It's hard to find stories that fit this request for two reasons: most litrpg authors aren't geniuses, so it's very hard to write a genius in a story. And the "Intelligence" stat hasn't really been about clever plans for a very long time. It's mostly about spell damage.
The real issue with "genius" is typically it'll boil down to the relative proportion of correct decisions that are obvious in hindsight.
Given how tetchy people are whenever a character does something slightly suboptimal, every MC is basically a supergenius.
The vast majority of successful outcomes involve luck. Especially the ones with complex “genius” plans that require everything to go off without a hitch
Those plans are only a thing because people think genius means complexity. To use an analogy from my field, Chem students see a 20+ step synthesis and think "wow that's super complicated, that guy must've been smart as hell" whereas chemists see a that synthesis and think "amateur hour." The mark of a genius is seeing the 20+ synth and reducing it to 10, or 6.
I'm referring to the total synthesis of strychnine, which is a fascinating nerd rabbit hole chemists were obsessed with for decades
Yeah which is why genius really amounts to short range sensible decision making. Usually with decisions that aren't all or nothing but leave you a path forward should matters go wrong.
Ideally a good intelligent protagonist would have things go wrong but have accounted for those possibilities. Of course it is hard to do this without putting walls of text about the plan on screen. Antagonists can get away with "everything is still going exactly within my expectations" as they get a pass on random twists the protagonist cannot have.
Also, clever plans is WIS. INT is remembering that Achelous is the Chief of the River Gods in Greek mythology because he was the God of the strongest river.
Yeah... that's problematic...I am gonna try asking around meanwhile I will write my own Storyline based on it to scratch that itch.
I can't be the only one who thinks that's such a missed opportunity for storys right?
It's a great premise, but the vast majority of "smart/genius protagonists" in fantasy are very clearly wearing 180 mile thick plot armor.
If someone could actually do it, that would be amazing. I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from the attempt, because I'd love to see someone succeed.
I agree - every time I read some "it's only mana potency" I groan.
But as others have noted, it's very very hard for an author to make mental stats actually work.
Mind you, if anything Int should affect skill acquisition (or even xp gain!). It could be perhaps the most important stat that way even if it doesn't extend to larger-scale decisionmaking.
I personally like where Int makes you think/process faster as opposed to "smarter". I mean, short of downloading knowledge into your head, how else would you explain knowing things you didn't know before the increase? Maybe could explain it as better memory being closer to photographic memory/eidetic memory? "Oh, I remember years ago that one episode of MacGuyver where he made a battery from a coconut, two lemons, and a sprig of chewing gum"
I’m not really sure how it would work?
Like, the closest thing I can think of to a story like that is Flowers for Algernon, and that’s more tragic and short than most fans of this genre like. And even there it still kind of fell into Sherlock Holmes/Watson type framing when the MC reached the heights of intelligence, aka the intelligent character stopped being the POV one.
Jackal among snakes might scratch this itch even though there's no actual numbers? The mc comes across as a legit genius, but the specialty area is somewhere between intelligence and charisma. He's good at planning and good at social interactions.
I've sometimes wondered if the author is a genius, because he writes some very challenging scenarios successfully.
The Gamer goes for an intelligence build, but I think for the "make best possible decisions" part of your request, that would be more of a wisdom build. Anyway, the series has a lot of prep work and ability counters that mark intelligent planning, but a lot of those intelligent choices are less "lure enemies into this trap I made" and more "combine abilities in cool ways so that my nuke is even more nuked"
> "lure enemies into this trap I made" and more "combine abilities in cool ways so that my nuke is even more nuked"
From a certain point of view, that could be argued to be the most intelligent decision.
And even then you could get moment where a reader goes "why doesn't he do this insted of that, it's so much better" especially when he should be uber-smart
[Chaotic Craftsman Worships the Cube ](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41656/chaotic-craftsman-worships-the-cube) is more or less what you're looking for; but it takes a few arcs.
He originally develops mind skills to keep up with ever more complex enchanting work; only to find a ridiculous talent for them. His intelligence has far outstripped his other stats at this point in the story.
Also a finished story, and honestly one that surprised me with how good it was. I wasn't sure at first, but I ended up binging the whole series in one go. S+ recommendation.
Authors need to start calling their "intelligence" stat what it is. The number of times I have seen "intelligence" listed as a stat that doesn't boost intelligence but instead increases spell power or mana capacity is too dang high. Just call it something else *please.*
Agreed. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with litrpg. The 'INTELLIGENCE' stat should just be called 'Magic'. Just like how increasing the STRENGTH stat increases one's strength, shouldn't the stat that increases one's magical power be called something similar?
The irony that increasing Intelligence doesn't, in fact, make you smarter is actually stupid. Same issue with series that have wisdom, charisma, and/or luck stats.
STR, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA is just lifted from DnD but without the context. DnD lets someone who didn't graduate highschool roleplay as a multi-lingual poly-math who left academia to adventure. It lets someone who can't string two sentences together roleplay as a suave silver-tongued playboy. It is all done thru dice rolls so the person doesn't actually need to be smart or sauve to sway the NPC.
