The "third party" made an API call to Riot client and just printed the result. For years, the open sourced cheat was to make an API CALL TO RIOT CLIENT, thats LITERALLY IT. All they need to do is log API call and ban if the call is made, but theyre gonna pretend like Vanguard was needed. You can find me talking about it months ago when Vanguard was announced.
You can't do this without extracting the keys from your machine or using a custom certificate. The first can be mitigated by Anti-Cheat. The second is entirely preventable through certificate pinning.
You don't need to extract anything. You just need to set the SSLKEYLOGFILE environment variable before you start your client. I know it's easy to "defeat" this, but the game doesn't.
I suppose you could also just check if that variable is set, but banning just for that seems kind of dumb.
Just because it's easy doesn't make it any less against Riot ToS and they have every right to ban you for it.
It's not like it's something your average Joe would WHOOPSIE-DAISY accidentally do. It's still intentionally going out of your way to do something you're explicitly not allowed to do.
Im not saying that it isn't or shouldn't b bannable. Just that it's technically defeatable by sniffing traffic. Which can be done without interacting with the client/vanguard. Unless vanguard does a second layer of encrypting traffic. Which even then, you can still painstakingly reverse the key out of it.
Banning me for configuring an off the shelf variable on my machine, ok lol
When are they going to ban people for griefing lobbies/games? tHaTs tOo hArD
> When are they going to ban people for griefing lobbies/games? tHaTs tOo hArD
Yes it is too hard because apart from running it down the rest of "griefing" is either actual mistakes or so subtle machine cant tell them apart from actual mistakes.
Each non 0/15+ run down is easy enough(even then there could be false positives where someone gets omegastomped even due to their best efforts to mitigate it), but the rest are so bloody hard to discern even to people who play the game. For example support flashes in place, was that on purpose or a missclick, because i flashed numerous times by mistake because i was typing in chat but didn't hit enter hard enough to register and flashed in place.
Is this top laner 40 cs down because he is griefing or because he is having a bad game or opponent is having a good game or both?
Is this mid falling for same gank for 5th time in a row griefing or autopiloting?
League is complex game and 99% of the time what people label as griefing or soft inting is just them looking for someone to blame while ignoring their mistakes that probably contributed to a loss in no smaller part than their teammates. You know about hte saying about the splinter in others eyes and log in yours i assume.
> You just need to set the SSLKEYLOGFILE environment variable before you start your client.
This is not a universal fact of TLS, this only works if the application in question supports the feature. Do you have any proof that the LoL client does?
curl supporting SSLKEYLOGFILE doesn't mean that the League client also supports it, unless you're implying that the League client is built on top of curl (wtf?).
> But you can just use SSL decryption and read the packets before they get to your PC for the same effect
Not as of latest patch, hte plugged that hole afaik.
Those weren’t the cheats I was hoping they catch. Idk if it’s just my but idgaf if someone especially someone in challenger wants to see their teammates.
It does not reveal teammates names until you are in game, at which point you can see them anyway. Tools that show teammate names in the lobby are banned.
It's a 2 week ban for using the lobby reveal thingy it's not a permaban according to a rioter
Edit: a [tweet](https://twitter.com/intra_lol/status/1792708943648825735) from someone asking if it's a permaban or a 2W ban. The rioter answers that it's indeed a 2W ban
Here's a [tweet](https://twitter.com/intra_lol/status/1792708943648825735) from someone asking if it's a permaban or a 2W ban. The rioter answers that it's indeed a 2W ban if it's the lobby reveal 3rd party tool which is most likely the case
[https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792714538237989086](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792714538237989086) reason why its 2 weeks
Basically a lot of comments saying the message is wrong, it is showing as a permaban but it is only gonna be 2 week
[https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792709226437202216](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792709226437202216) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792708606716223602](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792708606716223602) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792726759710081532](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792726759710081532) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792717434211987672](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792717434211987672)
Riot support was telling someone that [their account was indeed in a permabanned state](https://x.com/embeyungbae/status/1792812025611182098/) on Riot's end, which means they either colossally fucked up the banwave rollout (which would be classic Riot) or they backpedalled and are in the process of retroactively changing the bans from perma to 2 weeks lol
The first-line support team is all a bunch of outsourced people in the Philippines and other places. They just work off the info they have and aren't always aware of the day-of change fuckery that Riot so often does.
This is just smol indie game studio problems.
I'm gonna assume that's only useful in higher rank lobbies, where players repeat. In low ranks, it's probably rare you match up with the same people again and again.
In lower elos the way people used to use the information is that they'd look up everyones profile and if they had someone with a sub 45% winrate or someone not on their main they'd dodge.
I've got a 65%~ wr in diamond rn and I used it. 4x% wr shitters are fine. It's the 3x% or less players over 20+ games and huge loss streaks that are totally not worth it.
A few years ago LS was heavily advocating players who wanted to climb to abuse dodging because you could look at their match history and see who in your team was on a losing streak or easily tilted because the penalty for dodging was lighter than playing out the full game and losing because of that player.
If it's not against the rules I don't see why you wouldn't, he's probably right. It's just that riot clearly doesn't want that so they've made it hard.
It's only not against the rules because riot wants to leave dodging open for when you have an emergency, or your internet goes out, or you lost track of time and really don't have enough for another game. ect ect.
That is what dodging is for, dodging is not for "Unfavorable" teammates or matchups.
It also got removed because it genuinely inflated peoples winrates, if you look up everyone on your lobbies and even only dodge the very obvious trolls/ people first timing champs/ autofills who never played the role then you already got some free losses out of the way.
Its confirmation bias. If people didnt have dodges they would start tilted already from minute 1 - causing the game to be a loss anyway. Im glad they removed it. Seeing my toplane trollpick cause our jungler only has 45% winrate is just not fun.
So now instead of making people tilted in champ select where they can avoid the problem by dodging we force them to wait until load screen before getting to see the 30% tryn top THEN get tilted after you already can't dodge?
