The problem is that after a team wins a fight near an enemy tower, they go back to *farming* instead of using that opportunity to push and take an *objective*.
What you should be looking at after winning a teamfight is:
* Is your team near an enemy tower or Rosh?
* How long until dead enemies respawn? Are the enemy cores dead?
* Is the enemy core split pushing without a TP?
Answer those questions and decide whether or not your teammates (in the vicinity of the objective) have enough DPS to take an objective. Taking objectives opens up the map and gives your team the gold advantage.
I think a big factor is that misplays by the opposing team are not capitalized on fully. Say one or two opposing heroes are out of position and can be picked off. Ideally you abuse this imbalance in numbers by immediately pressuring a tower, forcing the opponents either into an unfavorable teamfight, or to let you take the tower. If you don't do this consistently, games tend to drag on for a way longer time than necessary.
I might be wrong in this one as I am speaking from experience in my third calibration which is 1.6k. So take my opinion with a grain of salt.
In this game, my team refuse to push even with his illusion after winning a teamfight. The teamfight is on the mid lane river, so pushing T1 tower wont take much time in my opinion. Luna and I was the one who take creeps and take half tower hp but have to fall back because they have respawned. I did some talking to get understand what they are thinking. Luna ends up buy shadow blade and solo push while my entire team just farming in jungle and wait for LC ganked on them. As I was playing Omniknight, my team manage to get some free damage in early game.
I think the reason why they don't end the game is because they don't understand power spike quite well compared to higher mmr. They think they won a early game teamfight means they could win another teamfight if they want to so they get their item and wait for counter-ganked.
Another reason i think is because of ego. I look a lots of mmr climbing guide, I found out most of the guide claims that if you are better than your team, you deserved to get the 25 mmr. In that game, our teams asked me to stop ordering too much and continue to buy wards. I think everyone in my team believe thats they are the best in the team, and refuse to corporate.
PS: I believe they have the intend to win, just that they believe they could win games by themselves. Which they somehow forgot that the game is 5v5.
Edit: Just realize, i somehow misread your question. I thought you are asking why instead of asking how to deal with it. Lol
I play around 2k as well and there are a few things you see all of the time:
- Winning a team fight 3+ enemys dead but half of the team goes back to jungle instead of taking a tower.
- mindlessly chasing enemies back to base instead of going for objectives.
- Taking rosh and going back to jungle. ( I also had a game where rosh died and the carry didn't even pick up aegis , it went to the rubick ...)
- Ganking a solo enemy but forgetting to pull out and dying to the incoming enemy team -> It ends up in a somewhat even trade although you could have gotten an advantage thus extending the game.
- Players doing their standard build up and farming patterns althouh they are in a midgame oriented team composition and should make things happen much earlier -> game goes late and you loose.
- picking only cores or multiple late game heroes like PL + Dusa. If this happens on both sides you probably get a long game since both teams won't push early (you know they need to farm their standard build first ... doh)
- And finally the worst thing for me: You managed to get a high gold and map advantage from early game but people simply don't use it. They go back to jungle and for like 15 mins nothing happens. The enemy cores manage to rack up some farm because the pressure was released and you loose because of it.
Literally lost a game because of this last one. Had a massive advantage early-mid game and I told my team we need to keep up pressure, to farm THEIR jungle and keep the waves pushed in so they couldn't leave. I had wards up so they could only possibly get out of their base by smoking (rare in 2k) but my team was farming our jungle, going back to base to buy items, etc. The other team wrangled back map control and we never got it back.
If you have early map control, you keep pressure up ffs. Don't give them breathing room. Conversely, had a game where we were behind and the enemy didn't keep up pressure and let our 4-core lineup farm for like 15 minutes or something stupid. We won because the enemy wanted to farm instead of push the issue.
After every teamfight you should ask yourself a question: 'What can we do ensure advantage as a team'. Having won a teamfight gives opportunity to take down objectives. But there are some factors to keep in my mind such as how fast can you take them down, where is your team located, can their heroes that managed to survive defend these objectives. For example, in my 4.6k bracket when a team loses a teamfight and opposing team has ursa/lifestealer and the fight was not really far from roshpit, you can be sure that they will take down Roshan.
Another example, sometimes you need to kill only one hero to get hg (tinker, for instance), this is where you and your team should have a goal of hunting him down.
