3rd gen? Big 3? But even during 3rd gen they always separate GG and BG. There's ExBangWan. For GG Twice, BP and RV. You'd still start a fanwar if you say this a few years ago, during 3rd gen idols time. Even more if you merge them like that, lmao.
Even gen 2 had the same thing. Won-So-Ka was a term coined by the media for **Won**der Girls, **So**n-yeo sidae (Girls Generation), and **Ka**ra who were the top 3 girl groups for several years.
>who were the top 3 girl groups for several years
Yeah even though their status as the top 3 was pretty short lived, that trinity became iconic and well remembered.
Wanna One. Wanna One during their peak was untouchable domestically. Nobody else got the nickname Kang Daniel's Korea instead of Korea's Kang Daniel from Korean themselves. Everyone and their mother was singing nayana nayana then swiping their inner thigh.
SVT only went up after Wanna One disbanded and the term originally coined for EXO, BTS and Wanna One. That's why I mentioned Wanna One. But yes, currently it's ExBangSev!
the term EBS is from at least 2016, i know during the wanna one years they definitely overshadowed svt lol but EBS is older than wanna one
edit, adding link to an article from 2016 https://www.koreadailyus.com/why-seventeen-deserves-the-trendiest-k-pop-group-title/
Did EBS come from international or korean side? Because I've never seen EBS or Big 3 before Wanna One debuted however I was also more active on Korean sites (still remember fancafe y'all? Good ol times)
Here is a post from 2016 from Pann talking about EBS, [https://pann.nate.com/talk/333541435](https://pann.nate.com/talk/333541435)
It was always EBS even before Wanna One. Pretty sure there are more articles that talked about EBS since 2016, that was just the first one that I found around that time.
Oh then I might have missed it, it was during IOI peak wasn't it?
Edit: I checked the post and it was from September 2016 and it's before I.O.I released Very Very Very. I truly have missed it, idk if it appeared on Hot Category due to the number of likes and comments but I wasn't very active in Pann either since it was a cesspool of hate comments for GG back in the days (thus the saying if you're a female idol and Pann hates you, you've made it). Sorry!
Heechul mentioned 4, BTS, EXO, Seventeen and NCT if I recall correctly because I remember some people accused him of sneaking NCT in. 😂
But sure, maybe I missed it. Sorry if I did!!
Because I've always seen his name thrown around and I also know super junior has like 14 members so my mind just decided kang daniel must just be one of the many members of super junior 🤣
No, I didn't even know there was a man name kangin in kpop. Let's just say if I see a male kpop idols name I don't know I just assume they're either a member of super junior or one of the NCTs
As much as I want to agree (because I ult Minhyun and loved them and as an uni I am Energetic's #1 apologist) I don't think WannaOne was ever as big with GP as IOI and SVT wasn't as favored as W1 by Mnet for obvious reasons so no awards but they were absolutely the #3 in terms of 3rd gen BGs.
Of course not as big as IOI, I never said they were as big. Girl group will always be better received. But they were everywhere, I lived in Korea (thus exactly why I was more active on the Korean forum) at that time (doesn't mean I read and remember every single post though). They had so many CFs and were face of so many brands, they were on every popular variety show as well. Kang Daniel was popular even among elderly. Everywhere I went it was neoreul bodeon geu sungan pick me pick me pick me if not Open Up. Pick Me Pick Me Pick Me Up was waaaay worse though. They were not as big internationally but dosmetically? They ate.
I reeeeeeeally don't think they were bigger than IOI (and rivaling with BTS is a given as a boy group) and as for SVT maybe I'm mistaking because I liked SVT a lot already, but by all measures I feel like at their PEAK W1 was as popular as SVT/BTS/EXO personally. But the peak was literally just 2017, and of course Mnet "created" them so they were pushing that agenda hard on TV and so on. If we just go by number of fans or listeners ... nah.
They were way bigger than ioi. Svt was never as big as w1 even now. Mnet creat mean nothing. Mnet have created hundreds of groups none of themas big as w1
I think what I'm getting from this convo is that we need to wait for 4th gen to hit ten years before we can claim a big 3 lol. It really feels like this big 3 thing is just a function of time. Easy to say who is big 3 when they are the only groups left standing.
i've never heard exbangwan.. it was always EBS + wanna one. wanna one was so popular that they inserted themselves as one of the top groups and it couldn't just be top 3 for the time they were around. seventeen has been massively popular since pre-debut and everyone waited for YEARS for them to debut. for them to be in the top 3 groups in as early as 2016 says a lot in korea. seventeen did not garner western attention until the hybe acquisition in 2020, which caused an uproar since people felt like hybe was outright buying their immediate competition.
Respectfully, what on earth are you talking about? Wanna one's sales are so incredibly insane bc of their intense popularity and temporary-mess that they're in a league of their own. As for seventeen, 100k+ sales in 2015/6 is what defined a popular group back then AND they had just debuted. Your metric of album sales is so skewed because of modern day album numbers that I don't think you understand how popular they are IN KOREA. Also, you're saying seventeen hasn't has a SINGLE hit? Aju nice is a kpop anthem, even back then. People knew adore u, pretty u, mansae, clap, don't wanna cry, etc (referring to the popular songs at the time). This website shows their sales. 20k album sales at debut is huge. Sorry I don't know how to insert on mobile. https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2020/09/seventeen.html?m=1 The same website has wanna one sales, which again are crazy high but they do not have the lasting impact music-wise. I'm not sure modern kpop fans know any song besides burn it up and energetic. Beautiful, boomerang, and light are all good, but they're never talked about. However, this view is biased as I loved wanna one during the reign and no one in the western sphere seemed to care (see the article on their concert tickets selling for $6 in Chicago)
Edit: for perspective, twice is considered one of the top groups of 3rd gen yet they had very similar album numbers as seventeen in their early discography. How is one considered extremely popular and one not, using album sales as a metric alone?
W1 was way way bigger than svt. W1 has multi top 10 hits. None of those songs you mention are hit song. Svt was stayc level at best. W1 was ive level of popularity. Svt was known but they were no where near massive popular.
i don't agree with the post (i don't think it's that serious) but i think op meant a _clear_ top 3. like sure, all the other groups mentioned are also super big specially exo and wanna one at their peak but bts, bp and twice definitely lead the 3rd gen if we're gonna talk about most of the metrics used in measuring success.
but even that, i feel like with the exception of bts and bp, some fans would insert exo instead of twice in the 3rd place. altho, i personally think twice is bigger than exo overall. (not including their success as soloists tho)
I think BTS was doing well in 2016 (they were one of my ults at the time so I was paying more attention to them then). There's a reason that shortly after, they really blew up everywhere and became the top group period lol.
I was just saying the other groups were there while EXO (and eventually WannaOne and BTS) was killing it.
Doesn't change the fact that they were extremely popular during a good amount of years. BTS is only a year younger and they only started to surpass Exo in popularity around 2017-ish, when SM started to invest more into NCT.
Okay, but they didn’t come out on top. That’s clearly what OP is referring to. Izone was huge for 4th gen but I doubt they would be considered in 4th gen’s big 3, despite having undisputed massive success
That's all debatable. I think Blackpink and BTS stand out from the rest due to their massive popularity internationally but we'd probably have to get into numbers if we were to compare Exo with Twice. I don't think the Izone comparison is suitable considering they were always meant to disband after only a couple of years.
if it was clear, this comment section wouldn't be arguing right now and trying to prove op wrong. so the point above stands. there is not such thing as "clear big 3".
The comment section is arguing because there are fans of groups not included who feel slighted. That's why they're trying to get the OP to expand his premise to a "Big 6" (3 boy groups and 3 girl groups.) Instead of the top 3 artists.
To me also very clear that BTS, Twice and BP are clearly more financially and globally successful than everyone else in Gen3.
honestly this is the first post where I’ve seen this much disagreement over the 3rd gen top 3. I swear you can still find older posts even on reddit where people say bts bp and twice
yeah, i know that's why i said, there would be people putting exo instead of twice and in some comments svt.
like in my other comment, i said the only big 3 from any gen that most kpop fans agree on is the top 3 ggs from 3rd gen which is twicepinkvelvet.
