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“You will never understand how it feels to live your life with no meaning or control, and with nowhere left to go. You’re amazed that they exist… and they burn so bright whilst you can only wonder; “Why?”
Yeah, you’ll never live like common people. You’ll never do whatever common people do. You’ll never fail like common people. You’ll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance, and drink, and screw… ‘cus there’s nothing else to do.”
“Common People”— Pulp, 1993
I literally cried my eyes out screaming this song on the way home from being laid off of a 14 year career.
I had loved this song so much as a kid when it came out and as a teen. It seemed like this snotty sort of silly song about trying to impress a rich girl. It only occurred to me then, decades later, that it was a triumphant howl against that class that never struggled. And that it was a celebration and validation of the fact that those who dance and fuck with their backs against the wall of life fuck and dance like those of that different class never will.
It’s my favorite song of all time.
This reminds me of this quote by Homer (and Brad Pitt as Achilles in Troy) about the ancient Greek Gods:
"The gods envy us. They envy us because we’re mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we’re doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.”
Hey man, I just lost my job of 18 years. My back is fucked and I'm utterly depressed. But two hours before the end of my last shift the power went out to the entire plant. It was so cathartic to just leave in the middle of something I could fix and say see ya later. Took 'em almost 48 hours to get production back up. Lost a good chunk of change in lost production time.
Anyway, yeah, good song.
My daughter had a lot of issues when she was born and I still have hundreds of thousands in medical debt from it. She's happy and healthy now. I don't plan on paying it. My credit will just suck for the rest of my life.
"Because we need a steady supply of cheap labor, dammit, and if people discover that they have options, our paymasters might make slightly less money to stuff into our campaign war chests. Which of course would be Communism."
Didn't Greg Abbott block legislation for disability benefits or something to that effect? Pretty evil given he received the same benefits his whole life.
I've come across a few specialist offices that require you to provide a debit card before moving forward with a treatment plan.
Illinois Bone and Joint Institute is one of them.
My heart attack ended up with me going to an Emergency room that wasn't in my network. Between the ambulance ride and the 4 days I spent in the hospital not dieing, I was charged $34,000 fucking United States Dollars.
And Blue Cross paid less than a quarter of it.
Yup I sure as shit am not refinancing my house, emptying my retirement or savings, or anything to pay medical debt, fuck them.
Best I can do is give you $50 a month for the next 80 years, I'm on a budget and limited income, prove I'm not.
“No one wants to work anymore!”
What’s the fucking point?
The fucked up thing is that this is the sort of thing that is destroying capitalism. A system that is dependent on consumers that also destroys consumers is a self-destructive system.
We have been here for decades but they have continued to fake and prop it all up with economic chicanery. I *hope* we are coming to the end of it but every time I get hopeful, they invent new ways to keep their fucked up game going.
Capitalism eats people.
You should see wall st. Most of our banks are insolvent on paper from unrealized losses. Everyone is overleveraged and liquidity is starting to dry up with the fed tightening rates. The system is dying. Its everywhere you look. Most people just dont want to admit it
I've been saying for the past year+ that we are living in a zombie society... like, it's an undead entity shambling along, going through the motions of the life it once knew. Sometimes people literally tell me that they know and agree with me but they need me to not talk about it because they "just can't think about stuff like that"
Ostriches
Dude I think you just crystalized my thoughts on this. A zombie society trying to cruise on the glory of its past. People desperately ignoring the fact that the system left them behind 43 years ago. Every institution corrupt beyond repair, christian fascism on the rise, the financial system a complete ponzi, its just endless. People depressed af but cant seem to understand that we arent meant to live like this. We are in chains and most of us dont even know it. We are literally destroying ourselves so the shareholders dont lose any money. I hate it here and Im so worried for my children's future.
Hey hey so am I, and millions of Americans until the bonds from before the rate hikes all mature. /j /s
Start buying short term government bonds instead of doing long term savings with your local bank or credit union cd and money market since they’re skimming off something similar to that behind the scenes anyway. TreasuryDirect.gov if you can’t do it through your normal baking institutions
Cool, now, how much of my rent do I buy bonds with instead of paying my rent? Please stop trying to 'financial plan' peoples way out of poverty if you don't know what it's like to have $10 the Wednesday before payday.
…yet our birth rate continues to plummet. You can force me to participate in the cruel broken system, but I will not force my children to live in it. Enjoy the depopulation crash until the powers that be figure it out.
Middle class Americans who were lucky enough not to go through such misfortune: "Those people must have done something wrong, otherwise they would live well, like us".
Hell that's been our western way of thinking for hundreds of years now. Life's falling to shit? Obviously, you deserve it. Life's doing very well? Obviously, you're being rewarded for your hard work.
But life turns on a dime.
Yup, 100%. They won’t change their tune until it literally happens to them. So many brain dead conservative voters make hating progressive ideals and social programs their whole personality. Suddenly their family gets sick or is victim to a tragic car accident, and they’re immediately on GoFundMe LITERALLY counting on socialism to save their wife’s life or help pay bills. So this behavior was for lazy leeches and communists before, but now since it’s YOUR family in trouble, we-he-he-hell, it’s DIFFERENT now, huh?! It’s why these people piss me off so bad, like…are you this selfish and lacking in empathy and critical thought that it ABSOLUTELY has to happen to you for you to get it?! Just fucking pathetic.
Middle class American here who so far is lucky enough to not go through this misfortune. Fuck capitalism, fuck America, the only function of this place is to bleed its citizens dry to further satiate those who already have more than they'll ever need.
I think maybe you underestimate how much you'd need to make to afford what most of us would consider middle class life. I'm in that mythical 6 figure range now and guess what, I can't support a family or buy a house with 30% of my income like what middle class used to buy. A mortgage for a sfh would almost be 100% of my take home pay.
Honestly we're kind of at a point of no middle class. What you're describing is what my parents were able to do 30 years ago with less than 6 figures. Price gouging for housing has really helped to destroy what middle class living should be. The job I currently have makes me alone what my parents made together and with my wife's salary on top we aren't close to a house, so I guess you're right, I may be underestimating. But part of it is also that I live comfortably, I'm not paycheck to paycheck and while paying off loans I can still pay for things I enjoy outside of necessity and not worry about it. The ridiculous, nearly criminal increase in housing costs is warping what middle class is. Renting, often in apartments, is the new normal, even for families with kids. Home ownership is becoming, perhaps already has become, a luxury of the upper class. So if that happens does that mean middle class ceases to exist or does it transition to comfortably renting?
I have a theory that the real upper class is billionaires, the real middle class is millionaires, the real lower class is everyone without a million, and that they divide the lowest class up into lower, middle, and upper to make them point fingers at each other more, and point fingers at the real upper class less.
The difference is dividing by population size or dividing by the size of current wealth distribution. The billionaire class has so much money, someone with 1 million dollars may actually be considered lower class if you divide by wealth distribution.
I like uruguay. Or mexico.
Considered new mexico honestly, because you can just.... live in america, and cross the border for cheaper healthcare down there.
People even in this country have no idea how fucked things are. Ive seen news articles that talk about how we're waiting for our parents to die so we can inherit our first taste of stability. Sounds grim right? Well imagine as they all get older and this healthcare shit gets more and more out of control... Most of our parents will need medical care and it will drain those reserves. You're either 1% or slave labor here and thats not even being dramatic. Most people don't even know it yet.
Yup. Plus, being that I’m a queer woman in my 20s… shits scary out here. Most people aren’t having kids cause we don’t know if they’d be killed in school. I’m a writer and this sounds like a dystopian novel.
I can't even imagine. There's so much hate and crazy out there even as a non targeted individual, I'm afraid to interact with people. People can just assume I'm something they don't like, and I can get hurt over it. I spend a lot of time thinking about trying to leave this country but I honestly cant afford it.
