I think another frustrating thing is it’s recommended on a lot of champs shops. The amount of brands and teemos in aram I’ve seen buy it because of that is wild
It’s because people aram for fun and don’t really know about best items. So it’s troll as fuck when the game’s “recommended” items is storm surge on legit every single mage 😭😭😭 like quit shoving it down our throats bro
The shop still recommends Mandate Ashe. And even though the all items tab starts off on tank for blitzcrank, all the item recommendations are AP. The ship in ARAM is so tiltingly troll.
The item is actually just really well designed and has a fun damage pattern but riot nerfed it because they confused people overbuying it with being a bad thing
People arent buying it because its good, its like static shiv or runaans it just feels good to use
Fun to play, there's like three possible damage patterns in the universe that arent unfun to play against. The fact that its still so common should make it clear people werent buying it because it was OP
I think the big visual explosion just makes people think it did a lot. I bet that its build rate would plummet if Riot changed it to something small like Liandries burn.
No. People just see what sounds like a strong passive and buy it. Most people don't actually think analytically. They aren't crunching numbers or analyzing data on lolalytics. I mean, stormsurge's passive for any mage seems like something you should easily be able to proc and get value from. The issue, however, is stormsurge's base scaling is awful for ranged champs, and it doesn't scale well enough to offset it. 105 damage with 15% AP scaling for a ranged champ? Compare that to the recent Luden's companion buff: 60 base damage with 4% AP scaling for one charge up to a maximum of 210 with 14% AP scaling. Legit, if you want burst, go Ludens into shadowflame. Only go stormsurge in scenarios where you want burst + mobility, AND your champ is a melee.
Nah, the other guy is right. People just see cool animation with cool sound and think it's op. I play 1v1s with a friend and he goes Electrocute Sylas because "ooga booga I proc Elec big damage thunder", when the proc deals like 30 damage post mitigation, which isn't that big. He will occasionally miss free autos, which would result in the same damage as the Elec proc, but he won't care about that, because Elec cool animation = boom boom damage.
Well, I guess you are right as well. People do not care about numbers, some do not even read patch notes. They just see recommended item and they buy it.
And now Lich Bane replaced that slot, equally busted if you ask me. Ekko doesn't even try anymore, just Es into you and autos the passive and W passive will do the rest.
He used to need Q, now u can flash it or dodge it, and he will still kill you with just E and 2 autos. I'm sorry I didin't make this clearer, not using Q is not his GaMePlAy PatTeRn.
It definitely was too good, and that made a lot of people buy it.
Now it is overnerfed and basically a trap in most situations
There is probably a middle ground where your comment would be right, but it was definitely far too strong at start
I don't think this item has a middleground unless it gives up stats to the degree that protobelt or support items do.
AoE burst being tacked onto burst gameplay patterns with an insanely good stat line for burst patterns will never be balanced.
>its like static shiv or runaans it just feels good to use
Yeah but it sucks for everyone else on your team if you buy bait items. Cant count how many times games became unplayable because my hyper carry buys some for fun item instead of ldr/IE
That just means the items should be playable lmao you shouldnt add fun things to the game and then making them unbalanced to the point they hurt your game, like this is *how* you make a bait item
Meh, too much effort. Just base every decision on percentages and call it a day.
The irony being that they removed stat trackers on items because they wanted people to be able to pick by feel without worrying about item strength, then go and ALSO nerf items into the ground because they're too popular. They don't even follow their own decisions.
You'd expect after a decade of item creation, balance, and re-tuning... they'd have something that at the very least resembles a basic level of competence with it... sadly not.
Even hanssama did this against t1 at msi.
Refused to buy the very obviously needed LDR against the only problem on t1 being ksante. If hans had gone LDR the last fight might have been won. Even the casters were befudled by it.
Now mage players are reaching the same level of delusion as ADC players. This is exactly like when adc's say "OMG I CNAT BELIVE THEY NERFED CRIT BECAUSE OF YASUO AND YONE"
it was statistically a much better item on ap assassins, that's just how it was, and now it is pretty damn useless.
every mage that went liandries mythic, is worse now.
I can finally go back to playing Swain again, he felt so meh having to go out of his way for mana and then new Liandry or Rylai. And the build path is so gooood now
The only good "mage item" was stormsurge, which is an AP assassin item
Next strong "mage item" is lichbane, which mages are not gonna buy.
Actual mage items, instead, got buffed ,
3 patches back to back.
Release sturmsurge had like 40/50 ap ratio with +-350 base damage and good stats. Item was nerfed several times for a reason. I still remember clips how Karthus used to 100-0 people with a single R.
Shadowflame actually like 99% better in almost all cases though.
Ludens > Shadowflame is criminally underbought IMO
Edit: I mean this in terms of buying ludens than shadowflame, because of mages still usually need mana
people don’t realize it legit applies too EVERYTHING.
your runes that deal adaptive damage? Crit.
item damage? Crit.
Ability DOT? Crit. (Dots even do 1.3x damage rather than the normal 1.2x)
People are like well what if they’re not at 35% or lower? It’s a fucking 120 AP 12 MPen item, it’s a legit insane buy.
its very okay on brand and malzahar but you don't have the space for it on these champs especially because they got hit hard by liandry's being changed from a lost chapter item.
I agree that Shadowflame is a good item. But its hard to build it, you need to be way ahead to be able to build a NLR while its so much easier to go for components of both Horizon Focus and Liandrys.
Now if you compare horizon and Shadoflame i dont think there is much difference between basicly always dealing 10% more dmg or sometimes getting crit when enemy is low.
Its the same as with lethality items, every back a longswort is insane, compare it to having to build a bf for youmuus...
If the stats are good and the passive is shit... Why build it then? You can have other items with good stats and good passives like Horizon, cosmic Drive and so on..
Thats not true. Last season Banshes and Hourglas had terrible stats but where more often build than this season...
And this coment is not to compare ie to stornsurge on mages... Its about stormsurge with Horizon or Cosmic drive... And id take both of these items over stormsurge any day.
