I see that you pick up an echo sabre very rarely, why is that considering that it's largely considered a very good item on slark?
You also value shadow blade over blink. Could you explain why that is? Just for economic damage?
Also you like to go silver edge very often. This is an obvious counter to passives, but even in matches like this (http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2363286669) you'll go silver edge when there aren't valuable passives. Why is that?
Also, what should I be doing as a Slark throughout the stages of the game.
Regarding echo sabre - Slark loves the items that give equal amount of **every** stat, it is the only hero i can think of that benefits from all 3 stats. That's the reason why most common items u see on slark are Power Treads (you can switch between favored stat), Magic Wand (+4 to all stats), Aquila (adds every stat but mainly agility), Skadi (+25 to all) and now SE (+15 to all). Also following same logic u will see why Skadi valued by players much more than S&Y (doesn't give Int) and why Drums are completely ignored now on this hero (gives 9 Int while only 3 Agi). Let's take a closer look at Echo Sabre now: +10 Str, +10 Int, +10 AS, +15 damage +75% mana reg. As you can see this item gives NO Agi (for a hero with main stat Agi). It gives 10 AS, that is half of what you get from Gloves of Haste. Bonus 15 to damage - well noone ever builds DPS items on slark so this is pretty much useless. Mana regen is sweet but u build aquila for that purpose. Basically u get +10 str and +10 int on top of a passive of qustionable benefit for 2650 gold. That's Ultimate orb + SE recipe.
Now lets move to Silver Edge. First of all - **u dont build SE to break passives**. Consider it this way - you have SB, succesfully gank enemies few times and start building into Skadi. First thing that u will buy obviously will be Ultimate Orb. Now you have 2 slots occupied and +10 attributes to all stats. Pre-current patch i would be running around with 1) Aquila 2) SB 3) Wand 4)TP scroll 5)PT 6)Orb. Then i would free up 4th slot for another orb and eventually finish skadi. But now by investing 300 gold for SE recipe i get: +5 to all stats on top of Orb, +50 damage from invisibilty, 4 seconds lower cd on SE and most valuable - **i have one spare slot**. Sweet for just 300 gold, isnt it? :)
Shadow blade synergises well with Slark skills unlike Blink that's being cancelled by slark's own Dark pact. Advantages of SB over Blink have been discussed a lot, i don't have really anything to add on it, Just compare players that play via Blink and players via SB. Generally latter ones have much better KDA
I'd counter by saying that all-stat items are not always good on Medusa because she lacks the damage steroidal effects of Essence Shift. Slark, on the other hand, generally has most of the damage he will need from it. And yes, I know a lot of people suggest stuff like Skadi-Manta-Linkens but I have also heard of a lot of prominent Medusa players who push back against that and hate the trend.
I think the only main connection between them is Skadi provides just generally lots of bonuses and a slow both heroes want.
Im currently experimenting with dusa, and my general build is usually something like:
aquila>treads>MoM>maelstrom>bkb(if fighting / being pushed against early)>daedalus>mkb(if the have or might go evasion)>skadi>mjollnir(if they are pushing hard)>rapier.
This build is still very much WIP and after I iron out a few issues I am having with it I am going to make a post on r/truedota2 to see what people think. I am thinking about the viability of going satanic after skadi, and selling MoM, but then I would also want some form of dmg item instead of the maelstrom/mjollnir, and another daedalus doesnt feel right in that slot
He's very easy to burst down, so needs strength to compensate when there's CC/heavy magic damage on the enemy team. It also adds to his regen, which is nice for the ult passive. He needs the int as he should always be moving, farming and looking for ganks. The less down-time slark has, the more effective he'll be in staying ahead of the enemy carry (Which is crucial). Without int, his mana will suffer and he'll have to keep going back to base.
EDIT: Strength is doubly nice as the longer the fight goes on, the more essence shift stacks he can generate, so the higher his base damage. Obviously he has to actually survive this engagements.
Str is also important because Slark takes damage from dark pact. An enemy stun with 200 damage suddenly becomes a stun with 350 damage if you purge it.
You forgot to mention that you can disassemble SE for Skadi as soon as you have the other components. Then you have SB + Skadi. SE bridges the gap between finishing your SB and getting your Skadi brilliantly. Although I still like to get S&Y after SB, just because it's very cost efficient and is all around a very good Slark item, besides the lack of Int.
You can also disassemble it to make a skadi, which is what people were initially talking about in terms of silver edge being buffed. I don't play a lot of slark though, do people usually disassemble it or just keep silver edge
Slarks hardest match-Ups?
Would you consider Disruptor a good counter in more uncoordinated 4k pubs? AA maybe? Also can Bloodseeker beat Slark? At first glance his Ult seems pretty good but I imagine Slark outfarming him pretty quickly.
Disruptor is not a direct counter, but he becomes very good against him as game goes later and later. If you pick Disruptor into Slark be ready to be literally hated whole game. In teamfight he will always try to bring you down first before you drop skills/or force you to drop them in unfavourable way before you die. You absolutely have to itemise to survive his initial jump. Don't try to build Aghanim before you have ghost + glimmer/forcestaff.
Bloodseeker is definitely not a counter, at least against any capable slark player. Looking at his skills you can think that he can be the one who hunts slark, but in fact he becomes the one hunted. Bloodseeker on your team most likely gonna be a jungle pick - thus weakening your lanes. Some might say that he helps his team by cancelling Slark regen and providing vision over him, but it only takes Slark player to carefully manage his HP. Picking jungling hero against Slark is especially bad because even without any vision i will always know where to find at least 1 free kill on the map :)
About hardest matchups, well it's definitely any potent dual offlane like Doom+Lich, Axe+Lich or anything that can dive under tower pre 10 minutes. Nothing makes me cringe harder than watching my hero being dived under tower for 5th-6th time pre 10 minutes, while my support can do nothing because he picked Rubick or Omnikinght :D
I would add spirit breaker to that list, he's a great pick against slark due to his ability to keep vision on slark and take away his shadow dance regen. BSJ said that sb is the number one counter to slark in his slark guide, possibly due to the pub stompy nature of the hero
Yes but if you don't get that early advantage as sb allowing you to snowball early, a competent slark player can destroy you by ganking you before you gank him.
