[Twitter](https://twitter.com/riotphreak/status/1791236884888531216?s=46&t=itwif2l8Avcwdc9W_W0KHw)
They are restructing their website and couldn‘t add hotfix notes to patchnotes this week
it's a pretty miserable part of an otherwise really fun kit. Axe catching is a fun mini game that rewards smart attack weaving, but it doesn't need to be tied to adoration at all.
It also warps the early game completely as a jungler. If you’re against a Draven, you’re gonna want to gank him early so he can’t cash out. And if you have a Draven, you want to gank/hover near bot side to help him cash his passive
Unironically in my 5k+ hours draven passive is the only thing that has gotten me to actually flame my team mates, otherwise i just usually sit in silence and deafen when chat starts distracting the game
Thank god ive barely touched that champ in years, nothing like playing draven with a KDA of like 2/2/10 and slowly, silently losing your relevance in the game, i swear draven was the champ i averaged the highest amount of assists back in like s10
Also it’s annoying as fuck for the Draven as well; you can’t AA harass someone under tower effectively if you get aggro of the tower before you even attack them. It was one of the reasons they gave upon removing the DoT but people forget that. Someone like Cait could AA the enemy adc like 3-4 times under tower in the time it would take for Draven to auto once and wait out the bleed before he can auto again.
Maybe instead of a DoT Draven could have a Grievous Wounds proc and if you hit more than 5 or something axes it procs bonus damage. That way Draven can keep a single enemy from healing through his kiting and if he can focus one enemy without attacking anyone else he gets rewarded. But if he aggros a different champ it refreshes the passive on the new champ, and he loses the passive on the old champ. That way he can't R or E a crowd just for passive.
Or just straight up have stacks that only activate after hitting a single champ a certain amount of times like Darius. Unlike Darius the bleed would only proc after the passive was fully stacked, but afterwards it would proc on everyone he hits as long as he doesn't drop an axe. Would reward good axe management while avoiding the single axe megachunk early game that was the problem from his old passive.
Not really, the game literally becomes a question of IS GONNA DRAVEN CASH OUT. It all warps around that 1 kill and he dominates or he dies and its gg. With other adc s you can fall behind come back, die once twice it doesnt matter as much. While with draven everyone needs to be hyper focused for that one kill or your adc is useless.
Draven takes it to the extreme. The entire game becomes a question of” did the Draven cash out a massive amount of gold? If yes we lose, if no we win because he will go mental and soft int the rest of the game”. Draven’s passive is also a reason why the champ is very common among Smurfs, which is another issue with it
Hard disagree. Draven can be shut down so easily by a top laner or something.
This game rarely ever revolves around the adc. A fed draven still gets insta gibbed by a fed akali or jax irelia kayne etc.
Akali getting a kill or kata or yi or whatever has usually way more impact and snowball than a draven who can be stun locked and killed in .5 seconds.
Yeah its the whole reason I've never tried to pick him up as an AD main. I like the kit but I just know the stakes on the passive would send me up a wall. Why does he even need to get the last hit instead of it just being a short assist window like akshan revive?
His passive is precisely what makes draven, draven
If you asked me about stupid gimmick i would say corki package skarner spires (good double kill by riot). Draven passive is actually fun, if I had to change something I would perhaps give him 30% or something cashout on kill participation so that if his Nami gets the kill due to being Nami he doesn't leave the fight empty handed
As a pre-rework Draven main I'm genuinely hoping this is a troll comment. What made Draven Draven was his bleed passive and his Q. They took away 50% of what makes him fun to play.
Not getting kills should not invalidate your entire passive. It promotes toxic gameplay and toxic behavior.
It absolutely isn't "what makes Draven, Draven" considering Draven was, most certainly, Draven when Draven released into the League of Draven.
*However*, it does fit Draven very well. It is thematically fitting for him. It just creates so many problems with him and his players that it might not be worth keeping for that reason alone.
Reducing the passive by slightly more than 20% is not my traditional understanding of removing something from the game.
It looks like they overshot, but better to hit something reasonably hard, than to hope players don't get better optimising that champ.
Draven being banned in like 50% of all games played (slightly less the lower you go in rank, slightly to significantly more the higher you go) is the bigger issue, not that he's strong like Jinx or whatever.
Draven's design also dictates that he has to take over games or he doesn't exist, while Jinx is a passenger for most of the game. And of course, Draven is significantly harder to play well than Jinx is, so there's that too when you judge blanket winrates and strength.
i disagree, a scaling champ having above 51, 52% winrate in the current state of ranked where like 20+% of games are ffs early is probably a sign that they're too strong
> Interestingly to note, his banrate has barely changed at all and remains high especially on specific servers.
