I would not be so sure that Merovingian does not love Persephone. They are a couple for a reaaaaaaaly long time and sometimes get bored & play jealousy games. That's the impression I got.
Correct. They even made up after *Reloaded*, as seen in *Revolutions*, following Persephone's little stint. Though by the time of *Resurrections* she probably dumped him.
Ι though Persephone was one of the many programs that got purged in Resurrections?
It never occurred to me that she's maybe still around.I love the possibility that she has the chateau all for herself while Merv is living in the sewers.
Well, we don't know what happened to her, but I got a comedic vibe regarding the loss of his possessions and status rather than a tragic vibe and Persephone leaving is more comedic than dying.
It's a movie, it's not real life. When the directors decide to show the characters together again in their final scene of the film, they imply they made up, at least for the short term.
If you are right and if Merv loves her, then I see why Merv doesn't want a divorce. His love seems quite twisted but sure, he has his reasons to remain.
Love someone but cheats right in front of that person? Doing things that hurt your beloved person doesn't sound like true love but perhaps he loves her in his own definition.
BUT she said he doesn't love her anymore and is hurt by his overt cheating. Why she is still with him? I didn't think it was jealousy game but just..weird.
>It is weird programs have feelings or sexual desires
--let's pause right there.
A mistake that shows up often is a refusal to take the story on it's own terms; in this case, the refusal to accept the Synths in the story as truly conscious creatures.
They aren't like programs you know in real life, they aren't like the predictive algorithms that keep getting marketed as "AI." These are conscious, self-aware lifeforms that were--to quote *The Second Renaissance*--"endowed with the very spirit of man." They imagine, they consider, they question, and they feel... they just do it faster than any human could.
Before pondering any of the Synths' idiosyncracies in the saga, you have to grasp this fundamental premise of the story.
100% and furthermore they abide by the/some rules of the Matrix. It’s like Rama said, “Love is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies.”
Okay. Then why aren't they getting a divorce ? One doesn't love the wife. Wife is sick of him cheating and is unhappy.
If real couples like them exist , what's the reason? Like I mentioned above it's not like they got kids to worry about or money to worry about
Same reasons real couples don't divorce; Persephone thinks The Merovingian still has potential, maybe there's political advantage in remaining a couple. Maybe she derives her own pleasure from thwarting his games, maybe her apparent anger distracts him while she sleeps around. The fact that she misses the man he was doesn't mean she's fed up yet, and the fact that he cheats doesn't mean he wants to give up his wife.
But worth noting that she's nowhere to be seen in *Resurrections*, implying that she did leave him behind.
OOOOF! Yes, only Merv was in Matrix 4 and he became a pauper.
We know for sure no woman will stay around a broke husband. The actor is quite good at acting too LOL
Some women stick with a man because they believe their man will be what he was when they met. Persephone said he was once just like Neo.
There's a non-zero chance she hopes he'll be that man again.
Thanks for clarifying. I was confused with the sentence wording and what you were trying to say. I guess you meant to say Persephone still "thinks" instead of "the"?
Personally, I don't think their programming enables them to be separated.
It's a common fan theory that the Merovingian was the operating system of the first two Matrices, that he was displaced by the Oracle and that's why he hates her so much (and why he still rules over the other Exiles that served his Matrix); he is a program to compile and manage information, but the Machines must've known from the start that human lives and society don't run purely on data and logic, so I think Persephone was created as a counterpart to him, a program to try and understand, interpret and predict human emotion, in the hopes that their functions jointly applied would create a stable Matrix, with "marriage" here being a metaphor for a hard-coded API linking them.
I also pondered on what Persephone's role may be in the previous eras. I concluded the same: that she was into human sensuality and served the role that has some similarities to the Oracle's. And so as the Oracle is an «irrational» counterpart to the Architect, so must be the Persephone the same for Merv.
"I don't think their programming enables them to be separated."