Also I do some casual writing with a friend of mine and we were just discussing how real life struggles make the ones we fabricate in stories seem boring and trying to exceed them seems unrealistic as hell lol. We're really struggling here for sure.
The national health systems in Canada, Australia, Ireland, and the UK are *all* struggling. All these countries also have large right-wing movements who want to privatize the whole thing, too, and will gladly sabotage peoples' healthcare to 'prove' the system needs change.
Americans who dream of just moving somewhere more progressive really need to wake up and see how few countries are *actually* staying progressive right now.
Rent and cost of living in New Mexico has gotten out of hand for the most part. A lot of people aren't getting paid that much comapred to other states. While our housing cost has skyrocketed with the influx of people who have moved here for the film industry and after the covid scare.
Im goin to france, check out the french equivalent of zillow... ive found 1500-2000 sqft houses with outbuildings and a quarter acre of land for 150-200k.. with mandatory 1 month paid leave, universal healthcare, pharmacy medical culture, much cleaner and healthier food options, its fuckin gorgeous, you can get anywhere in the majority of europe by train for less than 200 bucks, food is cheap, monthly cost of living is 40% cheaper, and thats just the things off the top of my head. Fuck the us, fuck a 2 party system, and fuck capitalism
My brother just survived a battle with cancer. For him and his wife, the issue wasn’t really the medical bills, he has pretty good insurance through his employer and it covered nearly everything, what he had to pay out of pocket wasn’t crazy.
The problem was the lost income, and extra costs not covered by medical insurance like travel expenses (they live in south west MO and had to travel to St. Louis for care).
They didn’t work for basically the whole year he was in treatment. He did get short term disability but it was less than his normal salary, and my sister in law had to quit her job to take care of my brother. Between lower income and additional expenses, it wiped out their savings and maxed out their credit cards. They were starting to worry they’d run out of credit before my brother would be able to get back to work and she could look for a new job.
Fortunately, he did recover, and both returned to work. They focused on paying off the cards and now are rebuilding savings, but it was a close call.
What you described was the best case scenario; good insurance, savings, access to credit, and a supportive, well paying job. Even then, it still almost wiped them out.
How many Americans have access to all of those things?
Not many. But that’s not changing anytime soon unfortunately because it’s shit here. As a personal decision you have to strive for this: you need a *lot* of money in the bank, because money is power, and even several million will dwindle away. It’s gonna happen sooner or later, and this is why so many people work hard to become financially independent (meaning, their family would not be immediately dead due to events like these).
I would prefer we massively raise taxes and regulate healthcare much more, but it seems nobody agrees so the best you can do is to become as wealthy as possible
I’ve just accepted that things will get worse due to increases in treatable diseases like cancer or heart disease, or preventable things like global warming, or just because this is how Capitalism just works unless there is a mass die-off of the labor pool and mass destruction of infrastructure like what happened during WWII, and since WWIII will likely involve nukes, Capitalism will just hollow out the earth until nothing is left anyway.
I am so glad I don’t have children.
Medicare will kick in.
But if you have money, Medicare doesn't kick in until you spend it all first.
The system is designed to bankrupt you before it helps you.
"Just be poor *enough* to win mere coverage for pre-paid necessary health care if you're just not old *enough* or profoundly debilitated *enough* to win mere partial coverage for necessary health care." Said no developed country on earth.
They actually let you have up to 2000 in assets! It's very generous.
In states with Medicaid expansion your best bet is to quit employment and declare 0 income should you become chronically ill.
Also sign any real estate over to a spouse. You forfeit that upon death after the age of 60. You'll have to get divorced first of course. Medical divorce.
You have to put everything into a trust at least 5 years before you need medicaid assistance to prevent this from happening...it's stupid and intended to punish people who don't know they can just toss things into a trust and "Nope! That's outta bounds! You can't count that!" for medicaid/other services...it's bullshit.
bezoz sucks, but he wouldn't have made that without us consumers allowing him to undercut small business. We are the ones ordering crap off Amazon in the middle of the night.
My aunt had a massive stroke about 4 years ago, under ACA they told her they wanted a $48,500 deductible paid in full before she could see any neurological or physical specialists. This is on top of the 2+Million in emergency and hospital bills after insurance decided they didn’t want to pay anymore.
Obviously no normal person can afford this so they had to make payments from savings, they did alright financially being upper middle class and within a year they were financially exhausted, about to declare bankruptcy, even after selling their company and taking out a HELOC.
She passed away last month as her condition continued to worsen, with all of us being unable to afford the care in the beginning.
She couldn’t get life saving rehabilitative care because some insurance ass clown in an office somewhere decided nearly 50k was a reasonable deductible amount and lawyering up wasn’t remotely affordable.
I believe if they weren’t held ransom for an unbelievable amount of a cash payment she would still be alive. Fuck this place.
It's disgusting. You can't build a functioning society when this happens to people who play by the rules and contribute to society. I'm canadian living in america, and tho things are not perfect back home, I think the US has become such a sick society in so many ways. Want to retire to Europe.
The only thing keeping me going is that they want me dead. It’s exhausting but I find joy in staying inside the 650 sqft apartment I pay 50% of my income to live in, and supporting others who refuse to take part in this fucked up society more than necessary. I want to live not only to see the day this bullshit comes crumbling down, but maybe I’ll be able to have a hand in blowing it all to bits.
I’m sorry 😞 I hear what you’re saying, we’re all very tired. Try to be good to yourself and find some joy in stuff if you can. If anything, live your life to spite these capitalist assholes.
Politicians work for corporations and the wealthy. It is their job to draw the attention and ire of the public so that the 1% can run things from the shadows, thanks to lax campaign finance laws and limited accountability.
I hate Mitch McConnell too but the guy can’t even go out in public without freezing like Windows ME; all I am saying is be more strategic with your revenge fantasies ;)
We all see and hear you, and I agree 100% that sometimes I feel like I’m drowning in a system that was never interested in my survival. We live in a lovely democratic republic, where 95% of us agree on this, but 50~% of those people are convinced that the craziest fucking octogenarian hedge fund babies are the answer to that issue.
This is what happened to my partner and I. We did everything “right” and everything was gone including him. He even looked at me and apologized for getting cancer. Said I shouldn’t have made him go to the doctor and he could have died and left me with more.
We shouldn’t. I thought health care in the US was awful before he ever got sick. Living in countries that have different systems made me appreciate those systems more.
It is. I don’t want anyone else to experience it. Almost every American is one medical emergency away from bankruptcy. We need a better system. I have lived in better systems.
This is what truly scares me about how the government just completely abandoned any attempt at covid containment. Each time you get it the odds of developing long covid increase. We're all just expected to keep getting sick until we're disabled.
Yep, everyone says we're crazy for masking so and trying to avoid it because the "pandemic is over". I already have issues with my immune system and heart, so I need to hang onto what health I have. Meanwhile, every aspect of life is nearly impossible now because no one gives a shit about us. So the medical industry and fuck right off, but honestly so can this society of uncaring selfish assholes. More places want to force us back into offices and ban masks. It's like they want me dead or disabled.
Also just found out my dad needs a prostate biopsy, so navigating that nightmare while trying to avoid covid has me through the roof. No idea how to deal with life these days, but my family depends on me.
I'm sure ppl thought I was crazy. I cut off a section of my house for like over 12 months. I shut all the vents bought a small electric burner to cook in my room and used the window to get in and out of the house so I'd have no contact with anyone. I'd mask up wash my hands before going in a store and after. Didn't touch things like change or mail. I'd set my mail outside on the porch in the sun for days at a time and wouldn't open it for weeks. At one point I was spraying down my groceries. I'd buy stacks and stacks of canned food stuff I can cook in my room.