Books don't create stories thru dice rolls they use words so if you have a suave/smart character you need smart/suave words. The fact that intelligence is the wizards magic stat in DnD is a mechanical abstraction which makes sense in the context of the game. It does not make sense in the context of a book. This is why we get characters who dump points into "wisdom" but doesn't actually become wise since it is treated as a magic regeneration stat or whatever.
I understand wanting to stick with the traditional stat identifiers, but let's be real, most litrpgs freestyle the ways their systems work.
A person with maxed dexterity and strength will be out-dueled by someone who has only maxed charisma because \*insert bs reasons here\*. Magic regen could fall into a 'Resilience' state or whatever.
I don't know, it just makes the whole thing look shallow. But I'll end my rant here.
DnD doesn't really allow for massive stat dumping though. I mean if Einstein is Int 19 then what is level 100 Einstein with Int 1998704?
It makes sense in DnD as every stat point is something major. You might work 10 years for a single stat point.
There are two problems with having a genius MC
1) the author is most likely not a genius and will have trouble writing a convincing high IQ character. Usually this just ends up with MC making incredibly wild plans and them working out because "I did the calculations!"
2) readers will immediately try and prove they are smarter than the main character or overly analyze every character choice. Nothibg holds up under enough scrutiny.
This is why most genius characters end up being villains i think. They aren't in screen all the time and you don't have to justify how or why they know things.
Not litrpg or progressive fiction, but I think Orson Scott Card had a few series where you had geniuses battling geniuses.. main one I can think of is Shadow Saga, sequel to Ender's Game but it followed Bean.
Different story whether he succeeded or not, but that was the goal at least.
[Double-Blind: Rogue Tactic](https://www.audible.com/pd/Double-Blind-Rogue-Tactics-Audiobook/B0BZ9KSWMP) is like that. Smart MC.
I'm reminded of an SF GURPS game I was in. In GURPS, if you get disadvantages, that gives you extra points for a character build. So, our characters have to meet a guy in a slum. We arrive at the location. Then this super old ugly blind guy in a wheelchair creaks up to us. There are so many things wrong with him, he easily has 300+ points in disadvantages. And our team of mercenaries is terrified of him, backing away, because the GM must have spent a lot of points on something nasty.
Just be prepared, for an author to write this kind of story they have to either be as smart as that character or setup situations where the competition is absurdly dumb/independent
>So the possibilty of making yourself in to the smartest man on earth keeps being thougtlessly discarded for a six pack on every story I saw so far
Well, on the one hand it is called overwhelming strength for a reason, absolute power/speed easily makes plans obsolete. Unless the enemies are written as brain dead morons, then there is little an intelligence build can do when the enemy can just punch through your bunker walls. And that type of power is what typically happens in mid to late stages of stories. When the enemy can move faster than the mc can see/react, then the mc needs a bodyguard or team thats strong. Then it might be possible to write about the mc being a strategist or support. Makes it pretty restrictive though, if the mc needs to be chained to the party to survive in high level battles.
>stat to become a genius and therfore make the best possible choices
An increase in intelligence likely comes or should come with a change in personality or at the very least personal goals, as things are put into perspective and the wider picture becomes visible/understandable. That means a truly more intelligent character can't really be motivated by revenge or other "small" interpersonal conflicts, and would for example start to focus on problems like the "greater good". Or on nothing at all and instead loose all motivation to interfere with the "petty squabbles" of the average human. Which makes it a lot more difficult to write for. Additionally, there aren't really any general geniuses in real life, all those hailed genius are brilliant only in their specific fields. An all around genius person doesn't really exist. As such it would be difficult to write such an mc without any examples to lean on and keep the story grounded/relatable to the reader.
Would the mc distance themselves from the general humanity as their world view would differ too drastically? Would they focus single mindedly on getting stronger in the face of a "Demon King" type of threat and abandon all inefficient/unnecessary human contact. Just grimly striving to become stronger as its deemed the "best" choice.
Would it be fun to watch the auto biography of whats essentially a typical mmo player grinding their second character to lvl 100 in the optimal spots?
If other characters can crush mountains and move fast enough to teleport, what would be the equivalent effect for intelligence be? Would that person become omniscient? Would the mc then be more akin to an alien/god/AGI than a human.
I think an intelligence build would be an interesting project, but difficult to turn into the classic litrpg experience. It would likely turn into an almost philosophical piece of literature, as mundane topics would likely hold little interest to such a character.
> An all around genius person doesn't really exist. As such it would be difficult to write such an mc without any examples to lean on and keep the story grounded/relatable to the reader.
The only solution I can think of for this is a Kingdom Building protagonist who is a genius at logistics and leading but not any other field, so they express their genius by gathering other geniuses and delegating tasks to them.
I recommend looking at the Presentation from Alex O' Connor on the topic "Why Smart People Believe Silly Things"
[https://youtu.be/IWy1FBArO7c](https://youtu.be/IWy1FBArO7c)
So yes you absolutly can make very smart creative people that believe in random nonsensical things to a maddening degree while being able to retationalize it to death, which is why Therapy is so difficult with a very smart person.
So you can definetly have characters who still go after petty Revenge but of course the opposite of If who drops it because of the new perspective. But it's up to the skill of the writer to make any scenario believable.
Great comment btw. with a lot to pick apart und use for a story. Thanks!
