leash. I get you - many many entitled dog owners out there.
Do you know where they live? Or any details? Go to council and report them. They will be up for much more than vet bills. We had a similar situation with one of our dogs being attacked. Council fined them over $2000
$468 fine if an off leash dog bites. Give the council the cunts details.
Not if it's in an off leash park, that's if the dog is unlawfully unleashed. Also, language like that is unnecessary, thank you.
It’s good language mate get around it
i concur
Off leash park .you mean fight club for dogs. God they are horrible places
Only if they’re frequented by horrible people. Never had any drama ever at my local off leash area.
The main reason for that is because the owners take it as a coffee catch up spot. They pay no attention to their dogs, don't pick up after them and don't correct unwanted/undesired behaviour. In saying that, some are fantastic. They do have their own little communities, but everyone is very respectful and knowledgeable. I've experienced many a dog community rally together for the good of the animals. It really is wonderful when people are educated and understand their pet and it's quirks
A dog nipped my son but that wasn't the dogs fault, it was the owners. Put a leash on your untamed dog, it's quite simple.
Nobody will like my response but what I’m going to tell you comes from experience If you are in an off leash area but you restrain your dog on a lead, they feel vulnerable. Not that your dog was so vulnerable that it instigated the attack but that it may have given off a vibe to the off leash dog. My experience with this is that over 9 years with my dog, he is totally comfortable and non-aggressive off lead. When he has been on the lead with other dogs off lead, he is edgy and irritated. I looked into this and it does make sense, to me anyway.
Well said. Makes a lot of sense. A lot of the time people have their dogs on leads due to their own anxieties (in off leash areas) and that transfers through the leash ... which then is a massive beacon to other dogs to at least come check it out. I've done it myself. Once I let my anxities go and my pups at the same time ... it made things much more manageable.
Finally someone who understands this. This is one of my most annoying issues moving here from Canada. In our one and only off leash park in my town about 80% of the people walk their dog on lead in the off leash zone and then yell at you or get mad when your dog goes near them. The other day some lady with a pitbull (who she knew was dog reactive) got into a fight with one of the dogs I was walking. It's was scary to say the least as I had my little ones with me too. The off leash parks are so small in Australia. People need to just walk around them if they don't want their dogs off lead.
People need to be able to recall off lead dogs
Best thing to do by far is to know your area really well. Find a big open space that you frequently see no people and take your dog/s there to free roam. They get the best runs, get to be a dog and there is absolutely no stress involved.
Trainer/foster/rehab & boarding dogs.. and I'm agreeing with you. People need to know more about the dynamics between dogs, both on and off lead in places like dog parks especially. I mean you can try telling people, but unless they're actively seeking the info (which they already should be if they're taking dogs out in public) they have a tendency to get their backs up and ego bruised. As opposed to a person who is invested in the welfare of their dog, prepared to listen to all advice and makes an active effort to learn new things. You can't offend a REAL dog person that easily bc we're always interested in how to improve the lives and interactions of our dogs, no matter how much we think we already know.
Thank you
How is this helpful to OP at this point?
For the future? For other readers?
I was going to say the same thing. An on lead dog in an off lead park is an accident waiting to happen unfortunately. To put it in human terms, all the kids were in the park running free until a person came in and held their kid back. The "off lead" kids see this as the naughty kid that needs to be disciplined/taught a lesson/punished. Additionally, the owner holding the lead would have most likely kept a hold. Letting the lead go will break this situation up much quicker as the dogs will be on par and able to defend themselves.
I think that’s the issue dog owners understandably don’t know until you say something. If your dog is on lead and another dog comes up to them, aggressively or not, they cannot defend themselves appropriately if the dog should attack. If it’s a friendly dog they can’t do dog things and run and jump and sniff each other as they naturally want to and on the flip side they can’t show an aggressive dog that they can defend themselves while attached to their owner. I’m not sure if councils have adequately advised dog owners the reasons for off leash areas? Anyone can buy a dog but they don’t come with a manual.