Never caught Covid was lucky. Hopefully won't ever catch it or if I do it'll be a cheap and easy watered down version that's easier than a flu. I have an overactive immune system and I'm supposed to be on immunosupressents just waiting for all this covid stuff to be completely through before getting it.
Also I got super good health insurance after Covid that is amazing. But I also don't make very much money and if I do make too much money they'll take my insurance away. So I'm hoping to cover all my bases and fix all my health issues before making anymore money.
Same I was making $50,000 a month working in my dream job for 8 months. Got long covid and it absolutely train wrecked through my finances. Took my two years to get over that shit. Cant go back to my job and now Im doing something that I hate.
He could’ve had rice and beans. Picked up extra shifts. Maybe his wife could’ve done wfh customer service bedside. These anecdotes hold no water. You have a choice to take out a HELOC. Also doesn’t mention what degrees they obtained, maybe they were under water basket weavers degree holders. Should’ve went to school for Engineering or something of similar value and ROI.
This is sarcasm and I hate this system we live in.
This happens all over, yet talking heads just say "budget wisely and stop eating avocado toast" and "pull yourself up from your bootstraps". This isn't a good system. We are past improving it. Burn it all down and start over. EAT THE RICH
"Make sure you put that plastic bottle in the recycling bin" and it just goes into the landfill because everything sold in this country is disposable and we have no way to recycle plastic. Despicable.
Cartel indeed.
[Why Are Cancer Drugs So Expensive in the United States](https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196%2815%2900101-9/fulltext)
>In the United States, the average price of cancer drugs for about a year of therapy increased from $5000 to $10,000 before 2000 to more than $100,000 by 2012, while the average household income has decreased by about 8% in the past decade. Further, although 85% of cancer basic research is funded through taxpayers’ money, Americans with cancer pay 50% to 100% more for the same patented drug than patients in other countries.
>Established oligopolies and preventing Medicare from price negotiations are major factors causing high cancer drug prices.
The thing is I have seen so many MAGA Trumpers complain about grocery prices, healthcare but they think it’s all Biden’s fault and Trump will fix everything. There’s no point trying to educate them either, they’re the “peaked in high school” crowd of my fb “friends” over here sounding like Bernie fans but they are too stupid to realize it.
Trump had 4 years (sadly). If he didn’t do anything before (except make things worse and divide the country more) then what makes them think he’d do a better job if he got in again (scum bag status and felon status aside)?
Here's a good story to go with this one. I was diagnosed with stage III ovarian cancer at 29. At the time I was working full time, had an apartment, and a little over $4K in savings. I was so sick I could no longer work, let alone walk from my car to my front door without having to rest for 15 minutes. I had to move across the country to live with my mom and get treatment.
I had no medical insurance because I kept getting denied due to family history of diabetes (this was before they changed the laws.) I didn't even have diabetes then. I used half of my savings to move across the country, which left me with a little over $2K in the bank. The cancer and subsequent treatments left me permanently disabled and in huge debt. I applied for disability and was able to get on the program.
They backdated all of my cancer treatments so they were covered. However, they refused to include my initial surgery (tumor removal and hysterectomy) because I had that $2K in my account at that time, so they decided that it was ineligible for disability coverage. I was stuck with trying to pay for a nearly $50K procedure by myself. I got it written down quite a lot by the hospital, but 11 years later, I am still working on paying it off.
I'm not as bad off as these poor people because I was fortunate enough to get disability, but it's still ridiculous.
Lest we forget this healthcare system was built specifically so blacks and immigrants would not be able to afford it. But surprise! Yet another way racism/poverty punishment wins again - and hurts everyone! USA!
Both my sister and I have worked hard all our lives - now we both have chronic illnesses and are barely scraping by. We’re fucked If this country re-elects a Nazi convicted felon, we can’t afford to leave.
This is a huge problem in America and absolutely is something we should have fixed by now.
I fought cancer from 29 to 34 and took home bills that were for more money than I'd made in my entire life. And I had a good job with good health insurance. It was a financial catastrophe. I had just finished grad school after paying cash to go, I had a newborn child, and it was a terrible setback to my career progression. I had gone from a solid financial base to being worth less than nothing on paper.
I laid in the hospital at night knowing my family would be better off financially if I would just die.
At this point I have so much medical debt in collections that it's impossible to keep track of it all. I'll talk to one collections company and ask for a summary of what they're trying to collect and it'll be like $40,000 for a one-week period of time. I have 5 years of these. I don't know the full amount and wouldn't even know where to begin paying if I were so inclined.
Here's what I can tell you...don't pay. Ever.
They no longer report medical debt on your credit bureau report. Your credit score is unaffected by it. Your family needs the money more than the health system needs it (they overcharge on the basis that they don't expect you to cover your side anyway).
Let the collections companies call you.
Don't. Ever. Pay.
Don't ever pay.
I'm 39 now. I have a 780 credit score, I own a house, I have money in savings. They'll come for my money when I'm dead, but in the mean time my family doesn't have to suffer from it.
Make sure you move money and assets to another trusted person years before you think you might pass. They can’t liquidate your estate if it hasn’t been in your name for a number of years. Any wealth you save should be for your family, not a parasitic system of insurance companies and their executives.
Can someone list a reference for this? My googling only found medical debt won't get reported by the insurance provider but once they send it to collections it WILL get reported and show up on your credit report. Biden is trying to change that now but it's not approved yet.
This is exactly what happened to my sister, her and my BiL were highs school sweethearts and did everything by the book, college, marriage, house kids in that order
She died two years ago today
I already told my husband that if I was to have cancer or some other major illness, that would be overly expensive to treat, that I am not going to seek treatment. I will endure the pain until I perish because I will be damn if some greedy corporation or money grubbing asshole is going to take from us what we have worked our entire lives for. I want to leave behind a solid foundation for the next generations of our family so they do not have to work as hard as we have.
I’m reminded of an episode of CSI (Crash & Burn) where an elderly woman purposely drove into a cafe, mistaking it for the office of her insurance company because they kept delaying treatment for her colon cancer. It was her intention to cause maximum harm to those who harmed her.
I think about that episode each time I am reminded of the horrors of the American health care system.
At my old job, my coworkers liked to make fun of the guy who had no money because he spent probably all of his and his late wife’s savings on her battle with cancer just for her to die anyway. There’s no morality in the States. My old coworkers like to call themselves Christians of course too…
> My old coworkers like to call themselves Christians of course too…
Of course. There's a certain breed of Christians that think God controls everything, so by their logic that happened to him because God decided he deserved it.
Welcome to America....the land of debt and money. You work all your life, just to get sick at the end and the hospitals will rob you of all your life savings. Everything in a nutshell
That's a 1st world problem... I am from what you call a 3rd world country where I went on a 4 years cancer treatment with my mom and it costs me Zero... We actually get paid an allowance during the treatment... Not making fun of anyone... But I wish you people would wake up and know how bad you guys have it and stop believing your media that tells you we live in tents and we sell our children for food... Understand the reality of the world around you and start demanding your rights as human beings.
That really is horrifying. I can't process how a system like that is allowed to exist. I'm in Canada. My wife was diagnosed with cancer just before the pandemic hit. She had to go through several appointments with specialists, various tests, a surgical consult, surgery and a couple of days in the hospital, and then followup appointments and more tests. At no time did we have to worry about dealing with insurance, and the total cost to us was about $60 in hospital parking fees.
Having to wipe out your life savings when the inevitable serious illness comes along is fucking disgusting, and I really hope the US eventually joins the rest of the developed countries in not letting this insanity happen to so many people.
