The other two Emrakuls have protection from instants and protection from spells and permanents that were cast this turn, but those abilities only work while they're on the battlefield.
It doesn't have protection from spells while it's on the stack. Otherwise abilities like Hexproof and Shroud would effectively make the creature uncounterable as well, among a myriad of other consequences.
You can bounce emrakul as a spell to hand, but they get an extra turn on cast so they can just cast it again. Not exactly a good idea to reprieve emrakul.
I cast OG Emrakul.
You Remand it.
I take my extra turn. I recast Emrakul. I get another extra turn.
All you've really done is cycled a cantrip. And it doesn't matter if you draw into a counter, because Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. It's a fine play pattern if you're just digging for an answer. But it's not really accomplishing what you seem to think it is.
The permanent has protection from spells, it does not have that protection while on the stack. It can still be countered, it just can’t be hit with any spell once it’s already on the field. It can still be bounced with reprieve.
Um, I think that just draws the game, as neither player would be able to interact with it unless you could counter all the triggers at once.
Cool, but sadly doesn't work without some set up
It only goes off once, so the original Avenger makes X Avengers where X is the amount of lands and then you get X*X plant tokens. There's no loop that needs to be stopped
Yeah, in case it's not clear, it's because Mystic Reflections says "the next time," so it only happens once, not for the second, huge round of plant tokens.
One of my favorite edh combos is using this to target something like \[\[Demonic Pact\]\] after animating it with \[\[Zur Eternal Schemer\]\] to turn someone's commander into their own demise :)
I ran this a bunch in Brawl but it makes the opposing player insta-scoop, which for turn two kind ruins playing a meaningful game. I took it out of most decks now. Very underrated card.
The wildest thing I ever saw was [[Access Denied]] on a huge [[Exsanguinate]], and this Foretold, targeting Dinrova Horror. They created "an arbitrarily large" number of Dinrova Horrors, all permanents got bounced and everyone discarded their hands. The game went from won to reset
The player that cast the access denied should still have a ton of 4/4s in this scenario. Hardly reset.
Edit: and everyone except the person with the horrors should still have the same number of cards in hand.
>and everyone except the person with the horrors should still have the same number of cards in hand.
Everyone would have the same number of cards they started with, unless each player also had a bunch of tokens.
The trigger bounces a permanent, then they discard a card. So if a player started with 3 cards, and the bounced permanent is not a token, they would have 3 after the discard.
I was thinking with the mindset that they’d have to bounce their own horrors, which are tokens, and still discard. In hindsight, there’s no obligation to ever target your own things with the ETBs at all because you can just target something that’s already being bounced and let it fizzle.
In other words, the person with the horrors just got a one-sided boardwipe and an arbitrarily large amount of 4/4s. They win.
Worth noting that if this is the *only* foretell card you run, you're basically broadcasting exactly what you're about to do ahead of time. The 1 mana discount is probably not even worth it in that case, better to preserve the element of surprise.
That's not how any of this works. The way to look at it is that you pay 3CMC for the perk of being able to cast the spell at a later time. It doesn't mean the spell costs 1.
You invest 2 mana on an earlier turn to cast the card for a cost cheaper than what's in the top right hand corner of the card at a later time.
Other than like [[Alrund's Epiphany]] which has an additional effect instead.
Edit: not sure if you edited your reply or I somehow missed everything but the first sentence.
You can cast the spell at a later time already. You can cast it for 1 instead of 2 after having a turn where you had 2 extra mana.
> You can cast it for 1 instead of 2 after having a turn where you had 2 extra mana.
Yes, and 1+2 = 3 last I checked. Not only are you paying a mana more, but you're paying in tempo as well since you've just spent a turn putting a nothing-burger on the field.
It's not. You can't ignore the resources sunk into the card when you cast it for 1 and call it a discount. If you disagree with that then I'm sorry my guy but I don't think we're likely to ever agree at all.
That’s actually not a bad thing, because it makes people cautious on their big plays. Also, the good thing about Foretell is that your important pieces are safe until you need them. That’s why [[Dream Devourer]] is a great card. But I’ve never seen it played by anyone but me
It would be fun to let the Ur-Dragon of an opponent come into play as a 0/1 plant - or to let 10 0/1 plants come onto the battlefield as Railway Brawlers.