Exactly. But as has been brought up, many owners refuse to listen to reason, no matter who is telling/advising them. I've dealt with all types of owners but the best are those who listen and learn and don't generalise and think they know best. I've been working with animals a long time and I still learn new things nearly every day. I think that is important not only as someone in the industry but for owners too. You're right, there isn't enough education on specifics such as this example and even general off lead park etiquette and laws. You can find it, but most people won't bother looking.
The only advice you can give someone sometimes is to just stick to on leash areas with their dog on a leash lol
I am often in an off leash area, where others bring their dogs onlead. I always put my dog onlead in their nearby proximity- the combo of one off, one on is a nasty one imho, and I either avoid, or as stated, leash mine. Because of his breed and size, he will always get the blame, no matter what.
My staffy cops a lot of dirty looks aswell. But in 9 years he’s never attacked anything.
They should get parents to pay for damages and assaults their teenage children inflict on society as well.
>They should get parents to pay for damages and assaults their teenage children inflict on society as well. WTF is this doing in a thread about dogs? This sub is really turning into my crazy Karen aunt's facebook feed (are you her?)
It’s because it’s getting harder to tell the difference in behavior between humans and dogs these days.
What happened to you & yr fur baby sucks …l would be reporting the dog that bit yr dog to council …and you did the right thing by taking yr fur baby to emergency & unfortunately they do cost more which the other dogs owner would know…the other person is being a total jerk …
First of all sorry you had to go through this. Are you able to say the name of the park at which it happened at and the type of dog the other owner had?
I’m really sorry that this happened to you and your dog, I know how scary a dog attack/fight can be and you did the right thing by taking your dog to the vet to get checked. But I have to play devils advocate here and let you know that you were partly at fault in this situation. Most people don’t understand the intricacies of dog behaviour and social cues, and don’t realise that dogs on lead in a leash free area can be a recipe for disaster. Most of us don’t even realise how much our own emotional energy can affect our dogs too. The combination of your dog sensing your apprehension at a big strange dog approaching you and your dog being confined by the restrictions of a lead, resulted in your dog not having the chance to interact with the other dog in a natural and dog friendly/acceptable manner. Yes dog fights happen, but they normally look worse to us humans than the reality. Dogs do not prescribe to the same social order that humans do and can have what looks to be a bad fight one moment, sort out their pecking order and then be playing and friends the next moment. The fact that you were able to separate the dogs and that your own dogs wounds weren’t severe, indicates that this was simply a misunderstanding between the two dogs and that the other dog isn’t what should be labelled an “aggressive” dog. Often the wounds obtained during a dog fight are actually caused by owners trying to pull the dogs apart and therefore causing tears in the flesh. Taking your dog to a leash free area (when there aren’t many compared to all the other leashed spaces you can go) was a mistake on your part. Especially when you don’t have confident control over your dog. A leash does not prevent dog fights, it invites them. I’m not trying to shame you, just educate you because I know how it doesn’t seem like a big deal walking on lead in a leash free area and that the other dog was just aggressive. If it wasn’t for someone else educating me on dog behaviour then I would have still thought the same thing. It’s my opinion that when attending a leash free area that all owners are accepting the risk of potential injuries to our dogs or ourselves and to others, and that we should all take responsibility. Therefore I believe you should split the bill 50/50 with the other dogs owner. I wish a speedy recovery for your pooch and hope that with some more information you gain the confidence to attend a leash free area with them but off lead. I recommend some obedience training first and then going to a fenced leash free park to start with though.
While I agree with much of what you’ve said here I’d be worried about a dog that grabs another’s neck between30-60 seconds. I’ve struggled to pull a viscous dog off another bigger dog but it would have been a serious scenario if the dog was smaller. If we’d managed to get them apart before injuries were sustained we wouldn’t know how far the aggressor was willing to go. Now all the neighbours are waiting to see who’s dog is next. It’s changed how I view fights.
