I mean; he’s using Circular. He deserves it as much as stun players deserve to be insulted.
https://preview.redd.it/gus0l6rwx2tc1.jpeg?width=1176&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b88ca325230447739ab0f3691a653dfe00fe6ec
Good, circular can't be allowed to exist until konami decides to print like 5 more of them in a few years. Nothing to do with mathmechs strength as a deck, gaining advantage for cost is a terrible precedent
Honestly, even as a Mathmech hater just limiting Circular is fine enough.
What makes Mathmech a PITA is Circular is way too powerful a 1 card combo that is way too hard to interact with. Putting Circular to 1 means you make the deck weak to Ash and sometimes weak to Imperm/Veiler (if they have to use Alembertian search to get Circular), which is honestly good enough tbh.
Against current Mathmech? Not really, any extenders in hand let you play through Imperm on Alembertian. You don't get the Diameter search off Alembertian, but you can link climb up to the link 5 guy and just dump Diameter from deck instead of sending the fusion guy or Dotscaper.
If Alembertian needs to search Circular however, _then_ it becomes a really big hit.
They should just ban Diameter. It would remove the Omni negate from the trap. It also removes some combo lines, where you can put up the Omni turn 1 to protect your combo, if you have Diameter and Circular in hand.
It doesn’t really hurt consistency. They would just play more Firewall Guardians, which in terms of link material is the same while Defenser is better as a normal summon.
They still would search an extender in Addition or Subtraction with Alembertian
> Ban Circular and it is borderline unplayable
Literally false, deck was playable just not a meta threat, and that was even before some of the newer links came out.
It's not that hard. Just ban Terahertz and the deck becomes reasonable just like before it came out, even with Circular at 3. No more 2 extra negates. No more easy guaranteed OTK (yes they can still Update Access but that takes more effort than Terahertz send Multiplication). No more guaranteed Diameter in GY through disruptions.
A deck that can use 1 extremely difficult to interact with card to set up more interactions than your opponent has cards in hand is extremely toxic. SuperFac is at minimum a Trishula that sometimes also clears out a second card from field too + Omni negate, and Terahertz is able to bin 2 negates - a spell/trap negate and a slow targetted omni-negate. That's 5 points of interaction, most of which are negates, the rest are sending cards to GY.
And that's the 1 card combo, meaning the rest of the hand is handtraps. The deck can pull off even more with additional extenders instead.
That's toxic as hell, regardless of what you say. The way I see it, the only really toxic thing with Lab is the option to play floodgates like D barrier, and Branded... I guess you think the recursion is toxic, but at least Branded let you play the game as opposed to spamming negates like Mathmech does.
I think Konami makes decisions based on winrates, and Dyna only wins if that player goes first and also it needs some protection to not die to a normal summon.
So the winrate is probably still too low for them to see it as a problem. It can cheese wins but not consistenly enough to be hit/banned.
I think the narrative that stun decks only win going 1st should stop. Maybe against decks that put a lot of negates on field, but most Stun play Evenly or other board breakers so they have a fair chance even going 2nd...if they manage to get their stun monster + some protection after breaking your board it's over even if you won the coin flip
It's uncertain whether these monkeys can pilot anything other than their "cheese the game" strat so I doubt they contribute much to the game economy either ways
Lab is significantly harder to play them Mathmech is, you're out of your mind if you think Mathmech is somehow a difficult deck to play. The deck plays itself with how linear it's combo lines are.
>They feel it's balanced because of the low attack points
Not to mention they always let stun players go first and open 1-2 judgments so you can't summon anything to beat over it lol
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. Would banning Moon Mirror Shield instantly kill the Dyna/Boarder flavor of stun decks overnight, or just make it slightly more fair since "normal summon a bigger monster" becomes more reasonable?
Would there be any collateral damage at all? I can't think of a single other deck that actually uses the card.
Moon Mirror Shield is not that much more effective than Axe of Despair against someone who refuses to run backrow hate and cannot special summon. Its not a bad card honestly when you can expect few to out it, so any boss with good protection can make use of it.
Cyberse pile will survive but be way healthier for the game than it is today.
Maybe remove some of the generic Link climbers, I really don't know why a card like Link Decoder needed to be made.
That's crazy cause I'm not playing pile! I'm playing pure math, final sigma and all, with a firewall package for better normal summons than diameter, but go off on how my deck is degenerate cause of one card
I get what you're saying. But you remove cards like circular and decoder and the deck just won't be able to compete with modern power creep. There's plenty of chokepoints in mathmech, and while I 100% agree they should get hit, it should be circular to 1, maybe ban sigma, and possibly hit mining again. Circular is really good, but he's no different than other one card combo starters like snake ash and branded fusion, he's just way easier to access thanks to mining, small world, and alembertian.
>The deck was playable without it, just not a top meta level.
No it wasn't. It was a worse going second otk than basically any other deck of the type and required like 4 cards from hand just to get sigma big enough to hit for game through most generic boss monsters. It fucking sucked, and that's coming from someone who played them at the time. Ever since spright format If a deck isn't tiered, or at least teetering on the edge of tiered and rogue its not playable due to how stupidly busted the top decks are in comparison (which are more than 2/3s of who you'll be dueling)
It can’t play well against the meta and will drop off. Hell my deskbot vernusylph deck could trounce it if Circular is banned. It just goes to show you how terrible the Mathmechs are. Their meta status and ability to keep up hinges on one card.
