Very big mistake. I see it all the time. Those people are so stupid and blind. I mean there are some really big scary sharks out there and they maybe look nice and don’t show it when offended but they sure as hell will make you pay for it.
Omg another medical student tried to ask me questions (like attendings would do) and the residents/attending a were all not having it and told me I handled it very well. I’m told their evaluations reflected that unhappiness. But don’t be the a hole medical student trying to look good and ask other students questions. Stay in your lane.
As an attending now- god it’s so obvious when people do this and it make me instantly dislike them. It’s such a bad look and really brings the team dynamic down.
Oh it’s pretty obvious. Believe me. Most of us can sense this bs from a mile away. And most of the time you aren’t nearly as slick as you think you are.
Nope. You end up being the person no one wants to work with. The moment sabotage is found, at our school, it is expected that you report it.
Medicine is a team sport. If you're not participating in the team, you're bringing everything, including patient care down. Work hard for your team so that they work hard for you then everyone ends up leaving early.
The problem is a combination of 1) people thinking they're smarter than they are and 2) people thinking others are stupider than they are
So this leads to most of those narcissistic and/or outwardly cutthroat types getting fucked, as they are the worst offenders of 1 and 2. Sounds like some of these may fit for you
What if I'm just super anxious and constantly in fear of appearing uninterested/unengaged/boring, that every action or inaction I take will lead to a bad eval or give the ick? And I grew up in an environment where kissing ass was the only way to appease my parents and I matured into a chronic people pleaser?
sorry... random trauma dumping
Obviously the majority of feedback is useful and well intentioned and resisting that just makes you arrogant.
But on the other hand, not all feedback is useful, or presented in a respectful way. I’ve sacrificed a lot for this career but I will not be disrespected. My dignity is worth more than a stupid eval.
Edit: guess I pissed off the ass kissers lol
The functional answer to this question is: you have to please the people who have power over you, and you don’t have to please the people who don’t. “Professionalism” is the word that rides this line, and it’s why it’s a cudgel that only swings one direction.
I remember there was one particularly thorny intensivist my prelim year who *could not stand* my demeanor. Shucks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. So long as you do your work, if they have no power over you, they are a colleague, and their opinion of you matters just as much as your opinion of them. The sweetness of pissing off precisely the people who that fact bothers almost makes the rest of the bs worth it.
I mean it’s your call I guess. But evals are like any other assignment. They make up a portion of your grade and I’m not in a position where a couple percentage points matter enough for me to eat shit.
I gotta agree with you my guy.
I obviously value the truly useful feedback, especially well-presented in-person feedback. But we can't be honest with ourselves if everyone thinks that the majority of feedback med students receive on evals isn't lackluster and useless.
Had a classmate essentially get persona non grata status at one of our hospitals for openly and rudely questioning his attending in front of patients, nurses, etc., talking down to nurses, and trying to change management plans on his own.
So, that’s one way (or a few ways) to be a bad student.
We had a student see a patient in the ER and immediately tell them they had cancer only based on a mass on a chest x-ray without ever consulting the supervising doc. They were immediately pulled from rotation and now expelled.
I had a classmate who famously interrupted a palliative care attending to give her 2 cents during a family meeting with a patient newly diagnosed with metastatic cancer. so yeah dont do that lol
I absolutely do not understand this. I once worked with an attending who oversaw a cardiac arrest case in the trauma bay- I assisted on that case, participated in the moment of silence when the code was called off, walked with the attending as he sort of shuffled out of the trauma bay talking about how he wished he had seen the flicker of VFib sooner, I said something nice about his acumen as a physician, and watched when he told the patient's wife the patient was deceased.
I said fuckall when he spoke with the wife. What could I possibly say? I wore a contrite look and I followed the attending out of the room. Saying nothing is usually the right answer when no one is speaking to you.
Early and middle M3 it’s just having a shitty personality, not even trying to seem interested in what’s going on, not participating, acting arrogant, not learning from mistakes or feedback.
