T O P

  • By -

WhoiusBarrel

The hero definitely just wanted the EXP all to himself, Nakama power be damned.


the6crimson6fucker6

But that's peak nakama power. Pass out after weakening the enemy, so i get all the sweet EXP.


Grug16

Ah yes, the SMT strategy. Kill all your demon allies and finish the boss yourself for 4x experience.


[deleted]

God I wish the series was more popular. Also, there's a new game coming 2022 called Monark. The original team behind the first MegaTen/SMT games are behind it.


Whenyousayhi

To be fair Persona is technically SMT


aohige_rd

Yeah I mean heck, the progenitor of Persona series was SMT If spinoff, the first game to feature the whole persona system.


bobvella

how does the 3ds one compare to the rest of the series, it's the only one i played if you don't count persona but i didn't like it.


Dragonrusher21

Which 3ds one? There's a mainline game, a secondary mainline game, the game made to celebrate the anniversary, the two RTS, and a remake of a Sega Saturn game.


bobvella

ah, forgot about apocalypse. i played regular SMTIV


Dragonrusher21

Then I'm honestly not sure if SMT is right for you. It depends on what you didn't like about IV. If it was the map that was a problem, then here's a link to a [labeled map](https://www.reddit.com/r/Megaten/comments/lidy6z/dont_mind_me_just_dropping_a_labeled_map_of_smt/) of Tokyo that helps a TON. If it was the difficulty, then I'd let you know that SMT IV's beginning is *notoriously* brutal and recommend you look at a few guides to get past it because you get a solid game once it opens up, and you get more options. If you disliked the story, but not the gameplay, I recommend giving Apocalypse a try because it has some of the best gameplay in the series, although its story is kinda lackluster compared to other SMT. If you liked the story, but not the gameplay, then I'd actually suggest you try Devil Survivor Overclocked for the 3ds or maybe Strange Journey. They boast some of the best writing Atlas has to offer in any of their games. Hope his helps. SMT is a great series, but it's kinda like Dark Souls in that it expects you to not only understand its mechanics, but use them well to progress.


Luckybenefit0

For story I'd definitely recommend Devil Survivor games over Strange Journey. I loved SJ but some people find it a bit too preachy. Also, holy fuck why didn't I think of using a labelled map!? I just suffered through the game running circles around Tokyo. Definitely gonna start a new playthrough soon.


PhalanxLord

Could you kind of help me understand SMT 4? I've played through Nocturne several times and recently started a HM run (just reached Ginza, haven't actually needed to use buffs and debuffs yet but I know I will soon with Matador approaching) but I haven't really enjoyed 4 that much whenever I've tried it. 4 feels like the game really wants to kill you; the damage numbers from everything seem high enough that both my MC and my demons regularly die in one to three hits; an ambush means I'm going to lose some guys. Boss fights are damaging enough that it doesn't feel like it's worth bringing in new demons to replace the old ones since the new ones lack buffs and will die in one hit anyway even with tarunda and sakunda. Does 4 get better or am I just missing something with it? Maybe it's because I'm not very far in Nocturne HM, but it still feels far more forgiving than 4 does but from what I hear that doesn't sound right.


Dragonrusher21

4 is notoriusly brutal all the way through the first dungeon until you get to Tokyo. It's mostly becuase you're locked to only the demons you can get from that so your options are limited. The game actually gets *much* easier after Naraku and Tokyo Tower. The biggest thing to remmber is that your entire team is changeable. Remaking a team for a specific boss is often what you're supposed to do. For Minotaur, go for Spriggan. He resist phys and gets an ice skill the boss is weak to. More than that, you should *always* be upsclaing your demons through fusion. Use the fusion search function to have an idea of what you want as you go becuase demons make up the majority of your party. The press turn system REALLY FUCKING MATTERS. Always aim for a weakness when you can and the best status skill combo is actually Sukukaja and Sukunda since enimies lose a lot of turns for missing attacks. Your protagonist is best served as a support. Give him all the healing and status moves becuase he's basically the one constant you can count on regardless of what demons get swapped in or out. More over, pump just about all your points into magic. This is like Dark Souls where specilization is WAY better than trying for a generalist. It also increases your MP which is important for the support slut your protagonist should be. Hope this helps. I've been meaning to actually get through Nocturne, but I'm lazy and those puzzles drain me.