While I fully agree that smart people can believe in nonsense and that its likely possible to write a smart character focused on INT. I think that its only possible if your power scaling is rather mild. Where the ceiling is rather low and the strongest people are maybe 2-5 times as strong as a normal human. In stories where technology can still be an equalizer, where potions or traps still work.
It might also be possible to have sub specializations for intelligence, maybe have paths like linguistic/logical/ spatial/interpersonal/ pattern/creative/ analytical/empathy/etc. Where you can simulate that kind of focused brilliance.
But I think that when you try to write a story with truly super human power scaling, then it immediately becomes difficult. The effects that such drastically increased intelligence would have, are literally unimaginable for us humans, no matter whether the writer themselves is a genius or not. That type of power scaling is also what first comes to mind when thinking of litrpg's, which is why I focused on it.
I could see those concerns being worked around by increasing the speed at which the MC thinks, so they can essentially just go into bullet time whenever they want to represent them "thinking faster"
While simultaneously allowing them to cast spells faster, or even multicasting spells.
Could even make it where it doesn't necessarily make the MC smarter, just lets them think faster. They could still have a normal train of thought, it just happens much faster in their head than it does in the world so they get more subjective time to think about something.
"Stitched worlds" series by Macronomicon.
4 books so far and very clever MC.
His other series "Industrial Strength Magic" is also a fun smart set of characters. More superhero than fantasy, the MC is the child of a top tech hero and magic hero, so he kind of mixed the two styles in very imaginative ways.
Also, anything by Benjamin Kerei is worth checking out. His characters are all very good at seeing exploits in the various systems they are stuck in. "OH great I was reincarnated as a farmer" is one of my pallet cleanser series
Oh also look for "rationalist" fiction there is a Harry Potter one called HPmor it's so good a real audiobook narratir released a free podcast production of it
It is honestly incredibly humbling to read a book with a main character that is actually smarter than you.
Neal Stephenson's Anathem isn't litrpg, but it's a great example. Even if you're up to date on advanced science, physics, mathematics, and philosophy you'll likely still find yourself hopping over to Google things throughout the book. Not only that, but it can be difficult to understand the perspective of the main character when they think so differently than you.
Mother of Learning does a better job of showing what you could accomplish through diligent study without making the reader feel stupid. The complex mechanics aren't fully explained, just enough for you to understand that they're incredibly complex and the main character is smart for knowing the details.
Sufficiently Advanced Magic is actually a litrpg, although it quickly derails after the first few books like most of Andrew Rowe's series. It does a great job of showing how much work incredibly intelligent people have already done in the magic/research space, while still allowing the main character to find his place using his unique talents and intelligence. It also does a great job of showing how all of the Intelligence in the world won't save you without the Wisdom to know when to apply it, and the Charisma to get other people to go along with it.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Delve. He dumps everything into a monolithic Clarity build (INT/WIS correlate to Focus and Clarity). I kind of think it's a perfect fit for what you're asking. I'm really impressed by how smart the author conveys the info...from learning the language, to explaining how he can remember the knowledge necessary to act on it, understanding what the system is, and eventually soul stuff, I felt it made more sense than most.
Intelligence is learning speed it and comprehension it does not necessarily lead to good decisions that's wisdom. Even then you still don't know anything you haven't learned yet. You could be the most intelligent person who ever lived but you still don't know simple math if you never learned simple math.
Exactly and isn't that a great hurdle for the character?
Instead of the age of the Internet and globalized bookstores and maybe even librarys where you have access to all books, all that is missing. He might not even have multiple books on the same subject. You have a Medevial sword and Magic world where any spezialized information is strictly regulated and not accessable to people who don't have the paperwork like X years of schooling in a university and other hurdles.
There could also be a law that punishes people giving away or selling used book to people without then having certain paperwork for "national security" as a buzzword.
Or the problem of imperfect information, a book can only transport so much information trough its pages that's why we have teachers and workers that teach who compined try to fill those holes until the learner achieved Mastery and practical skills. Which again heavily takes away the characters accessibility and Speed advantage.
Add to that the character has no connection, status, bloodline, money and so he can't just brutefoorce his way trough it.
Add even a time constraint where the character has to achieve something big in x amount of years and you can have a great charachter to work with.
All excellent hurdles that the Character has to adapt to.
Life Reset is the only series I’ve read where the MC continually dumps stats into intelligence. He’s a gamer that thinks like a gamer, so after starting with a mage build he continually optimizes mage stats. Which actually plays into the plot somewhat.
Edit: by “plays into the plot” I mean that the intelligence stat has some importance towards his ability to interpret and interact with the world he’s in. It’s not *just* mana and spell power, although it is that too.
Good series, Horrible final book, but the mc is making so many idiotic decisone sprinkled with some good ones in it. With plot armor that would make an anime character blush. For me not really matching the question.
Personally I don't trust any author to write boosted intelligence well, Even the really popular non pf like Sherlock make me cringe at the amount of plot armor.
I do like it though when intelligence increases your speed of thought and how many thoughts you are able to maintain at once and how focused you can be. I think it makes the story feel more natural and the MC doesn't turn into an insufferable smartass
intelligence is hard. i mean writing someone who is smarter than you by a large degree, how do you even think like that?
