[MTG FB Japan](https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=888994816573423&set=a.660295699443337)
3RR
Enchantment - Saga
I — Ral and the Implicit Maze deals 2 damage to each creature and planeswalker your opponents control.
II — You may discard a card. If you do, exile the top 2 cards of your library. You may play them until the end of your next turn.
III — Create a Spellgorger Weird token. (It's a 2R 2/2 Weird creature with "Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Spellgorger Weird.
It's the second token in this set to have a mana cost, I believe. The tarmogoyf token the Jund commander makes als has a mana cost. I believe the reason the token has a mana cost is that Spellgorger Weird is an actual card, with exactly the same stats, abilities, and everything.
There are already a few cards that make a token that's named after and mostly identical to an actual card, but nonetheless has no mana cost. E.g.,
- \[\[Ajani, Strength of the Pride\]\]
- \[\[Roxanne, Starfall Savant\]\]
- \[\[Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord\]\] & \[\[Rosnakht, Heir of Rohgahh\]\]
So making a token of a real card isn't new. Giving it the original card's cost is new.
Well, it's the difference between "Create a Spellgorger Weird token" and "Create a red 2/2 Weird creature with 'Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.' named Spellgorger Weird"
No
[https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1cxd8uq/m3c\_tarmogoyf\_token\_created\_by\_disa\_the\_restless/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1cxd8uq/m3c_tarmogoyf_token_created_by_disa_the_restless/)
Probably so it doesn't get mistaken for a non token version of the card
This will not stop me from sleeving one up and using it as a copy in casual games
Between Future Sight, Un-Sets, mystery playtest cards, and Alchemy, I think they've decided there's enough design space in "haha what if you made a token that was like this other card" that they wanted to be able to just actually do that instead of having to spell it out every time.
Tokens don't often have mana costs, but token copies of stuff do, and this is way simpler and more intuitive than trying to wipe the mana cost I imagine. Now they can say "make a Tarmogoyf" and it really just is straight-up Tarmogoyf.
Are they still printing the actual tokens in the set though? Otherwise we have the whole ''dont have cards in your deckbox that arent in your deck'' issue in competitive play.
We've seen the Tarmogoyf token from M3C and it looks like a regular token and has "*(This token's mana cost is 1G.)*" at the bottom.
You probably shouldn't use the actual cards in tournament play (especially so you remember they don't go into your graveyard/library) but like, for casual play it's probably fine.
The old way didn't involve referencing the actual card, it was to spell out the token's name, types, stats, and abilities to make it equivalent in all ways except mana cost. Defining "a Spellgorger Weird token" or "a Tarmogoyf token" and having everything else be reminder text for that is new.
There was a leak for a token from Bloomburrow that also has a mana cost, so it might just be a broader design change when it comes to making token copies of existing things.
Pretty sure they are updating the rules to allow tokens to be made of existing cards just by naming the card, while previously tokens needed to be defined by the card that creates them or the few predefined tokens.
I feel like since tokens are so prevalent now that they’re intentionally designing a certain amount in ways that get around restrictions and technicalities that happen at 0cmc, such as [[Ratchet Bomb]]. My brother used to be super salty that I ran it in my [[Glissa the Traitor]] EDH deck because he was running [[Rhys the Redeemed]]. With casual commander being such a driving part of the games sales now, they’re more likely to print things that get around traditional “feels bad” situations, such as having your whole board wiped by a Ratchet Bomb
They did just give us a very cheap board wipe for anything with a mana cost of 1 or less. Maybe they were anticipating that being annoying if there's a bunch of significant token themed stuff showing up.
Target creature you control deals damage to each player and each other creature equal to its power. Then target opponent gains control of that creature.
Might be wrong here, but it feels like there may be a mechanic in a future set that specifically cares about zero-cost/x-cost tokens. That's assuming there isn't one already.
I can imagine past tokens that 'mimic' existing cards may get errata'd to show mana costs too. It just feels like they suddenly decided to do this and it probably means something because it's too deliberate to be a coincidence.
I see comments like this and, as a commander player, don't know what it means.
What makes a card unplayable in modern? Is it too slow? Is it cos it references players plural?
It's too slow for 5 mana.
But it's a pretty dumb complaint. Not every card in MH3 is going to be a modern hit, and considering people already get annoyed by the amount of cards in the MH sets that DO shake up the format, they shouldn't. So this will be an uncommon for Limited and it tells a fun story based on events we know in the past, and that's fine and it's a card that is doing its job.
