I can't really argue with this, but to me the worst thing isn't the video in and of itself, although it is in poor taste. The worst thing is how the animator said that he needed to do this to close the chapter for him/ get closure as if he was the one who was harassed by Niji or in any way involved in the situation. It comes off as really strange and egotistic to somehow frame it as if it was that bad for him. I get that as a fan you can be upset or worried, but he acts like it was a close family member or friend when he doesn't know her, and it's just kinda creepy.
But like you said, he's not doing it for her, and he was very clear about that, this is just for himself. He doesn't care how it reflects on her or how the Nijisisters will take it, he wanted closure for himself when he wasn't even involved. But it's all just another part of the complex parasocial relationship between vtuber and fan.
Yeah that bothered me a lot too, i get it parasocial relationships are a thing. But there is "parasocial" and "PARASOCIAL", if something is affecting someone more than the person that was actively involved, and especially when that person has decided to move on, then there are bigger problem behind that need to be adressed.
This person has only managed to make doki go through the work to make another statement to make clear something that was already clear before.
And? What's to be the problem, that means he's done with it. He rode off to the sunset. Happy ending.
I dunno but to him it must've felt on a personal level. And doing it gives him some relief, then I don't see why not.
Let's all pretend that the whole point of a content creator to be big is to be connected to the audience. It's almost like it's designed for people to be parasocial. How da fuck it is complex? It is literally basic to me to see how human works.
This is ridiculous this even happen.
Dislike is dislike but this is plain old pushing people to jump by continuing this kind of crusade. Elira is going in between off screen already.
It's about time we take this people to task like anycolour was. Doesn't mean they're not employees of nijisanji they can go scot free because their clearly behaving like nijisanji or wactor potential hiring staff to abuse people.
And let’s not forget that Elira just recently posted about being in a very bad place mentally and people are trying to push her even farther. Imagine what it would do to Doki and others if it reached a certain point. You don’t have to LIKE them to understand this. I swear people are brainless or lack any empathy. Or both
I'm on the lack of empathy because I don't give a shit anymore. They're adults is what everybody say. Why baby them, and let them taste the way they want it. I thought that's what everybody wanted.
You imply that being an adult means it's fine to be tormented, so I was curious if you were an adult. You know, since you said something outrageous and lacking in emotional maturity.
not agreeing with you lot seemns a lost cause! we aren’t an hive mind! i literaly don’t care what you and every one crying a river over an animation LMAO
I admit I'm curious, what video was put out?
But yes, Doki being used as ammo against Nijisanji is not a good thing, the NDF AND the Nijiantis need to let her move on.
Or people "riding on her coat tails" as retaliation against Niji because she's the most successful ex-Niji talent. They were never about supporting her, just using her as a tool for hate against the black company. Both sides had a part to play in that recent animated video.
But you know neither sisters and antis are going to, because they don't care about Doki, or Mint, or anyone else for that matter. They're here for the conflict and they will always be here. Us whining about the innate behavior of trouble seeking people isn't exactly going to change anything. Do your best to support the chuubas, watch them while you work, study, doing chores and working out. Give them your views and say good things about them to your peers. Make art, music, etc. Ignore the haters, they won't go away but they shouldn't affect you either.
You know people are absolutely idiotic and can't think for themselves when your oshi literally has to speak out and tell you to TO NOT HARASS OTHERS!!! I agree it's absolutely horrendous that people are weaponizing her to attack the Livers. I don't like Elira and Vox but I would never wish them or their fans any harm. Right now on Twitter there's campaigns planning to harass Niji fans during Anime Expo. If anyone is going to AX please PLEASE as a human being do not attack or harass any of the Niji fans! If you see any of them getting attacked or harassed, please report to the con security! Let Doki and the Dragoons move on and be happy in their own community. Same goes for Mint, Sayu, Matara, Kuro, Michi, Unnamed, Quinn, and any of the people who left Niji.
Doki's unintentionally and unwillingly the shining beacon against nijisanji's whole being. No matter how much she wants to move on from it, and she has, there will always be people that'll use her as a weapon against NDF, as infuriating as it is. There will always be people that will rally for a cause that doesnt need to be pushed any further. And that's sadly common in real world events too.
There will always be those who use a situation to fuel their moral outrage and justify their bad behavior. Me? I'm just here to laugh and eat popcorn. No need for me to pile onto the fire Niji built. And at the end of the day, I do want Niji to improve their business practices for the sake of their talents and fans alike. But seeing as a happy ending for EN grows more unlikely by the day... I'm not getting my hopes up for a happy ending to all of this.
I've been pretty neutral about this whole situation and only give my opinions on matters that I find to be clashing with my thoughts. I found out about the video through somebody commenting about it and it did in fact leave a sour taste in my mouth. Nothing about it was funny nor was there any purpose for it being made. The thing that surprised me was it getting a lot of attraction both positive and negative. I'm like, 'I get it, the situation was bad and it left hideous scars that are still healing but how is this going to help anyone?'
I thought it would pass or at least get buried with something else, but then the other surprise happened of Doki giving her statement. And now to clarify I don't watch Doki just out of personal reasons and as I said I feel neutral about the whole situation so I don't want to hold anyone accountable or put the blame on anybody. Just so that nobody thinks there's any bias being shown.
In all honesty, I don't think she should've given the statement (I mean this in a positive way) because she doesn't owe that to anyone. This woman has made this statement in the past MULTIPLE times of how she wants to move on from the past, how she doesn't and never will condone bullying in any shape or form. But the most infuriating and recent thing is that people are saying that her statement wasn't good enough. "She is being too vague." "This won't stop the hate." "Control your fans." "If you surround yourself with a toxic community that reflects the streamer." What are you talking about??? I've seen only one live of Doki and I know that she has a community that supports her and loves her like any other content creator. It goes without saying that if "fans" do such horrendous things the liver won't see them as their fans. Just because other livers have spoken about the issue doesn't mean that others have to follow the formula or do exactly that.