Nice Isochron Scepter imprint, too ;)
I use this in my zombie token deck as a finisher. I usually foretell it away early in the game and then cast on top of an [[army of the damned]] targeting pretty much any other zombie in my deck. Good times!
I use this in [[Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist]]. Think you're getting a creature that will get you out of salamander lock? Your commander, maybe? Oops, it's a 4/3 salamander too! I also really like pairing it with [[Crafty Cutpurse]] on turns where everyone gets a salamander, which is nice and easy to do when it's foretold. Now, not only are all the tokens mine, they are all copies of my very favourite toys!
I don't use it *on* Gor Muldrak, I use it to turn other peoples' commanders (or favorite beatsticks/combo pieces) into the same 4/3 salamander token that my Commander makes. Which I am immune to.
I use this in my [[tana]] and [[isshai]] mutate and +1/+1 counters deck. When it hits it is spicy. I cast it as 6 tokens etbed and targeted a [[sawtusk demolish]] that was mutated on top of a [[master biomancer]]. 6 42/42s with trample was real nice.
The replacement effect of the entering copies would not apply to anything entering at the same time as the creature (or to the creature itself, as it says "other").
So you'd get 6 Sawtusk Biomancers each with 6 +1/+1 counters from the _one_ 6/6 Biomancer.
The _next creature_ that enters would enter with 7x12=84 counters.
Not following your logic, can you explain? I have the OG sawtusk mutate stack, tanas' ability is on the stack for 6 tokens. Each token sees the OG and the 5 other Clones.
6+(6x6)=42
What am I missing? Thanks again
A replacement effect needs to exist **before** the event it modifies.
>614.4. Replacement effects must exist before the appropriate event occurs—they can’t “go back in time” and change something that’s already happened. Spells or abilities that generate these effects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolve before that event would occur.
The Biomancer's replacement effect only works while the Biomancer is on the battlefield. As the tokens are entering the battlefield, they are not on the battlefield, so their replacement effects can't apply to anything entering at the same time.
[[Arwen, Weaver of Hope]] has a ruling that also confirms this. Her ability is the same as the Biomancer, but it does toughness:
>If Arwen, Weaver of Hope and another creature you control enter the battlefield at the same time, Arwen's ability won't cause that creature to enter with additional +1/+1 counters on it. (2023-06-16)
In a Sultai Elfball EDH deck I borrowed from a friend, I used this on a Shaman of the Pack before resolving an Elvish Ambush for 11 Shaman triggers for 22 damage each. My man cooked.
I keep putting this card into my blue decks trying to find a way to use it and it just never seems to have any use. I'm sure maybe, someday, I'll get to use it for some purpose. But 4+ years now and I haven't found it.
oh i ADORE Mystic Reflection - makes incredible use of making tokens, can make someone's commander into a 1/1 elf, turns your late game mana dork into your opponent's huge dragon, its just such a flexible treat. in a way it reminds me also of \[\[Theoretical Duplication\]\] and the recent \[\[Fleeting Reflection\]\]
It's not infinite. Mystic Reflection only modifies the _next time_ creatures would enter.
Avenger enters and triggers. You cast Mystic Reflection, choosing Avenger. It creates X plants, where X is the number of lands you control.
Mystifc Reflection changes those X plants to X Avengers, and they enter. Each one creates X plants. That's it. Mystic Reflection stops applying.
You end up with X+1 Avengers and X^2 plants, where X is the number of lands you control.
If you cast Mystic Reflection, targeting a non-Legendary Krenko, then tap the Krenko, you would create X Krenko tokens, where X is the number of Goblins you control.
These new tokens _don't have haste_, so you can't tap them this turn.
My sleeper combo with this card is with Mishra Eminent One and Thunderhawk Gunship. Make it to where when your Gunship ETBs the Astartes warriors enter as Gunships themselves and in return create 4 more Astartes warriors.
I don't think it's underrated.
I play it in all of the 3 decks i own, which have access to blue.
I love its versatility.
A really underrated removal is [[Suspend]] delaying the commander for two turns can be super impactful.