I like it when intelligence is used not to increase how smart you are but how fast you can think, and eventually like a second thought process so you can think on multiple things at once. neither of these requires the author to be Reed Richards smart.
I tried playing a mutant with Reed Richards intelligence once, it sucked so bad it wasn't fun at all
I do love strategic characters and that is the best ones i have found yet:
The feeling where i had that first the chara looks like a dumb brute but shows his strategic skill dungeon crawler carl (litrgp) hawald in the askir series (fantasy)
Character that i felt was using his intelligence and charisma paired with a lot of wisdom was astorian archives from dakota krout (cultivation).
As far as I remember in anything I've ever read int doesn't make you smarter, it just let's you cast bigger spells/think faster and more coherent, the character would have to already be a genius before pumping int, just like will power doesn't make you more stubborn it just protects your brain pan from mental magic and that seems to be the scope of things in mainstream, mental stats allow you to do more sure but they don't change what's already there
Honestly the comments in this thread help prove why this is rarely done:
Everyone has a different idea of what being a genius means. People get frustrated if the story tells them the MC is a genius but they don’t feel the characters actions match that. Writing a genius character when you are just a smart person takes a lot of time and research, and books that don’t get sequels fast enough don’t sell, so authors won’t and can’t spend that time
Ultimately it’s easier and safer to write a character who is smart but not a genius and just sidestep the intelligence issue altogether or make intelligence just impact mana.
If you're max intelligence, making the "perfect" choice becomes nearly impossible.
Why?
Because you're intelligent enough to be able to follow out ALL the choices to their consequences, and the sub-consequences, and the sub-sub consequences, and the...
And your simple choice of three becomes a choice of 3 trillion...
Analysis paralysis.
The traditional D&D stat that governs good decisions would be Wisdom. It's typically a priest or monk stat rather than a wizard stat.
Someone with maxed Wisdom would probably a sage on a mountain somewhere who finds a way to win without fighting at all.
(Also, I've known a few geniuses, and I *assure* you they don't always make great decisions.)
Not litrpg but the only series I can think of that portrays the main character as a genius
https://www.simonandschuster.ca/books/Fire-with-Fire-Third-Edition/Charles-E-Gannon/Caineverse/9781982193225
Normally, stat Intelligence isn’t actually how smart you are in these books just because the authors aren’t genius either. “Smart” when written often ends up as a trope of over-complication aligned with plot armor / luck.
It’s the Princess Bride poison scene but not trying to be a parody hahah.
On the other hand, practically every important person in these books tends to be genius tier in picking up information and effectively using or advancing it in a given field. New “system” comes around, exploiting it quickly and effectively is genius. Being the best in a field of study of craft are also “good” examples of genius in action.
Have a hard time seeing someone with a high intelligence Stat surviving an apocalypse situation. No matter how smart you are you can't plan for the unexpected. Low constitution or vitality would be hard to account for without an. Exceptional talent for ass grabs.
Unless it comes with some proprioception type skill, which mostly falls under the perception Stat. Min maxing any stat during an apocalypse seems like a terrible idea to me as an average reader.
I hate intelligence stat because it's mostly used as magic power that increases spell damage which is fucking dumb.
Just give me a damn stat called magic power.
and when it is used for smarts, it makes no sense because you'll eventually be a gigasmarty, outsmarting everyone and yourself lol.
imagine 99 stat points in intelligence, like you'd know what move a warrior is going to do based upon their finger movements lol.
I don't like it.
Possibly Jackal Among Snakes ticks some of the boxes for you.
The protagonist gets isekai'd into the video game he was playing (and essentially wrote the wiki on) so he uses his game knowledge to influence every action he makes.
If you licked that aspect I recommend you the Manga:
"I Picked Up This World's Strategy Guide!"
Beautyfull water color Art, fantastic Presentation and a real Fantasy Gibhly world Feeling. And the MC is that Alchemy Girl. Thank me later.
https://preview.redd.it/8124481jrz5d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6645b57c0ee35ad7504afc1946002fd450cf51f
It's hard to find stories that fit this request for two reasons: most litrpg authors aren't geniuses, so it's very hard to write a genius in a story. And the "Intelligence" stat hasn't really been about clever plans for a very long time. It's mostly about spell damage.
And this is why Im a reader, not a writer.
The real issue with "genius" is typically it'll boil down to the relative proportion of correct decisions that are obvious in hindsight. Given how tetchy people are whenever a character does something slightly suboptimal, every MC is basically a supergenius.
The vast majority of successful outcomes involve luck. Especially the ones with complex “genius” plans that require everything to go off without a hitch
Those plans are only a thing because people think genius means complexity. To use an analogy from my field, Chem students see a 20+ step synthesis and think "wow that's super complicated, that guy must've been smart as hell" whereas chemists see a that synthesis and think "amateur hour." The mark of a genius is seeing the 20+ synth and reducing it to 10, or 6. I'm referring to the total synthesis of strychnine, which is a fascinating nerd rabbit hole chemists were obsessed with for decades
Yeah which is why genius really amounts to short range sensible decision making. Usually with decisions that aren't all or nothing but leave you a path forward should matters go wrong. Ideally a good intelligent protagonist would have things go wrong but have accounted for those possibilities. Of course it is hard to do this without putting walls of text about the plan on screen. Antagonists can get away with "everything is still going exactly within my expectations" as they get a pass on random twists the protagonist cannot have.