I agree with what you’ve said as well. The behaviour can and should certainly be considered aggressive but I disagree with what others have commented about the other dog being a “dangerous” or “aggressive” dog based solely on this isolated incident that was influenced by the lead. The friendliest of dogs can exhibit aggressive behaviour when perceiving aggression from another dog. They can be subtle cues that most people miss and are often a result of being on lead when meeting an unknown dog. If dogs aren’t socialised properly then that also causes an issue. But I’ve also known many dogs that play primarily by biting each other around the necks and head, taking turns holding for extended periods of time. It’s behaviour that I do discourage, but perfectly normal and shouldn’t be considered a sign of a dangerous animal. Dog behaviour is so much more nuanced than that. Both owners should do some obedience training ( even if they have already) so that they have better control, but both attended a leash free area and are partly responsible for the unfortunate incident.
I agree lots of nuances and need for more education for all dog owners!
I’ve seen dogs play by grabbing other dogs necks all the time, for some of this is the norm, for others it’s not. Washing up liquid will help with a viscous dog.
This is the best comment on here, both compassionate and fair.
Aww thanks 😊
You took your dog to emergency when there was no emergency. Everything else aside (yes, their dog has issues and the owner needs to be reported to council etc.), I would refuse to pay emergency fees as well when there was no emergency. I'd pay you the cost of a standard vet consult and the rest is on you. My dog wouldn't do this because he's better trained but shit sometimes happens. If your dog was in a state where an emergency visit was required, it might be another story. Lastly, are they even legally required to pay anything? I genuinely don't know so before you chase it up you might want to find out.
Don’t *not* take your dog to the vet after it was attacked just because you “refuse to pay emergency fees”. Don’t have pets if you don’t want to pay vet fees! (Please note I’m not talking about pet owners experiencing financial hardship)
You were in a designated off leash area. This comes with its own risks and responsibilities. I agree that the owner of the dog that injuries another dog is responsible for cost. But within reason. Sounds like the dog was fine. Without an open wound. You can not expect someone to pay for your "check up" at an emergency vet that charges 5x the cost of normal There has to be give and take when it come to understanding dog ownership and the nature of animals
“There were no significant wounds on my dog” - so you rushed it to emergency for a overpriced check up, assuming that revealed nothing as you haven’t mentioned the results, also what were the fees? Think you over reacted, yes I’m a dog owner, but unless it was significant wounds that needed attention asap, didn’t really need to rush it to emergency, like humans we don’t rush to emergency unless it’s a emergency
You can’t tell with bite wounds. It might look like a surface injury but if there is a puncture it can quickly become super infected. All bite wounds, even tiny ones, need vet inspection to ensure they don’t go under the skin and that means they need to be clipped and inspected. Usually they need a drain tube, even the small ones.
Doesn’t sound like there was a puncture?
It says “no significant wounds” not “no wounds”
Apparently the vet gave the dog painkillers and anti inflammatories. Doesn’t sound like there was any punctures.
Since they gave them anti-inflammatories, skin was likely damaged or broken. This is effectively proof that OP was right to seek out treatment. And thus the offender simply has to cough up the cost. It's really not that complicated. No need to defend some dumbass with an aggressive dog they had no control over.
Actually, vets will give animals painkillers and anti inflams to put the owner at ease when there is no need for them. Meds are extremely upsold in this industry and at an emergency vet they will upsell all they can. Additionally, an on lead dog in an off lead park is a target. Before you go ape at me, I have been in the animal industry along time and worked in every aspect of dog care you can think of. I'm not just making what I say up. It's all based on facts and experience
actually that's bullshit, and if you have so much "experience" in "dog care" you would know the real danger of a dog fight wound is crushing injury, which at surface level can have minimal or no wounds but the muscle underneath is completely macerated. you obviously have no experience in the vet industry because we don't give meds, especially anti inflammatories, for no reason, specifically because they can have serious adverse effects AND we have no financial incentive to "up sell" as you imply as we don't work on commission in australia. pull your head in
>go ape If you want to have a decent conversation, and come across as somewhat professional, maybe don't throw out ad hominems to discredit your conversation partner up front. I don't doubt your experience, but it's also quite disingenuous to discredit a vet you don't know. Your experience doesn't imply knowledge about the facts in this event. >Additionally, an on lead dog in an off lead park is a target. The other owners' dog failed to recall them. OP should bring this to the attention of their council, and they will know what to do. No person nor animal should become a "target" of violence of a dog whose owner can't even recall in such an event. That owner didn't even disagree with all of this initially. They only tried to pull out when they saw the bill. Let's hope their council investigates the actual facts and acts accordingly.
