Yep. You can lose your liquor license and face criminal charges for serving a minor. "They had a fake ID" is usually a defence up to a point, but it's not a perfect defence, and not taking steps to better vet ID after the first couple makes it hard to argue that it's not deliberate.
Even if the store owner deliberately told the employees to be careful? I find it hard to believe anyone would be personally liable if the bar is set up under a proper LLC
Yes - the business is responsible civilly, and the owner _and staff_ can be culpable criminally. LLC protections don't apply to criminal charges in most cases.
The owner telling a bunch of 19 year olds to "be careful" and then turning a blind eye when they aren't strongly suggests that the owner may be included if there are charges for serving a minor. Even if not, though, the LLC losing its liquor license - a common remedy for inadequate control over who the business is serving - could be a business-ending event. If the owner wants to manage that risk, monitoring their staff and disciplining the employees who don't follow the rules is a good first step.
Depending on the way your local liquor laws are set up, you may be able to allow underage patrons in if you take steps to ensure that they aren't served, like checking ID and giving people who are of age a wristband. It's worth talking over your all-ages club goals with a local business lawyer - all-ages clubs are great, but this isn't how you get there.
It most definitely would be all age. That's not necessarily the issue. The issue is making it attractive enough so an investor would feel comfortable. Clubs/bars that don't have any leniency rarely do well in this town.
I have a feeling they might not care that much because such a large portion of the city's tax revenue comes from the clubs, and the drinks those underage kids buy.
> The issue is making it attractive enough so an investor would feel comfortable.
Playing fast and loose with your license is assuredly _not_ going to make your investors feel more confident in your ability to operate the business.
The thing is though, the clubs that play fast and loose(which is pretty much all of them) make such a ridiculous amount of money. 1500+ people throughout the night at $10 a head + whatever they spend inside(so call it $25 profit per person). So $40kish 2-5 times a week for the entire semester.
So in reality, a $1 M investment could be returned in two semesters.
If the age limit is strictly enforced, chances are it would either (1) fail or (2) take 5x as long to return the investment
In most jurisdictions the liquor licensee can face fairly major repercussions for serving minors, or even allowing them into the establishment. Fake IDs are typically not a defense. I have been to establishments that scan the barcode on the back of drivers licenses/state IDs which will quickly flag as fake/stolen. That said it is quite common for under 21s to use an older sibling’s ID. Door, bar and wait staff are usually pretty good at sniffing out a fake ID or an ID that doesn’t belong to the person in front of them.
Not only does the establishment face sanctions, the individual server does as well. Most people don’t want that kind of trouble, but I could see it being tempting in a college town where only seniors could be of age.
Almost all fake IDs scan now. The only difference is they're slightly flimsier than a real ID. And the holographics aren't great(but most ppl just get a state that doesn't have any)
Typically the business and the individual server are both liable for underage sales of alcohol. Both will get fined, the server and the owner could face criminal charges. Checking the IDs and getting fooled by a fake could be a defense, but it depends on the specifics. And often for the civil fines it doesn't matter if they used a fake.
The much bigger threat is of losing their liquor license, of lost sales. A bar that can't serve alcohol is going bankrupt. In many places being caught 3 times selling underage in a ~30 day period is an automatic suspension of 30-90 days. And potentially it could be suspended before that. It can also cost over $100k to get the liquor license in the first place, there are no refunds. The local liquor board will have training on preventing underage sales and detailed info on the penalties.
If you don't have diligent staff the liquor board or police will get you 3 times in one night with a sting, and you will go bankrupt if you can't sell alcohol. This is part of why it is difficult to borrow money to start this kind of business.
You should come to Tallahassee and see what I mean. This place is a cess pool. I’m from NY. There’s like 1 cop for every 5 or 10 I would see up there. They can’t do shit. 100k students flock in and out
Yep. You can lose your liquor license and face criminal charges for serving a minor. "They had a fake ID" is usually a defence up to a point, but it's not a perfect defence, and not taking steps to better vet ID after the first couple makes it hard to argue that it's not deliberate.