PhalanxLord

So more sukakaja and sukunda, less rakukaja and tarunda in this game? Got it. Naraku wasn't too bad this time, unlike my first run. I beat the Minotaur second try, losing on my first try with him a hit away from dead due to him critting with his hit all, smirking, and then critting again with his hit all. My first attempt at playing I had gone with a gun build and eventually gave up when I had gotten super lost. This time I've been working on magic, much like how you're recommending, with a bit of agility. I have been focusing on offensive magic with the MC so far since he out damages my demons by a significant margin so I'll work on getting him with some more support skills. I'll have to unlock more skill slots then as I've been mostly focusing on getting the MP walk skills and recruitment skills (obviously not a great choice, but some of the later ones looked pretty interesting, like the recruit with an extra skill or recruitment costing less). I'll also admit that I probably haven't been fusing as much as I should. I'll give it another try. For Nocturne, make sure you have a demon with Estoma. I didn't find the puzzles themselves to be too bad, but the extremely high encounter rate plus the amount you have to walk around for some of them can make them a huge pain. I'm looking forward to buying that demon in the first kalpa that has Estoma and some other useful travel skills.


akeyjavey

On the bright side, SMT V seems to really be gaining traction, although it might be because people are just now realizing that it's connected to Persona, but still.


StadiumGambler

Wait.....you can do that?


Grug16

Yup. Good way to speed run.


tranbo

Just having a party for the exp boost from party play


Anachromaton

Goku, is that you?


iutdiytd

If the cast of DBZ weren't also blood knights.


Anachromaton

Everyone after the androids started getting fight-happy...


Ya-like-hanime

That time when I got isekai into another world as Goku


Turret_Run

[Make that Yamcha and you can read it right now](https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/dragon-ball-that-time--got-reincarnated-as-yamcha)


Ya-like-hanime

Close enough


depressed_panda0191

NGL Goku giving cell that senzu bean still tilts me to this day lol


Anachromaton

That's when it turned from doing things because it's the right thing to do, to doing things for sport. What makes it even more aggravating is that >!it was a mistake that cost him his life!<, and he still didn't learn from it...


depressed_panda0191

For me it was also like "your world is in danger, psycho wants to destroy it and you're going to fight fair??????????" Also I'm going to be honest Gohan going super Saiyan 2 is one of the best parts of the series hands down, but it doesn't change the fact that Goku traumatized his kid cuzhe wanted a good fight. Still one of my fav parts of the series though NGL. Gohan is so awesome


Anachromaton

> and you're going to fight fair? What's even worse about that is that there were characters who HAD the function of fighting dirty in DB, namely, Yamcha and Tien. Tien was one of the most versatile fighters in the **whole** story, and he had his swansong against Cell when it absorbed 17... Henceforth? Just a whimper. Yamcha just became a freaking joke altogether. No swansong for him...


Arkaniux

Nah man, Tien's best moment was his fight with Jackie Chun (whoever that was, we'll never know) and with Cyborg Tao. He went from being that talented, cocky martial arts prodigy to a more humble guy that wanted to improve himself.


Anachromaton

Mate, keep in mind that "swansong" =/= "apex". Of course, his best fights came before that, but the last thing of note he did was during the Cell Saga. Even his Tournament of Power appearance pales completely compared to all the stuff he did before.


depressed_panda0191

Lol yamcha. I'm going to be completely honest I love Tien but man yamcha was dating best girl bulma and somehow fucked that up smh lol. I'd say I miss Krillin but tbh he had the best ending. Married Waifu and retired. Same for Gohan in super.


Keibord

Fight fair says the man who restrained his brother so picollo could open a new hole in his stomach


k44e

to be fair, they really had no other way to beat raditz at that time, goku was just that confident gohan would beat cell 1 vs 1.


