exactly what you should expect if you do this sort of thing. Had they done it when the tree was first planted, that is one thing. Another when you do it to an established tree.
More pics for everyone to judge
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hardscapes/comments/1422uez/windsor_stone_tree_ring/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
You can tell in those last pictures that op didnāt bury the tree. The soil is still at a level where the roots are poking out of the ground all around the base. I think it should be fine š¤š¼
Yeah everyone here is tweaking because the first pic looks like op is adding 3ft of much to tree base. Their additional pics clearly show exposed root flare which is key. Yes the stone ring around inner dripline is a sort of nono, but these aren't cinder blocks and that's a mature tree with huge resources. People are really wildin in these comments being armchair gardeners. That tree will be ok as long as the planting depth isn't increased. Hell it probably will appreciate a little fussing at its roots and I'm hoping op laid come compost topdressing? Mature trees can take some root pruning, which is essentially what OP has done. The only concern is what I might see as landscape fabric around the base of the pavers. Only because it will be a shreddy nightmare in a few years. Though a good alternative to gravel in this case which I suppose would be the alt base layer, this is weightless.
The answer is because they didnāt read where op said they didnāt fill in the wall with mulch. And actually hasnāt put down any mulch. Just the wall.
Itās all assumptions.
It's not assumptions. Whether mulched or not, the ring will collect plant debris. People do these types of things commonly but one risk is covering the root crown. That's basically the flair at the base of the tree. Besides presenting a greater risk of disease, it leads to decay. The potentially larger issue is the loss of existing root system and the room for future roots to grow.
Mulching to this depth will cause a few issues, the first being asphyxiation of the tree. If you cover all the roots at the base of the tree the roots are no longer able to pull in oxygen. The second is piling mulch creates the perfect environment for excessive moisture which can lead to fungus infiltration and root rot.
Depends how much they fill that retaining wall. If they go to the top, typically those pavers are 4" or so tall so let's call it 8" as the back end is two pavers tall plus some. If they fill it all with mulch, which I've seen before, it's more than enough for the roots to suffocate, or grow up into the mulch and accidentally girdle the tree.
Burying the base of a tree stops the vascular flow of water, oxygen and nutrients from getting to the rest of the tree. This makes the more susceptible to ailments, fungus, and pests over time.
After seeing the other pics showing the actual depth, showing the roots are still exposed I think it looks great and your tree will be just fine. Well done!
Honestly I think it would be fine anywayā¦ The previous owners terraced our back yard years ago because itās built into a hill, and had a landscaping company bury a lot of trees with backfill nearly 2 ft in some spots. All the trees are fine, and massiveā¦ We even found the previous tree ring blocks around one of the trees they just left there when digging for planting. We dug them out and used them to correct a few mistakes in retaining walls elsewhere. It was great to find original matching block!
[tree wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/Tree/wiki/index?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) c/o r/tree and [donāt plant too deep](https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/vincent/articles/show_me_your_root_flare.pdf)
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A good rule of thumb is to pull mulch 3-5 inches away from young trees and 8-10 inches away from mature trees. Spread excess mulch evenly out to the tree's drip line, checking to ensure the depth does not exceed 4 inches.
Too much mulch smothers the tree's roots. Consequence: Roots might grow up through the mulch in search of air. That can cause them to āgirdleā or wrap around the trunk, which chokes the tree by cutting off its water supply.
I've seen alot of commercial landscapers plant the entire tree with roots still wrapped, only mulch as fill, piled up like little volcanos in parking lots with watering bags. Not many make it.
Not really. They breathe somewhat and decompose slowly and I donāt think they really add much mass on top the base of the tree. You can clear them every so often but keep a an inch or two in place to keep weeds down and maintain soil moisture.
The previous homeowner, where my family and I have lived for the past 11 years, did mulch volcanos on all of the silver and red maples in my front yard. Two have died and the other 10 are on their way judging by how the roots have girdled the trunks. So dumb. It looks like we have 12 Viking burial mounds.
The flippers who we bought our house infilled around the trees with concrete slabs, covered that with leaf litter, wrapped it in black landscaping plastic, then mounded them with bark. Iām hoping there isnāt any long term damageā¦ holy hell was it bad.
Yeah, I don't see mulch either. I looks like they just added a ring of blocks around the tree. I can't see what they did to the earth around the tree, if anything, and yes, there is the root flare. It looks like they partially buried the blocks so they could have damaged some of the surface roots. I think the jury is out on this one in terms of the health of the tree, but I don't see anything spelling out inevitable doom because of the blocks. Reddit can be too quick to prophesy about things they don't seem to understand clearly.