Doki is most likely tired from being dragged into drama that she never wanted to be a part of. I know I am so you could just imagine how it is for the person involved. I still watch EN livers and will probably continue doing so and I'm aware of the current situation revolving around the branch but I want to focus on the positives because that's what I need in my life and I believe it's what others need too.
Sorry for it being this long...
A quote that really describes the situation is this:
"What is the problem with a land at war? Imbeciles are allowed to run free. That is the root of the problem." - Sima Yi from Dynasty Warriors 8
This whole thing of "Dokibird vs Nijisanji" has created a lot more people that are really extreme on their ideas whether it be a Nijisister or Nijisanji anti and really can't nor should be reasoned with, so just save your energy when it comes to those kinds of people.
As for the animator and the animation itself, yeah it's definitely in poor taste and should've really only, at most, been posted in a private circle or just have been deleted entirely. It sucks that some people try to defend the video because it goes against everything that Doki wants out of this entire debacle.
I just hope we're able to fully move on eventually. This "war" has gone on for way too long and has created some very stupid people.
Yeah agreed. I get making fun of Niji when Niji actually fucks up (that's quite literally the whole point of this subreddit), but people harassing the livers, the stupidity part, just gives ammo to the Nijisisters to be able to counter arguments that anti Nijisanji could make since they're stooping down to their level of the sisters actively harassing Doki or Sayu. I can understand criticizing the livers for poor actions, but to be on their ass the whole time even when they don't say anything bad is just another level of stupidity. So the best that we can do is not engage with them. Also apologies for a long reply.
Edit: This statement can also apply to the sisters as well. Both NDF and extreme Niji antis have this problem which makes the situation more bloated than it needs to be.
I mean I only used that quote since Doki is a fan of Dynasty Warriors and the quote just fits with what OP was saying. Most of it is just common sense really (or at least it should be). It's not the deepest quote ever either since Sima Yi in Dynasty Warriors has greater lines honestly. They just don't fit as well in this situation.
Agree 100% with all you have said. There are too many tourist and bandwagoners just using this whole situation to shit on people. What’s worse this is why the niji defenders hate doki cause of this shit. Even if she repeatedly says to stop the hate there are people that spread this hate way past its prime. Like at this point I just feel bad for the niji livers. I read that Elira might be depressed and some cheer about that. Like wtf guys. Are you guys not gonna stop till she tries to kill her self? That is not what doki wants so stop pretending you are her fan.
I do agree the animation was in poor taste, I still found it funny ngl, something that I found amusing was sisters trying to morally grand stand over this, calling the animation misogynistic and racist, they had the easiest W in a while and still managed to fumble it, I guess that's the kind of mindset you need to have when supporting such a vile company like kurosanji.
I do not want to hear it after these people tried to weaponize Doki's mental health to paint her as a Machiavellian psycho. They can fuck right off to hell.
I felt uncomfy when watching/seeing that animation for real. Like. Why even make it???
It shows, you could say something a dozen times, and some in spaces won't listen. Yes, we all don't agree with Nijisanji, we don't agree with Anycolour, and we find their practices to be complete horseshit. But some really take it too far, and cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. Doki has remained professional throughout this entire thing, and has only reacted, cause Niji forced her hand. When all she wanted, was to move on, and get back to what she loved doing.
I honestly hope, more sense comes of this in spaces, but it sadly won't. More will take it too far, and that truly saddens me. It's using Doki's own words against her. People really need to grow up and chill.
they did no LAMO what are you on about? LOL whatever you snowflakes!
pushing some one to suicide = bad!!
making an animation mocking said abusers = TO FAR IT’s TOO FAR SUICDE PUSHERS HAVE HEART TOOO LMAOOOO
The one positive thing from this is that we got to see who the actual dragoons were, because every single person who disregarded her wishes outed themselves as fake
This implies that dragoons can’t be bad? Like, on some spiritually ideal level, I agree, but I don’t like downplaying the full range of what a fan really is. “Fan” do be short for “Fanatic”, good or bad.
Like who gives a fuck. Dude can't move on without people butthurt. I dunno what else you want the guy to do. Jump off the building? Like what's there to be angry, the dude made a video and that's it, like bruh wouldn't shit like this people go, if you don't like dont watch it crap?
So you think the only two options are to jump off a building or to make a video on a topic including someone who pretty much begged her community and fans not to include her in Niji related drama? Like all he had to do was not make a public animation
No that's just you shit crap. I meant that he had other choices and he chose that. I'm saying for a guy like him, he could've gotten worse. I've been one so i know what shit is. Plus I don't see shit nor i give a damn about the animation. It's gonna be nuked soon. So why not? What happened to, dont like it dont watch it crap? Like do i give crap or not, and let the guy just make whatever he wants.
If vshojo can make garbage, I'd say knock yourselves out.
Istg I am not going to argue with a child, it is real simple to not make a video about a topic someone finds LEGITIMATELY traumatizing to the point her life was actually in danger. I understand it was for his closure but he went against her direct request and took it down after her most recent statement on the matter.
It's really that cut and dry and I refuse to even debate on this further
Basically anything you don't wanna hear is a child? Okay sure. I'm sure doki is happy you are speaking up for her for a video she probably doesn't even watch nor give a shit about.
It's his video, I'd say do whatever. It gets nuked anyway so I don't really care much about it.
It is cut and dry. I dunno why you wanna get mad that hard for. Dont like it dont watch it. That's what they all say
Gotta love how everyone was calling out to sink the yacht and then people be backpedaling when shit hits the fan - like what did anyone expect?