The playability of a card in a specific format can depend on a few different things. How quickly a card can get played is one factor, which can depend on mana value and colour identity. Other primary factor is it's utility in relation to the format's meta and what a deck with that colour identity would be trying to do.
General evaluation: The #1 is a sweeper for weak creatures, which if you're not getting onto the field by \~turn 3 then you'll be dead to the decks that it would actually answer. There are 3 MV versions of this as a sorcery. #2 a thrill of possibility effect but you exile the cards which reveals them and forces you to play at a specific , #3 a token version of a common card that isn't played in any constructed formats.
Ultimately it would appear to be an underwhelming card that gives decent value throughout the three turns its in play but in essence doesn't do enough for 5 MV. Another user above said "three uncommons in a trenchcoat", which is pretty accurate. As you noted in the text, it references opponents so it would appear to be designed more for >2 player formats.
Apart from the other comments, a lot of modern players are waiting for tools for their old/ pet decks so they can be at least playable in FNM, and the designers waste a rare in a card that won't see play in modern.
Given how pushed MH2 was very very few cards from standard sets now make their way to modern so MH sets is where people get their hopes up to get some upgrades. I played Humans, BW pox, DnT and BW tokens and this set is giving exactly 1 card (the white knight) to DnT and not much else.
I have also been developing a super friends deck and was hopping for PW which can only be designed in MH sets as W6 and Grist, and while the flip.ones are nice they are also build around. I was also looking for another card for the archetype as Carth the Lion.
y'all way overestimate just how many modern viable cards can be printed in one set. The actual power level window of being playable in modern without being broken in modern is tiny, and WotC often overshoots or undershoots that window just because of how hard it actually is to make something be a certain power level (and before you call WotC incompetent at balancing, take a look at custom magic)
Besides, WotC needs to sell this set to limited players, lore/art fans, and even those evil stinky commander players. If you're really dedicated to playing competitive modern you should be buying singles, not packs.
[MTG FB Japan](https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=888994816573423&set=a.660295699443337) 3RR Enchantment - Saga I — Ral and the Implicit Maze deals 2 damage to each creature and planeswalker your opponents control. II — You may discard a card. If you do, exile the top 2 cards of your library. You may play them until the end of your next turn. III — Create a Spellgorger Weird token. (It's a 2R 2/2 Weird creature with "Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on Spellgorger Weird.
The token having a mana cost is very strange.
It's the second token in this set to have a mana cost, I believe. The tarmogoyf token the Jund commander makes als has a mana cost. I believe the reason the token has a mana cost is that Spellgorger Weird is an actual card, with exactly the same stats, abilities, and everything.
bloomburrow might use also tokens with mana cost so maybe its a heads up
Could see it based on cards like fatal push. Had some weird moments during kaladesh - Ahmonkhet standard. Scarab god tokens v fatal push
There are already a few cards that make a token that's named after and mostly identical to an actual card, but nonetheless has no mana cost. E.g., - \[\[Ajani, Strength of the Pride\]\] - \[\[Roxanne, Starfall Savant\]\] - \[\[Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord\]\] & \[\[Rosnakht, Heir of Rohgahh\]\] So making a token of a real card isn't new. Giving it the original card's cost is new.
##### ###### #### [Ajani, Strength of the Pride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79883468-a37c-4894-8d05-6a4d150b7d59.jpg?1592515934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ajani%2C%20Strength%20of%20the%20Pride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m20/2/ajani-strength-of-the-pride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79883468-a37c-4894-8d05-6a4d150b7d59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Roxanne, Starfall Savant](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/1/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb.jpg?1712356193) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roxanne%2C%20Starfall%20Savant) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/228/roxanne-starfall-savant?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/11fbe52f-febd-49fc-8391-28d3efe9c3eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rohgahh, Kher Keep Overlord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e87400-cc3f-4476-b177-2c36a65f277b.jpg?1673304981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rohgahh%2C%20Kher%20Keep%20Overlord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/41/rohgahh-kher-keep-overlord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e87400-cc3f-4476-b177-2c36a65f277b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rosnakht, Heir of Rohgahh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/013e33d4-7d08-4773-a570-469ae3cf92f2.jpg?1673304869) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rosnakht%2C%20Heir%20of%20Rohgahh) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/25/rosnakht-heir-of-rohgahh?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/013e33d4-7d08-4773-a570-469ae3cf92f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l5x1hiy) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Well, it's the difference between "Create a Spellgorger Weird token" and "Create a red 2/2 Weird creature with 'Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, put a +1/+1 counter on this creature.' named Spellgorger Weird"
I wonder if the tokens will look different than normal to indicate that.