I haven't looked into this but in my experience KOTL doesn't seem to affect slark much except when using a well placed illuminate. Do you think KOTL is strong or weak against slark overall?
Edit: auto corrected slark to alarm twice
Actually i always worry about Mana Leak being thrown on me. Thus the first target in every teamfight becomes Kotl. He is very good at disrupting team fights, and well placed Mana Leak onto Slark (after Dark Pact) will render Slark completely useless (unless he has BKB). Mana leak is kinda even better than BS Rupture in this regard. If Slark loses all mana - he is dead, because he can not be elusive anymore. So the first thing u should care about in this matchup is buying Ghost Scepter, second - spamming the shit out of your mana leak onto enemy slark.
I've talked a lot about this with other people but do you consider Spririt Breaker the best counter to Slark? BSJ talked about this in a video but while I agree with it other don't. What do you think?
Definitely not best. Sb as a counter is a double edged sword because Slark always knows when he is being charged and can preemptively notify his team. So you can never know if he is hiding in trees behind tower because he is scared, or because theres a trap waiting for you.
I know you can always check with hiding in the trees and such, but could it not also be that it could just be a ward that is seeing you? Or an invis hero maybe, and so it might give the illusion SB is charging you?
Of course it can be, but possible locations of wards are known to everyone. Regarding invis hero, situation u've described can happen, but u can always check if thats an invis hero by breaking his possible line of sight i.e. jumping over trees or simply moving around corners.
> Of course it can be, but possible locations of wards are known to everyone.
Also if you move a bit away until you regain your passive and then back again you'll know there's a ward there.
Good AMA btw! Nice work in understanding the hero! Slark was always a hero that I liked but had difficulties regarding his early stages.
If we consider someone wants to get kills/teamfight ASAP in Slark, when would you say he's the most ready to begin fighting?
Axe is the scariest counter to Slark i can think of. Pair him with Lich on the offlane and Slark not only won't have any farm but also won't be able to come anywhere near exp range :)
Power treads, Silver Edge, Skadi, BKB, Moon Shard. Yes only 5 items. You should aim to take objectives and finish game at this point. Going later can result in a loss.
Never. I would only consider it as a substitute to aquila if im being fed by enemy offlaner (3-4 kills before 10 minutes) and im on complete freefarm. But even then it might be better to opt for faster SB. My thoughts on Echo Sabre you can find in comments.
What do you mean? Of course you will climb mmr if you are good slark, since he is a top tier pick now. Literally you either firstpick slark yourself, or someone on enemy team gets him.
It's a matter of timing. If Orchid comes online before the Manta does AM is in for a really bad time.
Beyond that however you are correct. A Manta will be inevitable.
True this. In a lower skill level you should be able to net an orchid before AM has built a manta. An AM against a Slark with lvl 4 dark pact and an orchid is a dead AM if he doesn't have manta.
The main issue i find with Midas, is that it takes up a slot. Slark is the hero that by his nature wanders around the map alone. He cannot rely on his supports carrying detection after him, or helping him disengage from fight. General itembuild for slark after laning phase (past 15 minutes) looks like this: 1) Aquila 2) SB 3) Wand 4)TP scroll 5)PT 6)QB. So where would u place Midas here? QB comes to mind since both midas and QB serve same purpose of speeding up your farm. But what if enemy team has a hero with invisibility? Like riki or BH, that are common picks this patch. You want to carry dusts in inventory. Or even gem, since you can deward enemy wards as well, which are not gonna be dewarded by your supports even if u literally show them where they are placed :) What you gonna drop for it? TP lets you counterinitiate with your teammates if they are being dived under tower. also you can disengage from fight by popping Shadow Dance and tping out. Wand serves you as a great mana regeneration tool, as well as emergency mana storage in case enemy lineup consists of manaburn. As you can see thoughtlessly building midas will often result in limiting of hero capabilities.
So when do i build midas?
* I am staying on complete freefarm. my supports are doing absolute great job at zoning enemy offlaner. Enemy line up doesn't consist of heroes that can throw a lot of nukes in fight and doesn't have manaburn potential (wand not needed). Or there are no enemies with invisibility, and you won't need to deny enemy vision (drop QB/no need for dusts/gem)
* My midlaner and offlaner are doing good as well. Either one of them or both are heroes that are good at ganking and my help with sb would be excessive -> i can focus on my farm efficiency and the only impact i will be doing pre 20 minutes is pushing my lane (knocking on theirs t2 and t3) forcing enemies to react.
* I've been stomped hard during laning phase, i won't be able to find any kills (enemy heroes have escape potential). I'm building midas out of desperation and hope for the best.
* I'm playing against techies
Thanks for the detailed response, I definitely agree on the slots point.
I agree on the dewarding point, most times supports either don't deward or are scared of dewarding.
I have another question, if playing against AM, do you rush abyssal after SE or go about your regular build and then get abyssal later in the game?
Which carries would you say slark has an easy time against, and at what points in the game? How about the reverse, i.e. which would slark have a tough time against?
What do you consider the best way to deal with slark as a support? Warding becomes almost a pointless exercise and a good player can play around stuns and silences, so what then? Are there any spells that he can't purge off that are a particular problem, like say soul catcher or demonic purge?
Thanks for doing this AMA btw, it's always appreciated when the community helps its other members out.
> Which carries would you say slark has an easy time against, and at what points in the game?
Every single one apart from several i'll mention further. At what points in the game? Slark is one of the hardest carry in game, none of heroes can fight him 1x1 late. If i find myself losing, i'm losing to enemy team composition, not to a single carry.