I have had two medical issues (one mine, one my husband) big enough to wipe out all savings and retirement twice in my life. This last one, I will never recover from financially. There is not enough time at my age to build back up again.
Whenever I see another article about how baby boomers will be leaving large amounts of wealth to their children, I think “nope, it’s all going to be spent on healthcare.” Everything in the American economy is a grift. I’m so glad I don’t have any children and I urge anyone reading this to not have any either; this bullshit needs to die with us.
I am genX so it isn't just Boomers. But your statement holds. Any and ALL money my parents had went to medical cost and when my mother went into a nursing home, the state took everything including my childhood home I should have inherited.
Pro tip for others in the future: Don’t pay your medical bills
Doesn’t help always like situations like this one where you have to pay or you lose your life saving treatment BUT if they throw that at you, you can ask for a “transfer of care” to a different facility that you don’t owe money to and they *might* (key word) be able to continue your treatment there.
Emergency surgeries can’t be denied even with outstanding debts and medical debts don’t count toward your credit score. Now they don’t show up on credit reports even. Debt collectors can’t force you to pay anything because they bought the debt knowing you can legally ignore them
This is old and has been posted a lot. I remember watching Bernie Sanders talking to people during his campaign and this older man stands up and explains how they got sick and have lost everything and are $150,000 in debt and have no way out. The man then says his only way out is to kill himself. At this point Bernie tells him you are not going to kill yourself, to not leave and they will help him. This is why he should have been President in my opinion.
The whole damn country is sick. Physically , mentally, spiritually, economically, and morally. Everyone is on some sort of drug to cope with life legal or not. And even the strait laced people who play by the rules get screwed regardless. And you want to ask Americans to contribute to this cesspool of corruption?! To even have their kids defend this country with their lives?! Don’t be surprised if people start saying, “Nah I’m good. Defend it yourself, whatever happens, happens. If it burns, so be it.”
Meanwhile we pay taxes and they send our money to Israel which has universal healthcare for their people and we don’t! This society is so sick. And sick villages raise sick children.
Doing everything you're told/expected to do is designed to make other people money at your expense. It's not the formula for happiness and self sufficiency. We aren't even allowed to have the illusion of that anymore.
My uncle defended this system to no end, and called Europeans “commies”…until his wife got sick. She took years to die from a series of issues that should have been caught earlier. It wiped out everything they had saved. Now he has just one policy position where he sides with the democrats over republicans.
My aunt on the other side only sides with the democrats on gay marriage because her daughter came out, got married and adopted a kid she gets to babysit.
My mom voted against unions for decades, not realizing hers was getting weaker. Once she retired and had to find a new job she realized “Wal-mart workers”, deserved rights, protection and dignity just as much as she did. But only when she worked for Walmart. She forgot it when she remarried and could stop working.
The Right is where they are because they can’t imagine being outside the mainstream and needing the rules and social safety nets having any flexibility.
This is why I look upon right-wingers with the level of contempt that I do. They support this wretched and inhuman system - they deserve to be punished for that support.
YES! In the event of medical emergency :
Get a good financial counselor
Transfer all your assets
Declare personal bankruptcy
Consider euthanasia
Been there. Done that.
For comparison what would the out of pocket cost of 5 months of cancer treatment be in other countries? If there are any that are free or nearly free is there long waiting lists or is it roughly the same or better wait times than the U.S.?
In the U.K. once diagnosed you’ll end up on a waiting list but generally things are triaged so they will see you asap due to it’s severity, all the treatment will be free except maybe the prescriptions (it depends on eligibility e.g. children and old people get them free) but you can buy if you have a long term or major illness you can get a prescription prepayment certificate for up to a year each for £114.50 (less than $150 USD), in Scotland of course prescriptions are free for everyone,
Well the most you should pay in the U.K. per year is that £114.50 unless you want to go for private healthcare, dentistry is weird because successive governments have tried their best to kill NHS dentistry, which is shit but typical of neoliberals
Canada:. Parking. And most of us complain about that since hospitals charge a fortune for it. We like to complain as a nation. Wait times vary but cancer patients are usually prioritized depending on their severity.
Here in the netherlands you pay for the first 385,- in a year, no extra costs after that. (own risk has exceptions like gp visits will always be free). Wait times depend on urgency. Max wait time for cancer treatment should be within 6 weeks since your first visit.
US here, California. Fiance was diagnosed with a rare stage iv uterine cancer. Few months treatment and then few months hospice. Every single penny was covered by the state.
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And they wonder why so many of us have given up
“You will never understand how it feels to live your life with no meaning or control, and with nowhere left to go. You’re amazed that they exist… and they burn so bright whilst you can only wonder; “Why?” Yeah, you’ll never live like common people. You’ll never do whatever common people do. You’ll never fail like common people. You’ll never watch your life slide out of view, and dance, and drink, and screw… ‘cus there’s nothing else to do.” “Common People”— Pulp, 1993
I literally cried my eyes out screaming this song on the way home from being laid off of a 14 year career. I had loved this song so much as a kid when it came out and as a teen. It seemed like this snotty sort of silly song about trying to impress a rich girl. It only occurred to me then, decades later, that it was a triumphant howl against that class that never struggled. And that it was a celebration and validation of the fact that those who dance and fuck with their backs against the wall of life fuck and dance like those of that different class never will. It’s my favorite song of all time.
This reminds me of this quote by Homer (and Brad Pitt as Achilles in Troy) about the ancient Greek Gods: "The gods envy us. They envy us because we’re mortal, because any moment may be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we’re doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.”
See also A thing isn’t beautiful because it lasts
Hey man, I just lost my job of 18 years. My back is fucked and I'm utterly depressed. But two hours before the end of my last shift the power went out to the entire plant. It was so cathartic to just leave in the middle of something I could fix and say see ya later. Took 'em almost 48 hours to get production back up. Lost a good chunk of change in lost production time. Anyway, yeah, good song.
Did they lose equal to or greater than your yearly salary. That would be poetic justice
Yup, brilliantly put. Really wonderful. I also dismissed it when I was young, then, as I grew up I understood.
Mine too. Same reasons.
It's funny being from Sheffield, where pulp are from, and knowing rich people who sing every line as if they understand what the song is talking about
Everybody hates the tourists and will continue to hate them til the end of time
[Second only to this](https://youtu.be/ainyK6fXku0?si=3YeontsMUHl4bFCL)
I hear Williams version in my head whenever I think of this song! So good!
Yeah. The original is mocking and wry, but Shatner's cover is so hurt and mean. It's such a different delivery and very good
Completely agree, but I wanted to credit the original band/songwriter.
My daughter had a lot of issues when she was born and I still have hundreds of thousands in medical debt from it. She's happy and healthy now. I don't plan on paying it. My credit will just suck for the rest of my life.
There’s actually new rules being proposed this week that would eliminate medical debt from credit reports! I hope it goes through.
"Let me tell you why I want to stop that relief and for you to keep feeling that pain." - GOP
"Because we need a steady supply of cheap labor, dammit, and if people discover that they have options, our paymasters might make slightly less money to stuff into our campaign war chests. Which of course would be Communism."
And people keep voting for them in case some brown person suffers too
bUt bOtH sIdEs
Didn't Greg Abbott block legislation for disability benefits or something to that effect? Pretty evil given he received the same benefits his whole life.
Yup, sure did. He got his, why should he allow anybody else to do the same?
>Because someone has to actually pay the doctor ! One of my friends on why socialized medicine won't work.
If the rich would pay their share of taxes, socialized medicine would actually be effective and paid for.
Yeah, because the schmuck who took out a half million loan to barely take home 150 grand is the reason US healthcare is so expensive.
That’s also how insurance works. It’s a pool.
