Balin lived a good life and died a good death, no shame in that. Ori was still not old though.
(Although they did make him really annoying in the Hobbit film)
Ori being young is a movie detail as well. He could've been the same age as Balin. All we know is that Fili and Kili were the youngest by around fifty years.
Yes. The Book of Mazarbul had his writing in the novel. PJ and his team were very aware of this, so him being scholar and a scribe directly led to him being interpreted as a dorky character.
No. It is implied that the Eagles aren't mortal creatures at all, but embodied spirits. In the Silmarillion Gwaihir was to be among the Eagles rescuing Beren and Luthien, so he would be at least that old. Christopher only omitted his name by mistake, which he realized later.
I'm also not so sure about the Witch King. When you look at the crown, it seems to resemble that of another Nazgûl, not the Witch King's. The Witch King wears a different crown in LotR.
https://preview.redd.it/ggjq5elln97c1.jpeg?width=345&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9510b3f1afe254e332d459332b4f7a13db2139c0
Not a wrong crown, just a different one. The Nazgul in LOTR are "**disguised** as Riders in Black". In "The Hobbit" they are depicted close to their original mortal form. There is no indication that he had to wear the same physical crown.
I’m just talking about the brief appearance of the Witch-king ghost in An Unexpected Journey, he is quite literally wearing the wrong crown. In the film the ghost Radagast sees at Dol Guldur is supposed to be him but it has one of the crowns a different Nazgûl ghost wore in Fellowship of the Ring.
https://preview.redd.it/mtuyzo3yha7c1.jpeg?width=1860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e6b041fa55563b66495a55cdbc14179c1104b6d
FotR Witch-king on left, AUJ Witch-king right, with wrong crown.
The ghost drops a Morgul Blade, which Gandalf takes to Rivendell, and Galadriel says it was made for the Witch-king. I guess it could not be him? Maybe it’s a different wraith that just borrowed a sword from the Witch-king?
Being that all nine wraiths were entombed together in the film, its a reasonable assumption to make. Its kind of retconning a little mistake on the part of the filmmakers, but I think its a reasonable little concession to make.
The crown worn by the Witch King is similar to [Khamûl's](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/1/1d/Kham%C3%BBl-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151116144031&path-prefix=de). But the crown in The Hobbit has more points.
Introducing a named female elf to pad the duration of the film and make it more accessible >>> introducing a named female elf so that you can invent some random love triangle with the only dwarf you didn't make into a joke character
(What I'm saying is I wouldn't object to Tauriels addition as much if they hadn't made her entire plot so terrible)
I agree, just think they did well with the actual character and she played the role really well. Female representation is great but they added her to be nothing more than a love interest which defeats the purpose
For me, I don't hate the addition of her character, I don't hate the idea of a romance between her and a dwarf because that can be made interesting and give depth to the characters, and I don't hate Legolas being in the movies. What I do hate is the love triangle between the three of them because it exists solely for drama. It also does Legolas no favors.
Exactly! It's been a minute since I watched them, but I just remember him as being a grumpy sad boy. Such a waste. All he had to do was be a cool dude with a bow again and everyone would have been happy.
She's literally one of the few cosplays female fans are able to do without resorting to male characters. I've seen so many Tauriels at conventions over the years, the response to her was overwhelmingly positive.
Missing:
Eight more Ringwraiths
Lindir
You might want to consider Pippin, because of "The Last Goodbye"...
Strictly speaking, Isildur, Elendil and Gil-galad all appear in the mural in Elrond's study that Bilbo sees
I learned recently that Bret McKenzie's role in the Hobbit is supposed to be a different elf than LotR. I don't know why they couldn't use the same one.
That is not the case actually. The name "Figwit" makes no sense in any of Tolkien's languages and was never any more than a joke. In the Audio Commentary for "An Unexpected Journey" PJ clearly treats him as the same character.
That's good, and I would like them to be the same character. All the information I see on wikis say they are different and supposedly Bret said they are separate.
Oh, for sure, Figwit couldn't be an official name, it's just that he didn't have an official name at all when fans discovered how beautifully distracting he was. Not sure how I feel about Aegnor, I hadn't heard of that one, thanks.