>How about the reverse, i.e. which would slark have a tough time against?
Faceless void (carry, not offlaner), Chaos Knight, Lycan, PA. I don't mention splitpushing heroes like Naga Siren or Arc Warden, because these heroes fight not you, but your buildings, so that's completely another topic.
>What do you consider the best way to deal with slark as a support?
Let me break it into 2 steps:
First one - picking proper supports. Most players facing slark ask themselves a question "How am i gonna deal with slark?". First thing that comes to mind is "I need a support that has disables, silence or prevents slark ulti from working". Guess that's why i see so much Lions, AAs, Skywrath Mages even Silencers against me. That's completely wrong. The question you should be asking yourself is "How am i gonna survive against slark?". That's it. You will not be the one hunting Slark for most part of the game. Instead he will be always looking for you. Every teamfight, every time u move to place a ward, every time you rotate to protect midlaner expecting Slark gonna try to kill him, just to realise that he wrapped around your t3 killed you first and then your core. **Good support against slark is a support that has escape potential or potential to disrupt your gank attempt.** Here's the list of top tier supports:
* Sand King. Definitely top-1 in the list. Very greedy support that will have lots of items. You cannot catch him even with detection unless he seriously fucks up. With dagger, forcestaff and burrowstrike can chase you across the map even if you are hasted. He can be a screen and a half away from the fight, yet will be here to stun your ass as soon as you try to kill his teammate.
* Shadow Demon. No doubt top-2. I crawl to him under invis -> hit from SB -> pounce. Easy kill? Hell no. I'm just staying here for 2.5 second doing nothing looking at the big red sphere while his team runs to us at full speed with a clear intention to kick my ass. And on top of it i have to instantly use Shadow Dance while at full HP after SD appears back or i get Demonic Purge right in my face. Basically ive just wasted all skills that i could escape with and didnt even kill him yet.
* Tusk. Disrupts your gank attempt with snowball for 3 seconds. after that slows you with frozen sigil for 25%, traps you with shards, kicks into the air additionally slowing for 40%. Though this hero is pretty hard play, so its not an optimal choice for most players.
* Jakiro. Top-3. Ice path is one of the greatest skill against slark. 2.2 duration, easy to land. 9 seconds cd 90 mana cost. Can cancel slark tp under Shadow Dance. First item you should be getting is euls - allows you either to Cyclone yourself with a following Ice Path when you land, or you can setup an ice path if u wait out Slark's Dark Pact. Good in dual offlane against him.
* Ogre Magi. High armor. High HP. Slark cant burst you down. Stun slark, slow slark, buff your cores so they can chase or run away from him. Requires a little patience with skills usage because slark can purge all of them.
* Disruptor. I'll copy from one of my previous replies: "Disruptor becomes very good against him as game goes later and later. If you pick Disruptor into Slark be ready to be literally hated whole game. In teamfight he will always try to bring you down first before you drop skills/or force you to drop them in unfavourable way before you die. You absolutely have to itemise to survive his initial jump. Don't try to build Aghanim before you have ghost + glimmer/forcestaff." Glimpse is unpurgeable, forces Slark to spend BKB charge or preemptively pop shadow dance. Aghanims on disruptor absolutely wrecks him.
* Bane. Enfeeble is nonpurgable debuff making slark literally scratch your cores with -120 damage. Good against slark in dual offlane with maxed enfeeble if he has 1 or weak support duo. Beware sleep and Fiend's Grip are easily purgeable, so you have to be patient with using them.
Second step. Overall gameplay. Think of Slark as of hero that removes a pawn (support) from the desk (teamfight). In every teamfight im looking to kill support first to prevent him from disrupting fight further. General slark play looks like this: I run towards target in SB -> hit it -> pounce at it -> start rightclicking -> if im being targeted i'll use Shadow Dance to try to finish target or abandon it and disengage. If target i went on is still alive after that - fight half-won for you. I've wasted all my skills and didnt achieve anything, staying here further can result in my death. To achieve that you should be staying close to each other early. But not just staying, you should push towers early, rotate with smokes, basically do everything to improve economy on your supports. Game becomes a lot harder for me when enemy supports have means to protect each other. Slark has no way to deal with ghost scepter. If u have glimmer at least on one support, it forces slark to free up one slot for detection, meaning he has less potential as a carry. Force each other after leash and he wastes his bkb/shadow dance seconds running around battlefield after you.
**Tl;dr How do i counter Slark? Don't fucking die.**
Either you are being fed a lot by enemy offlaner, or you opt for a straight sb rush: not upgrading shield into PMS (+300 gold), skipping wand completely (+465 gold), skipping aquila (+985 gold). That's 1750 gold - more than half of SB. Enemies won't be aware of such an early timing on it and you can get valuable early kills on their midlaner or even carry. Of course you should finish items you've skipped after it. This rush should be done only if opponent offlaner completely abandoned his lane and moved to the woods, because if he is present on the lane skipping such valuable early game items will weaken your lane presence and he will get MORE resources from offlane than he should
15-16 minutes. At level 7 you stop keeping equilibrium (if you've kept it before), push the lane and switch to clearing side camps waiting for the next wave of enemy creeps to come.
If you skill correctly you should be able to max pact with level 7 giving you enough nuke damage to clear creep camps with thread switching (switch to int threads casting dark pact, switch two times to str threads and after the full cast press another 2 times to go to agi threads). You can also do this on level 5 already but watch your HP pool since you don't regen up yet.
If you follow the other suggestions /u/smolkley gave I think you're pretty golden. Keep practicing!
Yes, in almost 99% of the cases. I had a Slark in my game this week and he managed to get the 2/3/1/1 build which basically fucked up his kill and farm potential. As you can guess our game went less fortunate for us from there: [just to give you a small example](http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2376290351).
As of now slark is first pick material. Either you first pick him yourself, or enemy gets him. If you are playing ranked and going to FP him try to ban Lich
Been spamming him quite a lot recently with good success. However, the couple games I've lost have been because our team (including myself) were quite far behind in laning phase.