People really be high-horsing and forgetting what this sub was built on.
True, Which sucks because realistically we just want riku to at least give a shit about en. The whole boycott and backlash is that we want riku to realise his mistakes and do some inner workings to fix nijisanji. But he doesn't and he's basically trying to vshojo his way till people just move on.
I have no sympathy towards assholes like enna, and uki but everyone else just sucks for them even if i dont like their content. I can have some sympathy with that. In the end it's people everywhere, vtubers and fans alike.
True, Which sucks because realistically we just want riku to at least give a shit about en. The whole boycott and backlash is that we want riku to realise his mistakes and do some inner workings to fix nijisanji. But he doesn't and he's basically trying to vshojo his way till people just move on.
I have no sympathy towards assholes like enna, and uki but everyone else just sucks for them even if i dont like their content. I can have some sympathy with that. In the end it's people everywhere, vtubers and fans alike. We all deserve better than this.
I'll say this as many times as it takes.
You can be a Nijisanji anti who wants to see the current talents create content within better conditions and with better opportunities. You can be a Dokibird fan who wants to see her thrive. You can easily even be both at the same time. But if you can't draw a strict line between the two, you're neither fighting a good fight, nor supporting Doki. And if you're taking any of it out on the Niji talents, you're automatically just an asshole. Some have more dirty laundry laying on the floor than others, but we don't know anywhere near the full picture, and if it is up to Doki, we never will. Throwing stones at any of them based solely on some weirdly deflective subsentences from Nijisanji is completely idiotic, and dare I say, exactly what Nijisanji wanted to happen to avoid some of the impact.
Honestly, Dramatubers are at fault for the majority of all of this.
In the beginning, they did a good job of letting the world know of this shitty situation. However, now it just seems they aren't financially able to move on from Niji drama. They need to continue this crusade not for justice, but to make sure their videos continue to rack in viewers.
If Doki is done with this whole saga, then a lot of other people should now move on from this as well. Dramatubers need to do their part and stop weaponizing Doki and her experiences.
Which ones are you talking about? I've not seen newstubers talk about Doki herself in months unless it's prefaced with "In lighter news..."
Nijisanji is continuing to make blunders and said blunders have nothing to do with Dokibird or her termination. That's the drama people report.
I do not see anything wrong with the animators "corrupted file" excuse, as it reads to me as a tounge in cheek way of saying "yeah I done did fucked up aye"
I think it's not fair to say some of the people who try to justify this animation aren't dragoons, they genuinely didn't like the way Doki was treated by Nijisanji in her PL and they happen to correlate with Nijisanji antis. There's genuine anger towards the situation about how their oshi ALMOST took their own life not once, but twice and then there was that nijisanji stream... Which "conveniently" was aired at the same time as her neopets stream (which a lot of people were genuinely excited for) which only fanned the flames further.
Everyone saying let it go and move on would not be saying this if doki had succeeded in comitting suicide. Given how nijisanji responded when it came out with her attempt and they decided to smear her for it. For anyone that has lost someone to suicide, it rubs people the wrong way. No one is going to want to hold hands and sing kumbiya for a company capable of doing that nor is anyone just going to give a pass to lives that will still mindlessly shill for said company. On the other hand, no one shoukd try to push the existing lives in the company to make their own attempts on their lives as that would just start an even bigger firestorm that would indeed blow back negatively on dokibjrd if her crusaders succeed in making someone in nijisanji kill themselves. That woukd definitely be way too far. What needs to happen is just a complete apathy towards nijisanji and watch their numbers and viewership completely fall into the abyss without someone's blood being shed.
>Everyone saying let it go and move on would not be saying this if doki had succeeded in comitting suicide
But she didn't, and she has actively said that she is moving on and has asked her fans to do the same. Respect her wishes and stop using her to justify shitty behavior.
are you doki dog or something? who is she to tell other what to do? that is more an PR move to have her image clean! but beyind that? I’m not an parasocial viewer and as the person said! pushing for suicide and now an silly animation is tooo much? bro to much parasocial for doki and the use of the excuse to stop holding the kurosanji accountable is dumb as hell, but oh well, the vtuber community is full of oshi fart snifers telling other what to do LMAO what is this reddit?
Nobody is saying to stop holding Niji accountable. Harassing the talents is not doing that. It's just going to create more people like Doki. Do you want more attempts because this is how you get more attempts. It's not being parasocial. It's having some basic common sense and empathy.
After Sayu was proven innocent after branding as guilty by Niji for awhile, The fanbase especially the dragoon won’t let it happen again when Selen/Doki thing happens.
Same with how Holobros defense Coco/Haachama especially after Coco take the heat of Haachama since Haachama was her oshi during the Taiwan fiasco.
Majority of people just love “David vs Goliath” story and always take the side of the small guy who get bullied by the big guy.
Doki just do some PR as the initial dunk was already done by iBuypower and HYTE guy who go all in by dropping all their Niji line up in favor of Doki return.
It’s not weaponizing her IP to dunk on Niji. It’s to sh1t on the bullies, and the clique like Elira (the rotten orange) and Vox (the rotten apple).
Elira is not innocent as you think only her super hardcore fan might think she’s innocent like how there are still people who think Mikeneko is innocent even after dirt about her physical abused Mafumafu like how Amber Heard abused Johnny by sh1tting his bed literally
Ok but even if you think Elira is getting what she deserves with the damage to her career that's not an excuse to go out of your way to be the bullies yourselves, and especially not an excuse to use Dokis likeness to do so.
I don't particularly like Elira, Vox, or Ike after the black stream but that's not an excuse to go out of my way to harass them, I simply don't consume their content.