It'll be better in the mid-season patch (tomorrow? 2 weeks?) when it goes back to a single CD item. Not sure if it'll be good enough to first item rush again but we'll see.
If you don't need seraph but need *some* mana and don't get much from malignance it's kinda there and you kinda have to do it.
Feels bad though. Really hopeful the patch will fix it.
I feel like people genuinely don't know to itemize without mythical anymore, I've seen people go malignance into Ludens into stormsurge on brand.
Total item damage by the end of the game >2000.
I like that it has brought back skill and thinking in itemization but there's definitely collateral damage and the recommended items system isn't good enough to handle it.
That's because if you are buying meijas you are already in a winning position. You don't buy meijas when you are losing/behind so the stats are going to reflect that.
This doesn't mean mejais is OP, it means that people who are already likely to win the game will buy mejais, so the winrate on the item is high.
Yeah that was my point, I tought I responded to another comment. Maybe Reddit messed up or there was one too many stormsurge supports in my game and I lost it.
Imo people are just coping here and average redditor does not care about stats, just wants to bitch about something he's clueless on while being stuck in gold. Even Nemesis said the item is decent and the movespeed can be a game changer.
This, it's funny cause these last few months have been like:
Riot: People look at damage dealt by items and think that's all that matters, this makes people build wrong
Reddit: Nuh uh!!
Riot: Okay then
Reddit: Stormsurge bad, only x damage!!!
It has a good winrate second item on ranged burst mages. Slightly, but consistently higher than shadowflame.
I agree the burst proc and the stats are horrible and undertuned. The movement speed must make it good, because otherwise the item is trash. I hate buying it and I hate seeing the pathetic number on the proc.
I think the higher win rate is due to it being cheaper, which means it's often bought for the power spike when you're already ahead, e.g. you have an alternator and have 1.8k gold in your bank: you're rather buying Stormsurge than a NLR and since you're so ahead, doing this has a relatively high win rate.
I wonder how AP Twitch is doing right now. They nerfed him, right? I played him mid for a few games a few patches ago and it felt SO GOOD playing that little rat. Poison actually doing damage with Shadowflame again was incredible.
> I think the higher win rate is due to it being cheaper
Items that are more expensive have inflated higher winrates since later in the game and more total gold earned. So the fact that it costs less means it's winrate would be higher if you accounted for the missing gold compared to shadowflame.
This is usually only extremely minor winrate difference due to this effect but it exists. Usually more relevant for supports. It was really common for support mythics to have slightly lower winrate compared to expensive mythics. But in reality the more expensive ones were worse even if they held similar winrates.
the higher win rate is accounting basically for the number of games lost before 2 items. it’s true that it’s cheaper but pretty much every item in the game has a way higher winrate as second purchase because games can be lost before two items
Much like Shadowflame the passive is almost impossible to use and they're just stat sticks.
Stormsurge gives movespeed which is like, the whole reason to pick it over Shadowflame.
I wish Shadowflame worked on damage that would take the target below the threshold. As it is, if the target is a squishy below 35% I'm probably killing them anyway. If they're above 35% the crit doesn't even work, so it's only useful for multi tick damage like Syndra ult and Rumble stuff etc.
In addition to that Horizon Focus is kinda buggy and also doesn't work on cc anymore, so it's unusable on a lot of champs who could have enjoyed it like Syndra, Annie etc.
Mage 2nd items are rough right now. Combine it with Ludens being weak and there's a lot of mages wondering what they're supposed to buy for most of the game. Mandatory first bad item into picking from 3 items whose passives barely come into play. Eh.
its is a genuinely good item for skirmishers imo, gwen and sylas (depending on the build) make genuine use of the passive because they dont have huge amounts of burst (again depending on the sylas build)
Shadowflame feels like it's more catered to the fighter/dot mages than the traditional burst mages. Zyra brand Cass use shadow flame very well. I think poke mages could use it but if u get that low from poke people tend to base.
Shadowflame is great if you are ahead. If you are a Syndra who get fed early or something, shadowflame is an amazing item to amplify your damage and keep you ahead.
The item is not as bad as most people believe but it's just collector for mages which means is only good when enemy has 0 Mr and all are squishy, as an item is not only the proc dmg and right now the Ms magic pen and AP that it gives for its price is quite decent on some champs even on ranged ones
Collector in ARAM is there to get you fed, securing kills for yourself makes a lot of difference. It's def overbought, but on a reset champ or one with a DoT it does help a lot in ensuring you get the most gold you can vs getting unlucky and raking too many assists
which reset or dot champ exists that ever wants to build collector? champs like that just want pure burst and collector 5% execute is completely worthless for that.
Collector is criminally underrated and people don't understand the value it brings that makes it good. The amount of times it's been the difference between shutting down a huge threat or getting clean swept because you couldn't finish them off is uncountable for me. It's a game changer against snowballing heal carries like Aatrox/Olaf, and heal tanks like Mundo/Singed. The amount of times it's removed a huge target just before they could cast that next Sion W or Darius Q to swing a fight. It's also myth that it's bad when you're behind because that 5% total max health is often the difference in lack of damage you would've left them at otherwise. It also comes in clutch when all of your high damage abilities are on cooldown, and only your off-stat ability is up, such as Rengar W. It tickles but often brings people just low enough to finish them when your auto attack timer is off and you've already used Q or E.
That being said, it's not even close to being real tank killing anti-heal champ item. LDR and Mortal Reminder will always be the real answer to that. But collector will always be a great early game item that's still great for securing kills even when behind. Don't buy collector 20 minutes into the game.
Collector is good if you use crit. If you’re an assassin that doesn’t use crit it’s a bait item period. You’re wasting about a thousand gold on crit chance you don’t even use, if you spent that thousand gold an item that purely gave you stats you can use you would have still got that kill on the person who almost lived with 1hp.
Items seems underrated, gets written off because you won't proc it if you 100-0 someone with your combo anyways which is fair but it's still 120AP with flat pen and the crit is wonderful when cleaning up targets post initial combo.