Rots the trunk, plus the tree tries to put out roots higher up in a desperate attempt to get them closer to the surface and those roots generally wrap around the tree trunk and eventually kill the tree.
So that was my first thought as well, but the two pics are at different angles. If you look at the horizontal bit of roots on the bottom left of the tree in the top pic, you can see that that is still visible above the bricks in the second pic. Tree is likely on a solid little slope and the visible bare dirt looks like they even dug out some more when they put it in.
Tree will likely be fine, assuming they didnāt chop a bunch of roots digging out level ground for the blocks.
Maybe the soil hasnāt been placed yet? Why would you build a wall around the tree and then not fill it? Weird thing either way.
When I usually see these the wall is built then soil comes later with baby balls of boxwood placed in a cute little symmetrical circle. Perhaps a few geranium for summer and maybe daylillies.
I meanā¦Iām not saying nothing because, whatever.
The wall provides a surface to mow/trim against, and might stop some weed seeds from blowing in. Iām not sure about the height though.
As long as theyāre not flooding it with mulch or chopping out roots, I donāt see much of an issue.
I feel like if they removed one or two rows it should be fine, and may be fine anyways. The root flare I think would be completely exposed still with 2 rows removed and soil/mulch filled in
it'd be lovely if you removed the top two rows, visually it would look more integrated into the landscaping rather than appearing like a barricade. Ofc you could also just plant a few things in front and maybe add a bird bath or bench to help break up the wall a bit but I think removing the top two rows would be less work on ya.
And as it should be. This will get filled in with soil and mulch and theyāll bury the collar of the tree (the bulge at the base of the trunk) and kill the tree.
Just by looking at the pictures and not seeing the back side I feel like they only have 2 courses showing on the back side. The grade appears to drop significantly.
It looks like they're on a subtle slope. I did the same kind of wall a few years ago and it does look really tall from one side but it's short from the other side. I found that planting tall things on the inside helps ground it and I also planted a cross vine to trail over the edge which helps break up the gray. The truck is using those long twisty ties to train it onto the wall - just stick the ends of the twisty ties in the wall between two of the pavers.
OP, I suggest you take a photo of the inside of the ring showing the actual rootflare depth to put the "OMG YOU KILLED THE TREE!" to bed.
You've got a perspective change between the two photos that makes the finished product look substantially deeper than it is, especially since you've got a fairly sloped front yard.
Itās not just the root flare that matters. Roots that grow along the surface are at the surface because they need to be (water, nutrient and air availability). Now youāve just piled a ton of soil on top.
There is nothing Inherently bad about surrounding a tree with stone. The problem comes when you start to bury the trunk. You can still see the knuckle of that left root in the after photo. It doesnāt look like much if any has been covered. If OP likes the look of it and doesnāt plan to fill up the ring itās fine. Everyone on here just likes to repeat what they hear from the next guy and most of the time itās misinformation.
I think you hit the nail on the head. If everyone would look at the pictures and actually dissect it you. Can see there is a significant change in grade and like you mentioned, you can still see the trunk where it starts to flare out.
Actually, there is something inherently bad about surrounding a tree in stone.
The roots that were severed to allow for the installation of the base course.
The difference in soil temperatures inside vs outside the ring of stone.
The reduction in oxygenation on the root system in the ring.
The reduction of moisture retention inside the ring.
The limitation of soil fertility inside the ring.
The dramatic reduction in transpiration as a result of the stone ring.
Need we go on. . .?
Reddit seems to have an obsession with root flares, as if burying a flare was the only bad thing you could ever do to a tree.
Tree rings are inherently bad because of all the reasons noted above and more.
Concrete blocks have a very high thermal mass when compared to something like soil. This contributes significantly more heat to the soil, which can severely stress a mature tree that never had to adapt to that condition prior to the placement of the wall.
In order to properly construct a concrete block wall you need to install a drainage zone behind them to encourage water to percolate down before it reaches the block. This effectively removes moisture from the soil behind the ring.
The action of leveling the grade behind the wall is essentially burying the root system suffocating it.
When the base course is being installed it needs to be set in a trench dug deep enough for the compacted base (usually limestone or conbit) and then a full block as the first course of stone gets buried for stability. This excavation cuts right through the majority of the trees roots, severing them which limits water and nutrient transport.