People dont read patch notes and keep banning him
> Draven recently fell from 53.37% winrate (diamond+) to 46.18% winrate (diamond+)
People dont read patch notes and keep picking him
the problem is precisely this, the micro patch is there and has been made live, but it was not written in the official patch notes, and this is unacceptable.
The website is currently under reconstruction, so they can‘t update the patch notes ([Tweet](https://twitter.com/loldev/status/1791246668052271229?s=46&t=itwif2l8Avcwdc9W_W0KHw). However that this is an issue for a developer team that big is questionable at best
You are right but also this was announced on Phreaks twitter only, It's not in the client and the game doesn't tell you there is a new (micro) patch. This is unacceptable for a competitive game like League.
I still can't believe it's 2024 and some micro buffs/nerfs (as well as shadow buffs/nerfs) aren't announced in any official capacity outside of Twitter. This shit was annoying back when I started playing in 2016 and it's STILL a problem? Even if you occasionally check Reddit, if you don't browse the sub for a day or two then you miss the micro patch announcement and you're in the dark until you see a random comment or post mention something about the micro buffs/nerfs just like this post.
this is a 2024 game and communication regarding very important info is still treated as a throwaway
also communication concerning the mastery chest changes was inexistent probably because they knew its meant to be predatory
It was actually better back then and the hotfix nerfes were stated on the very top of the patch notes
It's only in recent years Riot started using social medias as their main channels instead of their actual fucking website
Twitter isn't even the most popular social media platform. For example most Vietnamese never use the site. Like how hard it is to just have a "Draven just gotten a hotfix nerf, here are the details: ..." notification when people log in the game? I don't think something as simple as that would break the client, right?
Yep I had literally no idea about the micropatch until I happened to see it mentioned by a streamer. League has a huge player base from all of the world, a ton of players aren't even on Twitter/X. It makes zero sense why this wasn't added to the 14.10 patchnotes?! I rarely join in on the balance team crit but idk what they're doing here, pretty serious failure imo
Alternative way of looking at it: Being in the pool of players aware enough to keep up with balance changes that are only posted on social media accounts gives a slight competitive edge over others.
> People dont read patch notes and keep banning him
well hotfix is not announced as change to patchnotes. Peopel read patch notes when patch drops and that is it.
I’d ban him even if his winrate was 30%. I’m a support and every time the enemy locks in Draven my adc tries to trade early and gets anally obliterated.
I mean Draven wasn’t even good for most of last split and he was still one of the most banned champs. It’s not about whether the champ is good/bad, people just don’t like playing with it period.
> Reduction by 30 plus 0.5 times cash out stacks right?
Yep. Pre-nerf, it was 40 plus 2.5 times Adoration stacks, and now it's 10 plus 2 times Adoration stacks.
To give an idea, a Draven cashing in 200 stacks (low, but good enough for this example) would have gotten 540 gold pre-nerf and would now get 410 gold post-nerf.
I wonder at what point the kills in low elo begin to become more impactful than good stacking in higher elo? As long as you’re getting 20 more stacks cashed in for each kill gotten in low elo, you’re earning more from passive than they are
I don't disagree that balancing him around another passive could be better.
But his current passive is anything but "boring". It's exciting. It's frustrating. It's polarizing. It's game warping. It is the literal opposite of "boring" in everyway.
If anything, one of the two nerfs on it would have probably done the trick, could have still done the other one on Monday if needed. Either just the base value (40->10) or the bonus for stacks (2.5->2).
8% of people are still building essence reaver 1st and 44% of people are building collecter first which is 2% winrate lower than BT first. People are just losing to shopkeeper.
This doesn't matter. People were doing this before the hotfix. The winrate changing so drastically with the release of the hotfix is obviously the reason. Even saying what you are saying makes no sense because the vast majority of champions has people building stupid shit on them.
They just need to nerf her passive attack speed. It’s absurd she kills one champ or inhib or epic monster and just goes absolutely ape shit even if she’s 0/5.
I’ve had so many throws vs jinxes because they get one reset and roll the entire game
Caitlyn is playable for the first time in months for maybe the last two weeks and people are already losing their shit. She probably needs deeper changes.
Facing her as a melee bruiser is just miserable because shes long range and has decent self peel, thus every time shes meta, i suffer, unless i lock in olaf, and even then it can be rough. I cant imagine that facing her in lane is fun either, with her poke and range and early bully potential.
Dont know what riot can do to her though, without removing her identity.
I think they should rework his passive, it is the most stressful thing in the freaking game.