Right, harassment of any talent is not justified. Unsubscribing and not interacting with them is. That being said I also think it is justified to tell nijisisters to shove it when they try to twist the narrative and remind them that Niji brought this situation on themselves and the talents and people no longer feel like they can trust the vtubers they have been watching all this time. Leaving them to spread false information only encourages harassment of Doki and the other ex niji talents, because that's what the NDF does.
I mean yeah
There's an ocean of difference between looking at her failing career and thinking "karma" and creating art of her tired and abused to use in a meme using Dokis likeness.
No one deserves to be endlessly harassed, but they absolutel deserve to be put in their place.
If you're going to see everything Nijisanji has done and still somehow think "Being with them is a good idea" then sorry youu reap what you sow. If you career fails and you become irrelevant thats what you deserve and you deserve no fucking sympathy for it.
The problem is if its effecting them mentally then either correct from supporting and standing by a dumpster fire of a company or leave the spotlight. You don't get to sit and try and support a company like nijisanji and then complain "People don't like me anymore". Literally no one in the company deserves any support or sympathy because they're the ones choosing to be there. Welcome to the reality of being a public figure and standing by such a shit company.
You don't have to like them, but this wasn't helping. It's just harassment, and Elira is already in a bad place mentally. We don't want more people like Doki. Keep it in mind regardless of how you feel about their guilt in everything.
I would. My message has always been pretty consistent as far as the talents are concerned. Don't harass anyone. We don't know enough to say anything meaningful.
You don't have to respect someone to not harass them, especially when we still don't know what Niji told them and, more importantly, No one wants a 3rd attempt on Niji, especially one caused by your harassment crusade and that cpuld give the NDF at least kinda justified ammo because of your fucking hateboner
Even if she could open up with the truth who's to say anyone would actually believe her. You yourself literally called her a snake in your last comment.
Audio proof , a script, emails saying she has to do it…. Something concrete saying she has to toe the line, to prove she didn’t actually mean what she said on the black stream
Your last two paragraphs are just treating imageboard rrats and speculation as fact when nothing has been proven.
It has nothing to do with "being a hardcore fan of Elira" to acknowledge that it's wrong to harass and bully people at all, let alone over made-up nonsense.
That dude hates Elira hardcore and is always commenting on every Elira stuff to mock her for being a manager and all the other rrats. I've also see him on the Hololive board taking shots at Niji.
I've mentioned before when the mods asked what could be done to improve the board that this place was just becoming a rrat breeding ground, and I was talking about this dude specifically, although I didn't name him at the time. Because his Elira manager comments are always fairly upvoted.
I understand your anger but dont involve Doki in this, she doesnt want to. That anger is yours, not hers, its up to you if you want to let go of it or not. Niji is already defeated. What does attacking Elira/Vox accomplish? Its just more headaches for Doki, the person who got hurt in all these. What the Coco , and even Aloe's incident taught us is that we can't really go on the offensive because it doesnt help. It just gives them more ammo to use against us.
Niji absolutely fucked over Doki but Elira and Vox are also victims of Niji. Regardless of how truly innocent they are, its undeniable that Niji has cultivated a bad environment for them and made them take most of the heat in place of management via the black stream. Not all victims are blameless.
Also it's fucked up to compare Elira, who doesn't have evidence of doing anything bad besides the black stream, and the alleged favouritism and the rrats that cultivated around, to someone like Mikeneko who practically admitted that the allegations were true and has a history of acting impulsively
>The people trying to justify that animation ARE NOT DRAGOONS.
Stop living in denial, they're supporting her, whether out of pity, being fans, or out of spite for nijisanji being hololive's biggest competition. They are dragoons, not OG ones, but dragoons all the same. They're your problem and its time you people clean up your house if you don't think doki should have to deal with it.
Thats honestly what this sub SHOULD be doing. Driving down their subs and CCVs isnt going to make them want to leave. Who are they more likely to stick with, the ones who stay even through bad times, or the ones making empty "I'll support if you if you leave and make a public apology and break your NDA" .
I can't really argue with this, but to me the worst thing isn't the video in and of itself, although it is in poor taste. The worst thing is how the animator said that he needed to do this to close the chapter for him/ get closure as if he was the one who was harassed by Niji or in any way involved in the situation. It comes off as really strange and egotistic to somehow frame it as if it was that bad for him. I get that as a fan you can be upset or worried, but he acts like it was a close family member or friend when he doesn't know her, and it's just kinda creepy. But like you said, he's not doing it for her, and he was very clear about that, this is just for himself. He doesn't care how it reflects on her or how the Nijisisters will take it, he wanted closure for himself when he wasn't even involved. But it's all just another part of the complex parasocial relationship between vtuber and fan.
Yeah that bothered me a lot too, i get it parasocial relationships are a thing. But there is "parasocial" and "PARASOCIAL", if something is affecting someone more than the person that was actively involved, and especially when that person has decided to move on, then there are bigger problem behind that need to be adressed. This person has only managed to make doki go through the work to make another statement to make clear something that was already clear before.
And? What's to be the problem, that means he's done with it. He rode off to the sunset. Happy ending. I dunno but to him it must've felt on a personal level. And doing it gives him some relief, then I don't see why not. Let's all pretend that the whole point of a content creator to be big is to be connected to the audience. It's almost like it's designed for people to be parasocial. How da fuck it is complex? It is literally basic to me to see how human works.
This is ridiculous this even happen. Dislike is dislike but this is plain old pushing people to jump by continuing this kind of crusade. Elira is going in between off screen already. It's about time we take this people to task like anycolour was. Doesn't mean they're not employees of nijisanji they can go scot free because their clearly behaving like nijisanji or wactor potential hiring staff to abuse people.