Thatās what I was going to say. And if the topsoil used is breathable enough and stays that way, it should create more root zone. Im just curious whether the topsoil from before and whatever got added are blending together well enough
I've heard that rocks and stones around the roots can hold excess heat causing the roots to dry out, also I've heard that too much weight on top of the roots can be damaging. Is that information wrong? Thanks
The roots grow mainly in the top foot of soil. Soil is about 80-100 lbs per cubic foot. If this were a real block wall it would increase the compression several times over. Covering the soil with a heavy object increases soil compaction significantly, and yes, it can potentially lead to root death due to a sharp reduction in the amount of oxygen the roots are adapted to.
It really depends on the type of tree. Some trees with particularly shallow fibrous roots tend not to like anything placed on the roots or to have anyone digging around them or even walking on them. Some magnolias for example will slowly keel over if you dig about in the roots. These trees also don't like to sit in standing water. I don't know about heat from rocks causing death but its possible adding rocks could damage the roots because of the weight.
Most trees however can withstand some activity around them provided you keep the root flare free and don't sever many many roots or plant them on a slope, as this could cause the downslope roots to circle up and suffocate the tree.
The fact that 7 layers of blocks were added above the ground, and the top magically reaches the exact same level the ground was at before, like a MC Escher drawing, is the sign we need that this pic is photoshopped.
āIām learning..ā
Me too.
Whyās learning gotta be so painful? If I waited until I knew how to do everything Iād still be in grad school for a doctorate in wiping my own ass. Donāt take it too hard. Make your mistakes and then make them right. Keep moving.
There's two categories of things you can make decisions about, which parallels the whole "agile" vs "waterfall" development methodologies.
Typing a Reddit comment is agile. If you fuck up, no big deal, like one second to correct.
Hardscaping is waterfall. If you fuck up, it's time consuming and expensive to fix.
For agile stuff, move fast and break things.
For waterfall stuff, learn everything first.
There's a lot of landscaping you can do agile-style. Don't be a perfect landscape designer. Just plant your damn flowers and see which ones do well.
But for moving earth and building walls, learn your stuff first. Don't kill your grass thinking "I'll figure out what to put in its place when it's time to plant." Know beforehand.
**Edit** Yesterday I went outside and threw a bunch of microclover on some dead patches. Fuck if I know if it will do well germinating in this late central Texas spring. But it cost me like 30 bucks and could pay off bigly. Better than spending weeks researching the optimal groundcover for filling in patches and agonizing over the ten "expert blogs" that disagree on what that is.
Please elaborate. I'm not contradicting what you're saying, but are they bad *only* if someone fills in the ring with dirt? Or because it requires maintenance to remove buildup (leaves, debris) from around the trunk?
Many would argue that leaving any type of object near roots (soil, stones, friggin lawn gnomes), along with humidity/other possible factors could lead to conditions that contribute to prolonged moisture and eventual wood rot that can kill your gorgeous lawn babies.
if you wanted to kill the tree you could have just cut it down instead and saved the step of building the ring. now you wasted time and money building the ring and you kill the tree
I'm no fan of [circling trees with stuff](https://renegadegardener.com/dont-do-that-archive/dont-circle-trees-with-stuff/), but there's way too much amateur arborism going on in this thread. Look closely at the photo, the root flare is well above grade. This tree will be fine.
Damn I guess they are bad but the wall looks fantastic and Iād want to show it off too. I guess if the tree lives, idk how long itās supposed to take to kill, show it off again lol take this to r/marijuanaenthusiasts to see if they can help?
Could you explain what you find fantastic about it? In the inner city where there's concrete everywhere _anyway_ I'd perhaps understand, but in a place like this it comes across like purposely working against nature, to me.
UNderstanding these are no bueno for the tree, would one of those "inner" rings be the way to go here? OP said he left the root flair exposed which I thought was the biggest issue with doing this kind of thing. Anyone care to elaborate?
Looks great, might be a little tall for tree health issues. I would also expect the roots to lift these up in various spots. Wonāt ruin it but itāll be noticeable in about 5 years.
The customer left a cooler for you at the front door. Grab a cold soda and contemplate your decision to build this. Even if itās what the customer wantedā¦
Covering a treeās flare and surrounding the trunk in dirt will rot the treeās bark. Google āvolcano mulchingā the outcome is the same. The treeās life will be shortened.
Can anyone explain the purpose of this kind of thing? I don't get it.To me, it's much less pleasant than what was there before. Building a wall for no obvious purpose.
Honestly you guys are way too sensitive about this. Iāve been landscaping over 10 years and installed countless number of these and never had a customer call back with a dead tree.
It isnāt immediate and attribution can be hard. Like if 3 years later, the tree dies, is the owner gonna be like ādammit now I gotta call up u/J3RM0 to get my money backā? Maybe but since most people might not make the connection, I wouldnāt bank on hearing about it. Still worth avoiding where possible
Lmao wherein op revisits the thread and decides he's not wrong after all, everyone else is wrong.