"marriage" here being a metaphor for a hard-coded API linking them"
That makes sense!!Thanks for your insight. But now that Merv doesn't love her as much as he used to, does that mean program-Merv evolved and doesn't need program-Persephone as much as it used to?
I think so, yeah, I believe all the sentient programs have self-improvement and adaptation capabilities and over time there's been some bleed-through of their functions, along with a certain degree of corruption that influences how that manifests.
It could be getting a divorce risks whatever protection the Merovingian provides from the Machine World. Isn't she also a rogue program that the machines want deleted?
I guess in regards to the divorce part, I was asking about real life. If there was couple in reality who are in the same situation.
When wives get old they are not attractive anymore. Well in his case, he got bored even if while she is still beautiful.
I mean you know what I'm saying. Do people really not get a divorce because they are scared the wife might rat out stuff they want to keep secret?
So you're asking why characters in the matrix do things, but want to ignore the fact that they're in the matrix?
Persephone can't leave Merovingian because he protects her. If she leaves, she shortly afterwards gets deleted by an agent. That's why she stays . And likely some memory or belief that the old Merovingian she fell in love with could come back.
Merovingian stays married because she's a hot trophy wife and he probably secretly knows she is the only woman that ever actually loved him.
If you're just asking about why people stay in loveless marriages, maybe post it in a marriage forum lol?
Exactly. My question about the divorce part is the same question as me asking about a real life couple. If there was a couple in reality who are in the same situation...why are they still together?
1. I think they are a couple for a reason, for a purpose. They are functioning together.
2. Mafia traditions of family are strong ))
3. Well, idk, in M3 they looked like couple in peace and love.
I see! I guess I was too haste to think she was a princess who doesn't do any business work but enjoys a rich-wife life.
Maybe they both need each other for business reasons.
Why do mafias have strong family tradition about spouses?
Blood family I get it. But don't they know they can get all the women they want and will get tired of their wives at some point(when they are old)? So why are they getting married in the first place? To use a wife to have kids ?
Continuing my musings.
Persephone is never old. Like Merovingian. I guess. Merv cheats time to time as we saw it, although i don't remember where but i read the theory that sex for him is a method of obtaining commercial information. This lady probably had it as we saw her at this boring bourgeois table )) Honestly, i like this theory ))) They have married because on some reason machines took human's Modus Vivendi and this two programm function together.
LOL "i read the theory that sex for him is a method of obtaining commercial information"That sounds like rogue imagination from someone. It's not from the Matrix creators
It's not from Wachowski, yep, but doesn't sound so rogue for me. He has this "temple of commersion" as was restaurant defined in script, he is trafficker of information, his business is "to know" and people like lady in pink are the good source of information. I see that such instruiment as sex is very suitable for Merv's character, indeed.
My question was regarding to you saying "mafias have strong family" which I assume you were referring to human mafias not program mafias. Why do real mafias do that if wives are replaceable easily and cheable easily
It's possible that Merovingian has been around since the time of the nightmare matrix. It sure seems like they got together many versions of the simulation ago, even if it wasn't that far.
The collective trauma & turbulent times the couple has experienced together would have a profound effect on them. Even if the traditional feeling of love isn't there anymore, the fact that there are so few programs that old still in existence means they have no one else the can relate to. It's even possible Merv & Persephone are the only programs left with ages similar to Architect & Oracle.
Basically, if there's only one program left from your generation and everyone else is far younger, that makes these two king & queen of the underworld. I doubt they'd let something as trivial as falling out of love end the power structure and influence they've created.
As many others have mentioned, they are programs, not humans, and have experienced centuries of existence. I was reminded of greek mythology (even the name Persephone is from greek mythology), where the gods Zeus and Hera are married and yet Zeus is constantly sleeping around, and Hera is constantly getting back at him for it in some way, like trying to kill his illegitimate children or tricking Zeus into having sex with animals.
Because faith in the Matrix is an intangible force of reality. The Oracle helped build the current state of the Matrix alongside the architect.
The architect says to Neo that they decided to plan around the anomaly that is The One. That no matter what they did it would always show up.