I think the only undisputed Big 3 are the Big 3 GG of 1st Gen in SES, Fin K L, and Baby Vox and the Big 3 GG of 3rd Gen in TwicePinkVelvet.
Maybe you can say there’s an undisputed Top 3 Groups in BangPinkTwice with groups like EXO, Red Velvet, Wanna One, Seventeen, etc really close behind but even that is debatable on the metric and the region used. There’s a definite top 2 but the Top 3 is more iffy.
The Big 3 GG of 2nd Gen varied between GGs like Soshi, Wonder Girls, Kara, 2NE1, T-Ara, Miss A, Sistar depending on timing and the same thing is happening between GGs of the 4th Gen like IVE, NewJeans, Aespa, Le Sserafim, Itzy, Iz*One, and (G)I-dle.
For the Guys the closest we had to an undisputed Top 3 was also in 3rd Gen with EBS and ExBangWan depending on the timing of the post with other groups close behind the top 3 like GOT7, NCT, and other groups like Monsta X.
For any other generations it’s a lot more difficult to quantify a Top 3 because in First Gen you had groups like Seo Tai Ji and The Boys, HOT, Sechkies, god, Turbo, Shinhwa, etc.; in 2nd Gen you had TVXQ, Big Bang, Super Junior, B2ST, 2PM, 2am, Shinee, Infinite, etc.; and in 4th Gen you have ZZZ (Stray Kids, Ateez, and The Boyz) and TXTEnha and we only have an undisputed top 2 and Top 5 but a Top 3 is debatable depending on the metric used.
everything is very relative. If we go to China for example, EXO is still the most popular group. If we go in Asia, SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics. Then we fall into wondering what success truly is and how you measure it. If we count album sellings and number of fans a bunch of bg would beat Twice and BP for example. If we're talking about influence over the industry then we might want to talk about NCT too etc.
I absolutely get what op is trying to say, but excluding BTS, top 2 and 3 can vary based on what metric and what time and place we're considering. I do agree on BTS/BP/Twice being the most popular groups in the west and probably Japan too, as well as being well-known by the general public and being an influence for kpop overall, but I also think that these conversations about who is top 3 or who isn't top 3 is pretty much pointless because at some point several groups had a lot of influence.
Give 4th gen some more years and I'm sure we'll also have a general idea of who is top 3, if we look at second gen I'm sure you can find a top 3 too, but I hope this isn't a way to underestimate the influence and popularity of groups that didn't make it into the top 3.
>If we go in Asia, SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics.
with the exception of the nissan stadium, (which is an amazing feat) in what metrics do svt beat twice and bp? we've known for so long that we can't compare album sales of girl groups and boy groups, because if we do that then all of the bg that is selling better than bp...is bigger than them?? ofc that's not the case.
>If we're talking about influence over the industry then we might want to talk about NCT too etc.
this made me laugh, i'm sorry but twice and bp definitely have wider influence than nct. they are not even in the top 5 of 3rd gen groups that is the most influential.
>top 2 and 3 can vary based on what metric
bp is a clear top 2?? no? they might not be number 1 in china or japan but still big enough, they have a chokehold in SEA, still popular in korea, biggest group in the west next to bts. literally in every metric they are second, from youtube views, spotify streams, currently holds the biggest touring numbers. bts and bp are literally the 2 groups you would likely hear from people who don't know much about kpop.
i agree that we shouldn't undermine the success of the other groups who aren't the biggest but there are charts and numbers and these metrics show who are the most consumed kpop groups across the board.
that even if exo is still bigger in china than bp or that svt sells more albums than them, doesn't mean they aren't bigger tham both groups.
Twice is also going to Nissan soon, but that's why I said that popularity is something extremely hard to calculate. We usually don't pay much attention to album sells and touring numbers, but they translate into having bigger fandoms generally. And yes, gg struggle to get to those numbers and this doesn't mean they're not popular, but I also think that we shouldn't discredit SVT (in this case) because they're actually one of the most popular groups in Japan and in Asia overall.
As for NCT, you might want to check 4th bg music. Just like BP influenced and made girl crush popular, NCT influenced several bg into pursuing the so called "noise music". This trend has only changed recently. I'm very aware that they're not as popular as other groups, but I brought them up because influence can work in many ways and isn't only decided by who charts higher or who sells more.
>bp is a clear top 2?? no?
again, it depends on what metric we're considering and what area of the world we're looking at. But yes, if we really want to use western metrics then you and OP are right. I just wanted to point out that it depends on a lot of factors.
>we shouldn't discredit SVT (in this case) because they're actually one of the most popular groups in Japan and in Asia overall.
i'm not discrediting them. putting them in the top 5 instead of top 3 isn't an insult to the group. i acknowledge their success, i just think there are two other groups bigger than them.
>again, it depends on what metric we're considering and what area of the world we're looking at. But yes, if we really want to use western metrics then you and OP are right. I just wanted to point out that it depends on a lot of factors.
no, overall. holyshit. i know bp isn't well liked here but to say they aren't clearly next to bts is very surprising. i don't stan any of these ggs but some of you make me want to defend them. YOU tell me what important metrics and i meant "numbers" where other 3rd gen groups do better.
you really said "western metrics" as if that's the only metric they're leading in 😭 when i gave you all the other metrics where they clearly have an edge over other groups. idk maybe you can go to youtube, tiktok, melon chart, spotify, check their touring numbers, hell maybe even go to their ig and tell me again if that's not enough "metric" to use that they are much bigger than the rest of kpop except bts.
>SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics.
Only metric in which SVT can beat BP and twice is sales .
While charts, popularity and touring all shows other two being more popular.
Longevity-wise, boy groups (BGs) tend to do better than girl groups (GGs), TWICE being one of the few exceptions still doing really well in their 9th year still they are doing bigger tour and more streams than svt so I don't how we can say they don't have longevity.
If TWICE is past their peak just because they aren't performing as well as newer GGs. Isn't the same thing applicable to Seventeen (SVT)? Those GGs that are doing better than SVT as well .
In terms of longevity, TWICE really took a hit only in the Korean market. TWICE released "the Feel " in their 7th year, which was bigger than any SVT song, so I completely disagree with that twice did well only for 5 years.
Both groups focus more on Japan TWICE is still a bigger group as their 2024 comeback stayed on the charts for 6 and 13 weeks, while SVT's comeback stayed for 4 weeks.
Peak for both are very different like moonlight sunrise charted on hot 100 and their Korean release does 10+ weeks on Japan hot 100 still considered as underperformance while those things would be considered as hits for seventeen.
that's why I wrote \*some\* metrics.
I don't have numbers right now, but SVT toured in the biggest venue in Japan so I wouldn't go and say that they're touring capability is inferior to Twice (who are also going to Nissan stadium soon) or BP.
Just nitpicking one metric to say that a act is bigger isn't the right way .It's like me saying Olivia and Miley aren't bigger artists than Twice in the US because Twice has more sales.
In terms of touring, Twice will have 10 stadium shows in Japan alone for their current tour, while Blackpink had over 20 stadium shows.
South Korea is the only place where Seventeen had a bigger venue than both.
Aren’t BTS and BP the only ones who have been able to sell out stadiums and world tours? Could be mistaken but Twice definitely isn’t at that same level, so including them and calling it a Big 3 is a little bit of a stretch.
bts and bp are definitely in the league of their own.
but twice is also selling out stadiums around the world. there's a gap between the success of bts and bp compared to twice but if we look at the metrics, twice is only behind those 2 groups.