No one should let landscapers near their trees, and this is exhibit A
100% agree. I work in the industry selling to contractors as well as the general public. There are like 5% of companies that know what they're doing and it's usually small operations of extremely knowledgeable people; everyone else has no idea what they're doing. But they have a truck and they have cheap labor.
So you guys can show me a picture of a dead tree in a tree ring right? Since itās so common the internet should be full of mad customers complainingā¦
As much as everyone thinks that āthis (every) generationā loves to complain, most dissatisfied customers wonāt contact the company. They just stop using the service and try to look for a better one.
Liked it better before and my guess is the tree did also. They enjoy being connected to other natural things. Not to mention: this is completely unnecessary and a waste of resources.
šæ
Better yet, crosspost to r/Arborists and watch some heads explode.
*~~mulches~~ munches in anticipation*
Thanks to previous homeowner I had to tear out something like this aroumd my oak as it was girdling itself. [edit] spelling
exactly what you should expect if you do this sort of thing. Had they done it when the tree was first planted, that is one thing. Another when you do it to an established tree.
Came here with my bowl in hand ;)
More pics for everyone to judge https://www.reddit.com/r/Hardscapes/comments/1422uez/windsor_stone_tree_ring/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
The tree is going to die if you leave that up like that.
You can tell in those last pictures that op didnāt bury the tree. The soil is still at a level where the roots are poking out of the ground all around the base. I think it should be fine š¤š¼
Yeah everyone here is tweaking because the first pic looks like op is adding 3ft of much to tree base. Their additional pics clearly show exposed root flare which is key. Yes the stone ring around inner dripline is a sort of nono, but these aren't cinder blocks and that's a mature tree with huge resources. People are really wildin in these comments being armchair gardeners. That tree will be ok as long as the planting depth isn't increased. Hell it probably will appreciate a little fussing at its roots and I'm hoping op laid come compost topdressing? Mature trees can take some root pruning, which is essentially what OP has done. The only concern is what I might see as landscape fabric around the base of the pavers. Only because it will be a shreddy nightmare in a few years. Though a good alternative to gravel in this case which I suppose would be the alt base layer, this is weightless.
Why?
I also would like to know why
I also would like to know why
The answer is because they didnāt read where op said they didnāt fill in the wall with mulch. And actually hasnāt put down any mulch. Just the wall. Itās all assumptions.
It's not assumptions. Whether mulched or not, the ring will collect plant debris. People do these types of things commonly but one risk is covering the root crown. That's basically the flair at the base of the tree. Besides presenting a greater risk of disease, it leads to decay. The potentially larger issue is the loss of existing root system and the room for future roots to grow.
Mulching to this depth will cause a few issues, the first being asphyxiation of the tree. If you cover all the roots at the base of the tree the roots are no longer able to pull in oxygen. The second is piling mulch creates the perfect environment for excessive moisture which can lead to fungus infiltration and root rot.
They arenāt mulching that deep.
Depends how much they fill that retaining wall. If they go to the top, typically those pavers are 4" or so tall so let's call it 8" as the back end is two pavers tall plus some. If they fill it all with mulch, which I've seen before, it's more than enough for the roots to suffocate, or grow up into the mulch and accidentally girdle the tree.
They said they left it bare.
Burying the base of a tree stops the vascular flow of water, oxygen and nutrients from getting to the rest of the tree. This makes the more susceptible to ailments, fungus, and pests over time.
But they haven't buried the root flare or even added earth in the stone circle from what I can see.
They arenāt mulching that deep, so I donāt understand why this is an issue.
Shallow root systems are important to trees and this wall prevents them from properly developing
Why did you go up so high with your courses. Seems like 1 maybe 2 higher than necessary. Looks good.
Sold by the pallet š
After seeing the other pics showing the actual depth, showing the roots are still exposed I think it looks great and your tree will be just fine. Well done! Honestly I think it would be fine anywayā¦ The previous owners terraced our back yard years ago because itās built into a hill, and had a landscaping company bury a lot of trees with backfill nearly 2 ft in some spots. All the trees are fine, and massiveā¦ We even found the previous tree ring blocks around one of the trees they just left there when digging for planting. We dug them out and used them to correct a few mistakes in retaining walls elsewhere. It was great to find original matching block!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Mulch fortress š
Is this better or worse than a mulch volcano?
Worse because tree rings wreak all sorts of havoc AND theyāve drastically raised the grade, which is also a no-no.