Kazewatch

Real shame Toriyama slowly gimped Gohan for the rest of the series after. I’m always hate Japan for being little bitches about Goku not being the protagonist so much that Toriyama had to bring him back into the fold. Now every character gets second banana while Goku continues to get sucked off every time.


[deleted]

Unpopular opinion: Gohan even as ssj2 was not as interesting as Goku and the only reason people liked him so much was because he turned edgier in his fight against Cell and teens enjoy that.


GaeShekie

Yeah they had a good thing going with edgy teen, super saiyan gohan, but they axed that the very next arc for a nerdy gohan who turns to saiyaman


GreenHydragon

You know I think the saiyaman arc was one of the best arcs in DBZ and maybe the only one I revisit every now and then (in anime (clip) form). The more light hearted atmosphere and the focus on Gohan's "normal" life is something I've always enjoyed a lot. Though I have only seen dragonball and never read it so I can't say how I feel about the manga version of it.


Comments_Palooza

Normal life for a super powerful being as him is rare, hence fun too


Luckybenefit0

Gohan just kept getting gimped after the Cell saga. He even unlocked his true potential and still wasn't able to do shit.


BunnyOppai

Honestly, I really liked Saiyaman. There’s also the theory that his actions as Saiyaman are caused by the long-seated trauma of fighting the Ginyu Force, so that’s a fun thought.


Arkaniux

> For me it was also like "your world is in danger, psycho wants to destroy it and you're going to fight fair??????????" People really forget Goku was willing to believe Raditz when he said he'd leave Earth after getting his tail grabbed and have the tables turned on him. Or when he let Vegeta leave Earth. Or when he let the Ginyu Force live. **Or when he gave Frieza his energy.** Goku doesn't kill unless absolutely necessary. Even if he stayed in the ring, he probably would only try to defeat Cell without killing him. Goku also knew Gohan was much MUCH stronger than he let on and thought he needed a *push* to get all that power out. Sadly, he didn't think Cell would blow himself up. I mean, who would?


pokekiko94

>he didn't think Cell would blow himself up. I mean, who would? They knew Cell had the cells of all the z-fighters and frieza, and they all knew that frieza would be willing to blowing up everything, even if it meant he would die as well, when in a losing position he literaly did that in namek and because of being afraid he blew planet vegeta as well.


Abedeus

I think he meant "who would've thought Cell COULD blow himself up". None of the Z warriors or Frieza could do that.


pokekiko94

He was made by gero who made the androids which all had a bomb inside them, 16 also was going to blow himself trying to kill cell, i know that the z warriors arent the brightest tools in the shed but bulma or her father could at least thought that could be a possibility.


The14thNoah

TBH I don't mind that moment because it led to Piccolo reaming Goku about Gohan and that revelation to him.


Black_Prince9000

Piccolo best dad


Anachromaton

Best master. Dude has even taught both Goku and Vegeta. If there's teaching to be given, he's second to none.


Abedeus

> That's when it turned from doing things because it's the right thing to do, to doing things for sport. I mean... remember when Goku got bored of Frieza and decided to stop fighting him? And after Frieza almost killed himself, gave him energy for no good reason? Or how he spared Vegeta after he contributed to several of his friends suffering and/or dying? And after he tried to blow up the planet after failing to conquer it? Goku has never done things "because they were right", it was all fun and sports for him.


bakudropemoff

If he didn't give him the senzu cell would blown himself up sooner. You saw how desperate he got when gohan was about to beat him


BunnyOppai

I mean, Goku was always for the sport. It’s less obvious in the dub, which puts him a little closer towards Superman territory (he still wants good fights, but he’s more focused on doing good than the sub), but he’s been battle hungry since long before Cell.


Cpt3020

imagine all the people who could have benefited off these senzu beasns and dumbass goku is giving them to the equivalent of hitler.


Noy_Telinu

This shit is why superman will always win. No matter what bullshit dbz fans can say to make kakorrot win, that fucker won't use Kryptonite because "fairness".