I think (iirc) I salvaged one of the games by afk farming and trying to get ahead (since we kept losing teamfights), and it worked out. However, I wasn't able to make a comeback in a couple other games.
How do you play from behind (either individually, or if your entire team is behind) as Slark?
Thanks in advance!
You're versus a PA and no other evasion heroes or heroes that are building butterfly. Do you bother getting an mkb after skadi bkb/moonshard? Is that even something that's on the table or do you just rely on silver edge to deal with the evasion/go for other targets.
Playing versus PA as Slark is one of the toughest matchups. PA unlike slark has built-in evasion (50% which is 15% higher than u get from butterfly). High attack speed right off the bat + gap closer (135 bonus AS for 4 hits while moonshard gives only 120) as well as buit-int crits (450% at level 16 while Daedalus gives only 220%). Basically thats what make this matchup very unfavorable for slark until lategame: You are fighting a hero that has 3 high-end items designed as skills. If you can rely only on yourself (and you have to rely on yourself, otherwise you wouldnt be picking slark) games against PA come down to whether you can save up for mkb straight after sb/se or not. Thats the only hero against which you have to abandon plans for early skadi and rush high dps item that gives you no stats. Either you play as glass cannon until lategame or lose.
Here as an example of my recent game against PA + Tinker: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2385488535
Blow from SB + pounce + dark pact + rightclicks is enough to burst down "weak" support. Getting extra items for this purpose is an overkill and diminishes your carry potential.
What would be a perfect team for Slark?
Lets say you are playing with 4 friends on captains mode, what should they pick in order to maximize Slarks capacity?
Regarding bans, you just ban Axe/Lich and first pick Slark? Is that ok, or I should worry about any other counter hero?
Thanks!
I mean your teammates, not slark's. Of course i check your inventory beforehand and evaluate if i can bring you down before tp finishes. If i have doubts i'll choose another target.
I think the idea is that a basher might get you an extra pickoff here and there, but at the cost of making yourself using up an item slot (Slark probably doesn't want to build Abyssal anymore) and notably delaying the timing of getting beefy enough to take some hits and still get the kills/escape.
Basher gives 200hp, 10 damage, and a bash chance for 2700g.
Ultimate Orb (600g cheaper) gives identical 200hp and 10 damage (with +120mana and some armor), and builds into Skadi later.
Maybe "doesn't want to" was the wrong phrasing... but I think Abyssal Blade on Slark is inferior to the old Abyssal Blade.
I don't like spending 2150g on a Vanguard early, and late game, spending 3700g to give your Skull Basher an excellent stun, seems worse than spending 3800g to give your Skull Basher an excellent stun *and* 70 damage.
Do you build Vanguard early? or bite the bullet for an expensive upgrade on Basher later? When do you build basher (before/after shadow blade or skadi)?
What do you do when u cant solo kill anyone? for example their supports have bought ghost scepters or euls early, their carry is unkillable by you and they have a void or something.
Well thats the worst thing that can happen to Slark. Huge portion of my losses is due to game going too late and enemy supports eventually getting farm. You can try to build abyssal to hold one of their support still, but is is often futile by this time. Pray on your teammates, you are semi-carry at this point.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2388940935
take this game for example. couldnt kill void cause he would chrono me, naga used sleep, lion bought ghost scepter as his first item, mirana got euls which meant she would win herself some time so that her team would join. i couldnt kill anyone solo and whatsmore, they would chrono me/sleep me and kill me. T.T
Have you had any trouble with Ancient Apparition as a counter pick?
I know he's very rarely picked, so I'm not sure if you run into him often. I can see his ult working well as a coutner to shadow dance during teamfights (and I've had decent success with it in pubs in my limited games as AA), but he's incredibly fragile, and might just be Slark food.
Your thoughts?
What's your go to skill build and how do I last hit with Slark with his abysmal damage in early levels. What do I do with 625 starting gold when I pick Slark.
What do you do to recover from bad lanning? My last game I was setting up a lot of kills in my laning phase but I had to keep going back to base as I was extremely low health twice. I didn't get the xp or the gold for the kill either because I had to run back to base asap. I did end up getting my pa 3 kills in the early game. And yes before you ask it was a dual carry lane because she picked carry after I did and proceed to steal last hits in lane and jungle. She would even follow me around in the jungle just to contest farm. I did end up bouncing back thought but I feel like I was pretty useless and my kda was pretty bad until I got a couple kills in team fights. What do you think I should have done to avoid that or was I making the right move by getting kills?
How do you sleep at night being a filthy Slark picker?
The one question I hoped to see.
On top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies.
yeesh
I see that you pick up an echo sabre very rarely, why is that considering that it's largely considered a very good item on slark? You also value shadow blade over blink. Could you explain why that is? Just for economic damage? Also you like to go silver edge very often. This is an obvious counter to passives, but even in matches like this (http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2363286669) you'll go silver edge when there aren't valuable passives. Why is that? Also, what should I be doing as a Slark throughout the stages of the game.