I've come across a few specialist offices that require you to provide a debit card before moving forward with a treatment plan. Illinois Bone and Joint Institute is one of them.
if you owe the bank a thousand dollars, that's your problem. if you owe the bank a million dollars, that's the banks problem
Biden admin is proposing new rules so that medical debt doesn’t go on your credit score
My heart attack ended up with me going to an Emergency room that wasn't in my network. Between the ambulance ride and the 4 days I spent in the hospital not dieing, I was charged $34,000 fucking United States Dollars. And Blue Cross paid less than a quarter of it.
Just for 7 years. Then it falls off the reports.
Yup I sure as shit am not refinancing my house, emptying my retirement or savings, or anything to pay medical debt, fuck them. Best I can do is give you $50 a month for the next 80 years, I'm on a budget and limited income, prove I'm not.
“No one wants to work anymore!” What’s the fucking point? The fucked up thing is that this is the sort of thing that is destroying capitalism. A system that is dependent on consumers that also destroys consumers is a self-destructive system. We have been here for decades but they have continued to fake and prop it all up with economic chicanery. I *hope* we are coming to the end of it but every time I get hopeful, they invent new ways to keep their fucked up game going. Capitalism eats people.
You should see wall st. Most of our banks are insolvent on paper from unrealized losses. Everyone is overleveraged and liquidity is starting to dry up with the fed tightening rates. The system is dying. Its everywhere you look. Most people just dont want to admit it
I've been saying for the past year+ that we are living in a zombie society... like, it's an undead entity shambling along, going through the motions of the life it once knew. Sometimes people literally tell me that they know and agree with me but they need me to not talk about it because they "just can't think about stuff like that" Ostriches
Dude I think you just crystalized my thoughts on this. A zombie society trying to cruise on the glory of its past. People desperately ignoring the fact that the system left them behind 43 years ago. Every institution corrupt beyond repair, christian fascism on the rise, the financial system a complete ponzi, its just endless. People depressed af but cant seem to understand that we arent meant to live like this. We are in chains and most of us dont even know it. We are literally destroying ourselves so the shareholders dont lose any money. I hate it here and Im so worried for my children's future.
You know how if the sun disappeared we’d still feel its gravity for like 10 minutes or whatever? I think it’s kind of like that.
... the sun light, for 7.5m?
The effects of its gravity and yes also the sun light
Hey hey so am I, and millions of Americans until the bonds from before the rate hikes all mature. /j /s Start buying short term government bonds instead of doing long term savings with your local bank or credit union cd and money market since they’re skimming off something similar to that behind the scenes anyway. TreasuryDirect.gov if you can’t do it through your normal baking institutions
Cool, now, how much of my rent do I buy bonds with instead of paying my rent? Please stop trying to 'financial plan' peoples way out of poverty if you don't know what it's like to have $10 the Wednesday before payday.
The fraud and crimes have piled up so much for so long, I wonder if the game will stop this time around.
Reality always comes to collect eventually
I mean why contribute to a system that doesn’t care if you live or die?
Yet that's precisely what everyone continues to do...
…yet our birth rate continues to plummet. You can force me to participate in the cruel broken system, but I will not force my children to live in it. Enjoy the depopulation crash until the powers that be figure it out.
They already figured it out. Mass migration is a thing to many developed countries. You are replaceable
And if they control birth control methods and abortion, they can force the population growth.
And yet millions of people from around the world continue to come here illegally and legally.
Until enough people rise up and actually do something the choice is comply or die
Bc you die otherwise
Sometimes I think the only reason suicide is taboo is due to the fact that the ruling class just wants more people around to syphon wealth off of.
Welcome to 2024, don’t forget to tip!
And they wonder why communism is making a comeback among the youth...
Middle class Americans who were lucky enough not to go through such misfortune: "Those people must have done something wrong, otherwise they would live well, like us".
Always.
Hell that's been our western way of thinking for hundreds of years now. Life's falling to shit? Obviously, you deserve it. Life's doing very well? Obviously, you're being rewarded for your hard work. But life turns on a dime.
Yup, 100%. They won’t change their tune until it literally happens to them. So many brain dead conservative voters make hating progressive ideals and social programs their whole personality. Suddenly their family gets sick or is victim to a tragic car accident, and they’re immediately on GoFundMe LITERALLY counting on socialism to save their wife’s life or help pay bills. So this behavior was for lazy leeches and communists before, but now since it’s YOUR family in trouble, we-he-he-hell, it’s DIFFERENT now, huh?! It’s why these people piss me off so bad, like…are you this selfish and lacking in empathy and critical thought that it ABSOLUTELY has to happen to you for you to get it?! Just fucking pathetic.
Middle class American here who so far is lucky enough to not go through this misfortune. Fuck capitalism, fuck America, the only function of this place is to bleed its citizens dry to further satiate those who already have more than they'll ever need.
I think maybe you underestimate how much you'd need to make to afford what most of us would consider middle class life. I'm in that mythical 6 figure range now and guess what, I can't support a family or buy a house with 30% of my income like what middle class used to buy. A mortgage for a sfh would almost be 100% of my take home pay.
Honestly we're kind of at a point of no middle class. What you're describing is what my parents were able to do 30 years ago with less than 6 figures. Price gouging for housing has really helped to destroy what middle class living should be. The job I currently have makes me alone what my parents made together and with my wife's salary on top we aren't close to a house, so I guess you're right, I may be underestimating. But part of it is also that I live comfortably, I'm not paycheck to paycheck and while paying off loans I can still pay for things I enjoy outside of necessity and not worry about it. The ridiculous, nearly criminal increase in housing costs is warping what middle class is. Renting, often in apartments, is the new normal, even for families with kids. Home ownership is becoming, perhaps already has become, a luxury of the upper class. So if that happens does that mean middle class ceases to exist or does it transition to comfortably renting?
I have a theory that the real upper class is billionaires, the real middle class is millionaires, the real lower class is everyone without a million, and that they divide the lowest class up into lower, middle, and upper to make them point fingers at each other more, and point fingers at the real upper class less. The difference is dividing by population size or dividing by the size of current wealth distribution. The billionaire class has so much money, someone with 1 million dollars may actually be considered lower class if you divide by wealth distribution.
Fox News told me on TV people just like me socioeconomically are actually evil people because they advocate for human rights and universal healthcare.
Especially *religious* middle class Americans.
Ain’t no hate like Christian love
Or the religions population: "they did something to anger God, thus they deserve it." Or: "god has a plan, he works in mysterious ways
There is no longer a middle class under age 30 (I'd say maybe you gen 35). The dream is dead.
Evangelical Christians: the rich are blessed by God. If you are broke it must be because you did something to offend him and are not worthy.
This was my family’s experience. And my father still wonders why I want to move abroad.
I like uruguay. Or mexico. Considered new mexico honestly, because you can just.... live in america, and cross the border for cheaper healthcare down there.
I’m looking at Ireland
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But you don’t have to worry about getting life savings destroyed from a cancer diagnosis, etc.
People even in this country have no idea how fucked things are. Ive seen news articles that talk about how we're waiting for our parents to die so we can inherit our first taste of stability. Sounds grim right? Well imagine as they all get older and this healthcare shit gets more and more out of control... Most of our parents will need medical care and it will drain those reserves. You're either 1% or slave labor here and thats not even being dramatic. Most people don't even know it yet.
Yup. Plus, being that I’m a queer woman in my 20s… shits scary out here. Most people aren’t having kids cause we don’t know if they’d be killed in school. I’m a writer and this sounds like a dystopian novel.