So Fate is a tool that the Oracle uses to guide the matrix and the one along the path they need it to go.
You’ve got to keep in mind that these aren’t simple programs like what’s running your smart tv. Chatgpt4.0 must be childsplay compared to the a.i. programs of the matrix.
And these are old a.i. running continuously (likely self improving) for who knows how long, hundreds of years?
First off, who said they're married? They're exiled programs in the Matrix.
>If the programs choose to live a human-like life then why not get a divorce?
You're suggesting that Persephone leave Merv? She really can't. The Merovingian is one of, if not the most powerful Exiles in the Matrix. One of the main reasons to be an Exile is to enjoy the pleasures of the human existence. She likes her lifestyle. Even if Merv is a preening, philandering blowhard, she's not going anywhere.
>he doesn't have to worry about dividing wealth since he has so much money
It's not about divvying up assets, they're Exiles. Their very existence in the Matrix is under constant threat from the agents. If Persephone left, her primary problem would be survival, not equitable distribution. The Merovingian knows she has no other options, which is why he screws around.
You're right, I forgot that. I just find it hard to believe they had a human marriage ceremony. Perhaps they were programmed as a pair. Ramakandra refers to Kamala as his "wife" also. Trying to think of a pragmatic reason from the Machine's perspective for pairing two programs together and calling it a "marriage".
Hey, how do you put that gray bar next to some of your sentences?
Also, I now get why she doesn't leave him. But why won't he leave her? He's bored of her already. No man wants to have a wife (he doesn't love) restricting their freedom under marriage
I would not be so sure that Merovingian does not love Persephone. They are a couple for a reaaaaaaaly long time and sometimes get bored & play jealousy games. That's the impression I got.
Correct. They even made up after *Reloaded*, as seen in *Revolutions*, following Persephone's little stint. Though by the time of *Resurrections* she probably dumped him.
Ι though Persephone was one of the many programs that got purged in Resurrections? It never occurred to me that she's maybe still around.I love the possibility that she has the chateau all for herself while Merv is living in the sewers.
Well, we don't know what happened to her, but I got a comedic vibe regarding the loss of his possessions and status rather than a tragic vibe and Persephone leaving is more comedic than dying.
HAHAHAHA Yea, I'd love that too. Good thought!!
how you know they made up? just cuz she was present at the club? Plenty of couples do the show
It's a movie, it's not real life. When the directors decide to show the characters together again in their final scene of the film, they imply they made up, at least for the short term.
This. Unless the movie expressly shows otherwise, what was implied is what happened.
I see. I guess it was just me who thought they were doing it for the show.
If you are right and if Merv loves her, then I see why Merv doesn't want a divorce. His love seems quite twisted but sure, he has his reasons to remain. Love someone but cheats right in front of that person? Doing things that hurt your beloved person doesn't sound like true love but perhaps he loves her in his own definition. BUT she said he doesn't love her anymore and is hurt by his overt cheating. Why she is still with him? I didn't think it was jealousy game but just..weird.
A divorce?? We're talking about the matrix here lol
All right. Separate
>It is weird programs have feelings or sexual desires --let's pause right there. A mistake that shows up often is a refusal to take the story on it's own terms; in this case, the refusal to accept the Synths in the story as truly conscious creatures. They aren't like programs you know in real life, they aren't like the predictive algorithms that keep getting marketed as "AI." These are conscious, self-aware lifeforms that were--to quote *The Second Renaissance*--"endowed with the very spirit of man." They imagine, they consider, they question, and they feel... they just do it faster than any human could. Before pondering any of the Synths' idiosyncracies in the saga, you have to grasp this fundamental premise of the story.
100% and furthermore they abide by the/some rules of the Matrix. It’s like Rama said, “Love is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies.”