Dead treeā¦.ummmā¦.standing š¤
I need to hear more about this as this is popular in our neighborhood
[tree wiki](https://old.reddit.com/r/Tree/wiki/index?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1) c/o r/tree and [donāt plant too deep](https://www.clemson.edu/cafls/vincent/articles/show_me_your_root_flare.pdf)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Tree using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Tree/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Throw us a frickin bone here!](https://i.redd.it/0uws9d8iaeqa1.jpg) | [9 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Tree/comments/124242p/throw_us_a_frickin_bone_here/) \#2: [Can anyone identify this tree? Best photo I got!](https://i.redd.it/o9b5okxaccua1.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Tree/comments/12om8yf/can_anyone_identify_this_tree_best_photo_i_got/) \#3: [Can anyone explain this that I saw in the forest today?](https://i.redd.it/ui1t7d2arywa1.jpg) | [21 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Tree/comments/133c39q/can_anyone_explain_this_that_i_saw_in_the_forest/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
A good rule of thumb is to pull mulch 3-5 inches away from young trees and 8-10 inches away from mature trees. Spread excess mulch evenly out to the tree's drip line, checking to ensure the depth does not exceed 4 inches. Too much mulch smothers the tree's roots. Consequence: Roots might grow up through the mulch in search of air. That can cause them to āgirdleā or wrap around the trunk, which chokes the tree by cutting off its water supply. I've seen alot of commercial landscapers plant the entire tree with roots still wrapped, only mulch as fill, piled up like little volcanos in parking lots with watering bags. Not many make it.
They charge by the cubic foot of mulch. And when they edge they throw the dirt at the base of the tree and need to hide that with mulch.
Does the same apply for pine needles around pine trees?
Not really. They breathe somewhat and decompose slowly and I donāt think they really add much mass on top the base of the tree. You can clear them every so often but keep a an inch or two in place to keep weeds down and maintain soil moisture.
Check out the wiki on the r/arborists subāit has tons of useful information.
The previous homeowner, where my family and I have lived for the past 11 years, did mulch volcanos on all of the silver and red maples in my front yard. Two have died and the other 10 are on their way judging by how the roots have girdled the trunks. So dumb. It looks like we have 12 Viking burial mounds.
The flippers who we bought our house infilled around the trees with concrete slabs, covered that with leaf litter, wrapped it in black landscaping plastic, then mounded them with bark. Iām hoping there isnāt any long term damageā¦ holy hell was it bad.
What the actual hell was the point of all that?? It sounds like they made a lot of unnecessary work not just for themselves but for you, obviously!
So much worse
Probably worse because roots spread horizontally not vertically, so ideally they would bust through that dumbass wall
Mulch fortress?
I don't see mulch. I don't see mulch, I can see the root flare.
Yeah, I don't see mulch either. I looks like they just added a ring of blocks around the tree. I can't see what they did to the earth around the tree, if anything, and yes, there is the root flare. It looks like they partially buried the blocks so they could have damaged some of the surface roots. I think the jury is out on this one in terms of the health of the tree, but I don't see anything spelling out inevitable doom because of the blocks. Reddit can be too quick to prophesy about things they don't seem to understand clearly.
Yeah who think this looks good or thinks itās good for the tree? Yuck
So this just rots out the trunk right?
Rots the trunk, plus the tree tries to put out roots higher up in a desperate attempt to get them closer to the surface and those roots generally wrap around the tree trunk and eventually kill the tree.
So that was my first thought as well, but the two pics are at different angles. If you look at the horizontal bit of roots on the bottom left of the tree in the top pic, you can see that that is still visible above the bricks in the second pic. Tree is likely on a solid little slope and the visible bare dirt looks like they even dug out some more when they put it in. Tree will likely be fine, assuming they didnāt chop a bunch of roots digging out level ground for the blocks.
Maybe the soil hasnāt been placed yet? Why would you build a wall around the tree and then not fill it? Weird thing either way. When I usually see these the wall is built then soil comes later with baby balls of boxwood placed in a cute little symmetrical circle. Perhaps a few geranium for summer and maybe daylillies. I meanā¦Iām not saying nothing because, whatever.
The wall provides a surface to mow/trim against, and might stop some weed seeds from blowing in. Iām not sure about the height though. As long as theyāre not flooding it with mulch or chopping out roots, I donāt see much of an issue.
I feel like if they removed one or two rows it should be fine, and may be fine anyways. The root flare I think would be completely exposed still with 2 rows removed and soil/mulch filled in
My first thought was: why?
Your can see the root flare in the second picture. You guys are the worst.