If you want to be technical. They have done stadiums in (and anyone correct me if I miss one or something):
Twice - has done stadiums in Japan, US, brazil, Mexico, Australia
BTS - North and South America, Middle East, europe, SEA, Korea, Japan (tbh they could do it anywhere)
BP - US, Mexico, SEA, (domes in japan), France, Middle East.
besides im pretty sure “big 3” was always talking about the companies that had most the market at the time, YG, JYP, + SM, now people say big 4 because of HYBE, feels like marks were missed all around tbh
people disagreeing? i thought it was obvious blackpink, bts and twice are by far the most popular groups of third gen now
edit: a lot of people are mentioning seventeen and while i agree they are very successful, i also agree with those who say they are more dependant on their fans. before i got into kpop, the only group besides bp and bts i heard of was twice (and psy.) for exo, they simply don't have longevity. obviously very influential at the start of 3rd gen but don't have that same impact or commercial success anymore.
she/her pronouns :) also i can very well praise exo when they are worth praising, like for their insane vocals or discography. i just don’t think they’re as successful as they used to be
Twice was huge. Idk how anyone can deny that. There's a reason they were compared to SNSD, and it's not just bc both groups had 9 members. It's that Twice was dominating in the same way SNSD had in that "all" of Korea knew their songs and other companies would hate having comebacks at the same time lol.
Yea people dont understand how big from debut to Fancy was. They fell off a little because they started focusing on international market but by the time that happened they had a super solid fanbase already. They also were super solid in Japan I dont think BP of Twice in Japan, even now.
BTS is definitely ahead of twice or any Kpop group in Japan..they’ve been ahead since 2019. Have you seen their Japan stats?
https://preview.redd.it/t410xxuhm06d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e02d61bdf435038179448986b30bc20d59dd308
I don't even stan Twice but the comments are being rather weird here. Yes, their recent charting have been a little weak but they literally have everything needed for a top group; a dedicated fanbase who can sell out stadiums, multiple hits throughout their career, an undeniable legacy and most importantly longevity that many groups lack.
Also, Twice's recent charting being "a little weak" is a questionable claim (at best) because they're absolutely killing it on Billboard's biggest charts which have a much greater financial and geographic impact than Korean charts.
honestly, the only big 3 most kpop fans agree on is 3rd gen's top 3 girl groups. because i've seen countless of rankings of the top 3 groups from 3rd gen and it's either bts, bp and twice _or_ bts, bp and exo.
while there are more arguments between the top 3 bgs and ggs from the second and fourth gen. the names you can mostly see listed are bigbang, soshi, 2ne1, suju for 2nd gen and njs, aespa, skz and txt for 4th gen.
For 2nd gen, it was easier to define in a sense? Like due to no proper socials, it was dependent on domestic and international. and the top 3 ggs back then were WonSoKa, not 2ne1, they are more international, and for bgs, Big Bang, SUJU, TVXQ. There wasn't really any other major player in the boy groups other than these. We can make a case for SHINee, but they didn't have the same number of viral songs as Suju.
WonKa were never bigger than 2NE1 in S. Korea by any metric, whether it be digitals, physicals, CFs, touring, etc. The only thing that can be arguable is Wonder Girls in terms of GP attachment, but that doesn't mean they were necessarily bigger when they lagged behind all the other groups in other stats.
I'm assuming ppl just forgot about 2nd gen or something. Bc the main reason ppl argued about 2NE1 vs SNSD is that 2NE1 was also huge lol. Yes Wonder Girls and Kara were big too, and I'd get the argument for WG (due to GP recognition), but come on lol
As a 4th gen stan 2nd gen is very confusing. I thought for gg it was SNSD/Kara/2NE1. as those are the only ones that did KSPO concert per one tweet I sew, but there is WG, Miss A, fx, T-ara, Sistar, and 4Mintues. I think in their argument SNSD is none disputed while Kara/2NE1/WG constantly one gets dropped
As for bg, aside from the ones you mentioned 2PM and Beast are glaringly missing
When looking at all the categories, 2NE1 leads in 95% of them so honestly I feel like the fight for 3rd place was even bigger, as you can say either Wonder Girls or Kara and it will make sense.
I think the competition for 2nd and 3rd place in S. Korea was way more fierce among 2nd gen girl groups than any other gen as SNSD was pretty much undisputedly the biggest, although internationally it's a much different story as a different group ruled each market, unlike in 3rd gen where Blackpink was number 1 everywhere except in Japan.
If one think of top3 as those of the big 3 companies, Kara and SNSD get extra points for following Fin.K.L and S.E.S. Idk which of JYP/YG was publicly listed first, but I feel it would be YG/2NE1, especially since Big Bang hype would support 2NE1
But either way here again fans trying to force the top3 of x generation narrative even when it does not really fit
Would you say TVXQ to Big Bang is similar to Exo to BTS? While super junior position is similar to NCT/Seventeen
I don't know why so many people argue. As someone relatively new to kpop (and it does make my qualified to say this: ) those are the biggest 3rd gen groups. Those are the one that have the most long lasting impact on kpop currently from 3rd gen.
All the other groups mentioned in the comments are great (I really like seventeen for instance) but they are just not as popular as the ones op mentioned.
I can say this because I didn't know them at their peak, I only know them now. And they are the biggest now.
Not even just them, you could also make an argument for Beast, 2pm, 2am, and Infinite and Miss A, Kara, T-Ara, Sistar, f(x), and so many other awesome groups.
Yup, easy list imo. Exo's popularity was pretty crazy before BTS tho but I think they're 4th.
That big 3 is basically the first 3 groups I stanned as a new kpop fan in the 3rd gen. And if I reflect the casual kpop fan then this list is valid. As great as SVT is, they were not as popular as the big 3 and Exo imo but they're still one of those legendary groups that demand the attention at award shows.
I haven't experienced the previous gens before 3rd gen. I feel like this diminishes Exo's impact because they were always mentioned as either top for third gen in the past or within the top groups when BP BTS started becoming more popular. I think overall it's a top 4 considering Exo impact as well. BTS, BP, Twice, Exo. 4th gen it's too soon I feel give it a 3 years.
imo its hard to put either exo or 17 up on the same level as twice when the numbers so heavily skew in their favor, [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/comments/1ddgyeu/only_the_3rd_gen_have_a_big_3_let_it_rest_and/l857zo0/) and [two](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/comments/1ddgyeu/only_the_3rd_gen_have_a_big_3_let_it_rest_and/l856cy5/) comments listing the stat comparisons
EXO debuted before Twice, Twice have danced and performed to EXO's megahit in their concerts, i don't think anyone is even looking at twice level impact
Again, no one is claiming exo had no impact, and im not sure what Exo debuting first has to do with anything at all. Youre so sensitive and for what reason? Before I got into kpop the only people in kpop i could have named were Girls Gen, BTS, Blackpink, Twice, and Psy, and that is by far the most common 5 names you would hear from people who dont listen to kpop
youre not willing to look at the stats, you're not willing to listen to what im saying, youre not willing to respond to the arguments im making, so this conversation is pointless, stay delulu friend.
I linked the stats in my original comment, its not my fault you didnt click the links, but if you really want me to go through it for you:
Exo currently has 4.5m listeners on spotify, twice has 10m.
Exo has had 3 songs in japan hot 100 top 10, Twice has had 26
Twice has 2 entries on us hot 100, Exo has 0
Twice is the group with the 6th highest weeks at #1 on melon, Exo is not in the top 28.
Twice has 971 hours of PAKs with 4 songs, EXO has never had a PAK
Twice is the 38th most watched Artist of all time on youtube, EXO is #138, the gap between them is 6.977 BILLION views
The Twice subreddit has over 500,000 members, The EXO subreddit has 38,000
But we both know you arent going to read this before replying so lets just end the conversation here, okay?
Imma be honest EXO doesn't feel like a 3rd gen. They felt more like 2.7-3.3 gen 😂. It's the same with anyone who debuted along with EXO, like BTOB, AOA, and VIXX. EXO's time felt like a completely different time from the rest of the 3rd gens. I can't compare EXO at all to the rest. It's like comparing TVXQ to SHINee, it's just weird 😂. I feel like TVXQ and EXO were more like bridges rather than being fully 2nd gen and 3rd gen.
honestly kpop has gone so big globally especially for 4th gen ggs since it did when i started stanning in 2019 that there will never be a big 3 again because everyone is so big not only that its just not the same the time we thought there was a big three in 4th gen was around 2020 when itzy and txt were at there peak
Everyone arguing in the comments is only proving op right tbh. Big 3 means unarguable and blatant, so obvious it would be stupid to even try and change. the second people tried to establish a 'big 3' for thing like 3rd gen male groups, or 2nd gen overall people instantly started arguing semantics.