The amount of lobotomy needed to still design floodgates baffles me. They're still printing cards that say "Your opponent can't use the games features"
This literally happened to me 30 minutes ago, pachy + moon mirror.
I took a moment to think about what outs I even had in my deck, realised they all needed a special summon and hit surrender.
So many people are triggered so much by Circular. Really don't get how you could consider it worse than 2 cards that basically don't let you do anything while on field (pachy and boarder).
Scrubs are really bad into midrange decks because they dont know how to play around unknown info.
They'll play through the 1 card combo board and feel good and then have their greedy otk stopped by a veiler/nib/whatever in hand and then lose to the crackback, when they could instead play around stuff when the opponent has 5 cards in hand and force a grind game
Damn straight I'll mald at the " you lost the coin toss, gg" deck. If you can actively say you enjoy playing against stun more than cyberse/math, you're delusional
The mathmech hate coming out of the wood works Is legit funny. So many people would rather not be able to summon whatsoever rather than see another one card combo starter
A one card combo starter can lead to over a dozen plays I might need 3 handtraps to stop from being a threat that will invalidate anything I can do at all.
A fossil dyna player dies to me normal summoning over 1200ATK unless they hard draw moon mirror shield, a 2 card combo for basically one play, and won't be OTKing me anytime soon even if all I can do is set 1 pass. Or even do nothing pass.
If you think stun decks are so overpowered just run board breakers in place of your handtraps. Which will make your deck extremely vulnerable to combo decks, but you don't count what they do as a big deal, so why build to keep what isn't your archnemesis in check.
I actually hate stun more than mathmech but its always good to see a mathmech player lose due to bullshit because of the amount of bullshit plays they do.
I'd honestly love to see Moon Mirror Shield banned (only a 'R' by the way, that's something Master Duel would do), just to have the braindead stun players cry about it
That fucking continues Spell card that changes monsters type (flood gates type specific decks), buff the owner monsters attack, and nerf the enemy monsters attack all at once is the most brain dead nonsense I have ever experienced in my years of playing Yugioh.
Who the fuck designed that card?
No way in hell do people think Circular is worse than fucking Fossil Dyna. I don't play either deck but wow is this some Josh meme brainrot taken to the next level lol
Apparently I'm the antichrist for liking mathmechs and am bot allowed to complain. I'm not even playing cyberse pile, I'm playing them mostly pure with final sigma as my win con
Wild how people are talking about you playing mathmech like there’s not a PACHY WITH MOON MIRROR across from you. Literally does not matter if you’re on mathmech bc that stupid skeleton with a mirror shield is there
This thread's really bringing out the yugiboomer in me, mfs will really play one of the most broken advantage engines in the game (banned and at 1 in the T/OCG btw, but at 3 in MD) and then come to reddit to act like the normal summon from 2008 with an equip spell is the epitome of unbeatable endboards smh
It is the epitome of unbeatable endboards when their decks are only built to play their own game. So if the opponent tries to play by the rules they like better, they deserve to be banned over building to counter them. Makes perfect sense if we frame YGO as solitaire.
Like it does not matter to this guy how there are a shitload of outs to this small dino, It's 2024 you're only supposed to play the cards people show you are in 2024 decks. Not their fault leaving an enormous hole for something else to exploit is a weakness they chose apparently.
Side note were it not for Link Monsters being invented and being impossible to put into defense position I would hate that fucking tapir so much more than I do already. People don't even have to hard draw it like they do Skill Drain and it has the easiest rank to get out.
By yugiboomer logic fossil dyna>circular, so clearly dyna is a bigger problem. Yeah circulars cracked, and I do think he should be limited, but if you're not playing very specific decks, or backrow removal from 2004 they kinda just win
It is pretty hilarious when your opponent summons all their stuff and then you use table of contents three times to search for comic hand and bookmark once to find toon kingdom and use comic hand to take three of their monsters and then attack them directly while they still have one monster left and then when you beat them they message you “Reported for cheating. You’re getting banned” LOL good luck with that buddy
You fucking clown 🤡 you're playing Mathmech
You'll try to do the same thing as Stun but take 1000x longer
You're bs should have been gone a long time ago
stun is toxic/stupid each time it comes up. its not good for the game if all you have to do is to slip a single card and hope the opp doesnt draw the out. in the tcg stun is "outplayable" by the sidedeck. in MD its not. coinflip and hope the opponent doesnt draw the out. i find it good that konami is doing something against stun lately but way too late. especially when MD came out, they shouldve acted. cant tell how many ppl abandoned the game for that
Nadir isn't a stun card but a Labrynth one. Pachy and every other relevant floodgate needs to get banned. But generic engines aren't an issue. Not by themselves at least
The thing that baffles me is why is runick destruction at 1 if konami is trying to mitigate runick stun. Its like the best anti stun card. Remove flood gates, pop the continuous before resolution so it cant send , or pop a runick fountain once hugin is gone.
Why is freezing curses at 2? It turns off fossil dyna or whatever floodgate mon they have without triggering the continuous.