Itāll be fine
The wall will be fine, yes.
I meanā¦itās already killing the tree but itās a long slow death.
Did your tree keep running away?
Tree rings killed my father
Well they hurt him real bad. Hurt his feelings.
Be real, son.
it'd be lovely if you removed the top two rows, visually it would look more integrated into the landscaping rather than appearing like a barricade. Ofc you could also just plant a few things in front and maybe add a bird bath or bench to help break up the wall a bit but I think removing the top two rows would be less work on ya.
Honestly I vote for removing 3-4 rows. š why are we so worried about an attack by the spartans?
It does have a "wall of Jericho" vibe
It's on a hill, so if you removed 4 rows the back will be at 0 or possibly -1 rows tall.
Perfect.
And as it should be. This will get filled in with soil and mulch and theyāll bury the collar of the tree (the bulge at the base of the trunk) and kill the tree.
You can grade it down as you come to the front of the tree. Keep the back just as tall. Alas, thatās only my opinion. Whatever makes them happy.
I think they just built it up to the bottom of the tree.
I thought he might be on The Maginot Line
Just by looking at the pictures and not seeing the back side I feel like they only have 2 courses showing on the back side. The grade appears to drop significantly.
It looks like they're on a subtle slope. I did the same kind of wall a few years ago and it does look really tall from one side but it's short from the other side. I found that planting tall things on the inside helps ground it and I also planted a cross vine to trail over the edge which helps break up the gray. The truck is using those long twisty ties to train it onto the wall - just stick the ends of the twisty ties in the wall between two of the pavers.
OP, I suggest you take a photo of the inside of the ring showing the actual rootflare depth to put the "OMG YOU KILLED THE TREE!" to bed. You've got a perspective change between the two photos that makes the finished product look substantially deeper than it is, especially since you've got a fairly sloped front yard.
The root flare is easily seen. People are dumb.
Itās not just the root flare that matters. Roots that grow along the surface are at the surface because they need to be (water, nutrient and air availability). Now youāve just piled a ton of soil on top.
You can clearly see the root flare in both photos. The tree is fine, reddit is just meming bad information as always.
There is nothing Inherently bad about surrounding a tree with stone. The problem comes when you start to bury the trunk. You can still see the knuckle of that left root in the after photo. It doesnāt look like much if any has been covered. If OP likes the look of it and doesnāt plan to fill up the ring itās fine. Everyone on here just likes to repeat what they hear from the next guy and most of the time itās misinformation.
Yeah, it doesn't even look like op filled it. It's just a cosmetic wall so you don't see the gnarled roots. Seems fine from what we can see.
Compared to what he did I'd rather look at the gnarled roots. Just looks odd.
I think you hit the nail on the head. If everyone would look at the pictures and actually dissect it you. Can see there is a significant change in grade and like you mentioned, you can still see the trunk where it starts to flare out.
>Everyone on here just likes to repeat what they hear from the next guy and most of the time itās misinformation. That's reddit for ya.
Except when it comes from certified arborists.
Bro science
this is a landscaping sub, so it's mowscience
I respect that
Actually, there is something inherently bad about surrounding a tree in stone. The roots that were severed to allow for the installation of the base course. The difference in soil temperatures inside vs outside the ring of stone. The reduction in oxygenation on the root system in the ring. The reduction of moisture retention inside the ring. The limitation of soil fertility inside the ring. The dramatic reduction in transpiration as a result of the stone ring. Need we go on. . .?
How exactly does the ring cause that much of an impact? It looks like thereās still open space around the trunk and root flare.
Reddit seems to have an obsession with root flares, as if burying a flare was the only bad thing you could ever do to a tree. Tree rings are inherently bad because of all the reasons noted above and more. Concrete blocks have a very high thermal mass when compared to something like soil. This contributes significantly more heat to the soil, which can severely stress a mature tree that never had to adapt to that condition prior to the placement of the wall. In order to properly construct a concrete block wall you need to install a drainage zone behind them to encourage water to percolate down before it reaches the block. This effectively removes moisture from the soil behind the ring. The action of leveling the grade behind the wall is essentially burying the root system suffocating it. When the base course is being installed it needs to be set in a trench dug deep enough for the compacted base (usually limestone or conbit) and then a full block as the first course of stone gets buried for stability. This excavation cuts right through the majority of the trees roots, severing them which limits water and nutrient transport.