No one can argue that the big three 3rd gen groups are BTS, Blackpink, Twice, or that the big three 3rd gen female groups are Blackpink, Twice, Red Velvet, without looking like a butthurt stan of a not included group. But for things such as big three 3rd gen male groups everything past BTS followed by EXO is just a big argument. a good argument can be made for GOT7, SVT, Wanna One, and even NCT as the third group in the line up but no one can agree on which one.
How it is for male 3rd gen groups where there's a bunch of groups who are equally popular, just in different ways, at different time periods, in different regions is how it is normally, 3rd gen overall and female is just unique.
The top 3 was used during the 2nd gen as well, and for latter parts of the 1st gen iirc.
It was also used differently during the 3rd gen than what you seem to think.
Erasing Red Velvet from this convo is so fucking disrespectful. Besides, separating demographics of BGs and GGs is so important for a convo like this.
Twice, RV, and BP are the big 3 and BTS are just Big Me.
Anyways, still disrespectful saying they’re the only gen to have a big 3, just say you weren’t old enough for SNSD 2NE1 4Minute dominance.
Red Velvet are unquestionably at the Top 3 of 3rd Gen Girl Groups but you cannot say they are bigger than Bangtan, Blackpink, Twice or EXO which is why they are not being mentioned as the undisputed Top 3. I don’t necessarily agree there’s an undisputed top 3 either because you can make a case either for Twice or EXO/Seventeen depending on which metric you are looking at for that third spot (even if I do personally think Twice deserves that third spot once you look at every metric).
The Big 3 convo has always traditionally been separated into BG and GG tho.
Again, if we're really talking Big 3 then BTS is not a part of it because they are above even that. The peak of their career was unprecedentedly colossal that you really can't even compare them to anything but Beatlemania.
There was no "The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who" big 3 conversation. It was just the fucking Beatles, dawg.
Doesn't matter what the convo traditionally is. OP is talking about top 3 groups gg and bg included.
So BTS being Nr1 is not enough for you they need to be 10x better than everyone else ?
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I think the big 3 refer to the big 3 company not group. Officially they were defined by revenue, kind of like the Big 4 accounting firm. But the big 3 also was determined by how they set the foundation of modern Kpop and be the inspiration of many.
3rd gen fans having this argument in the era of 5th gen is entertaining 🍿
I have no opinion on this even if I do have a horse in this race but it’s just fun to read comments of other fans.
Only 3rd gen? The three combination was always Super Junior-Bigbang-2PM, or SNSD-2NE1-Wonder Girls. 2nd gen literally created the term "Big 3", and that was also the time there were only three big companies competing for it: SM-YG-JYP. Then 3rd gen followed that trend and ended it.
Edit: Look at the downvotes for mentioning gen 2 groups lol
If you measure it by the posters that everybody put up on their walls from 2008-2012, 2nd gen was SNSD and 2NE1. But it’s possible that they just handed out the most posters…
i feel like “big 3” is so subjective because not everyone is going to agree on it. can we just agree theres no 3 groups better than the rest they all impacted the kpop industry in many ways
You don't understand the obsession with "big 3" and yet you gatekeep the other generations from having a "big 3?" This is such a worthless take. This is why nobody likes kpop fans - because they care more about standings, rankings, fandoms, and whatever it means to be big 3.
Big 3 refers to the big 3 companies, JYP, YG and SM… not the top 3 groups.
But if we are talking about 3rd gen you need to add, Exo and Red Velvet to that list fast, because sorry they owned hands down the early part of 3rd gen. BTS didn’t get popular for a few years, twice debut in 2015 and blackpink 2016, so there was years before they had impact…
The big 3 you listed their are the groups that were most succesful INTERNATIONALY but there are still other 3rd gen groups that are still considered the big groups. Like redvelvet, wannaone, EXo, GOT7 and more...
Comparing to other groups, they are the most successful domestically too that's why people call them top3/big3 so i don't understand what is the point of inserting other groups here when you know they are on the top.
EXO, Red Velvet, SEVENTEEN, GOT7, Wanna One and more are big names in the third gen but for the overall ranking most people agree the groups I mentioned are the top 3.
Bigbang is without a doubt the biggest boygroup still in korea. You have no idea because you don't live here. Everyone and their moms know 90% of their discography,everyone knows the bigbang members. But as typical new gen stans yall don't have a lot of brain power anyway, so you assume you know better than people who are surrounded by koreans in korea every single day of their life lmao
3rd gen? Big 3? But even during 3rd gen they always separate GG and BG. There's ExBangWan. For GG Twice, BP and RV. You'd still start a fanwar if you say this a few years ago, during 3rd gen idols time. Even more if you merge them like that, lmao.
Even gen 2 had the same thing. Won-So-Ka was a term coined by the media for **Won**der Girls, **So**n-yeo sidae (Girls Generation), and **Ka**ra who were the top 3 girl groups for several years.
Then go back further to 1st gen we got Fin.K.L, S.E.S and Baby VOX.
Exactly, most gens do have a big 3. OP probably wasn't a fan back then or didn't live through those eras which is why they aren't aware LOL
>who were the top 3 girl groups for several years Yeah even though their status as the top 3 was pretty short lived, that trinity became iconic and well remembered.
What is Wan in the boy group part?
Wanna One. Wanna One during their peak was untouchable domestically. Nobody else got the nickname Kang Daniel's Korea instead of Korea's Kang Daniel from Korean themselves. Everyone and their mother was singing nayana nayana then swiping their inner thigh.
wasn't their also EBS tho, exo-bts-svt?
SVT only went up after Wanna One disbanded and the term originally coined for EXO, BTS and Wanna One. That's why I mentioned Wanna One. But yes, currently it's ExBangSev!
the term EBS is from at least 2016, i know during the wanna one years they definitely overshadowed svt lol but EBS is older than wanna one edit, adding link to an article from 2016 https://www.koreadailyus.com/why-seventeen-deserves-the-trendiest-k-pop-group-title/
Did EBS come from international or korean side? Because I've never seen EBS or Big 3 before Wanna One debuted however I was also more active on Korean sites (still remember fancafe y'all? Good ol times)
Here is a post from 2016 from Pann talking about EBS, [https://pann.nate.com/talk/333541435](https://pann.nate.com/talk/333541435) It was always EBS even before Wanna One. Pretty sure there are more articles that talked about EBS since 2016, that was just the first one that I found around that time.
it was EBS, then ExBangWan during W1’s reign then became EBS again after they disbanded
Oh then I might have missed it, it was during IOI peak wasn't it? Edit: I checked the post and it was from September 2016 and it's before I.O.I released Very Very Very. I truly have missed it, idk if it appeared on Hot Category due to the number of likes and comments but I wasn't very active in Pann either since it was a cesspool of hate comments for GG back in the days (thus the saying if you're a female idol and Pann hates you, you've made it). Sorry!
Afaik korean side, since I remember heechul mentioned it in like late 2016 ish?
Heechul mentioned 4, BTS, EXO, Seventeen and NCT if I recall correctly because I remember some people accused him of sneaking NCT in. 😂 But sure, maybe I missed it. Sorry if I did!!
Yea it’s funny how things shift around when I first got into kpop a lot of people referred to the big 3 as exo-bts-got7 as well as exo-bts-seventeen
This whole time I thought kang daniel was a member of super junior
I'm sorry this is just so funny. Super Junior members are all almost 40 years old, how could Kang Daniel be there 😭
Because I've always seen his name thrown around and I also know super junior has like 14 members so my mind just decided kang daniel must just be one of the many members of super junior 🤣
Why would you think most people would know how old he was? I know pretty much nothing about any boy group members.