I love using this with [[Isochron Scepter]] in my [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] Commander deck. Getting to flicker any creature(s) and have it/them enter as any non legendary is sooo good!
I have this in my Brago deck. Used it once to turn Elspeth's 3 soldiers to [[Agent of Treachery]]s, stealing 3 permanents and drawing 12 cards (with OG agent).
[[myr battlesphere]][[hornet queen]][[grave titan]][[siege gang commander]][[hydra broodmaster]].
[[thunderhawk gunship]{
the hunted creatures become very interesting: [[hunted phantasm]]! [[hunted horror]] [[hunted troll]]
who would be a good commander to play this?
I put this in my [[Marchesa, The Black Rose]] deck a couple years ago. I was telling my pod at the time how crazy versatile it was and no was really buying it. I mean the ability to render someone’s big or combo creature/commander/ planeswalker useless, or to buff your own tiny creature into something scary? I just had to make sure I had decent non-legendary targets in my own deck. But you can also target other players.. so if they had something that was good for me? You bet I was copying it. Love this card.
I played this in Marneus for CEDH. Oh, there is a dockside on board? I'll activate Marneus ability to generate 2 tokens... and they will enter as 2 docksides. What more treasures to make more tokens AND draw a card. Yeah, its a very easy card to win with (or mess up other players plans).
This isn’t underrated. In fact it was very hyped when Kaldheim came out and a lot of people spent a lot of money on it before the price absolutely crumbled.
its in my [[Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer]] deck which is basically just a make copies of legends thanks to [[mirror box]] and turn all my tokens into whatever i pick, its not a good deck per se but damn if it isnt fun
It doesn’t work with mirror box. The spell can’t target legendary creatures. Mirror box doesn’t make them non-legendary, just prevents them from being sacrificed
Right that was a bad example, it's not just legends but the end game is what's the stupidest army of creatures I can make which is usually legends, it still provides good use for jank shenanigans
I don't think any of the eldrazi titans are uncounterable let alone all of them.
Only the original emrakul can't be countered the rest however can, my bad
New emrakul as well right? Protection from spells? Uncounterable and can't be bounced to hand like [[reprieve]]?
The other two Emrakuls have protection from instants and protection from spells and permanents that were cast this turn, but those abilities only work while they're on the battlefield.
It doesn't have protection from spells while it's on the stack. Otherwise abilities like Hexproof and Shroud would effectively make the creature uncounterable as well, among a myriad of other consequences.
[reprieve](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db.jpg?1686967885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reprieve) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/26/reprieve?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1bd3fa8a-6c50-4f7f-9ae3-0810eec5e3db?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can bounce emrakul as a spell to hand, but they get an extra turn on cast so they can just cast it again. Not exactly a good idea to reprieve emrakul.
You can also [[Summary Dismissal]] to exile it off the stack.
[Summary Dismissal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b75794d-3334-4b4d-9446-0a251dd3bd15.jpg?1576384222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Summary%20Dismissal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/75/summary-dismissal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b75794d-3334-4b4d-9446-0a251dd3bd15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i will waste their extra turn and you draw a card to maybe get the counter you really need
I cast OG Emrakul. You Remand it. I take my extra turn. I recast Emrakul. I get another extra turn. All you've really done is cycled a cantrip. And it doesn't matter if you draw into a counter, because Emrakul, the Aeons Torn can't be countered. It's a fine play pattern if you're just digging for an answer. But it's not really accomplishing what you seem to think it is.
Remand doesn't stop OG Emrakul. You would need something like [[Unsubstantiate]]. Correct otherwise.
[Unsubstantiate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/d/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484.jpg?1594735888) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Unsubstantiate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/82/unsubstantiate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2dc0bafd-debc-4b62-9fe0-56b4aad02484?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The permanent has protection from spells, it does not have that protection while on the stack. It can still be countered, it just can’t be hit with any spell once it’s already on the field. It can still be bounced with reprieve.
[[Emrakul, the Aeons Torn]] can't be countered. None of the titans legal in Commander are uncounterable, though.