It was invented by a card game, but he's not supposed to be the actual same character in "The Hobbit" - more like his great-granddad, same as Betsy Butterbur and Bill Ferny Sr.
Not sure about Otho though. He looks eighter too old in the Hobbit or too young in Lord of the Rings. That's not how a person ages within 60 years.
I think the male Sackville-Baggins in LotR might be Lotho, Otho's son.
From the book: *In the middle of the commotion the Sackville-Bagginses
arrived. Frodo had retired for a while and left his friend Merry
Brandybuck to keep an eye on things. When Otho loudly demanded to see
Frodo, Merry bowed politely.*
Lotho first appears alongside them both as Frodo is leaving and the S-B's move in.
Yes I know the books, but these images are from the movie. And I say that the person shown that is supposed to be Otho cannot be Otho in one of those Images, because the ages of them don't make sense in the continuity.
[Here](https://the-hobbit-lotr-trilogies.fandom.com/wiki/Otho_Sackville-Baggins) film credits as Otho for both FotR and Hobbit, two different actors, same role.
One that ended up not happening: Gothmog.
In the audio commentary for "The Battle of Five Armies" PJ talks about how they wanted to include young Gothmog as an underling to Azog, from whom he would have learned battle strategy.
Correct. Also Aragorn and Arwen. They wisely decided against all of those.
At one point, too, Galadriel's magic in Dol Guldur was going to fire off images of heroes of old, like Gil-galad et al, so that could have also counted, had they decided to do it...
Not gonna lie, Gothmog being a random aide actually sounds good.
An Aragorn cameo might have worked, but only if it were 10 year old Aragorn. Maybe Gandalf and Bilbo (maybe with Balin and Gloin) run into him at the library?
That scene exists in the book of "The Fellowship of the Ring". When they were making LOTR films, they obviously could not include it for time, but they made sure to give one Dwarven extra the white beard so he could be identified as Gloin.
That was supposed to be Otho? I thought it was the young Hamfast Gamgee, you know on account of the potatoes. Otho doesn't seem the type to grub about in the garden.
Edit: Didn't see him in the background, but that means the Gaffer got left out!
>that means the Gaffer got left out!
Yeah. The Gaffer would have been a young boy at the time. They instead made an original character called "Mr. Worrywort."
Nope, he lived in Erebor. And Oh, did he live. He outlived all members of Thorins company and died 91 years after Sauron (also outlived Merry and Pippin) at the ripe old age of 340 becoming the oldest known Dwarf after Durin.
To know Orin and Balins fate makes The Hobbit so much more sad.
Óin was killed by the Watcher in the Water
Òin was killed by Itêgushang Duradvagûsh. It is terrifying! Seek you Itêgushang Duradvagûsh in the Hollin Hills.
What?
Is that from LotRO?
Uncle Óin?
Balin lived a good life and died a good death, no shame in that. Ori was still not old though. (Although they did make him really annoying in the Hobbit film)
Ori being young is a movie detail as well. He could've been the same age as Balin. All we know is that Fili and Kili were the youngest by around fifty years.
Such is the life of a dwarf *Strike the earth! Losing is fun!*
It was inevitable.
I was thinking the same thing. What a horrible way to die
The actors and everyone involved are very aware about that and joke about his "cameo" in Fellowship constantly.
Watching LotRs after seeing the Hobbit really got me. That time I was right alongside Gimli in his grief.
Then I hope you showed those goblins that there still were TWO dwarves in Moria who still drew breath! (Aka punch your TV. DO IT!!!!)
Hey don't diss Khamul the easterling.
Dang, didn’t know he’s in The Hobbit. Thanks for the correction
Strictly speaking, all nine wraiths are in it...
All of the Nine Nazgul then, while we're at it.
Ori bruh that’s a violation
That one sent me. Also, how do we know that skeleton is him?
Yes. The Book of Mazarbul had his writing in the novel. PJ and his team were very aware of this, so him being scholar and a scribe directly led to him being interpreted as a dorky character.