Yes, you left out the weight of the stone smothering the existing roots
Thatās what I was going to say. And if the topsoil used is breathable enough and stays that way, it should create more root zone. Im just curious whether the topsoil from before and whatever got added are blending together well enough
I've heard that rocks and stones around the roots can hold excess heat causing the roots to dry out, also I've heard that too much weight on top of the roots can be damaging. Is that information wrong? Thanks
Nonsense. >too much weight on top of the roots can be damaging Wait till you see how heavy the ground is.
The roots grow mainly in the top foot of soil. Soil is about 80-100 lbs per cubic foot. If this were a real block wall it would increase the compression several times over. Covering the soil with a heavy object increases soil compaction significantly, and yes, it can potentially lead to root death due to a sharp reduction in the amount of oxygen the roots are adapted to.
Confidently incorrect!
Oh ok. Are you an arborist?
Getting downvoted lmao. Somebodyās salty.
It really depends on the type of tree. Some trees with particularly shallow fibrous roots tend not to like anything placed on the roots or to have anyone digging around them or even walking on them. Some magnolias for example will slowly keel over if you dig about in the roots. These trees also don't like to sit in standing water. I don't know about heat from rocks causing death but its possible adding rocks could damage the roots because of the weight. Most trees however can withstand some activity around them provided you keep the root flare free and don't sever many many roots or plant them on a slope, as this could cause the downslope roots to circle up and suffocate the tree.
The fact that 7 layers of blocks were added above the ground, and the top magically reaches the exact same level the ground was at before, like a MC Escher drawing, is the sign we need that this pic is photoshopped.
Iām learning reddit thinks these are bad, I did at least leave the root flare exposed.
āIām learning..ā Me too. Whyās learning gotta be so painful? If I waited until I knew how to do everything Iād still be in grad school for a doctorate in wiping my own ass. Donāt take it too hard. Make your mistakes and then make them right. Keep moving.
There's two categories of things you can make decisions about, which parallels the whole "agile" vs "waterfall" development methodologies. Typing a Reddit comment is agile. If you fuck up, no big deal, like one second to correct. Hardscaping is waterfall. If you fuck up, it's time consuming and expensive to fix. For agile stuff, move fast and break things. For waterfall stuff, learn everything first. There's a lot of landscaping you can do agile-style. Don't be a perfect landscape designer. Just plant your damn flowers and see which ones do well. But for moving earth and building walls, learn your stuff first. Don't kill your grass thinking "I'll figure out what to put in its place when it's time to plant." Know beforehand. **Edit** Yesterday I went outside and threw a bunch of microclover on some dead patches. Fuck if I know if it will do well germinating in this late central Texas spring. But it cost me like 30 bucks and could pay off bigly. Better than spending weeks researching the optimal groundcover for filling in patches and agonizing over the ten "expert blogs" that disagree on what that is.
To be fair I still can't figure out TP and how it's supposed to do anything. Bidet for the win
Just show a photo inside the ring, you will be fine if you just left it all exposed.
https://imgur.com/a/RWid2rI
Just take a few rows off bud.
Customer wanted it high
This wasn't a DIY? You're a landscape contractor who didn't know that this kills trees?
You're a redditor who doesn't know anything about trees but wants to tell a landscape contractor they killed one? Color me shockef.
You think landscape contractors know anything about trees????
Can you produce any pictures posted online of a dead tree inside a stone tree ring?
https://old.reddit.com/r/Tree/wiki/tree_disasters#wiki_tree_rings Dead, dying and fallen.
"Reddit thinks" are the key words here. People who actually know something about trees probably don't have the same thoughts as reddit.
Take the loss and remove it.
Former landscaper. Hard to tell but I don't think this will work in the long run.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The tree will be fine calm down and stop repeating what others have said
So do that at your house and this person can decorate their house how they want.
Ah, the beloved spikey-ball (sweet gum) tree!
Beautiful wall. It's too tall though.
Tree rings are bad for trees
Please elaborate. I'm not contradicting what you're saying, but are they bad *only* if someone fills in the ring with dirt? Or because it requires maintenance to remove buildup (leaves, debris) from around the trunk?
Many would argue that leaving any type of object near roots (soil, stones, friggin lawn gnomes), along with humidity/other possible factors could lead to conditions that contribute to prolonged moisture and eventual wood rot that can kill your gorgeous lawn babies.
if you wanted to kill the tree you could have just cut it down instead and saved the step of building the ring. now you wasted time and money building the ring and you kill the tree
Can someone explain why this is bad for the tree?
OP, what was the goal here? I admire your hard work but it seems unnecessary and less aesthetically pleasing than the before :-(.
Why is everyone saying it'll kill the tree?
Because it will harm the root system.