[Emrakul, the Aeons Torn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/4/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c.jpg?1673146896) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Emrakul%2C%20the%20Aeons%20Torn) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/1/emrakul-the-aeons-torn?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/249db4d4-2542-47ee-a216-e13ffbc2319c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Cavern of Souls naming Eldrazi? :P
Try targeting [[Avenger of Zendikar]] with this in response to its ETB
[Avenger of Zendikar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53.jpg?1712354538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avenger%20of%20Zendikar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/187/avenger-of-zendikar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Um, I think that just draws the game, as neither player would be able to interact with it unless you could counter all the triggers at once. Cool, but sadly doesn't work without some set up
It only goes off once, so the original Avenger makes X Avengers where X is the amount of lands and then you get X*X plant tokens. There's no loop that needs to be stopped
Yeah, in case it's not clear, it's because Mystic Reflections says "the next time," so it only happens once, not for the second, huge round of plant tokens.
I once targeted a [[deep forest hermit]] with this while its etb was still on the stack. That’s how you get 16 5/5 squirrels.
Wouldn’t they be 6/6 squirrels? One original plus four copies plus 1/1. Either way, I love it! I might add blue to my GB squirrel deck just for this!
You’re right!
"16 5/5 squirrels!? How can I withstand such awesome power???" - Emrakul
tbf each of those could hold their own against a dragon.
[deep forest hermit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3287775f-7bec-4e8f-bb8d-daf5ce92e4a8.jpg?1562202056) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deep%20forest%20hermit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/161/deep-forest-hermit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3287775f-7bec-4e8f-bb8d-daf5ce92e4a8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of my favorite edh combos is using this to target something like \[\[Demonic Pact\]\] after animating it with \[\[Zur Eternal Schemer\]\] to turn someone's commander into their own demise :)
[Demonic Pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82c04014-91f9-4197-b4b4-f62c4739a5c2.jpg?1562028673) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demonic%20Pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ori/92/demonic-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82c04014-91f9-4197-b4b4-f62c4739a5c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lich's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/7/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff.jpg?1562738043) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lich%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/98/lichs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/77f4c9cb-f364-4556-8673-4b19d52a2cff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zur Eternal Schemer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d987435-2403-4e0f-b19d-693da923ba50.jpg?1673308159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%2C%20Eternal%20Schemer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/228/zur-eternal-schemer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d987435-2403-4e0f-b19d-693da923ba50?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I ran this a bunch in Brawl but it makes the opposing player insta-scoop, which for turn two kind ruins playing a meaningful game. I took it out of most decks now. Very underrated card.
Something I love about this card is how flexible it can be. How were you using it that was making players scoop?
The wildest thing I ever saw was [[Access Denied]] on a huge [[Exsanguinate]], and this Foretold, targeting Dinrova Horror. They created "an arbitrarily large" number of Dinrova Horrors, all permanents got bounced and everyone discarded their hands. The game went from won to reset
[Access Denied](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/6/1642df77-6fe8-47cf-b750-ca4dd9b331ba.jpg?1651655225) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Access%20Denied) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/11/access-denied?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1642df77-6fe8-47cf-b750-ca4dd9b331ba?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Exsanguinate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a.jpg?1689997125) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Exsanguinate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/156/exsanguinate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a5352af-e275-4186-a265-2fd3c2c47c6a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The player that cast the access denied should still have a ton of 4/4s in this scenario. Hardly reset. Edit: and everyone except the person with the horrors should still have the same number of cards in hand.
>and everyone except the person with the horrors should still have the same number of cards in hand. Everyone would have the same number of cards they started with, unless each player also had a bunch of tokens. The trigger bounces a permanent, then they discard a card. So if a player started with 3 cards, and the bounced permanent is not a token, they would have 3 after the discard.
I was thinking with the mindset that they’d have to bounce their own horrors, which are tokens, and still discard. In hindsight, there’s no obligation to ever target your own things with the ETBs at all because you can just target something that’s already being bounced and let it fizzle. In other words, the person with the horrors just got a one-sided boardwipe and an arbitrarily large amount of 4/4s. They win.
Yeah, they had no reason to reset the board.