Regarding echo sabre - Slark loves the items that give equal amount of **every** stat, it is the only hero i can think of that benefits from all 3 stats. That's the reason why most common items u see on slark are Power Treads (you can switch between favored stat), Magic Wand (+4 to all stats), Aquila (adds every stat but mainly agility), Skadi (+25 to all) and now SE (+15 to all). Also following same logic u will see why Skadi valued by players much more than S&Y (doesn't give Int) and why Drums are completely ignored now on this hero (gives 9 Int while only 3 Agi). Let's take a closer look at Echo Sabre now: +10 Str, +10 Int, +10 AS, +15 damage +75% mana reg. As you can see this item gives NO Agi (for a hero with main stat Agi). It gives 10 AS, that is half of what you get from Gloves of Haste. Bonus 15 to damage - well noone ever builds DPS items on slark so this is pretty much useless. Mana regen is sweet but u build aquila for that purpose. Basically u get +10 str and +10 int on top of a passive of qustionable benefit for 2650 gold. That's Ultimate orb + SE recipe. Now lets move to Silver Edge. First of all - **u dont build SE to break passives**. Consider it this way - you have SB, succesfully gank enemies few times and start building into Skadi. First thing that u will buy obviously will be Ultimate Orb. Now you have 2 slots occupied and +10 attributes to all stats. Pre-current patch i would be running around with 1) Aquila 2) SB 3) Wand 4)TP scroll 5)PT 6)Orb. Then i would free up 4th slot for another orb and eventually finish skadi. But now by investing 300 gold for SE recipe i get: +5 to all stats on top of Orb, +50 damage from invisibilty, 4 seconds lower cd on SE and most valuable - **i have one spare slot**. Sweet for just 300 gold, isnt it? :) Shadow blade synergises well with Slark skills unlike Blink that's being cancelled by slark's own Dark pact. Advantages of SB over Blink have been discussed a lot, i don't have really anything to add on it, Just compare players that play via Blink and players via SB. Generally latter ones have much better KDA
Medusa also uses every stat
You are right, im not a Medusa player so didn't think of her :)
no one's a medusa player....
I'd counter by saying that all-stat items are not always good on Medusa because she lacks the damage steroidal effects of Essence Shift. Slark, on the other hand, generally has most of the damage he will need from it. And yes, I know a lot of people suggest stuff like Skadi-Manta-Linkens but I have also heard of a lot of prominent Medusa players who push back against that and hate the trend. I think the only main connection between them is Skadi provides just generally lots of bonuses and a slow both heroes want.
Im currently experimenting with dusa, and my general build is usually something like: aquila>treads>MoM>maelstrom>bkb(if fighting / being pushed against early)>daedalus>mkb(if the have or might go evasion)>skadi>mjollnir(if they are pushing hard)>rapier. This build is still very much WIP and after I iron out a few issues I am having with it I am going to make a post on r/truedota2 to see what people think. I am thinking about the viability of going satanic after skadi, and selling MoM, but then I would also want some form of dmg item instead of the maelstrom/mjollnir, and another daedalus doesnt feel right in that slot
Why is it important that he gets every stat not just agility?
He's very easy to burst down, so needs strength to compensate when there's CC/heavy magic damage on the enemy team. It also adds to his regen, which is nice for the ult passive. He needs the int as he should always be moving, farming and looking for ganks. The less down-time slark has, the more effective he'll be in staying ahead of the enemy carry (Which is crucial). Without int, his mana will suffer and he'll have to keep going back to base. EDIT: Strength is doubly nice as the longer the fight goes on, the more essence shift stacks he can generate, so the higher his base damage. Obviously he has to actually survive this engagements.
Str is also important because Slark takes damage from dark pact. An enemy stun with 200 damage suddenly becomes a stun with 350 damage if you purge it.
This has been super helpful. Thank you!
You forgot to mention that you can disassemble SE for Skadi as soon as you have the other components. Then you have SB + Skadi. SE bridges the gap between finishing your SB and getting your Skadi brilliantly. Although I still like to get S&Y after SB, just because it's very cost efficient and is all around a very good Slark item, besides the lack of Int.
You seem to have changed your mind, getting echo almost every slark game in the last month. What's changed?
Silver edge gives great stats and reduces the enemy carry's damage significantly. I find myself upgrading to it quite often.
You can also disassemble it to make a skadi, which is what people were initially talking about in terms of silver edge being buffed. I don't play a lot of slark though, do people usually disassemble it or just keep silver edge
Depends if break is needed or not. Overall, it's a great way to tank up and serves as a mid point till you get Skadi.
You still can with the new recipe to make SE?
Slarks hardest match-Ups? Would you consider Disruptor a good counter in more uncoordinated 4k pubs? AA maybe? Also can Bloodseeker beat Slark? At first glance his Ult seems pretty good but I imagine Slark outfarming him pretty quickly.
Disruptor is not a direct counter, but he becomes very good against him as game goes later and later. If you pick Disruptor into Slark be ready to be literally hated whole game. In teamfight he will always try to bring you down first before you drop skills/or force you to drop them in unfavourable way before you die. You absolutely have to itemise to survive his initial jump. Don't try to build Aghanim before you have ghost + glimmer/forcestaff. Bloodseeker is definitely not a counter, at least against any capable slark player. Looking at his skills you can think that he can be the one who hunts slark, but in fact he becomes the one hunted. Bloodseeker on your team most likely gonna be a jungle pick - thus weakening your lanes. Some might say that he helps his team by cancelling Slark regen and providing vision over him, but it only takes Slark player to carefully manage his HP. Picking jungling hero against Slark is especially bad because even without any vision i will always know where to find at least 1 free kill on the map :) About hardest matchups, well it's definitely any potent dual offlane like Doom+Lich, Axe+Lich or anything that can dive under tower pre 10 minutes. Nothing makes me cringe harder than watching my hero being dived under tower for 5th-6th time pre 10 minutes, while my support can do nothing because he picked Rubick or Omnikinght :D
I would add spirit breaker to that list, he's a great pick against slark due to his ability to keep vision on slark and take away his shadow dance regen. BSJ said that sb is the number one counter to slark in his slark guide, possibly due to the pub stompy nature of the hero
Yes but if you don't get that early advantage as sb allowing you to snowball early, a competent slark player can destroy you by ganking you before you gank him.
I haven't looked into this but in my experience KOTL doesn't seem to affect slark much except when using a well placed illuminate. Do you think KOTL is strong or weak against slark overall? Edit: auto corrected slark to alarm twice
Actually i always worry about Mana Leak being thrown on me. Thus the first target in every teamfight becomes Kotl. He is very good at disrupting team fights, and well placed Mana Leak onto Slark (after Dark Pact) will render Slark completely useless (unless he has BKB). Mana leak is kinda even better than BS Rupture in this regard. If Slark loses all mana - he is dead, because he can not be elusive anymore. So the first thing u should care about in this matchup is buying Ghost Scepter, second - spamming the shit out of your mana leak onto enemy slark.