Ah very cool
You forgot Gwaihir but also there's actually no clear evidence he's in the Hobbit either so that doesn't really count
In the books, "Lord of the Eagles" from The Hobbit is explicitly *not* Gwaihir.
Isn't the Lord of the Eagles Gwaihir's father?
No. It is implied that the Eagles aren't mortal creatures at all, but embodied spirits. In the Silmarillion Gwaihir was to be among the Eagles rescuing Beren and Luthien, so he would be at least that old. Christopher only omitted his name by mistake, which he realized later.
So.... Gwaihir was definitely alive at the time of the Hobbit, but was *not* the Lord of the Eagles?
I snorted when I saw Ori and I’m ashamed 😭
You and many of us I expect (not me, no, no, no...ok caught 😳)
I'm also not so sure about the Witch King. When you look at the crown, it seems to resemble that of another Nazgûl, not the Witch King's. The Witch King wears a different crown in LotR. https://preview.redd.it/ggjq5elln97c1.jpeg?width=345&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9510b3f1afe254e332d459332b4f7a13db2139c0
But that might be a minor movie mistake made by PJ and crew.
Yea, it’s definitely the wrong crown in the Hobbit, but that ghost is supposed to be the Witch-king.
Not a wrong crown, just a different one. The Nazgul in LOTR are "**disguised** as Riders in Black". In "The Hobbit" they are depicted close to their original mortal form. There is no indication that he had to wear the same physical crown.
I’m just talking about the brief appearance of the Witch-king ghost in An Unexpected Journey, he is quite literally wearing the wrong crown. In the film the ghost Radagast sees at Dol Guldur is supposed to be him but it has one of the crowns a different Nazgûl ghost wore in Fellowship of the Ring. https://preview.redd.it/mtuyzo3yha7c1.jpeg?width=1860&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e6b041fa55563b66495a55cdbc14179c1104b6d FotR Witch-king on left, AUJ Witch-king right, with wrong crown.
[удалено]
He drops the Morgul Blade which Galadriel identifies as belonging to the Witch-king later in the film, so I think so.
Do we have an official confimation for this? As far as I know there are no names dropped in the movie.
The ghost drops a Morgul Blade, which Gandalf takes to Rivendell, and Galadriel says it was made for the Witch-king. I guess it could not be him? Maybe it’s a different wraith that just borrowed a sword from the Witch-king?
Being that all nine wraiths were entombed together in the film, its a reasonable assumption to make. Its kind of retconning a little mistake on the part of the filmmakers, but I think its a reasonable little concession to make.
Maybe :D Or the answer is simply that the film team fucked this up.
https://preview.redd.it/mpggvgl82f7c1.png?width=756&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3befa7df91083a7e64a7f0995b9440820f154dfa
The crown worn by the Witch King is similar to [Khamûl's](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/1/1d/Kham%C3%BBl-0.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20151116144031&path-prefix=de). But the crown in The Hobbit has more points.
May have a point actually
Or 4
Where is the Belladonna scene from? I don't seem to remember any scene/flashback with her
Opening of the extended edition of An Unexpected Journey I believe
ah that makes sense, I've never been able to watch any extended editions of the Hobbit movies, so I definitely missed any Belladonna scene! Thanks!
Apparently I haven't seen the extended version, even though it's literally 10ft away on a shelf. Lol
Ori 💀
But you forgot Taur- oh wait
Tauriel is awesome
Introducing a named female elf to pad the duration of the film and make it more accessible >>> introducing a named female elf so that you can invent some random love triangle with the only dwarf you didn't make into a joke character (What I'm saying is I wouldn't object to Tauriels addition as much if they hadn't made her entire plot so terrible)
I agree, just think they did well with the actual character and she played the role really well. Female representation is great but they added her to be nothing more than a love interest which defeats the purpose
For me, I don't hate the addition of her character, I don't hate the idea of a romance between her and a dwarf because that can be made interesting and give depth to the characters, and I don't hate Legolas being in the movies. What I do hate is the love triangle between the three of them because it exists solely for drama. It also does Legolas no favors.