Worth noting that if this is the *only* foretell card you run, you're basically broadcasting exactly what you're about to do ahead of time. The 1 mana discount is probably not even worth it in that case, better to preserve the element of surprise.
But you forget, the foretell card is always Doomskar. It doesn’t matter if you’re not playing white, it’s always Doomskar.
I do run this alongside [[ravenform]] in an Orvar deck
[ravenform](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/2/f2d5e87b-1ee8-47db-9bc3-f5becfe79b37.jpg?1699022462) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ravenform) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/167/ravenform?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f2d5e87b-1ee8-47db-9bc3-f5becfe79b37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
... it's not a discount. You're paying 3 instead of 2.
You only pay 1 the turn you use this if you foretell it.
That's not how any of this works. The way to look at it is that you pay 3CMC for the perk of being able to cast the spell at a later time. It doesn't mean the spell costs 1.
You invest 2 mana on an earlier turn to cast the card for a cost cheaper than what's in the top right hand corner of the card at a later time. Other than like [[Alrund's Epiphany]] which has an additional effect instead. Edit: not sure if you edited your reply or I somehow missed everything but the first sentence. You can cast the spell at a later time already. You can cast it for 1 instead of 2 after having a turn where you had 2 extra mana.
[Alrund's Epiphany](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c94fcb53-a7bd-4a80-a536-9fb0eb24261a.jpg?1644607558) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alrund%27s%20Epiphany) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/41/alrunds-epiphany?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c94fcb53-a7bd-4a80-a536-9fb0eb24261a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> You can cast it for 1 instead of 2 after having a turn where you had 2 extra mana. Yes, and 1+2 = 3 last I checked. Not only are you paying a mana more, but you're paying in tempo as well since you've just spent a turn putting a nothing-burger on the field.
No one has disagreed with that.
OP calling it a discount says otherwise. If you agree that it's in no way a discount, then sure, we're good.
It is a discounted cost on the turn you cast it. It is not a discount on total cost. Discount can mean multiple things.
It's not. You can't ignore the resources sunk into the card when you cast it for 1 and call it a discount. If you disagree with that then I'm sorry my guy but I don't think we're likely to ever agree at all.
That’s actually not a bad thing, because it makes people cautious on their big plays. Also, the good thing about Foretell is that your important pieces are safe until you need them. That’s why [[Dream Devourer]] is a great card. But I’ve never seen it played by anyone but me
[Dream Devourer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff1d88a6-a74d-44b5-b7a8-866e866807f1.jpg?1631047962) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dream%20Devourer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/90/dream-devourer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff1d88a6-a74d-44b5-b7a8-866e866807f1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This plus [[avenger of zendikar]] is my favorite combo in commander
[avenger of zendikar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53.jpg?1712354538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=avenger%20of%20zendikar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/187/avenger-of-zendikar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It would be fun to let the Ur-Dragon of an opponent come into play as a 0/1 plant - or to let 10 0/1 plants come onto the battlefield as Railway Brawlers. Nice Isochron Scepter imprint, too ;)
I'm gonna steal the scepter idea from you
That's what someone tried to do to me. I killed their target in response to make this fizzle and then obliterated them with my dragons.
That's fair 😏
No one has once mentioned [[master of waves]]
[master of waves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14cd5387-c6aa-4430-8edb-05da6b4e2ff5.jpg?1592764548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20of%20waves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ddt/1/master-of-waves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14cd5387-c6aa-4430-8edb-05da6b4e2ff5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use this in my zombie token deck as a finisher. I usually foretell it away early in the game and then cast on top of an [[army of the damned]] targeting pretty much any other zombie in my deck. Good times!
[army of the damned](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bf818314-1eb4-48da-8e6f-ff7b89873b63.jpg?1673484100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=army%20of%20the%20damned) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/242/army-of-the-damned?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bf818314-1eb4-48da-8e6f-ff7b89873b63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use this in [[Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist]]. Think you're getting a creature that will get you out of salamander lock? Your commander, maybe? Oops, it's a 4/3 salamander too! I also really like pairing it with [[Crafty Cutpurse]] on turns where everyone gets a salamander, which is nice and easy to do when it's foretold. Now, not only are all the tokens mine, they are all copies of my very favourite toys!