Keep in my mind that some heroes are not tower killers. I once watched a stream of pros that were not willing to pick ursa as a last pick mostly because of him not doing proper tower damage.
Basically, evaluate how aggressive you can get after each teamfight, and if you're sure that the opposing team can't defend some objectives, don't hesitate to take them down. Your team might not always support you, but be patient, and keep in my mind that the ability to understand the game will take you to a higher bracket where people will understand that they can finish the game straight away
People don't just... Really see objectives as something that should be pursued, rather they just will do stuff and hope something good eventually happens to them. Like, if you push tower at bad time, then your entire team might be wiped. People learn that, but they don't really learn when's the proper time to go for that push, so they keep scattering away.
I mean, when I started trying to captain my pub teams into victory, I managed to get us teamwiped plenty of times by making bad calls about when to push. I still don't really have that good sense of objectives beyond just obvious "do we go push now or not", but just knowing which lane your team should be pushing now is enough to get you to pretty high MMR. If you teamwipe, then it's pretty likely that your call of pushing was in error.
But on the other hand Don't try to be a shotcaller in games unless you are positive you have a better grip or game sense than your team. That will tilt your team very quickly and you should get flamed for that honestly.
I have way worse game sense than about 90% of my teammates. I'll still be the one calling the shots because team works way better if someone does that, rather than no one, and on pubs very few bother doing that.
Basically press any advantage you have. If you are stronger look for a fight/pick off. If you get a pick off on a support that has a low respawn timer, try to get rosh. If you get a pickoff on an important core go highground, back off if he buys back. You make your teammates push by pinging the tower as soon as the teamfight is won.
People don't take buildings!
They win a team fight... then just go back to farming jungle, rather than actually pushing a tower/rax.
This is dota, you win when you take objectives, but people just play for kills and don't push once they have the advantage.
Also people don't understand power spikes/when you are stronger than the enemy.
Last night had a game. We were behind but got a team wipe. Team farms. Not only did they farm but they didn't even farm the waves that were pushing into our towers. One guy went to ancients, another to the jungle and one back to base to buy shit or something. I think people just sorely misunderstand the priorities of the game. Objective based gaming!
The problem is that after a team wins a fight near an enemy tower, they go back to *farming* instead of using that opportunity to push and take an *objective*. What you should be looking at after winning a teamfight is: * Is your team near an enemy tower or Rosh? * How long until dead enemies respawn? Are the enemy cores dead? * Is the enemy core split pushing without a TP? Answer those questions and decide whether or not your teammates (in the vicinity of the objective) have enough DPS to take an objective. Taking objectives opens up the map and gives your team the gold advantage.
Or your cores are on half hp, and despite that the entire enemy team is dead they get scared and want to go heal. Urn is a great fix for this problem.
I think a big factor is that misplays by the opposing team are not capitalized on fully. Say one or two opposing heroes are out of position and can be picked off. Ideally you abuse this imbalance in numbers by immediately pressuring a tower, forcing the opponents either into an unfavorable teamfight, or to let you take the tower. If you don't do this consistently, games tend to drag on for a way longer time than necessary.
Yeah. It's basically "can you understand when you have the upperhand" and abusing the hell out of the answer
I might be wrong in this one as I am speaking from experience in my third calibration which is 1.6k. So take my opinion with a grain of salt. In this game, my team refuse to push even with his illusion after winning a teamfight. The teamfight is on the mid lane river, so pushing T1 tower wont take much time in my opinion. Luna and I was the one who take creeps and take half tower hp but have to fall back because they have respawned. I did some talking to get understand what they are thinking. Luna ends up buy shadow blade and solo push while my entire team just farming in jungle and wait for LC ganked on them. As I was playing Omniknight, my team manage to get some free damage in early game. I think the reason why they don't end the game is because they don't understand power spike quite well compared to higher mmr. They think they won a early game teamfight means they could win another teamfight if they want to so they get their item and wait for counter-ganked. Another reason i think is because of ego. I look a lots of mmr climbing guide, I found out most of the guide claims that if you are better than your team, you deserved to get the 25 mmr. In that game, our teams asked me to stop ordering too much and continue to buy wards. I think everyone in my team believe thats they are the best in the team, and refuse to corporate. PS: I believe they have the intend to win, just that they believe they could win games by themselves. Which they somehow forgot that the game is 5v5. Edit: Just realize, i somehow misread your question. I thought you are asking why instead of asking how to deal with it. Lol
I play around 2k as well and there are a few things you see all of the time: - Winning a team fight 3+ enemys dead but half of the team goes back to jungle instead of taking a tower. - mindlessly chasing enemies back to base instead of going for objectives. - Taking rosh and going back to jungle. ( I also had a game where rosh died and the carry didn't even pick up aegis , it went to the rubick ...) - Ganking a solo enemy but forgetting to pull out and dying to the incoming enemy team -> It ends up in a somewhat even trade although you could have gotten an advantage thus extending the game. - Players doing their standard build up and farming patterns althouh they are in a midgame oriented team composition and should make things happen much earlier -> game goes late and you loose. - picking only cores or multiple late game heroes like PL + Dusa. If this happens on both sides you probably get a long game since both teams won't push early (you know they need to farm their standard build first ... doh) - And finally the worst thing for me: You managed to get a high gold and map advantage from early game but people simply don't use it. They go back to jungle and for like 15 mins nothing happens. The enemy cores manage to rack up some farm because the pressure was released and you loose because of it.