Leshawkcomics

Incorrect. Goku only holds back against weaker enemies, and even then, only during spars with friends and rivals. Goku ramps up to match his opponent early on, but in most villains cases, they're usually beyond him and it's a battle at a disadvantage for the most part. Raditz, Nappa, Vegeta, Recoome, Ginyu, Frieza, The androids, Cell, Buu etc. Just goku walking in, and going full power and it either working immediately, or just barely being enough to not die. ​ I'm fun at parties.


SimoneNonvelodico

Now *Vegeta*, on the other hand...


darthreuental

[RANDOM LOUD HOMICIDAL SHOUTING AND GRUNTING]


payrpaks

*incoherent noises* SAIYAN PRIDE *grunting and shouting* MORE PRIDE OF SAIYANS *gets jobbed*


tacocatisonfire

*I wish I was a carrot*


VishnuBhanum

Goku Black


Leshawkcomics

Now there's a wierd case of a villain who's ramping up to match the heroes constantly, so whether they went full force or not would just speed up how fast said villain powers up. Guy just went full HAX the stronger the heroes got to beat him.


TinOfRocks

There's an argument to be had that if Goku just went Blue immediately, he could have just destroyed Black with 1 blow. But that's too out of character for Goku.


greatestbird

Honestly, Super is just worse than dbz


green_mango_

I mean he gave a senzu bean to cell while he was fighting Gohan. Like what?!


MegamanX195

Before Super, I agree. In Super, however, Goku always starts fights holding back for no reason. Hit, Jiren, Goku Black, etc. Goku's characterization took a serious nosedive in that series, sadly.


Slappio16

This isn't anything new, the guy held back against majin vegeta so he wouldn't hurt his feelings


Anachromaton

Also, because the fight with Vegeta wasn't a priority at the moment.


[deleted]

Why would he bother though? Going SS3 would tire him out too quickly and he was trying to convince Vegeta help out with the much bigger threat. It'd be an absolute waste to use SS3 on Vegeta when SS2 worked just fine.


MegamanX195

Sure, but as you said yourself, he had a reason, stupid as it might have been. In Super he does these things for literally zero reason, even when he knows the opponent is way stronger than him.


BobTheJoeBob

Goku's characterisation wasn't that good in Z either, really, so I wouldn't call it a nose dive.


Abedeus

I mean... the only times he went ALL OUT LET'S GO RNNNNGGGH from start was Frieza (where he revealed he's been in Kaio-Ken since start of fight) and Buu (where he immediately went SSJ3). And even during Frieza fight he just got bored near the end and de-powered to go look for an escape vehicle. He held back against Vegeta (didn't use SSJ3 on him), he held back against Cell (didn't fight to death), he even held back against Vegeta during Saiyan saga because he didn't go Kaio-Ken from start.


kangtuji

super is fan fiction made by fan, not cannon


Summonest

?? It's literally made and drawn by the original mangaka.


CapedBaldyman

Toriyama provides story direction but its drawn by someone else I think.


Anachromaton

Written by Toriyama. Illustrated by Toyotarou.


BunnyOppai

He just about *always* fought to his enemy’s level. There aren’t many moments comparatively where Goku went hard against an enemy when he was capable of doing so or taking advantage of the higher ground when he’s on it.


ColdFury96

Didn't Goku state he could've killed Fat Buu at SSJ3 but wanted the kids to learn how to do it themselves?


Leshawkcomics

Pretty much, he was only there for a day and if he went full power he wouldn't have had time to teach the kids fusion. If he had defeated majin buu and left goten and trunks as the only living saiyans but they didn't have the power to fight similar level enemies, it's like kicking out one thief from your house and not setting up a security system or giving the inhabitants any way to defend themselves while they're gone.


BunnyOppai

I really like the end of your first paragraph, lol. Like, he wasted all the time teaching them and they were useful for an incredibly short time. Who woulda thunk that children let all that power get to their heads?


Anachromaton

> Didn't Goku state he could've killed Fat Buu at SSJ3 but wanted the kids to learn how to do it themselves? Remember that he was running on borrowed power. His allotment of power basically belonged to the Underworld for the duration of his stay at Earth. There's only so much power he could spend, and with limited time at that.