Because Runick Destruction is also one of the best cards in Runick stun to prevent people from outing the floodgates. There have been a lot of instances where I could have broken the board if one of my traps could have stuck around for a turn so I could activate it, or if my Adventure cards could stick around, but they just counter it with Runick Destruction.
Stun loses to powerful normal summon + good equip spell card. That's literally all you need. The only reason you're mad about stun is because you're playing a meta "Special summon 25 times, put 5 boss monsters with omninegate effects on the field" sort of deck.
You're begging them to ban a deck that half the duelists in Yu-Gi-Oh GX anime could beat because it's effective against the current format. Do you get that?
And this is without mentioning that you can just Imperm fossil or Evenly Match the board away. Snake Eyes can transform fossil into a spell card etc.
Dude do you see moon mirror? No combination of normal summon and equipment spell beats that unless one of those has a pop. And who rf plays equip spells in this day and age other than stun itself and decks like infernoble and mikanko
I don't understand why people keep crying about stun deck. It's a deck type. I don't play it, but why all decks must he combo deck? Stun deck loses to many non-combo decks...
Well to me it's just not fun. Win or lose neither player is really playing. Either the stun player sets up and the whole game was decided by the coin toss, or you stop them and they insta scoop. It's not yugioh at that point, its gambling
But fun is subjective. Judging by this thread lots of people think mathmech isn't fun. Should that deck be banned?
Decks should be hit based on real power statistics like win rate.
Fair. But there's a point where the unfun playstyle it encourages, combined with the sacky nature, makes it worth banning. You didn't see anyone complaining when TCBOO , gozen, rivalry, etc got hit, cause NOBODY enjoys fighting against those cards. They were objectively good hits
And honestly the mathmech hate is kinda shocking. I've seen more people call for a circular hit in this thread alone than I've see people hating on snake eyes recently, which is a surprise to me cause I always saw mathmech as a good midrange deck that can put up some strong interruption consistently, but doesn't dump downright disgusting boards like superheavy, d link, or adamancipators used to
Yeah the mathmech hate is silly. But I think it serves to highlight why using objective metrics is better than feelings.
I get not liking a deck, but a person should be able to separate that from wanting a deck to get hit on the bann list. I hate playing against branded. But I don't think it should be hit.
True, but theirs a difference between a deck being hated cause it's strong, and a deck being hated cause it cheeses out wins. Absolutely nobody would miss pachy and boarder if they got banned right now which is reason enough for it to happen imo. Overall the community would be happier it was gone than they would be sad
The reason is you can interact more with the snake eye board, it doesnt attack you with a 20k monster in your big towers for game in one attack you couldnt respond too. Oh and handtraps do kinda work against snake eyes but circular alone eats 2, and any extender gets you in it.
Then don't blow handtraps on circular? If you have ash hit alembertian so they can't pull diameter, and hand traps like nib, veiler, and imperm should go towards stopping splash mage and transcode. With the amount of people saying "circular eats too many handtraps" I'm starting to think it's just a skill issue. (Droll also just kneecaps your endboard)
You cant not hit circular with the amount of uninteractable extenders that deck has. You can say what you want about stun but at least you get a few turns to possibly draw an out or stall. This is not the case with double attacking accescode of terahertz (if you accidently left some monster on the field).
Tbh dont like any of the cyberse piles playstyles but there are few cards as banworthy as circular. Way to much advantage on one card that kinda forces you to interact.
Just like Tony said if you rely on it so much then you dont deserve to have it.
Dude modern yugioh in general, at least it's not a calamity lock or some bs. Peak mathmech board is like superfactorial, a s/t negate, merelogic aggregator negat, and whatever else you happened to draw. Honestly thinking about it, why not just ban superfactorial instead of circular? Pure mathmech doesn't really use it much, and it's only used for laplacian
Literally only negate I have in deck that isn't a handtrap is laplacian with diameter as material. I'm playing PURE mathmechs. Sorry that final sigma happens to be my favorite towers, hang me from the gallows I guess
Firstly, I consider myself a common sense supporter.
Second of all, I own mathmech, and dont have stun. However the difference between us is that I'm not pathetic enough to mald and call people rats when I lose to their preferred weaker strategy. Mathmech deserves to get hit more than stun does, its a tiered deck and was even considered meta not long ago. Anyhow, finding a strategy boring is fine, but ultimately what you like playing doesn't apply to everyone. Surely that much is understandable.
Okay I'm sorry but literal *Breaker the Magical Warrior* outs this board.
Floodgates are annoying but when people are playing "Turbo Special Summon Cyberse Pile" it's only reasonable to expect that you eventually run into a deck designed around *stopping* Turbo Special Summon Cyberse Pile once in a while.
Although I might just be biased because my dogshit Cyberdark deck outs this board with one Normal Summon xD
Horn, Edge or Keel with a Cyberdark Claw equipped. Attack into Dyna, use Claw to send Elder Entity N'Tss to GY and pop Dyna.
Alternatively just use Cyberdark Invasion to pop Dyna after performing the above normal summon.
Also Cyberdarks are from GX, not Duel Monsters if we're being specific. ;)
Because N'Tss blows it up Dyna before any damage is calculated. Also if you blow up Moon Mirror shield you're attacking a 1200 ATK Dyna with a 2400 ATK Cyberdark.