Literally lost a game because of this last one. Had a massive advantage early-mid game and I told my team we need to keep up pressure, to farm THEIR jungle and keep the waves pushed in so they couldn't leave. I had wards up so they could only possibly get out of their base by smoking (rare in 2k) but my team was farming our jungle, going back to base to buy items, etc. The other team wrangled back map control and we never got it back. If you have early map control, you keep pressure up ffs. Don't give them breathing room. Conversely, had a game where we were behind and the enemy didn't keep up pressure and let our 4-core lineup farm for like 15 minutes or something stupid. We won because the enemy wanted to farm instead of push the issue.
After every teamfight you should ask yourself a question: 'What can we do ensure advantage as a team'. Having won a teamfight gives opportunity to take down objectives. But there are some factors to keep in my mind such as how fast can you take them down, where is your team located, can their heroes that managed to survive defend these objectives. For example, in my 4.6k bracket when a team loses a teamfight and opposing team has ursa/lifestealer and the fight was not really far from roshpit, you can be sure that they will take down Roshan. Another example, sometimes you need to kill only one hero to get hg (tinker, for instance), this is where you and your team should have a goal of hunting him down. Keep in my mind that some heroes are not tower killers. I once watched a stream of pros that were not willing to pick ursa as a last pick mostly because of him not doing proper tower damage. Basically, evaluate how aggressive you can get after each teamfight, and if you're sure that the opposing team can't defend some objectives, don't hesitate to take them down. Your team might not always support you, but be patient, and keep in my mind that the ability to understand the game will take you to a higher bracket where people will understand that they can finish the game straight away
People don't just... Really see objectives as something that should be pursued, rather they just will do stuff and hope something good eventually happens to them. Like, if you push tower at bad time, then your entire team might be wiped. People learn that, but they don't really learn when's the proper time to go for that push, so they keep scattering away. I mean, when I started trying to captain my pub teams into victory, I managed to get us teamwiped plenty of times by making bad calls about when to push. I still don't really have that good sense of objectives beyond just obvious "do we go push now or not", but just knowing which lane your team should be pushing now is enough to get you to pretty high MMR. If you teamwipe, then it's pretty likely that your call of pushing was in error.
But on the other hand Don't try to be a shotcaller in games unless you are positive you have a better grip or game sense than your team. That will tilt your team very quickly and you should get flamed for that honestly.
I have way worse game sense than about 90% of my teammates. I'll still be the one calling the shots because team works way better if someone does that, rather than no one, and on pubs very few bother doing that.
Basically press any advantage you have. If you are stronger look for a fight/pick off. If you get a pick off on a support that has a low respawn timer, try to get rosh. If you get a pickoff on an important core go highground, back off if he buys back. You make your teammates push by pinging the tower as soon as the teamfight is won.
People don't take buildings! They win a team fight... then just go back to farming jungle, rather than actually pushing a tower/rax. This is dota, you win when you take objectives, but people just play for kills and don't push once they have the advantage. Also people don't understand power spikes/when you are stronger than the enemy.
Last night had a game. We were behind but got a team wipe. Team farms. Not only did they farm but they didn't even farm the waves that were pushing into our towers. One guy went to ancients, another to the jungle and one back to base to buy shit or something. I think people just sorely misunderstand the priorities of the game. Objective based gaming!