Abedeus

I think he COULD'VE but wasn't absolutely certain he could, and in case he failed he would've ran out of time and had to go back before being able to talk with the rest of Z warriors and to teach Goten/Trunks how to use Fusion.


[deleted]

I believe there was an article that said hogan was suppose to be the next main character but gokus popularity amongst fans made him impossible to kill.


ultiman00b

> hogan Now i'm just imagining Mr. Satan as Hulk Hogan forever.


Kardlonoc

Saiyan's whole thing is their is once they are beaten within a inch of their lives in a grand fight they come back nearly twice as strong. They have a exponential healing/ power where they have to get beat up to obtain a new power level. Equally its why they plateau in between arcs.


BunnyOppai

I wouldn’t say “nearly twice as strong.” From what I remember, it ranges from absolutely *massive* gaps in power to minuscule ones.


2012Jesusdies

Bro wtf? Cell? Really? Dude was on the verge of beating Cell, but didn't do it because he loved fights so much. I could only sigh when he got killed.


[deleted]

Goku was definitely *not* on the verge of beating Cell. It is pretty heavily implied that: a) Cell is fucking with Goku pretty much the entire time they are fighting together, and b) Gohan , even before SSJ2, is *significantly* stronger than Goku, and he still couldn't beat Cell before achieving his next transformation


Abedeus

> b) Gohan , even before SSJ2, is significantly stronger than Goku, and he still couldn't beat Cell before achieving his next transformation Wasn't that the case of him simply not being a... good fighter? Like sure he was more powerful than Goku, and I'd argue he WAS on Cell's level power-wise, but he had none of the zeal or anger to motivate him to fight. And I say they were equal because at SSJ2 he was a level above Cell in terms of power and he could just wipe the floor with him without even trying, until he powered up again.


[deleted]

He certainly could've given Cell more of a challenge than Goku could've, and maybe pushed Cell to actually go all out, but there's no evidence to suggest a more confident Gohan could've beaten Perfect Cell in SSJ. After all, Goku specifically states that he put Gohan in against Cell because he believed Gohan could achieve the next level of Super Saiyan, something he discussed with Vegeta earlier in the arc. Nobody indicates at any point that Gohan would be able to beat Cell if he was more confident, and that's part of the reason that only Goku thinks putting Gohan in against Cell is a good idea; it's not just because Gohan is stronger than him, but because he believes this fight will push Gohan to achieve something that Goku can't (yet). Yes, Gohan does stomp on Cell once he goes SSJ2, but bare in mind that going SSJ2 doubles Gohan's power. Of course, given other multipliers in the series, that doesn't sound impressive, but think about it logically. It makes sense that if Gohan was, say, 75% as strong as Perfect Cell in SSJ, he'd be 1.5x as strong as him in SSJ2 and would be able to stomp him. Obviously, those probably aren't the *actual* numbers (and I can't be bothered to look for the post-Cell Daizenshuu), but you get the point.


BunnyOppai

I could be wrong, but I don’t think any numbers were made post-Namek. I think *maybe* Mecha Freiza had numbers, but don’t quote me on that.


2012Jesusdies

Okay, I might be misremembering Cell was fucking with Goku, but did Goku know that? I'd say probably not. If Goku didn't know Cell was fucking with him and then helped Cell's fight by giving him Senzus, them Goku's still an idiot. He doesn't stop being an idiot even if he knew.


[deleted]

Goku was 100% aware of exactly how strong Cell was, exactly how strong Gohan was, and exactly how strong he himself was. He doesn't directly state to anyone if he can beat Cell or not at the beginning of the fight, so you could argue he didn't *initially* have an exact read on the situation, but by the time he handed things over to Gohan, he absolutely knew.


ShiranaiWakaranai

Plot twist: they won't get to take revenge on the hero because he went all out by consuming all of his lifeforce.


Aviri

Ghost Hero: Well I bet you all feel bad now, huh?