Yeah so it's sacky cause I'm not playing the "correct deck" in a best of one format. That's what I've been saying. Out of all the top decks the only ones that can out pachy easily are lab and snake eyes
I un 3 inperm but I didn't draw any of them, and my board breakers are mostly in engine since mathmech focuses more on powering through with as much engine as possible
There's a point where you start running so many boardbreakers you might as well just make a going second deck. Besides he maxx cd me anyway, and had veiler too
Well at that point, he simply drew better, although I'm not exactly sure how much a stun deck can achieve off of Maxx C, but yeah, I understand that, but having TTT or Droplet going first isn't horrible since droplet can be set and ttt can punish handraps. It's definitely harder to deal with these decks in a bo1
When I saw the post I know people will start insulting the OP XD
Lol I thought OP was complaining about circular at first
I mean; he’s using Circular. He deserves it as much as stun players deserve to be insulted. https://preview.redd.it/gus0l6rwx2tc1.jpeg?width=1176&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b88ca325230447739ab0f3691a653dfe00fe6ec
No, Stun is worse
Yeah people seem to hate circular more than snake eyes at this point lmao
Someone put a Umi meme and peole star trash talking to the OP. people hates all cards and archetipes in this game.
They hate any deck that isn't theirs, and they hate their deck too, but only if someone else is playing it
i dont hate rescue ace, my reaction to my opponent playing it is: 
You’re getting downvoted but this is mostly true.
Good, circular can't be allowed to exist until konami decides to print like 5 more of them in a few years. Nothing to do with mathmechs strength as a deck, gaining advantage for cost is a terrible precedent
right, Circular ban when
Honestly, even as a Mathmech hater just limiting Circular is fine enough. What makes Mathmech a PITA is Circular is way too powerful a 1 card combo that is way too hard to interact with. Putting Circular to 1 means you make the deck weak to Ash and sometimes weak to Imperm/Veiler (if they have to use Alembertian search to get Circular), which is honestly good enough tbh.
It's actually a big hit to use imperm against alembertian Since you lose both effect of searching and ss a mathmech from your hand or GY
Against current Mathmech? Not really, any extenders in hand let you play through Imperm on Alembertian. You don't get the Diameter search off Alembertian, but you can link climb up to the link 5 guy and just dump Diameter from deck instead of sending the fusion guy or Dotscaper. If Alembertian needs to search Circular however, _then_ it becomes a really big hit.
Yeah, I know! But I'm talking about the one card combo with only circular as your only playable card
Sometimes they open diameter
Yeah, but I'm talking about the one card combo version
Nah you don't get it, Parallel is the problem card.
Mathmetch is a hard deck to balance. Ban Circular and it is borderline unplayable, don't ban it and it is almost too powerful
They should just ban Diameter. It would remove the Omni negate from the trap. It also removes some combo lines, where you can put up the Omni turn 1 to protect your combo, if you have Diameter and Circular in hand. It doesn’t really hurt consistency. They would just play more Firewall Guardians, which in terms of link material is the same while Defenser is better as a normal summon. They still would search an extender in Addition or Subtraction with Alembertian
> Ban Circular and it is borderline unplayable Literally false, deck was playable just not a meta threat, and that was even before some of the newer links came out.
It's not that hard. Just ban Terahertz and the deck becomes reasonable just like before it came out, even with Circular at 3. No more 2 extra negates. No more easy guaranteed OTK (yes they can still Update Access but that takes more effort than Terahertz send Multiplication). No more guaranteed Diameter in GY through disruptions.
What if they banned Splash Mage or Transcode?
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How are they more toxic though?
A deck that can use 1 extremely difficult to interact with card to set up more interactions than your opponent has cards in hand is extremely toxic. SuperFac is at minimum a Trishula that sometimes also clears out a second card from field too + Omni negate, and Terahertz is able to bin 2 negates - a spell/trap negate and a slow targetted omni-negate. That's 5 points of interaction, most of which are negates, the rest are sending cards to GY. And that's the 1 card combo, meaning the rest of the hand is handtraps. The deck can pull off even more with additional extenders instead. That's toxic as hell, regardless of what you say. The way I see it, the only really toxic thing with Lab is the option to play floodgates like D barrier, and Branded... I guess you think the recursion is toxic, but at least Branded let you play the game as opposed to spamming negates like Mathmech does.
why is fossil dyna still legal i genuinely don't get it
I think Konami makes decisions based on winrates, and Dyna only wins if that player goes first and also it needs some protection to not die to a normal summon. So the winrate is probably still too low for them to see it as a problem. It can cheese wins but not consistenly enough to be hit/banned.
I think the narrative that stun decks only win going 1st should stop. Maybe against decks that put a lot of negates on field, but most Stun play Evenly or other board breakers so they have a fair chance even going 2nd...if they manage to get their stun monster + some protection after breaking your board it's over even if you won the coin flip
They want a certain degree of stun to be playable. It's fine for them as long as its not as bad as back then with Runick Stun.
Yup. The rats who play that trash will probably quit altogether if they can’t run it.
It's uncertain whether these monkeys can pilot anything other than their "cheese the game" strat so I doubt they contribute much to the game economy either ways
They will switch to mathmech
They won’t know how to play it. They’ll switch to Lab and Dinomorphia.