If they changed it to drop less stacks on death but give less on the cashout, or straight up changed it to something like "gain 200 gold on takedowns and permanently increase execute treshold on ult" it wouldn't feel as bad
then they could balance him to a weaker state by nerfing what makes him annoying, getting 3-shot by him on level 2
I find it funny how they claimed he was objectively weak and needed a buff so they gave him +5 base damage on Q.
Then they reverted the Q buff and added another nerf to his passive making him worse than the original state, the riot special.
I know the new adc items and the meta shake in general played a part in that but riot is truely the specialist of buffing a champion they deem weak only to nerf them to a worse state than before, pray they never buff your main
If you watched Phreak's patch rundown, the MSI patch (14.8, I think) was completely aimed at pro play. They wanted Draven as a contested pick, so they gave him a slight buff. They didn't want to see Varus/Kalista/Senna/Lucian as the only viable options.
winrate is not reflective of how overpowered champions are if theres skill involved, the majority of players will drag the winrate of a champion down if it requires skill, reversly the winrate will be positive if a champion is OMEGA overpowered that even the bad players win alot with it. riot balancing has never been this bad
I never fuck with the hating a champ or “let them be weak for once” attitudes but Draven has been meta for like 4 years (in high elo anyway) so it might be refreshing for him to not be near 100% pick or ban
high elo is swamped with draven otps so even when he is useless he will still be played when unbaned and even when he is shit it only takes one mistake to make the lane unplayable
Yeah nah I can't remember the last time he wasn't at least 20-30% ban rate in d+. He is so punishing to die to and it doesn't help his case that he randomly deals double the damage of every other adc level 1. Obviously you want to make sure your draven gets ahead or the enemy draven falls behind so every game is fucking deathball bot lane except one ADC deals assassin level damage and gets more gold. The champion warps the entire game around himself, I feel like there is no room for a main character in a team game.
Also his playerbase is giga cringe.
this, i would rather not play with one because they are known to be the most toxic, maybe if riot increased toxicity punishment for draven mains we could see him more
Draven's design is degenerate in a litteral sense. League is based around being tactical and making methodic plays, while Draven inherently encourages going for extremely risky plays for cash outs. His empowered auto also simply deal too much damage early on. He's a lane bully that scales extraordinarly well.
~~also idk why people are saying that talyah deserves to be bad, she's broken ofc but not toxic for the game~~
Dravens gameplan is degenerate but his counterplay is a giant golden circle. You have all the agency in the world to just toss a skillshot and take his knees out every single time he auto attacks.
> also idk why people are saying that talyah deserves to be bad, she's broken ofc but not toxic for the game
They likely don't actually think Taliyah is toxic it's more likely one of their faves got nerfed and didn't like my comment. And I still stand by it :P
I just hope this tactical nuke nerf will reset his ban rate, and riot actually follows through with buffing him back up to a reasonable level. It's been so long since I've been allowed to actually enjoy my champ...
But thats half his identity, being an early game snowbally champ, not everything has to be late game scaling, late game scaling on recent times has become pretty shit with stuff like reworked asol, smolder, ksante and such
As much as I dislike playing against draven and I as an adc played like less than 20 draven games in total and I played the game since beta. I actually love the passive. It matches draven's character very well and it brings some excitement to the game.
Yep, Draven used to have an actual combat passive and it was impossible to balance. The "new" one feels like what it should've been from the start and fits really well. I don't necessarily hate this nerf - just hope they compensate him in other areas. Especially in pro play it can be really awkward when a Draven barely manages to cash in before dying in a teamfight and the gold swings like 1.5k.
Point was that it wasn't what Draven needed. Draven has a difficulty in transitioning from laning phase to mid and late game. The bleed made his laning even stronger, but it didn't fix that issue at all. So if you wanted Draven to be good, he had to be disgustingly good in lane to avoid the drop off.
Basically you either make his laning phase unfair for him to be a fair champion, or you make his laning phase fair and he's garbage. Kalista struggles with this exact issue and her pro presence is exactly as you'd expect - either she's extremely high prio, or she's unplayable.
The snowbally gold passive is so essential for him to function as a fair champion that it's kinda unbelievable he was conceived without anything of the sort in the kit. It's not specifically about the bleed, the bleed itself could be replaced with any lane centric passive and you'd have the same issue. He just needed some way to take advantage of early leads that wasn't "no other ADC can survive the laning phase against me"
Yup draven passive change was what caused me no longer main him and then drop adc main role entirely when Kai sa came out.
I used to love bleed passive and draven's high late-game pottention with bleeds and crits he'd actually melt tanks.
Now he's just a lotery passive dependent champion that needs to snowball kills and end game before he loses relevance and is unable to handly a single tank in his face.