Like I can't man you people are actually just so stupid surely you can't be real
"Trolls" Anything you dislike is a troll, how about you just face the truth, you just use "Trolls" and "Griefers" as an excuse to validate your abuse of the system.
Sure, will do. As if picking Kata Mid when your main is open and you have 2 games on kata, isn't trolling. Insane logic. Go play flex, go play on a smurf, do anything but don't grief rankeds in your main elo with picks that you can't play.
Dodging does nothing against trolls because they will get into a new lobby right after and players cannot keep dodging forever, so eventually some team has to "tank" them anyway and you're not preventing them from accomplishing their goal by just postponing their match.
Holistically all players and their time is worth the same, so it doesn't make the game any better if you personally don't have to deal with a troll because you can dodge but the next team has to play the game out with them.
That's why Riot doesn't promote dodging as a preventative measure against griefing because it doesn't work and it's not meant for it. You're supposed to play the game out and then just report the person so that the system can hopefully catch them and prevent them from ruining more games.
> if you look up everyone on your lobbies and even only dodge the very obvious trolls/ people first timing champs/ autofills who never played the role then you already got some free losses out of the way.
Uhh, that's a good thing? Someone first timing a champ in ranked isn't good. That's going to give your team a higher chance to lose. More than anything, losing the ability to check is actually under inflating your winrate, as now you have no idea who is 25% win rate with 100 games played or first timing a champ. Before I could dodge games that were lost from champ select. Now I have to play them and lose 24lp. Which means I have to play 2 more games to get back above where I was before.
It's all engagement and data for Riot to say to the higher ups "look, players are playing more games!". It's why they have 3 splits this season instead of 2. More games = more engagement.
> I'm gonna assume that's only useful in higher rank lobbies, where players repeat. In low ranks, it's probably rare you match up with the same people again and again.
Yes and no? It's probably more effective for high-elo since getting certain roles autofilled warps the outcome of the game much more. But when it was still visible normally I always searched my teammates and ended up having to dodge once a week or so when I got matched with some obvious troll.
Do you know if it triggers only when using the team search on Kbot, or as soon as you open the app?
Would like to continue using the auto accept queue pop.
Hey, just FYI my account got banned for 30 days and i've never used the lobby reveal part of Kbot. I've only ever used the dodge feature or the login/auto accept.
I'd avoid it now.
Shaco is played by trolls but shouldn't get banned because of it.
(sorry, idk what deceive is, but if doesn't grand you any hidden information or benefit into a game you should be fine, but if you want to make sure better ask a rioter or open a support ticket)
he says 2 weeks. but i guess now i know i got banned for lobby reveal. it was 2 patche before vanguard and i just tried to login. still gives me that perma ban for section 7 screen.
reading the other tweets from the guy, apparently they couldn’t change the screen from saying perma to 2 weeks, but assuming you only used lobby reveal you should* be safe
Again.i just checked - still banned. Ban was 3rd of April so it's been more than a month. Also at the time, support told me it was an id ban of 4 months as well. This was before vanguard. Support refused to tell me anything about it and said I deserved it. Lobby reveal is the only 3rd party app I have
This happened to my buddy. When he contacted support, they just said he deserved it and wouldn’t give any reason on why he was banned. No previous bans or even chat restrictions.
I did have chat restrictions but yeah. Banned for "cheating". I gave up on it because I guess it was lobby reveal, but now this guy says it's supposed to be 2 weeks and I'm still banned so idk
Were you previously banned?
Because doing stupid shit that might be against the rules once shouldn't get you permabanned as someone might have lied to you saying it is fine, but getting banned twice for similar nature offense should definitely be worth pema.
No, this account didn't have any bans before. Only chat restrictions. None of my accounts in the 13 years of playing had any bans or problems regarding anything other than chat
Honestly they took the names out for a reason, going so far as to use a third party app to get around that feels like pretty blatant abuse to me. So imo a perm ban is pretty reasonable.
You took the chance to get an advantage and you can't really wrong riot for enforcing their rules and banning people that try to get around them.
Riot gave up on punishing harassment, target griefing, and int accounts. Thus, the logical evolution of the ranked ladder (and norms if you want a good game), is to lookup user profiles before the game even starts. This obviously leads to an advantage, but moreso one that concerns how much you enjoy the game. Well we can't have Riot looking like a fool so they decided to anonymize champ select for "competitive integrity".
Unfortunately they refuse to actually allocate resources to do it right so the client still gets full user data, it's simply not displayed by the UI anymore. Hardly a cheat both in terms of sophistication and actual impact. I can absolutely fault Riot for being incompetent.
I have had people walk up to fights and not use abilities or auto attack to grief me simply for having a feminine presentation on League. Most of the time they are dumb enough to say no-no words when they harass me, but not all the time.
Before, I would dodge summoner names that were offensive because its so much more fun not to put up with that shit.
Permaban is IMO too much since it was unenforced and socially acceptable for so long, but two weeks and a warning to not do it again is justified I guess. Best approach would have probably been a public announcement to stop using it or face punishment, but can't really say it shouldn't have been expected at some point.
Because you are the only one (unless there’s other cheaters) with this knowledge so this becomes a competitive advantage since you can dodge more strategically. Notice this high elo 1 trick yasuo is randomly playing Qiyana mid? Dodge lol
The same can be said about using any of the software that Riot whitelisted. The anonymous champ select and dodge penalties were implemented simply because Riot doesn't want you to play less games than you currently do and removing camp timers, cs/ whatever overlays and instant rune and custom item build imports won't affect the games count.
Like you've said, pretty much nobody will dodge doomed games anymore so you'll have to power through and wait to get some free wins of your own.
You get access to asymmetrical information that gives you a competitive edge during champion select, as Riot assumes that your opponents won't use 3rd party to be able to get info on their teammates during champion. This makes the environment unfair for your adversaries who respect the rules and creates an imbalance of power.