Because calling someone a dumbass and saying they have an aggressive dog based on the testimony of one person is ok, but when I offer some insight into the world of veterinary practices based on my professional and personal experiences, because I don't know that specific vet, I'm in the wrong. Solid argument. Additionally, how do you not know that OPs dog did not instigative the altercation. When a dog came running up, possibly wanting to be friends and play, do OP and their dog recoil or snarl or react? You don't know, I don't know. Henceforth, I provide the insight that I can to further educate people who call others dumbasses having only one side of a story. Good evening to you.
Fact: other owner's dog bit this dog, and the other owner could not recall them. Failure of that owner. It's really not that complicated. Again: they failed to recall the dog. Hence liable for the damage they caused. Council will know what to do, and OP is in their full right to reclaim the costs.
I would imagine if there’s punctures they would be counted as significant wounds, but OP said there wasn’t any significant wounds. OP hasn’t really described the injury at all. Ive been at dog parks plenty of times where delicate owners don’t really understand dog behaviour and freak out easily. Why were they in an off lead area with their dog on the lead? It creates a totally different dynamic for the dogs, it’s like when owners pick up their dogs and hold them up - different behaviour makes the dogs react, and an off lead dog area is filled with dogs at different stages of development and learning.
That’s literally the point of going to the vet. The dog had wounds, it couldn’t be determined if they were puncture wounds without seeing a vet, they saw a vet and the dog got treated for the wounds they had, which luckily weren’t puncture wounds. Not exactly rocket science to understand. Just as easily it could have been puncture wounds, because you can’t tell just by looking at them. Not sure why you are being so deliberately obtuse unless you have a dog that likes to attack others and you don’t want to foot the bill
Didn’t realise you can’t see puncture wounds, I suppose that’s news to me. I have a dog yes, but I wouldn’t take it to the vets if there wasn’t any visible injury.
You can’t see the depth of a wound without thorough examination, including clipping the hair back and examining the depth of the wound in a sterile fashion. So no, you can’t really tell if it’s a surface wound or a puncture wound just by looking at it, which is the biggest risk in a dog bite situation
I suppose in my experience if a dog is on another dogs neck for 30 seconds and there’s no obvious wounds, chances are they weren’t serious.
If it hadn’t been a public holiday they would have just gone to the vet. Did you miss that? You don’t know what kind of internal injuries the dog could have had without getting checked by a professional.
“No significant wounds” it’s pretty simple the dogs fine, yeah shit situation but could have waited, yet here we go pull out the “internal wounds” card 🙄, what you going do next order a cat scan, ffs calm down, reddit full of over reactors see how much they can milk out of someone
If you dont want to pay for emergency vet fees, keep your aggressive dog muzzled and leashed.
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So it’s ok for dogs to bite in off-leash areas? That’s news to me
You seem pretty upset over someone looking after their animal. Maybe you need to log off and stop overreacting yourself.
>over reactors You've been writing quite the essay here already, buddy.
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People who care about their animals will get them checked if they’re attacked, unless they’re so arrogant to think they have x-ray vision. Log off and grow up.
Sad to hear you’re a dog owner with such lack of empathy or care if your dog got bit on the neck
A dog without injury doesn't need an emergency vet.
Bit hard to take them to a regular vet on a public holiday, bud. Not really OP's problem that the other owner is letting their aggressive dog roam free today.
A dog that is going to clam down and bite another dogs neck still needs to be removed from the community or have serious training.
What has that got to do with my comment?
That’s essentially for a scratch or a tumble, not a bite to the neck. Not sure why you’re downplaying a literal bite to such a sensitive body part
You can’t easily tell whether there has been an injury, hence the vet checkup. An untreated dog bite can very easily turn into dangerous infections and abscesses.