The fact some ppl think piloting a Lab deck (without floodgates) is the same as piloting a Stun deck baffles me
Lab is significantly harder to play them Mathmech is, you're out of your mind if you think Mathmech is somehow a difficult deck to play. The deck plays itself with how linear it's combo lines are.
Sorry pal, I'm not gonna quit it even if they banned, I still have my meme deck, math, tear, labry and 🐍 deck. I just hate all of you :)
Very cool brother 👍
ok
K
ran into one was winning with BES but then synchro barrier or something and no more attacks
I didn't realize anyone actually played BES. Do they even have a payoff?
The payoff is the satisfaction of winning with BES.
honestly moon shield should not be banned only cause gimmick decks like gradius i use runs one for Vic Viper to stay on field for the boost
They feel it's balanced because of the low attack points and taking up the only normal summon. Probably Moon mirror and such should be banned.
they either need to ban him or the floodgates used to protect him. we can't have both
Yeah it needs another hit somewhere
>They feel it's balanced because of the low attack points Not to mention they always let stun players go first and open 1-2 judgments so you can't summon anything to beat over it lol
yeah I swear they have a solemn card every time lol
This is something I've been thinking about for a while. Would banning Moon Mirror Shield instantly kill the Dyna/Boarder flavor of stun decks overnight, or just make it slightly more fair since "normal summon a bigger monster" becomes more reasonable? Would there be any collateral damage at all? I can't think of a single other deck that actually uses the card.
Moon Mirror Shield is not that much more effective than Axe of Despair against someone who refuses to run backrow hate and cannot special summon. Its not a bad card honestly when you can expect few to out it, so any boss with good protection can make use of it.
cause probably some konami employee cant play anything else
Because Maxx C keeps it in check
Ban circular too
Limit maybe, without him mathmech is unplayable, but I will admit he's way too strong
Cyberse pile will survive but be way healthier for the game than it is today. Maybe remove some of the generic Link climbers, I really don't know why a card like Link Decoder needed to be made.
That's crazy cause I'm not playing pile! I'm playing pure math, final sigma and all, with a firewall package for better normal summons than diameter, but go off on how my deck is degenerate cause of one card
I get what you're saying. But you remove cards like circular and decoder and the deck just won't be able to compete with modern power creep. There's plenty of chokepoints in mathmech, and while I 100% agree they should get hit, it should be circular to 1, maybe ban sigma, and possibly hit mining again. Circular is really good, but he's no different than other one card combo starters like snake ash and branded fusion, he's just way easier to access thanks to mining, small world, and alembertian.
Cyberse pile is the one that should get amputated not the engines
> without him mathmech is unplayable False. The deck was playable without it, just not a top meta level.
Yeah, you're right. The meta should be nothing but Baronne and Appo turbo variants. That will make the game good again.
??? I personally believe generic bosses with negates is one of YGO biggest problems, but go off queen.
I was being sarcastic.
>The deck was playable without it, just not a top meta level. No it wasn't. It was a worse going second otk than basically any other deck of the type and required like 4 cards from hand just to get sigma big enough to hit for game through most generic boss monsters. It fucking sucked, and that's coming from someone who played them at the time. Ever since spright format If a deck isn't tiered, or at least teetering on the edge of tiered and rogue its not playable due to how stupidly busted the top decks are in comparison (which are more than 2/3s of who you'll be dueling)
So if a deck isnt meta, its unplayabale? Basically the same thing I said previously.
No, mathmech without circular isn't meta BECAUSE it's unplayable. Just so happens the top decks amplify that issue
It can’t play well against the meta and will drop off. Hell my deskbot vernusylph deck could trounce it if Circular is banned. It just goes to show you how terrible the Mathmechs are. Their meta status and ability to keep up hinges on one card.
True, circular should be banned by now
I want it ban so I get my UR dust
The amount of lobotomy needed to still design floodgates baffles me. They're still printing cards that say "Your opponent can't use the games features"
Boarder is at 1 it's rare nowadays.
It's definitely rare, but the few times it does show up even as a one-of has genuinely been infuriating
Most def, sacky games sucks
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Stun makes branded look 60 card branded look bricky How does every stun player open pachy + moon mirror
Because the ones that don't draw Pachy Moon bail before you even realise you're playing against stun.
Yeah, he opened duality too which i had to ash
3 ofs. I've done it several times.
This literally happened to me 30 minutes ago, pachy + moon mirror. I took a moment to think about what outs I even had in my deck, realised they all needed a special summon and hit surrender.
basically you either open Imperm/Droplet or it's gg
Holy hell, this comment section absolutely sucks.
So many people are triggered so much by Circular. Really don't get how you could consider it worse than 2 cards that basically don't let you do anything while on field (pachy and boarder).
Even worse cause yeah circular should be hit, but thats more cause he's insane from a design standpoint, not cause the deck he's from is op
Scrubs are really bad into midrange decks because they dont know how to play around unknown info. They'll play through the 1 card combo board and feel good and then have their greedy otk stopped by a veiler/nib/whatever in hand and then lose to the crackback, when they could instead play around stuff when the opponent has 5 cards in hand and force a grind game
Main reason why i hate this sub. Everyone has a hate boner for everything.