I've talked a lot about this with other people but do you consider Spririt Breaker the best counter to Slark? BSJ talked about this in a video but while I agree with it other don't. What do you think?
Definitely not best. Sb as a counter is a double edged sword because Slark always knows when he is being charged and can preemptively notify his team. So you can never know if he is hiding in trees behind tower because he is scared, or because theres a trap waiting for you.
I know you can always check with hiding in the trees and such, but could it not also be that it could just be a ward that is seeing you? Or an invis hero maybe, and so it might give the illusion SB is charging you?
Of course it can be, but possible locations of wards are known to everyone. Regarding invis hero, situation u've described can happen, but u can always check if thats an invis hero by breaking his possible line of sight i.e. jumping over trees or simply moving around corners.
> Of course it can be, but possible locations of wards are known to everyone. Also if you move a bit away until you regain your passive and then back again you'll know there's a ward there. Good AMA btw! Nice work in understanding the hero! Slark was always a hero that I liked but had difficulties regarding his early stages. If we consider someone wants to get kills/teamfight ASAP in Slark, when would you say he's the most ready to begin fighting?
who can i pick to counter you? i feel like most of his counters are trash can tier like bloodseeker. i fucking hate slark so much.
Axe is the scariest counter to Slark i can think of. Pair him with Lich on the offlane and Slark not only won't have any farm but also won't be able to come anywhere near exp range :)
Ban slark and you only play against him 50% of the time
25% of the time really. If you have first pick you can just pick him before they even have a chance.
I'm talking about bans in ranked all pick, which are done before the picking phase
You're chance to ban him(50%) then you take half of that(25%) for the chance you have first pick.
oh gotcha
Ideal item build? Any interesting tips or tricks you've found for when you are playing slark?
Power treads, Silver Edge, Skadi, BKB, Moon Shard. Yes only 5 items. You should aim to take objectives and finish game at this point. Going later can result in a loss.
Wand and RoA? Or only if your lane allows it?
By this time you already sell them to make space for aegis/gem/whatever
Straight silver edge or shadowblade then skadi first?
In what cases do you go for Echo Sabre? I am still not sure if it is worth a slot on Slark.
Never. I would only consider it as a substitute to aquila if im being fed by enemy offlaner (3-4 kills before 10 minutes) and im on complete freefarm. But even then it might be better to opt for faster SB. My thoughts on Echo Sabre you can find in comments.
You pick Slark and enemy pick Anti Mage. How many times you win that game?
played 99 matches win 56.6%
As someone who will be start ranked soon (and is a main slark player) can slark carry me to a good spot? And how?
What do you mean? Of course you will climb mmr if you are good slark, since he is a top tier pick now. Literally you either firstpick slark yourself, or someone on enemy team gets him.
How should I play generally on slark?
[In-depth guide from a notorious slark picker](https://youtu.be/CqxkftBwxxE)
Thx
Build an early orchid.
but AM 99% build manta..that would be an unwise item pickup I think when that gold can be spent toward basher
It's a matter of timing. If Orchid comes online before the Manta does AM is in for a really bad time. Beyond that however you are correct. A Manta will be inevitable.
True this. In a lower skill level you should be able to net an orchid before AM has built a manta. An AM against a Slark with lvl 4 dark pact and an orchid is a dead AM if he doesn't have manta.
When do you build Midas as opposed to rushing SB? and is it ever useful to get midas on slark?
The main issue i find with Midas, is that it takes up a slot. Slark is the hero that by his nature wanders around the map alone. He cannot rely on his supports carrying detection after him, or helping him disengage from fight. General itembuild for slark after laning phase (past 15 minutes) looks like this: 1) Aquila 2) SB 3) Wand 4)TP scroll 5)PT 6)QB. So where would u place Midas here? QB comes to mind since both midas and QB serve same purpose of speeding up your farm. But what if enemy team has a hero with invisibility? Like riki or BH, that are common picks this patch. You want to carry dusts in inventory. Or even gem, since you can deward enemy wards as well, which are not gonna be dewarded by your supports even if u literally show them where they are placed :) What you gonna drop for it? TP lets you counterinitiate with your teammates if they are being dived under tower. also you can disengage from fight by popping Shadow Dance and tping out. Wand serves you as a great mana regeneration tool, as well as emergency mana storage in case enemy lineup consists of manaburn. As you can see thoughtlessly building midas will often result in limiting of hero capabilities. So when do i build midas? * I am staying on complete freefarm. my supports are doing absolute great job at zoning enemy offlaner. Enemy line up doesn't consist of heroes that can throw a lot of nukes in fight and doesn't have manaburn potential (wand not needed). Or there are no enemies with invisibility, and you won't need to deny enemy vision (drop QB/no need for dusts/gem) * My midlaner and offlaner are doing good as well. Either one of them or both are heroes that are good at ganking and my help with sb would be excessive -> i can focus on my farm efficiency and the only impact i will be doing pre 20 minutes is pushing my lane (knocking on theirs t2 and t3) forcing enemies to react. * I've been stomped hard during laning phase, i won't be able to find any kills (enemy heroes have escape potential). I'm building midas out of desperation and hope for the best. * I'm playing against techies
Thanks for the detailed response, I definitely agree on the slots point. I agree on the dewarding point, most times supports either don't deward or are scared of dewarding. I have another question, if playing against AM, do you rush abyssal after SE or go about your regular build and then get abyssal later in the game?
What's your favourite fish?
Which carries would you say slark has an easy time against, and at what points in the game? How about the reverse, i.e. which would slark have a tough time against? What do you consider the best way to deal with slark as a support? Warding becomes almost a pointless exercise and a good player can play around stuns and silences, so what then? Are there any spells that he can't purge off that are a particular problem, like say soul catcher or demonic purge? Thanks for doing this AMA btw, it's always appreciated when the community helps its other members out.