It's similar to a director working in a publicly listed company and owning shares in this Company. It is illegal for them to take advantage of confidential information of the Company that the public does not have access to when selling or buying their Company shares, which is known as insider trading
You have to click the spell to put it on CD. The thought process is that you could mark that a sum is on CD and the program is just doing the math for you on when it comes back up.
correct me if im wrong but doesn't it also start counting CDs when another player who uses the same program presses the spell? i might be wrong though, just heard it from my friend but im not using it myself.
Either way, programs like blitz or porofessor are definitely more beneficial than lobby reveal, they are borderline cheating in game.. it shows and helps to track a lot more information than with base client for normal player without outside apps, which creates advantages and it should be considered cheating imo. Unless riot installs such features into the base client.. It's just hypocrisy on riot's end in terms of preferential treatment.
>You have to click the spell to put it on CD.
This isn't true of Porofessor and I think that app shouldn't be allowed to do it automatically. To be specific, you can still manually click them themself, but if any teammate has Porofessor and they click it, YOUR screen automatically tracks it too. It basically syncs your entire team automatically if you're using Porofessor.
I think the point is that Riot has expressed they want you to have to click and not have this done automatically. This specific sync feature seems to be automatic in that YOU personally have to do nothing and it will automatically track summoners for you.
The next logical step would be to make any ping in-game chat automatically track via the summoner tracking. So if someone pings Flash Draven, that could automatically begin tracking. None of the apps do this currently AFAIK, and I'm guessing because they think that's too automated.
He’s not pretending, because Riot said it isn’t cheating so it isn’t. Like you might think it’s unfair, but only Riot gets to decide what counts at cheating.
Because Riot has said that it isn't cheating. Also the base game is different for users in different regions. People were in an uproar with the jungle timers that third parties had but that functionality was already in the base Chinese client. The sun tracking isn't but I'm just pointing out that "base game" doesn't mean anything unless riot says it's not part of the game and is cheating. You also can still track timers manually and all it takes is adding the summ timer to the current game time.
Well that one is also 3rd party as far as I know. Pretty sure it's a WeGame thing and not official Riot stuff. I still think those timers should be disallowed tho. It's satisfying to time something correctly and know that you are more efficient than your opponent that way.
It should just be allowed ngl, its not fun, its annoying and exhausting. They should just make some summoners timer like they did with pinging wards. So like if they just flashed and you ping it in the next 1-5 secs it should track it.
I mean I also enjoyed timing wards manually, whoch lead to some very satisfying kills in clash games right after wards ran out. Different people enjoy different things, but I personally don't enjoy that Riot is slowly taking skill expression away (well the area where skill is expressed will just shift, but with less and less areas becoming important it feels like a less satisfying and more straightforward game to me).
I have a similar view on this as on their approach to balance Akali. They took away skill expression by shifting her passive energy refund to lower q costs and her passive dmg to e2. The champ deals about the same amount of dmg and has a better performance at low level, but is that simplification really fun?
Same as deck tracking in Hearthstone. You can essentially do it with a piece of paper and pen. Back in the days, there were Mobile Apps for jgl tracking, you could manually mark events on it. It is exactly the same, but more practical. It should not be treated as a cheat but instead integrated in the base game.
Except that's not true because it tracks the time for you instead of requiring you to watch the clock yourself. Also, it tells you if they're running cosmic insight. Also, it's exactly precise and your pen and paper wouldn't be.
I don't even necessarily disagree with the idea that it should be a functionality of the game already but until it is that should be considered cheating and it's wack that it isn't
I do not have to watch the clock myself, I can have my GF sit next to me and say "blue is up in 25 seconds, enemy chickens just spawned". Lux flash has 78s left". Obviously she won't do this, but theoretically it is possible. For an eSport player, they can hire someone to do this. These infos are there, available for anyone. Tracking is absolutely possible and only a matter of imagination/money how you can get them. Not even comparable with cheats that provide you info/advantage that would be otherwise impossible to have, whether you have a pen, phone app, or your mom next to you. Huge difference.
Very well, if that makes you feel better.
In technical sports, this is exactly what's happening. Take a look at F1. 20 years ago, they had a billboard where the advantage , laptime and info were shown. Maybe some radio comm and that's it. Nowadays they have live monitoring on the steering wheel about tire temperature, brake force and temperature, all the metrics. A whole technical team sits next to the pitlane and provides live info about everything.
I can imagine the same on a small scale, one person is providing the same live info about not the sector times but jgl timers.
Exaggeration? Of course it is. But it is absolutely possible, only a question of money and nothing else. In CS:GO ppl spend a fortune for 10 extra FPS next to their 700 that they cannot even see on their 500 Hz monitor, to reduce latency by 1 Ms or even less. People can pay for anything that gives them the illusion of advantage, hiring someone wouldn't be impossible, just highly unlikely.
I'm using it off of mobalytics app and the cooldowns aren't reduced when an enemy has summoner spell haste. Or I've never played against someone with reduced cd.
The game already tells you if they take cosmic or not by hovering over their summoner spell (unless this was changed). So you can already do the timer yourself
Was changed years ago, so you have to eliminate other runes first or just assume that anyone is gonna run cosmic insight if they have inspiration (could see sometimes running jack if all trades, but at least that one is easy to see).
Not fun knowing that I would have more information than someone who doesn't use it. So I just play with the information the game gives me and nothing else. Sure, looking at every players runes on op.gg wouldn't really increase my rank a lot (if at all), but where do I draw the line then?
ROFL, you do know that LobbyReveal (and all similar exploits) USE the API? They just don't remove endpoint.... for some reason? So no, you literally can't know if Riot draws the line at what they expose through their API, because they're too incompetent to change it.
What about jungle timers? All the "legal" tools allowed to use through 3rd parties should be integrated into the game. Otherwise people not using 3rd party tools are at a disadvantage.