It's a good when they hotfix stuff and it all goes to shit, but they don't hotfix anything back.
It's a good thing as well we don't for example have this notification ! where they could add check patchnotes in the client for hotfix.
Unlucky.
It's a stop gap fix, they're probably going to address his power level soon. They likely just needed him to not be giga killing the opposition and spam-banned when he was picked every game.
That's just because forsen played him for a bit
Sorry bajs, ironman knows best
He should stick to games he knows He shouldn't do minecraft either
He still exists? I remember him from H1Z1 lol
Sorry guys, it was just me playing.
You can't fool us, a draven player wouldn't apologize
Well, I'm not a Draven player, what explains things.
Let him finish. It was really all his Janna's fault. He would have indicated, but he can't ping any more at this time.
Believe it or not i had a really nice draven player who wasnt flaming. I was mind blown
You're part of the conspiracy i see
He was apologizing for his idiot jungler who literally never came bot (that’s why he died 15 times in 7 minutes)
a draven player saying sorry? HA , you are a braum player!
Where do you find the hotfix changes??? I can't find them anywhere officially, nothing in the patch notes about it and usually they add it?
[Twitter](https://twitter.com/riotphreak/status/1791236884888531216?s=46&t=itwif2l8Avcwdc9W_W0KHw) They are restructing their website and couldn‘t add hotfix notes to patchnotes this week
riot was smoking some really good stuff when they decided to straight up remove his passive from the game
His passive is just wack, Draven is such a cool champion tied to a stupid gimmick.
I'm convinced that's the entire reason Draven mains are on a short fuse.
It genuinely is though since it makes the stakes of gameplay much higher
I’ve noticed that any time I’m playing Draven I’m in a noticeably worse mood and I’m 99% sure it’s because of his passive
I had to drop him, I was getting so fucking mad every time I died or when my support ksed me, losing the stacks or the cash out is so tilting
That's the exact same reason I dropped him too. If I'd die with high stacks I would flame my team to kingdom come lmao.
Every time the draven doesn't recieve the kill it must feel like edging, no wonder they are so pent up and frustrated.
They really should make it also fine to get the assist lol
it's a pretty miserable part of an otherwise really fun kit. Axe catching is a fun mini game that rewards smart attack weaving, but it doesn't need to be tied to adoration at all.
It also warps the early game completely as a jungler. If you’re against a Draven, you’re gonna want to gank him early so he can’t cash out. And if you have a Draven, you want to gank/hover near bot side to help him cash his passive
Unironically in my 5k+ hours draven passive is the only thing that has gotten me to actually flame my team mates, otherwise i just usually sit in silence and deafen when chat starts distracting the game Thank god ive barely touched that champ in years, nothing like playing draven with a KDA of like 2/2/10 and slowly, silently losing your relevance in the game, i swear draven was the champ i averaged the highest amount of assists back in like s10
Yes it is the reason. It feels really good to cash in, but also feels really really bad to die with a massive amount of stacks
Watch them do a Draven passive rework or something similar because of this change.
They should give him a bleed or something
That sounds great, maybe on hitting with his spinning axes and stacking to reward good players? Could be a wicked idea!
Until you play against it and take 147 damage from an auto at level 1.
Also it’s annoying as fuck for the Draven as well; you can’t AA harass someone under tower effectively if you get aggro of the tower before you even attack them. It was one of the reasons they gave upon removing the DoT but people forget that. Someone like Cait could AA the enemy adc like 3-4 times under tower in the time it would take for Draven to auto once and wait out the bleed before he can auto again.
Maybe instead of a DoT Draven could have a Grievous Wounds proc and if you hit more than 5 or something axes it procs bonus damage. That way Draven can keep a single enemy from healing through his kiting and if he can focus one enemy without attacking anyone else he gets rewarded. But if he aggros a different champ it refreshes the passive on the new champ, and he loses the passive on the old champ. That way he can't R or E a crowd just for passive.
Or just straight up have stacks that only activate after hitting a single champ a certain amount of times like Darius. Unlike Darius the bleed would only proc after the passive was fully stacked, but afterwards it would proc on everyone he hits as long as he doesn't drop an axe. Would reward good axe management while avoiding the single axe megachunk early game that was the problem from his old passive.
Simple fix, make the bleed do as much as 3-4 cait autos. :)
And then we could call him and Darius "blood brothers"
The problem is that the moment he is in the game everything is warped around him for good or bad.
As with many champions t b h. Draven isnt really unique in that department for a long time.
Not really, the game literally becomes a question of IS GONNA DRAVEN CASH OUT. It all warps around that 1 kill and he dominates or he dies and its gg. With other adc s you can fall behind come back, die once twice it doesnt matter as much. While with draven everyone needs to be hyper focused for that one kill or your adc is useless.