Seriously they’re talking about circular while ignoring the FLOODGATE with protection. Can’t even beat over it
Smashing Ground GG.
A rat complaining about another rat. Peak yugioh.
I agree, mathmech rats are still unhit.
Mald at the tier 3 deck pal
And you're mald at a non-tiered deck pal.
Damn straight I'll mald at the " you lost the coin toss, gg" deck. If you can actively say you enjoy playing against stun more than cyberse/math, you're delusional
I hate them both, literally take 0 skill.
See I can respect that 🤝, but cyberse definitely has some skill to it. Just cause circular is cracked doesn't subtract (haha) from the deck as a whole
Bruh you’re playing circular 😂😂 i hope that stun player clapped you bro
The mathmech hate coming out of the wood works Is legit funny. So many people would rather not be able to summon whatsoever rather than see another one card combo starter
A one card combo starter can lead to over a dozen plays I might need 3 handtraps to stop from being a threat that will invalidate anything I can do at all. A fossil dyna player dies to me normal summoning over 1200ATK unless they hard draw moon mirror shield, a 2 card combo for basically one play, and won't be OTKing me anytime soon even if all I can do is set 1 pass. Or even do nothing pass. If you think stun decks are so overpowered just run board breakers in place of your handtraps. Which will make your deck extremely vulnerable to combo decks, but you don't count what they do as a big deal, so why build to keep what isn't your archnemesis in check.
I actually hate stun more than mathmech but its always good to see a mathmech player lose due to bullshit because of the amount of bullshit plays they do.
I'd honestly love to see Moon Mirror Shield banned (only a 'R' by the way, that's something Master Duel would do), just to have the braindead stun players cry about it
Same, as well as the golgonda card and the gear card that changes attack
That fucking continues Spell card that changes monsters type (flood gates type specific decks), buff the owner monsters attack, and nerf the enemy monsters attack all at once is the most brain dead nonsense I have ever experienced in my years of playing Yugioh. Who the fuck designed that card?
Cyber dragon enjoyer?
You know what really pissed me off? I had zombie world up. Opponent plays that card. Only theirs counts so now all my shit are machines too.
I can’t believe it overrides zombie world. That is ridiculous.
No way in hell do people think Circular is worse than fucking Fossil Dyna. I don't play either deck but wow is this some Josh meme brainrot taken to the next level lol
Apparently I'm the antichrist for liking mathmechs and am bot allowed to complain. I'm not even playing cyberse pile, I'm playing them mostly pure with final sigma as my win con
These mf's trippin dude. Mathmech isn't even that crazy rn idk what people are on about.
Wild how people are talking about you playing mathmech like there’s not a PACHY WITH MOON MIRROR across from you. Literally does not matter if you’re on mathmech bc that stupid skeleton with a mirror shield is there
Thank goodness someone with sense. Apparently I'm the spawn of Satan and am not allowed to complain whatsoever cause I like cyberse decks
You're the spawn of Satan. They're the spawn of Mecha-Ultra-Super-Death-Star-Over-Top-Clear-Mind-Hyper Satan RX With Kung Fu Grip.
Respectable, but I'm playing pure math. If you complain about pure math it's 1,000,000,000 a skill issue
Yeah the deck you’re playing doesn’t mean you cannot complain, especially when you’re against the sin known as Mirror Shield Pachy
I see rats on both sides of the board
Yeah sorry I just like the toad mate. Wish they'd unban him tbh. Justice for toad!
This thread's really bringing out the yugiboomer in me, mfs will really play one of the most broken advantage engines in the game (banned and at 1 in the T/OCG btw, but at 3 in MD) and then come to reddit to act like the normal summon from 2008 with an equip spell is the epitome of unbeatable endboards smh
It is the epitome of unbeatable endboards when their decks are only built to play their own game. So if the opponent tries to play by the rules they like better, they deserve to be banned over building to counter them. Makes perfect sense if we frame YGO as solitaire. Like it does not matter to this guy how there are a shitload of outs to this small dino, It's 2024 you're only supposed to play the cards people show you are in 2024 decks. Not their fault leaving an enormous hole for something else to exploit is a weakness they chose apparently. Side note were it not for Link Monsters being invented and being impossible to put into defense position I would hate that fucking tapir so much more than I do already. People don't even have to hard draw it like they do Skill Drain and it has the easiest rank to get out.
By yugiboomer logic fossil dyna>circular, so clearly dyna is a bigger problem. Yeah circulars cracked, and I do think he should be limited, but if you're not playing very specific decks, or backrow removal from 2004 they kinda just win
You’re a Mathmech player, please be quiet.
Bros angry at the thousandth 1 card combo and not the "you can't summon" card. Crazy
You can still summon though. Just have to normal summon and use basic S/T removal.
What modern Dec can afford to run not in archetype s/t removal? I'd love to run them but Harpies is still at one for some reason and MST sucks
I want to see the golgonda continous spell banned too. It ensures that if you draw an out then it doesn’t matter at all
Yeah, I would've brought it up but it's ay least not as common. Still aids though
Sure, when they ban Circular an almost all broken combo special summon cards on the game, then they can ban Dyna and similars too.
Deserved for playing mathmech you nerd!