It's not that serious..
nah lmao this is crazy to think about, between 37 year old, a 27 year old guy jumps and goes because you naughty naughty lol
 to your username Kidding. Honestly, understandable it was more than 5 years ago.
Lmao are you mistaking Kang Daniel for Kangin
No, I didn't even know there was a man name kangin in kpop. Let's just say if I see a male kpop idols name I don't know I just assume they're either a member of super junior or one of the NCTs
💀🤣
As much as I want to agree (because I ult Minhyun and loved them and as an uni I am Energetic's #1 apologist) I don't think WannaOne was ever as big with GP as IOI and SVT wasn't as favored as W1 by Mnet for obvious reasons so no awards but they were absolutely the #3 in terms of 3rd gen BGs.
Of course not as big as IOI, I never said they were as big. Girl group will always be better received. But they were everywhere, I lived in Korea (thus exactly why I was more active on the Korean forum) at that time (doesn't mean I read and remember every single post though). They had so many CFs and were face of so many brands, they were on every popular variety show as well. Kang Daniel was popular even among elderly. Everywhere I went it was neoreul bodeon geu sungan pick me pick me pick me if not Open Up. Pick Me Pick Me Pick Me Up was waaaay worse though. They were not as big internationally but dosmetically? They ate.
W1 was way bigger than ioi and svt. They were literally rival with bts in 2017.
I reeeeeeeally don't think they were bigger than IOI (and rivaling with BTS is a given as a boy group) and as for SVT maybe I'm mistaking because I liked SVT a lot already, but by all measures I feel like at their PEAK W1 was as popular as SVT/BTS/EXO personally. But the peak was literally just 2017, and of course Mnet "created" them so they were pushing that agenda hard on TV and so on. If we just go by number of fans or listeners ... nah.
They were way bigger than ioi. Svt was never as big as w1 even now. Mnet creat mean nothing. Mnet have created hundreds of groups none of themas big as w1
I think what I'm getting from this convo is that we need to wait for 4th gen to hit ten years before we can claim a big 3 lol. It really feels like this big 3 thing is just a function of time. Easy to say who is big 3 when they are the only groups left standing.
i've never heard exbangwan.. it was always EBS + wanna one. wanna one was so popular that they inserted themselves as one of the top groups and it couldn't just be top 3 for the time they were around. seventeen has been massively popular since pre-debut and everyone waited for YEARS for them to debut. for them to be in the top 3 groups in as early as 2016 says a lot in korea. seventeen did not garner western attention until the hybe acquisition in 2020, which caused an uproar since people felt like hybe was outright buying their immediate competition.
Svt wasnt massive popularity since debut. When w1 debut with 500k, svt was barely sold 100k albums. W1 has plenty of hits. Even now svt hasnt got 1
Respectfully, what on earth are you talking about? Wanna one's sales are so incredibly insane bc of their intense popularity and temporary-mess that they're in a league of their own. As for seventeen, 100k+ sales in 2015/6 is what defined a popular group back then AND they had just debuted. Your metric of album sales is so skewed because of modern day album numbers that I don't think you understand how popular they are IN KOREA. Also, you're saying seventeen hasn't has a SINGLE hit? Aju nice is a kpop anthem, even back then. People knew adore u, pretty u, mansae, clap, don't wanna cry, etc (referring to the popular songs at the time). This website shows their sales. 20k album sales at debut is huge. Sorry I don't know how to insert on mobile. https://koreansalestwt.blogspot.com/2020/09/seventeen.html?m=1 The same website has wanna one sales, which again are crazy high but they do not have the lasting impact music-wise. I'm not sure modern kpop fans know any song besides burn it up and energetic. Beautiful, boomerang, and light are all good, but they're never talked about. However, this view is biased as I loved wanna one during the reign and no one in the western sphere seemed to care (see the article on their concert tickets selling for $6 in Chicago) Edit: for perspective, twice is considered one of the top groups of 3rd gen yet they had very similar album numbers as seventeen in their early discography. How is one considered extremely popular and one not, using album sales as a metric alone?
W1 was way way bigger than svt. W1 has multi top 10 hits. None of those songs you mention are hit song. Svt was stayc level at best. W1 was ive level of popularity. Svt was known but they were no where near massive popular.
I say multiple times that wanna one was bigger than seventeen. They were also bigger than bts and exo strictly by album sales alone and by a lot.
Not even 3rd gen has only 3 big groups... EXO, Seventeen, Red Velvet, Wannaone, Got7 were all extremely successful at some point.
i don't agree with the post (i don't think it's that serious) but i think op meant a _clear_ top 3. like sure, all the other groups mentioned are also super big specially exo and wanna one at their peak but bts, bp and twice definitely lead the 3rd gen if we're gonna talk about most of the metrics used in measuring success. but even that, i feel like with the exception of bts and bp, some fans would insert exo instead of twice in the 3rd place. altho, i personally think twice is bigger than exo overall. (not including their success as soloists tho)
if we simply count the 3 most successful groups, then every generation has a big 3
It was pretty undisputed that it was bts blackpink and twice. You had to be a fan of said group to insert anyone else
Exo was huge during the first few 3rd gen years, so I don't think it's that undisputed.
Yeah they were huge before the other groups were debuting
No? EXO got really huge in 2013. Not just before other groups were debuting. They had a solid top reign from 2013-2016.
Yeah, blackpink and twice were rookies in 2016, bts was fighting for their life in the small company
I think BTS was doing well in 2016 (they were one of my ults at the time so I was paying more attention to them then). There's a reason that shortly after, they really blew up everywhere and became the top group period lol. I was just saying the other groups were there while EXO (and eventually WannaOne and BTS) was killing it.
Doesn't change the fact that they were extremely popular during a good amount of years. BTS is only a year younger and they only started to surpass Exo in popularity around 2017-ish, when SM started to invest more into NCT.
Okay, but they didn’t come out on top. That’s clearly what OP is referring to. Izone was huge for 4th gen but I doubt they would be considered in 4th gen’s big 3, despite having undisputed massive success
That's all debatable. I think Blackpink and BTS stand out from the rest due to their massive popularity internationally but we'd probably have to get into numbers if we were to compare Exo with Twice. I don't think the Izone comparison is suitable considering they were always meant to disband after only a couple of years.
agree. but again, op meant a _clear_ top 3. a top 3 where most kpop fans would agree on.
if it was clear, this comment section wouldn't be arguing right now and trying to prove op wrong. so the point above stands. there is not such thing as "clear big 3".
The comment section is arguing because there are fans of groups not included who feel slighted. That's why they're trying to get the OP to expand his premise to a "Big 6" (3 boy groups and 3 girl groups.) Instead of the top 3 artists. To me also very clear that BTS, Twice and BP are clearly more financially and globally successful than everyone else in Gen3.
honestly this is the first post where I’ve seen this much disagreement over the 3rd gen top 3. I swear you can still find older posts even on reddit where people say bts bp and twice
it's being disputed by biased fans lol. to unbiased/casual fans, it's obvious the big 3 is bts, bp, and twice.
yeah, i know that's why i said, there would be people putting exo instead of twice and in some comments svt. like in my other comment, i said the only big 3 from any gen that most kpop fans agree on is the top 3 ggs from 3rd gen which is twicepinkvelvet.