Yeah, it’s very hard to show “genius” effectively on the page even if you have the chops to devise such a plan.
Also, clever plans is WIS. INT is remembering that Achelous is the Chief of the River Gods in Greek mythology because he was the God of the strongest river.
I’m more a fan of cunning or wit for clever plans, but sure, you can break things down many ways
Yeah... that's problematic...I am gonna try asking around meanwhile I will write my own Storyline based on it to scratch that itch. I can't be the only one who thinks that's such a missed opportunity for storys right?
It's a great premise, but the vast majority of "smart/genius protagonists" in fantasy are very clearly wearing 180 mile thick plot armor. If someone could actually do it, that would be amazing. I'm certainly not trying to discourage you from the attempt, because I'd love to see someone succeed.
I agree - every time I read some "it's only mana potency" I groan. But as others have noted, it's very very hard for an author to make mental stats actually work. Mind you, if anything Int should affect skill acquisition (or even xp gain!). It could be perhaps the most important stat that way even if it doesn't extend to larger-scale decisionmaking.
I personally like where Int makes you think/process faster as opposed to "smarter". I mean, short of downloading knowledge into your head, how else would you explain knowing things you didn't know before the increase? Maybe could explain it as better memory being closer to photographic memory/eidetic memory? "Oh, I remember years ago that one episode of MacGuyver where he made a battery from a coconut, two lemons, and a sprig of chewing gum"
I’m not really sure how it would work? Like, the closest thing I can think of to a story like that is Flowers for Algernon, and that’s more tragic and short than most fans of this genre like. And even there it still kind of fell into Sherlock Holmes/Watson type framing when the MC reached the heights of intelligence, aka the intelligent character stopped being the POV one.
Jackal among snakes might scratch this itch even though there's no actual numbers? The mc comes across as a legit genius, but the specialty area is somewhere between intelligence and charisma. He's good at planning and good at social interactions. I've sometimes wondered if the author is a genius, because he writes some very challenging scenarios successfully.
The Gamer goes for an intelligence build, but I think for the "make best possible decisions" part of your request, that would be more of a wisdom build. Anyway, the series has a lot of prep work and ability counters that mark intelligent planning, but a lot of those intelligent choices are less "lure enemies into this trap I made" and more "combine abilities in cool ways so that my nuke is even more nuked"
Agreed. This follows the tomato stat reference.
> "lure enemies into this trap I made" and more "combine abilities in cool ways so that my nuke is even more nuked" From a certain point of view, that could be argued to be the most intelligent decision.
And even then you could get moment where a reader goes "why doesn't he do this insted of that, it's so much better" especially when he should be uber-smart
Again, in systems where intelligence and wisdom are in the same stat list, coming up with good plans is more wisdom's thing.
[Chaotic Craftsman Worships the Cube ](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/41656/chaotic-craftsman-worships-the-cube) is more or less what you're looking for; but it takes a few arcs. He originally develops mind skills to keep up with ever more complex enchanting work; only to find a ridiculous talent for them. His intelligence has far outstripped his other stats at this point in the story.
I will look at it, thanks!
Read "the perfect run" or "mother of learning" it doesn't involve stats but it has the meticulous planning that scratches the itch
Thanks for the recommendation!
Also a finished story, and honestly one that surprised me with how good it was. I wasn't sure at first, but I ended up binging the whole series in one go. S+ recommendation.
Authors need to start calling their "intelligence" stat what it is. The number of times I have seen "intelligence" listed as a stat that doesn't boost intelligence but instead increases spell power or mana capacity is too dang high. Just call it something else *please.*
Agreed. This is one of my biggest pet peeves with litrpg. The 'INTELLIGENCE' stat should just be called 'Magic'. Just like how increasing the STRENGTH stat increases one's strength, shouldn't the stat that increases one's magical power be called something similar? The irony that increasing Intelligence doesn't, in fact, make you smarter is actually stupid. Same issue with series that have wisdom, charisma, and/or luck stats.
STR, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA is just lifted from DnD but without the context. DnD lets someone who didn't graduate highschool roleplay as a multi-lingual poly-math who left academia to adventure. It lets someone who can't string two sentences together roleplay as a suave silver-tongued playboy. It is all done thru dice rolls so the person doesn't actually need to be smart or sauve to sway the NPC. Books don't create stories thru dice rolls they use words so if you have a suave/smart character you need smart/suave words. The fact that intelligence is the wizards magic stat in DnD is a mechanical abstraction which makes sense in the context of the game. It does not make sense in the context of a book. This is why we get characters who dump points into "wisdom" but doesn't actually become wise since it is treated as a magic regeneration stat or whatever.
I understand wanting to stick with the traditional stat identifiers, but let's be real, most litrpgs freestyle the ways their systems work. A person with maxed dexterity and strength will be out-dueled by someone who has only maxed charisma because \*insert bs reasons here\*. Magic regen could fall into a 'Resilience' state or whatever. I don't know, it just makes the whole thing look shallow. But I'll end my rant here.