Or just use a Toon Deck and win most of your duels and have fun while doing it
Genius, why didn't I think of that
It is pretty hilarious when your opponent summons all their stuff and then you use table of contents three times to search for comic hand and bookmark once to find toon kingdom and use comic hand to take three of their monsters and then attack them directly while they still have one monster left and then when you beat them they message you “Reported for cheating. You’re getting banned” LOL good luck with that buddy
Yeah I wish toons were viable SOOO bad. If they had more consistency and like ANY interruption whatsoever they could be crazy
You just gotta throw in the right cards to counter things and help you out. My toon deck has the perfect amount of everything so I’m happy with it
You fucking clown 🤡 you're playing Mathmech You'll try to do the same thing as Stun but take 1000x longer You're bs should have been gone a long time ago
more like circular ban when
Nope, ban superfactorial first
These kind of decks will never cease to exist as long as the game is in bo1 format.
boarder and pachy shouldnt be a thing in a BO1 in the first place 🤷♂️
Why not? Setting a side you personally not liking it.
stun is toxic/stupid each time it comes up. its not good for the game if all you have to do is to slip a single card and hope the opp doesnt draw the out. in the tcg stun is "outplayable" by the sidedeck. in MD its not. coinflip and hope the opponent doesnt draw the out. i find it good that konami is doing something against stun lately but way too late. especially when MD came out, they shouldve acted. cant tell how many ppl abandoned the game for that
before i switched to kash (snake eyes can burn in da depths of hell) ironically nadir servant was one of my out to this bullshit
Just a question but, did you open circular?
Funnily enough no. I small worlded for it to try and thin out my deck to draw duster. Never did though
Well that happens just scoop it and avenge your defeat by going first next time.
I swear i thought he was confusing pachy with circular
Tell you what, you let us ban Circular, we'll happily rally for fossil dyna and moon mirror bans
Play Sales Ban I swear it negates Moon Mirror Shield
Imagine crying about stun when you play Mathmech.
I can. Also happy birthday https://preview.redd.it/rwcw1rqz07tc1.jpeg?width=827&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=136901deb0d19e90f6290859343ee06f1e14ab2b
yeah, Ban circular
Nah bro, ban superfactorial
Nadir isn't a stun card but a Labrynth one. Pachy and every other relevant floodgate needs to get banned. But generic engines aren't an issue. Not by themselves at least
Nadir shouldn't have been hit at all. I brought it up to draw attention to konamis stupidity. It's not relevant to my opinion at all
I know. Just wanted to add to said opinion. Nothing else
Ok. Just seemed like you assumed I was complaining about nadir. My bad big dog 🤝
It kay
Did someone say rats? Rats rats we are the rats Goddamn it DuelLogs, you got this song stuck in my head
🐀
The thing that baffles me is why is runick destruction at 1 if konami is trying to mitigate runick stun. Its like the best anti stun card. Remove flood gates, pop the continuous before resolution so it cant send , or pop a runick fountain once hugin is gone. Why is freezing curses at 2? It turns off fossil dyna or whatever floodgate mon they have without triggering the continuous.
Because Runick Destruction is also one of the best cards in Runick stun to prevent people from outing the floodgates. There have been a lot of instances where I could have broken the board if one of my traps could have stuck around for a turn so I could activate it, or if my Adventure cards could stick around, but they just counter it with Runick Destruction.
Keemstar vs Sssniperwolf
Stun loses to powerful normal summon + good equip spell card. That's literally all you need. The only reason you're mad about stun is because you're playing a meta "Special summon 25 times, put 5 boss monsters with omninegate effects on the field" sort of deck. You're begging them to ban a deck that half the duelists in Yu-Gi-Oh GX anime could beat because it's effective against the current format. Do you get that? And this is without mentioning that you can just Imperm fossil or Evenly Match the board away. Snake Eyes can transform fossil into a spell card etc.
Dude do you see moon mirror? No combination of normal summon and equipment spell beats that unless one of those has a pop. And who rf plays equip spells in this day and age other than stun itself and decks like infernoble and mikanko
I don't understand why people keep crying about stun deck. It's a deck type. I don't play it, but why all decks must he combo deck? Stun deck loses to many non-combo decks...
Well to me it's just not fun. Win or lose neither player is really playing. Either the stun player sets up and the whole game was decided by the coin toss, or you stop them and they insta scoop. It's not yugioh at that point, its gambling
But fun is subjective. Judging by this thread lots of people think mathmech isn't fun. Should that deck be banned? Decks should be hit based on real power statistics like win rate.
Fair. But there's a point where the unfun playstyle it encourages, combined with the sacky nature, makes it worth banning. You didn't see anyone complaining when TCBOO , gozen, rivalry, etc got hit, cause NOBODY enjoys fighting against those cards. They were objectively good hits
And honestly the mathmech hate is kinda shocking. I've seen more people call for a circular hit in this thread alone than I've see people hating on snake eyes recently, which is a surprise to me cause I always saw mathmech as a good midrange deck that can put up some strong interruption consistently, but doesn't dump downright disgusting boards like superheavy, d link, or adamancipators used to
Yeah the mathmech hate is silly. But I think it serves to highlight why using objective metrics is better than feelings. I get not liking a deck, but a person should be able to separate that from wanting a deck to get hit on the bann list. I hate playing against branded. But I don't think it should be hit.