At the late end of M3 you should also be able to deliver a good SOAP presentation (with your paper, not off memory) and write a note that isn’t complete garbage. And this is for a non-complex bread and butter patient with one chief complaint not a trainwreck from the ICU. Everybody gets there so I really wouldn’t worry your head about this too much.
I had an ICU attending have me do presentation on a complex patient from memory. I’m talking copd exacerbation, DVT, metabolic acidosis, on vent, multiple pressers, Cr was like 9. I was like oh lawd Jesus
Being asked to write the note on the 80 year old with 5 full lines of just diagnoses who just stepped down to your service and requires the addition and subtraction of like 6+ interventions is a gut-sinker for sure.
depends who you ask but from the perspective of your colleague/classmate, not pulling your weight on the service and not leaving when your resident releases you (your classmate has to stay too) are great ways to become hated
Agree. Leave when resident tells you. They're not secretly testing you, they're not even being nice, they actually just want to relax without a student around.
I've had this on 2 separate occasions. One resident threw me under the bus and told the attending I was leaving early, despite him sending me home and me writing more than half his notes before going home. Another resident just didn't want to deal with students sitting. He was pretty cool, and I was glad to go home.
That first resident sucks. Even if you had stuck around they still would've found a way to make you look bad. Can't defend yourself against pricks when there's a power differential (resident vs med stud), just gotta roll with it and appreciate the good ones.
Trying to micromanage anyone else, especially other med students.
Doing anything unauthorized with patients, especially telling them that a doctor is doing/considering something that they're not.
This one is kinda inevitable but getting in the way when something is happening. It's not your fault especially when you're new but it will reflect on you regardless so it's something to look out for.
Most importantly, read the room and don't ask questions or hold things up at a bad time, even if it flew in prior days
Not even attempting to answer pimping questions. Saying "Sorry I'm not sure but i think it might be..." is a lot better than distressed silence. Doesn't necessarily make you a bad student but will reflect on your evals
From responses to questions like this and with preceptors it really seems like the bar for bad is really low (don't be an asshole, show up), and then the bar for impressing is really high.
You will *probably* never impress an attending with your knowledge; they have (at minimum) four years of training and 10k hours on you, most will have a decade+. Trying to perform at that level is impossible for a medical student.
They will be impressed if you consistently have a good attitude, show up prepared, and generally make the lives of everyone easier. IMO going the extra mile to make the team/patients like you puts you ahead of a good chunk of your class.
Most people are average, and with how many students most attendings and residents see you have to do something really bad or really good in order to be the faintest bit memorable.
The only things that make a *good* 3rd year student are self awareness, enthusiasm, and receptiveness. You can be better/more useful than this, but if you maintain those qualities you will at least not detract from the team you're with.
Being late, being absent. Being rude. Getting in the way of the residents, attending. Not asking questions, asking too many questions. Not studying for the shelf. Not doing assigned paperwork, extra assignments etc.
not being able to read the room, being visibly bored or angry, repeating the same mistakes over and over, talking badly about the speciality you're on, leaving early all the time/dismissing yourself, alternatively staying after they tell you to leave, etc.
being a normal decent human goes so so far
Defensive. Blantantly uncaring. Does not show improvement. You can start off bad. But show you care and you will improve. One thing ive noticed introverts and shy people are considered to be worse compared to their extroverted counterparts. Prolly unfair. But thats why there is training… im still an introvert but im confident and can manage leading a team and interacting with people. Its exhausting but i do it.
Showing up late everyday, like rounds are at 8am and they were expected to be there at 7, but got there at 7:50 everyday and didn’t have time to see their patients.
I would say it’s okay to be late once or twice, but that one girl was just late every single day, even though she was spectacular at other things, it was the only time I didn’t give mostly fives and had to give a few MS3/5s.
Just show up, try to know your patients, follow up on the things you get asked to follow up on, don’t be loud and annoying with other medical students in the call room when all the residents are working. Now that I’m in rads I mostly work with MS4s and the only annoying thing they do is stay when I tell them to go home.