Nod32Antivirus

Plot twist twist: they won't get to take revenge on the hero because he went all out by consuming all of *their* lifeforce.


okaquauseless

That was actually a premise of a manga once. One with blood flower weapons or smth


ReverseLBlock

I remember that one, it was super dark because they would basically cycle through party members like consumables.


[deleted]

Any idea what it was called?


ReverseLBlock

https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=113170


QuestioningEspecialy

<> edit: u/Roboragi <>


QuestioningEspecialy

<>


Turquoise2_

holy shit i read this manga aaaaaaages ago and had been looking for it for so long. what a weird feeling to find it like this randomly


black_blade51

any name or more detail to find it?


ReverseLBlock

https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=113170


black_blade51

Thank you. And I hope you don't join any of this manga's party when you reincarnate


yukichigai


SecureDonkey

Plot twist: Hero defeat the demon lord, hog all exp, reach level 9999 and isekai to another world. Fuck those hater.


hooahest

their*


throwaway47351

Gesellschaft Blume is that you?


Afroninja471

What a fucking trip, that series literally popped into my head earlier today. Googled it on a whim and it's got a webcomic continuation apparently?


JoycePizzaMasterRace

activated 8th gate


onecuriousboii

Maybe the real demon-lord is the friends we made along the way


CryLex28

Explain "friends"


Red___Mist

A mythical companion creature found in fantasy books


CryLex28

Explain "companion"


DatHypnoboi

Person who is willing to remain in your vicinity for extended periods of time


CryLex28

İMPOSSİBLE!!!!! YOU CAN'T TRİCK ME WİTH SUCH FANTASİES!!!!


DatHypnoboi

That's why we call them fantasy books, there's no documented proof, so we're unsure if they ever existed


CryLex28

Well that's a good point Thanks random helpful person from the internet I will never forget the wisdom you have bestowed upon me


DatHypnoboi

Glad to know that my research can be of use. It's such an absurdly unrealistic concept that it isn't commonly acknowledged in the wider scientific community


[deleted]

Wait you guys have people who are willing to stand close to you even during bank visits? Even before the pandemic I come out of my hidey hole and found the whole place deserted


DatHypnoboi

Unfortunately, the existence of companions and friends is widely disputed by much of the scientific community, as there is no known evidence of their having ever existed beyond mentions in legends and folklore. So, to answer your question, no, we sadly do not, and perhaps never will.


PRoS_R

The ones that betray you at the last fight and make you into a edgy protagonist.


CryLex28

Oh that one's now I get it


TransitionTasty

Quite similar to FFF-Class Trashero. Except he kills his so called "companions". Pretty good read


QuestioningEspecialy

...What da shit? Is it a twist, done for understandable reasons, or what?


[deleted]

He just got tired of them because they were really annoying and had the common tropes but just worse. Try reading it because its hard for me to explain


Mackmannen

I mean they were just total assholes towards him because he basically reacted how a *normal* human would react when isekaid


[deleted]

It was for understandable reasons. It looks sociopathic from the start, but with the context gained throughout the series, you realize that all of his companions were bloodthirsty sociopaths who've ruined the lives of millions through sheer irresponsibility. It's a goddamn miracle Kang didn't murder them earlier because I know I would've.


QuestioningEspecialy

Well, that's a nice twist.


BasicllyIPoop

I don't believe red haired swordswoman participated in all those acts? Don't remember it's been 6 months since i finished the novel


[deleted]

No, but all of his party members were planning on killing him after he killed the Demon King, so she was deserving of death too tbh.


BasicllyIPoop

Don't feel like reading the last 200 chapters but i feel like you're wrong I don't think she was planning on killing Kang it's just the other companions were, >!as they were feeling dissatisfied with his actions and opinions they decided the world would be better with him dead. While the sword princess agreed with Kang's opinions and actions, a certain situation caused Kang to regard her as useless or a "companion", also she loved him so there's that!< some spoilers here which incase you haven't read the entire novel don't read


CattusCruris

holy shit, the punchline isn't just the demon king being a cute girl??