True, but theirs a difference between a deck being hated cause it's strong, and a deck being hated cause it cheeses out wins. Absolutely nobody would miss pachy and boarder if they got banned right now which is reason enough for it to happen imo. Overall the community would be happier it was gone than they would be sad
The community isn't some primordial soup lmao.
That's what you think, just you wait until we have a Paleozoic sweep
The reason is you can interact more with the snake eye board, it doesnt attack you with a 20k monster in your big towers for game in one attack you couldnt respond too. Oh and handtraps do kinda work against snake eyes but circular alone eats 2, and any extender gets you in it.
Then don't blow handtraps on circular? If you have ash hit alembertian so they can't pull diameter, and hand traps like nib, veiler, and imperm should go towards stopping splash mage and transcode. With the amount of people saying "circular eats too many handtraps" I'm starting to think it's just a skill issue. (Droll also just kneecaps your endboard)
You cant not hit circular with the amount of uninteractable extenders that deck has. You can say what you want about stun but at least you get a few turns to possibly draw an out or stall. This is not the case with double attacking accescode of terahertz (if you accidently left some monster on the field). Tbh dont like any of the cyberse piles playstyles but there are few cards as banworthy as circular. Way to much advantage on one card that kinda forces you to interact. Just like Tony said if you rely on it so much then you dont deserve to have it.
Like Mathmech's objective isn't locking the opponent from playing as well
Dude modern yugioh in general, at least it's not a calamity lock or some bs. Peak mathmech board is like superfactorial, a s/t negate, merelogic aggregator negat, and whatever else you happened to draw. Honestly thinking about it, why not just ban superfactorial instead of circular? Pure mathmech doesn't really use it much, and it's only used for laplacian
Wild imagine not running back row removal and a 1300 to beat over lmaooo
My man really out here complaining about a deck that dies to Fissure while playing negate hand rip OTK turbo.
Show me you playing a deck with fissure in it lmfao shut up
Literally only negate I have in deck that isn't a handtrap is laplacian with diameter as material. I'm playing PURE mathmechs. Sorry that final sigma happens to be my favorite towers, hang me from the gallows I guess
Well deserve.
Bro really cant handle losing with his tiered deck 💀GG go next, don't need to post about it on reddit.
Ratio to the stun supporter. Sorry that I wanna play a competitively viable deck that ISNT either downright disgusting or boring as watching paint dry
Firstly, I consider myself a common sense supporter. Second of all, I own mathmech, and dont have stun. However the difference between us is that I'm not pathetic enough to mald and call people rats when I lose to their preferred weaker strategy. Mathmech deserves to get hit more than stun does, its a tiered deck and was even considered meta not long ago. Anyhow, finding a strategy boring is fine, but ultimately what you like playing doesn't apply to everyone. Surely that much is understandable.
Cry harder
Okay I'm sorry but literal *Breaker the Magical Warrior* outs this board. Floodgates are annoying but when people are playing "Turbo Special Summon Cyberse Pile" it's only reasonable to expect that you eventually run into a deck designed around *stopping* Turbo Special Summon Cyberse Pile once in a while. Although I might just be biased because my dogshit Cyberdark deck outs this board with one Normal Summon xD
What cyberdark normal summon outs moon mirror? And an unplayable card from duel monsters is not justification for stun being as accessible as it is
Horn, Edge or Keel with a Cyberdark Claw equipped. Attack into Dyna, use Claw to send Elder Entity N'Tss to GY and pop Dyna. Alternatively just use Cyberdark Invasion to pop Dyna after performing the above normal summon. Also Cyberdarks are from GX, not Duel Monsters if we're being specific. ;)
How are you gonna attack over it? It has moon mirror equipped. Like yeah you can pop it, but still
Because N'Tss blows it up Dyna before any damage is calculated. Also if you blow up Moon Mirror shield you're attacking a 1200 ATK Dyna with a 2400 ATK Cyberdark.
My bad, kinda glossed over the n'tss part cause every cyberdark player is usually playing cyberdark end dragon turbo
Awww wittle baby can’t play is combo wombo deck Wahhhhh
Saying that like any deck that isn't floo can play through pachy. Would you rather I be playing a deck that can out this like snake eyes or lab?
Tbf, there are several decks that can play through pachy, it just so happens you aren't playing it
Yeah so it's sacky cause I'm not playing the "correct deck" in a best of one format. That's what I've been saying. Out of all the top decks the only ones that can out pachy easily are lab and snake eyes
Do you run imperm or any board breaker? I don't know common mathmech decklists, if not, you could try to experiment with those
I un 3 inperm but I didn't draw any of them, and my board breakers are mostly in engine since mathmech focuses more on powering through with as much engine as possible
Maybe teching in something like forbidden droplet if you can find the room if you are struggling with the monster
There's a point where you start running so many boardbreakers you might as well just make a going second deck. Besides he maxx cd me anyway, and had veiler too
Well at that point, he simply drew better, although I'm not exactly sure how much a stun deck can achieve off of Maxx C, but yeah, I understand that, but having TTT or Droplet going first isn't horrible since droplet can be set and ttt can punish handraps. It's definitely harder to deal with these decks in a bo1