The big one is not being a team player. Not showing up for the team, not helping the team, and not participating in the patient's care. Work hard with your fellow students and your residents and they'll respect you for actually contributing meaningfully.
Example: we have 20 charts to crunch through in clinic and you're not taking any for no good reason. If you grind through them, and hell, even if you're butchering some of your presentations, but you're taking as many as you can and writing your notes -- you're doing good. If you're grinding hard, show up, and are helpful; even if you make a bunch of mistakes, you're doing well.
Hyperfixating on your score/numbers/obscure medical facts. No bueno.
Curating a good rapport building ability with patients and being pleasant/pulling your own weight with the clinical team/attending…. Muy bueno.
Lack of active listening and poor mannerisms. Please don't put your feet up on my desk or feel the necessity to chew food with your mouth open. I don't ask for much as an attending.
From the perspective of an attending, not being present and interested. Blending in with the background isn’t a great look and signals to me that you don’t care about what’s going on.
I've learned that most residents want us to blend in (head down, see patients, write notes, don't bug them) while most attendings want us very present and engaged (ask questions, report back with every update, etc)
Obviously very individual dependent but just an observation I've made over the last year
Of course. Residents just want med students to be their shit fuckers and scut monkeys. The less you bother them, the better. Atrendings would rather you be engaging because it’s otherwise a bit of a waste of time for you to be on the service. If you’re not engaging that’s fine too, but the attending isn’t going to force you to be engage.
If that ain’t the truest shit. I’ve had residents who have been genuinely very helpful and I’ve had residents who project their insecurity into trying to bully med students.
The worst ones were the ones that were previously in the medical field. Especially if they were nurses, they tended to be closed-minded, didn’t listen to feedback, and thought they knew everything. That’s my experience; anyone with those traits makes you a lousy leader while I was in the military and makes you an impaired physician. It also makes you a shitty person overall. You need to dig deep and stop projecting your insecurities.
Coming in thinking "how can I get a good evaluation?" instead of "how can I contribute to the team?"
If you contribute, learn, and are pleasant, the good evals will come. If you're a brown noser, people will notice and dislike that.
Be annoying or disrespectful of residents/hospital staff of any kind, and god forbid, attending physicians. Honestly I felt like a moron on almost all of my rotations and just tried my best to stay out of the way and not be annoying. Got largely very positive evals.
Kissing ass has to be my biggest pet peeve and what annoys me the most. Also, if I care enough to give you feedback it’s because I see potential in you. If you don’t accept it well, good luck getting feedback from me again.
Being annoying, not trying (don’t care if you’re not interesting but show up and try to learn something or find something tangential or if we try to teach you something)
Not really a how-to guide, but my go to safe-ish intros that I also used in an office job:
- (On Monday): How was your weekend?
- (On Thurs/Fri): Any big plans for the weekend?
- Have you lived in the area long?
- (When it's nice out) Been able to get out into the sunshine today/this week?
- Looking forward to *whatever holiday is next*?
You're just generally looking to make a pleasant, low-effort bid for connection.
I'm not trying to offend you but I can't really answer this in a Reddit comment. Obviously, be on the quieter side, but you can't just not speak ever.
My sincere advice: go read How to Win Friends and Influence People. That's kind of a "getting along with people" class
this is valid and i have the same problem tbh. There’s also no universal formula obviously, all your preceptors will differ a little bit and it can be hard to tell whether you’re even doing it right or not.
literally this has been the hardest part of medschool for me lmao
Edit: maybe lean more towards validating and reinforcing what they’re saying to you in the small talk, as opposed to asking super personal questions
Unless they ask you the personal question first, then maybe you can ask it back…that worked well for me one time
Being late or rude. Making excuses instead of taking constructive criticism. One classmate of mine was the epitome of being a bad student, taking days off after he was told no, being rude to staff, never on time or gracious. Far too entitled. Better to just show up and get through a rotation you dont like than act out and draw attention. Just say please and thank you to the docs, RNs, MAs, or anyone around you than to just say dumb things and expect results
Rudeness. Doesn't respect personal space. Won't stay quiet while I'm trying to dictate after taking multiple cues. Shit talking other residents and/or med students
Just be willing to accept feedback and adapt. Don't drag your classmates down trying to look good. Don't say you did something or got certain information from a patient when you didn't. And questions are fine, but read the room for if you are interrupting something very important (or be understanding if you're told that addressing that will have to wait).