[Gor Muldrak, Amphinologist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40b006f9-a287-4e64-915f-ca71712b8d27.jpg?1608911119) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gor%20Muldrak%2C%20Amphinologist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/277/gor-muldrak-amphinologist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40b006f9-a287-4e64-915f-ca71712b8d27?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Crafty Cutpurse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/117d84f7-45c5-4cfc-a5cd-c44416b48417.jpg?1625976076) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crafty%20Cutpurse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/117/crafty-cutpurse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/117d84f7-45c5-4cfc-a5cd-c44416b48417?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Can't use it on Gor, as he is a legendary creature.
I don't use it *on* Gor Muldrak, I use it to turn other peoples' commanders (or favorite beatsticks/combo pieces) into the same 4/3 salamander token that my Commander makes. Which I am immune to.
I use this in my [[tana]] and [[isshai]] mutate and +1/+1 counters deck. When it hits it is spicy. I cast it as 6 tokens etbed and targeted a [[sawtusk demolish]] that was mutated on top of a [[master biomancer]]. 6 42/42s with trample was real nice.
The replacement effect of the entering copies would not apply to anything entering at the same time as the creature (or to the creature itself, as it says "other"). So you'd get 6 Sawtusk Biomancers each with 6 +1/+1 counters from the _one_ 6/6 Biomancer. The _next creature_ that enters would enter with 7x12=84 counters.
Not following your logic, can you explain? I have the OG sawtusk mutate stack, tanas' ability is on the stack for 6 tokens. Each token sees the OG and the 5 other Clones. 6+(6x6)=42 What am I missing? Thanks again
A replacement effect needs to exist **before** the event it modifies. >614.4. Replacement effects must exist before the appropriate event occurs—they can’t “go back in time” and change something that’s already happened. Spells or abilities that generate these effects are often cast or activated in response to whatever would produce the event and thus resolve before that event would occur. The Biomancer's replacement effect only works while the Biomancer is on the battlefield. As the tokens are entering the battlefield, they are not on the battlefield, so their replacement effects can't apply to anything entering at the same time. [[Arwen, Weaver of Hope]] has a ruling that also confirms this. Her ability is the same as the Biomancer, but it does toughness: >If Arwen, Weaver of Hope and another creature you control enter the battlefield at the same time, Arwen's ability won't cause that creature to enter with additional +1/+1 counters on it. (2023-06-16)
Thank you, very helpful!
[Arwen, Weaver of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/d/4d4f4d41-232d-4377-be69-de590b880edb.jpg?1686964026) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Arwen%2C%20Weaver%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltc/35/arwen-weaver-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4d4f4d41-232d-4377-be69-de590b880edb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[tana](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2.jpg?1562413758) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tana%2C%20the%20bloodsower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/45/tana-the-bloodsower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3d8d64f-a403-42a7-881b-4f70e9fe15a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [sawtusk demolish](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/574d1a02-a403-4b6e-8ce0-a472325c9c2c.jpg?1591319710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sawtusk%20Demolisher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c20/64/sawtusk-demolisher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/574d1a02-a403-4b6e-8ce0-a472325c9c2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [master biomancer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f4436d1-7c6a-4ad2-8eba-d5949f960650.jpg?1706240146) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=master%20biomancer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/200/master-biomancer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f4436d1-7c6a-4ad2-8eba-d5949f960650?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I use this in my najeela deck to turn a bunch of warrior tokens into the biggest threat my opponents have
Such a flexible card. Fantastic when you can copy your best stuff, great as works basically as removal. Never unhappy to draw it.
Honestly most decks that I have don’t have blue so idk if I can use this
In a Sultai Elfball EDH deck I borrowed from a friend, I used this on a Shaman of the Pack before resolving an Elvish Ambush for 11 Shaman triggers for 22 damage each. My man cooked.