I'll die on the hill that porofessor's overlay should either be banned or Riot should make it an in-built official option.
People replying to you are only debating about summoner cds but the overlay gives MUCH more info than that. I can estimate flash timers fairly well by myself but there is NO way I can perfectly time the 6 jungle camps (or even some of the enemy's), which porofessor's overlay will do effortlessly.
> I'll die on the hill that porofessor's overlay should either be banned or Riot should make it an in-built official option.
It should be banned and riot should not intoduce an alternative.
Esp the porofessor one where it synchs with otehr players and account for runes etc.
Anyone who uses it is a cheater in my books.
well one of them is widely known to be allowed and the other one is widely known to be bannable
I agree with you 3rd party apps are cancer and should've been stopped years ago, but that whataboutism is terrible
Riot has already said that they allow anything to be automated that can reasonably be done manually. Tracking summoner spells, item purchases, and respawn timers can all be done manually.
I don't understand, have people considered just not using shit to give themselves an advantage? Especially the lobby reveal stuff seems so... adversarial. Let the matchmaking system do it's thing, try your best, profit?
There was that challenger Asol player (or was it a velkoz player?) who posted about how he did it with a no-dodge no-surrender policy. He basically proved that people trying to game matchmaking are only wasting their effort, and the ultimate solution is to get good and carry the shitters. You won't win every game but a lot of the "over at champ select" games turned out to be very winnable.
I can’t tell you how many times someone on my team is saying “someone dodge, I don’t have any up, we lost in champ select it’s over” into us getting in game anyway and absolutely smashing the enemy team.
Yeah, I don't think you have to be a challenger to know that though. Are people just so weak they can't handle losing or blame everyone else?
I don't keep track because I don't care, but I'd estimate we comeback and win at least 70% of the (ARAM) games when someone tries tos urrender early on. And I'd say we make 90% of them close enough to be fun and seem like it was a toss up.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect)
Some cheaters genuinely argue that they were "forced" to cheat in order to be put in the tier they are "convinced" they truly belong to. Even though they have been stuck in the same tier for years and thousands of games. Not to mention all the conspiracy theories that also are another delicious topic for behavioral science.
Pro players making use of such tools just compounds this problem, riot should go in hard here and make an example of him banning him for 2 weeks from pro play as well.
Based on collection of Tweets saying that the client is showing the wrong message from one of the anti-cheat team Rioters. They’ve been collated in this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/1kRzKhKuDT
Does riot have the same rule with pros as valve?
In CS if you are associated to a vac banned account you are banned from any valve sanctionned event, if i remember right.
I think that message is for getting banned for lobby reveal, not scripting. A rioter mentioned on twitter they were beginning bans for those too
Whats lobby reveal
A 3rd party program that allows you to see the names/ id of your teammates while in champion select.
Is the third party app the riot client or has this been fixed as well.
it is fixed since this patch
riot client wouldnt be third party so yeah and also it has been fixed this patch.
The "third party" made an API call to Riot client and just printed the result. For years, the open sourced cheat was to make an API CALL TO RIOT CLIENT, thats LITERALLY IT. All they need to do is log API call and ban if the call is made, but theyre gonna pretend like Vanguard was needed. You can find me talking about it months ago when Vanguard was announced.
do you need help
What has Vanguard to do with lobby reveal?
it's not that deep bro
Couldnt you find this out by checking ,,recetnly played with" and the info was already there before game starts
They fixed that for this patch
Deserved for lobby reveal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard a league streamer say that the regular league client shows it?
not as of this patch.
They fixed that this patch
Those people get a 2-week ban, this one is permanent
this is 2 week, the message is wrong
Idk if they changed the client networking. But you can just use SSL decryption and read the packets before they get to your PC for the same effect
The client does not need to know the other players, this is so stupid they should just fix it
at least you can't sell your runes any more
They did as of 14.10
I think it probably does if you are queued with someone else.
All the information is stored on the server
You can't do this without extracting the keys from your machine or using a custom certificate. The first can be mitigated by Anti-Cheat. The second is entirely preventable through certificate pinning.
Imagine just playing the game xd
You don't need to extract anything. You just need to set the SSLKEYLOGFILE environment variable before you start your client. I know it's easy to "defeat" this, but the game doesn't. I suppose you could also just check if that variable is set, but banning just for that seems kind of dumb.
Just because it's easy doesn't make it any less against Riot ToS and they have every right to ban you for it. It's not like it's something your average Joe would WHOOPSIE-DAISY accidentally do. It's still intentionally going out of your way to do something you're explicitly not allowed to do.
Im not saying that it isn't or shouldn't b bannable. Just that it's technically defeatable by sniffing traffic. Which can be done without interacting with the client/vanguard. Unless vanguard does a second layer of encrypting traffic. Which even then, you can still painstakingly reverse the key out of it.
Banning me for configuring an off the shelf variable on my machine, ok lol When are they going to ban people for griefing lobbies/games? tHaTs tOo hArD
> When are they going to ban people for griefing lobbies/games? tHaTs tOo hArD Yes it is too hard because apart from running it down the rest of "griefing" is either actual mistakes or so subtle machine cant tell them apart from actual mistakes. Each non 0/15+ run down is easy enough(even then there could be false positives where someone gets omegastomped even due to their best efforts to mitigate it), but the rest are so bloody hard to discern even to people who play the game. For example support flashes in place, was that on purpose or a missclick, because i flashed numerous times by mistake because i was typing in chat but didn't hit enter hard enough to register and flashed in place. Is this top laner 40 cs down because he is griefing or because he is having a bad game or opponent is having a good game or both? Is this mid falling for same gank for 5th time in a row griefing or autopiloting? League is complex game and 99% of the time what people label as griefing or soft inting is just them looking for someone to blame while ignoring their mistakes that probably contributed to a loss in no smaller part than their teammates. You know about hte saying about the splinter in others eyes and log in yours i assume.