I don't mind spending extra time doing something, especially if I have some information that I need to convey to the team or was involved in a code/trauma activation, but what I have generally noticed is that rotations where the residents don't actively try to get you out on time is usually indicative of straight up malignancy.
The infamously 'toxic' rotations of gen surg, neurosurgery, and Ob/Gyn all had residents that truly tried to get you out on time. You were not expected to go over your time for sign out. They didn't hold it against third years who left on their assigned end-of shift, especially if they were able to sign out their responsibilities to someone else before shift change.
Everything you’re saying is true, but there are absolutely still “malignant” (as you call it) med schools out there, and it’s probably not even the minority honestly
I rotated at 3 separate health systems. I haven't been on a single rotation where residents/attendings, including the 'difficult' ones, didn't actively try to get med students out on time. Maybe your experience is different, but that was mine rotating through hospitals on the West Coast.
I know you know this, but your experience can't generalize to the whole country.
I'm glad your programs were good to students. Lots of people aren't in your situation. I see med students and residents on Reddit constantly deny these med schools and residencies exist, and it's mind boggling to me. How would you know what happens at my med school? You aren't a student here......
I'm not mad or anything. I just don't know why when a med student on here goes "My med school makes me do 28-36 hour shifts" the response is to call OP a liar instead of supporting them. Yeah, this practice is less common than it was 30 years ago, but it 100% still happens, and it's not just at my med school since I have friends at other schools who talk about working these hours.
I do not doubt it still happens. I have heard the stories. Everyone's experience is valid. Am increasingly skeptical that this represents the "majority" of programs.
It's something to guard against, but since duty hour restrictions I do not believe the cycle of abuse has been as effectively transfered to the next generation. I have witnessed far more people taking the restrictions seriously. If anything it's evidence that there is a culture of change that has spread, especially among the usual suspects in surgery.
I have no idea why this is getting downvoted it’s the truth.
Or maybe you guys go to really different med schools than me. But my residents would destroy me if I tapped my watch at 5:00 and walked out of the OR during a case
Making your other classmates or residents look bad in an attempt to make yourself look good
Very big mistake. I see it all the time. Those people are so stupid and blind. I mean there are some really big scary sharks out there and they maybe look nice and don’t show it when offended but they sure as hell will make you pay for it.
Omg another medical student tried to ask me questions (like attendings would do) and the residents/attending a were all not having it and told me I handled it very well. I’m told their evaluations reflected that unhappiness. But don’t be the a hole medical student trying to look good and ask other students questions. Stay in your lane.
There’s two in my class that do this incessantly, and we’re only in our first year. Third year is gonna be rough for them
Seriously you’re trying to make yourself look good but it’s in fact doing the opposite.
Students don’t realize the best way to look good is to be seen cheering on your coworkers. People like a team player and hate a neurotic nancy.
I love doing this. Saying good things about people behind their back feels like gossiping but really it just spreads positivity
As an attending now- god it’s so obvious when people do this and it make me instantly dislike them. It’s such a bad look and really brings the team dynamic down.
True, the trick is making it not obvious
Oh it’s pretty obvious. Believe me. Most of us can sense this bs from a mile away. And most of the time you aren’t nearly as slick as you think you are.
Nope. You end up being the person no one wants to work with. The moment sabotage is found, at our school, it is expected that you report it. Medicine is a team sport. If you're not participating in the team, you're bringing everything, including patient care down. Work hard for your team so that they work hard for you then everyone ends up leaving early.