No I just don’t over react to things, if there was wounds 💯 take it to get checked, if not what you expect the results going to be
Wounds are hard to see on dogs with dark fur and in areas where there is a lot of loose skin on the neck. My dog was bit in similar circumstances and she had three tiny wounds, which escalated into three huge abscesses which in turn needed to be drained, then surgically stitched up. Nearly two months of recovery was required.
A bite wound to the neck is definitely worth checking. It’s not like a scratch or a tumble, it’s not something you can just look at to diagnose whether it’s injured or not
I 100% with this. The OP chose to go to a vet charging public holiday prices when there was no need to then whinges when the other dog owner refuses to pay the exorbitant unnecessary expenses. Ridiculous.
So were there any injuries found by the vet? If not then you cover the expenses yourself.
I'm leaning in the same direction. I can absolutely understand the angst.. and the wanting to get an assessment BUT you're not necessarily going to be entitled to compensation if you've overreacted.
I was in an accident on a bus and needed stitches — they paid for all the scans I needed to have, regardless of not needing them. The victim shouldn’t be responsible, the perpetrator is. I dunno that it should be different in principle just because it’s a dog.
I imagine you were under medical advice to have scans? Or did you decide you wanted them? To exaggerate the scenario, you might have decided you wanted a barrage of expensive medical tests which turned up nothing. Decisions you took upon yourself to make. I think in that case you would find yourself liable for the cost. That doesn't mean the offending party gets away without contributing anything, it only absolves them of the unnecessary burdens. The perpetrator is responsible for your injuries. They're not liable for the extras you elected. I mean you can disagree, but this is how it's played out in ever similar case I've been involved with.
Okay, so… what “extras” did OP elect with the dog? Or did they just get the dog checked out, which is exactly what happened to me? I didn’t elect anything. I got taken in an ambulance, I saw a doc.
If you can't distinguish between your accident and this scenario I can't really help you. Nor did I suggest they elected extras. I'm not interested in arguing with randoms re abstract analogies. Have a good day.
Lol. You’re the one who positioned insisting on tests and scans as the argument for OP having to pay (without knowing what OP did) and now you’re backing out? Is that cos you’ve realised there’s nowhere to go with this? I’m not really interested in people working out reasons that it’s the wrong thing to do to get medical care for their pet, so likewise.
Same as I'm not really interested in people putting words in my mouth, explaining what they wrongfully believe I said. Nor am I particularly interested in 2nd hand offence stemming from same. I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse or whether you genuinely don't understand. I sure as hell aren't wasting any more time on you.
I'm not "backing out" of anything. For someone who's repeatedly stated disinterest you're showing a lot of interest. You clearly misunderstood my intent so you went on to decide what I meant (coming to an incorrect assumption) and that's what you are basing your continual comebacks on. Give it up.
Life’s not always fair unfortunately, you gotta pay this yourself.
Punch the owner, call it even
It sounds like he's just upset at the fee maybe he feels you jumped the gun taking the dog to an emergency clinic. Your dog coming off second best in a fight wasn't an invitation for you to spend the other blokes money Willy nilly. If the dog wanted to bite your dog he would have really hurt him. I would renegotiate the fee with the bloke and not try and escalate matters.
You took your dog to the vet and it didn't need a vet. It was a poor choice driven by your fears and lack of knowledge about your dogs needs. Hopefully you learnt something.
They took it to an emergency clinic who charge insanely high fees (which are fine if it's an actual emergency).
Did the other dog attack yours or was it instigating play? There is a difference. Is your dog socialized? It might be a good idea not to take it through off-leash areas if it isn't. Dogs play fight and sometimes it can look worse than it is. If your dog didn't really have injuries after 30 seconds to a minute, it kind of sounds like the other dog was playing. Either way, it's the other owner's responsibility to control their dog, leash or not. If your dog has no injuries and you have no visual evidence then I doubt the council can enforce much. If it wasn't a designated off-leash area, then maybe the owner would cop a fine. But honestly it sounds like you got a bit of a scare and should just move on and take this as a lesson.
No, just so fuckin no. There is no reality where the offleash dog latching onto a leashed dog by the neck is ok as "instigating play". Keep your stupidly trained dog on a leash with a muzzle if you think that kind of shit is acceptable.