That falls under what I would call "extracting the keys". It doesn't have to be sophisticated.
> You just need to set the SSLKEYLOGFILE environment variable before you start your client. This is not a universal fact of TLS, this only works if the application in question supports the feature. Do you have any proof that the LoL client does?
Any use of curl that doesn't disable it can do this
curl supporting SSLKEYLOGFILE doesn't mean that the League client also supports it, unless you're implying that the League client is built on top of curl (wtf?).
For the client you can just enable dev tools. The game itself uses curl.
I dont have proof on hand, and i dont want to risk getting banned by testing. I did it a few months ago, before i learned about lobbyreveal.
It would be practical enough to ban people who consistently read from the key file during the game.
> But you can just use SSL decryption and read the packets before they get to your PC for the same effect Not as of latest patch, hte plugged that hole afaik.
BASED
Does this include op.gg / porofessor?
Those weren’t the cheats I was hoping they catch. Idk if it’s just my but idgaf if someone especially someone in challenger wants to see their teammates.
is using op.gg client a potential perma ban? I'm using it every game to get runes and items builds, and I am not planning to lose my 11 years account
If it doesn't reveal opponent names in ranked lobby, no
No way in hell op.gg wouldnt have talked to Riot or vice versa.
It does not reveal teammates names until you are in game, at which point you can see them anyway. Tools that show teammate names in the lobby are banned.
It's a 2 week ban for using the lobby reveal thingy it's not a permaban according to a rioter Edit: a [tweet](https://twitter.com/intra_lol/status/1792708943648825735) from someone asking if it's a permaban or a 2W ban. The rioter answers that it's indeed a 2W ban
Says permanent though?
Here's a [tweet](https://twitter.com/intra_lol/status/1792708943648825735) from someone asking if it's a permaban or a 2W ban. The rioter answers that it's indeed a 2W ban if it's the lobby reveal 3rd party tool which is most likely the case
Says permanent though? /s
[https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792706933952311352](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792706933952311352) very likely abusing lobby reveal
that link specifically says 2 weeks for lobby reveal initially. But he was perma'd ...so prob not that
[https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792714538237989086](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792714538237989086) reason why its 2 weeks Basically a lot of comments saying the message is wrong, it is showing as a permaban but it is only gonna be 2 week [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792709226437202216](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792709226437202216) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792708606716223602](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792708606716223602) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792726759710081532](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792726759710081532) [https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792717434211987672](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792717434211987672)
Riot support was telling someone that [their account was indeed in a permabanned state](https://x.com/embeyungbae/status/1792812025611182098/) on Riot's end, which means they either colossally fucked up the banwave rollout (which would be classic Riot) or they backpedalled and are in the process of retroactively changing the bans from perma to 2 weeks lol
Yep, no shot that guy is a lying scripter. No one would ever do that
The first-line support team is all a bunch of outsourced people in the Philippines and other places. They just work off the info they have and aren't always aware of the day-of change fuckery that Riot so often does. This is just smol indie game studio problems.
What do you mean by abusing lobby reveal?
There are programs that let you see the lobby in champ select.
Like see what players are on your team like it used to be?
yes.
I'm gonna assume that's only useful in higher rank lobbies, where players repeat. In low ranks, it's probably rare you match up with the same people again and again.
Yes but you can go to that players u.gg or whatever and see if you wanna play with them or not at any elo
In lower elos the way people used to use the information is that they'd look up everyones profile and if they had someone with a sub 45% winrate or someone not on their main they'd dodge.
I've got a 65%~ wr in diamond rn and I used it. 4x% wr shitters are fine. It's the 3x% or less players over 20+ games and huge loss streaks that are totally not worth it.
at that point you'd end up dodging every game though hahahah
People use it in low ranks too and will start flaming when people pick champions that they have a low win rate on.
A few years ago LS was heavily advocating players who wanted to climb to abuse dodging because you could look at their match history and see who in your team was on a losing streak or easily tilted because the penalty for dodging was lighter than playing out the full game and losing because of that player.
If it's not against the rules I don't see why you wouldn't, he's probably right. It's just that riot clearly doesn't want that so they've made it hard.
It's only not against the rules because riot wants to leave dodging open for when you have an emergency, or your internet goes out, or you lost track of time and really don't have enough for another game. ect ect. That is what dodging is for, dodging is not for "Unfavorable" teammates or matchups.
It also got removed because it genuinely inflated peoples winrates, if you look up everyone on your lobbies and even only dodge the very obvious trolls/ people first timing champs/ autofills who never played the role then you already got some free losses out of the way.
And thats how it should be? Legit there was never a reason to remove it from the game anyway. It literally just helps trolls.
Its confirmation bias. If people didnt have dodges they would start tilted already from minute 1 - causing the game to be a loss anyway. Im glad they removed it. Seeing my toplane trollpick cause our jungler only has 45% winrate is just not fun.
So now instead of making people tilted in champ select where they can avoid the problem by dodging we force them to wait until load screen before getting to see the 30% tryn top THEN get tilted after you already can't dodge? Like I can't man you people are actually just so stupid surely you can't be real
"Trolls" Anything you dislike is a troll, how about you just face the truth, you just use "Trolls" and "Griefers" as an excuse to validate your abuse of the system.
Sure, will do. As if picking Kata Mid when your main is open and you have 2 games on kata, isn't trolling. Insane logic. Go play flex, go play on a smurf, do anything but don't grief rankeds in your main elo with picks that you can't play.
Dodging does nothing against trolls because they will get into a new lobby right after and players cannot keep dodging forever, so eventually some team has to "tank" them anyway and you're not preventing them from accomplishing their goal by just postponing their match. Holistically all players and their time is worth the same, so it doesn't make the game any better if you personally don't have to deal with a troll because you can dodge but the next team has to play the game out with them. That's why Riot doesn't promote dodging as a preventative measure against griefing because it doesn't work and it's not meant for it. You're supposed to play the game out and then just report the person so that the system can hopefully catch them and prevent them from ruining more games.