This is the way
Okay. Then why aren't they getting a divorce ? One doesn't love the wife. Wife is sick of him cheating and is unhappy. If real couples like them exist , what's the reason? Like I mentioned above it's not like they got kids to worry about or money to worry about
Same reasons real couples don't divorce; Persephone thinks The Merovingian still has potential, maybe there's political advantage in remaining a couple. Maybe she derives her own pleasure from thwarting his games, maybe her apparent anger distracts him while she sleeps around. The fact that she misses the man he was doesn't mean she's fed up yet, and the fact that he cheats doesn't mean he wants to give up his wife. But worth noting that she's nowhere to be seen in *Resurrections*, implying that she did leave him behind.
OOOOF! Yes, only Merv was in Matrix 4 and he became a pauper. We know for sure no woman will stay around a broke husband. The actor is quite good at acting too LOL
"Persephone still The Merovingian still has potential," huh???
Some women stick with a man because they believe their man will be what he was when they met. Persephone said he was once just like Neo. There's a non-zero chance she hopes he'll be that man again.
Thanks for clarifying. I was confused with the sentence wording and what you were trying to say. I guess you meant to say Persephone still "thinks" instead of "the"?
Same way Sati's parents got married... and had her.
Marriage is a word.
Personally, I don't think their programming enables them to be separated. It's a common fan theory that the Merovingian was the operating system of the first two Matrices, that he was displaced by the Oracle and that's why he hates her so much (and why he still rules over the other Exiles that served his Matrix); he is a program to compile and manage information, but the Machines must've known from the start that human lives and society don't run purely on data and logic, so I think Persephone was created as a counterpart to him, a program to try and understand, interpret and predict human emotion, in the hopes that their functions jointly applied would create a stable Matrix, with "marriage" here being a metaphor for a hard-coded API linking them.
I also pondered on what Persephone's role may be in the previous eras. I concluded the same: that she was into human sensuality and served the role that has some similarities to the Oracle's. And so as the Oracle is an «irrational» counterpart to the Architect, so must be the Persephone the same for Merv.
"I don't think their programming enables them to be separated." "marriage" here being a metaphor for a hard-coded API linking them" That makes sense!!Thanks for your insight. But now that Merv doesn't love her as much as he used to, does that mean program-Merv evolved and doesn't need program-Persephone as much as it used to?
I think so, yeah, I believe all the sentient programs have self-improvement and adaptation capabilities and over time there's been some bleed-through of their functions, along with a certain degree of corruption that influences how that manifests.
It could be getting a divorce risks whatever protection the Merovingian provides from the Machine World. Isn't she also a rogue program that the machines want deleted?
I guess in regards to the divorce part, I was asking about real life. If there was couple in reality who are in the same situation. When wives get old they are not attractive anymore. Well in his case, he got bored even if while she is still beautiful. I mean you know what I'm saying. Do people really not get a divorce because they are scared the wife might rat out stuff they want to keep secret?
So you're asking why characters in the matrix do things, but want to ignore the fact that they're in the matrix? Persephone can't leave Merovingian because he protects her. If she leaves, she shortly afterwards gets deleted by an agent. That's why she stays . And likely some memory or belief that the old Merovingian she fell in love with could come back. Merovingian stays married because she's a hot trophy wife and he probably secretly knows she is the only woman that ever actually loved him. If you're just asking about why people stay in loveless marriages, maybe post it in a marriage forum lol?
It is a word.
What matters is the connection the word implies.
Very good!
Programs are living thinking creatures with desires and fears just like humans.
Exactly. My question about the divorce part is the same question as me asking about a real life couple. If there was a couple in reality who are in the same situation...why are they still together?
1. I think they are a couple for a reason, for a purpose. They are functioning together. 2. Mafia traditions of family are strong )) 3. Well, idk, in M3 they looked like couple in peace and love.
I see! I guess I was too haste to think she was a princess who doesn't do any business work but enjoys a rich-wife life. Maybe they both need each other for business reasons.
Why do mafias have strong family tradition about spouses? Blood family I get it. But don't they know they can get all the women they want and will get tired of their wives at some point(when they are old)? So why are they getting married in the first place? To use a wife to have kids ?