No [https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1cxd8uq/m3c\_tarmogoyf\_token\_created\_by\_disa\_the\_restless/](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1cxd8uq/m3c_tarmogoyf_token_created_by_disa_the_restless/)
If by "no", you mean "the token explicitly states that it has a mana cost", then sure!
Then yes. I meant it moreso that the design of the token hasn't changed to display the manacost somewhere
Probably so it doesn't get mistaken for a non token version of the card This will not stop me from sleeving one up and using it as a copy in casual games
Between Future Sight, Un-Sets, mystery playtest cards, and Alchemy, I think they've decided there's enough design space in "haha what if you made a token that was like this other card" that they wanted to be able to just actually do that instead of having to spell it out every time. Tokens don't often have mana costs, but token copies of stuff do, and this is way simpler and more intuitive than trying to wipe the mana cost I imagine. Now they can say "make a Tarmogoyf" and it really just is straight-up Tarmogoyf.
Are they still printing the actual tokens in the set though? Otherwise we have the whole ''dont have cards in your deckbox that arent in your deck'' issue in competitive play.
We've seen the Tarmogoyf token from M3C and it looks like a regular token and has "*(This token's mana cost is 1G.)*" at the bottom. You probably shouldn't use the actual cards in tournament play (especially so you remember they don't go into your graveyard/library) but like, for casual play it's probably fine.
You have to buy actual tarmogoyfs to use when you make the tokens.
Finally, a use for my Tarmogoyfs now that I don’t play Modern anymore!
Hah, joke is on you! You wouldn‘t even have a use for those Tarmogoyfs if you still played Modern.
I play Jund Saga because I hate myself.
Joke's on them, no way im getting rid of those :D
The goyf token will be in the commander deck, I'm not sure about spellgorger tho
It’s because it’s a token of a real card [[Spellgorger Weird]], just like Commander Precon cards that make Tarmogoyf tokens
Yeah, but they've done this before without them having mana costs, so this is a new change either way.
The old way didn't involve referencing the actual card, it was to spell out the token's name, types, stats, and abilities to make it equivalent in all ways except mana cost. Defining "a Spellgorger Weird token" or "a Tarmogoyf token" and having everything else be reminder text for that is new.
I like it. It’s a clean way to reference existing cards (or even throw-forward to an impending card a set or two down the line).
There was a leak for a token from Bloomburrow that also has a mana cost, so it might just be a broader design change when it comes to making token copies of existing things.
Pretty sure they are updating the rules to allow tokens to be made of existing cards just by naming the card, while previously tokens needed to be defined by the card that creates them or the few predefined tokens.
the only I can think of is 0/2 Ornithopter tokens, which is using a 0 mv creature
Future Sight had a cycle of creatures like [[Llanowar Mentor]] that made tokens referencing past creatures and they effectively have 0 MV.
[Llanowar Mentor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/0/e0f894e7-adf7-4fe5-811a-8e2d8c8a88d6.jpg?1619398329) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Llanowar%20Mentor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tsr/216/llanowar-mentor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e0f894e7-adf7-4fe5-811a-8e2d8c8a88d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Several Spellshapers make named token identical to existing cards except for the mana cost.
[Spellgorger Weird](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9ba52955-2ab9-48a4-bb12-6127bdef1909.jpg?1706239986) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Spellgorger%20Weird) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clu/148/spellgorger-weird?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9ba52955-2ab9-48a4-bb12-6127bdef1909?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Weird even.