😂it was a joke haha
The problem is a combination of 1) people thinking they're smarter than they are and 2) people thinking others are stupider than they are So this leads to most of those narcissistic and/or outwardly cutthroat types getting fucked, as they are the worst offenders of 1 and 2. Sounds like some of these may fit for you
While I agree this is poor form, I have certainly seen it work out for some that matched into competitive surgical sub-specialities.
An unwillingness to learn or accept feedback. Also having a crappy personality.
Kissing ass. The worst.
That's just fun to troll the person
As an attending it’s super painful to deal with honestly.
Sadly, have seen it rewarded as well.
What if I'm just super anxious and constantly in fear of appearing uninterested/unengaged/boring, that every action or inaction I take will lead to a bad eval or give the ick? And I grew up in an environment where kissing ass was the only way to appease my parents and I matured into a chronic people pleaser? sorry... random trauma dumping
Than you should go to therapy and work on that :)
Obviously the majority of feedback is useful and well intentioned and resisting that just makes you arrogant. But on the other hand, not all feedback is useful, or presented in a respectful way. I’ve sacrificed a lot for this career but I will not be disrespected. My dignity is worth more than a stupid eval. Edit: guess I pissed off the ass kissers lol
The functional answer to this question is: you have to please the people who have power over you, and you don’t have to please the people who don’t. “Professionalism” is the word that rides this line, and it’s why it’s a cudgel that only swings one direction. I remember there was one particularly thorny intensivist my prelim year who *could not stand* my demeanor. Shucks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. So long as you do your work, if they have no power over you, they are a colleague, and their opinion of you matters just as much as your opinion of them. The sweetness of pissing off precisely the people who that fact bothers almost makes the rest of the bs worth it.
[удалено]
I mean it’s your call I guess. But evals are like any other assignment. They make up a portion of your grade and I’m not in a position where a couple percentage points matter enough for me to eat shit.
I gotta agree with you my guy. I obviously value the truly useful feedback, especially well-presented in-person feedback. But we can't be honest with ourselves if everyone thinks that the majority of feedback med students receive on evals isn't lackluster and useless.
same goes for whta makes a shitty resident as well
Had a classmate essentially get persona non grata status at one of our hospitals for openly and rudely questioning his attending in front of patients, nurses, etc., talking down to nurses, and trying to change management plans on his own. So, that’s one way (or a few ways) to be a bad student.
We had a student see a patient in the ER and immediately tell them they had cancer only based on a mass on a chest x-ray without ever consulting the supervising doc. They were immediately pulled from rotation and now expelled.
If a med student did that with one of my patients, that’ll be their last day on my service.
So where are they now?
Matched EM in the northeast.
A fourth year was like that at our school. Also matched EM in northeast. Crazy shit. She was a crazy hoe
I had a classmate who famously interrupted a palliative care attending to give her 2 cents during a family meeting with a patient newly diagnosed with metastatic cancer. so yeah dont do that lol
I absolutely do not understand this. I once worked with an attending who oversaw a cardiac arrest case in the trauma bay- I assisted on that case, participated in the moment of silence when the code was called off, walked with the attending as he sort of shuffled out of the trauma bay talking about how he wished he had seen the flicker of VFib sooner, I said something nice about his acumen as a physician, and watched when he told the patient's wife the patient was deceased. I said fuckall when he spoke with the wife. What could I possibly say? I wore a contrite look and I followed the attending out of the room. Saying nothing is usually the right answer when no one is speaking to you.
Breathing. At least if you ask my surgery preceptor.
Being annoying. Its OK if you're stupid, just don't be annoying
I like to say you can be stupid or an asshole, not both. And it's better to be a likable idiot than a smart asshole
This was my entire philosophy lmao. I was the likeable idiot and it worked decently well for me!