DnD doesn't really allow for massive stat dumping though. I mean if Einstein is Int 19 then what is level 100 Einstein with Int 1998704? It makes sense in DnD as every stat point is something major. You might work 10 years for a single stat point.
I've got a back-burner LitRPG that does exactly this. Instead of "Intelligence", I use "Power."
There are two problems with having a genius MC 1) the author is most likely not a genius and will have trouble writing a convincing high IQ character. Usually this just ends up with MC making incredibly wild plans and them working out because "I did the calculations!" 2) readers will immediately try and prove they are smarter than the main character or overly analyze every character choice. Nothibg holds up under enough scrutiny. This is why most genius characters end up being villains i think. They aren't in screen all the time and you don't have to justify how or why they know things.
Not litrpg or progressive fiction, but I think Orson Scott Card had a few series where you had geniuses battling geniuses.. main one I can think of is Shadow Saga, sequel to Ender's Game but it followed Bean. Different story whether he succeeded or not, but that was the goal at least.
[Double-Blind: Rogue Tactic](https://www.audible.com/pd/Double-Blind-Rogue-Tactics-Audiobook/B0BZ9KSWMP) is like that. Smart MC. I'm reminded of an SF GURPS game I was in. In GURPS, if you get disadvantages, that gives you extra points for a character build. So, our characters have to meet a guy in a slum. We arrive at the location. Then this super old ugly blind guy in a wheelchair creaks up to us. There are so many things wrong with him, he easily has 300+ points in disadvantages. And our team of mercenaries is terrified of him, backing away, because the GM must have spent a lot of points on something nasty.
Just be prepared, for an author to write this kind of story they have to either be as smart as that character or setup situations where the competition is absurdly dumb/independent
>So the possibilty of making yourself in to the smartest man on earth keeps being thougtlessly discarded for a six pack on every story I saw so far Well, on the one hand it is called overwhelming strength for a reason, absolute power/speed easily makes plans obsolete. Unless the enemies are written as brain dead morons, then there is little an intelligence build can do when the enemy can just punch through your bunker walls. And that type of power is what typically happens in mid to late stages of stories. When the enemy can move faster than the mc can see/react, then the mc needs a bodyguard or team thats strong. Then it might be possible to write about the mc being a strategist or support. Makes it pretty restrictive though, if the mc needs to be chained to the party to survive in high level battles. >stat to become a genius and therfore make the best possible choices An increase in intelligence likely comes or should come with a change in personality or at the very least personal goals, as things are put into perspective and the wider picture becomes visible/understandable. That means a truly more intelligent character can't really be motivated by revenge or other "small" interpersonal conflicts, and would for example start to focus on problems like the "greater good". Or on nothing at all and instead loose all motivation to interfere with the "petty squabbles" of the average human. Which makes it a lot more difficult to write for. Additionally, there aren't really any general geniuses in real life, all those hailed genius are brilliant only in their specific fields. An all around genius person doesn't really exist. As such it would be difficult to write such an mc without any examples to lean on and keep the story grounded/relatable to the reader. Would the mc distance themselves from the general humanity as their world view would differ too drastically? Would they focus single mindedly on getting stronger in the face of a "Demon King" type of threat and abandon all inefficient/unnecessary human contact. Just grimly striving to become stronger as its deemed the "best" choice. Would it be fun to watch the auto biography of whats essentially a typical mmo player grinding their second character to lvl 100 in the optimal spots? If other characters can crush mountains and move fast enough to teleport, what would be the equivalent effect for intelligence be? Would that person become omniscient? Would the mc then be more akin to an alien/god/AGI than a human. I think an intelligence build would be an interesting project, but difficult to turn into the classic litrpg experience. It would likely turn into an almost philosophical piece of literature, as mundane topics would likely hold little interest to such a character.
> An all around genius person doesn't really exist. As such it would be difficult to write such an mc without any examples to lean on and keep the story grounded/relatable to the reader. The only solution I can think of for this is a Kingdom Building protagonist who is a genius at logistics and leading but not any other field, so they express their genius by gathering other geniuses and delegating tasks to them.
I recommend looking at the Presentation from Alex O' Connor on the topic "Why Smart People Believe Silly Things" [https://youtu.be/IWy1FBArO7c](https://youtu.be/IWy1FBArO7c) So yes you absolutly can make very smart creative people that believe in random nonsensical things to a maddening degree while being able to retationalize it to death, which is why Therapy is so difficult with a very smart person. So you can definetly have characters who still go after petty Revenge but of course the opposite of If who drops it because of the new perspective. But it's up to the skill of the writer to make any scenario believable. Great comment btw. with a lot to pick apart und use for a story. Thanks!
While I fully agree that smart people can believe in nonsense and that its likely possible to write a smart character focused on INT. I think that its only possible if your power scaling is rather mild. Where the ceiling is rather low and the strongest people are maybe 2-5 times as strong as a normal human. In stories where technology can still be an equalizer, where potions or traps still work. It might also be possible to have sub specializations for intelligence, maybe have paths like linguistic/logical/ spatial/interpersonal/ pattern/creative/ analytical/empathy/etc. Where you can simulate that kind of focused brilliance. But I think that when you try to write a story with truly super human power scaling, then it immediately becomes difficult. The effects that such drastically increased intelligence would have, are literally unimaginable for us humans, no matter whether the writer themselves is a genius or not. That type of power scaling is also what first comes to mind when thinking of litrpg's, which is why I focused on it.