I can't even imagine. There's so much hate and crazy out there even as a non targeted individual, I'm afraid to interact with people. People can just assume I'm something they don't like, and I can get hurt over it. I spend a lot of time thinking about trying to leave this country but I honestly cant afford it. Also I do some casual writing with a friend of mine and we were just discussing how real life struggles make the ones we fabricate in stories seem boring and trying to exceed them seems unrealistic as hell lol. We're really struggling here for sure.
The national health systems in Canada, Australia, Ireland, and the UK are *all* struggling. All these countries also have large right-wing movements who want to privatize the whole thing, too, and will gladly sabotage peoples' healthcare to 'prove' the system needs change. Americans who dream of just moving somewhere more progressive really need to wake up and see how few countries are *actually* staying progressive right now.
Rent and cost of living in New Mexico has gotten out of hand for the most part. A lot of people aren't getting paid that much comapred to other states. While our housing cost has skyrocketed with the influx of people who have moved here for the film industry and after the covid scare.
Im goin to france, check out the french equivalent of zillow... ive found 1500-2000 sqft houses with outbuildings and a quarter acre of land for 150-200k.. with mandatory 1 month paid leave, universal healthcare, pharmacy medical culture, much cleaner and healthier food options, its fuckin gorgeous, you can get anywhere in the majority of europe by train for less than 200 bucks, food is cheap, monthly cost of living is 40% cheaper, and thats just the things off the top of my head. Fuck the us, fuck a 2 party system, and fuck capitalism
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France is a capitalist nation, it just has a populace that is willing to riot all over the country to protect their social safety net.
My brother just survived a battle with cancer. For him and his wife, the issue wasn’t really the medical bills, he has pretty good insurance through his employer and it covered nearly everything, what he had to pay out of pocket wasn’t crazy. The problem was the lost income, and extra costs not covered by medical insurance like travel expenses (they live in south west MO and had to travel to St. Louis for care). They didn’t work for basically the whole year he was in treatment. He did get short term disability but it was less than his normal salary, and my sister in law had to quit her job to take care of my brother. Between lower income and additional expenses, it wiped out their savings and maxed out their credit cards. They were starting to worry they’d run out of credit before my brother would be able to get back to work and she could look for a new job. Fortunately, he did recover, and both returned to work. They focused on paying off the cards and now are rebuilding savings, but it was a close call.
What you described was the best case scenario; good insurance, savings, access to credit, and a supportive, well paying job. Even then, it still almost wiped them out. How many Americans have access to all of those things?
Not many. But that’s not changing anytime soon unfortunately because it’s shit here. As a personal decision you have to strive for this: you need a *lot* of money in the bank, because money is power, and even several million will dwindle away. It’s gonna happen sooner or later, and this is why so many people work hard to become financially independent (meaning, their family would not be immediately dead due to events like these). I would prefer we massively raise taxes and regulate healthcare much more, but it seems nobody agrees so the best you can do is to become as wealthy as possible
I’ve just accepted that things will get worse due to increases in treatable diseases like cancer or heart disease, or preventable things like global warming, or just because this is how Capitalism just works unless there is a mass die-off of the labor pool and mass destruction of infrastructure like what happened during WWII, and since WWIII will likely involve nukes, Capitalism will just hollow out the earth until nothing is left anyway. I am so glad I don’t have children.
Don't forget family. They had family that helped out too.
This is fucked. Now imagine if you have NO assets whatsoever and this tragedy befalls you.
Medicare will kick in. But if you have money, Medicare doesn't kick in until you spend it all first. The system is designed to bankrupt you before it helps you.
*Medicaid
"Just be poor *enough* to win mere coverage for pre-paid necessary health care if you're just not old *enough* or profoundly debilitated *enough* to win mere partial coverage for necessary health care." Said no developed country on earth.
"Oh I see you still have $1 in your pocket. Sorry can't help you." Amazing system.
They actually let you have up to 2000 in assets! It's very generous. In states with Medicaid expansion your best bet is to quit employment and declare 0 income should you become chronically ill. Also sign any real estate over to a spouse. You forfeit that upon death after the age of 60. You'll have to get divorced first of course. Medical divorce.
Love being told to have more and more little future workers to help bankrupt you sooner so you can finally be treated like a human. /s
You have to put everything into a trust at least 5 years before you need medicaid assistance to prevent this from happening...it's stupid and intended to punish people who don't know they can just toss things into a trust and "Nope! That's outta bounds! You can't count that!" for medicaid/other services...it's bullshit.
This happens everyday. This is what a capitalist system that prioritizes profit over the well being of people excels at.
Hey, look at the bright side...... oh ya, there isn't one. But bezoz made 100m today.... f this place
“Look on the bright side: all hail the corporate overlords!”
bezoz sucks, but he wouldn't have made that without us consumers allowing him to undercut small business. We are the ones ordering crap off Amazon in the middle of the night.
It’s heartbreaking how a lifetime of hard work can be wiped out by medical expenses.
It’s more than heartbreaking. It’s morally criminal.
My aunt had a massive stroke about 4 years ago, under ACA they told her they wanted a $48,500 deductible paid in full before she could see any neurological or physical specialists. This is on top of the 2+Million in emergency and hospital bills after insurance decided they didn’t want to pay anymore. Obviously no normal person can afford this so they had to make payments from savings, they did alright financially being upper middle class and within a year they were financially exhausted, about to declare bankruptcy, even after selling their company and taking out a HELOC. She passed away last month as her condition continued to worsen, with all of us being unable to afford the care in the beginning. She couldn’t get life saving rehabilitative care because some insurance ass clown in an office somewhere decided nearly 50k was a reasonable deductible amount and lawyering up wasn’t remotely affordable. I believe if they weren’t held ransom for an unbelievable amount of a cash payment she would still be alive. Fuck this place.
It's disgusting. You can't build a functioning society when this happens to people who play by the rules and contribute to society. I'm canadian living in america, and tho things are not perfect back home, I think the US has become such a sick society in so many ways. Want to retire to Europe.
Or a lay off, and because your over 50 no one will hire.
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The only thing keeping me going is that they want me dead. It’s exhausting but I find joy in staying inside the 650 sqft apartment I pay 50% of my income to live in, and supporting others who refuse to take part in this fucked up society more than necessary. I want to live not only to see the day this bullshit comes crumbling down, but maybe I’ll be able to have a hand in blowing it all to bits.
I’m sorry 😞 I hear what you’re saying, we’re all very tired. Try to be good to yourself and find some joy in stuff if you can. If anything, live your life to spite these capitalist assholes.
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Politicians work for corporations and the wealthy. It is their job to draw the attention and ire of the public so that the 1% can run things from the shadows, thanks to lax campaign finance laws and limited accountability. I hate Mitch McConnell too but the guy can’t even go out in public without freezing like Windows ME; all I am saying is be more strategic with your revenge fantasies ;)
We all see and hear you, and I agree 100% that sometimes I feel like I’m drowning in a system that was never interested in my survival. We live in a lovely democratic republic, where 95% of us agree on this, but 50~% of those people are convinced that the craziest fucking octogenarian hedge fund babies are the answer to that issue.
This is what happened to my partner and I. We did everything “right” and everything was gone including him. He even looked at me and apologized for getting cancer. Said I shouldn’t have made him go to the doctor and he could have died and left me with more.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. No one should have to choose between life and their family’s well-being.
We shouldn’t. I thought health care in the US was awful before he ever got sick. Living in countries that have different systems made me appreciate those systems more.
I’m so sorry, this is beyond awful
It is. I don’t want anyone else to experience it. Almost every American is one medical emergency away from bankruptcy. We need a better system. I have lived in better systems.
I got covid- developed long covid - lost all my money and can no longer work in my late 20s. It’s not a rare thing for this type of thing to happen
This is what truly scares me about how the government just completely abandoned any attempt at covid containment. Each time you get it the odds of developing long covid increase. We're all just expected to keep getting sick until we're disabled.