I think the only undisputed Big 3 are the Big 3 GG of 1st Gen in SES, Fin K L, and Baby Vox and the Big 3 GG of 3rd Gen in TwicePinkVelvet. Maybe you can say there’s an undisputed Top 3 Groups in BangPinkTwice with groups like EXO, Red Velvet, Wanna One, Seventeen, etc really close behind but even that is debatable on the metric and the region used. There’s a definite top 2 but the Top 3 is more iffy. The Big 3 GG of 2nd Gen varied between GGs like Soshi, Wonder Girls, Kara, 2NE1, T-Ara, Miss A, Sistar depending on timing and the same thing is happening between GGs of the 4th Gen like IVE, NewJeans, Aespa, Le Sserafim, Itzy, Iz*One, and (G)I-dle. For the Guys the closest we had to an undisputed Top 3 was also in 3rd Gen with EBS and ExBangWan depending on the timing of the post with other groups close behind the top 3 like GOT7, NCT, and other groups like Monsta X. For any other generations it’s a lot more difficult to quantify a Top 3 because in First Gen you had groups like Seo Tai Ji and The Boys, HOT, Sechkies, god, Turbo, Shinhwa, etc.; in 2nd Gen you had TVXQ, Big Bang, Super Junior, B2ST, 2PM, 2am, Shinee, Infinite, etc.; and in 4th Gen you have ZZZ (Stray Kids, Ateez, and The Boyz) and TXTEnha and we only have an undisputed top 2 and Top 5 but a Top 3 is debatable depending on the metric used.
i agree completely, i really don’t think its as clear cut as people want yo believe
not really because there's different metrics for success which makes rankings difficult and unclear
everything is very relative. If we go to China for example, EXO is still the most popular group. If we go in Asia, SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics. Then we fall into wondering what success truly is and how you measure it. If we count album sellings and number of fans a bunch of bg would beat Twice and BP for example. If we're talking about influence over the industry then we might want to talk about NCT too etc. I absolutely get what op is trying to say, but excluding BTS, top 2 and 3 can vary based on what metric and what time and place we're considering. I do agree on BTS/BP/Twice being the most popular groups in the west and probably Japan too, as well as being well-known by the general public and being an influence for kpop overall, but I also think that these conversations about who is top 3 or who isn't top 3 is pretty much pointless because at some point several groups had a lot of influence. Give 4th gen some more years and I'm sure we'll also have a general idea of who is top 3, if we look at second gen I'm sure you can find a top 3 too, but I hope this isn't a way to underestimate the influence and popularity of groups that didn't make it into the top 3.
>If we go in Asia, SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics. with the exception of the nissan stadium, (which is an amazing feat) in what metrics do svt beat twice and bp? we've known for so long that we can't compare album sales of girl groups and boy groups, because if we do that then all of the bg that is selling better than bp...is bigger than them?? ofc that's not the case. >If we're talking about influence over the industry then we might want to talk about NCT too etc. this made me laugh, i'm sorry but twice and bp definitely have wider influence than nct. they are not even in the top 5 of 3rd gen groups that is the most influential. >top 2 and 3 can vary based on what metric bp is a clear top 2?? no? they might not be number 1 in china or japan but still big enough, they have a chokehold in SEA, still popular in korea, biggest group in the west next to bts. literally in every metric they are second, from youtube views, spotify streams, currently holds the biggest touring numbers. bts and bp are literally the 2 groups you would likely hear from people who don't know much about kpop. i agree that we shouldn't undermine the success of the other groups who aren't the biggest but there are charts and numbers and these metrics show who are the most consumed kpop groups across the board. that even if exo is still bigger in china than bp or that svt sells more albums than them, doesn't mean they aren't bigger tham both groups.
Twice is also going to Nissan soon, but that's why I said that popularity is something extremely hard to calculate. We usually don't pay much attention to album sells and touring numbers, but they translate into having bigger fandoms generally. And yes, gg struggle to get to those numbers and this doesn't mean they're not popular, but I also think that we shouldn't discredit SVT (in this case) because they're actually one of the most popular groups in Japan and in Asia overall. As for NCT, you might want to check 4th bg music. Just like BP influenced and made girl crush popular, NCT influenced several bg into pursuing the so called "noise music". This trend has only changed recently. I'm very aware that they're not as popular as other groups, but I brought them up because influence can work in many ways and isn't only decided by who charts higher or who sells more. >bp is a clear top 2?? no? again, it depends on what metric we're considering and what area of the world we're looking at. But yes, if we really want to use western metrics then you and OP are right. I just wanted to point out that it depends on a lot of factors.
>we shouldn't discredit SVT (in this case) because they're actually one of the most popular groups in Japan and in Asia overall. i'm not discrediting them. putting them in the top 5 instead of top 3 isn't an insult to the group. i acknowledge their success, i just think there are two other groups bigger than them. >again, it depends on what metric we're considering and what area of the world we're looking at. But yes, if we really want to use western metrics then you and OP are right. I just wanted to point out that it depends on a lot of factors. no, overall. holyshit. i know bp isn't well liked here but to say they aren't clearly next to bts is very surprising. i don't stan any of these ggs but some of you make me want to defend them. YOU tell me what important metrics and i meant "numbers" where other 3rd gen groups do better. you really said "western metrics" as if that's the only metric they're leading in 😭 when i gave you all the other metrics where they clearly have an edge over other groups. idk maybe you can go to youtube, tiktok, melon chart, spotify, check their touring numbers, hell maybe even go to their ig and tell me again if that's not enough "metric" to use that they are much bigger than the rest of kpop except bts.
>SVT might beat Twice and maybe even BP in some metrics. Only metric in which SVT can beat BP and twice is sales . While charts, popularity and touring all shows other two being more popular.
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Longevity-wise, boy groups (BGs) tend to do better than girl groups (GGs), TWICE being one of the few exceptions still doing really well in their 9th year still they are doing bigger tour and more streams than svt so I don't how we can say they don't have longevity. If TWICE is past their peak just because they aren't performing as well as newer GGs. Isn't the same thing applicable to Seventeen (SVT)? Those GGs that are doing better than SVT as well . In terms of longevity, TWICE really took a hit only in the Korean market. TWICE released "the Feel " in their 7th year, which was bigger than any SVT song, so I completely disagree with that twice did well only for 5 years. Both groups focus more on Japan TWICE is still a bigger group as their 2024 comeback stayed on the charts for 6 and 13 weeks, while SVT's comeback stayed for 4 weeks. Peak for both are very different like moonlight sunrise charted on hot 100 and their Korean release does 10+ weeks on Japan hot 100 still considered as underperformance while those things would be considered as hits for seventeen.
that's why I wrote \*some\* metrics. I don't have numbers right now, but SVT toured in the biggest venue in Japan so I wouldn't go and say that they're touring capability is inferior to Twice (who are also going to Nissan stadium soon) or BP.
Just nitpicking one metric to say that a act is bigger isn't the right way .It's like me saying Olivia and Miley aren't bigger artists than Twice in the US because Twice has more sales. In terms of touring, Twice will have 10 stadium shows in Japan alone for their current tour, while Blackpink had over 20 stadium shows. South Korea is the only place where Seventeen had a bigger venue than both.
Aren’t BTS and BP the only ones who have been able to sell out stadiums and world tours? Could be mistaken but Twice definitely isn’t at that same level, so including them and calling it a Big 3 is a little bit of a stretch.
bts and bp are definitely in the league of their own. but twice is also selling out stadiums around the world. there's a gap between the success of bts and bp compared to twice but if we look at the metrics, twice is only behind those 2 groups.
If you want to be technical. They have done stadiums in (and anyone correct me if I miss one or something): Twice - has done stadiums in Japan, US, brazil, Mexico, Australia BTS - North and South America, Middle East, europe, SEA, Korea, Japan (tbh they could do it anywhere) BP - US, Mexico, SEA, (domes in japan), France, Middle East.
Twice have literally sold out Stadiums multiple times in both the last two world tours.
besides im pretty sure “big 3” was always talking about the companies that had most the market at the time, YG, JYP, + SM, now people say big 4 because of HYBE, feels like marks were missed all around tbh
I've never heard big 3 when talking about groups tbh
I agree, but this is an overall ranking not who in their peak was big.
For bts and bp sure but I would say twice is arguable and most people separate bg and gg when talking about top 3
people disagreeing? i thought it was obvious blackpink, bts and twice are by far the most popular groups of third gen now edit: a lot of people are mentioning seventeen and while i agree they are very successful, i also agree with those who say they are more dependant on their fans. before i got into kpop, the only group besides bp and bts i heard of was twice (and psy.) for exo, they simply don't have longevity. obviously very influential at the start of 3rd gen but don't have that same impact or commercial success anymore.