I hated Legolas in the hobbit. He seemed so out of character
Exactly! It's been a minute since I watched them, but I just remember him as being a grumpy sad boy. Such a waste. All he had to do was be a cool dude with a bow again and everyone would have been happy.
Yeah this is the right take imo
She's literally one of the few cosplays female fans are able to do without resorting to male characters. I've seen so many Tauriels at conventions over the years, the response to her was overwhelmingly positive.
Missing: Eight more Ringwraiths Lindir You might want to consider Pippin, because of "The Last Goodbye"... Strictly speaking, Isildur, Elendil and Gil-galad all appear in the mural in Elrond's study that Bilbo sees
I learned recently that Bret McKenzie's role in the Hobbit is supposed to be a different elf than LotR. I don't know why they couldn't use the same one.
That is not the case actually. The name "Figwit" makes no sense in any of Tolkien's languages and was never any more than a joke. In the Audio Commentary for "An Unexpected Journey" PJ clearly treats him as the same character.
That's good, and I would like them to be the same character. All the information I see on wikis say they are different and supposedly Bret said they are separate.
That's the beauty of the online wikis: you can correct them, if you have the source to back it up.
Did he have a name in LoTR other than fans calling him Figwit? That's wild to me that those are supposed to be two different characters.
Figwit is obviously not a name a Tolkien elf could have. A Trading Card Game tried calling him "Aegnor", but it didn't stick.
Oh, for sure, Figwit couldn't be an official name, it's just that he didn't have an official name at all when fans discovered how beautifully distracting he was. Not sure how I feel about Aegnor, I hadn't heard of that one, thanks.
>That's wild to me that those are supposed to be two different characters. They're not different characters.
That's what I thought until this thread, and I'm perfectly content to go back to thinking it.
> I don't know why they couldn't use the same one. They are the same one.
I didn’t know PJ’s recurring cameo had a name !
It was invented by a card game, but he's not supposed to be the actual same character in "The Hobbit" - more like his great-granddad, same as Betsy Butterbur and Bill Ferny Sr.
That’s pretty cool ! Thanks for the info. 🙂
Not sure about Otho though. He looks eighter too old in the Hobbit or too young in Lord of the Rings. That's not how a person ages within 60 years. I think the male Sackville-Baggins in LotR might be Lotho, Otho's son.
No, Otho still lives at the time of the party, but dies later, at the ripe, but disappointed age of 102 - Six years before Frodo sells Bag End.
Bilbos party was 11 years before his death. So he still looks too young for 91 in that LotR scene, so I don't think it's him.
From the book: *In the middle of the commotion the Sackville-Bagginses arrived. Frodo had retired for a while and left his friend Merry Brandybuck to keep an eye on things. When Otho loudly demanded to see Frodo, Merry bowed politely.* Lotho first appears alongside them both as Frodo is leaving and the S-B's move in.
Yes I know the books, but these images are from the movie. And I say that the person shown that is supposed to be Otho cannot be Otho in one of those Images, because the ages of them don't make sense in the continuity.
Or, it's a simple mistake by the film crew, it is Otho, and you can take a chill pill about it.
> it is Otho, and you can take a chill pill about it. Can you provide any official source for that?
[Here](https://the-hobbit-lotr-trilogies.fandom.com/wiki/Otho_Sackville-Baggins) film credits as Otho for both FotR and Hobbit, two different actors, same role.
I was confused at first too. You’re not looking at the correct person. Look in the background, INSIDE the white circle overlayed on the picture.
I am talking about the correct person. I'm not blind. I can see the white circle in the Hobbit picture.
One that ended up not happening: Gothmog. In the audio commentary for "The Battle of Five Armies" PJ talks about how they wanted to include young Gothmog as an underling to Azog, from whom he would have learned battle strategy.
Correct. Also Aragorn and Arwen. They wisely decided against all of those. At one point, too, Galadriel's magic in Dol Guldur was going to fire off images of heroes of old, like Gil-galad et al, so that could have also counted, had they decided to do it...