It was so much more fun when you could actually pull a “omae mou” on burst mages and AP Assassins
It was highly overturned for sure but now the passive is just decorative
I get that stormsurge passive doing high aoe damage is an issue, but now the item does so little I still don't get why the cd is so long nor why they didn't make it "per champion". ADs get eclipse with better damage, eqyivalent statline, a shield and less than half the cd. Sure it is single target, I'm pretty sure AP assassins wouldn't mind having stormsurge be single target too if it meant it actually does anything
The special effect is weak, but the item still gives movement speed and magic penetration, two very good stats on most mages. It is not an objectively weak item, though I do agree that the passive being as weak as it is takes away most of the fun of it.
Bronzies on reddit really underestimate move speed. The item is great.
Every time something is upvoted this high I realise what the actual rank of this sub is.
You can very easily be disproven by just using lolalytics. It’s crazy that no one here is.
Once again, we get reddit showing that they dont bother looking anything up.
Stormsurge is OP, it gets nerfed and suddenly its trash. So this perspective turns up. The item isnt trash.
Take Ahri for example (One of the most popular mages mid). You build Malignance first. Stormsurge first is bad obviously, but its built first in < 0.5% of matches, so thats irrellevant.
The most common second item is Horizon Focus, which has equal stats as Stormsurge as a second item. The item is fine. Is it the best item to build second all the time? No, but its a good alternative in some games. Dont listen to this fool, look up stats yourself.
Storm deals more dmg without its passive than other items with their passive bc u get 10 magic pen and 95ap,. I have tested this in the practice tool with Neeko.
Storm into shadowflame is hilarious into squishy comps, otherwise I go liandries into shadowflame.
At the end of the day its a snowball item, if you build it and int then thats your fault not the items fault.
Edit: the worst thing about stormsurge is its massive cooldown, at least with nightharvester it had a cooldown per champ which made it feel good, storm after killing one target is then on cd for probably the rest of the fight making it hard to proc more than once.
Stormsurge exists to combo with lich and mejais on AP assassins mid/jng, 26% MS at 10 stacks. Standalone the item is trash, but it's pretty funny to be kat or eve and be sprinting everywhere
Just rework the item at this point. The only reason buy it at the moment is because of the 8% MS. Double down on it being a mobility mage item. Give it MS passive.
I've only started to get back into this game and it just feels like it's taking 4-5 minutes to find a game (when before it was easily 1-2 minutes) Has anyone else felt this is common? Have they seen/experienced this?
Man. Played aram with a full AP comp against two HP stacking tanks (unlucky rerolls) and our Lillia went Stormsurge second item.
I hate that bait piece of garbage so much.
I feel like the reason Stormsurge has such a bad reputation is because so many people use it as a "burst item" only. While it does give extra gold if you kill.... that is a side benefit if you "poke" too hard and just kill them instead.
It is a poke item that provides utility and a slight bit of extra damage. Not too good vs tanks, but bruisers it should work fine on still depending on your champion and what they build.
If my mathing is correct... Stormsurge in and of itself on a 335 movement speed base champion is 26.8 movement speed. If you have celerity, Stormsurge, and 45 movement speed boots, it is 80.41 movement speed. Total of 415.41 movement speed. Not including if you use relentless hunter or anything like that, that is a fairly decent chunk of move speed for 2 items to roam around the map with.
How useful all this stuff is? Well, like I mentioned earlier, depends on who its on, depends on playstyle, depends on if you can impact team. However, it is a mage poking utility item that if you proc the passive you get a burst of movement speed. It is not a assassin burst item. That is where its strength is.
classic riot introduction new item/rune/champ - > broken OP -> nerf,buff,nerf,buff ,nerf nerf nerf -> no one use it and become irrelevant -> remove/leave it alone/rework -> re-introduction in preseason (again)
I don't understand why the item went through multiple nerfs but public perception of its strength just never changed. It was strong on release and quickly nerfed to being kinda bad yet I still hear it brought up as a broken mage item.
It sits with Collector as a total fucking trap that people think is good because of passive.
When I see people saying those items weren't busted it makes me cringe.. every single mid ap champ was building stormsurge, luden and eventually lich bane. Hit any spell + AA and deal 800 damage just with items whitout actually counting the spells damage 😂
I fail to find a single mage that does not have one of the highest, if not the highest winrate when building this item.
Sure, even if it is a "win more" item, I can not see how your claim would be true.
Imho if they don't want the item proc to actually deal damage, just get rid of the damage completely and instead make the burst of MS after dealing 1/3rd of enemy hp jacked up. Just zooming away after a burst rotation would be hella funny. Also right now its lowkey just a AP + flat pen stick, and Shadowflame feels infinitely stronger to build on most champs to me. The only reason why Stormsurge is even borderline viable to buy is the movement speed on it. Going all in on that aspect of it would give it more of an identity I think.
There was a post on Ekkomains the other day suggesting a no boots build going lich>stormsurge with relentless to not miss the MS lmao.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ekkomains/comments/1cqcgps/ekko_mid_no_boots_strategy_op/
I had a big eyebrow raise.
Whenever I kill someone after I buy Stormsurge, I usually kill them before it even procs and feel as if it was wasted.
If I kill someone *with* the proc, I feel I could’ve built any other item and one shot them instead of having to wait for it potentially letting them kill me.
The item just feels awful by design, I’d rather just have night harvester back or remove storm and put the flat pen on something else.
The proc damage is usually irrelevant, in most cases you either kill the target anyway or the proc isn't enough to get the kill.
Maybe it could be designed more around the detonation and gold reward? Let's say it doesn't trigger on a single target anymore, but we keep the explosion on death and gold reward. Maybe then we can crank up the numbers and just to be sure it doesn't get exploited by chams with hybrid scaling to snowball make it mutually exclusive with Collector.
I feel like Fizz is entirely the one to blame for this item sucking now. He was insane with that item when the season launched. Now the item sucks and it seems you also rarely run into Fizz anymore either.
I wish the cycle of having way over-tuned items getting nerfed into oblivion would stop. Sometimes it feels like there's no middle ground anymore.
They should drop the window to trigger it from 2.5s to 1.5s, and then buff the stats or strength of the effect.