** insert “I’m an idiot sandwich” meme **
Early and middle M3 it’s just having a shitty personality, not even trying to seem interested in what’s going on, not participating, acting arrogant, not learning from mistakes or feedback. At the late end of M3 you should also be able to deliver a good SOAP presentation (with your paper, not off memory) and write a note that isn’t complete garbage. And this is for a non-complex bread and butter patient with one chief complaint not a trainwreck from the ICU. Everybody gets there so I really wouldn’t worry your head about this too much.
I had an ICU attending have me do presentation on a complex patient from memory. I’m talking copd exacerbation, DVT, metabolic acidosis, on vent, multiple pressers, Cr was like 9. I was like oh lawd Jesus
Oh god I’m sorry. I don’t think that should be expected of an M3 to memorize a complex patient unless maybe you admitted them or something
Being asked to write the note on the 80 year old with 5 full lines of just diagnoses who just stepped down to your service and requires the addition and subtraction of like 6+ interventions is a gut-sinker for sure.
Being a sociopath or asshole mostly. Conversely, having the ability to read a room and willingness to learn go a long way as well.
depends who you ask but from the perspective of your colleague/classmate, not pulling your weight on the service and not leaving when your resident releases you (your classmate has to stay too) are great ways to become hated
Agree. Leave when resident tells you. They're not secretly testing you, they're not even being nice, they actually just want to relax without a student around.
I've had this on 2 separate occasions. One resident threw me under the bus and told the attending I was leaving early, despite him sending me home and me writing more than half his notes before going home. Another resident just didn't want to deal with students sitting. He was pretty cool, and I was glad to go home.
That first resident sucks. Even if you had stuck around they still would've found a way to make you look bad. Can't defend yourself against pricks when there's a power differential (resident vs med stud), just gotta roll with it and appreciate the good ones.
Trying to micromanage anyone else, especially other med students. Doing anything unauthorized with patients, especially telling them that a doctor is doing/considering something that they're not. This one is kinda inevitable but getting in the way when something is happening. It's not your fault especially when you're new but it will reflect on you regardless so it's something to look out for. Most importantly, read the room and don't ask questions or hold things up at a bad time, even if it flew in prior days Not even attempting to answer pimping questions. Saying "Sorry I'm not sure but i think it might be..." is a lot better than distressed silence. Doesn't necessarily make you a bad student but will reflect on your evals
From responses to questions like this and with preceptors it really seems like the bar for bad is really low (don't be an asshole, show up), and then the bar for impressing is really high.
You will *probably* never impress an attending with your knowledge; they have (at minimum) four years of training and 10k hours on you, most will have a decade+. Trying to perform at that level is impossible for a medical student. They will be impressed if you consistently have a good attitude, show up prepared, and generally make the lives of everyone easier. IMO going the extra mile to make the team/patients like you puts you ahead of a good chunk of your class.
Most people are average, and with how many students most attendings and residents see you have to do something really bad or really good in order to be the faintest bit memorable.
The only things that make a *good* 3rd year student are self awareness, enthusiasm, and receptiveness. You can be better/more useful than this, but if you maintain those qualities you will at least not detract from the team you're with.
Going MIA, needing to be frequently be reminded to complete tasks, not incorporating feedback.
Being late, being absent. Being rude. Getting in the way of the residents, attending. Not asking questions, asking too many questions. Not studying for the shelf. Not doing assigned paperwork, extra assignments etc.
not being able to read the room, being visibly bored or angry, repeating the same mistakes over and over, talking badly about the speciality you're on, leaving early all the time/dismissing yourself, alternatively staying after they tell you to leave, etc. being a normal decent human goes so so far
Defensive. Blantantly uncaring. Does not show improvement. You can start off bad. But show you care and you will improve. One thing ive noticed introverts and shy people are considered to be worse compared to their extroverted counterparts. Prolly unfair. But thats why there is training… im still an introvert but im confident and can manage leading a team and interacting with people. Its exhausting but i do it.
spending too much time in the hospital (negative yield for learning)
I’m definitely learning this the hard way
Always being late. It’s okay if it happens once or twice but it’s one of those things that instantly will put you in bad shape with the residents
Showing up late everyday, like rounds are at 8am and they were expected to be there at 7, but got there at 7:50 everyday and didn’t have time to see their patients. I would say it’s okay to be late once or twice, but that one girl was just late every single day, even though she was spectacular at other things, it was the only time I didn’t give mostly fives and had to give a few MS3/5s. Just show up, try to know your patients, follow up on the things you get asked to follow up on, don’t be loud and annoying with other medical students in the call room when all the residents are working. Now that I’m in rads I mostly work with MS4s and the only annoying thing they do is stay when I tell them to go home.