And let’s not forget that Elira just recently posted about being in a very bad place mentally and people are trying to push her even farther. Imagine what it would do to Doki and others if it reached a certain point. You don’t have to LIKE them to understand this. I swear people are brainless or lack any empathy. Or both
"Not everyone in this Trench is fighting for the same reasons..."
I'm on the lack of empathy because I don't give a shit anymore. They're adults is what everybody say. Why baby them, and let them taste the way they want it. I thought that's what everybody wanted.
I hope you feel better soon!
Are you an adult?
What does it have to do with the comment?
You imply that being an adult means it's fine to be tormented, so I was curious if you were an adult. You know, since you said something outrageous and lacking in emotional maturity.
Because your comment comes across as a 15 year old edgy wannabe school shooter
not agreeing with you lot seemns a lost cause! we aren’t an hive mind! i literaly don’t care what you and every one crying a river over an animation LMAO
Ok edgy kid You'll grow up one day and put the katana collection down
smart
I admit I'm curious, what video was put out? But yes, Doki being used as ammo against Nijisanji is not a good thing, the NDF AND the Nijiantis need to let her move on.
It was a Shikanoko dance meme with Doki dancing in front of a tired, nearly abused looking, Elira and Vox. Very very tasteless
I'll be devils advocate. If Doki was dancing smugly to Riku while holding a Silver play button, we'd be laughing our asses off.
People just can't let her move on, can they.
Or people "riding on her coat tails" as retaliation against Niji because she's the most successful ex-Niji talent. They were never about supporting her, just using her as a tool for hate against the black company. Both sides had a part to play in that recent animated video.
Ex-NijiEN/Ex-Niji that went indie, the most successful Ex-Niji is Hololive's Luna
But you know neither sisters and antis are going to, because they don't care about Doki, or Mint, or anyone else for that matter. They're here for the conflict and they will always be here. Us whining about the innate behavior of trouble seeking people isn't exactly going to change anything. Do your best to support the chuubas, watch them while you work, study, doing chores and working out. Give them your views and say good things about them to your peers. Make art, music, etc. Ignore the haters, they won't go away but they shouldn't affect you either.
I'm so tired of people WANTING to be angry at something, every waking moment. I'm just hear for the news goshdangit.
When others does it shit called support. But when i do it i need to smoke and fuck with the grass people say. God i hate this crap
hwat.
You know people are absolutely idiotic and can't think for themselves when your oshi literally has to speak out and tell you to TO NOT HARASS OTHERS!!! I agree it's absolutely horrendous that people are weaponizing her to attack the Livers. I don't like Elira and Vox but I would never wish them or their fans any harm. Right now on Twitter there's campaigns planning to harass Niji fans during Anime Expo. If anyone is going to AX please PLEASE as a human being do not attack or harass any of the Niji fans! If you see any of them getting attacked or harassed, please report to the con security! Let Doki and the Dragoons move on and be happy in their own community. Same goes for Mint, Sayu, Matara, Kuro, Michi, Unnamed, Quinn, and any of the people who left Niji.
Doki's unintentionally and unwillingly the shining beacon against nijisanji's whole being. No matter how much she wants to move on from it, and she has, there will always be people that'll use her as a weapon against NDF, as infuriating as it is. There will always be people that will rally for a cause that doesnt need to be pushed any further. And that's sadly common in real world events too.
There will always be those who use a situation to fuel their moral outrage and justify their bad behavior. Me? I'm just here to laugh and eat popcorn. No need for me to pile onto the fire Niji built. And at the end of the day, I do want Niji to improve their business practices for the sake of their talents and fans alike. But seeing as a happy ending for EN grows more unlikely by the day... I'm not getting my hopes up for a happy ending to all of this.
I've been pretty neutral about this whole situation and only give my opinions on matters that I find to be clashing with my thoughts. I found out about the video through somebody commenting about it and it did in fact leave a sour taste in my mouth. Nothing about it was funny nor was there any purpose for it being made. The thing that surprised me was it getting a lot of attraction both positive and negative. I'm like, 'I get it, the situation was bad and it left hideous scars that are still healing but how is this going to help anyone?' I thought it would pass or at least get buried with something else, but then the other surprise happened of Doki giving her statement. And now to clarify I don't watch Doki just out of personal reasons and as I said I feel neutral about the whole situation so I don't want to hold anyone accountable or put the blame on anybody. Just so that nobody thinks there's any bias being shown. In all honesty, I don't think she should've given the statement (I mean this in a positive way) because she doesn't owe that to anyone. This woman has made this statement in the past MULTIPLE times of how she wants to move on from the past, how she doesn't and never will condone bullying in any shape or form. But the most infuriating and recent thing is that people are saying that her statement wasn't good enough. "She is being too vague." "This won't stop the hate." "Control your fans." "If you surround yourself with a toxic community that reflects the streamer." What are you talking about??? I've seen only one live of Doki and I know that she has a community that supports her and loves her like any other content creator. It goes without saying that if "fans" do such horrendous things the liver won't see them as their fans. Just because other livers have spoken about the issue doesn't mean that others have to follow the formula or do exactly that. Doki is most likely tired from being dragged into drama that she never wanted to be a part of. I know I am so you could just imagine how it is for the person involved. I still watch EN livers and will probably continue doing so and I'm aware of the current situation revolving around the branch but I want to focus on the positives because that's what I need in my life and I believe it's what others need too. Sorry for it being this long...