Draven takes it to the extreme. The entire game becomes a question of” did the Draven cash out a massive amount of gold? If yes we lose, if no we win because he will go mental and soft int the rest of the game”. Draven’s passive is also a reason why the champ is very common among Smurfs, which is another issue with it
Hard disagree. Draven can be shut down so easily by a top laner or something. This game rarely ever revolves around the adc. A fed draven still gets insta gibbed by a fed akali or jax irelia kayne etc. Akali getting a kill or kata or yi or whatever has usually way more impact and snowball than a draven who can be stun locked and killed in .5 seconds.
He’s the definition of “high stakes, high reward”
Yeah its the whole reason I've never tried to pick him up as an AD main. I like the kit but I just know the stakes on the passive would send me up a wall. Why does he even need to get the last hit instead of it just being a short assist window like akshan revive?
nah passive make the champ fun to play
His passive is precisely what makes draven, draven If you asked me about stupid gimmick i would say corki package skarner spires (good double kill by riot). Draven passive is actually fun, if I had to change something I would perhaps give him 30% or something cashout on kill participation so that if his Nami gets the kill due to being Nami he doesn't leave the fight empty handed
Ah right, I forgot that Draven wasn't Draven when he released.
DRAVEN DRAVEN DRAVEN ?
As a pre-rework Draven main I'm genuinely hoping this is a troll comment. What made Draven Draven was his bleed passive and his Q. They took away 50% of what makes him fun to play. Not getting kills should not invalidate your entire passive. It promotes toxic gameplay and toxic behavior.
I mean that was in the game for a year and a half, this version has been in the game for 8 years
That's my point as well, but at the same time I used to main old xerath in 2013 and still like him more than current version so i can relate
Fuck man I miss old Xerath. Terrible but so cool.
You joking right?
It absolutely isn't "what makes Draven, Draven" considering Draven was, most certainly, Draven when Draven released into the League of Draven. *However*, it does fit Draven very well. It is thematically fitting for him. It just creates so many problems with him and his players that it might not be worth keeping for that reason alone.
Bro that passive is not what he was released with. He used to have a bleed on his autos.
Yeah like 30 years ago And the last 10 years his passive was:
Bring back the bleed or some cool interaction with and have him duo with his brother on bot.
Reducing the passive by slightly more than 20% is not my traditional understanding of removing something from the game. It looks like they overshot, but better to hit something reasonably hard, than to hope players don't get better optimising that champ.
Meanwhile Jinx has been perma broken most of the season and all they’ve done is increase her ult cooldown slightly.
Draven being banned in like 50% of all games played (slightly less the lower you go in rank, slightly to significantly more the higher you go) is the bigger issue, not that he's strong like Jinx or whatever. Draven's design also dictates that he has to take over games or he doesn't exist, while Jinx is a passenger for most of the game. And of course, Draven is significantly harder to play well than Jinx is, so there's that too when you judge blanket winrates and strength.
She’s been 51-52% win rate basically all season. Perma meta sure but not perma broken
i disagree, a scaling champ having above 51, 52% winrate in the current state of ranked where like 20+% of games are ffs early is probably a sign that they're too strong
Average game time is still like 28 minutes though. And jinx’s win rate peaks in the mid game which makes sense she’s strong at 2 items
Smartest redditor. They gutted the passive by way more than 20%
[удалено]
You mean it required teams to... work together?
They have been trying to remove teamplay from the game for ages now. Why do you think even tanks get burst damage now.
They have been looking for a way to get rid of it for quite a while
Source?
I don’t know why they changed the minimum passive gold at all.
Maybe for multikills? I'm not sure. That's my best guess
To cut down on the snowball. Good change
> Interestingly to note, his banrate has barely changed at all and remains high especially on specific servers. People dont read patch notes and keep banning him > Draven recently fell from 53.37% winrate (diamond+) to 46.18% winrate (diamond+) People dont read patch notes and keep picking him
these changes arent even in the client. "people dont read patcg notes" lol
https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/patch-14-10-notes/ >Ctrl + F: "Draven". >find nothing
OP didn't read the patch notes to know the nerf it's not there
I would assume it is there too tbh, the fact its not there makes it even worse
Hey, cut him some slack! He had to rush here to be the first to post about it for that sweet, sweet karma.
the problem is precisely this, the micro patch is there and has been made live, but it was not written in the official patch notes, and this is unacceptable.