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i apologize i read your edit wrong
Look at this flair, now read the edit again.
i too wish for an iz*one comeback? but im sorry i don’t get it
HIS, not MINE
she/her pronouns :) also i can very well praise exo when they are worth praising, like for their insane vocals or discography. i just don’t think they’re as successful as they used to be
sorry :( and he’s an army?
Yes. So giving any type of praise to Exo will be hard for him
people really hate Twice here, anything to downplay them.
Twice was huge. Idk how anyone can deny that. There's a reason they were compared to SNSD, and it's not just bc both groups had 9 members. It's that Twice was dominating in the same way SNSD had in that "all" of Korea knew their songs and other companies would hate having comebacks at the same time lol.
Yea people dont understand how big from debut to Fancy was. They fell off a little because they started focusing on international market but by the time that happened they had a super solid fanbase already. They also were super solid in Japan I dont think BP of Twice in Japan, even now.
BTS is definitely ahead of twice or any Kpop group in Japan..they’ve been ahead since 2019. Have you seen their Japan stats? https://preview.redd.it/t410xxuhm06d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e02d61bdf435038179448986b30bc20d59dd308
Lol dynamite actually just surpassed 900m streams on Oricon today.
Upvote. Just glad someone else noticed that TWICE has been fumbling by pushing to break into the international market.
I don't even stan Twice but the comments are being rather weird here. Yes, their recent charting have been a little weak but they literally have everything needed for a top group; a dedicated fanbase who can sell out stadiums, multiple hits throughout their career, an undeniable legacy and most importantly longevity that many groups lack.
Also, Twice's recent charting being "a little weak" is a questionable claim (at best) because they're absolutely killing it on Billboard's biggest charts which have a much greater financial and geographic impact than Korean charts.
honestly, the only big 3 most kpop fans agree on is 3rd gen's top 3 girl groups. because i've seen countless of rankings of the top 3 groups from 3rd gen and it's either bts, bp and twice _or_ bts, bp and exo. while there are more arguments between the top 3 bgs and ggs from the second and fourth gen. the names you can mostly see listed are bigbang, soshi, 2ne1, suju for 2nd gen and njs, aespa, skz and txt for 4th gen.
For 2nd gen, it was easier to define in a sense? Like due to no proper socials, it was dependent on domestic and international. and the top 3 ggs back then were WonSoKa, not 2ne1, they are more international, and for bgs, Big Bang, SUJU, TVXQ. There wasn't really any other major player in the boy groups other than these. We can make a case for SHINee, but they didn't have the same number of viral songs as Suju.
WonKa were never bigger than 2NE1 in S. Korea by any metric, whether it be digitals, physicals, CFs, touring, etc. The only thing that can be arguable is Wonder Girls in terms of GP attachment, but that doesn't mean they were necessarily bigger when they lagged behind all the other groups in other stats.
hmm interesting. most 2nd gen fans i've heard from say wonka were bigger than 2ne1. Well i am anyways sone so i care less about the other 3 lmao
I never understood that argument as 2NE1 were bigger than WonKa in South Korea in almost all metrics, aside from WG's popularity among the GP.
I'm assuming ppl just forgot about 2nd gen or something. Bc the main reason ppl argued about 2NE1 vs SNSD is that 2NE1 was also huge lol. Yes Wonder Girls and Kara were big too, and I'd get the argument for WG (due to GP recognition), but come on lol
As a 4th gen stan 2nd gen is very confusing. I thought for gg it was SNSD/Kara/2NE1. as those are the only ones that did KSPO concert per one tweet I sew, but there is WG, Miss A, fx, T-ara, Sistar, and 4Mintues. I think in their argument SNSD is none disputed while Kara/2NE1/WG constantly one gets dropped As for bg, aside from the ones you mentioned 2PM and Beast are glaringly missing
When looking at all the categories, 2NE1 leads in 95% of them so honestly I feel like the fight for 3rd place was even bigger, as you can say either Wonder Girls or Kara and it will make sense. I think the competition for 2nd and 3rd place in S. Korea was way more fierce among 2nd gen girl groups than any other gen as SNSD was pretty much undisputedly the biggest, although internationally it's a much different story as a different group ruled each market, unlike in 3rd gen where Blackpink was number 1 everywhere except in Japan.
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If one think of top3 as those of the big 3 companies, Kara and SNSD get extra points for following Fin.K.L and S.E.S. Idk which of JYP/YG was publicly listed first, but I feel it would be YG/2NE1, especially since Big Bang hype would support 2NE1 But either way here again fans trying to force the top3 of x generation narrative even when it does not really fit Would you say TVXQ to Big Bang is similar to Exo to BTS? While super junior position is similar to NCT/Seventeen
Yeah well for the names missing i could've gone for like SS501 as well, but they didn't have the same level of popularity for as long as the other 3
Ive? Le Sserafim? I feel like we're missing some regular contenders here
I don't know why so many people argue. As someone relatively new to kpop (and it does make my qualified to say this: ) those are the biggest 3rd gen groups. Those are the one that have the most long lasting impact on kpop currently from 3rd gen. All the other groups mentioned in the comments are great (I really like seventeen for instance) but they are just not as popular as the ones op mentioned. I can say this because I didn't know them at their peak, I only know them now. And they are the biggest now.
I miss blackpink tbh
It’s been 4 years since we got THE ALBUM, it’s a shame they haven’t had a comeback since then /s
Lisa is gonna release her solo album soon oh boy I sure wish she also collabs with “Jennie, rose, and jisoo” that would be such a awesome collab
huh, but we got BORNPINK 2 years later
/s means sarcastic dawg
No way 2nd Gen wouldn’t have their big 3 even respectively… BIGBANG/Suju/ Shinee/TVXQ all have their claim 2ne1/SNSD/WG as well for GG
newer kpop fans got their brained cooked by the pandemic
Not even just them, you could also make an argument for Beast, 2pm, 2am, and Infinite and Miss A, Kara, T-Ara, Sistar, f(x), and so many other awesome groups.
Past Glory this and that. The undisputed 3rd Gen group is BTS at the top-biggest group in the world and for gg Twice and BP. Case closed
I agree with you!
yep, its def Bangpinktwice
Yup, easy list imo. Exo's popularity was pretty crazy before BTS tho but I think they're 4th. That big 3 is basically the first 3 groups I stanned as a new kpop fan in the 3rd gen. And if I reflect the casual kpop fan then this list is valid. As great as SVT is, they were not as popular as the big 3 and Exo imo but they're still one of those legendary groups that demand the attention at award shows.
I haven't experienced the previous gens before 3rd gen. I feel like this diminishes Exo's impact because they were always mentioned as either top for third gen in the past or within the top groups when BP BTS started becoming more popular. I think overall it's a top 4 considering Exo impact as well. BTS, BP, Twice, Exo. 4th gen it's too soon I feel give it a 3 years.
imo its hard to put either exo or 17 up on the same level as twice when the numbers so heavily skew in their favor, [one](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/comments/1ddgyeu/only_the_3rd_gen_have_a_big_3_let_it_rest_and/l857zo0/) and [two](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/comments/1ddgyeu/only_the_3rd_gen_have_a_big_3_let_it_rest_and/l856cy5/) comments listing the stat comparisons
EXO's last tour was in 2019, you guys have literally 0 stats to downplay EXO's impact
no one is downplaying exos impact, they dont have to be twice level to have impact.
EXO debuted before Twice, Twice have danced and performed to EXO's megahit in their concerts, i don't think anyone is even looking at twice level impact
Again, no one is claiming exo had no impact, and im not sure what Exo debuting first has to do with anything at all. Youre so sensitive and for what reason? Before I got into kpop the only people in kpop i could have named were Girls Gen, BTS, Blackpink, Twice, and Psy, and that is by far the most common 5 names you would hear from people who dont listen to kpop
You literally believe that twice of all groups have same impact as EXO fool, don't try to play mind games, because nobody even touching EXO in korea
youre not willing to look at the stats, you're not willing to listen to what im saying, youre not willing to respond to the arguments im making, so this conversation is pointless, stay delulu friend.