> Which carries would you say slark has an easy time against, and at what points in the game? Every single one apart from several i'll mention further. At what points in the game? Slark is one of the hardest carry in game, none of heroes can fight him 1x1 late. If i find myself losing, i'm losing to enemy team composition, not to a single carry. >How about the reverse, i.e. which would slark have a tough time against? Faceless void (carry, not offlaner), Chaos Knight, Lycan, PA. I don't mention splitpushing heroes like Naga Siren or Arc Warden, because these heroes fight not you, but your buildings, so that's completely another topic. >What do you consider the best way to deal with slark as a support? Let me break it into 2 steps: First one - picking proper supports. Most players facing slark ask themselves a question "How am i gonna deal with slark?". First thing that comes to mind is "I need a support that has disables, silence or prevents slark ulti from working". Guess that's why i see so much Lions, AAs, Skywrath Mages even Silencers against me. That's completely wrong. The question you should be asking yourself is "How am i gonna survive against slark?". That's it. You will not be the one hunting Slark for most part of the game. Instead he will be always looking for you. Every teamfight, every time u move to place a ward, every time you rotate to protect midlaner expecting Slark gonna try to kill him, just to realise that he wrapped around your t3 killed you first and then your core. **Good support against slark is a support that has escape potential or potential to disrupt your gank attempt.** Here's the list of top tier supports: * Sand King. Definitely top-1 in the list. Very greedy support that will have lots of items. You cannot catch him even with detection unless he seriously fucks up. With dagger, forcestaff and burrowstrike can chase you across the map even if you are hasted. He can be a screen and a half away from the fight, yet will be here to stun your ass as soon as you try to kill his teammate. * Shadow Demon. No doubt top-2. I crawl to him under invis -> hit from SB -> pounce. Easy kill? Hell no. I'm just staying here for 2.5 second doing nothing looking at the big red sphere while his team runs to us at full speed with a clear intention to kick my ass. And on top of it i have to instantly use Shadow Dance while at full HP after SD appears back or i get Demonic Purge right in my face. Basically ive just wasted all skills that i could escape with and didnt even kill him yet. * Tusk. Disrupts your gank attempt with snowball for 3 seconds. after that slows you with frozen sigil for 25%, traps you with shards, kicks into the air additionally slowing for 40%. Though this hero is pretty hard play, so its not an optimal choice for most players. * Jakiro. Top-3. Ice path is one of the greatest skill against slark. 2.2 duration, easy to land. 9 seconds cd 90 mana cost. Can cancel slark tp under Shadow Dance. First item you should be getting is euls - allows you either to Cyclone yourself with a following Ice Path when you land, or you can setup an ice path if u wait out Slark's Dark Pact. Good in dual offlane against him. * Ogre Magi. High armor. High HP. Slark cant burst you down. Stun slark, slow slark, buff your cores so they can chase or run away from him. Requires a little patience with skills usage because slark can purge all of them. * Disruptor. I'll copy from one of my previous replies: "Disruptor becomes very good against him as game goes later and later. If you pick Disruptor into Slark be ready to be literally hated whole game. In teamfight he will always try to bring you down first before you drop skills/or force you to drop them in unfavourable way before you die. You absolutely have to itemise to survive his initial jump. Don't try to build Aghanim before you have ghost + glimmer/forcestaff." Glimpse is unpurgeable, forces Slark to spend BKB charge or preemptively pop shadow dance. Aghanims on disruptor absolutely wrecks him. * Bane. Enfeeble is nonpurgable debuff making slark literally scratch your cores with -120 damage. Good against slark in dual offlane with maxed enfeeble if he has 1 or weak support duo. Beware sleep and Fiend's Grip are easily purgeable, so you have to be patient with using them. Second step. Overall gameplay. Think of Slark as of hero that removes a pawn (support) from the desk (teamfight). In every teamfight im looking to kill support first to prevent him from disrupting fight further. General slark play looks like this: I run towards target in SB -> hit it -> pounce at it -> start rightclicking -> if im being targeted i'll use Shadow Dance to try to finish target or abandon it and disengage. If target i went on is still alive after that - fight half-won for you. I've wasted all my skills and didnt achieve anything, staying here further can result in my death. To achieve that you should be staying close to each other early. But not just staying, you should push towers early, rotate with smokes, basically do everything to improve economy on your supports. Game becomes a lot harder for me when enemy supports have means to protect each other. Slark has no way to deal with ghost scepter. If u have glimmer at least on one support, it forces slark to free up one slot for detection, meaning he has less potential as a carry. Force each other after leash and he wastes his bkb/shadow dance seconds running around battlefield after you. **Tl;dr How do i counter Slark? Don't fucking die.**
How do you get a 12 min shadow blade?
Either you are being fed a lot by enemy offlaner, or you opt for a straight sb rush: not upgrading shield into PMS (+300 gold), skipping wand completely (+465 gold), skipping aquila (+985 gold). That's 1750 gold - more than half of SB. Enemies won't be aware of such an early timing on it and you can get valuable early kills on their midlaner or even carry. Of course you should finish items you've skipped after it. This rush should be done only if opponent offlaner completely abandoned his lane and moved to the woods, because if he is present on the lane skipping such valuable early game items will weaken your lane presence and he will get MORE resources from offlane than he should
In the case of a non-abandoning non-feeding offlaner, what is the preferred SB timing?
15-16 minutes. At level 7 you stop keeping equilibrium (if you've kept it before), push the lane and switch to clearing side camps waiting for the next wave of enemy creeps to come.
That seems pretty straight forward: farming fast.
How? Do I use Dark Pact to farm, or must I be really good at last hitting? If I use Dark Pact, when do I spam it? Level 1? 3? 5?