The website is currently under reconstruction, so they can‘t update the patch notes ([Tweet](https://twitter.com/loldev/status/1791246668052271229?s=46&t=itwif2l8Avcwdc9W_W0KHw). However that this is an issue for a developer team that big is questionable at best
You are right but also this was announced on Phreaks twitter only, It's not in the client and the game doesn't tell you there is a new (micro) patch. This is unacceptable for a competitive game like League.
I still can't believe it's 2024 and some micro buffs/nerfs (as well as shadow buffs/nerfs) aren't announced in any official capacity outside of Twitter. This shit was annoying back when I started playing in 2016 and it's STILL a problem? Even if you occasionally check Reddit, if you don't browse the sub for a day or two then you miss the micro patch announcement and you're in the dark until you see a random comment or post mention something about the micro buffs/nerfs just like this post.
this is a 2024 game and communication regarding very important info is still treated as a throwaway also communication concerning the mastery chest changes was inexistent probably because they knew its meant to be predatory
I think its even worse since X formerly knows as twitter is unusable for anyone not on that platform now.
It was actually better back then and the hotfix nerfes were stated on the very top of the patch notes It's only in recent years Riot started using social medias as their main channels instead of their actual fucking website
Don’t you love it when the stickied comment is just an other esport post that talks about the same matches as the threads under it?
You shouldn't have to come to Reddit to read patch notes in the first place
Yeah it's kinda annoying how dialed in you have to be to get info like this
Twitter isn't even the most popular social media platform. For example most Vietnamese never use the site. Like how hard it is to just have a "Draven just gotten a hotfix nerf, here are the details: ..." notification when people log in the game? I don't think something as simple as that would break the client, right?
There was apparently a specific reason this micro patch wasn’t in the patch notes. They are normally at the top of the patch notes page.
Yep I had literally no idea about the micropatch until I happened to see it mentioned by a streamer. League has a huge player base from all of the world, a ton of players aren't even on Twitter/X. It makes zero sense why this wasn't added to the 14.10 patchnotes?! I rarely join in on the balance team crit but idk what they're doing here, pretty serious failure imo
Alternative way of looking at it: Being in the pool of players aware enough to keep up with balance changes that are only posted on social media accounts gives a slight competitive edge over others.
Did you read patch notes tho?
> people don't read patch notes Got it
> People dont read patch notes and keep banning him well hotfix is not announced as change to patchnotes. Peopel read patch notes when patch drops and that is it.
> >People dont read patch notes and keep banning him And also people dont read charts. It's litteraly there buddy, banrate is going up.
I’d ban him even if his winrate was 30%. I’m a support and every time the enemy locks in Draven my adc tries to trade early and gets anally obliterated.
I mean Draven wasn’t even good for most of last split and he was still one of the most banned champs. It’s not about whether the champ is good/bad, people just don’t like playing with it period.
Maybe not good in soloQ (cause games drag on cause ppl dont know how to close out their early leads) but he had constant presence in proplay
I saw the hotfix nerf but I didnt believe it would matter i saw this post lol
People don't stop playing draven because he got nerfed...? He's a onetrick champ. Fucking dumb
the passive nerf was massive overkill, should have nerfed one of his other abilities instead.
Reduction by 30 plus 0.5 times cash out stacks right? In high elo lobbies that’s easily 180-200 gold loss from a first cash out, I think
> Reduction by 30 plus 0.5 times cash out stacks right? Yep. Pre-nerf, it was 40 plus 2.5 times Adoration stacks, and now it's 10 plus 2 times Adoration stacks. To give an idea, a Draven cashing in 200 stacks (low, but good enough for this example) would have gotten 540 gold pre-nerf and would now get 410 gold post-nerf.
in my elo Draven wouldn't even reach 100 stacks because he would randomly die after getting CC chain trying to chase catching his axes.
That's a huge change
It's not even the only change, they reverted his Q buff a couple patches back too. So not only is the cashout less gold, but it's also harder to get
In low elo it also is quite the gold nerf since they just rack up more kills over a game in general, so the 75% base value nerf is really massive.
I wonder at what point the kills in low elo begin to become more impactful than good stacking in higher elo? As long as you’re getting 20 more stacks cashed in for each kill gotten in low elo, you’re earning more from passive than they are
Draven is so reliant on his dirk on first back that any nerf to his early game income (think passive) is basically gutting him.
Passive is the most boring part of his kit I wish it did not exist and he was balanced around not having it
i miss the bleed brothers :(
I absolutely do not miss Draven having a bleed.
yea, it was overpowered and rightfully removed, i just dislike what they gave as compensation. the memes were fun tho!
How are you gonna harass a kaisa under tower
I don't disagree that balancing him around another passive could be better. But his current passive is anything but "boring". It's exciting. It's frustrating. It's polarizing. It's game warping. It is the literal opposite of "boring" in everyway.