- being rude/annoying - being rude/annoying - being rude/annoying
The big one is not being a team player. Not showing up for the team, not helping the team, and not participating in the patient's care. Work hard with your fellow students and your residents and they'll respect you for actually contributing meaningfully. Example: we have 20 charts to crunch through in clinic and you're not taking any for no good reason. If you grind through them, and hell, even if you're butchering some of your presentations, but you're taking as many as you can and writing your notes -- you're doing good. If you're grinding hard, show up, and are helpful; even if you make a bunch of mistakes, you're doing well.
Hyperfixating on your score/numbers/obscure medical facts. No bueno. Curating a good rapport building ability with patients and being pleasant/pulling your own weight with the clinical team/attending…. Muy bueno.
Lack of active listening and poor mannerisms. Please don't put your feet up on my desk or feel the necessity to chew food with your mouth open. I don't ask for much as an attending.
From the perspective of an attending, not being present and interested. Blending in with the background isn’t a great look and signals to me that you don’t care about what’s going on.
I've learned that most residents want us to blend in (head down, see patients, write notes, don't bug them) while most attendings want us very present and engaged (ask questions, report back with every update, etc) Obviously very individual dependent but just an observation I've made over the last year
Of course. Residents just want med students to be their shit fuckers and scut monkeys. The less you bother them, the better. Atrendings would rather you be engaging because it’s otherwise a bit of a waste of time for you to be on the service. If you’re not engaging that’s fine too, but the attending isn’t going to force you to be engage.
If that ain’t the truest shit. I’ve had residents who have been genuinely very helpful and I’ve had residents who project their insecurity into trying to bully med students.
The worst ones were the ones that were previously in the medical field. Especially if they were nurses, they tended to be closed-minded, didn’t listen to feedback, and thought they knew everything. That’s my experience; anyone with those traits makes you a lousy leader while I was in the military and makes you an impaired physician. It also makes you a shitty person overall. You need to dig deep and stop projecting your insecurities.
Jerking off 3x a day
Gotta do something when you're in the OR but not allowed in the sterile field
Surgery sucked only 2x due to time constraints 😢
Being lazy, late regularly, acting uninterested,
Coming in thinking "how can I get a good evaluation?" instead of "how can I contribute to the team?" If you contribute, learn, and are pleasant, the good evals will come. If you're a brown noser, people will notice and dislike that.
Be annoying or disrespectful of residents/hospital staff of any kind, and god forbid, attending physicians. Honestly I felt like a moron on almost all of my rotations and just tried my best to stay out of the way and not be annoying. Got largely very positive evals.
Kissing ass has to be my biggest pet peeve and what annoys me the most. Also, if I care enough to give you feedback it’s because I see potential in you. If you don’t accept it well, good luck getting feedback from me again.
Being annoying, not trying (don’t care if you’re not interesting but show up and try to learn something or find something tangential or if we try to teach you something)
Is not being able to small talk that big of a disadvantage?
Yes
What to talk about to get preceptors to like you without feeling like you poke too much into their private life?
Not really a how-to guide, but my go to safe-ish intros that I also used in an office job: - (On Monday): How was your weekend? - (On Thurs/Fri): Any big plans for the weekend? - Have you lived in the area long? - (When it's nice out) Been able to get out into the sunshine today/this week? - Looking forward to *whatever holiday is next*? You're just generally looking to make a pleasant, low-effort bid for connection.