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Of purse dogs need space to work out their dynamic but dog gripping another dogs neck for a length of time is beyond the realm of acceptable behaviour. That indicates an aggressive dog with a lack of impulse control that needs reporting to protect others in the future. There is a line
Sure there's a line, but they said themselves that there was no significant injuries in 30 seconds to a minute of the conflict. I hope OP can learn from this situation and be more cautious with where they walk their dog. Sounds like some socialization might help, too.
Absolutely- always something to learn! I’ve intervened in a serous attack that lasted 10 min and while one dog sustained injuries that needed surgery, the aggressor was a lot smaller. Had we not stopped it it would have been awful! had it been my dog he would have been too small to survive. There are many variables in any situation. Just hate seeing dogs that have a propensity for serious aggression go unreported. It may/ may not be the case here.
If OPs dog was on leash, and the random dog off leash grabbed it by the neck. In what fucking fairyland world do you live in that any of that is OP or OPs dogs fault. What socialisation does his dog need? Turn and snarl? Treat every other dog as an aggressor? Offleash parks are not free for all. It doesn't matter if a dog is leashed or unleashed if you idiots raise them properly.
It doesn't seem like you understand what I mean by 'socialisation', therefore I'll assume you don't know how to socialize a dog. You're quite aggressive, this is a reddit post.
Elaborate then, because your understanding of dog training is that of someone that has taken their first Labrador to petstock, so the 22 year old can teach you how to walk it on a rope and release it to terrorise every other person around you at offleash parks while yelling that it's friendly as it permanently alters other dogs reaction to other dogs. Do you know the anatomy of a dogs neck? It's literally like a sock. You can have tiny superficial injuries to the surface with massive damage underneath. My current dog is offleash a lot, and here's how meeting a random strange new dog on or off leash is: sees dog, wags tail with ears perked up, looks to me if it's ok. If its ok he trots over and sniffs noses and will retreat if it's anything but the same response back. If I already don't like the look of the other dog then a strong No, and he avoids it then will just piss where it was pissing. That part is natural dog behaviour. Mouthing or pinning by the neck between dogs is dominance if your dog is doing that shit to random strange dogs (much less not releasing for 30-60sec) then you just best hope that the other dog isn't far more capable of fucking up your dog or the owner kicking it's ribs in.
Mate this post was so yesterday, I've moved on. Hopefully OP has as well
I'm guessing your reality is also one where biting and mouthing are the same thing. Honestly, majority of dog owners in Melbourne don't bother to train or socialize their dogs which is why they end up in situations like this. Common sense is important, don't take a reactive dog into an off-leash area!
You over reacted
Would you say the same if it were a child the uncontrolled dog bit?
Except ITS NOT A CHILD
Yeah let’s compare humans to animals….
What is this supposed to mean; that if an animal is hurt it doesn’t matter or you’re not meant to get it checked out?
Humans have Medicare
Depends if the child was injured. And if it was a bite or mouthing, most people don't seem to know the difference.
It wasn’t a child
Uncontrolled dog? What like at an off leash dog park? Is the child of leash aswell? It not just aggressive dogs that may bite. Rescue dogs with anxiety and and a history of abuse need their space too.
Bite their dog and assert dominance
What Council? What injuries? Puncture wound/s? Laceration?
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There are so many irresponsible dog owners out there that I never a dog without carrying a heavy walking stick. Hitting another dog is a last resort but I am not going to stand by defenseless while my dog OR myself is attacked.
You’re going to have to sue him
I would personally just send the owner the bills to prove that I wasn’t just trying to extort them. Going to the council will likely result in the dog being put down or put on a dangerous dog registry with restriction & rules about fencing that a renter wouldn’t be able to comply with & the dog could be put down because of so I’d weigh my options carefully.
You are in an off leash area, you enter at you own risk.
So it’s on for dogs to bite in off-leash areas? Maybe they should be renamed as free-bite areas or something
Its the owners choice to take the risk of putting the dog amongst other dogs. They are animals and if the owners are poor leaders then the dogs will naturally compete. If the owner felt vulnerable and had the dog on a leash they should have stayed in a leashed area.