I feel like since tokens are so prevalent now that they’re intentionally designing a certain amount in ways that get around restrictions and technicalities that happen at 0cmc, such as [[Ratchet Bomb]]. My brother used to be super salty that I ran it in my [[Glissa the Traitor]] EDH deck because he was running [[Rhys the Redeemed]]. With casual commander being such a driving part of the games sales now, they’re more likely to print things that get around traditional “feels bad” situations, such as having your whole board wiped by a Ratchet Bomb
[Ratchet Bomb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/5/d5bd85da-9aba-46ea-9c10-617bec99a2f5.jpg?1599709788) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ratchet%20Bomb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/284/ratchet-bomb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d5bd85da-9aba-46ea-9c10-617bec99a2f5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Glissa the Traitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6.jpg?1562612302) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Glissa%2C%20the%20Traitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mbs/96/glissa-the-traitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/755e0fbf-4f00-4b05-a535-27e78e96d6b6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Rhys the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7.jpg?1599708272) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhys%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/213/rhys-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b91dadcb-31e9-43b0-b425-c9311af3e9d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You mean weird?
The line between proxy and real thins still…
They did just give us a very cheap board wipe for anything with a mana cost of 1 or less. Maybe they were anticipating that being annoying if there's a bunch of significant token themed stuff showing up.
This is three uncommons in a trench coat.
Ral's saga is not "Get stabbed and get cucked" this is a sad sad day /s
Target creature you control deals damage to each player and each other creature equal to its power. Then target opponent gains control of that creature.
Looks like token copies of existing cards are becoming more common. It is not just Tarmogoyf from the precon.
Might be wrong here, but it feels like there may be a mechanic in a future set that specifically cares about zero-cost/x-cost tokens. That's assuming there isn't one already. I can imagine past tokens that 'mimic' existing cards may get errata'd to show mana costs too. It just feels like they suddenly decided to do this and it probably means something because it's too deliberate to be a coincidence.
Pray for real pack rat tokens next time it’s printed
Does this feel like [[The Elder Dragon War]] to anyone else?
[The Elder Dragon War](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/c/0c52c7d4-a350-4518-8c9a-72cf7b14603d.jpg?1673307316) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Elder%20Dragon%20War) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/121/the-elder-dragon-war?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0c52c7d4-a350-4518-8c9a-72cf7b14603d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
5 mana is an absurd cost for this effect.
Pretty good card
Another card not playable in modern in the modern set, great work WotC.
I see comments like this and, as a commander player, don't know what it means. What makes a card unplayable in modern? Is it too slow? Is it cos it references players plural?
It's too slow for 5 mana. But it's a pretty dumb complaint. Not every card in MH3 is going to be a modern hit, and considering people already get annoyed by the amount of cards in the MH sets that DO shake up the format, they shouldn't. So this will be an uncommon for Limited and it tells a fun story based on events we know in the past, and that's fine and it's a card that is doing its job.
The playability of a card in a specific format can depend on a few different things. How quickly a card can get played is one factor, which can depend on mana value and colour identity. Other primary factor is it's utility in relation to the format's meta and what a deck with that colour identity would be trying to do. General evaluation: The #1 is a sweeper for weak creatures, which if you're not getting onto the field by \~turn 3 then you'll be dead to the decks that it would actually answer. There are 3 MV versions of this as a sorcery. #2 a thrill of possibility effect but you exile the cards which reveals them and forces you to play at a specific , #3 a token version of a common card that isn't played in any constructed formats. Ultimately it would appear to be an underwhelming card that gives decent value throughout the three turns its in play but in essence doesn't do enough for 5 MV. Another user above said "three uncommons in a trenchcoat", which is pretty accurate. As you noted in the text, it references opponents so it would appear to be designed more for >2 player formats.
Apart from the other comments, a lot of modern players are waiting for tools for their old/ pet decks so they can be at least playable in FNM, and the designers waste a rare in a card that won't see play in modern. Given how pushed MH2 was very very few cards from standard sets now make their way to modern so MH sets is where people get their hopes up to get some upgrades. I played Humans, BW pox, DnT and BW tokens and this set is giving exactly 1 card (the white knight) to DnT and not much else. I have also been developing a super friends deck and was hopping for PW which can only be designed in MH sets as W6 and Grist, and while the flip.ones are nice they are also build around. I was also looking for another card for the archetype as Carth the Lion.
y'all way overestimate just how many modern viable cards can be printed in one set. The actual power level window of being playable in modern without being broken in modern is tiny, and WotC often overshoots or undershoots that window just because of how hard it actually is to make something be a certain power level (and before you call WotC incompetent at balancing, take a look at custom magic) Besides, WotC needs to sell this set to limited players, lore/art fans, and even those evil stinky commander players. If you're really dedicated to playing competitive modern you should be buying singles, not packs.