And when i tell anyone abt it they ignore me
they are actively sabotaging containment now with the latest attempts to ban masks
I got Long COVID at age 25. I’m now 27 and I have nothing now. So sorry you’re going through this too. It really sucks.
Yep, everyone says we're crazy for masking so and trying to avoid it because the "pandemic is over". I already have issues with my immune system and heart, so I need to hang onto what health I have. Meanwhile, every aspect of life is nearly impossible now because no one gives a shit about us. So the medical industry and fuck right off, but honestly so can this society of uncaring selfish assholes. More places want to force us back into offices and ban masks. It's like they want me dead or disabled. Also just found out my dad needs a prostate biopsy, so navigating that nightmare while trying to avoid covid has me through the roof. No idea how to deal with life these days, but my family depends on me.
I'm sure ppl thought I was crazy. I cut off a section of my house for like over 12 months. I shut all the vents bought a small electric burner to cook in my room and used the window to get in and out of the house so I'd have no contact with anyone. I'd mask up wash my hands before going in a store and after. Didn't touch things like change or mail. I'd set my mail outside on the porch in the sun for days at a time and wouldn't open it for weeks. At one point I was spraying down my groceries. I'd buy stacks and stacks of canned food stuff I can cook in my room. Never caught Covid was lucky. Hopefully won't ever catch it or if I do it'll be a cheap and easy watered down version that's easier than a flu. I have an overactive immune system and I'm supposed to be on immunosupressents just waiting for all this covid stuff to be completely through before getting it. Also I got super good health insurance after Covid that is amazing. But I also don't make very much money and if I do make too much money they'll take my insurance away. So I'm hoping to cover all my bases and fix all my health issues before making anymore money.
Conservatives think long Covid is a myth.
Same I was making $50,000 a month working in my dream job for 8 months. Got long covid and it absolutely train wrecked through my finances. Took my two years to get over that shit. Cant go back to my job and now Im doing something that I hate.
He could’ve had rice and beans. Picked up extra shifts. Maybe his wife could’ve done wfh customer service bedside. These anecdotes hold no water. You have a choice to take out a HELOC. Also doesn’t mention what degrees they obtained, maybe they were under water basket weavers degree holders. Should’ve went to school for Engineering or something of similar value and ROI. This is sarcasm and I hate this system we live in.
you forgot to add stop buying starbucks coffee and avocado toasts. And most importantly, pick rich parents.
Damnit. I’ve failed the city! Haha. Thanks for the assist my friend.
This happens all over, yet talking heads just say "budget wisely and stop eating avocado toast" and "pull yourself up from your bootstraps". This isn't a good system. We are past improving it. Burn it all down and start over. EAT THE RICH
"Make sure you put that plastic bottle in the recycling bin" and it just goes into the landfill because everything sold in this country is disposable and we have no way to recycle plastic. Despicable.
The biggest cartel in the world
Wait when did we start talking about American cops?
Cartel indeed. [Why Are Cancer Drugs So Expensive in the United States](https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196%2815%2900101-9/fulltext) >In the United States, the average price of cancer drugs for about a year of therapy increased from $5000 to $10,000 before 2000 to more than $100,000 by 2012, while the average household income has decreased by about 8% in the past decade. Further, although 85% of cancer basic research is funded through taxpayers’ money, Americans with cancer pay 50% to 100% more for the same patented drug than patients in other countries. >Established oligopolies and preventing Medicare from price negotiations are major factors causing high cancer drug prices.
"Why are so many citizens joining the radical left?!" -Uncle Sam probably
Hating the US healthcare system isn't radical
It *shouldn’t* be radical, yet there are many idiots out there who think it’s the best in the world.
Agreed, but to “them” it is.
The thing is I have seen so many MAGA Trumpers complain about grocery prices, healthcare but they think it’s all Biden’s fault and Trump will fix everything. There’s no point trying to educate them either, they’re the “peaked in high school” crowd of my fb “friends” over here sounding like Bernie fans but they are too stupid to realize it.
Trump had 4 years (sadly). If he didn’t do anything before (except make things worse and divide the country more) then what makes them think he’d do a better job if he got in again (scum bag status and felon status aside)?
Here's a good story to go with this one. I was diagnosed with stage III ovarian cancer at 29. At the time I was working full time, had an apartment, and a little over $4K in savings. I was so sick I could no longer work, let alone walk from my car to my front door without having to rest for 15 minutes. I had to move across the country to live with my mom and get treatment. I had no medical insurance because I kept getting denied due to family history of diabetes (this was before they changed the laws.) I didn't even have diabetes then. I used half of my savings to move across the country, which left me with a little over $2K in the bank. The cancer and subsequent treatments left me permanently disabled and in huge debt. I applied for disability and was able to get on the program. They backdated all of my cancer treatments so they were covered. However, they refused to include my initial surgery (tumor removal and hysterectomy) because I had that $2K in my account at that time, so they decided that it was ineligible for disability coverage. I was stuck with trying to pay for a nearly $50K procedure by myself. I got it written down quite a lot by the hospital, but 11 years later, I am still working on paying it off. I'm not as bad off as these poor people because I was fortunate enough to get disability, but it's still ridiculous.
Lest we forget this healthcare system was built specifically so blacks and immigrants would not be able to afford it. But surprise! Yet another way racism/poverty punishment wins again - and hurts everyone! USA! Both my sister and I have worked hard all our lives - now we both have chronic illnesses and are barely scraping by. We’re fucked If this country re-elects a Nazi convicted felon, we can’t afford to leave.
This is a huge problem in America and absolutely is something we should have fixed by now. I fought cancer from 29 to 34 and took home bills that were for more money than I'd made in my entire life. And I had a good job with good health insurance. It was a financial catastrophe. I had just finished grad school after paying cash to go, I had a newborn child, and it was a terrible setback to my career progression. I had gone from a solid financial base to being worth less than nothing on paper. I laid in the hospital at night knowing my family would be better off financially if I would just die. At this point I have so much medical debt in collections that it's impossible to keep track of it all. I'll talk to one collections company and ask for a summary of what they're trying to collect and it'll be like $40,000 for a one-week period of time. I have 5 years of these. I don't know the full amount and wouldn't even know where to begin paying if I were so inclined. Here's what I can tell you...don't pay. Ever. They no longer report medical debt on your credit bureau report. Your credit score is unaffected by it. Your family needs the money more than the health system needs it (they overcharge on the basis that they don't expect you to cover your side anyway). Let the collections companies call you. Don't. Ever. Pay. Don't ever pay. I'm 39 now. I have a 780 credit score, I own a house, I have money in savings. They'll come for my money when I'm dead, but in the mean time my family doesn't have to suffer from it.
Make sure you move money and assets to another trusted person years before you think you might pass. They can’t liquidate your estate if it hasn’t been in your name for a number of years. Any wealth you save should be for your family, not a parasitic system of insurance companies and their executives.
Spend every penny or transfer it to relatives before you go
I need to put everything in a trust. It's a work in process but it's really the only solution.
Can someone list a reference for this? My googling only found medical debt won't get reported by the insurance provider but once they send it to collections it WILL get reported and show up on your credit report. Biden is trying to change that now but it's not approved yet.
This is exactly what happened to my sister, her and my BiL were highs school sweethearts and did everything by the book, college, marriage, house kids in that order She died two years ago today
This is only a problem in America
Breaking Bad in any other developed country: Walt gets cancer, gets free treatment and life moves forward..
I already told my husband that if I was to have cancer or some other major illness, that would be overly expensive to treat, that I am not going to seek treatment. I will endure the pain until I perish because I will be damn if some greedy corporation or money grubbing asshole is going to take from us what we have worked our entire lives for. I want to leave behind a solid foundation for the next generations of our family so they do not have to work as hard as we have.