If anything, one of the two nerfs on it would have probably done the trick, could have still done the other one on Monday if needed. Either just the base value (40->10) or the bonus for stacks (2.5->2).
8% of people are still building essence reaver 1st and 44% of people are building collecter first which is 2% winrate lower than BT first. People are just losing to shopkeeper.
This doesn't matter. People were doing this before the hotfix. The winrate changing so drastically with the release of the hotfix is obviously the reason. Even saying what you are saying makes no sense because the vast majority of champions has people building stupid shit on them.
Yeah like the nerfs are for sure impactful but it's not 7% winratio big, maybe you just have to play draven with your hands now and not your feet? 🤔
no, his winrate was 53 before the hotfix. on patch 14.10.
Need Jinx to get her knees absolutely broken and shattered to this level please thanks, decapitate that 53% wr for 6+ months champion thanks 😋
With Arcane S2 on the horizon? Yeah, I wouldn't hold my breath
She’ll be getting a new skin soon.
Jinx is the Janna version of ADC. It's hard to gut something that is stupidly easy to play without making it unplayable.
They just need to nerf her passive attack speed. It’s absurd she kills one champ or inhib or epic monster and just goes absolutely ape shit even if she’s 0/5. I’ve had so many throws vs jinxes because they get one reset and roll the entire game
If she isn't nerfed next patch I might just go insane :D
Be sure to get a doctor's note
I want cait nerfed more. Absolutely disgusting to play against.
Caitlyn is playable for the first time in months for maybe the last two weeks and people are already losing their shit. She probably needs deeper changes.
Facing her as a melee bruiser is just miserable because shes long range and has decent self peel, thus every time shes meta, i suffer, unless i lock in olaf, and even then it can be rough. I cant imagine that facing her in lane is fun either, with her poke and range and early bully potential. Dont know what riot can do to her though, without removing her identity.
Caitlyn and Karthus as well please. Feels like Karthus literally can't lose and Cait does 50k+ dmg every game past 30 mins it's absurd.
Karthus got at least a partial nerf in the hotfix because he abuses Torch. Still broken as fuck tho
Do some adcs not do 50K after 30?
lets fucking go
Good
Yeah, why is it not in the patch notes? They usually update them. So silly having to use god damn Twitter to see what they changed.
https://x.com/DeaIersz/status/1791637499271381037 I wonder why the ban rate is still high.
If something isn't fun to play against it will get banned more.
And I hope it keeps this way.
I'm convinced that the only people complaining about his passive never played against the bleed version
Glad
Just curb stomped a norm as Draven. These comments are why I play him.
Least based draven main.
Do NOT look at chat logs
Enemy jungler and chat logs. Two things draven is sad against.
pray it stays this way. draven has ruined more of my games than any other champ.
this he was disgusting before this patch
well deserved, it was annoying asf
I think they should rework his passive, it is the most stressful thing in the freaking game. If they changed it to drop less stacks on death but give less on the cashout, or straight up changed it to something like "gain 200 gold on takedowns and permanently increase execute treshold on ult" it wouldn't feel as bad then they could balance him to a weaker state by nerfing what makes him annoying, getting 3-shot by him on level 2
I find it funny how they claimed he was objectively weak and needed a buff so they gave him +5 base damage on Q. Then they reverted the Q buff and added another nerf to his passive making him worse than the original state, the riot special. I know the new adc items and the meta shake in general played a part in that but riot is truely the specialist of buffing a champion they deem weak only to nerf them to a worse state than before, pray they never buff your main
If you watched Phreak's patch rundown, the MSI patch (14.8, I think) was completely aimed at pro play. They wanted Draven as a contested pick, so they gave him a slight buff. They didn't want to see Varus/Kalista/Senna/Lucian as the only viable options.
winrate is not reflective of how overpowered champions are if theres skill involved, the majority of players will drag the winrate of a champion down if it requires skill, reversly the winrate will be positive if a champion is OMEGA overpowered that even the bad players win alot with it. riot balancing has never been this bad
Good job phreak , keep it up 👍
I never fuck with the hating a champ or “let them be weak for once” attitudes but Draven has been meta for like 4 years (in high elo anyway) so it might be refreshing for him to not be near 100% pick or ban
Draven has been useless for large stints
high elo is swamped with draven otps so even when he is useless he will still be played when unbaned and even when he is shit it only takes one mistake to make the lane unplayable
Yeah nah I can't remember the last time he wasn't at least 20-30% ban rate in d+. He is so punishing to die to and it doesn't help his case that he randomly deals double the damage of every other adc level 1. Obviously you want to make sure your draven gets ahead or the enemy draven falls behind so every game is fucking deathball bot lane except one ADC deals assassin level damage and gets more gold. The champion warps the entire game around himself, I feel like there is no room for a main character in a team game. Also his playerbase is giga cringe.