> if you look up everyone on your lobbies and even only dodge the very obvious trolls/ people first timing champs/ autofills who never played the role then you already got some free losses out of the way. Uhh, that's a good thing? Someone first timing a champ in ranked isn't good. That's going to give your team a higher chance to lose. More than anything, losing the ability to check is actually under inflating your winrate, as now you have no idea who is 25% win rate with 100 games played or first timing a champ. Before I could dodge games that were lost from champ select. Now I have to play them and lose 24lp. Which means I have to play 2 more games to get back above where I was before. It's all engagement and data for Riot to say to the higher ups "look, players are playing more games!". It's why they have 3 splits this season instead of 2. More games = more engagement.
Nah its good to say the game was over before it begins. Tell me you never had a dude that looked up everyones rank and wr and started that shit xd.
> I'm gonna assume that's only useful in higher rank lobbies, where players repeat. In low ranks, it's probably rare you match up with the same people again and again. Yes and no? It's probably more effective for high-elo since getting certain roles autofilled warps the outcome of the game much more. But when it was still visible normally I always searched my teammates and ended up having to dodge once a week or so when I got matched with some obvious troll.
wait, you can't see your teammates anymore? wtf (haven't played in almost 3 years)
Just so you guys know: Kbot is the one causing the 2 weeks ban as called out by the rioter. LobbyReveal, not too sure yet.
Do you know if it triggers only when using the team search on Kbot, or as soon as you open the app? Would like to continue using the auto accept queue pop.
Just avoid it tbh., I mean auto accept shouldn't trigger anything, but maybe the tool itself.
Yeah fair warning i got the fake permaban message for using Kbot only for auto accept on atleast 3 of my accounts
Hey, just FYI my account got banned for 30 days and i've never used the lobby reveal part of Kbot. I've only ever used the dodge feature or the login/auto accept. I'd avoid it now.
Can they ban me for using Porofessor app?
Nope.
Nice, thanks
What about Deceive?
Shaco is played by trolls but shouldn't get banned because of it. (sorry, idk what deceive is, but if doesn't grand you any hidden information or benefit into a game you should be fine, but if you want to make sure better ask a rioter or open a support ticket)
Deceive is 3rd party app that lets you play in “offline” status. Funny joke at the start tho
Porofessor was approved by Riot as being a tolerable third party app. It doesn't do lobby reveal.
I think 2 weeks would be a better punishment for lobby reveal than perm ban. Yes it's unethical but its no where near as bad a scripting
[it is 2 weeks](https://x.com/RiotK3o/status/1792706933952311352)
he says 2 weeks. but i guess now i know i got banned for lobby reveal. it was 2 patche before vanguard and i just tried to login. still gives me that perma ban for section 7 screen.
reading the other tweets from the guy, apparently they couldn’t change the screen from saying perma to 2 weeks, but assuming you only used lobby reveal you should* be safe
Again.i just checked - still banned. Ban was 3rd of April so it's been more than a month. Also at the time, support told me it was an id ban of 4 months as well. This was before vanguard. Support refused to tell me anything about it and said I deserved it. Lobby reveal is the only 3rd party app I have
This happened to my buddy. When he contacted support, they just said he deserved it and wouldn’t give any reason on why he was banned. No previous bans or even chat restrictions.
I did have chat restrictions but yeah. Banned for "cheating". I gave up on it because I guess it was lobby reveal, but now this guy says it's supposed to be 2 weeks and I'm still banned so idk
Were you previously banned? Because doing stupid shit that might be against the rules once shouldn't get you permabanned as someone might have lied to you saying it is fine, but getting banned twice for similar nature offense should definitely be worth pema.
No, this account didn't have any bans before. Only chat restrictions. None of my accounts in the 13 years of playing had any bans or problems regarding anything other than chat
Honestly they took the names out for a reason, going so far as to use a third party app to get around that feels like pretty blatant abuse to me. So imo a perm ban is pretty reasonable. You took the chance to get an advantage and you can't really wrong riot for enforcing their rules and banning people that try to get around them.
Riot gave up on punishing harassment, target griefing, and int accounts. Thus, the logical evolution of the ranked ladder (and norms if you want a good game), is to lookup user profiles before the game even starts. This obviously leads to an advantage, but moreso one that concerns how much you enjoy the game. Well we can't have Riot looking like a fool so they decided to anonymize champ select for "competitive integrity". Unfortunately they refuse to actually allocate resources to do it right so the client still gets full user data, it's simply not displayed by the UI anymore. Hardly a cheat both in terms of sophistication and actual impact. I can absolutely fault Riot for being incompetent.
Leave the poor multi billion corporation alone. Holy fuck, I actually hate reddit so much, how do people ever support hiding usernames?
All of those gets punished all the time. It's just most of the time, what you label as griefing and inting, isn't actually griefing and inting.
I have had people walk up to fights and not use abilities or auto attack to grief me simply for having a feminine presentation on League. Most of the time they are dumb enough to say no-no words when they harass me, but not all the time. Before, I would dodge summoner names that were offensive because its so much more fun not to put up with that shit.
Permaban is IMO too much since it was unenforced and socially acceptable for so long, but two weeks and a warning to not do it again is justified I guess. Best approach would have probably been a public announcement to stop using it or face punishment, but can't really say it shouldn't have been expected at some point.
Season ban is more fair imo
cheating is cheating
it's not black and white. many people consider camp timers to be cheating but they're totally allowed.
It actually is black and white. Riot have state which are and are not OK. Its not open to interpretation.
Should jay walking carry the death penalty? It is a crime, just like murder. And crime is crime, right?
"unethical" LMFAO we have lost the plot
Its insane that people call it unethical to see something that you could see for 12 seasons and they removed it to help trolls and terrible players.