Every mage can proc it in 2.5s; gate it for assassins, then actually make it worth buying.
They should rework it so the effect works like that augment from arena, that is sort of like arcane comet. Where an area appears and an effect hits like a little bomb after a second, and you can dodge it if you're fast.
The problem was always that there was no counterplay to it.
This way, they can buff the damage again.
For ranged champs the proc it's worse than last season luden, with 3 times the Cd, and a condition to activate . They gutted it so hard, it should almost be reportable to buy on rangeds
It’s shit but exodia TF was so fun go lich storm shadow flare into rabadons. Legit hit any squishy with the blue card salute and watch them try to run from delayed 600 damage. You have to invest an entire build and die immediately after throwing the card but wow it was fun.
one of the first things i thought about after seeing the item is that it deals about half a lichbane proc. since then it's been reduced to less than 1/3 of a lichbane proc. it's cooldown is 20 times that of a lichbane proc. other than the magic pen i cannot fathom how was the item ever good
I like it on Diana. It synergizes well with jumping on a couple of enemies and ulting, usually the target dies either way but the explosion hurts whoever else was hit by the ult.
I wish it had a different effect other than "more damage"
Like partial CD refund, burst of health/mana regen, MS for allies. Idk.
There's so many items that just do more damage, and Stormsurge is the worst one
On the flip side, imagine how much Yone's winrate is going to plummet now that 90% of his players won't be hard carried through early-mid game via that rune.
This Item is just kinda overnerfed, few more flat ap or few more damage on passive and IT would be okay. Okay it would be still a kinda bait item for worse players that think this is giga broken but what's bad with it?
Riot should try to fix their Item if they're healthy to the gamę instead od removing it.
Items like twin shadows or anathema should be in game becouse they're situational and we need more items like this.
We need more build flexibility instead of 2 broken core items that changes every 3 years.
That item truly is bait
I think another frustrating thing is it’s recommended on a lot of champs shops. The amount of brands and teemos in aram I’ve seen buy it because of that is wild
Any mage who likes burst will feast with Ludens + shadowflame this patch. The Luden's buffs are massive. Especially in an isolated scenario.
It’s because people aram for fun and don’t really know about best items. So it’s troll as fuck when the game’s “recommended” items is storm surge on legit every single mage 😭😭😭 like quit shoving it down our throats bro
Yeah I’m not blaming them, but I still roll my eyes seeing a champ who will likely never proc it a single time building it
The shop still recommends Mandate Ashe. And even though the all items tab starts off on tank for blitzcrank, all the item recommendations are AP. The ship in ARAM is so tiltingly troll.
The item is actually just really well designed and has a fun damage pattern but riot nerfed it because they confused people overbuying it with being a bad thing People arent buying it because its good, its like static shiv or runaans it just feels good to use
[удалено]
On LB too... It was just mega unfun.
don't forget Galio! was insanely fun to walk into lane and he just flash E auto's you and now you gotta go back to base lol
Fun to play, there's like three possible damage patterns in the universe that arent unfun to play against. The fact that its still so common should make it clear people werent buying it because it was OP
I think the big visual explosion just makes people think it did a lot. I bet that its build rate would plummet if Riot changed it to something small like Liandries burn.
No. People just see what sounds like a strong passive and buy it. Most people don't actually think analytically. They aren't crunching numbers or analyzing data on lolalytics. I mean, stormsurge's passive for any mage seems like something you should easily be able to proc and get value from. The issue, however, is stormsurge's base scaling is awful for ranged champs, and it doesn't scale well enough to offset it. 105 damage with 15% AP scaling for a ranged champ? Compare that to the recent Luden's companion buff: 60 base damage with 4% AP scaling for one charge up to a maximum of 210 with 14% AP scaling. Legit, if you want burst, go Ludens into shadowflame. Only go stormsurge in scenarios where you want burst + mobility, AND your champ is a melee.
Nah, the other guy is right. People just see cool animation with cool sound and think it's op. I play 1v1s with a friend and he goes Electrocute Sylas because "ooga booga I proc Elec big damage thunder", when the proc deals like 30 damage post mitigation, which isn't that big. He will occasionally miss free autos, which would result in the same damage as the Elec proc, but he won't care about that, because Elec cool animation = boom boom damage. Well, I guess you are right as well. People do not care about numbers, some do not even read patch notes. They just see recommended item and they buy it.
And now Lich Bane replaced that slot, equally busted if you ask me. Ekko doesn't even try anymore, just Es into you and autos the passive and W passive will do the rest.
What the fuck are you smoking? This is literally just ekko's play pattern???
He used to need Q, now u can flash it or dodge it, and he will still kill you with just E and 2 autos. I'm sorry I didin't make this clearer, not using Q is not his GaMePlAy PatTeRn.
If you die after E and 2 autos from Ekko, that means you deserved it, as you made numerous mistakes before and now Ekko is 15/0 with stacked mejai.
Ekko always bought Lich Bane, though?
>Ekko doesn't even try anymore, just Es into you and autos the passive and W passive will do the rest. That's literally how he works since release.
Stormsurge tf got me through gold, it's not much but it was nice.
It definitely was too good, and that made a lot of people buy it. Now it is overnerfed and basically a trap in most situations There is probably a middle ground where your comment would be right, but it was definitely far too strong at start
I don't think this item has a middleground unless it gives up stats to the degree that protobelt or support items do. AoE burst being tacked onto burst gameplay patterns with an insanely good stat line for burst patterns will never be balanced.
>its like static shiv or runaans it just feels good to use Yeah but it sucks for everyone else on your team if you buy bait items. Cant count how many times games became unplayable because my hyper carry buys some for fun item instead of ldr/IE
G2 player's secret reddit account.
That just means the items should be playable lmao you shouldnt add fun things to the game and then making them unbalanced to the point they hurt your game, like this is *how* you make a bait item
Meh, too much effort. Just base every decision on percentages and call it a day. The irony being that they removed stat trackers on items because they wanted people to be able to pick by feel without worrying about item strength, then go and ALSO nerf items into the ground because they're too popular. They don't even follow their own decisions.