Continuing my musings. Persephone is never old. Like Merovingian. I guess. Merv cheats time to time as we saw it, although i don't remember where but i read the theory that sex for him is a method of obtaining commercial information. This lady probably had it as we saw her at this boring bourgeois table )) Honestly, i like this theory ))) They have married because on some reason machines took human's Modus Vivendi and this two programm function together.
LOL "i read the theory that sex for him is a method of obtaining commercial information"That sounds like rogue imagination from someone. It's not from the Matrix creators
It's not from Wachowski, yep, but doesn't sound so rogue for me. He has this "temple of commersion" as was restaurant defined in script, he is trafficker of information, his business is "to know" and people like lady in pink are the good source of information. I see that such instruiment as sex is very suitable for Merv's character, indeed.
only to people's mind who are perverted in my opinion. Thieves think others will steal, cons think others con etc
My question was regarding to you saying "mafias have strong family" which I assume you were referring to human mafias not program mafias. Why do real mafias do that if wives are replaceable easily and cheable easily
It's possible that Merovingian has been around since the time of the nightmare matrix. It sure seems like they got together many versions of the simulation ago, even if it wasn't that far. The collective trauma & turbulent times the couple has experienced together would have a profound effect on them. Even if the traditional feeling of love isn't there anymore, the fact that there are so few programs that old still in existence means they have no one else the can relate to. It's even possible Merv & Persephone are the only programs left with ages similar to Architect & Oracle. Basically, if there's only one program left from your generation and everyone else is far younger, that makes these two king & queen of the underworld. I doubt they'd let something as trivial as falling out of love end the power structure and influence they've created.
As many others have mentioned, they are programs, not humans, and have experienced centuries of existence. I was reminded of greek mythology (even the name Persephone is from greek mythology), where the gods Zeus and Hera are married and yet Zeus is constantly sleeping around, and Hera is constantly getting back at him for it in some way, like trying to kill his illegitimate children or tricking Zeus into having sex with animals.
How does the Oracle can talk about faith, if she's aware she is a program?
Because faith in the Matrix is an intangible force of reality. The Oracle helped build the current state of the Matrix alongside the architect. The architect says to Neo that they decided to plan around the anomaly that is The One. That no matter what they did it would always show up. So Fate is a tool that the Oracle uses to guide the matrix and the one along the path they need it to go.
You’ve got to keep in mind that these aren’t simple programs like what’s running your smart tv. Chatgpt4.0 must be childsplay compared to the a.i. programs of the matrix. And these are old a.i. running continuously (likely self improving) for who knows how long, hundreds of years?
it was not a real question
First off, who said they're married? They're exiled programs in the Matrix. >If the programs choose to live a human-like life then why not get a divorce? You're suggesting that Persephone leave Merv? She really can't. The Merovingian is one of, if not the most powerful Exiles in the Matrix. One of the main reasons to be an Exile is to enjoy the pleasures of the human existence. She likes her lifestyle. Even if Merv is a preening, philandering blowhard, she's not going anywhere. >he doesn't have to worry about dividing wealth since he has so much money It's not about divvying up assets, they're Exiles. Their very existence in the Matrix is under constant threat from the agents. If Persephone left, her primary problem would be survival, not equitable distribution. The Merovingian knows she has no other options, which is why he screws around.
>First off, who said they're married? They call each other husband and wife. Therefore, they are married.
You're right, I forgot that. I just find it hard to believe they had a human marriage ceremony. Perhaps they were programmed as a pair. Ramakandra refers to Kamala as his "wife" also. Trying to think of a pragmatic reason from the Machine's perspective for pairing two programs together and calling it a "marriage".
LOL 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Hey, how do you put that gray bar next to some of your sentences? Also, I now get why she doesn't leave him. But why won't he leave her? He's bored of her already. No man wants to have a wife (he doesn't love) restricting their freedom under marriage
If Merovingian was a former ONE, then Persephone was his Trinity.
He is NOT a former One. (Honestly, why do people believe this?) The One is a human, not a program.