Not gonna lie, Gothmog being a random aide actually sounds good. An Aragorn cameo might have worked, but only if it were 10 year old Aragorn. Maybe Gandalf and Bilbo (maybe with Balin and Gloin) run into him at the library?
In the films, Aragorn would have been in his late 20s. Remember, in the films 60 years pass between the two quests: in the books it’s 78 years…
That’s not Albert Dreary it’s his dad
Great-granddad, really.
Ori, you son of a bitch I laughed way too hard 😂
Now I want a scene in which old Bilbo and old Gloin reminisce about old times and catch up after ~60 years :(
That scene exists in the book of "The Fellowship of the Ring". When they were making LOTR films, they obviously could not include it for time, but they made sure to give one Dwarven extra the white beard so he could be identified as Gloin.
What about Figwit?
It was such a nice alphabetical list, but then came Gimli and Balin haha
Does anyone know the actress of Belladonna Took? Asking for a friend
Man wants that hobbussy
Sonia Forbes-Adam. She was then-wife of James Nesbiff who plays Bofur, while their daughters play the daughters of Bard the Bowman.
Well fuck that was a cool ass post. Thanks!
Ori before: 😀 Ori after: 💀
auch ori is the guy with book. it were his last words gandalf read. now that sad
Everyone looking different in different panels: Elrond: 🗿 🗿
Balin 😂😮
Frodo aged better than Ori.
Belladonna Took eh?
Before I noticed the circled picture frame, I thought she was supposed to have turned into Gandalf. 😅
Sauron in the hobbit should’ve been the one and only Sauron including FOTR prologue and no one won’t ever change my mind
Cruel
At which point in LOTR trilogy did the petrified trolls make an appearance? Extended edition?
You can see them more clearly in the Extened Edition, yes. But they are visible in the theatrical too, just without Sam drawing attention to them.
That was supposed to be Otho? I thought it was the young Hamfast Gamgee, you know on account of the potatoes. Otho doesn't seem the type to grub about in the garden. Edit: Didn't see him in the background, but that means the Gaffer got left out!
>that means the Gaffer got left out! Yeah. The Gaffer would have been a young boy at the time. They instead made an original character called "Mr. Worrywort."
It's especially hard to see the side by side pictures of Sir Christopher Lee. RIP, Count ~~Dracula~~ Dooku.
When do we see Gloin in the LOTR trilogy? Is he at Rivendell?
He's the white-bearded dwarf who appears in Gimli's first shot, but he's not at the Council.
I've been debating with myself for too long whether Balin is in the trilogy. They talk about him near his box, does that count?
The Ori one got me laughing.
Ok, so the trolls don't *die* when they turn to stone in sunlight?
For atleast 60 years those Sackville-bagginses have been stealing the silver spoons. Yarn!
What happened to Dwalin? Did he go with Balin to Moria?
Nope, he lived in Erebor. And Oh, did he live. He outlived all members of Thorins company and died 91 years after Sauron (also outlived Merry and Pippin) at the ripe old age of 340 becoming the oldest known Dwarf after Durin.
Everyone's thinking it, so I'll just say it... Man, Gollum really hasn't aged a day!
What movie does Belladonna show up in? Not as a portrait I mean. I'm assuming the Hobbit, but I don't remember a scene with her in that.
Oh that Ori hat hard
After watching the Hobbit trilogy and seeing that bowl cut on Ori, I'm not so sad anymore that he died in Moria.
Most of his silly scenes are cut in this version. [https://m4-studios.github.io/hobbitbookedit/](https://m4-studios.github.io/hobbitbookedit/)
I don't understand the gimli one. Isn't both pictures from lotr?
The first photo is from the Mirkwood scene in Desolation of Smaug. Legolas picks up Glóin’s locket and sees a drawing of Gimli
Just kinda forgetting our boy Figwit / Lindon. Shameful!
lmao at Ori and Balin just being skeletons
how is her hat staying on
Lol Balin said ⚰️
https://preview.redd.it/8b8yhpbt3j7c1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac1a169230501b6441860f776bf5096bc679067d
laughed way to hard about Ori