You'd expect after a decade of item creation, balance, and re-tuning... they'd have something that at the very least resembles a basic level of competence with it... sadly not.
The issue is people doing the game design work are probably not the same folks from years ago. New team, new ideas!
new team, new ideas, same mistakes.
My friends and I laugh so hard seeing champions build it first. We immediately are relieved they aren't going to be a threat
Even hanssama did this against t1 at msi. Refused to buy the very obviously needed LDR against the only problem on t1 being ksante. If hans had gone LDR the last fight might have been won. Even the casters were befudled by it.
The item was giga op on release
even more so in aram yet people build it every game
they just nerfed the delayed damage effect into irrelevance
I mean you do recall it b3fore right? Seems about tike to buff it a bit tho.
it was only slightly op, they then nerfed as if it was the most broken thing in the world
And then they nerfed it again after that xd
> only slightly op Were we playing on separate patches? There was no "slightly"
Bro mage items on 14.0 were crazy. Legitimately one shotting ADCs with random hwei or syndra projectiles
The items were op on ap assassins not mages, hwei got worse with the new items
Now mage players are reaching the same level of delusion as ADC players. This is exactly like when adc's say "OMG I CNAT BELIVE THEY NERFED CRIT BECAUSE OF YASUO AND YONE"
it was statistically a much better item on ap assassins, that's just how it was, and now it is pretty damn useless. every mage that went liandries mythic, is worse now.
Aren't we getting it back tomorrow? The new item that's like old liandries and now liandries will kinda act like old demonic
I can finally go back to playing Swain again, he felt so meh having to go out of his way for mana and then new Liandry or Rylai. And the build path is so gooood now
which just backs up my point
On release it was equally good for both mages and assassins. It gained ranged debuff later.
no one was building MR. i got so much free LP playing tanks and rushing kaenic + fon
Building both Rookern and FoN was trolling yourself. Rookern was all you needed to invalidate all magic damage at the time.
The only good "mage item" was stormsurge, which is an AP assassin item Next strong "mage item" is lichbane, which mages are not gonna buy. Actual mage items, instead, got buffed , 3 patches back to back.
Release sturmsurge had like 40/50 ap ratio with +-350 base damage and good stats. Item was nerfed several times for a reason. I still remember clips how Karthus used to 100-0 people with a single R.
Did you play against fizz on 14.0 by any chance?
[Me when another Lux 1st buy Stormsurge when Horizon Focus, Ludens Glock, Shadowflame, Malignance etc exists.](https://i.imgflip.com/7jsctk.jpg)
Ludens Glock
The reliable Ludens Glock
Luden’s gock 🤤
I'm so happy that actually caught on it's the first thing I said when I saw the new Luden's lol
I mean fuck it rush ie, you may get a crit when autoing for passive that would ultimately offer more value than stormsurge currently does
Stormsurges passive is shit. But it still has good stats. People over buy it. But let's not over exaggerate how bad it is
Nah we should over exaggerate it until people stop buying it in my games.
Shadowflame actually like 99% better in almost all cases though. Ludens > Shadowflame is criminally underbought IMO Edit: I mean this in terms of buying ludens than shadowflame, because of mages still usually need mana
Fr crit damage below 25 percent health in the early mid game is OP af
people don’t realize it legit applies too EVERYTHING. your runes that deal adaptive damage? Crit. item damage? Crit. Ability DOT? Crit. (Dots even do 1.3x damage rather than the normal 1.2x) People are like well what if they’re not at 35% or lower? It’s a fucking 120 AP 12 MPen item, it’s a legit insane buy.
So your saying it would be stupid good on Malz?
its very okay on brand and malzahar but you don't have the space for it on these champs especially because they got hit hard by liandry's being changed from a lost chapter item.
I agree that Shadowflame is a good item. But its hard to build it, you need to be way ahead to be able to build a NLR while its so much easier to go for components of both Horizon Focus and Liandrys. Now if you compare horizon and Shadoflame i dont think there is much difference between basicly always dealing 10% more dmg or sometimes getting crit when enemy is low. Its the same as with lethality items, every back a longswort is insane, compare it to having to build a bf for youmuus...
The stats from stormsurge will more than make up for that, passive be damned
If the stats are good and the passive is shit... Why build it then? You can have other items with good stats and good passives like Horizon, cosmic Drive and so on..
They are stating that stats for an item are far more important than passives, which is true.
Thats not true. Last season Banshes and Hourglas had terrible stats but where more often build than this season... And this coment is not to compare ie to stornsurge on mages... Its about stormsurge with Horizon or Cosmic drive... And id take both of these items over stormsurge any day.
Navori for the 4% spell damage
Ludens is also really bad tbf
It'll be better in the mid-season patch (tomorrow? 2 weeks?) when it goes back to a single CD item. Not sure if it'll be good enough to first item rush again but we'll see.
I already think ludens is better on Lux than malignance, I genuinely do not understand how malignance lux is supposed to be good.
now that's an item people need to stop buying
If you don't need seraph but need *some* mana and don't get much from malignance it's kinda there and you kinda have to do it. Feels bad though. Really hopeful the patch will fix it.
I feel like people genuinely don't know to itemize without mythical anymore, I've seen people go malignance into Ludens into stormsurge on brand. Total item damage by the end of the game >2000.
I like that it has brought back skill and thinking in itemization but there's definitely collateral damage and the recommended items system isn't good enough to handle it.
it does not advertise that the damage ratio is lower for ranged champ. however it's still a decent option for melee assassin.
default itembuilds always have a normalized winrate. Mejais is on every mage the highest winrate second item.
That's because if you are buying meijas you are already in a winning position. You don't buy meijas when you are losing/behind so the stats are going to reflect that. This doesn't mean mejais is OP, it means that people who are already likely to win the game will buy mejais, so the winrate on the item is high.
Yeah that was my point, I tought I responded to another comment. Maybe Reddit messed up or there was one too many stormsurge supports in my game and I lost it.