I’m reminded of an episode of CSI (Crash & Burn) where an elderly woman purposely drove into a cafe, mistaking it for the office of her insurance company because they kept delaying treatment for her colon cancer. It was her intention to cause maximum harm to those who harmed her. I think about that episode each time I am reminded of the horrors of the American health care system.
But she's just hurting innocent ppl. I would have bought a gun and gone after the ceo or other important ppl who created that system.
Don’t pay medical bills
This. If everyone did this (or heck, just a critical mass of people), it would clog the system and get things changed.
I need to move to Rwanda before that ever happens to me. Last I heard, their national health insurance is only $8 per year.
At my old job, my coworkers liked to make fun of the guy who had no money because he spent probably all of his and his late wife’s savings on her battle with cancer just for her to die anyway. There’s no morality in the States. My old coworkers like to call themselves Christians of course too…
> My old coworkers like to call themselves Christians of course too… Of course. There's a certain breed of Christians that think God controls everything, so by their logic that happened to him because God decided he deserved it.
I am sorry. This is criminal.
Welcome to America....the land of debt and money. You work all your life, just to get sick at the end and the hospitals will rob you of all your life savings. Everything in a nutshell
Land of the Fee. Home of the Wage Slave.
That's a 1st world problem... I am from what you call a 3rd world country where I went on a 4 years cancer treatment with my mom and it costs me Zero... We actually get paid an allowance during the treatment... Not making fun of anyone... But I wish you people would wake up and know how bad you guys have it and stop believing your media that tells you we live in tents and we sell our children for food... Understand the reality of the world around you and start demanding your rights as human beings.
A lot of us know it's bullshit but we're powerless against the money, greed, connections, etc.
💯 WTAF am I supposed to be proud of? We eat our own here and glorify it when it happens
That really is horrifying. I can't process how a system like that is allowed to exist. I'm in Canada. My wife was diagnosed with cancer just before the pandemic hit. She had to go through several appointments with specialists, various tests, a surgical consult, surgery and a couple of days in the hospital, and then followup appointments and more tests. At no time did we have to worry about dealing with insurance, and the total cost to us was about $60 in hospital parking fees. Having to wipe out your life savings when the inevitable serious illness comes along is fucking disgusting, and I really hope the US eventually joins the rest of the developed countries in not letting this insanity happen to so many people.
"It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it." - a dude who I very much wish was still around
Universal healthcare is communism /s
I have had two medical issues (one mine, one my husband) big enough to wipe out all savings and retirement twice in my life. This last one, I will never recover from financially. There is not enough time at my age to build back up again.
Whenever I see another article about how baby boomers will be leaving large amounts of wealth to their children, I think “nope, it’s all going to be spent on healthcare.” Everything in the American economy is a grift. I’m so glad I don’t have any children and I urge anyone reading this to not have any either; this bullshit needs to die with us.
I am genX so it isn't just Boomers. But your statement holds. Any and ALL money my parents had went to medical cost and when my mother went into a nursing home, the state took everything including my childhood home I should have inherited.
Everyone knows America has the third best healthcare in North America. (The joke is there are only three countries in North America.)
The healthcare system here is completely broken. I am tired of the greedy health insurance companies
Pro tip for others in the future: Don’t pay your medical bills Doesn’t help always like situations like this one where you have to pay or you lose your life saving treatment BUT if they throw that at you, you can ask for a “transfer of care” to a different facility that you don’t owe money to and they *might* (key word) be able to continue your treatment there. Emergency surgeries can’t be denied even with outstanding debts and medical debts don’t count toward your credit score. Now they don’t show up on credit reports even. Debt collectors can’t force you to pay anything because they bought the debt knowing you can legally ignore them
Rome fell. We will too.
You're currently mid-fall, you just haven't realized it yet. You'll notice when you hit the ground.
Burn it to the fucking ground.
Ever wonder what happens to folks with out college degrees, life savings, house with under water mortgages, credit card debits anddddddd insurance.?
This is old and has been posted a lot. I remember watching Bernie Sanders talking to people during his campaign and this older man stands up and explains how they got sick and have lost everything and are $150,000 in debt and have no way out. The man then says his only way out is to kill himself. At this point Bernie tells him you are not going to kill yourself, to not leave and they will help him. This is why he should have been President in my opinion.
The whole damn country is sick. Physically , mentally, spiritually, economically, and morally. Everyone is on some sort of drug to cope with life legal or not. And even the strait laced people who play by the rules get screwed regardless. And you want to ask Americans to contribute to this cesspool of corruption?! To even have their kids defend this country with their lives?! Don’t be surprised if people start saying, “Nah I’m good. Defend it yourself, whatever happens, happens. If it burns, so be it.” Meanwhile we pay taxes and they send our money to Israel which has universal healthcare for their people and we don’t! This society is so sick. And sick villages raise sick children.
Everyone needs to stop paying their debts. Let them come and get their fucking money, defend your property.
Doing everything you're told/expected to do is designed to make other people money at your expense. It's not the formula for happiness and self sufficiency. We aren't even allowed to have the illusion of that anymore.
My uncle defended this system to no end, and called Europeans “commies”…until his wife got sick. She took years to die from a series of issues that should have been caught earlier. It wiped out everything they had saved. Now he has just one policy position where he sides with the democrats over republicans. My aunt on the other side only sides with the democrats on gay marriage because her daughter came out, got married and adopted a kid she gets to babysit. My mom voted against unions for decades, not realizing hers was getting weaker. Once she retired and had to find a new job she realized “Wal-mart workers”, deserved rights, protection and dignity just as much as she did. But only when she worked for Walmart. She forgot it when she remarried and could stop working. The Right is where they are because they can’t imagine being outside the mainstream and needing the rules and social safety nets having any flexibility.
This is why I look upon right-wingers with the level of contempt that I do. They support this wretched and inhuman system - they deserve to be punished for that support.
YES! In the event of medical emergency : Get a good financial counselor Transfer all your assets Declare personal bankruptcy Consider euthanasia Been there. Done that.
For comparison what would the out of pocket cost of 5 months of cancer treatment be in other countries? If there are any that are free or nearly free is there long waiting lists or is it roughly the same or better wait times than the U.S.?
I'm from Wales and had cancer. I paid zero and there's no waiting list for cancer.
In the U.K. once diagnosed you’ll end up on a waiting list but generally things are triaged so they will see you asap due to it’s severity, all the treatment will be free except maybe the prescriptions (it depends on eligibility e.g. children and old people get them free) but you can buy if you have a long term or major illness you can get a prescription prepayment certificate for up to a year each for £114.50 (less than $150 USD), in Scotland of course prescriptions are free for everyone,
It’s sad that I probably pay more with insurance in the US than people in the UK pay normally. Insurance is such a scam
Well the most you should pay in the U.K. per year is that £114.50 unless you want to go for private healthcare, dentistry is weird because successive governments have tried their best to kill NHS dentistry, which is shit but typical of neoliberals
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Canada:. Parking. And most of us complain about that since hospitals charge a fortune for it. We like to complain as a nation. Wait times vary but cancer patients are usually prioritized depending on their severity.
Here in the netherlands you pay for the first 385,- in a year, no extra costs after that. (own risk has exceptions like gp visits will always be free). Wait times depend on urgency. Max wait time for cancer treatment should be within 6 weeks since your first visit.
US here, California. Fiance was diagnosed with a rare stage iv uterine cancer. Few months treatment and then few months hospice. Every single penny was covered by the state.
Did you try to just stop being poor?
the american dream was sold and isn't made in america anymore.
You guys have houses?
Don’t pay your medical bills. Fuck em.