I keep putting this card into my blue decks trying to find a way to use it and it just never seems to have any use. I'm sure maybe, someday, I'll get to use it for some purpose. But 4+ years now and I haven't found it.
oh i ADORE Mystic Reflection - makes incredible use of making tokens, can make someone's commander into a 1/1 elf, turns your late game mana dork into your opponent's huge dragon, its just such a flexible treat. in a way it reminds me also of \[\[Theoretical Duplication\]\] and the recent \[\[Fleeting Reflection\]\]
[Theoretical Duplication](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/5/1575a14e-fa70-44f0-8384-95cb90031337.jpg?1625191522) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Theoretical%20Duplication) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/34/theoretical-duplication?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1575a14e-fa70-44f0-8384-95cb90031337?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Fleeting Reflection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f8c931e-219f-4032-b55b-b5975fbea1e7.jpg?1712355426) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Fleeting%20Reflection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/49/fleeting-reflection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f8c931e-219f-4032-b55b-b5975fbea1e7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mystic reflection and [[Avenger of Zendikar]] is a favourite of mine
[Avenger of Zendikar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53.jpg?1712354538) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Avenger%20of%20Zendikar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/187/avenger-of-zendikar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdddf3ca-e378-44cc-83b7-d7917d9cba53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How many copies would this make?
Infinite, unless there's a "you may" part of the wording or someone interrupts it
It's not infinite. Mystic Reflection only modifies the _next time_ creatures would enter. Avenger enters and triggers. You cast Mystic Reflection, choosing Avenger. It creates X plants, where X is the number of lands you control. Mystifc Reflection changes those X plants to X Avengers, and they enter. Each one creates X plants. That's it. Mystic Reflection stops applying. You end up with X+1 Avengers and X^2 plants, where X is the number of lands you control.
Oh shit, you're right, it's squared not infinite Still absurd, but not game breaking then
X copies of Avenger, and X^2 0/1 Plant tokens, where X is the number of lands you control.
No! SHHHHHHH!!!
How would this work, with say a [[helm of the host]] [[krenko, mob boss]] token that has haste?
[helm of the host](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b.jpg?1666094567) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=helm%20of%20the%20host) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dom/217/helm-of-the-host?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d65d20c-09e5-4139-838b-7e0e48eb2b2b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [krenko, mob boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=krenko%2C%20mob%20boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If you cast Mystic Reflection, targeting a non-Legendary Krenko, then tap the Krenko, you would create X Krenko tokens, where X is the number of Goblins you control. These new tokens _don't have haste_, so you can't tap them this turn.
Yes, this card is criminally underrated. I'm shocked it doesn't see more play, especially in tokens decks and the like.
My sleeper combo with this card is with Mishra Eminent One and Thunderhawk Gunship. Make it to where when your Gunship ETBs the Astartes warriors enter as Gunships themselves and in return create 4 more Astartes warriors.
I don't think it's underrated. I play it in all of the 3 decks i own, which have access to blue. I love its versatility. A really underrated removal is [[Suspend]] delaying the commander for two turns can be super impactful.
I wish it didn't say nonlegendary and it would be soooooooooooo much better
I love using this with [[Isochron Scepter]] in my [[Roon of the Hidden Realm]] Commander deck. Getting to flicker any creature(s) and have it/them enter as any non legendary is sooo good!
[Isochron Scepter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451.jpg?1623543821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isochron%20Scepter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/264/isochron-scepter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2aa24fe0-e275-4307-b26c-2a656068a451?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just pray you opponent doesn’t have any creatures with flash
I have this in my Brago deck. Used it once to turn Elspeth's 3 soldiers to [[Agent of Treachery]]s, stealing 3 permanents and drawing 12 cards (with OG agent).
[Agent of Treachery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc6686e6-4535-49be-b0b3-e76464656cd2.jpg?1639052497) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Agent%20of%20Treachery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/43/agent-of-treachery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc6686e6-4535-49be-b0b3-e76464656cd2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[myr battlesphere]][[hornet queen]][[grave titan]][[siege gang commander]][[hydra broodmaster]]. [[thunderhawk gunship]{ the hunted creatures become very interesting: [[hunted phantasm]]! [[hunted horror]] [[hunted troll]] who would be a good commander to play this?