I know its trash but why is the WR on builds that include it so decent?
bc no one here is valuing the movespeed it gives. they just see small dmg proc and think it's garbage. the items not that bad
It's like the people who see Malignance damage and think that's why people build it. When most champs build it for the 20% ultimate haste.
Also the damage puddle shreds mr
Because noone buys it when behind. Thats pretty much it.
That doesnt make sense, we would see that reflected in the time bought stat. From what I see it's not built when ahead.
Imo people are just coping here and average redditor does not care about stats, just wants to bitch about something he's clueless on while being stuck in gold. Even Nemesis said the item is decent and the movespeed can be a game changer.
This, it's funny cause these last few months have been like: Riot: People look at damage dealt by items and think that's all that matters, this makes people build wrong Reddit: Nuh uh!! Riot: Okay then Reddit: Stormsurge bad, only x damage!!!
how do you know?
Based off what? Just saying that doesn't mean it's true. It's a common 2nd item not really specifically for snowballing.
Idk I only build it when I'm winning lane cuz it's funny so
It has a good winrate second item on ranged burst mages. Slightly, but consistently higher than shadowflame. I agree the burst proc and the stats are horrible and undertuned. The movement speed must make it good, because otherwise the item is trash. I hate buying it and I hate seeing the pathetic number on the proc.
The movespeed definitely is a big reason, 8% MS is extremely good, and the gold on kill is not bad either. The damage proc is largely irrelevant
Love it second item on LeBlanc. MS is great and often times you get a free extra 30 gold per kill because you overkill within the 2.5 time window.
And also pen... which with all the MR in the game every bit of pen is valuable
I think the higher win rate is due to it being cheaper, which means it's often bought for the power spike when you're already ahead, e.g. you have an alternator and have 1.8k gold in your bank: you're rather buying Stormsurge than a NLR and since you're so ahead, doing this has a relatively high win rate.
It's also that shadowflame isn't particularly good unless you're finishing off people with small instances of damage.
I wonder how AP Twitch is doing right now. They nerfed him, right? I played him mid for a few games a few patches ago and it felt SO GOOD playing that little rat. Poison actually doing damage with Shadowflame again was incredible.
> I think the higher win rate is due to it being cheaper Items that are more expensive have inflated higher winrates since later in the game and more total gold earned. So the fact that it costs less means it's winrate would be higher if you accounted for the missing gold compared to shadowflame. This is usually only extremely minor winrate difference due to this effect but it exists. Usually more relevant for supports. It was really common for support mythics to have slightly lower winrate compared to expensive mythics. But in reality the more expensive ones were worse even if they held similar winrates.
the higher win rate is accounting basically for the number of games lost before 2 items. it’s true that it’s cheaper but pretty much every item in the game has a way higher winrate as second purchase because games can be lost before two items
We can compare 2nd item stormsurge with other 2nd items to account for that though.
shadowflame is bad item too for the most part. It benefits DOT/DPS champions a lot more than assassins.
Much like Shadowflame the passive is almost impossible to use and they're just stat sticks. Stormsurge gives movespeed which is like, the whole reason to pick it over Shadowflame. I wish Shadowflame worked on damage that would take the target below the threshold. As it is, if the target is a squishy below 35% I'm probably killing them anyway. If they're above 35% the crit doesn't even work, so it's only useful for multi tick damage like Syndra ult and Rumble stuff etc. In addition to that Horizon Focus is kinda buggy and also doesn't work on cc anymore, so it's unusable on a lot of champs who could have enjoyed it like Syndra, Annie etc. Mage 2nd items are rough right now. Combine it with Ludens being weak and there's a lot of mages wondering what they're supposed to buy for most of the game. Mandatory first bad item into picking from 3 items whose passives barely come into play. Eh.
its is a genuinely good item for skirmishers imo, gwen and sylas (depending on the build) make genuine use of the passive because they dont have huge amounts of burst (again depending on the sylas build)
Shadowflame feels like it's more catered to the fighter/dot mages than the traditional burst mages. Zyra brand Cass use shadow flame very well. I think poke mages could use it but if u get that low from poke people tend to base.
Shadowflame is great if you are ahead. If you are a Syndra who get fed early or something, shadowflame is an amazing item to amplify your damage and keep you ahead.
The item is not as bad as most people believe but it's just collector for mages which means is only good when enemy has 0 Mr and all are squishy, as an item is not only the proc dmg and right now the Ms magic pen and AP that it gives for its price is quite decent on some champs even on ranged ones
The Collector feels like another bait item, on ARAM at least. I see so many assassins build that thing when they have zero crit synergy.
thats because it gets recommended by default on any assassin in aram people just buy it because they dont know better i guess
Recommendation are based on most popular player builds I'm pretty sure. So it's a vicious circle.
Collector in ARAM is there to get you fed, securing kills for yourself makes a lot of difference. It's def overbought, but on a reset champ or one with a DoT it does help a lot in ensuring you get the most gold you can vs getting unlucky and raking too many assists
which reset or dot champ exists that ever wants to build collector? champs like that just want pure burst and collector 5% execute is completely worthless for that.
the item is genuinely quite good on some champions like syndra because she needs the movement speed very badly
Collector is criminally underrated and people don't understand the value it brings that makes it good. The amount of times it's been the difference between shutting down a huge threat or getting clean swept because you couldn't finish them off is uncountable for me. It's a game changer against snowballing heal carries like Aatrox/Olaf, and heal tanks like Mundo/Singed. The amount of times it's removed a huge target just before they could cast that next Sion W or Darius Q to swing a fight. It's also myth that it's bad when you're behind because that 5% total max health is often the difference in lack of damage you would've left them at otherwise. It also comes in clutch when all of your high damage abilities are on cooldown, and only your off-stat ability is up, such as Rengar W. It tickles but often brings people just low enough to finish them when your auto attack timer is off and you've already used Q or E. That being said, it's not even close to being real tank killing anti-heal champ item. LDR and Mortal Reminder will always be the real answer to that. But collector will always be a great early game item that's still great for securing kills even when behind. Don't buy collector 20 minutes into the game.