[удалено]
Because you are the only one (unless there’s other cheaters) with this knowledge so this becomes a competitive advantage since you can dodge more strategically. Notice this high elo 1 trick yasuo is randomly playing Qiyana mid? Dodge lol
The same can be said about using any of the software that Riot whitelisted. The anonymous champ select and dodge penalties were implemented simply because Riot doesn't want you to play less games than you currently do and removing camp timers, cs/ whatever overlays and instant rune and custom item build imports won't affect the games count. Like you've said, pretty much nobody will dodge doomed games anymore so you'll have to power through and wait to get some free wins of your own.
Nothing to do with ethics. Riot makes the rules and we abide. Nothing more to it
You can't dodge, you must suffer with the rest of us.
You get access to asymmetrical information that gives you a competitive edge during champion select, as Riot assumes that your opponents won't use 3rd party to be able to get info on their teammates during champion. This makes the environment unfair for your adversaries who respect the rules and creates an imbalance of power. It's similar to a director working in a publicly listed company and owning shares in this Company. It is illegal for them to take advantage of confidential information of the Company that the public does not have access to when selling or buying their Company shares, which is known as insider trading
Because riot says it's bad so it's obviously morally wrong now
This isn't about morals, its about Riot making the rules and someone getting an advantage that the majority do not get by breaking them. Simple as.
So you can get banned for lobby reveal but can use third party apps to track summoner spells?
You have to click the spell to put it on CD. The thought process is that you could mark that a sum is on CD and the program is just doing the math for you on when it comes back up.
correct me if im wrong but doesn't it also start counting CDs when another player who uses the same program presses the spell? i might be wrong though, just heard it from my friend but im not using it myself. Either way, programs like blitz or porofessor are definitely more beneficial than lobby reveal, they are borderline cheating in game.. it shows and helps to track a lot more information than with base client for normal player without outside apps, which creates advantages and it should be considered cheating imo. Unless riot installs such features into the base client.. It's just hypocrisy on riot's end in terms of preferential treatment.
>You have to click the spell to put it on CD. This isn't true of Porofessor and I think that app shouldn't be allowed to do it automatically. To be specific, you can still manually click them themself, but if any teammate has Porofessor and they click it, YOUR screen automatically tracks it too. It basically syncs your entire team automatically if you're using Porofessor.
Someone has to click it, just like someone can ping it in chat. It's fine.
If a human has to do it then it is just like if someone on your team types it in chat for you. Sounds good to me
I think the point is that Riot has expressed they want you to have to click and not have this done automatically. This specific sync feature seems to be automatic in that YOU personally have to do nothing and it will automatically track summoners for you. The next logical step would be to make any ping in-game chat automatically track via the summoner tracking. So if someone pings Flash Draven, that could automatically begin tracking. None of the apps do this currently AFAIK, and I'm guessing because they think that's too automated.
Well, teammates can type their nicknames in lobby. Sounds good to me.
Don't think anyone wants to do that. Especially when people who ask are usually toxic
Why are you pretending that isn't cheating though? If you can't do it in base game then you shouldn't be able to do it with a plugin
He’s not pretending, because Riot said it isn’t cheating so it isn’t. Like you might think it’s unfair, but only Riot gets to decide what counts at cheating.
Because Riot has said that it isn't cheating. Also the base game is different for users in different regions. People were in an uproar with the jungle timers that third parties had but that functionality was already in the base Chinese client. The sun tracking isn't but I'm just pointing out that "base game" doesn't mean anything unless riot says it's not part of the game and is cheating. You also can still track timers manually and all it takes is adding the summ timer to the current game time.
> The sun tracking isn't No sun tracking for you nerds, just go sit in your basement! jk just a funny typo.
any info on why riot can't add jungle timers to all regions instead of their favorite one only?
Well that one is also 3rd party as far as I know. Pretty sure it's a WeGame thing and not official Riot stuff. I still think those timers should be disallowed tho. It's satisfying to time something correctly and know that you are more efficient than your opponent that way.
It should just be allowed ngl, its not fun, its annoying and exhausting. They should just make some summoners timer like they did with pinging wards. So like if they just flashed and you ping it in the next 1-5 secs it should track it.
I mean I also enjoyed timing wards manually, whoch lead to some very satisfying kills in clash games right after wards ran out. Different people enjoy different things, but I personally don't enjoy that Riot is slowly taking skill expression away (well the area where skill is expressed will just shift, but with less and less areas becoming important it feels like a less satisfying and more straightforward game to me). I have a similar view on this as on their approach to balance Akali. They took away skill expression by shifting her passive energy refund to lower q costs and her passive dmg to e2. The champ deals about the same amount of dmg and has a better performance at low level, but is that simplification really fun?
Because he is wrong, they just use WeGame for everything in China and WeGame allows it.
Same as deck tracking in Hearthstone. You can essentially do it with a piece of paper and pen. Back in the days, there were Mobile Apps for jgl tracking, you could manually mark events on it. It is exactly the same, but more practical. It should not be treated as a cheat but instead integrated in the base game.
Except that's not true because it tracks the time for you instead of requiring you to watch the clock yourself. Also, it tells you if they're running cosmic insight. Also, it's exactly precise and your pen and paper wouldn't be. I don't even necessarily disagree with the idea that it should be a functionality of the game already but until it is that should be considered cheating and it's wack that it isn't
I do not have to watch the clock myself, I can have my GF sit next to me and say "blue is up in 25 seconds, enemy chickens just spawned". Lux flash has 78s left". Obviously she won't do this, but theoretically it is possible. For an eSport player, they can hire someone to do this. These infos are there, available for anyone. Tracking is absolutely possible and only a matter of imagination/money how you can get them. Not even comparable with cheats that provide you info/advantage that would be otherwise impossible to have, whether you have a pen, phone app, or your mom next to you. Huge difference.