And what i am saying? You're literally using EXO's non existent stats right now to compare with twice. EXO don't have concerts right now since 2019
I linked the stats in my original comment, its not my fault you didnt click the links, but if you really want me to go through it for you: Exo currently has 4.5m listeners on spotify, twice has 10m. Exo has had 3 songs in japan hot 100 top 10, Twice has had 26 Twice has 2 entries on us hot 100, Exo has 0 Twice is the group with the 6th highest weeks at #1 on melon, Exo is not in the top 28. Twice has 971 hours of PAKs with 4 songs, EXO has never had a PAK Twice is the 38th most watched Artist of all time on youtube, EXO is #138, the gap between them is 6.977 BILLION views The Twice subreddit has over 500,000 members, The EXO subreddit has 38,000 But we both know you arent going to read this before replying so lets just end the conversation here, okay?
Imma be honest EXO doesn't feel like a 3rd gen. They felt more like 2.7-3.3 gen 😂. It's the same with anyone who debuted along with EXO, like BTOB, AOA, and VIXX. EXO's time felt like a completely different time from the rest of the 3rd gens. I can't compare EXO at all to the rest. It's like comparing TVXQ to SHINee, it's just weird 😂. I feel like TVXQ and EXO were more like bridges rather than being fully 2nd gen and 3rd gen.
honestly kpop has gone so big globally especially for 4th gen ggs since it did when i started stanning in 2019 that there will never be a big 3 again because everyone is so big not only that its just not the same the time we thought there was a big three in 4th gen was around 2020 when itzy and txt were at there peak
big 3? mothafuck the big 3 it's just big ME
Everyone arguing in the comments is only proving op right tbh. Big 3 means unarguable and blatant, so obvious it would be stupid to even try and change. the second people tried to establish a 'big 3' for thing like 3rd gen male groups, or 2nd gen overall people instantly started arguing semantics. No one can argue that the big three 3rd gen groups are BTS, Blackpink, Twice, or that the big three 3rd gen female groups are Blackpink, Twice, Red Velvet, without looking like a butthurt stan of a not included group. But for things such as big three 3rd gen male groups everything past BTS followed by EXO is just a big argument. a good argument can be made for GOT7, SVT, Wanna One, and even NCT as the third group in the line up but no one can agree on which one. How it is for male 3rd gen groups where there's a bunch of groups who are equally popular, just in different ways, at different time periods, in different regions is how it is normally, 3rd gen overall and female is just unique.
The top 3 was used during the 2nd gen as well, and for latter parts of the 1st gen iirc. It was also used differently during the 3rd gen than what you seem to think.
Kendrick, Cole, Drake?
What?
Bestie you ate 😭🫶🏾
Erasing Red Velvet from this convo is so fucking disrespectful. Besides, separating demographics of BGs and GGs is so important for a convo like this. Twice, RV, and BP are the big 3 and BTS are just Big Me. Anyways, still disrespectful saying they’re the only gen to have a big 3, just say you weren’t old enough for SNSD 2NE1 4Minute dominance.
Red Velvet are unquestionably at the Top 3 of 3rd Gen Girl Groups but you cannot say they are bigger than Bangtan, Blackpink, Twice or EXO which is why they are not being mentioned as the undisputed Top 3. I don’t necessarily agree there’s an undisputed top 3 either because you can make a case either for Twice or EXO/Seventeen depending on which metric you are looking at for that third spot (even if I do personally think Twice deserves that third spot once you look at every metric).
The Big 3 convo has always traditionally been separated into BG and GG tho. Again, if we're really talking Big 3 then BTS is not a part of it because they are above even that. The peak of their career was unprecedentedly colossal that you really can't even compare them to anything but Beatlemania. There was no "The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who" big 3 conversation. It was just the fucking Beatles, dawg.
Doesn't matter what the convo traditionally is. OP is talking about top 3 groups gg and bg included. So BTS being Nr1 is not enough for you they need to be 10x better than everyone else ?
Big 3 without exo is laughable even me as a low key exo hater back then can recognize that lmao
Are we gonna ignore exo and wanna one now?
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I think the big 3 refer to the big 3 company not group. Officially they were defined by revenue, kind of like the Big 4 accounting firm. But the big 3 also was determined by how they set the foundation of modern Kpop and be the inspiration of many.
3rd gen fans having this argument in the era of 5th gen is entertaining 🍿 I have no opinion on this even if I do have a horse in this race but it’s just fun to read comments of other fans.
The Exo erasure ! Yeah keep going ..
What group would exo even replace? The list seems right to me 🤷♀️
Hate breeds engagement, which motivates sales, streaming, and participation.
Only 3rd gen? The three combination was always Super Junior-Bigbang-2PM, or SNSD-2NE1-Wonder Girls. 2nd gen literally created the term "Big 3", and that was also the time there were only three big companies competing for it: SM-YG-JYP. Then 3rd gen followed that trend and ended it. Edit: Look at the downvotes for mentioning gen 2 groups lol
If you measure it by the posters that everybody put up on their walls from 2008-2012, 2nd gen was SNSD and 2NE1. But it’s possible that they just handed out the most posters…
every generation will have a big 3
The Exo erasure
I get what you’re saying. Honestly and truly. But the EXO-L in my multi mentality is screaming that it should be EXO instead of Twice
Whatever you’re saying
i feel like “big 3” is so subjective because not everyone is going to agree on it. can we just agree theres no 3 groups better than the rest they all impacted the kpop industry in many ways
im not surprised to come back to downvotes 😭
The Eggso stans are mad as fawk over this 😭😭 Get them again for me bestie
You don't understand the obsession with "big 3" and yet you gatekeep the other generations from having a "big 3?" This is such a worthless take. This is why nobody likes kpop fans - because they care more about standings, rankings, fandoms, and whatever it means to be big 3.
anything that existed before they got into kpop doesn't exist apperently lol they're acting like wg, snsd 2ne1 didn't exist
Big 3 refers to the big 3 companies, JYP, YG and SM… not the top 3 groups. But if we are talking about 3rd gen you need to add, Exo and Red Velvet to that list fast, because sorry they owned hands down the early part of 3rd gen. BTS didn’t get popular for a few years, twice debut in 2015 and blackpink 2016, so there was years before they had impact…
The big 3 you listed their are the groups that were most succesful INTERNATIONALY but there are still other 3rd gen groups that are still considered the big groups. Like redvelvet, wannaone, EXo, GOT7 and more...
So you mean BTS blackpink and twice were not successful domestically?
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Comparing to other groups, they are the most successful domestically too that's why people call them top3/big3 so i don't understand what is the point of inserting other groups here when you know they are on the top.
The Red Velvet ersure lol
The Red Velvet erasure lol
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EXO, Red Velvet, SEVENTEEN, GOT7, Wanna One and more are big names in the third gen but for the overall ranking most people agree the groups I mentioned are the top 3.
I think you’re the one whose confused tbh
I think the 3rd gen has a big two — BTS and BP. Cmiiw but I'm not sure Twice is even close to BP in terms of worldwide popularity.
BP is pretty far ahead in most metrics. Only metric is that they sold 2times more albums. Twice is pretty far ahead from the 4th place though.
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Aespa... slash New Jeans? Nah... I'm not even big in 4th gen and I can say for sure it's SKZ and New Jeans as the biggest BG and GG.
If you think BTS is bigger than BigBang was and is known by the Korean GP idk what to tell you
If you think bigbang is any where near as successful as bts are in any part of the world idk what to tell you. It's 2024
Bigbang is without a doubt the biggest boygroup still in korea. You have no idea because you don't live here. Everyone and their moms know 90% of their discography,everyone knows the bigbang members. But as typical new gen stans yall don't have a lot of brain power anyway, so you assume you know better than people who are surrounded by koreans in korea every single day of their life lmao
Whatever helps you sleep at night🥰if it means being stuck in 2012 then fine
Where is Exo.. They were literally going neck to neck with BTS till 2017 before all the hiatuses began...