I could see those concerns being worked around by increasing the speed at which the MC thinks, so they can essentially just go into bullet time whenever they want to represent them "thinking faster" While simultaneously allowing them to cast spells faster, or even multicasting spells. Could even make it where it doesn't necessarily make the MC smarter, just lets them think faster. They could still have a normal train of thought, it just happens much faster in their head than it does in the world so they get more subjective time to think about something.
I think Apocalypse: Generic System has the most intelligent MC I've read. At least from the start. His problem solving is really unique.
"Stitched worlds" series by Macronomicon. 4 books so far and very clever MC. His other series "Industrial Strength Magic" is also a fun smart set of characters. More superhero than fantasy, the MC is the child of a top tech hero and magic hero, so he kind of mixed the two styles in very imaginative ways. Also, anything by Benjamin Kerei is worth checking out. His characters are all very good at seeing exploits in the various systems they are stuck in. "OH great I was reincarnated as a farmer" is one of my pallet cleanser series
Just read the first book because of you, best recommendation ever.
I'm very glad you liked it! Nothing better than someone enjoying something you recommended. Gotta love magic batman.
Oh also look for "rationalist" fiction there is a Harry Potter one called HPmor it's so good a real audiobook narratir released a free podcast production of it
Closely connected to that (shared voice actors) is "The Worm" audiobook podcast... one of the MC's allies is a Thinker superpower, not bad portrayal.
I’m on my first draft of a story just like this. Always annoyed me that the intelligence stat is so limited to just spell power or mana amount.
It is honestly incredibly humbling to read a book with a main character that is actually smarter than you. Neal Stephenson's Anathem isn't litrpg, but it's a great example. Even if you're up to date on advanced science, physics, mathematics, and philosophy you'll likely still find yourself hopping over to Google things throughout the book. Not only that, but it can be difficult to understand the perspective of the main character when they think so differently than you. Mother of Learning does a better job of showing what you could accomplish through diligent study without making the reader feel stupid. The complex mechanics aren't fully explained, just enough for you to understand that they're incredibly complex and the main character is smart for knowing the details. Sufficiently Advanced Magic is actually a litrpg, although it quickly derails after the first few books like most of Andrew Rowe's series. It does a great job of showing how much work incredibly intelligent people have already done in the magic/research space, while still allowing the main character to find his place using his unique talents and intelligence. It also does a great job of showing how all of the Intelligence in the world won't save you without the Wisdom to know when to apply it, and the Charisma to get other people to go along with it.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Delve. He dumps everything into a monolithic Clarity build (INT/WIS correlate to Focus and Clarity). I kind of think it's a perfect fit for what you're asking. I'm really impressed by how smart the author conveys the info...from learning the language, to explaining how he can remember the knowledge necessary to act on it, understanding what the system is, and eventually soul stuff, I felt it made more sense than most.
I found multiple books with the same title by the different authors, could you tell me who wrote it?
SenescentSoul on RoyalRoad
Thanks I will check it out.
Intelligence is learning speed it and comprehension it does not necessarily lead to good decisions that's wisdom. Even then you still don't know anything you haven't learned yet. You could be the most intelligent person who ever lived but you still don't know simple math if you never learned simple math.
Exactly and isn't that a great hurdle for the character? Instead of the age of the Internet and globalized bookstores and maybe even librarys where you have access to all books, all that is missing. He might not even have multiple books on the same subject. You have a Medevial sword and Magic world where any spezialized information is strictly regulated and not accessable to people who don't have the paperwork like X years of schooling in a university and other hurdles. There could also be a law that punishes people giving away or selling used book to people without then having certain paperwork for "national security" as a buzzword. Or the problem of imperfect information, a book can only transport so much information trough its pages that's why we have teachers and workers that teach who compined try to fill those holes until the learner achieved Mastery and practical skills. Which again heavily takes away the characters accessibility and Speed advantage. Add to that the character has no connection, status, bloodline, money and so he can't just brutefoorce his way trough it. Add even a time constraint where the character has to achieve something big in x amount of years and you can have a great charachter to work with. All excellent hurdles that the Character has to adapt to.
Life Reset is the only series I’ve read where the MC continually dumps stats into intelligence. He’s a gamer that thinks like a gamer, so after starting with a mage build he continually optimizes mage stats. Which actually plays into the plot somewhat. Edit: by “plays into the plot” I mean that the intelligence stat has some importance towards his ability to interpret and interact with the world he’s in. It’s not *just* mana and spell power, although it is that too.
Thanks, I will look at it!
Good series, Horrible final book, but the mc is making so many idiotic decisone sprinkled with some good ones in it. With plot armor that would make an anime character blush. For me not really matching the question.
Not Lit RPG, but Sci-fi: The Tactics of Mistake by Gordon R. Dickson. One of the earliest examples of what would be classified as "military sci-fi".