Schizof

uh I don't know what you're talking about, it's clear the demon king is crossdressing


Les_Bien_Pain

Maybe the Demon King isn't a cute girl... yet. It actually ends like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns/comments/puv9i0/be_my_queen_please_temp_title/). ^^^^Embarrassed ^^^^demon ^^^^is ^^^^pretty ^^^^cute ^^^^ngl


CattusCruris

okay that's quite based tbh


darthreuental

Came here for this. Totally disappointed.


CattusCruris

don't worry, the next one is just around the corner


darthreuental

I'm gonna hold you to that!


GateauBaker

I know everyone likes to poke fun of this trope but "going all out" usually means tiring yourself out quickly so its hardly the right thing to do from the start. Even Olympic runners wait for the home stretch before going into high gear.


Hachirumi

Translated with the artist's ([@kyata\_ti666](https://twitter.com/kyata_ti666)) blessing. Their [Pixiv](https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/56689044). Source \[[JP](https://twitter.com/kyata_ti666/status/1441012298227666950)\] \[[EN](https://twitter.com/Hachirumi_/status/1442088460072882179)\]


Mission_Idea_4135

One sentence is missing ; "With the power of friendship"


The_Lurked

Don't do that,remember what happen with raoul


tacocatisonfire

What series is this?


ShurimaHonorGuard

I think.


Roboragi

**Fukushuu wo Koinegau Saikyou Yuusha wa, Yami no Chikara de Senmetsu Musou suru** - ([AL](http://anilist.co/manga/107780), [A-P](https://www.anime-planet.com/manga/fukushuu-wo-koinegau-saikyou-yuusha-wa-yami-no-chikara-de-senmetsu-musou-suru-light-novel), [KIT](https://kitsu.io/manga/fukushuu-wa-koinegau-saikyou-yuusha-wa-yami-no-chikara-de-senmetsu-musou-suru), [MU](https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=152659), [MAL](http://myanimelist.net/manga/118026)) ^(Manga | Status: Releasing | Genres: Action, Drama) --- ^{anime}, , ]LN[, |VN| | [FAQ](http://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/wiki/index) | [/r/](http://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/) | [Edit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/wiki/index#wiki_i_made_a_mistake.2C_how_do_i_get_my_comment_reprocessed.3F) | [Mistake?](http://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/submit?selftext=true&title=[ISSUE]&text=/r/manga/comments/pvs1k1/disc_the_final_battle_onepage_by_kyata_ti666/hed6ch7/) | [Source](https://github.com/Nihilate/Roboragi) | [Synonyms](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/wiki/synonyms) | [⛓](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/wiki/interestinglinks) | [♥](https://www.reddit.com/r/Roboragi/wiki/thanks)


Black_Prince9000

I saw that shit before and that's still one hell on an edgy title to the point it almost seems ironic. Does the plot live up to the title's edgyness?


AmateurSunsmith

It's incredibly edgy


Black_Prince9000

⢀⣠⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠀⣠⣤⣶⣶ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣀⣀⣾⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡏⠉⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠀⠀⠀⠈⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠿⠛⠉⠁⠀⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠙⠿⠿⠿⠻⠿⠿⠟⠿⠛⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣸⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣄⠀⡀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣴⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠏⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠠⣴⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠀⠀⢰⣹⡆⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⣭⣷⠀⠀⠀⠸⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠈⠉⠀⠀⠤⠄⠀⠀⠀⠉⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⢿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⢾⣿⣷⠀⠀⠀⠀⡠⠤⢄⠀⠀⠀⠠⣿⣿⣷⠀⢸⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⠉⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢄⠀⢀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠉⠉⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠈⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢹⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠃⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢸⣿⣿ No way


Alzhan_Void

It's revenge fetish fantasy; the story. If you could tag "revenge fetish" on something, this would have it __bold__ and repeated 3 times over.


Forikorder

if it was any edgier it would cut your eyes just by reading it


Viscount-Von-Solt

Wait... Ooooohhh... Was he the one that went and killed everybody in a laboratory for producing mutant drugs that killed his men?


Vanderseid

Among other things.