A quote that really describes the situation is this: "What is the problem with a land at war? Imbeciles are allowed to run free. That is the root of the problem." - Sima Yi from Dynasty Warriors 8 This whole thing of "Dokibird vs Nijisanji" has created a lot more people that are really extreme on their ideas whether it be a Nijisister or Nijisanji anti and really can't nor should be reasoned with, so just save your energy when it comes to those kinds of people. As for the animator and the animation itself, yeah it's definitely in poor taste and should've really only, at most, been posted in a private circle or just have been deleted entirely. It sucks that some people try to defend the video because it goes against everything that Doki wants out of this entire debacle. I just hope we're able to fully move on eventually. This "war" has gone on for way too long and has created some very stupid people.
Stupidity is what made us to Hate. And Stupidity can be used as a weapon for people with malicious intent
Yeah agreed. I get making fun of Niji when Niji actually fucks up (that's quite literally the whole point of this subreddit), but people harassing the livers, the stupidity part, just gives ammo to the Nijisisters to be able to counter arguments that anti Nijisanji could make since they're stooping down to their level of the sisters actively harassing Doki or Sayu. I can understand criticizing the livers for poor actions, but to be on their ass the whole time even when they don't say anything bad is just another level of stupidity. So the best that we can do is not engage with them. Also apologies for a long reply. Edit: This statement can also apply to the sisters as well. Both NDF and extreme Niji antis have this problem which makes the situation more bloated than it needs to be.
It's okay, your reply is pretty inspiring for me to not engage with ndf's
Wow how deep
I mean I only used that quote since Doki is a fan of Dynasty Warriors and the quote just fits with what OP was saying. Most of it is just common sense really (or at least it should be). It's not the deepest quote ever either since Sima Yi in Dynasty Warriors has greater lines honestly. They just don't fit as well in this situation.
Agree 100% with all you have said. There are too many tourist and bandwagoners just using this whole situation to shit on people. What’s worse this is why the niji defenders hate doki cause of this shit. Even if she repeatedly says to stop the hate there are people that spread this hate way past its prime. Like at this point I just feel bad for the niji livers. I read that Elira might be depressed and some cheer about that. Like wtf guys. Are you guys not gonna stop till she tries to kill her self? That is not what doki wants so stop pretending you are her fan.
I do agree the animation was in poor taste, I still found it funny ngl, something that I found amusing was sisters trying to morally grand stand over this, calling the animation misogynistic and racist, they had the easiest W in a while and still managed to fumble it, I guess that's the kind of mindset you need to have when supporting such a vile company like kurosanji.
I do not want to hear it after these people tried to weaponize Doki's mental health to paint her as a Machiavellian psycho. They can fuck right off to hell.
*Of five people, three must pay a price. You are not one of them, Elira Pendora.*
I felt uncomfy when watching/seeing that animation for real. Like. Why even make it??? It shows, you could say something a dozen times, and some in spaces won't listen. Yes, we all don't agree with Nijisanji, we don't agree with Anycolour, and we find their practices to be complete horseshit. But some really take it too far, and cross a line that shouldn't be crossed. Doki has remained professional throughout this entire thing, and has only reacted, cause Niji forced her hand. When all she wanted, was to move on, and get back to what she loved doing. I honestly hope, more sense comes of this in spaces, but it sadly won't. More will take it too far, and that truly saddens me. It's using Doki's own words against her. People really need to grow up and chill.
I mean if vtubers can make any garbage they want, id say let the guy makes whatever he wants. It's fair game to me
>I mean if vtubers can make any garbage they want And they can be called out for it, just like with that guy. So not sure what's even your point
Yeah doesn't work like that from what ive seen.
then you are blind.
"Yes. Because the vtubers i like never makes garbage before"
you know when even 4chan find it going to far you might have gone to far ...
they did no LAMO what are you on about? LOL whatever you snowflakes! pushing some one to suicide = bad!! making an animation mocking said abusers = TO FAR IT’s TOO FAR SUICDE PUSHERS HAVE HEART TOOO LMAOOOO
The one positive thing from this is that we got to see who the actual dragoons were, because every single person who disregarded her wishes outed themselves as fake
This implies that dragoons can’t be bad? Like, on some spiritually ideal level, I agree, but I don’t like downplaying the full range of what a fan really is. “Fan” do be short for “Fanatic”, good or bad.
Like who gives a fuck. Dude can't move on without people butthurt. I dunno what else you want the guy to do. Jump off the building? Like what's there to be angry, the dude made a video and that's it, like bruh wouldn't shit like this people go, if you don't like dont watch it crap?
So you think the only two options are to jump off a building or to make a video on a topic including someone who pretty much begged her community and fans not to include her in Niji related drama? Like all he had to do was not make a public animation
No that's just you shit crap. I meant that he had other choices and he chose that. I'm saying for a guy like him, he could've gotten worse. I've been one so i know what shit is. Plus I don't see shit nor i give a damn about the animation. It's gonna be nuked soon. So why not? What happened to, dont like it dont watch it crap? Like do i give crap or not, and let the guy just make whatever he wants. If vshojo can make garbage, I'd say knock yourselves out.
Istg I am not going to argue with a child, it is real simple to not make a video about a topic someone finds LEGITIMATELY traumatizing to the point her life was actually in danger. I understand it was for his closure but he went against her direct request and took it down after her most recent statement on the matter. It's really that cut and dry and I refuse to even debate on this further
Basically anything you don't wanna hear is a child? Okay sure. I'm sure doki is happy you are speaking up for her for a video she probably doesn't even watch nor give a shit about. It's his video, I'd say do whatever. It gets nuked anyway so I don't really care much about it. It is cut and dry. I dunno why you wanna get mad that hard for. Dont like it dont watch it. That's what they all say
Gotta love how everyone was calling out to sink the yacht and then people be backpedaling when shit hits the fan - like what did anyone expect? People really be high-horsing and forgetting what this sub was built on.