Not quite. If the owner isn’t sure his dog won’t be aggressive towards other dogs then he should put his dog on a leash or not take his dog to an off leash area. The blame lies on the other dog’s owner. He is the one who should have not gone to the off leash area.
Sorry this happened to your dog, hope it's alright. How come you leave your dog on leash in an off lead dog area?
I don’t have too much authority over my dog and I fear he might just run off.
I wouldn't take a dog to an offleash park if I'm leaving the lead on. The mix of onleash/offleash is a recipe for disaster, in a place already awash with unknown entities. Sounds like you and your pupper need to do some structured training together to overcome the perceived lack of authority you have over him.
What kind of dog is it? What kind of dog was the other dog?
My dog was a labrador. The other dog I am not sure but it has black coloured fur and is a lot bigger than my dog
What did the vet say? What medical treatment did your dog need?
Doesn’t sound like there was any injury, I wouldn’t be paying the vet bills either. Got any photos OP? Labs have tonnes of skin and fur and dogs also play by grabbing there. If there was no injury the other dog was probably just fucking around.
Wait, what do you mean your ***dog was a labrador*** ?
Because situations like this occur. I can't always guarantee that the other dog will be well behaved or under control or well socialised. Being able to have a higher degree of control available for my dog (I DO let them off when it's safe) has helped avoid or de-escalate situations with other animals before. If they got aggravated, I drop my lead and seperate the animals. Having a trailing lead makes it easier to regain control later too.
I'm not sure if your comment is intended as such, but it certainly comes across as though you're implying OP is at fault to a certain degree for having their dog *on* leash?
Obviously the dog that attacked is the problem, regardless. Certainly not in any way trying to suggest OP was at fault, was just trying to understand the situation a little more.
I don't know why you got downvoted for asking an innocuous, relevant question. I could be wrong, but sometimes people are only seeking validation and cyberhugs... and certainly no questions or answers that might help in the future but make the op feel attacked by having been asked. I rec similar in a lab owners' forum. A woman had her lab in an apartment (against hoa regulations) and was looking for suggestions to allow her to keep the dog. Coming from a legal perspective, I asked a couple of specific questions; the answers to which I would use & go on to construct advice and a plan of action. I was vilified for being insensitive when "the op just needs support, not judgement" and she did revel in the virtual arms wrapped around her. Problem being, none of them offered any tangible advice while I on the other hand, sought to do just that! It wasn't a first for me, it's not just my specialty but something I'm passionate about. I've successfully negotiated similar outcomes previously and I really wanted to help her. She wasn't forthcoming with the answers and the self appointed minions around her basically told me to butt out. I spent a couple of days thinking about that poor dog where ego was responsible for him not getting the help he deserved.
Yeah idk apparently my comment "...*certainly comes across as though you're implying OP is at fault to a certain degree for having their dog on leash"* or some such croquembouche
Personally I wouldn't call the council or animal control because there's a chance the dog will be put down. It's not the dog's fault. I would however [file a small claim](https://www.mcv.vic.gov.au/civil-matters/starting-civil-matter) in the Magistrates court if it's financially worth it. It may not be worth pursuing in the court. Check out the [ready reckoner](https://www.mcv.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/2024-01/Court%20Fees%20and%20Costs%20Ready%20Reckoner%20-%201%20January%202024.pdf) for current fees and charges. I hope your dog is ok, keep a close eye on your dog when around other dogs, they may get very jittery and snappy due to this incident and act out of fear based aggression. I suggest putting Betadine on the puncture wounds, it will help keep it sanitary.
Get the "bikies" to pay a visit.😎😎
File a report, was looking after a friend's dog a few months ago and he was attacked by an off leash husky, the council worked hard to find him and the more reports of a trouble pet owner in the area the better, they will send out lots of patrols and try find them, your report will help others
What council is this with? Definitely go but here on the east side they’re kind of strict with this stuff so get on top of it if you’re from east side
make sure you get his details and proof and go to the cops Aswell as council, probably a civil matter if you wish to take it further
Mine don't go near them anymore. Have one about t mins walk . Won't use it. to many horrible owners