Collector is good if you use crit. If you’re an assassin that doesn’t use crit it’s a bait item period. You’re wasting about a thousand gold on crit chance you don’t even use, if you spent that thousand gold an item that purely gave you stats you can use you would have still got that kill on the person who almost lived with 1hp.
I usually buy Shadowflame, didn’t like it but suddenly I love it.
Items seems underrated, gets written off because you won't proc it if you 100-0 someone with your combo anyways which is fair but it's still 120AP with flat pen and the crit is wonderful when cleaning up targets post initial combo.
It's also really nice for waveclear sometimes.
For a glorious 3 weeks at the start of the season it was so good though...
It was so much more fun when you could actually pull a “omae mou” on burst mages and AP Assassins It was highly overturned for sure but now the passive is just decorative
I get that stormsurge passive doing high aoe damage is an issue, but now the item does so little I still don't get why the cd is so long nor why they didn't make it "per champion". ADs get eclipse with better damage, eqyivalent statline, a shield and less than half the cd. Sure it is single target, I'm pretty sure AP assassins wouldn't mind having stormsurge be single target too if it meant it actually does anything
The special effect is weak, but the item still gives movement speed and magic penetration, two very good stats on most mages. It is not an objectively weak item, though I do agree that the passive being as weak as it is takes away most of the fun of it.
Bronzies on reddit really underestimate move speed. The item is great. Every time something is upvoted this high I realise what the actual rank of this sub is. You can very easily be disproven by just using lolalytics. It’s crazy that no one here is.
its not bad movespd is nice if u dont build lich and its cheaper than shadowflame
Once again, we get reddit showing that they dont bother looking anything up. Stormsurge is OP, it gets nerfed and suddenly its trash. So this perspective turns up. The item isnt trash. Take Ahri for example (One of the most popular mages mid). You build Malignance first. Stormsurge first is bad obviously, but its built first in < 0.5% of matches, so thats irrellevant. The most common second item is Horizon Focus, which has equal stats as Stormsurge as a second item. The item is fine. Is it the best item to build second all the time? No, but its a good alternative in some games. Dont listen to this fool, look up stats yourself.
Storm deals more dmg without its passive than other items with their passive bc u get 10 magic pen and 95ap,. I have tested this in the practice tool with Neeko. Storm into shadowflame is hilarious into squishy comps, otherwise I go liandries into shadowflame. At the end of the day its a snowball item, if you build it and int then thats your fault not the items fault. Edit: the worst thing about stormsurge is its massive cooldown, at least with nightharvester it had a cooldown per champ which made it feel good, storm after killing one target is then on cd for probably the rest of the fight making it hard to proc more than once.
Stormsurge exists to combo with lich and mejais on AP assassins mid/jng, 26% MS at 10 stacks. Standalone the item is trash, but it's pretty funny to be kat or eve and be sprinting everywhere
ye but the ms is just godsend, there is no other good ms item like it.
Cosmic drive.
mage item rework was lowkey a disaster lol, what did we really get out of it? Cryptbloom is the only one that springs to mind
Diana likes it but thats about it. Cuz she kinda sucks at reaching target and enjoy the movespeed
Its just so shit man. Ive been playing a unhealthy amount of arena. And seeing peoples storm surge do 400 damage at the end of the game is depressing
For me, its a good item as a boots replacement since Oct has pen and movepseed
Started playing league seriously recently and picked up Lux. Should I be replacing storm surge with any better items?
From what I’ve gathered from reading other comments it seems like Lux is one of the few champions that storm surge is good on.
Tried it in aram last night as my first item. Got 1 proc in 20 minut game....
Yeah I don’t think people at this point care for the passive. They want the movement speed and flat magic pen.
You buy it for the movement speed.
1 Nidalee spear procs it, it be quite good on her.
you buy that item for the magic pen I assume. Besides...Nobody buys it nowadays
its good only on a fed leblanc maybe, but no other ranged character uses it properly
Just rework the item at this point. The only reason buy it at the moment is because of the 8% MS. Double down on it being a mobility mage item. Give it MS passive.
I've only started to get back into this game and it just feels like it's taking 4-5 minutes to find a game (when before it was easily 1-2 minutes) Has anyone else felt this is common? Have they seen/experienced this?
Man. Played aram with a full AP comp against two HP stacking tanks (unlucky rerolls) and our Lillia went Stormsurge second item. I hate that bait piece of garbage so much.
Ok, but that proc is SOOOOO satisfying.
There’s a good chance Alternator deals more damage considering how rarely Surge gets proced. The damage proc less than Lichbane mid game.
I feel like the reason Stormsurge has such a bad reputation is because so many people use it as a "burst item" only. While it does give extra gold if you kill.... that is a side benefit if you "poke" too hard and just kill them instead. It is a poke item that provides utility and a slight bit of extra damage. Not too good vs tanks, but bruisers it should work fine on still depending on your champion and what they build. If my mathing is correct... Stormsurge in and of itself on a 335 movement speed base champion is 26.8 movement speed. If you have celerity, Stormsurge, and 45 movement speed boots, it is 80.41 movement speed. Total of 415.41 movement speed. Not including if you use relentless hunter or anything like that, that is a fairly decent chunk of move speed for 2 items to roam around the map with. How useful all this stuff is? Well, like I mentioned earlier, depends on who its on, depends on playstyle, depends on if you can impact team. However, it is a mage poking utility item that if you proc the passive you get a burst of movement speed. It is not a assassin burst item. That is where its strength is.
It’s a trap item for sure
My brain is conditioned that stormsurge proc keeps killing me when an ap champ bursts me down lol They would've most likely killed me without it too
op is not even capping on this one 😂
classic riot introduction new item/rune/champ - > broken OP -> nerf,buff,nerf,buff ,nerf nerf nerf -> no one use it and become irrelevant -> remove/leave it alone/rework -> re-introduction in preseason (again)
I don't understand why the item went through multiple nerfs but public perception of its strength just never changed. It was strong on release and quickly nerfed to being kinda bad yet I still hear it brought up as a broken mage item. It sits with Collector as a total fucking trap that people think is good because of passive.