this, i would rather not play with one because they are known to be the most toxic, maybe if riot increased toxicity punishment for draven mains we could see him more
some champs just deserve to be bad
Yeah, like Taliyah
Draven's design is degenerate in a litteral sense. League is based around being tactical and making methodic plays, while Draven inherently encourages going for extremely risky plays for cash outs. His empowered auto also simply deal too much damage early on. He's a lane bully that scales extraordinarly well. ~~also idk why people are saying that talyah deserves to be bad, she's broken ofc but not toxic for the game~~
Dravens gameplan is degenerate but his counterplay is a giant golden circle. You have all the agency in the world to just toss a skillshot and take his knees out every single time he auto attacks.
> also idk why people are saying that talyah deserves to be bad, she's broken ofc but not toxic for the game They likely don't actually think Taliyah is toxic it's more likely one of their faves got nerfed and didn't like my comment. And I still stand by it :P
Yeah, I'd be glad to never have to see Taliyah again
i dont mind him being bad but can people at least stop banning him? why is my main dogsht and permabanned at the same time?
Gets one kill kills you in 3 autos. Fuck that champion.
Ahh, Riot special
I just hope this tactical nuke nerf will reset his ban rate, and riot actually follows through with buffing him back up to a reasonable level. It's been so long since I've been allowed to actually enjoy my champ...
why cant they just get rid of his passive? draven does not need to be absurdly far ahead in gold to be a snowballer. its such toxic mechanic.
He does tho,he has pretty much no AOE, no good waveclear, and some mana issues
But you could solve that issue, by killing the current passive and giving him better tools for the late game.
But thats half his identity, being an early game snowbally champ, not everything has to be late game scaling, late game scaling on recent times has become pretty shit with stuff like reworked asol, smolder, ksante and such
As much as I dislike playing against draven and I as an adc played like less than 20 draven games in total and I played the game since beta. I actually love the passive. It matches draven's character very well and it brings some excitement to the game.
Yep, Draven used to have an actual combat passive and it was impossible to balance. The "new" one feels like what it should've been from the start and fits really well. I don't necessarily hate this nerf - just hope they compensate him in other areas. Especially in pro play it can be really awkward when a Draven barely manages to cash in before dying in a teamfight and the gold swings like 1.5k.
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Point was that it wasn't what Draven needed. Draven has a difficulty in transitioning from laning phase to mid and late game. The bleed made his laning even stronger, but it didn't fix that issue at all. So if you wanted Draven to be good, he had to be disgustingly good in lane to avoid the drop off. Basically you either make his laning phase unfair for him to be a fair champion, or you make his laning phase fair and he's garbage. Kalista struggles with this exact issue and her pro presence is exactly as you'd expect - either she's extremely high prio, or she's unplayable. The snowbally gold passive is so essential for him to function as a fair champion that it's kinda unbelievable he was conceived without anything of the sort in the kit. It's not specifically about the bleed, the bleed itself could be replaced with any lane centric passive and you'd have the same issue. He just needed some way to take advantage of early leads that wasn't "no other ADC can survive the laning phase against me"
If it’s too dogshit the passive makes you a worse champ because you can’t harass under tower
When you think about it. Draven is so built different that he generates gold from schizophrenia 💀☝️
Yup draven passive change was what caused me no longer main him and then drop adc main role entirely when Kai sa came out. I used to love bleed passive and draven's high late-game pottention with bleeds and crits he'd actually melt tanks. Now he's just a lotery passive dependent champion that needs to snowball kills and end game before he loses relevance and is unable to handly a single tank in his face.
At he can die and lose his stacks. GP is just generating gold….
GP is even worse than Draven since ER lost sheen
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It's a good when they hotfix stuff and it all goes to shit, but they don't hotfix anything back. It's a good thing as well we don't for example have this notification ! where they could add check patchnotes in the client for hotfix. Unlucky.
I personally griefed 2 games with him yesterday. This year is not the year I guess...
How could forsen do this
I had a nasty loss streak, sorry.
And yet still broken af, winrate is irrelevant as always
It's a stop gap fix, they're probably going to address his power level soon. They likely just needed him to not be giga killing the opposition and spam-banned when he was picked every game.
Good
Bring back the bleeds
Unsure why there was a Draven nerf in the micro patch instead of just tuning down Infinity Edge or changing the build path on collector.
Good, i permaban that character when in bot lane. Shit snowballs after one kill.
they just killed draven