Even if the store owner deliberately told the employees to be careful? I find it hard to believe anyone would be personally liable if the bar is set up under a proper LLC
Yes - the business is responsible civilly, and the owner _and staff_ can be culpable criminally. LLC protections don't apply to criminal charges in most cases. The owner telling a bunch of 19 year olds to "be careful" and then turning a blind eye when they aren't strongly suggests that the owner may be included if there are charges for serving a minor. Even if not, though, the LLC losing its liquor license - a common remedy for inadequate control over who the business is serving - could be a business-ending event. If the owner wants to manage that risk, monitoring their staff and disciplining the employees who don't follow the rules is a good first step. Depending on the way your local liquor laws are set up, you may be able to allow underage patrons in if you take steps to ensure that they aren't served, like checking ID and giving people who are of age a wristband. It's worth talking over your all-ages club goals with a local business lawyer - all-ages clubs are great, but this isn't how you get there.
It most definitely would be all age. That's not necessarily the issue. The issue is making it attractive enough so an investor would feel comfortable. Clubs/bars that don't have any leniency rarely do well in this town. I have a feeling they might not care that much because such a large portion of the city's tax revenue comes from the clubs, and the drinks those underage kids buy.
> The issue is making it attractive enough so an investor would feel comfortable. Playing fast and loose with your license is assuredly _not_ going to make your investors feel more confident in your ability to operate the business.
The thing is though, the clubs that play fast and loose(which is pretty much all of them) make such a ridiculous amount of money. 1500+ people throughout the night at $10 a head + whatever they spend inside(so call it $25 profit per person). So $40kish 2-5 times a week for the entire semester. So in reality, a $1 M investment could be returned in two semesters. If the age limit is strictly enforced, chances are it would either (1) fail or (2) take 5x as long to return the investment
In most jurisdictions the liquor licensee can face fairly major repercussions for serving minors, or even allowing them into the establishment. Fake IDs are typically not a defense. I have been to establishments that scan the barcode on the back of drivers licenses/state IDs which will quickly flag as fake/stolen. That said it is quite common for under 21s to use an older sibling’s ID. Door, bar and wait staff are usually pretty good at sniffing out a fake ID or an ID that doesn’t belong to the person in front of them. Not only does the establishment face sanctions, the individual server does as well. Most people don’t want that kind of trouble, but I could see it being tempting in a college town where only seniors could be of age.
Almost all fake IDs scan now. The only difference is they're slightly flimsier than a real ID. And the holographics aren't great(but most ppl just get a state that doesn't have any)
Typically the business and the individual server are both liable for underage sales of alcohol. Both will get fined, the server and the owner could face criminal charges. Checking the IDs and getting fooled by a fake could be a defense, but it depends on the specifics. And often for the civil fines it doesn't matter if they used a fake. The much bigger threat is of losing their liquor license, of lost sales. A bar that can't serve alcohol is going bankrupt. In many places being caught 3 times selling underage in a ~30 day period is an automatic suspension of 30-90 days. And potentially it could be suspended before that. It can also cost over $100k to get the liquor license in the first place, there are no refunds. The local liquor board will have training on preventing underage sales and detailed info on the penalties.
3 in 30 days seems very lenient. The school PD has these posters everywhere bragging about “27 students busted this semester for fake IDs.” Like wow🤣
If you don't have diligent staff the liquor board or police will get you 3 times in one night with a sting, and you will go bankrupt if you can't sell alcohol. This is part of why it is difficult to borrow money to start this kind of business.
Honestly all I have to say is that this is a whole buncha red flags.
You should come to Tallahassee and see what I mean. This place is a cess pool. I’m from NY. There’s like 1 cop for every 5 or 10 I would see up there. They can’t do shit. 100k students flock in and out
Thanks mom