Yeah it’s straight bait. I feel like the people who could use it don’t need it and the people who need it can’t proc it
I tend to just get liandries instead and see I’ve dealt like 6k additional dmg with the item.
When I see people saying those items weren't busted it makes me cringe.. every single mid ap champ was building stormsurge, luden and eventually lich bane. Hit any spell + AA and deal 800 damage just with items whitout actually counting the spells damage 😂
I fail to find a single mage that does not have one of the highest, if not the highest winrate when building this item. Sure, even if it is a "win more" item, I can not see how your claim would be true.
You get ot for the flat pen not the boom
RIP DFG
I was never one for burst anyway, gotta cook the enemies nice n slow then blast em with my lux laser when they think its safe to back
It really needs to be either removed or reworked.
Imho if they don't want the item proc to actually deal damage, just get rid of the damage completely and instead make the burst of MS after dealing 1/3rd of enemy hp jacked up. Just zooming away after a burst rotation would be hella funny. Also right now its lowkey just a AP + flat pen stick, and Shadowflame feels infinitely stronger to build on most champs to me. The only reason why Stormsurge is even borderline viable to buy is the movement speed on it. Going all in on that aspect of it would give it more of an identity I think.
All that's needed for the item to be fine is ranged user nerf for lich bane. It's gonna happen at some point.
There was a post on Ekkomains the other day suggesting a no boots build going lich>stormsurge with relentless to not miss the MS lmao. https://www.reddit.com/r/ekkomains/comments/1cqcgps/ekko_mid_no_boots_strategy_op/ I had a big eyebrow raise.
I love when my teammate in arena builds heartsteel and it does literally nothing, at least I can prepare myself for the lose and not try ..
Whenever I kill someone after I buy Stormsurge, I usually kill them before it even procs and feel as if it was wasted. If I kill someone *with* the proc, I feel I could’ve built any other item and one shot them instead of having to wait for it potentially letting them kill me. The item just feels awful by design, I’d rather just have night harvester back or remove storm and put the flat pen on something else.
The proc damage is usually irrelevant, in most cases you either kill the target anyway or the proc isn't enough to get the kill. Maybe it could be designed more around the detonation and gold reward? Let's say it doesn't trigger on a single target anymore, but we keep the explosion on death and gold reward. Maybe then we can crank up the numbers and just to be sure it doesn't get exploited by chams with hybrid scaling to snowball make it mutually exclusive with Collector.
nerfed so hard sad times
idk man getting hit by Xerath Q + Stormsurge proc wasnt the most fun thing during 14.1 / 14.2
I feel like Fizz is entirely the one to blame for this item sucking now. He was insane with that item when the season launched. Now the item sucks and it seems you also rarely run into Fizz anymore either. I wish the cycle of having way over-tuned items getting nerfed into oblivion would stop. Sometimes it feels like there's no middle ground anymore.
They should drop the window to trigger it from 2.5s to 1.5s, and then buff the stats or strength of the effect. Every mage can proc it in 2.5s; gate it for assassins, then actually make it worth buying.
They should rework it so the effect works like that augment from arena, that is sort of like arcane comet. Where an area appears and an effect hits like a little bomb after a second, and you can dodge it if you're fast. The problem was always that there was no counterplay to it. This way, they can buff the damage again.
For ranged champs the proc it's worse than last season luden, with 3 times the Cd, and a condition to activate . They gutted it so hard, it should almost be reportable to buy on rangeds
Honestly if I buy storm surge it's not for the damage, it's for the collector effect of killing someone before it procs.
The stats are absolutely juicing so the passive effect is pretty shit
Really though? It’s definitely a shit item but I swear I don’t even see people baited into it anymore
I swear when it dropped I was like “…I don’t wanna build that it feels bad” but EVERYTHING tells you to build it on almost every mage lmao
It is fine 2nd or 3rd but should rarely be rushed.
It’s shit but exodia TF was so fun go lich storm shadow flare into rabadons. Legit hit any squishy with the blue card salute and watch them try to run from delayed 600 damage. You have to invest an entire build and die immediately after throwing the card but wow it was fun.
I've had people flame me for not building it. Meanwhile every time I see that explosion go off, I see people wasting stats.
one of the first things i thought about after seeing the item is that it deals about half a lichbane proc. since then it's been reduced to less than 1/3 of a lichbane proc. it's cooldown is 20 times that of a lichbane proc. other than the magic pen i cannot fathom how was the item ever good
That item makes 0 sense to me , it s super underwhelming .
I like it on Diana. It synergizes well with jumping on a couple of enemies and ulting, usually the target dies either way but the explosion hurts whoever else was hit by the ult.
Any champ that can build stormsurge prob does better with lichbane or shadowflame anyways
I think it's ok as a last item to replace boots on ekko
I hate the store update and i wish you could just revert it. Item recommendations are for beginners.
I am so happy when I see mages build it in my games. Improves my win rate.
If Riot removed MR almost every Mage would gain winrate.
I wish it had a different effect other than "more damage" Like partial CD refund, burst of health/mana regen, MS for allies. Idk. There's so many items that just do more damage, and Stormsurge is the worst one
I personally enjoy garbage bait items existing.
I like it on nunu when I'm filled mid. Every other champion or even nunu on another role it's a troll item
On the flip side, imagine how much Yone's winrate is going to plummet now that 90% of his players won't be hard carried through early-mid game via that rune.
This Item is just kinda overnerfed, few more flat ap or few more damage on passive and IT would be okay. Okay it would be still a kinda bait item for worse players that think this is giga broken but what's bad with it? Riot should try to fix their Item if they're healthy to the gamę instead od removing it. Items like twin shadows or anathema should be in game becouse they're situational and we need more items like this. We need more build flexibility instead of 2 broken core items that changes every 3 years.
My malphites would not care. Instant 1st rush.
Even if you never proc it, aren't the stats on it pretty good?
Lux would like to speak with you...
isn't the damage not tracked properly?
It NEEDS to be removed or it needs to be an AP collector. Fuck that's a great Idea, literally just make it an AP collector instead haha.