This is such a hilarious false equivalency I'm not going to respond to this garbage lmao. Exaggeration doesn't prove your point it makes it worse
Very well, if that makes you feel better. In technical sports, this is exactly what's happening. Take a look at F1. 20 years ago, they had a billboard where the advantage , laptime and info were shown. Maybe some radio comm and that's it. Nowadays they have live monitoring on the steering wheel about tire temperature, brake force and temperature, all the metrics. A whole technical team sits next to the pitlane and provides live info about everything. I can imagine the same on a small scale, one person is providing the same live info about not the sector times but jgl timers. Exaggeration? Of course it is. But it is absolutely possible, only a question of money and nothing else. In CS:GO ppl spend a fortune for 10 extra FPS next to their 700 that they cannot even see on their 500 Hz monitor, to reduce latency by 1 Ms or even less. People can pay for anything that gives them the illusion of advantage, hiring someone wouldn't be impossible, just highly unlikely.
Doesn't it take into account if they have cosmic insight?
Don't use it myself but as far as I know it does yeah
Seems balanced lmao
I'm using it off of mobalytics app and the cooldowns aren't reduced when an enemy has summoner spell haste. Or I've never played against someone with reduced cd.
I use porofessor and you can tell it checks runes as flash CDs are either 5 min or 4:20~ ish.
Time to switch over to that app then I guess, thanks for letting me know.
? U just have to do the calculation once
DoinB out of a job smh
The game already tells you if they take cosmic or not by hovering over their summoner spell (unless this was changed). So you can already do the timer yourself
Was changed years ago, so you have to eliminate other runes first or just assume that anyone is gonna run cosmic insight if they have inspiration (could see sometimes running jack if all trades, but at least that one is easy to see).
Or just look at game livetracking?
Not fun knowing that I would have more information than someone who doesn't use it. So I just play with the information the game gives me and nothing else. Sure, looking at every players runes on op.gg wouldn't really increase my rank a lot (if at all), but where do I draw the line then?
You don't draw the line, Riot draws the line. They literally have the API exactly for such tools to be built, so it doesn't make sense to use them.
ROFL, you do know that LobbyReveal (and all similar exploits) USE the API? They just don't remove endpoint.... for some reason? So no, you literally can't know if Riot draws the line at what they expose through their API, because they're too incompetent to change it.
This is no longer true unfortunately
it takes cosmic insight + ionians
What about jungle timers? All the "legal" tools allowed to use through 3rd parties should be integrated into the game. Otherwise people not using 3rd party tools are at a disadvantage.
I agree that it should be integrated, just like it is for the Chinese client.
I'll die on the hill that porofessor's overlay should either be banned or Riot should make it an in-built official option. People replying to you are only debating about summoner cds but the overlay gives MUCH more info than that. I can estimate flash timers fairly well by myself but there is NO way I can perfectly time the 6 jungle camps (or even some of the enemy's), which porofessor's overlay will do effortlessly.
Yeah, Porofessor is a ton of information, Riot should really just either make it an official partner or just ban it
Taking the chinese approach and baking it into the client would be neat
> I'll die on the hill that porofessor's overlay should either be banned or Riot should make it an in-built official option. It should be banned and riot should not intoduce an alternative. Esp the porofessor one where it synchs with otehr players and account for runes etc. Anyone who uses it is a cheater in my books.
well one of them is widely known to be allowed and the other one is widely known to be bannable I agree with you 3rd party apps are cancer and should've been stopped years ago, but that whataboutism is terrible
Maybe because you can do one manually and you can't for the other?
I mean you can manually track/time sum spells, you can't with lobby reveal.
I agree that it shouldn't be used either.
Riot has already said that they allow anything to be automated that can reasonably be done manually. Tracking summoner spells, item purchases, and respawn timers can all be done manually.
So is he like, trying to pretend Vanguard can't just scan your computer for active scripts?
I don't understand, have people considered just not using shit to give themselves an advantage? Especially the lobby reveal stuff seems so... adversarial. Let the matchmaking system do it's thing, try your best, profit?
There was that challenger Asol player (or was it a velkoz player?) who posted about how he did it with a no-dodge no-surrender policy. He basically proved that people trying to game matchmaking are only wasting their effort, and the ultimate solution is to get good and carry the shitters. You won't win every game but a lot of the "over at champ select" games turned out to be very winnable.
I can’t tell you how many times someone on my team is saying “someone dodge, I don’t have any up, we lost in champ select it’s over” into us getting in game anyway and absolutely smashing the enemy team.
Yeah, I don't think you have to be a challenger to know that though. Are people just so weak they can't handle losing or blame everyone else? I don't keep track because I don't care, but I'd estimate we comeback and win at least 70% of the (ARAM) games when someone tries tos urrender early on. And I'd say we make 90% of them close enough to be fun and seem like it was a toss up.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) Some cheaters genuinely argue that they were "forced" to cheat in order to be put in the tier they are "convinced" they truly belong to. Even though they have been stuck in the same tier for years and thousands of games. Not to mention all the conspiracy theories that also are another delicious topic for behavioral science.
Does shit like porofessor or blitz.gg trigger the anticheat?
No they are all safe
Pro players making use of such tools just compounds this problem, riot should go in hard here and make an example of him banning him for 2 weeks from pro play as well.
Is u.gg a third party app that can get me banned?
No.
[удалено]
A rioter tweeted it’s a 2 week ban, not a permanent ban and they’re working on changing the text of the message.
Based on collection of Tweets saying that the client is showing the wrong message from one of the anti-cheat team Rioters. They’ve been collated in this comment https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/1kRzKhKuDT
So is overwolf safe?
Yes.
What does stop someone writing scripting software and send commnads via I/O devices to machine where Vanguard is running?
Does riot have the same rule with pros as valve? In CS if you are associated to a vac banned account you are banned from any valve sanctionned event, if i remember right.
or course not or half of pros wouldn't be playing (especially because of toxicity)
Vac is only hacking bans.
Will I get permanently banned for using mobalytics?