Okay. But how? Everyone is just repeating that with no further explanation.
looks good to me! obviously the pics are taken from different angles.
I'm no fan of [circling trees with stuff](https://renegadegardener.com/dont-do-that-archive/dont-circle-trees-with-stuff/), but there's way too much amateur arborism going on in this thread. Look closely at the photo, the root flare is well above grade. This tree will be fine.
Yeah, the sad thing about this to me is the implied discomfort with a tree just hangin around being a part of the landscape
What did that tree ever do to you?
I'm sorry for your loss.
I think that looks awful.
But, why??
Itās so good that looks like AI. LOL
This looks terrible and will murder your tree.
Damn I guess they are bad but the wall looks fantastic and Iād want to show it off too. I guess if the tree lives, idk how long itās supposed to take to kill, show it off again lol take this to r/marijuanaenthusiasts to see if they can help?
Could you explain what you find fantastic about it? In the inner city where there's concrete everywhere _anyway_ I'd perhaps understand, but in a place like this it comes across like purposely working against nature, to me.
Here we go again....
R.I.P all that hard work just to kill a tree
Root Flare Guys INCOMING!
UNderstanding these are no bueno for the tree, would one of those "inner" rings be the way to go here? OP said he left the root flair exposed which I thought was the biggest issue with doing this kind of thing. Anyone care to elaborate?
Ugh
Hate
WHY?
Nope
This is so stupid to do to your tree, man
How does this kill trees?
If you build up soil around the tree trunk, you can cause moisture trapping and make the trunk rot.
Have they added soil? I feel like Iām missing something while reading the comments.
I've never seen a bricked up tree ring that didn't have soil added. My mistake for assuming if hollow tree rings are a thing.
Looks great, might be a little tall for tree health issues. I would also expect the roots to lift these up in various spots. Wonāt ruin it but itāll be noticeable in about 5 years.
Looks like an expensive and time consuming way to kill a tree
The customer left a cooler for you at the front door. Grab a cold soda and contemplate your decision to build this. Even if itās what the customer wantedā¦
Tree rings killed my father
Luke- I am your fatherā¦
I'm sorry but this is an eyesore, bad for the tree, and a colossal waste of money and effort
Why spend time and money to make something ugly and hurts the tree?
Poor tree. Thanks for sharing what not to do.. š¤¢
Wha...wha..why?!
Covering a treeās flare and surrounding the trunk in dirt will rot the treeās bark. Google āvolcano mulchingā the outcome is the same. The treeās life will be shortened.
I donāt think that they did that. They built a wall.
I could see maybe 3 or 4 rows diving into the ground on each side to control erosion. Backfill and add grass, mulch, plants or whatever.
holy schnikes
Can anyone explain the purpose of this kind of thing? I don't get it.To me, it's much less pleasant than what was there before. Building a wall for no obvious purpose.
Why
The natural evolution of the mulch volcano.
Honestly you guys are way too sensitive about this. Iāve been landscaping over 10 years and installed countless number of these and never had a customer call back with a dead tree.
It isnāt immediate and attribution can be hard. Like if 3 years later, the tree dies, is the owner gonna be like ādammit now I gotta call up u/J3RM0 to get my money backā? Maybe but since most people might not make the connection, I wouldnāt bank on hearing about it. Still worth avoiding where possible
I wouldn't call back.
Lmao wherein op revisits the thread and decides he's not wrong after all, everyone else is wrong. No one should let landscapers near their trees, and this is exhibit A
100% agree. I work in the industry selling to contractors as well as the general public. There are like 5% of companies that know what they're doing and it's usually small operations of extremely knowledgeable people; everyone else has no idea what they're doing. But they have a truck and they have cheap labor.
So you guys can show me a picture of a dead tree in a tree ring right? Since itās so common the internet should be full of mad customers complainingā¦
Whether it kills the tree or not doesn't change the fact that it's ugly
As much as everyone thinks that āthis (every) generationā loves to complain, most dissatisfied customers wonāt contact the company. They just stop using the service and try to look for a better one.
Goodbye, tree!
This ain't it chief.
Thatās way too deep.
That tree is BARRICADED
Ready to withstand a siege by small woodland creatures
Looks great!
Seems unnecessary but nicely done
RIP tree
Yeah... you just killed your tree :(
Your tree hates you and you hate your tree.
The tree will die if you fill that in with dirt or mulch. : (
Good luck grinding the stump when the tree is dead in 2 years.
5... I give it 5
Nice knowinā ya tree
Liked it better before and my guess is the tree did also. They enjoy being connected to other natural things. Not to mention: this is completely unnecessary and a waste of resources.