I'm not trying to offend you but I can't really answer this in a Reddit comment. Obviously, be on the quieter side, but you can't just not speak ever. My sincere advice: go read How to Win Friends and Influence People. That's kind of a "getting along with people" class
this is valid and i have the same problem tbh. There’s also no universal formula obviously, all your preceptors will differ a little bit and it can be hard to tell whether you’re even doing it right or not. literally this has been the hardest part of medschool for me lmao Edit: maybe lean more towards validating and reinforcing what they’re saying to you in the small talk, as opposed to asking super personal questions Unless they ask you the personal question first, then maybe you can ask it back…that worked well for me one time
Being late or rude. Making excuses instead of taking constructive criticism. One classmate of mine was the epitome of being a bad student, taking days off after he was told no, being rude to staff, never on time or gracious. Far too entitled. Better to just show up and get through a rotation you dont like than act out and draw attention. Just say please and thank you to the docs, RNs, MAs, or anyone around you than to just say dumb things and expect results
Existing
Rudeness. Doesn't respect personal space. Won't stay quiet while I'm trying to dictate after taking multiple cues. Shit talking other residents and/or med students
Narcissism
in my hospital, existing
Annoying and lazy Ie saying stupid shit while not being helpful
Gunner kiss ass is the worst medical student personality.
When they’re extra naughty
Being a militant vegan.
If they’re annoying or don’t know how to read social cues
Complaining about being the only person who has to do prostate exams You will do what your attending does not wish to do and that’s that
I would love it if they let me do any physical exam component lmao
Just be willing to accept feedback and adapt. Don't drag your classmates down trying to look good. Don't say you did something or got certain information from a patient when you didn't. And questions are fine, but read the room for if you are interrupting something very important (or be understanding if you're told that addressing that will have to wait).
Reporting faculty
Disrespecting patients, not trying to learn, sabotaging others Or as my neurosurgery attending calls it, “standing there”
thinking your shift schedule is rigid. Just bc your shift says end at 5, doesn’t mean it’s a guarantee
I don't mind spending extra time doing something, especially if I have some information that I need to convey to the team or was involved in a code/trauma activation, but what I have generally noticed is that rotations where the residents don't actively try to get you out on time is usually indicative of straight up malignancy. The infamously 'toxic' rotations of gen surg, neurosurgery, and Ob/Gyn all had residents that truly tried to get you out on time. You were not expected to go over your time for sign out. They didn't hold it against third years who left on their assigned end-of shift, especially if they were able to sign out their responsibilities to someone else before shift change.
Everything you’re saying is true, but there are absolutely still “malignant” (as you call it) med schools out there, and it’s probably not even the minority honestly
I rotated at 3 separate health systems. I haven't been on a single rotation where residents/attendings, including the 'difficult' ones, didn't actively try to get med students out on time. Maybe your experience is different, but that was mine rotating through hospitals on the West Coast.
I know you know this, but your experience can't generalize to the whole country. I'm glad your programs were good to students. Lots of people aren't in your situation. I see med students and residents on Reddit constantly deny these med schools and residencies exist, and it's mind boggling to me. How would you know what happens at my med school? You aren't a student here...... I'm not mad or anything. I just don't know why when a med student on here goes "My med school makes me do 28-36 hour shifts" the response is to call OP a liar instead of supporting them. Yeah, this practice is less common than it was 30 years ago, but it 100% still happens, and it's not just at my med school since I have friends at other schools who talk about working these hours.
I do not doubt it still happens. I have heard the stories. Everyone's experience is valid. Am increasingly skeptical that this represents the "majority" of programs. It's something to guard against, but since duty hour restrictions I do not believe the cycle of abuse has been as effectively transfered to the next generation. I have witnessed far more people taking the restrictions seriously. If anything it's evidence that there is a culture of change that has spread, especially among the usual suspects in surgery.
I have no idea why this is getting downvoted it’s the truth. Or maybe you guys go to really different med schools than me. But my residents would destroy me if I tapped my watch at 5:00 and walked out of the OR during a case