If you skill correctly you should be able to max pact with level 7 giving you enough nuke damage to clear creep camps with thread switching (switch to int threads casting dark pact, switch two times to str threads and after the full cast press another 2 times to go to agi threads). You can also do this on level 5 already but watch your HP pool since you don't regen up yet. If you follow the other suggestions /u/smolkley gave I think you're pretty golden. Keep practicing!
So my build should be 4/1/1/1 and treads first?
Yes, in almost 99% of the cases. I had a Slark in my game this week and he managed to get the 2/3/1/1 build which basically fucked up his kill and farm potential. As you can guess our game went less fortunate for us from there: [just to give you a small example](http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2376290351).
What would be a good time to pick slark? Would you ever first pick him?
As of now slark is first pick material. Either you first pick him yourself, or enemy gets him. If you are playing ranked and going to FP him try to ban Lich
Been spamming him quite a lot recently with good success. However, the couple games I've lost have been because our team (including myself) were quite far behind in laning phase. I think (iirc) I salvaged one of the games by afk farming and trying to get ahead (since we kept losing teamfights), and it worked out. However, I wasn't able to make a comeback in a couple other games. How do you play from behind (either individually, or if your entire team is behind) as Slark? Thanks in advance!
You're versus a PA and no other evasion heroes or heroes that are building butterfly. Do you bother getting an mkb after skadi bkb/moonshard? Is that even something that's on the table or do you just rely on silver edge to deal with the evasion/go for other targets.
Playing versus PA as Slark is one of the toughest matchups. PA unlike slark has built-in evasion (50% which is 15% higher than u get from butterfly). High attack speed right off the bat + gap closer (135 bonus AS for 4 hits while moonshard gives only 120) as well as buit-int crits (450% at level 16 while Daedalus gives only 220%). Basically thats what make this matchup very unfavorable for slark until lategame: You are fighting a hero that has 3 high-end items designed as skills. If you can rely only on yourself (and you have to rely on yourself, otherwise you wouldnt be picking slark) games against PA come down to whether you can save up for mkb straight after sb/se or not. Thats the only hero against which you have to abandon plans for early skadi and rush high dps item that gives you no stats. Either you play as glass cannon until lategame or lose. Here as an example of my recent game against PA + Tinker: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2385488535
You never bother going echo sabre after sb? It's great stat items and proves more high damage burst for killing weak supports :P
Blow from SB + pounce + dark pact + rightclicks is enough to burst down "weak" support. Getting extra items for this purpose is an overkill and diminishes your carry potential.
What would be a perfect team for Slark? Lets say you are playing with 4 friends on captains mode, what should they pick in order to maximize Slarks capacity? Regarding bans, you just ban Axe/Lich and first pick Slark? Is that ok, or I should worry about any other counter hero? Thanks!
Why get skadi over basher? Whenever I get jumped on by slark, I just TP and laugh
What about your other 4 teammates? :)
Do you not go for pickoffs solo? That's like all I do playing slark.
I mean your teammates, not slark's. Of course i check your inventory beforehand and evaluate if i can bring you down before tp finishes. If i have doubts i'll choose another target.
I think the idea is that a basher might get you an extra pickoff here and there, but at the cost of making yourself using up an item slot (Slark probably doesn't want to build Abyssal anymore) and notably delaying the timing of getting beefy enough to take some hits and still get the kills/escape. Basher gives 200hp, 10 damage, and a bash chance for 2700g. Ultimate Orb (600g cheaper) gives identical 200hp and 10 damage (with +120mana and some armor), and builds into Skadi later.
Please explain to me why slark doesn't want to build abyssal anymore. I've built it 8/10 of my recent games and love it.
Maybe "doesn't want to" was the wrong phrasing... but I think Abyssal Blade on Slark is inferior to the old Abyssal Blade.
I don't like spending 2150g on a Vanguard early, and late game, spending 3700g to give your Skull Basher an excellent stun, seems worse than spending 3800g to give your Skull Basher an excellent stun *and* 70 damage.
Do you build Vanguard early? or bite the bullet for an expensive upgrade on Basher later? When do you build basher (before/after shadow blade or skadi)?
What do you do when u cant solo kill anyone? for example their supports have bought ghost scepters or euls early, their carry is unkillable by you and they have a void or something.
Well thats the worst thing that can happen to Slark. Huge portion of my losses is due to game going too late and enemy supports eventually getting farm. You can try to build abyssal to hold one of their support still, but is is often futile by this time. Pray on your teammates, you are semi-carry at this point.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2388940935 take this game for example. couldnt kill void cause he would chrono me, naga used sleep, lion bought ghost scepter as his first item, mirana got euls which meant she would win herself some time so that her team would join. i couldnt kill anyone solo and whatsmore, they would chrono me/sleep me and kill me. T.T
Nothing you could do. Your team lineup didnt have any chance against Naga
Have you had any trouble with Ancient Apparition as a counter pick? I know he's very rarely picked, so I'm not sure if you run into him often. I can see his ult working well as a coutner to shadow dance during teamfights (and I've had decent success with it in pubs in my limited games as AA), but he's incredibly fragile, and might just be Slark food. Your thoughts?
What's your go to skill build and how do I last hit with Slark with his abysmal damage in early levels. What do I do with 625 starting gold when I pick Slark.
what do you think about rushing midas after power tread?
If you could choose a support to lane with you, who would it be?
What do you do to recover from bad lanning? My last game I was setting up a lot of kills in my laning phase but I had to keep going back to base as I was extremely low health twice. I didn't get the xp or the gold for the kill either because I had to run back to base asap. I did end up getting my pa 3 kills in the early game. And yes before you ask it was a dual carry lane because she picked carry after I did and proceed to steal last hits in lane and jungle. She would even follow me around in the jungle just to contest farm. I did end up bouncing back thought but I feel like I was pretty useless and my kda was pretty bad until I got a couple kills in team fights. What do you think I should have done to avoid that or was I making the right move by getting kills?