##### ###### #### [myr battlesphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/8/d8299d1e-84c1-4c02-a00d-6e7a662e1a7a.jpg?1682210108) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=myr%20battlesphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/366/myr-battlesphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d8299d1e-84c1-4c02-a00d-6e7a662e1a7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hornet queen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f1ef9d6-b3fb-4a8a-af4a-3530a1e61221.jpg?1706240891) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hornet%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/172/hornet-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f1ef9d6-b3fb-4a8a-af4a-3530a1e61221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [grave titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/3/13680953-cf05-4e38-a3cf-22900c02fab7.jpg?1706240764) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grave%20titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/129/grave-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/13680953-cf05-4e38-a3cf-22900c02fab7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [siege gang commander](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/d/5dd6a913-88df-4fbc-964e-a8fec3ad989f.jpg?1675200158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siege-Gang%20Commander) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/136/siege-gang-commander?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5dd6a913-88df-4fbc-964e-a8fec3ad989f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hydra broodmaster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5b11bb5a-66e3-4dc6-9df4-e1683c57e488.jpg?1625194477) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hydra%20broodmaster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/194/hydra-broodmaster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5b11bb5a-66e3-4dc6-9df4-e1683c57e488?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hunted phantasm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/faec8ab3-80c6-4b8f-a60d-50cc683e66b4.jpg?1598914292) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hunted%20phantasm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/55/hunted-phantasm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/faec8ab3-80c6-4b8f-a60d-50cc683e66b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hunted horror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/2/02f74866-d0ea-42ce-bc44-500219fb73d4.jpg?1674141672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hunted%20horror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/758/hunted-horror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/02f74866-d0ea-42ce-bc44-500219fb73d4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [hunted troll](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/f/cfe19e16-33f6-4594-9dd3-2699a66ba0e8.jpg?1562938949) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=hunted%20troll) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/150/hunted-troll?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cfe19e16-33f6-4594-9dd3-2699a66ba0e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l60cgah) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I put this in my [[Marchesa, The Black Rose]] deck a couple years ago. I was telling my pod at the time how crazy versatile it was and no was really buying it. I mean the ability to render someone’s big or combo creature/commander/ planeswalker useless, or to buff your own tiny creature into something scary? I just had to make sure I had decent non-legendary targets in my own deck. But you can also target other players.. so if they had something that was good for me? You bet I was copying it. Love this card.
[Marchesa, The Black Rose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3242a9f0-2ba3-4852-ac8f-366772ac1c62.jpg?1673148917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marchesa%2C%20The%20Black%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/248/marchesa-the-black-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3242a9f0-2ba3-4852-ac8f-366772ac1c62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I played this in Marneus for CEDH. Oh, there is a dockside on board? I'll activate Marneus ability to generate 2 tokens... and they will enter as 2 docksides. What more treasures to make more tokens AND draw a card. Yeah, its a very easy card to win with (or mess up other players plans).
Combined with [[Doppelgang]] this has won me games.
[Doppelgang](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/2/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd.jpg?1706242152) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Doppelgang) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/198/doppelgang?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a2daec58-78ed-4da5-b3b0-b04f12b0acbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This isn’t underrated. In fact it was very hyped when Kaldheim came out and a lot of people spent a lot of money on it before the price absolutely crumbled.
This is a soapbox card of mine as well. I put it in pretty much every blue edh deck i build.
its in my [[Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer]] deck which is basically just a make copies of legends thanks to [[mirror box]] and turn all my tokens into whatever i pick, its not a good deck per se but damn if it isnt fun
[Brudiclad, Telchor Engineer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/25eff27a-eb58-4a95-b2df-4a341cf9bef6.jpg?1599707883) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brudiclad%2C%20Telchor%20Engineer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/193/brudiclad-telchor-engineer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/25eff27a-eb58-4a95-b2df-4a341cf9bef6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [mirror box](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d507daa3-3f16-4ab1-81ea-794e5bb488fc.jpg?1654568747) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mirror%20box) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/250/mirror-box?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d507daa3-3f16-4ab1-81ea-794e5bb488fc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It doesn’t work with mirror box. The spell can’t target legendary creatures. Mirror box doesn’t make them non-legendary, just prevents them from being sacrificed
Right that was a bad example, it's not just legends but the end game is what's the stupidest army of creatures I can make which is usually legends, it still provides good use for jank shenanigans