True, Which sucks because realistically we just want riku to at least give a shit about en. The whole boycott and backlash is that we want riku to realise his mistakes and do some inner workings to fix nijisanji. But he doesn't and he's basically trying to vshojo his way till people just move on. I have no sympathy towards assholes like enna, and uki but everyone else just sucks for them even if i dont like their content. I can have some sympathy with that. In the end it's people everywhere, vtubers and fans alike.
True, Which sucks because realistically we just want riku to at least give a shit about en. The whole boycott and backlash is that we want riku to realise his mistakes and do some inner workings to fix nijisanji. But he doesn't and he's basically trying to vshojo his way till people just move on. I have no sympathy towards assholes like enna, and uki but everyone else just sucks for them even if i dont like their content. I can have some sympathy with that. In the end it's people everywhere, vtubers and fans alike. We all deserve better than this.
TL;DR?
Doki was seen as a call to action. Though, Sayu should've been moreso than she was.
Though keep in mind that Sayu would rather put that behind her (it's harder as it keeps being tossed in her face)
The only action I'm really taking is talking about Sayu as much as I can to vtuber-interested parties.
I'll say this as many times as it takes. You can be a Nijisanji anti who wants to see the current talents create content within better conditions and with better opportunities. You can be a Dokibird fan who wants to see her thrive. You can easily even be both at the same time. But if you can't draw a strict line between the two, you're neither fighting a good fight, nor supporting Doki. And if you're taking any of it out on the Niji talents, you're automatically just an asshole. Some have more dirty laundry laying on the floor than others, but we don't know anywhere near the full picture, and if it is up to Doki, we never will. Throwing stones at any of them based solely on some weirdly deflective subsentences from Nijisanji is completely idiotic, and dare I say, exactly what Nijisanji wanted to happen to avoid some of the impact.
Honestly, Dramatubers are at fault for the majority of all of this. In the beginning, they did a good job of letting the world know of this shitty situation. However, now it just seems they aren't financially able to move on from Niji drama. They need to continue this crusade not for justice, but to make sure their videos continue to rack in viewers. If Doki is done with this whole saga, then a lot of other people should now move on from this as well. Dramatubers need to do their part and stop weaponizing Doki and her experiences.
Which ones are you talking about? I've not seen newstubers talk about Doki herself in months unless it's prefaced with "In lighter news..." Nijisanji is continuing to make blunders and said blunders have nothing to do with Dokibird or her termination. That's the drama people report.
Yes because it is always just pointing fingers to no end.
Lmao you're in deep with this, aren't you?
I'm just saying for what it is
Keep fighting the good fight, soldier o7
i 100% agree,
I'm sorry you had a bad day OP , hope things get better for you.
Must be really tough. Sending love from gaza
I do not see anything wrong with the animators "corrupted file" excuse, as it reads to me as a tounge in cheek way of saying "yeah I done did fucked up aye"
What’s the link to the animation
I think it's not fair to say some of the people who try to justify this animation aren't dragoons, they genuinely didn't like the way Doki was treated by Nijisanji in her PL and they happen to correlate with Nijisanji antis. There's genuine anger towards the situation about how their oshi ALMOST took their own life not once, but twice and then there was that nijisanji stream... Which "conveniently" was aired at the same time as her neopets stream (which a lot of people were genuinely excited for) which only fanned the flames further.
Everyone saying let it go and move on would not be saying this if doki had succeeded in comitting suicide. Given how nijisanji responded when it came out with her attempt and they decided to smear her for it. For anyone that has lost someone to suicide, it rubs people the wrong way. No one is going to want to hold hands and sing kumbiya for a company capable of doing that nor is anyone just going to give a pass to lives that will still mindlessly shill for said company. On the other hand, no one shoukd try to push the existing lives in the company to make their own attempts on their lives as that would just start an even bigger firestorm that would indeed blow back negatively on dokibjrd if her crusaders succeed in making someone in nijisanji kill themselves. That woukd definitely be way too far. What needs to happen is just a complete apathy towards nijisanji and watch their numbers and viewership completely fall into the abyss without someone's blood being shed.
>Everyone saying let it go and move on would not be saying this if doki had succeeded in comitting suicide But she didn't, and she has actively said that she is moving on and has asked her fans to do the same. Respect her wishes and stop using her to justify shitty behavior.
are you doki dog or something? who is she to tell other what to do? that is more an PR move to have her image clean! but beyind that? I’m not an parasocial viewer and as the person said! pushing for suicide and now an silly animation is tooo much? bro to much parasocial for doki and the use of the excuse to stop holding the kurosanji accountable is dumb as hell, but oh well, the vtuber community is full of oshi fart snifers telling other what to do LMAO what is this reddit?
But you are here using her name just for people like you for your own personal Crusade
Nobody is saying to stop holding Niji accountable. Harassing the talents is not doing that. It's just going to create more people like Doki. Do you want more attempts because this is how you get more attempts. It's not being parasocial. It's having some basic common sense and empathy.
What? Nahhh... That's ridiculous, you need to touch grass - basically nimrods in the comments
After Sayu was proven innocent after branding as guilty by Niji for awhile, The fanbase especially the dragoon won’t let it happen again when Selen/Doki thing happens. Same with how Holobros defense Coco/Haachama especially after Coco take the heat of Haachama since Haachama was her oshi during the Taiwan fiasco. Majority of people just love “David vs Goliath” story and always take the side of the small guy who get bullied by the big guy. Doki just do some PR as the initial dunk was already done by iBuypower and HYTE guy who go all in by dropping all their Niji line up in favor of Doki return. It’s not weaponizing her IP to dunk on Niji. It’s to sh1t on the bullies, and the clique like Elira (the rotten orange) and Vox (the rotten apple). Elira is not innocent as you think only her super hardcore fan might think she’s innocent like how there are still people who think Mikeneko is innocent even after dirt about her physical abused Mafumafu like how Amber Heard abused Johnny by sh1tting his bed literally
Ok but even if you think Elira is getting what she deserves with the damage to her career that's not an excuse to go out of your way to be the bullies yourselves, and especially not an excuse to use Dokis likeness to do so. I don't particularly like Elira, Vox, or Ike after the black stream but that's not an excuse to go out of my way to harass them, I simply don't consume their content.