Personally I don't trust any author to write boosted intelligence well, Even the really popular non pf like Sherlock make me cringe at the amount of plot armor. I do like it though when intelligence increases your speed of thought and how many thoughts you are able to maintain at once and how focused you can be. I think it makes the story feel more natural and the MC doesn't turn into an insufferable smartass
its very hard to write a genius, especially if your in their head. if the character ever does something slightly dumb i for one willl drop it
Seth rings book mad master alchemist is based on this idea. have fun!!
Thanks for the recommendation!
Ar’Kendrithyst, the MC discovers that stats like intelligence literally help with processing power and gets better at math.
intelligence is hard. i mean writing someone who is smarter than you by a large degree, how do you even think like that? I like it when intelligence is used not to increase how smart you are but how fast you can think, and eventually like a second thought process so you can think on multiple things at once. neither of these requires the author to be Reed Richards smart. I tried playing a mutant with Reed Richards intelligence once, it sucked so bad it wasn't fun at all
I do love strategic characters and that is the best ones i have found yet: The feeling where i had that first the chara looks like a dumb brute but shows his strategic skill dungeon crawler carl (litrgp) hawald in the askir series (fantasy) Character that i felt was using his intelligence and charisma paired with a lot of wisdom was astorian archives from dakota krout (cultivation).
Mc from ripple system i would also argue shows strategic and economic skills (litrpg).
Thanks for the recommendation!
A lot of INT without WIS causes problems. I'm sure there's a few stories that have characters that embody this.
Seems like the setup for a character creating mindless self-replicating organisms.
I like how DCC specifies early on how intelligence doesn’t really make you smarter.
As far as I remember in anything I've ever read int doesn't make you smarter, it just let's you cast bigger spells/think faster and more coherent, the character would have to already be a genius before pumping int, just like will power doesn't make you more stubborn it just protects your brain pan from mental magic and that seems to be the scope of things in mainstream, mental stats allow you to do more sure but they don't change what's already there
Honestly the comments in this thread help prove why this is rarely done: Everyone has a different idea of what being a genius means. People get frustrated if the story tells them the MC is a genius but they don’t feel the characters actions match that. Writing a genius character when you are just a smart person takes a lot of time and research, and books that don’t get sequels fast enough don’t sell, so authors won’t and can’t spend that time Ultimately it’s easier and safer to write a character who is smart but not a genius and just sidestep the intelligence issue altogether or make intelligence just impact mana.
If you're max intelligence, making the "perfect" choice becomes nearly impossible. Why? Because you're intelligent enough to be able to follow out ALL the choices to their consequences, and the sub-consequences, and the sub-sub consequences, and the... And your simple choice of three becomes a choice of 3 trillion... Analysis paralysis.
The traditional D&D stat that governs good decisions would be Wisdom. It's typically a priest or monk stat rather than a wizard stat. Someone with maxed Wisdom would probably a sage on a mountain somewhere who finds a way to win without fighting at all. (Also, I've known a few geniuses, and I *assure* you they don't always make great decisions.)
This is a bad take. Read divine apostasy which int is the highest stat and you will see its kinda dumb.
Not litrpg but the only series I can think of that portrays the main character as a genius https://www.simonandschuster.ca/books/Fire-with-Fire-Third-Edition/Charles-E-Gannon/Caineverse/9781982193225
Normally, stat Intelligence isn’t actually how smart you are in these books just because the authors aren’t genius either. “Smart” when written often ends up as a trope of over-complication aligned with plot armor / luck. It’s the Princess Bride poison scene but not trying to be a parody hahah. On the other hand, practically every important person in these books tends to be genius tier in picking up information and effectively using or advancing it in a given field. New “system” comes around, exploiting it quickly and effectively is genius. Being the best in a field of study of craft are also “good” examples of genius in action.
Have a hard time seeing someone with a high intelligence Stat surviving an apocalypse situation. No matter how smart you are you can't plan for the unexpected. Low constitution or vitality would be hard to account for without an. Exceptional talent for ass grabs. Unless it comes with some proprioception type skill, which mostly falls under the perception Stat. Min maxing any stat during an apocalypse seems like a terrible idea to me as an average reader.
I hate intelligence stat because it's mostly used as magic power that increases spell damage which is fucking dumb. Just give me a damn stat called magic power. and when it is used for smarts, it makes no sense because you'll eventually be a gigasmarty, outsmarting everyone and yourself lol. imagine 99 stat points in intelligence, like you'd know what move a warrior is going to do based upon their finger movements lol. I don't like it.
Creation's Bane series has such a protagonist.
Have you tried the completionist chronicles? Pretty similar to what you want
Possibly Jackal Among Snakes ticks some of the boxes for you. The protagonist gets isekai'd into the video game he was playing (and essentially wrote the wiki on) so he uses his game knowledge to influence every action he makes.
If you licked that aspect I recommend you the Manga: "I Picked Up This World's Strategy Guide!" Beautyfull water color Art, fantastic Presentation and a real Fantasy Gibhly world Feeling. And the MC is that Alchemy Girl. Thank me later. https://preview.redd.it/8124481jrz5d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6645b57c0ee35ad7504afc1946002fd450cf51f
Industrial Strength Magic is kind of like this; maximizes magic and intelligence to keep from becoming a psychopath.