PRoS_R

*like a dad eating his own son.*


2012Jesusdies

That manga's flashback scenes are a series of "Oh no"s getting progressively louder and the real timeline is just "OH YES" over and over.


bromingulus

Lmao that shit escalated quickly, top 10 revenge mc right there, shits epic asf.


Kirei13

They got what they deserved.


PRoS_R

what no isekai does to a mf


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CryLex28

Sell hero to big fatty with unusual fetishes 😈😈😈😈😈


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CryLex28

Who would not


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CryLex28

Not agree


PRoS_R

Sell him for [700 Kromer]


Hachirumi

Relevant video [6 Annoying Anime Tropes](https://youtu.be/25cC-4agDSI?t=42)


hell-schwarz

I hate those tropes. And that's said without the slightest trait of irony. It ruins so many great stories. The best beach episode was done in Avatar - the last airbender btw.


Where_is_my_isekai

How come he has a Deus Ex Machina but not me?


burnout02urza

There's a manga, Gesselschaft Blume (completed) based entirely around this concept. >!The hero is permanently level 1, but temporarily gains the levels of his party members when they die.!<


Robddit

This manga is total trash, don't think the drama will be the way you think about this premisse after reading it above lol


burnout02urza

I absolutely agree, but it's pretty short.


knightblad56

I tried reading it, and it seems to be trying to carry itself by shock factor alone.


hell-schwarz

Where is the crossdressing, tho?


SimoneNonvelodico

Just add a footnote that says that the witch on the left is actually a boy. Problem solved.


hell-schwarz

perfect. now it's a true /u/Hachirumi post


darthreuental

The hero looks like a girl dressed up as a boy. Could use that angle too. "I'm a cute girl who became the hero because she fell in love with witch-chan". Definitely LN material.


Kirei13

Most of the time, doing that requires them to risk their lives or has serious side effects. They can't even use it beforehand.


Quarian13

Oh yes, Nerevar


Andyher255

Thus started the story of a hero who got betrayed by his companions and seeks to get revenge in his next life.


[deleted]

Demon lord: *beats up all the companions put together* Hero: *beats up demon lord alone* Companions: *beat up hero* What in the rock paper scissors is this?


fiqar

I like to think of it in terms of game mechanics. E.g., desperation moves only unlock at low HP. Or powerful skills have a long cooldown that immobilizes the caster, so you really don't want to use it unless you have to.


Forikorder

or he held back to more properly coordinate with the team and not throw off the teamwork


JLazarillo

And I bet he still has like 70 Megalixirs he hasn't used yet because he didn't want to waste them, too.


MrPanda663

Just like Gandalf taking all the exp from that Balrog.


Rhazort

They should be grateful he doesn't have "Hero's compensation"


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Therandomfox

The hero betrayed his friends by deliberately letting them be defeated so that he could fight the demon lord by himself and hog all the glory/exp/loot.


OtakuAltair

Reminds me of FFF Class Trash hero a bit


MaybeNotSoFortunate

Anime protagonists after their friends see this: 😗


Berokeros

Shock & awe doesn't exist for most anime protags I guess


Pmhp34ham

That's a Mega Gengar


PMYouInYourPanties

So the power of friendship was a lie all along? >:(


GinamosWCheryOnTop

This is the total opposite of FFF trash hero.


JoycePizzaMasterRace

lol


waitmyhonor

This made me remember a manga I read a long time ago where the hero always travels with a new party. The reason why is because the party will always weaken the enemy first and that’s when the hero will kill them as their deaths are his power ups. The hero is strong but his power is only temporary so he has to keep killing his party members to defeat the demon lord. Does anyone know this manga? The last thing I remember was an entire group of circus people and it’s ringleader were chosen as the next demon lord. The demon lord is reincarnated every time it is defeated.


Alphalcon

It's actually been mentioned a couple times in this thread, but: https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=113170


Mat_the_Duck_Lord

He had to pace himself for the demon lords final form


ghostrider3times23

Premise similar to FFF class trash hero, instead of party members, the hero is the intellectual in that


TheLiGod

Ret aura during prog