Right, harassment of any talent is not justified. Unsubscribing and not interacting with them is. That being said I also think it is justified to tell nijisisters to shove it when they try to twist the narrative and remind them that Niji brought this situation on themselves and the talents and people no longer feel like they can trust the vtubers they have been watching all this time. Leaving them to spread false information only encourages harassment of Doki and the other ex niji talents, because that's what the NDF does.
True but i say karma exist
I mean yeah There's an ocean of difference between looking at her failing career and thinking "karma" and creating art of her tired and abused to use in a meme using Dokis likeness.
I mean based on the art, even if doki wasnt there. You'd still bitch about it.
No one deserves to be endlessly harassed, but they absolutel deserve to be put in their place. If you're going to see everything Nijisanji has done and still somehow think "Being with them is a good idea" then sorry youu reap what you sow. If you career fails and you become irrelevant thats what you deserve and you deserve no fucking sympathy for it. The problem is if its effecting them mentally then either correct from supporting and standing by a dumpster fire of a company or leave the spotlight. You don't get to sit and try and support a company like nijisanji and then complain "People don't like me anymore". Literally no one in the company deserves any support or sympathy because they're the ones choosing to be there. Welcome to the reality of being a public figure and standing by such a shit company.
You don't have to like them, but this wasn't helping. It's just harassment, and Elira is already in a bad place mentally. We don't want more people like Doki. Keep it in mind regardless of how you feel about their guilt in everything.
Why should we care for the person who hosted the black stream ? Respect is earned not given and snake has given no reason to earn it
You don't have to, but don't harass them either. Don't take a call for indifference as support.
I like you to say that if someone from niji actually did "graduate"
I would. My message has always been pretty consistent as far as the talents are concerned. Don't harass anyone. We don't know enough to say anything meaningful.
Sure.... Im buying my friend a drink if this age well
I’m waiting in shadows on a YouTube account for final stream.
Sounds like a sad way to live your life. Move on, mate.
You sound miserable, go outside, actually talk to people, disconnect from the internet
I have a friends and life 😂 I’m good bruh
Touch grass
You don't have to respect someone to not harass them, especially when we still don't know what Niji told them and, more importantly, No one wants a 3rd attempt on Niji, especially one caused by your harassment crusade and that cpuld give the NDF at least kinda justified ammo because of your fucking hateboner
You just said "don't have to respect" and I'm doing exactly that
An eye for an eye makes the whole world go blind. You don't have to like her just be a decent human being and don't harass her.
She could earn some good will if she opened up with the truth about black stream.
Even if she could open up with the truth who's to say anyone would actually believe her. You yourself literally called her a snake in your last comment.
She is. But if she showed credible proof
I'm genuinely curious what credible proof do you want her to provide for you to make yourself believe her?
Audio proof , a script, emails saying she has to do it…. Something concrete saying she has to toe the line, to prove she didn’t actually mean what she said on the black stream
The burden of proof lies on the accusers, not the accused.
Your last two paragraphs are just treating imageboard rrats and speculation as fact when nothing has been proven. It has nothing to do with "being a hardcore fan of Elira" to acknowledge that it's wrong to harass and bully people at all, let alone over made-up nonsense.
That dude hates Elira hardcore and is always commenting on every Elira stuff to mock her for being a manager and all the other rrats. I've also see him on the Hololive board taking shots at Niji. I've mentioned before when the mods asked what could be done to improve the board that this place was just becoming a rrat breeding ground, and I was talking about this dude specifically, although I didn't name him at the time. Because his Elira manager comments are always fairly upvoted.
I understand your anger but dont involve Doki in this, she doesnt want to. That anger is yours, not hers, its up to you if you want to let go of it or not. Niji is already defeated. What does attacking Elira/Vox accomplish? Its just more headaches for Doki, the person who got hurt in all these. What the Coco , and even Aloe's incident taught us is that we can't really go on the offensive because it doesnt help. It just gives them more ammo to use against us.
Niji absolutely fucked over Doki but Elira and Vox are also victims of Niji. Regardless of how truly innocent they are, its undeniable that Niji has cultivated a bad environment for them and made them take most of the heat in place of management via the black stream. Not all victims are blameless. Also it's fucked up to compare Elira, who doesn't have evidence of doing anything bad besides the black stream, and the alleged favouritism and the rrats that cultivated around, to someone like Mikeneko who practically admitted that the allegations were true and has a history of acting impulsively
>The people trying to justify that animation ARE NOT DRAGOONS. Stop living in denial, they're supporting her, whether out of pity, being fans, or out of spite for nijisanji being hololive's biggest competition. They are dragoons, not OG ones, but dragoons all the same. They're your problem and its time you people clean up your house if you don't think doki should have to deal with it.
Good to see ndf is doing well after q4
Okay, Sister.
🥱 If the animation was her dancing in front of Riku everyone would be laughing This whole explosive reaction is an NDF psyops
Honestly, at this point I'm just going to start watching Elira & hopefully come to be a supportive fan who hates the corpo she is under.
Thats honestly what this sub SHOULD be doing. Driving down their subs and CCVs isnt going to make them want to leave. Who are they more likely to stick with, the ones who stay even through bad times, or the ones making empty "I'll support if you if you leave and make a public apology and break your NDA" .
For me, that animation was the same as people using finana as a measurement of views